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White House Czar Calls for End to 'War on Drugs' (1 Viewer)

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White House Czar Calls for End to 'War on Drugs'

Kerlikowske Says Analogy Is Counterproductive; Shift Aligns With Administration Preference for Treatment Over Incarceration

By GARY FIELDS

WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration's new drug czar says he wants to banish the idea that the U.S. is fighting "a war on drugs," a move that would underscore a shift favoring treatment over incarceration in trying to reduce illicit drug use.

In his first interview since being confirmed to head the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, Gil Kerlikowske said Wednesday the bellicose analogy was a barrier to dealing with the nation's drug issues.

"Regardless of how you try to explain to people it's a 'war on drugs' or a 'war on a product,' people see a war as a war on them," he said. "We're not at war with people in this country."

Mr. Kerlikowske's comments are a signal that the Obama administration is set to follow a more moderate -- and likely more controversial -- stance on the nation's drug problems. Prior administrations talked about pushing treatment and reducing demand while continuing to focus primarily on a tough criminal-justice approach.

The Obama administration is likely to deal with drugs as a matter of public health rather than criminal justice alone, with treatment's role growing relative to incarceration, Mr. Kerlikowske said.

Already, the administration has called for an end to the disparity in how crimes involving crack cocaine and powder cocaine are dealt with. Critics of the law say it unfairly targeted African-American communities, where crack is more prevalent.

The administration also said federal authorities would no longer raid medical-marijuana dispensaries in the 13 states where voters have made medical marijuana legal. Agents had previously done so under federal law, which doesn't provide for any exceptions to its marijuana prohibition.

During the presidential campaign, President Barack Obama also talked about ending the federal ban on funding for needle-exchange programs, which are used to stem the spread of HIV among intravenous-drug users.

The drug czar doesn't have the power to enforce any of these changes himself, but Mr. Kerlikowske plans to work with Congress and other agencies to alter current policies. He said he hasn't yet focused on U.S. policy toward fighting drug-related crime in other countries.

Mr. Kerlikowske was most recently the police chief in Seattle, a city known for experimenting with drug programs. In 2003, voters there passed an initiative making the enforcement of simple marijuana violations a low priority. The city has long had a needle-exchange program and hosts Hempfest, which draws tens of thousands of hemp and marijuana advocates.

Seattle currently is considering setting up a project that would divert drug defendants to treatment programs.

Mr. Kerlikowske said he opposed the city's 2003 initiative on police priorities. His officers, however, say drug enforcement -- especially for pot crimes -- took a back seat, according to Sgt. Richard O'Neill, president of the Seattle Police Officers Guild. One result was an open-air drug market in the downtown business district, Mr. O'Neill said.

"The average rank-and-file officer is saying, 'He can't control two blocks of Seattle, how is he going to control the nation?' " Mr. O'Neill said.

Sen. Tom Coburn, the lone senator to vote against Mr. Kerlikowske, was concerned about the permissive attitude toward marijuana enforcement, a spokesman for the conservative Oklahoma Republican said.

Others said they are pleased by the way Seattle police balanced the available options. "I think he believes there is a place for using the criminal sanctions to address the drug-abuse problem, but he's more open to giving a hard look to solutions that look at the demand side of the equation," said Alison Holcomb, drug-policy director with the Washington state American Civil Liberties Union.

Mr. Kerlikowske said the issue was one of limited police resources, adding that he doesn't support efforts to legalize drugs. He also said he supports needle-exchange programs, calling them "part of a complete public-health model for dealing with addiction."

Mr. Kerlikowske's career began in St. Petersburg, Fla. He recalled one incident as a Florida undercover officer during the 1970s that spurred his thinking that arrests alone wouldn't fix matters.

"While we were sitting there, the guy we're buying from is smoking pot and his toddler comes over and he blows smoke in the toddler's face," Mr. Kerlikowske said. "You go home at night, and you think of your own kids and your own family and you realize" the depth of the problem.

Since then, he has run four police departments, as well as the Justice Department's Office of Community Policing during the Clinton administration.

Ethan Nadelmann of the Drug Policy Alliance, a group that supports legalization of medical marijuana, said he is "cautiously optimistic" about Mr. Kerlikowske. "The analogy we have is this is like turning around an ocean liner," he said. "What's important is the damn thing is beginning to turn."

