Who Else Would Have Done As Well Or Better . . . (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

As a spin-off of the Roethlisberger is in the Brady/Manning tier now thread, what other QBs, if inserted in the same exact situation, would have done as well or better over the past 5 seasons in Pittsburgh with everything else the same personnel and coaching wise. Just remove Ben and insert other QBs.

In those 5 years, PIT has been the #1 team in points allowed by over 80 points in that timeframe. They also rank 7th in points scored over that span. List all QBs that in your opinion would have managed to have done at least as well or even better.

And this is no slight to Roethlisberger, as he's been a proven winner and 2 time SB champion. He's won a ton of games and several where he was the driving force to bring PIT from behind to win. I realize he did not always have to put up big numbers for the Steelers to win, which is why I'm wondering if other players who have not played on teams with good defenses could have met with similar results.

So just trying to figure out what other QBs could have stepped into the same scenario (best defense in the league, usually a strong running game, solid coaching, etc.). I don't have an immediate answer to this, and for all I know the answer could very well be zero.

 

[Copeman]

I'd narrow the search down to a QB that is mobile, has great pocket awareness, and can throw the ball accurately and hard when needed. Favre immediately comes to mind.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Probably just Brady.

Warner and Peyton Manning are not as good at improvising by running around making plays like Roethlisberger is.

Brees strikes me as more of a pocket passer, too, and that wouldn't work well in Pittsburgh.

Rivers didn't really come into this own until the last year or two, so he wouldn't have done too well the first few years.

So, yeah, just Brady.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Brady only. Vintage Favre sure, but not the current version IMO.

 

[Devine Intervention]

Probably just Brady.

Warner and Peyton Manning are not as good at improvising by running around making plays like Roethlisberger is.

Brees strikes me as more of a pocket passer, too, and that wouldn't work well in Pittsburgh.

Rivers didn't really come into this own until the last year or two, so he wouldn't have done too well the first few years.

So, yeah, just Brady.

Warner doesnt need to run around. His line was worse than the Steelers and in that game played with just as much pressure. The difference is Warner has a fast release and finds his hot route. Oh add to the fact that he has an even worse run game and playing against the best Def in the league...yeah, ill take Warner(if its based on one year). For the future of a franchise Id go with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers...then Ben

 

[awesomeness]

Probably just Brady. Warner and Peyton Manning are not as good at improvising by running around making plays like Roethlisberger is.Brees strikes me as more of a pocket passer, too, and that wouldn't work well in Pittsburgh. Rivers didn't really come into this own until the last year or two, so he wouldn't have done too well the first few years. So, yeah, just Brady.

Since when is Brady more mobile than Manning? I'd say Brady, Manning, McNabb. Maybe Palmer and/or Brees and/or Rivers.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Probably just Brady.

Warner and Peyton Manning are not as good at improvising by running around making plays like Roethlisberger is.

Brees strikes me as more of a pocket passer, too, and that wouldn't work well in Pittsburgh.

Rivers didn't really come into this own until the last year or two, so he wouldn't have done too well the first few years.

So, yeah, just Brady.

Warner doesnt need to run around. His line was worse than the Steelers and in that game played with just as much pressure. The difference is Warner has a fast release and finds his hot route. Oh add to the fact that he has an even worse run game and playing against the best Def in the league...yeah, ill take Warner(if its based on one year). For the future of a franchise Id go with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers...then Ben

Don't get me wrong, I am a big Warner fan, and think he is great, but he is great at throwing with pressure all around him, without having to move that much. He isn't as good at moving around in the pocket for 4 or 5 seconds and then making a play. Warner is more about dissecting a defense with precision and intelligence, while Roethlisberger is like a kid on the playground, running around like crazy and making something out of nothing. Warner isn't as mobile as BR, and would get killed behind that line in Pittsburgh, as would Manning.

 

[Blackjacks]

I'll be the first to say I'm not a big believer in Big Ben

I would take these qb's over him in the last five years and think Pitt would have the same, if not better success

Cutler (I know he hasn't been around 5 years yet but as long as he's been playing), Rivers, McNabb, Hasselbeck and Favre

 

[Devine Intervention]

Probably just Brady.

Warner and Peyton Manning are not as good at improvising by running around making plays like Roethlisberger is.

Brees strikes me as more of a pocket passer, too, and that wouldn't work well in Pittsburgh.

