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White Sox 2011 Baseball (1 Viewer)

Am I off base in thinking that once some of these guys get the fat contract they suck? Also- can we just go on a youth movement now? Not a white flag but time to get some of the younger guys a shot- AR, Fields, Owens and Hall?

 
Weaver comes out for the top of the 7th with 102 pitches thrown

Each of Dye (1-0), Konerko (0-0) and AJ (1-0) swing at the first strike thrown to them (Count when swinging)

Results in an 8 pitch inning, 3 up 3 down.

No one's done **** against this guy all night and they think they're suddenly going to start getting hits off of him without working the count?

 
Limp Ditka said:
Weaver comes out for the top of the 7th with 102 pitches thrownEach of Dye (1-0), Konerko (0-0) and AJ (1-0) swing at the first strike thrown to them (Count when swinging)Results in an 8 pitch inning, 3 up 3 down.No one's done **** against this guy all night and they think they're suddenly going to start getting hits off of him without working the count?
Click to expand...
this team is done, unless they make some wholesale changes before June 1st. The offense is slow and it sucks period.
 
urbanhack said:
Limp Ditka said:
Weaver comes out for the top of the 7th with 102 pitches thrownEach of Dye (1-0), Konerko (0-0) and AJ (1-0) swing at the first strike thrown to them (Count when swinging)Results in an 8 pitch inning, 3 up 3 down.No one's done **** against this guy all night and they think they're suddenly going to start getting hits off of him without working the count?
Click to expand...
this team is done, unless they make some wholesale changes before June 1st. The offense is slow and it sucks period.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I want Ryan Freel on this team and now.He's the best fit for what they need.Keppinger just broke a knee cap and will be out for god knows how long. Literally give them Juan Uribe, eat the salary, and a decent prospect. That would fill their gaping hole at leadoff as well as 2B.
 
urbanhack said:
Limp Ditka said:
Weaver comes out for the top of the 7th with 102 pitches thrownEach of Dye (1-0), Konerko (0-0) and AJ (1-0) swing at the first strike thrown to them (Count when swinging)Results in an 8 pitch inning, 3 up 3 down.No one's done **** against this guy all night and they think they're suddenly going to start getting hits off of him without working the count?
Click to expand...
this team is done, unless they make some wholesale changes before June 1st. The offense is slow and it sucks period.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. Another thing is AJ cannot throw anyone out these days.The excuses for sucking are getting old. Paulie has a sore thumb and the vets are professional hitters that need some time. Well it has been 3 weeks and they still suck. I see a sweep coming up and Cleveland is making a move. All we are doing is watching the paint dry while the over the hill gang tries to hit. And when we finally hit- the pitching falters!Message to big Jim- time to hang them up and take that stiff Paulina with you. Wasserman and big crafty left hander Mark are the pitching liabilities. A bright side- Danks pitched very well last night.
 
Limp Ditka said:
urbanhack said:
Limp Ditka said:
Weaver comes out for the top of the 7th with 102 pitches thrownEach of Dye (1-0), Konerko (0-0) and AJ (1-0) swing at the first strike thrown to them (Count when swinging)Results in an 8 pitch inning, 3 up 3 down.No one's done **** against this guy all night and they think they're suddenly going to start getting hits off of him without working the count?
Click to expand...
this team is done, unless they make some wholesale changes before June 1st. The offense is slow and it sucks period.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I want Ryan Freel on this team and now.He's the best fit for what they need.Keppinger just broke a knee cap and will be out for god knows how long. Literally give them Juan Uribe, eat the salary, and a decent prospect. That would fill their gaping hole at leadoff as well as 2B.
Click to expand...
I like that idea Limp.
 
Q making an EARLY run at R of the year. Where would we be w/o this guy? Making a strong case that youth needs to be served now. Big Jim w 2 more K's last night and ready to dip below .200. Paulie needs to ride the pine if the thumb is that much of an issue. Great to see Jose get that win last night. Solid pitching boys. Come on let's get a split!

 
Good article on Guillen.

Torborg's cooler head helped save passionate Guillen's career

May 14, 2008

By Scott Miller

CBSSports.com Senior Writer

Long before the inflatable dolls in the clubhouse, the profanity-laced tirade against critical Chicago fans and, yes, even before there was any 2005 White Sox World Series title, for Ozzie Guillen, there was a 2003 weekend in South Florida when any managerial hopes he harbored could have gone up in smoke. Not long after Florida fired Jeff Torborg in the Saturday Night Massacre, the deposed manager had just returned to his apartment when he received a telephone call from his livid third-base coach.