James Pasco, executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police, the nation's largest law-enforcement labor organization, said that while he holds Mr. Kerlikowske in high regard, police officers are wary.

"While I don't necessarily disagree with Gil's focus on treatment and demand reduction, I don't want to see it at the expense of law enforcement. People need to understand that when they violate the law there are consequences."

Write to Gary Fields at gary.fields@wsj.com
AP IMPACT: US drug war has met none of its goals

By MARTHA MENDOZA, Associated Press Writer

Thu May 13, 5:15 pm ET

MEXICO CITY – After 40 years, the United States' war on drugs has cost $1 trillion and hundreds of thousands of lives, and for what? Drug use is rampant and violence even more brutal and widespread.

Even U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske concedes the strategy hasn't worked.

"In the grand scheme, it has not been successful," Kerlikowske told The Associated Press. "Forty years later, the concern about drugs and drug problems is, if anything, magnified, intensified."

This week President Obama promised to "reduce drug use and the great damage it causes" with a new national policy that he said treats drug use more as a public health issue and focuses on prevention and treatment.

Nevertheless, his administration has increased spending on interdiction and law enforcement to record levels both in dollars and in percentage terms; this year, they account for $10 billion of his $15.5 billion drug-control budget.

Kerlikowske, who coordinates all federal anti-drug policies, says it will take time for the spending to match the rhetoric.

"Nothing happens overnight," he said. "We've never worked the drug problem holistically. We'll arrest the drug dealer, but we leave the addiction."

His predecessor, John P. Walters, takes issue with that.

Walters insists society would be far worse today if there had been no War on Drugs. Drug abuse peaked nationally in 1979 and, despite fluctuations, remains below those levels, he says. Judging the drug war is complicated: Records indicate marijuana and prescription drug abuse are climbing, while cocaine use is way down. Seizures are up, but so is availability.

"To say that all the things that have been done in the war on drugs haven't made any difference is ridiculous," Walters said. "It destroys everything we've done. It's saying all the people involved in law enforcment, treatment and prevention have been wasting their time. It's saying all these people's work is misguided."

___

In 1970, hippies were smoking pot and dropping acid. Soldiers were coming home from Vietnam hooked on heroin. Embattled President Richard M. Nixon seized on a new war he thought he could win.

"This nation faces a major crisis in terms of the increasing use of drugs, particularly among our young people," Nixon said as he signed the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act. The following year, he said: "Public enemy No. 1 in the United States is drug abuse. In order to fight and defeat this enemy, it is necessary to wage a new, all-out offensive."

His first drug-fighting budget was $100 million. Now it's $15.1 billion, 31 times Nixon's amount even when adjusted for inflation.

Using Freedom of Information Act requests, archival records, federal budgets and dozens of interviews with leaders and analysts, the AP tracked where that money went, and found that the United States repeatedly increased budgets for programs that did little to stop the flow of drugs. In 40 years, taxpayers spent more than:

• $20 billion to fight the drug gangs in their home countries. In Colombia, for example, the United States spent more than $6 billion, while coca cultivation increased and trafficking moved to Mexico — and the violence along with it.

• $33 billion in marketing "Just Say No"-style messages to America's youth and other prevention programs. High school students report the same rates of illegal drug use as they did in 1970, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says drug overdoses have "risen steadily" since the early 1970s to more than 20,000 last year.

• $49 billion for law enforcement along America's borders to cut off the flow of illegal drugs. This year, 25 million Americans will snort, swallow, inject and smoke illicit drugs, about 10 million more than in 1970, with the bulk of those drugs imported from Mexico.

• $121 billion to arrest more than 37 million nonviolent drug offenders, about 10 million of them for possession of marijuana. Studies show that jail time tends to increase drug abuse.

$450 billion to lock those people up in federal prisons alone. Last year, half of all federal prisoners in the U.S. were serving sentences for drug offenses.

At the same time, drug abuse is costing the nation in other ways. The Justice Department estimates the consequences of drug abuse — "an overburdened justice system, a strained health care system, lost productivity, and environmental destruction" — cost the United States $215 billion a year.

Harvard University economist Jeffrey Miron says the only sure thing taxpayers get for more spending on police and soldiers is more homicides.

"Current policy is not having an effect of reducing drug use," Miron said, "but it's costing the public a fortune."