Rivers didn't really come into this own until the last year or two, so he wouldn't have done too well the first few years.

So, yeah, just Brady.

Warner doesnt need to run around. His line was worse than the Steelers and in that game played with just as much pressure. The difference is Warner has a fast release and finds his hot route. Oh add to the fact that he has an even worse run game and playing against the best Def in the league...yeah, ill take Warner(if its based on one year). For the future of a franchise Id go with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers...then Ben

Don't get me wrong, I am a big Warner fan, and think he is great, but he is great at throwing with pressure all around him. He isn't as good at moving around in the pack for 4 or 5 seconds and then making a play. Warner is more about dissecting a defense with precision and intelligence, while Roethlisberger is like a kid on the playground, running around like crazy and making something out of nothing. Warner isn't as mobile as BR, and would get killed behind that line in Pittsburgh, as would Manning.

My point being that he wouldnt need to run around for 4-5 seconds, the ball would have already been out of his hands. He has just as little time as Ben does, difference is Warner gets rid of the ball, ben runs around and then gets rid of the ball. Behind Ariz oline, Warner gets the ball off quick, whereas Ben would do the exact same thing as he does in Pitt, feel the pressure, run around and then sometimes makes the play. Just because Warner isnt mobile doesnt mean he doesnt deal with the pressure, he just does it diff. For the best ex on a way less scale watch Lossman and Edwards. Both make some plays...Edwards releases the ball on time and Lossman runs around to make plays. The Bills oline looks way better with Edwards under center than with JP. Not saying they are in the same realm as BR and Warner but similar styles.

 

[Bayhawks]

Warner doesnt need to run around. His line was worse than the Steelers and in that game played with just as much pressure. The difference is Warner has a fast release and finds his hot route. Oh add to the fact that he has an even worse run game and playing against the best Def in the league...yeah, ill take Warner(if its based on one year). For the future of a franchise Id go with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers...then Ben

You're kidding about this bolded line, right? While Arizona's line is not good at run-blocking, they are widely regarded as an above-average pass-blocking line; they were assembled for that reason.With regards to the underlined section: think about the situation, for a second. How did Warner look in StL when the line fell apart? How did he look in NY when he didn't have 2 stud WRs to throw to? Don't get me wrong, Warner is a great QB, and should be a HOFer, but the OP was asking how would other QBs do WITH PITTSBURGH'S SITUATION THE LAST 5 YEARS If you had put Warner behind the crappy O-line, with less than stellar WRs, he'd never have had this career "resurgence" that was so talked about the last few weeks.

 

[Devine Intervention]

Warner doesnt need to run around. His line was worse than the Steelers and in that game played with just as much pressure. The difference is Warner has a fast release and finds his hot route. Oh add to the fact that he has an even worse run game and playing against the best Def in the league...yeah, ill take Warner(if its based on one year). For the future of a franchise Id go with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers...then Ben

You're kidding about this bolded line, right? While Arizona's line is not good at run-blocking, they are widely regarded as an above-average pass-blocking line; they were assembled for that reason.With regards to the underlined section: think about the situation, for a second. How did Warner look in StL when the line fell apart? How did he look in NY when he didn't have 2 stud WRs to throw to? Don't get me wrong, Warner is a great QB, and should be a HOFer, but the OP was asking how would other QBs do WITH PITTSBURGH'S SITUATION THE LAST 5 YEARS If you had put Warner behind the crappy O-line, with less than stellar WRs, he'd never have had this career "resurgence" that was so talked about the last few weeks.

I picture Warner being a way better version of Maddox...Oh, and their start LT is Gandy...so saying their line is this great line is a joke, just based on him alone. Warner played with pressure the whole game, check that, the whole playoffs. Hes just on point lately with his quick release.

 

[David Yudkin]

Warner doesnt need to run around. His line was worse than the Steelers and in that game played with just as much pressure. The difference is Warner has a fast release and finds his hot route. Oh add to the fact that he has an even worse run game and playing against the best Def in the league...yeah, ill take Warner(if its based on one year). For the future of a franchise Id go with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers...then Ben

You're kidding about this bolded line, right? While Arizona's line is not good at run-blocking, they are widely regarded as an above-average pass-blocking line; they were assembled for that reason.With regards to the underlined section: think about the situation, for a second. How did Warner look in StL when the line fell apart? How did he look in NY when he didn't have 2 stud WRs to throw to? Don't get me wrong, Warner is a great QB, and should be a HOFer, but the OP was asking how would other QBs do WITH PITTSBURGH'S SITUATION THE LAST 5 YEARS If you had put Warner behind the crappy O-line, with less than stellar WRs, he'd never have had this career "resurgence" that was so talked about the last few weeks.