Guillen, one of the coaches who hadn't been fired, was going to quit.

"No," Torborg told him. "Ozzie, you're going to manage someday. You can't do this now."

"Oh yes I can," Ozzie said. "If you're going, I'm going."

Life is fragile, and it turns on moments like this for people all over the world, every day.

Had Guillen followed his heart instead of, eventually, his head back in '03, who's to say this wouldn't be the 91st year of the White Sox's World Series drought?

Who's to say Guillen would have even become a major league manager, period?

Where would he be if he had quit that weekend?

"I might be back home in Venezuela," he said during a batting-practice conversation at Angel Stadium the other night. "I don't know what I would be doing.

"At that particular time, it was hard for me because he's the guy who gave me my opportunity."

We all have guys who gave us an opportunity, somewhere along the line.

And when things turn for the worse for them, what do you do?

You learn a lot about a person in moments like those.

Some of us are schmoozers and climbers, and as soon as we bypass someone on our career path, as soon as they're no longer in a position where they can help us, we forget we even knew them.

Some of us aren't, and don't.

"At that time, I don't think it was fair that they fired him because we had a couple of guys hurt," Guillen said. "I wanted to show him I was loyal, and that I was there to help him. I worked with him with the Montreal Expos and with the Marlins, and I don't think I could have worked with someone else at that time.

"He said, 'Don't burn any bridges. The players need you. You should be there.'"

Torborg talked at length with Guillen late that Saturday evening.

"I thought I had him convinced," said Torborg, now retired in Sarasota, Fla., during a telephone conversation the other night.

And do you know what?

Next day, when the Marlins were scheduled to leave for San Diego after the final game of the homestand, a still smoking Guillen showed up at the park dressed in ...

Shorts.

No major league club allows shorts on charter flights.

Torborg got a call at home that morning from his son, Dale, who was the Marlins strength coach and who hadn't been fired -- yet.

"He told me Ozzie had packed up his stuff in some boxes, had the boxes all taped up and told people he was going home," Torborg said.

As a manager, one of Guillen's biggest assets is that he is both genuine and blunt. It wins the respect and affection of players -- and it keeps them. When was the last time you heard a former White Sox player take off after Guillen in public (well, OK, other than Frank Thomas)? Keep thinking. It's going to take awhile.

At the same time, these traits also can be Guillen's biggest detriment. They got him sent to sensitivity counseling in 2006 (when he uttered a slur against gays), and they caused moments like the one in Toronto a couple of weeks ago, when, fed up with a steady flow of negativity by outsiders toward his slumping team, Guillen fired back in a Windy City tirade not seen since Lee Elia was managing the Cubs.

"Right now everyone in Chicago is making lineups -- 'Call up this guy, call up that guy,' " Guillen told reporters that day. "If we had 50 people allowed on the roster, we could to that. That's what ticks me off about Chicago fans and Chicago media. They forget pretty quickly.

"A couple of days ago, we were the f------ best s--- in town. Now, we're s---."

And he went on from there.

The incident, just like the aftermath of the Torborg firing, demonstrates Guillen's loyalty and passion.

Often, it's lovable.

Sometimes, it's not.

But by far, the good outweighs the bad.

Torborg, now 66, and Guillen, 44, became acquainted when Torborg managed the White Sox from 1989-1991 and Guillen was his shortstop. When Torborg was named as Montreal's manager, replacing Felipe Alou in 2001, one of his first phone calls was to Guillen with an invitation to join his coaching staff. Guillen did -- the first of three seasons he spent as a coach, his apprenticeship to becoming a major league manager.

"I'm not a prognosticator, but his leadership ability ... to see what I saw years before," Torborg said. "Two or three weeks after I was fired, I called (White Sox owner) Jerry Reinsdorf in Chicago and told him, 'I'm not suggesting you replace your manager (Jerry Manuel), but I know how you feel about Ozzie, and he's ready to manage.'

"I mean, you've never seen a guy work with young players the way he does. Especially with young Latinos. He's tough. He tells them what he expects. Then he puts his arm around 'em and takes 'em out to dinner."