___

From the beginning, lawmakers debated fiercely whether law enforcement — no matter how well funded and well trained — could ever defeat the drug problem.

Then-Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who had his doubts, has since watched his worst fears come to pass.

"Look what happened. It's an ongoing tragedy that has cost us a trillion dollars. It has loaded our jails and it has destabilized countries like Mexico and Colombia," he said.

In 1970, proponents said beefed-up law enforcement could effectively seal the southern U.S. border and stop drugs from coming in. Since then, the U.S. used patrols, checkpoints, sniffer dogs, cameras, motion detectors, heat sensors, drone aircraft — and even put up more than 1,000 miles of steel beam, concrete walls and heavy mesh stretching from California to Texas.

None of that has stopped the drugs. The Office of National Drug Control Policy says about 330 tons of cocaine, 20 tons of heroin and 110 tons of methamphetamine are sold in the United States every year — almost all of it brought in across the borders. Even more marijuana is sold, but it's hard to know how much of that is grown domestically, including vast fields run by Mexican drug cartels in U.S. national parks.

The dealers who are caught have overwhelmed justice systems in the United States and elsewhere. U.S. prosecutors declined to file charges in 7,482 drug cases last year, most because they simply didn't have the time. That's about one out of every four drug cases.

The United States has in recent years rounded up thousands of suspected associates of Mexican drug gangs, then turned some of the cases over to local prosecutors who can't make the charges stick for lack of evidence. The suspects are then sometimes released, deported or acquitted. The U.S. Justice Department doesn't even keep track of what happens to all of them.

In Mexico, traffickers exploit a broken justice system. Investigators often fail to collect convincing evidence — and are sometimes assassinated when they do. Confessions are beaten out of suspects by frustrated, underpaid police. Judges who no longer turn a blind eye to such abuse release the suspects in exasperation.

In prison, in the U.S. or Mexico, traffickers continue to operate, ordering assassinations and arranging distribution of their product even from solitary confinement in Texas and California. In Mexico, prisoners can sometimes even buy their way out.

The violence spans Mexico. In Ciudad Juarez, the epicenter of drug violence in Mexico, 2,600 people were killed last year in cartel-related violence, making the city of 1 million across the Rio Grande from El Paso, Texas, one of the world's deadliest. Not a single person was prosecuted for homicide related to organized crime.

And then there's the money.

The $320 billion annual global drug industry now accounts for 1 percent of all commerce on the planet.

A full 10 percent of Mexico's economy is built on drug proceeds — $25 billion smuggled in from the United States every year, of which 25 cents of each $100 smuggled is seized at the border. Thus there's no incentive for the kind of financial reform that could tame the cartels.

"For every drug dealer you put in jail or kill, there's a line up to replace him because the money is just so good," says Walter McCay, who heads the nonprofit Center for Professional Police Certification in Mexico City.

McCay is one of the 13,000 members of Medford, Mass.-based Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, a group of cops, judges, prosecutors, prison wardens and others who want to legalize and regulate all drugs.

A decade ago, no politician who wanted to keep his job would breathe a word about legalization, but a consensus is growing across the country that at least marijuana will someday be regulated and sold like tobacco and alcohol.

California voters decide in November whether to legalize marijuana, and South Dakota will vote this fall on whether to allow medical uses of marijuana, already permitted in California and 13 other states. The Obama administration says it won't target marijuana dispensaries if they comply with state laws.

___

Mexican President Felipe Calderon says if America wants to fix the drug problem, it needs to do something about Americans' unquenching thirst for illegal drugs.

Kerlikowske agrees, and Obama has committed to doing just that.

And yet both countries continue to spend the bulk of their drug budgets on law enforcement rather than treatment and prevention.

"President Obama's newly released drug war budget is essentially the same as Bush's, with roughly twice as much money going to the criminal justice system as to treatment and prevention," said Bill Piper, director of national affairs for the nonprofit Drug Policy Alliance. "This despite Obama's statements on the campaign trail that drug use should be treated as a health issue, not a criminal justice issue."

Obama is requesting a record $15.5 billion for the drug war for 2011, about two thirds of it for law enforcement at the front lines of the battle: police, military and border patrol agents struggling to seize drugs and arrest traffickers and users.

About $5.6 billion would be spent on prevention and treatment.