I don't know enough about grading OLs to make a full comment, but in the SB they mentioned that Warner hadn't thrown but a couple of passes more than 10 yards and I believe that was late in the game. If ARI was running routes to get the ball released in 3 seconds, why would he have to suddenly be running for his life had he played for PIT? Couldn't he have done the same thing there?Also, STL used minimal pass protection and maximum receiver routes, opting to try to pass protect with only 5 linemen without help. I don't see PIT running that type of scheme on a regular basis.

 

[Blackjacks]

Warner doesnt need to run around. His line was worse than the Steelers and in that game played with just as much pressure. The difference is Warner has a fast release and finds his hot route. Oh add to the fact that he has an even worse run game and playing against the best Def in the league...yeah, ill take Warner(if its based on one year). For the future of a franchise Id go with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers...then Ben

You're kidding about this bolded line, right? While Arizona's line is not good at run-blocking, they are widely regarded as an above-average pass-blocking line; they were assembled for that reason.With regards to the underlined section: think about the situation, for a second. How did Warner look in StL when the line fell apart? How did he look in NY when he didn't have 2 stud WRs to throw to? Don't get me wrong, Warner is a great QB, and should be a HOFer, but the OP was asking how would other QBs do WITH PITTSBURGH'S SITUATION THE LAST 5 YEARS If you had put Warner behind the crappy O-line, with less than stellar WRs, he'd never have had this career "resurgence" that was so talked about the last few weeks.

Also remember that Warner was coming off of three concussions the year before and a broken hand.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Probably just Brady.

Warner and Peyton Manning are not as good at improvising by running around making plays like Roethlisberger is.

Brees strikes me as more of a pocket passer, too, and that wouldn't work well in Pittsburgh.

Rivers didn't really come into this own until the last year or two, so he wouldn't have done too well the first few years.

So, yeah, just Brady.

Warner doesnt need to run around. His line was worse than the Steelers and in that game played with just as much pressure. The difference is Warner has a fast release and finds his hot route. Oh add to the fact that he has an even worse run game and playing against the best Def in the league...yeah, ill take Warner(if its based on one year). For the future of a franchise Id go with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers...then Ben

Don't get me wrong, I am a big Warner fan, and think he is great, but he is great at throwing with pressure all around him. He isn't as good at moving around in the pack for 4 or 5 seconds and then making a play. Warner is more about dissecting a defense with precision and intelligence, while Roethlisberger is like a kid on the playground, running around like crazy and making something out of nothing. Warner isn't as mobile as BR, and would get killed behind that line in Pittsburgh, as would Manning.

My point being that he wouldnt need to run around for 4-5 seconds, the ball would have already been out of his hands. He has just as little time as Ben does, difference is Warner gets rid of the ball, ben runs around and then gets rid of the ball. Behind Ariz oline, Warner gets the ball off quick, whereas Ben would do the exact same thing as he does in Pitt, feel the pressure, run around and then sometimes makes the play. Just because Warner isnt mobile doesnt mean he doesnt deal with the pressure, he just does it diff.

Pittsburgh's WRs do not get open as quickly as Arizona's do, so getting rid of the ball quickly to the open guy is not that easy, especially when there is no open receiver.

And I know Warner deals with pressure in a different way. I already said that. But it is different because Warner is an ace at finding the open receiver quickly in the face of pressure, but again, with the receivers Arizona has, someone is almost always open, but that is not the case in Pittsburgh.

If you gave Roethlisberger receivers like Fitzgerald and Boldin, he would put up some ridiculous numbers. Ward and Holmes are both good, but neither are monsters like Boldin and Fitzgerald.