Guillen, who did wind up replacing Manuel after that '03 season -- becoming the first native Venezuelan to manage in the big leagues -- denied having anything to do with the inflatable doll flap two weekends ago in Toronto. Though he quickly found himself embroiled in the controversy, nonetheless. It's his team.

What happened was, some badly slumping White Sox players, looking for, shall we say, a creative way to change their luck, brought a couple of inflatable female dolls into the clubhouse in Toronto. The dolls reportedly were nude, with a strategically placed bat propping one of them up from behind. They also were adorned with a couple of signs, one of which was a play on coach Jeff Cox's motivational catch-phrase of the year, "You've got to push."

Juvenile? Yes.

National outrage? Hardly.

Everything must be sanitized today. Some folks spend more time looking for things to be insulted by than they do grooming themselves.

Guess what? Sometimes, things get messy. Sometimes, the corners don't all fold up neatly. In the clubhouse, players sometimes use coarse language. Sometimes, they even look at Playboy.

And often, Guillen isn't politically correct. Get over it.

"He has a knack for pulling guys together," Torborg said. "People don't realize, he's quick. His quick tongue gets him in trouble sometimes. But that same quickness has players realizing he's tough, but that he'll also back them."

That Sunday in '03, wearing shorts and planning to quit the Marlins, Guillen spoke again with Torborg by telephone. The fired manager delivered the same emphatic message: Don't quit. You've got a career. Guillen met with Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria and general manager Larry Beinfest, who also asked him to stay.

Finally, convinced, Guillen phoned one of his sons and asked him to bring a suitcase to the ballpark.

When that afternoon's game was finished, Guillen was still the Marlins third-base coach. And he headed out on the road with the team, toward San Diego and toward his future.

"I think it's destiny," Guillen said. "Because I told my wife the situation at the time, I told her I've got a few more years to coach in the big leagues, and it's like going to college. I'd coach for a few years, but if I didn't graduate, become a major league manager ..."

So now, the Education of Ozzie Guillen continues.

But, then? If things had deteriorated further that weekend in '03?

"Maybe," Guillen said. "I'd just be in (Venezuelan) winter league baseball."
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Power Monster said:
Q making an EARLY run at R of the year. Where would we be w/o this guy? Making a strong case that youth needs to be served now. Big Jim w 2 more K's last night and ready to dip below .200. Paulie needs to ride the pine if the thumb is that much of an issue. Great to see Jose get that win last night. Solid pitching boys. Come on let's get a split!
Click to expand...
He wasn't a rookie last year
 
Limp Ditka said:
Power Monster said:
Q making an EARLY run at R of the year. Where would we be w/o this guy? Making a strong case that youth needs to be served now. Big Jim w 2 more K's last night and ready to dip below .200. Paulie needs to ride the pine if the thumb is that much of an issue. Great to see Jose get that win last night. Solid pitching boys. Come on let's get a split!
Click to expand...
He wasn't a rookie last year
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:thumbup: My bad. I admit to being a dumb ### on that one Limp. And it is way to early to say MVP but not MVP of the Sox.
 
Great job to get the split! I am concerned about Joe- 8 errors on the season I believe. AJ is having a nice season thus far w a big fat chip on his shoulder headed to the city by the bay. Looks like Uribe is going to be taking some time off. Good chance to go 7-3 or 6-4 here. This is a series that cannot get away.

 
Wrigley said:
Am I way off base thinking Joe may still be injured?
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Possible. With the physical demands of playing and practicing ON TOP of the traveling he can be going thru some wear and tear. The torque in the trunk and spine in baseball is brutal on an injury like his.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Manager Ozzie Guillen said Wednesday that the White Sox aren't ready to call up Jerry Owens from Triple-A.

Carlos Quentin isn't going anywhere as the starting left fielder, and both Jermaine Dye and Nick Swisher will be playing every day, so Owens would likely spend most of his time on the bench anyway. ''We talked about him, but we left the conversation right there,'' Guillen said. "We have to wait for the right time to call him up.''

Any thoughts on when Ozzie might finally get it and bring up Owens? What exactly has Swisher done to be an every day starter?

 
I don't know what I'm more dumbfounded by, the fact that Ozzie left Thorton in there or the fact that he got out of it.

 
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