"For the first time ever, the nation has before it an administration that views the drug issue first and foremost through the lens of the public health mandate," said economist and drug policy expert John Carnevale, who served three administrations and four drug czars. "Yet ... it appears that this historic policy stride has some problems with its supporting budget."

Carnevale said the administration continues to substantially over-allocate funds to areas that research shows are least effective — interdiction and source-country programs — while under-allocating funds for treatment and prevention.

Kerlikowske, who wishes people would stop calling it a "war" on drugs, frequently talks about one of the most valuable tools they've found, in which doctors screen for drug abuse during routine medical examinations. That program would get a mere $7.2 million under Obama's budget.

"People will say that's not enough. They'll say the drug budget hasn't shifted as much as it should have, and granted I don't disagree with that," Kerlikowske said. "We would like to do more in that direction."

Fifteen years ago, when the government began telling doctors to ask their patients about their drug use during routine medical exams, it described the program as one of the most proven ways to intervene early with would-be addicts.

"Nothing happens overnight," Kerlikowske said.

___

Until 100 years ago, drugs were simply a commodity. Then Western cultural shifts made them immoral and deviant, according to London School of Economics professor Fernanda Mena.

Religious movements led the crusades against drugs: In 1904, an Episcopal bishop returning from a mission in the Far East argued for banning opium after observing "the natives' moral degeneration." In 1914, The New York Times reported that cocaine caused blacks to commit "violent crimes," and that it made them resistant to police bullets. In the decades that followed, Mena said, drugs became synonymous with evil.

Nixon drew on those emotions when he pressed for his War on Drugs.

"Narcotics addiction is a problem which afflicts both the body and the soul of America," he said in a special 1971 message to Congress. "It comes quietly into homes and destroys children, it moves into neighborhoods and breaks the fiber of community which makes neighbors. We must try to better understand the confusion and disillusion and despair that bring people, particularly young people, to the use of narcotics and dangerous drugs."

Just a few years later, a young Barack Obama was one of those young users, a teenager smoking pot and trying "a little blow when you could afford it," as he wrote in "Dreams From My Father." When asked during his campaign if he had inhaled the pot, he replied: "That was the point."

So why persist with costly programs that don't work?

Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, sitting down with the AP at the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City, paused for a moment at the question.

"Look," she says, starting slowly. "This is something that is worth fighting for because drug addiction is about fighting for somebody's life, a young child's life, a teenager's life, their ability to be a successful and productive adult.

"If you think about it in those terms, that they are fighting for lives — and in Mexico they are literally fighting for lives as well from the violence standpoint — you realize the stakes are too high to let go."
 
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:excited:comment from CBS page

by CZ452 May 14, 2010 7:57 AM EDT"To say that all the things that have been done in the war on drugs haven't made any difference is ridiculous," Walters said. "It destroys everything we've done. It's saying all the people involved in law enforcment, treatment and prevention have been wasting their time. It's saying all these people's work is misguided." No putz to say that is has any measurable success is ridiculous. What you have done has destroyed more poeple than the drugs ever would have all on their own. Sorry to tell you but the people in law enforcement are definetly wasting their time and our money locking people up for a victimless crime. Oh and just because you create victims for your propaganda doesn't make them real. ANYONE who thinks they have moral superiority over others for what they do in their own homes is MISGUIDED. I think the fact you can not keep drugs out of JAILS says it all. It says we can't stop people locked up and guarded by COPS from getting drugs BUT we want the public to believe we can actually stop them in every home in America. THAT is RIDICULOUS!
 
Stuff like this is cool and all, but it's ultimately meaningless unless the laws are changed.
Ethan Nadelmann of the Drug Policy Alliance, a group that supports legalization of medical marijuana, said he is "cautiously optimistic" about Mr. Kerlikowske. "The analogy we have is this is like turning around an ocean liner," he said. "What's important is the damn thing is beginning to turn."The times they are a changin...
 
I like this as a great first step.

But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.

 
I like this as a great first step. But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.
The religjous right gets way more credit than they deserve, for the most part, they don't matter.On the other hand, the prison-industrial complex, and the lobbyists who represent the prisons? They will not like this, and will do everything in their power(under a different name, of course) to fight this.
 
So basically what this means is that we now have an intelligent, rational adult as our drug czar....as opposed to either a reactionary nimrod or somehow in bed with the prison lobby.