 

[Bayhawks]

My point being that he wouldnt need to run around for 4-5 seconds, the ball would have already been out of his hands. He has just as little time as Ben does, difference is Warner gets rid of the ball, ben runs around and then gets rid of the ball. Behind Ariz oline, Warner gets the ball off quick, whereas Ben would do the exact same thing as he does in Pitt, feel the pressure, run around and then sometimes makes the play. Just because Warner isnt mobile doesnt mean he doesnt deal with the pressure, he just does it diff. For the best ex on a way less scale watch Lossman and Edwards. Both make some plays...Edwards releases the ball on time and Lossman runs around to make plays. The Bills oline looks way better with Edwards under center than with JP. Not saying they are in the same realm as BR and Warner but similar styles.

You're not paying attention to the original premise: don't just say who puts up better numbers, who would have done better than Roethlisberger in PITTSBURGH? You're saying "Warner would be better because he would get rid of the ball quicker." No he wouldn't-that's not the offense that Pittsburgh runs. Warner would have to take longer to let the kind of routes Pittsburgh runs develop. Because of the craptastic O-line in Pittsburgh, Warner would HAVE to scramble and buy time, and as we saw the last play Arizona ran in the SB (and towards the end of his StL run), he doesn't have success when he needs to do that.

 

[Matt Waldman]

I'd argue a healthy Steve McNair in his MVP season or prior to it would have done as well or better than Big Ben. Big, mobile, good accuracy (one of the better 3rd down QBs in the game), and total fit with the Steeler mentality in terms of toughness and leadership.

 

[Bayhawks]

I don't know enough about grading OLs to make a full comment, but in the SB they mentioned that Warner hadn't thrown but a couple of passes more than 10 yards and I believe that was late in the game. If ARI was running routes to get the ball released in 3 seconds, why would he have to suddenly be running for his life had he played for PIT? Couldn't he have done the same thing there?

Also, STL used minimal pass protection and maximum receiver routes, opting to try to pass protect with only 5 linemen without help. I don't see PIT running that type of scheme on a regular basis.

You answered your own question. You stated that "I don't see PIT running that type of scheme on a regular basis." They also don't run routes (often) that have the ball released in 3 seconds. Their WRs also aren't the same type of WRs as Arizona has. Boldin and Fitz are big WRs who are quite good at YAC. Holmes and Ward are smaller guys who aren't huge YAC WRs.

 

[Bayhawks]

I picture Warner being a way better version of Maddox...

Oh, and their start LT is Gandy...so saying their line is this great line is a joke, just based on him alone. Warner played with pressure the whole game, check that, the whole playoffs. Hes just on point lately with his quick release.

Link to where I stated the bolded?I said their O-line is regarded as being above average at pass-blocking. This is true, whether you want to admit it or not. Warner played with pressure b/c he played blitzing defenses like Pitt and Philly who could get to him in 2-3 seconds. When you run routes that require 2-3 seconds before you can make the throw, having a DL or LB on you in 3-4 seconds=pressure. When you run routes that require 4-5 seconds before you can make the throw, you're likely to get more pressure.

It's not Warner's "quick release," it's the routes his WRs were running (and the fact that they are better equipped to take underneath, short, safe throws and add YAC).

If you put Warner in Pitt's offense, which doesn't call for many 2-3 second routes, he would HAVE to hold the ball longer. Pitt's O-line WOULDN'T give him any more time than they give Ben, and Warner wouldn't be able to adjust to that situation.

 

[Copeman]

I'd argue a healthy Steve McNair in his MVP season or prior to it would have done as well or better than Big Ben. Big, mobile, good accuracy (one of the better 3rd down QBs in the game), and total fit with the Steeler mentality in terms of toughness and leadership.

Good call. I agree.

 

[Tau837]

To me, same situation means same coaches and personnel. But I think it's foolish to think the offense may not have been tweaked somewhat for a different QB, to better maximize their strengths and avoid their weaknesses.

I think the following QBs would have done as well or better in Pittsburgh the past 5 seasons:

Brady

Peyton Manning

Rivers

Favre

And maybe Palmer (if he was on the Steelers, he wouldn't have had the knee injury...).

ETA: By the way, I read this as the entire 5 year period, so Cutler wouldn't qualify, nor does using McNair just for less than 5 seasons.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Nobody. Neither Brady or Manning make this play.

 

[stevegamer]

I think with a couple other QB's like Brees, Manning, Brady, there might have been a slight change in philospohy, but the results would've been similar - the coach would've been smart enough to use that guy's strengths the same way they use Roethlisberger's strengths. He wasn't very good in the first Super Bowl, so there's along list of guys who could've done that - but over the whole period of time, it's pretty good.

If you're limiting it to guys who have some escapability & can extend plays - there aren't a ton of them who do that right now. Cutler seems similar enough. McNabb is less accurate, but can extend plays and might run better.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Eli Manning... See last years playoff's for the exact reason why.

 

[Copeman]

Jake Plummer.

 

[Larrywarren]

I'm in the mobile QB camp on this one in that I reckon only a mobile QB could do as well as Big Ben with exactly the same personnel over the past 5 years - and of the mobile QBs of the last 5 years I'd put Big Ben at the top.

A stat went up on Pittsburgh's last drive which gives serious support to the Roethlisberger is elite argument - since 2004 he has led the team on a league high 17 game winning drives in the 4th quarter or OT. That speaks volumes for him IMO

 

[parasaurolophus]

anybody think maybe the reason warner is able to find the open man so often is because there are more open men?

i mean come on, how many times do you see Larry Fitzgerald just run totally free across the middle?

Boldin on one side Fitz on the other. Look to Fitz if he isnt open you look to Boldin on the other side. If as your eyes are going across you see somebody wide open, you throw it to them. Pretty sure lots of QBs could make those throws.

 

[Adebisi]

anybody think maybe the reason warner is able to find the open man so often is because there are more open men?i mean come on, how many times do you see Larry Fitzgerald just run totally free across the middle? Boldin on one side Fitz on the other. Look to Fitz if he isnt open you look to Boldin on the other side. If as your eyes are going across you see somebody wide open, you throw it to them. Pretty sure lots of QBs could make those throws.

You make it seem so easy, like anyone could do it. I wonder why Matt Leinart can't get it right?

 

[Tau837]

A stat went up on Pittsburgh's last drive which gives serious support to the Roethlisberger is elite argument - since 2004 he has led the team on a league high 17 game winning drives in the 4th quarter or OT. That speaks volumes for him IMO

I do think this is a great credit to Ben. But what would be more relevant is to compare not the number of game winning drives, but rather the percentage he and other QBs have converted of the opportunities they have had for game winning drives.I would expect Ben to have had far more opportunities than most, if not all, other QBs since 2004, since he has generally had a very strong defense that helped keep Pittsburgh in most of their games. Not to mention that Ben has played at least 7 more games than all other QBs over that span except Brady, Peyton, Eli, and Favre.

 

[jetpack]

I'll say only a hypothetical Big Ben w/out the motorcycle accident and appendectomy. You're guaranteed to get the 2 Super Bowls AND a better 2006 season.

 

[Adebisi]

A stat went up on Pittsburgh's last drive which gives serious support to the Roethlisberger is elite argument - since 2004 he has led the team on a league high 17 game winning drives in the 4th quarter or OT. That speaks volumes for him IMO

I do think this is a great credit to Ben. But what would be more relevant is to compare not the number of game winning drives, but rather the percentage he and other QBs have converted of the opportunities they have had for game winning drives.I would expect Ben to have had far more opportunities than most, if not all, other QBs since 2004, since he has generally had a very strong defense that helped keep Pittsburgh in most of their games. Not to mention that Ben has played at least 7 more games than all other QBs over that span except Brady, Peyton, Eli, and Favre.

Why the #### didnt we ever hear this with Montana? Or Elway?Now this wants get applied? gtfooh

I've always said this about 4th quarter comebacks: in order to be in a position to come back for the win in the 4th quarter, you have to fall behind first.

 

[jurb26]

Probably just Brady. Warner and Peyton Manning are not as good at improvising by running around making plays like Roethlisberger is.Brees strikes me as more of a pocket passer, too, and that wouldn't work well in Pittsburgh. Rivers didn't really come into this own until the last year or two, so he wouldn't have done too well the first few years. So, yeah, just Brady.

Since when is Brady more mobile than Manning? I'd say Brady, Manning, McNabb. Maybe Palmer and/or Brees and/or Rivers.

Brady has absolutely the best pocket awareness of any QB in the NFL. That is more the determination of "mobile" for a QB than being able to run around and appear athletic IMO. I concur with Ghost, Brady is the only guy I think would be as good or better.

 

[Matt Waldman]

I'm arguing semantics, but I think mobility and pocket awareness are two very different skills. Each of the players below had the skills I assigned them in various amounts so don't think I'm lumping a guy like McNair with Joe Montana.