Our "war on drugs" has been a misguided waste of taxpayer dollars for at least 25 years now, ever since Reagan decided to create disproportionate penalties for crack vs cocaine. It's pretty clear what the goal has been.....and it's had little to do with reducing US demand for drugs.

 
I like this as a great first step.

But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.
The religjous right gets way more credit than they deserve, for the most part, they don't matter.

On the other hand, the prison-industrial complex, and the lobbyists who represent the prisons? They will not like this, and will do everything in their power(under a different name, of course) to fight this.
Arguable. But you can replace RR with social conservative if you want. You're dead on about the lobbyists and prison building and staffing companies.
 
I like this as a great first step.

But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.
The religjous right gets way more credit than they deserve, for the most part, they don't matter.

On the other hand, the prison-industrial complex, and the lobbyists who represent the prisons? They will not like this, and will do everything in their power(under a different name, of course) to fight this.
Arguable. But you can replace RR with social conservative if you want. You're dead on about the lobbyists and prison building and staffing companies.
Yeah, "don't matter" is a stretch...agree with you.
 
With all the font size changing, bold, bigger bolds, and the like in Hipple's post, a lifetime of drug use has made all that pretty much unreadable to me. Cliffs notes?

 
Stuff like this is cool and all, but it's ultimately meaningless unless the laws are changed.
It's not meaningless to the dispensary owners, caregivers and patients. Every step towards changing the laws is a good step.I expect to see the Conservative pundits (Rush, Beck, Jim11 nd other FBG Righties) applauding Obama's staff for this step towards reducing federal interference in citizen's personal lives as well as the federal government respecting the rights of states to govern themselves.
 
I like this as a great first step. But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.
Not sure about the religious right but the tea partiers should support this unconditionally as it shrinks the federal government's intrusion into what states have voted for. It will be massive hypocrisy for them to come out against this move.
 
I like this as a great first step. But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.
Not sure about the religious right but the tea partiers should support this unconditionally as it shrinks the federal government's intrusion into what states have voted for. It will be massive hypocrisy for them to come out against this move.
I'm sure the fear of hypocrisy and desire for internal consistency will ensure the Tea Party support this.
 
I like this as a great first step. But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.
Not sure about the religious right but the tea partiers should support this unconditionally as it shrinks the federal government's intrusion into what states have voted for. It will be massive hypocrisy for them to come out against this move.
I'm sure the fear of hypocrisy and desire for internal consistency will ensure the Tea Party support this.
It will be interesting to see how many of their arguments for the AZ bills could be used nearly verbatim to support this move, while they're slamming Obama for it...
 
I like this as a great first step.

But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.
Sounds like you don't know what this group is actually about......
 
20+ years in the making

Mayor Schmoke became controversial almost immediately. Only four months after he was elected he stunned the audience at the National Conference of Mayors by suggesting that at least some drug use should be made legal. Schmoke told the Washington Post: "I started to think, maybe we ought to consider this drug problem a public health problem rather than a criminal justice problem."

 
With all the font size changing, bold, bigger bolds, and the like in Hipple's post, a lifetime of drug use has made all that pretty much unreadable to me. Cliffs notes?
The drug czar doesn't have the power to enforce any of these changes himself, but Mr. Kerlikowske plans to work with Congress and other agencies to alter current policies. He said he hasn't yet focused on U.S. policy toward fighting drug-related crime in other countries.
 
I like this as a great first step.

But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.
Sounds like you don't know what this group is actually about......
Well there is a lot of misinformation and rank 'n file Republican infiltration, so yes I could be wrong. I thought one of their, if not THE, main platform pieces was against an overstepping federal government and a move for states' rights without fed interference.
 
So basically what this means is that we now have an intelligent, rational adult as our drug czar....as opposed to either a reactionary nimrod or somehow in bed with the prison lobby.Our "war on drugs" has been a misguided waste of taxpayer dollars for at least 25 years now, ever since Reagan decided to create disproportionate penalties for crack vs cocaine. It's pretty clear what the goal has been.....and it's had little to do with reducing US demand for drugs.
:goodposting: Guy just wanted to keep the blacks in jail and off the streets.
 