Michael Vick is mobile.

Tom Brady has pocket awareness.

Dan Marino had pocket awareness.

Joe Montana had pocket awareness and mobility for much of his career as did (eventually) Steve McNair, Steve Young, and John Elway.

Vince Young is mobile.

Warren Moon had pocket awareness.

I think with Big Ben's surrounding talent, he needed mobility and pocket awareness to be successful. I believe when it came down to the last two minutes of the SB we saw a good example of how Kurt Warner has pocket awareness but lacks mobility and Roethlisberger possesses both.

 

[Matt Waldman]

anybody think maybe the reason warner is able to find the open man so often is because there are more open men?i mean come on, how many times do you see Larry Fitzgerald just run totally free across the middle? Boldin on one side Fitz on the other. Look to Fitz if he isnt open you look to Boldin on the other side. If as your eyes are going across you see somebody wide open, you throw it to them. Pretty sure lots of QBs could make those throws.

You make it seem so easy, like anyone could do it. I wonder why Matt Leinart can't get it right?

Definitely agree it isn't easy, because there are probably only 8-10 QBs who could do it with enough consistency to be in Warner's place and maybe another 8-10 who could do it 3/4 of the time Warner did. But when you think about it those 16-20 QBs are starting for other NFL teams. Leinart lost the starting job when financial pressure from the organization, youth, and pedigree were all on his side to win it. I think it probably makes more sense to stick to starting caliber QBs and not guys who have yet to prove they can cut it at the NFL level. Leinart might sooner than later, but he hasn't yet.

 

[stevegamer]

A stat went up on Pittsburgh's last drive which gives serious support to the Roethlisberger is elite argument - since 2004 (when he entered the league) he has led the team on a league high 17 game winning drives in the 4th quarter or OT. That speaks volumes for him IMO

And during these winning drives... the Steeler defense is irrelevant.

Sort of. The D has to play well enough to keep the game close enough you can win it, and not so well the team is already winning big. Also if the offense was more explosive they might be leading by more which means less game winning drives. Still a good things to do, though.

 

[*****]

I tend to think that Warner would do very well leading a team that has such a strong defense. His accuracy and quick release would mean a different offense than the one lead by Big Ben but it's likely he could get similar or better results. Warner deserves credit for the field savvy he has displayed in a variety of circumstances over the years. His winning percentage as a starter on some otherwise mediocre teams has proven that he can be a difference maker. I could only see him having a positive impact on Pittsburgh. This is no slight to Big Ben but is instead a credit to the QB Warner has proven himself to be.

I also think Brees should get more love in this thread. San Diego and NO became passing teams partly because he was so good at it. I think the Pitt personnel would compare favorably to some of the receivers he had in San Diego. He'd benefit from the great D and is more mobile than he is given credit for. At his size, he has to move around a lot to make plays and he definitely makes plays. Again, his accuracy is a great strenght too. I think he would excel in Pitt. He managed to help turn around SD and then NO. What could do with a championship caliber team like Pitt?

 

[Ralph Furley]

talk about pissing in the SP, this is just plain silly.

As others have mentioned you can play this game with any succesful QB.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I think Big Ben is a perfect fit for the Steelers and the identity of the team and the town. I don't see any other current QB fitting in as well, not even Brady or Manning. If you had to call Central Casting for a guy to play the Steelers starting QB, a guy like Big Ben would show up. I don't see Rivers, Eli, Warner, etc playing the same role as well, although Favre in his prime could have done it. McNair might have been another choice, but you want a guy that will last an entire season.

 

[Tau837]

A stat went up on Pittsburgh's last drive which gives serious support to the Roethlisberger is elite argument - since 2004 he has led the team on a league high 17 game winning drives in the 4th quarter or OT. That speaks volumes for him IMO

I do think this is a great credit to Ben. But what would be more relevant is to compare not the number of game winning drives, but rather the percentage he and other QBs have converted of the opportunities they have had for game winning drives.I would expect Ben to have had far more opportunities than most, if not all, other QBs since 2004, since he has generally had a very strong defense that helped keep Pittsburgh in most of their games. Not to mention that Ben has played at least 7 more games than all other QBs over that span except Brady, Peyton, Eli, and Favre.

Why the #### didnt we ever hear this with Montana? Or Elway?Now this wants get applied? gtfooh

In 4 of Ben's 5 seasons, the Steelers finished in the top 3 in points allowed and in the top 4 in yards allowed. I don't think Montana or Elway had defenses that were consistently that good.As an example, just look at the Super Bowl. Warner led his team to a go ahead score late in the 4th. Had his defense stopped the Steelers, that would have been a game winning drive. But they didn't, which had nothing to do with Warner. So game winning drives do have something to do with the defense, and Ben has been fortunate to play with one of the best for his entire career.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

A stat went up on Pittsburgh's last drive which gives serious support to the Roethlisberger is elite argument - since 2004 he has led the team on a league high 17 game winning drives in the 4th quarter or OT. That speaks volumes for him IMO

I do think this is a great credit to Ben. But what would be more relevant is to compare not the number of game winning drives, but rather the percentage he and other QBs have converted of the opportunities they have had for game winning drives.I would expect Ben to have had far more opportunities than most, if not all, other QBs since 2004, since he has generally had a very strong defense that helped keep Pittsburgh in most of their games. Not to mention that Ben has played at least 7 more games than all other QBs over that span except Brady, Peyton, Eli, and Favre.

Why the #### didnt we ever hear this with Montana? Or Elway?Now this wants get applied? gtfooh

I've always said this about 4th quarter comebacks: in order to be in a position to come back for the win in the 4th quarter, you have to fall behind first.

Yep, a mediocre offense combined with a great defense is the recipe for a lot of close games. Roethlisberger is great in the clutch, I'm not doubting that, but he also gets tons of opportunities just due to the nature of his team.Last year, Eli Manning led 5 fourth quarter comebacks in 5 tries (in games where they were within one score in the 4th quarter), including a last minute game winning drive in the NFC Championship, and a last minute game winning drive in the Super Bowl against one of the best teams of all-time.Rex Grossman led the Bears to 4 fourth quarter comebacks in the last three minutes of the game (not even just the 4th quarter) in 5 tries the year they went to the Super Bowl, including one in the playoffsl where his defense, running game, and return game played like crap and he carried the team on his shoulders.There are lots of quarterbacks that are good down the stretch. Even beyond that, I think there are a handful of quarterbacks that would have had far fewer comeback wins than Roethlisberger if they played in Pittsburgh, but would have done better overall just because with a defense like that, some of them would have won some of those games going away and never had to come back in the first place.I think the notion that a mobile QB is necessary is pretty out there. Ok, we can assume the same players, but obviously they're going to run the offense towards their personnel. Besides, for every great play Big Ben makes running around in circles, he ends 4 more drives by taking a huge sack on one of those plays, but has a defense in which he can afford to kill drives at the risk of making plays. Zona couldn't get to him in the Super Bowl (although at least one of their scoring drives should have ended on an intentional grounding that should have been called on Big Ben), but that's definitely not the rule.Offhand, I think the following QBs would have done as good or better in the same situation:BradyManningBreesPalmer (pre-injury)RiversCutler (if we moved his rookie year back to the year Roethlisberger came into the league)E. ManningRomoWarnerMaybe:McnabbI think that only Brady, Manning, and Brees would have actually done better, but the rest I think would have done as well, or nearly as well, barring maybe Mcnabb who is basically a slightly more inconsistent version of Roethlisberger (on both sides of the spectrum).Pittsburgh was 20th in the league in scoring offense this year, and 1st in scoring defense. The combination left them 5th in scoring differential, despite being 20th in points scored. That's a pretty big jump, and it says a lot about what the key to this team is.In the Super Bowl, the Pittsburgh offense had to score only 17 points against the Cardinals defense to keep up (and that's partially because they gave up 2 points on offense). The only teams that failed to do that against the Cardinals this year were led by JT O'Sullivan, Marc Bulger, Jake Delhomme, and Chad Pennington.

 

[puckalicious]

This guy.

 

[stewartcjae]

Any of the top 10 QB's could have done just as good, maybe not better but I think its pretty close. That's not a knock on Ben, I think he is a great QB, but I believe situation of teams is a big factor for wins/championships. Very few QB's can completely carry their teams on their shoulders, I dont think Ben is there yet.

You give the Cardinals pitts D and they win. You give NO, Indy, Dallas, Giants, .....pitts D and they win the Superbowl.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

talk about pissing in the SP, this is just plain silly.As others have mentioned you can play this game with any succesful QB.