20+ years in the making

Mayor Schmoke became controversial almost immediately. Only four months after he was elected he stunned the audience at the National Conference of Mayors by suggesting that at least some drug use should be made legal. Schmoke told the Washington Post: "I started to think, maybe we ought to consider this drug problem a public health problem rather than a criminal justice problem."
A rising star in Maryland politics at the time, he committed political suicide with that remark. And that was a shame on many levels.
 
I am for most legalization, especially pot :goodposting: , but I hate when the politicians do this kind of thing.

It is one thing for the population to practice civil disobedience and to protest laws and hold marches etc, but I don't expect our law enforcement people...including the feds....to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore as a blanket policy. I know prosecutors and LEOs have to have some leeway and aren't going to stop every jaywalker or speeder, but the chief of police doesn't need to be coming out saying what laws passed by the legislature he is going to choose to enforce and which he isn't as a matter of department policy, that is not his role in government. Same kind of crap the feds do about immigration...enforce the damn laws or change them, don't just ignore them. :goodposting:

 
So basically what this means is that we now have an intelligent, rational adult as our drug czar....as opposed to either a reactionary nimrod or somehow in bed with the prison lobby.

Our "war on drugs" has been a misguided waste of taxpayer dollars for at least 25 years now, ever since Reagan decided to create disproportionate penalties for crack vs cocaine. It's pretty clear what the goal has been.....and it's had little to do with reducing US demand for drugs.
Recently made less disproportionate.
 
I am for most legalization, especially pot :goodposting: , but I hate when the politicians do this kind of thing. It is one thing for the population to practice civil disobedience and to protest laws and hold marches etc, but I don't expect our law enforcement people...including the feds....to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore as a blanket policy. I know prosecutors and LEOs have to have some leeway and aren't going to stop every jaywalker or speeder, but the chief of police doesn't need to be coming out saying what laws passed by the legislature he is going to choose to enforce and which he isn't as a matter of department policy, that is not his role in government. Same kind of crap the feds do about immigration...enforce the damn laws or change them, don't just ignore them. :goodposting:
In theory, I agree with you. But the "War on Drugs" is 30 years old, and the government doesn't generally turn on a dime when it comes to policies that have been around that long. It would be nice if Obama came out and said "You know, federal drug laws are kind of stupid and counter-productive, so we need to work with Congress to overhaul the whole system in part to harmonize it with recent changes in state laws," but he probably doesn't have the political capital to pull that off, and it would come at the expense of some of his other domestic priorities. At least this is a move in the right direction. Besides, its only a matter of time before some state decriminalizes pot altogether, which will force the issue at the federal level.
 
I am for most legalization, especially pot :mellow: , but I hate when the politicians do this kind of thing. It is one thing for the population to practice civil disobedience and to protest laws and hold marches etc, but I don't expect our law enforcement people...including the feds....to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore as a blanket policy. I know prosecutors and LEOs have to have some leeway and aren't going to stop every jaywalker or speeder, but the chief of police doesn't need to be coming out saying what laws passed by the legislature he is going to choose to enforce and which he isn't as a matter of department policy, that is not his role in government. Same kind of crap the feds do about immigration...enforce the damn laws or change them, don't just ignore them. :rant:
So you ignored post 25?
 
I am for most legalization, especially pot :mellow: , but I hate when the politicians do this kind of thing. It is one thing for the population to practice civil disobedience and to protest laws and hold marches etc, but I don't expect our law enforcement people...including the feds....to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore as a blanket policy. I know prosecutors and LEOs have to have some leeway and aren't going to stop every jaywalker or speeder, but the chief of police doesn't need to be coming out saying what laws passed by the legislature he is going to choose to enforce and which he isn't as a matter of department policy, that is not his role in government. Same kind of crap the feds do about immigration...enforce the damn laws or change them, don't just ignore them. :rant:
In theory, I agree with you. But the "War on Drugs" is 30 years old, and the government doesn't generally turn on a dime when it comes to policies that have been around that long. It would be nice if Obama came out and said "You know, federal drug laws are kind of stupid and counter-productive, so we need to work with Congress to overhaul the whole system in part to harmonize it with recent changes in state laws," but he probably doesn't have the political capital to pull that off, and it would come at the expense of some of his other domestic priorities. At least this is a move in the right direction. Besides, its only a matter of time before some state decriminalizes pot altogether, which will force the issue at the federal level.
All good points. There's also the fact that criminal law, and narcotics violations in particular, are mostly a state law matter. The feds really almost never enforce small-scale drug crimes that take place entirely within the confines of a single state. As a practical matter, they simply can't. When they do so, it's mostly because they were doing what Bogeys is railing against here- they're making a stupid political point by saying "hey, just because you legalized medicinal marjiuana doens't mean it's legal with us!" The Obama administration is saying that they're doing making that stupid political point, and they'll let the states decide for themselves how to deal with the issue of medicinal marijuana.
 
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I like this as a great first step. But the Religious Right and tea partiers will probably not let this happen. The next Republican presidential candidate will probably call for a double down on the War on Drugs as he sures up family values voters in middle America.
Not sure about the religious right but the tea partiers should support this unconditionally as it shrinks the federal government's intrusion into what states have voted for. It will be massive hypocrisy for them to come out against this move.
:mellow:
 
I am for most legalization, especially pot :confused: , but I hate when the politicians do this kind of thing.

It is one thing for the population to practice civil disobedience and to protest laws and hold marches etc, but I don't expect our law enforcement people...including the feds....to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore as a blanket policy. I know prosecutors and LEOs have to have some leeway and aren't going to stop every jaywalker or speeder, but the chief of police doesn't need to be coming out saying what laws passed by the legislature he is going to choose to enforce and which he isn't as a matter of department policy, that is not his role in government. Same kind of crap the feds do about immigration...enforce the damn laws or change them, don't just ignore them. :lmao:
In theory, I agree with you. But the "War on Drugs" is 30 years old, and the government doesn't generally turn on a dime when it comes to policies that have been around that long. It would be nice if Obama came out and said "You know, federal drug laws are kind of stupid and counter-productive, so we need to work with Congress to overhaul the whole system in part to harmonize it with recent changes in state laws," but he probably doesn't have the political capital to pull that off, and it would come at the expense of some of his other domestic priorities. At least this is a move in the right direction. Besides, its only a matter of time before some state decriminalizes pot altogether, which will force the issue at the federal level.
All good points. There's also the fact that criminal law, and narcotics violations in particular, are mostly a state law matter. The feds really almost never enforce small-scale drug crimes that take place entirely within the confines of a single state. As a practical matter, they simply can't. When they do so, it's mostly because they were doing what Bogeys is railing against here- they're making a stupid political point by saying "hey, just because you legalized medicinal marjiuana doens't mean it's legal with us!" The Obama administration is saying that they're doing making that stupid political point, and they'll let the states decide for themselves how to deal with the issue of medicinal marijuana.
And I actually agree that is how it should be, but instead of standing up and saying the law needs to be changed he is just ignoring it by not enforcing it. That is the part I have the problem with on this point. Just because I agree with him in this instance, doesn't mean I will agree with him or the next President about what law they don't want to enforce. That is why I don't understand the people that applaud (or to give another example in the news, immigration law) when the people that are supposed to uphold duly enacted laws just ignore them. Say the next President doesn't like the EPA, would people be cool with his EPA head ignoring environmental laws if the President doesn't agree with them?

 
I am for most legalization, especially pot :lmao: , but I hate when the politicians do this kind of thing.

It is one thing for the population to practice civil disobedience and to protest laws and hold marches etc, but I don't expect our law enforcement people...including the feds....to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore as a blanket policy. I know prosecutors and LEOs have to have some leeway and aren't going to stop every jaywalker or speeder, but the chief of police doesn't need to be coming out saying what laws passed by the legislature he is going to choose to enforce and which he isn't as a matter of department policy, that is not his role in government. Same kind of crap the feds do about immigration...enforce the damn laws or change them, don't just ignore them. :lmao:
In theory, I agree with you. But the "War on Drugs" is 30 years old, and the government doesn't generally turn on a dime when it comes to policies that have been around that long. It would be nice if Obama came out and said "You know, federal drug laws are kind of stupid and counter-productive, so we need to work with Congress to overhaul the whole system in part to harmonize it with recent changes in state laws," but he probably doesn't have the political capital to pull that off, and it would come at the expense of some of his other domestic priorities. At least this is a move in the right direction. Besides, its only a matter of time before some state decriminalizes pot altogether, which will force the issue at the federal level.
All good points. There's also the fact that criminal law, and narcotics violations in particular, are mostly a state law matter. The feds really almost never enforce small-scale drug crimes that take place entirely within the confines of a single state. As a practical matter, they simply can't. When they do so, it's mostly because they were doing what Bogeys is railing against here- they're making a stupid political point by saying "hey, just because you legalized medicinal marjiuana doens't mean it's legal with us!" The Obama administration is saying that they're doing making that stupid political point, and they'll let the states decide for themselves how to deal with the issue of medicinal marijuana.
And I actually agree that is how it should be, but instead of standing up and saying the law needs to be changed he is just ignoring it by not enforcing it. That is the part I have the problem with on this point. Just because I agree with him in this instance, doesn't mean I will agree with him or the next President about what law they don't want to enforce. That is why I don't understand the people that applaud (or to give another example in the news, immigration law) when the people that are supposed to uphold duly enacted laws just ignore them. Say the next President doesn't like the EPA, would people be cool with his EPA head ignoring environmental laws if the President doesn't agree with them?
:confused:
 