Yeah but after another year of the Patriots not winning the Super Bowl we have to talk about Tom Brady being better than someone.

 

[Adebisi]

I think Big Ben is a perfect fit for the Steelers and the identity of the team and the town. I don't see any other current QB fitting in as well, not even Brady or Manning. If you had to call Central Casting for a guy to play the Steelers starting QB, a guy like Big Ben would show up. I don't see Rivers, Eli, Warner, etc playing the same role as well, although Favre in his prime could have done it. McNair might have been another choice, but you want a guy that will last an entire season.

Why? What is it about Roethlisberger that fits so well? Brady is one of the hardest working players in the league, is full of fire, thrives under pressure, has great pocket presence, keeps his nose clean, shares the spotlight, and has done more with lesser offenses than Pittsburgh has now. Oh, and he wins Super Bowls. What am I missing here? What wouldn't fit in perfectly with Pittsburgh's identity as a team or town?Not that we're trying to get rid of him here in New England, of course.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Oh, and he wins Super Bowls.

Sometimes.

 

[Adebisi]

Oh, and he wins Super Bowls.

Sometimes.

More than any other active QB. And by the time he's done, it's quite possible he'll have more than any other QB, period. You may not like to hear that. Oh well.

 

[timschochet]

Let me tell you who I would NOT trade Big Ben for:

Mark Malone

David Woodley

Cliff Stoudt

Bubby Brister

Neil O' Donnell

Mike Tomzcak

Kent Graham

Kordell Stewart

Tommy Maddox

In other words, every Steeler quarterback not named Terry Bradshaw. And I might not make that trade at this point, either.

Of course Roethlisberger's an elite quarterback! Look at the crap we Steeler fans had to live with for 20 years. Hopefully when Ben's gone, we won't have to wait another 20.

 

[David Yudkin]

Oh, and he wins Super Bowls.

Sometimes.

More than any other active QB. And by the time he's done, it's quite possible he'll have more than any other QB, period. You may not like to hear that. Oh well.

Tom Brady down? Brady 87-24 (.784) in the regular season, Big Ben 51-20 (.718). Brady 14-3 (.824) in the post season, Ben 8-2 (.800).

 

[FreeBaGeL]

In other words, every Steeler quarterback not named Terry Bradshaw. And I might not make that trade at this point, either. Of course Roethlisberger's an elite quarterback! Look at the crap we Steeler fans had to live with for 20 years. Hopefully when Ben's gone, we won't have to wait another 20.

I would definitely take Big Ben over Bradshaw.

 

[Godsbrother]

Nobody. Neither Brady or Manning make this play.

and there are many more like this.This is not to say that I think Ben is better than Brady or Manning because I don't. But Roethlisberger has been sacked over 120 times in the past three seasons which is probably more than both Manning & Brady put together in their whole careers.

No QB has taken a bigger beating over the past 5 seasons than Ben Roethlisberger, yet he has won more games in his first 5 seasons than any other QB in NFL history, has an 8-2 record in the playoffs, won two super bowl championships and according to a graphic shown during the Super Bowl, has engineered the most 4th quarter comebacks of any active QB. Most QBs that get racked that hard either don't finish a season or are playing on teams that suck.

The dude is seriously underrated and I don't think either Manning or Brady could have survived behind the Steelers o-line the last 3 years.

 

[cowpie]

As a spin-off of the Roethlisberger is in the Brady/Manning tier now thread, what other QBs, if inserted in the same exact situation, would have done as well or better over the past 5 seasons in Pittsburgh with everything else the same personnel and coaching wise. Just remove Ben and insert other QBs.In those 5 years, PIT has been the #1 team in points allowed by over 80 points in that timeframe. They also rank 7th in points scored over that span. List all QBs that in your opinion would have managed to have done at least as well or even better.And this is no slight to Roethlisberger, as he's been a proven winner and 2 time SB champion. He's won a ton of games and several where he was the driving force to bring PIT from behind to win. I realize he did not always have to put up big numbers for the Steelers to win, which is why I'm wondering if other players who have not played on teams with good defenses could have met with similar results.So just trying to figure out what other QBs could have stepped into the same scenario (best defense in the league, usually a strong running game, solid coaching, etc.). I don't have an immediate answer to this, and for all I know the answer could very well be zero.

joey harrington!!!!!