I am for most legalization, especially pot :lmao: , but I hate when the politicians do this kind of thing.

It is one thing for the population to practice civil disobedience and to protest laws and hold marches etc, but I don't expect our law enforcement people...including the feds....to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore as a blanket policy. I know prosecutors and LEOs have to have some leeway and aren't going to stop every jaywalker or speeder, but the chief of police doesn't need to be coming out saying what laws passed by the legislature he is going to choose to enforce and which he isn't as a matter of department policy, that is not his role in government. Same kind of crap the feds do about immigration...enforce the damn laws or change them, don't just ignore them. :lmao:
In theory, I agree with you. But the "War on Drugs" is 30 years old, and the government doesn't generally turn on a dime when it comes to policies that have been around that long. It would be nice if Obama came out and said "You know, federal drug laws are kind of stupid and counter-productive, so we need to work with Congress to overhaul the whole system in part to harmonize it with recent changes in state laws," but he probably doesn't have the political capital to pull that off, and it would come at the expense of some of his other domestic priorities. At least this is a move in the right direction. Besides, its only a matter of time before some state decriminalizes pot altogether, which will force the issue at the federal level.
All good points. There's also the fact that criminal law, and narcotics violations in particular, are mostly a state law matter. The feds really almost never enforce small-scale drug crimes that take place entirely within the confines of a single state. As a practical matter, they simply can't. When they do so, it's mostly because they were doing what Bogeys is railing against here- they're making a stupid political point by saying "hey, just because you legalized medicinal marjiuana doens't mean it's legal with us!" The Obama administration is saying that they're doing making that stupid political point, and they'll let the states decide for themselves how to deal with the issue of medicinal marijuana.
And I actually agree that is how it should be, but instead of standing up and saying the law needs to be changed he is just ignoring it by not enforcing it. That is the part I have the problem with on this point. Just because I agree with him in this instance, doesn't mean I will agree with him or the next President about what law they don't want to enforce. That is why I don't understand the people that applaud (or to give another example in the news, immigration law) when the people that are supposed to uphold duly enacted laws just ignore them. Say the next President doesn't like the EPA, would people be cool with his EPA head ignoring environmental laws if the President doesn't agree with them?
Well, this and other things like this happen all the time through allocation of resources. For example, before Bush left office he proposed exactly what you say in the bolded, proposing reduced enforcement of environmental laws by slashing spending for those programs. This is a necessity when you have limited resources. The Obama administration is just being a little more upfront about it in this instance. And the answer to what you do if you don't agree with them is that you vote them out of office for doing a poor job of "executing" the law, which after all is the job description of the chief executive.

I agree that it would be great if they'd just repeal the law, but that's not up to them. I suppose they could ask for a repeal, and I wish they would just like you. But remember, that's just a political act too- using the bully pulpit- and not really their job. The president doesn't make the law, he just signs and then enforces it.

 
This is all BS as is Obama's stance that he won't stand in the way of states that want to change marijuana laws.

Though the Obama administration has pledged to respect state laws, it is quietly going in the opposite direction by cutting off water to the growers....

That is why this latest move is so dangerous. The government already coerces states by withholding money unless they follow federal mandates. If the feds can now withhold water or electricity, too, that stranglehold will tighten.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/07/07/marijuana-medical-water-growers-pot-water-weed-column/12317313/

 

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