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Who has the most fantasy(non-ppr/redraft) upside? (1 Viewer)

Choose Wisely - non-ppr, redraft

  • Edwards>Cotchery>Brown

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Edwards>Brown>Cotchery

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cotchery>Brown>Edwards

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cotchery>Edwards>Brown

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Brown>Cotchery>Edwards

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Brown>Edwards>Cotchery

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

LHUCKS

Footballguy
This poll is related to the following post that I made in another thread regarding YPC and upside.

In general high YPCs are more likely to significantly outperform their draft position because to exceed their previous year's numbers they more than likely just need more targets/receptions. If they have a high YPC there's a good chance the coach will try to get them the ball more the next season, if it's to the tune of 15 receptions you're talking about a significant increase in yards with a high YPC. On the other hand the guy with 80 receptions has nowhere to go but down, especially if he's a #2 WR...only a handfull of offenses get their #2 WR the ball 80 times, and even fewer 90, if any.

On the flip side, one can argue that a guy with a high YPC also can drop further because he is unlikely to maintain a high YPC, but that's where you have to use your football knowledge in understanding if the WR is likely to maintain the YPC. Further, because I feel I can pretty much outdraft anyone deep in drafts at the WR position I don't mind taking the high reward high YPC players...especially if I think the risk is low for a drastic drop in YPC.

Are you playing for second place or first. If you're playing for second you draft guys like Cotchery, if you're playing for first you draft guys like Reggie Brown or Braylon Edwards...playes that are ranked similary, but have a better YPC and in general a better chance of completely blowing up.

A perfect example of why projection rankings are crap to draft from in competitive leagues. You should be projecting ranges for players, not static values. If you're correctly projecting ranges you can give yourself a decided edge over those that are using static projections.

This is the most common concept/philsophy/strategy that is missed by "experts." I can spot a true shark a mile away when I seem a team full of high YPC WRs with mitigated risks...or if they project ranges and properly utilize those ranges when drafting a team.

 
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show me a draft the were cotchery went in front of Braylon or Reggie Brown.
what he said, in FF terms no #2 WR should go before a #1 WR that's just how it goes.Kudos to someone that has the nerve to do it though.Cotchery looks as big as some TEs and is a fantastic prospect for the future. Hucks has this a redraft thread and short of a Coles injury and/or the Jets running game being unproductive it's tough to get too high on Cotch for 07. Coles' toe and lack of a marquee name I guess both are possible but I like how the the Jets line is being built and don't think running behind it will be so difficult.Compare Cotch to "#2 WRs" and then we can talk
 
Sorry I forgot about Curtis in Philly for a moment there

I like Cotchery better than Brown

 
show me a draft the were cotchery went in front of Braylon or Reggie Brown.
Cotchery is ranked between the two by CBS...I'll check ESPN.
bad list
I already edited my post for your predictable response.The only redraft rankings I'm aware of that are out are CBS and ESPN, what other suggestions do you have? If you think there is a really good list out there I can start a new poll utilizing those rankings.
 
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This poll is related to the following post that I made in another thread regarding YPC and upside.In general high YPCs are more likely to significantly outperform their draft position because to exceed their previous year's numbers they more than likely just need more targets/receptions. If they have a high YPC there's a good chance the coach will try to get them the ball more the next season, if it's to the tune of 15 receptions you're talking about a significant increase in yards with a high YPC. On the other hand the guy with 80 receptions has nowhere to go but down, especially if he's a #2 WR...only a handfull of offenses get their #2 WR the ball 80 times, and even fewer 90, if any. On the flip side, one can argue that a guy with a high YPC also can drop further because he is unlikely to maintain a high YPC, but that's where you have to use your football knowledge in understanding if the WR is likely to maintain the YPC. Further, because I feel I can pretty much outdraft anyone deep in drafts at the WR position I don't mind taking the high reward high YPC players...especially if I think the risk is low for a drastic drop in YPC.Are you playing for second place or first. If you're playing for second you draft guys like Cotchery, if you're playing for first you draft guys like Reggie Brown or Braylon Edwards...playes that are ranked similary, but have a better YPC and in general a better chance of completely blowing up.A perfect example of why projection rankings are crap to draft from in competitive leagues. You should be projecting ranges for players, not static values. If you're correctly projecting ranges you can give yourself a decided edge over those that are using static projections.This is the most common concept/philsophy/strategy that is missed by "experts." I can spot a true shark a mile away when I seem a team full of high YPC WRs with mitigated risks...or if they project ranges and properly utilize those ranges when drafting a team.
Very interesting post. I agree with your ranking of these three players but am somewhat hesitant to weight YPC as highly as you seem to be imlying. My guess is that this is a bit of a simplification for how you actually evaluate players. I think when looking at a WR with a high YPC it is imperative to try to gain an understanding for why his YPC is so high. For instance, you could look at Ashley Lelie and say well his YPC is high so he should be ranked higher than he is. The trick is figuring out which guys have high YPC because they are incredible talents that are going to get a higher workload (Edwards this year, Lee Evans last year) and which guys are one trick ponies that will be catch 2 or 3 go routes in a good week but will not be seeing any increase in usage on other routes (Ashley Lelie basically for the last 3 years). YPC is a good aid in identifying guys with high upside but the true challenge is figuring out how to "mitigate the risks".As a good example, which one of these guys is going to explode in year three.Player A
Code:
|Year |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD ||2001 |  12 |	 0	  0	0.0	0 |	28	329  11.8	1 ||2002 |  16 |	 0	  0	0.0	0 |	69   1166  16.9	5 |
Player B
Code:
|Year |   G |   Att  Yards	Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD ||2001 |  16 |	 2	 27   13.5	0 |	30	432  14.4	2 ||2002 |  16 |	 3	  7	2.3	0 |	56	964  17.2	7 |
Both look like potential superstars. One is and the other is washed up. Player A is Chad Johnson and Player B is Quincy Morgan.I am also interested in your "range rankings". This sounds very interesting but I am confused a bit about the nuts and bolts of how you do this. A discussion on that would be very interesting and very rare. For instance, do you use an excel spreadsheet with a column for high side, mid range, and low side? If so how do you sort to get an overall ranking? Maybe a weighted average? This is the kind of stuff that fascinates me. It is great to talk in very generic terms about projection ranges but I'd love to know how you actually implement this.
 
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show me a draft the were cotchery went in front of Braylon or Reggie Brown.
Cotchery is ranked between the two by CBS...I'll check ESPN.
bad list
I already edited my post for your predictable response.The only redraft rankings I'm aware of that are out are CBS and ESPN, what other suggestions do you have? If you think there is a really good list out there I can start a new poll utilizing those rankings.
Didnt mean to be predictable but as the shark pool vote shows. and even if the SL's around here were non-ppr Braylon and Reggie would still go infront of Cotchery. I was wondering why you posted these three in particular, cause for re-draft purposes, Reggie and Braylon to me clearly have higher upside.
 
This poll is related to the following post that I made in another thread regarding YPC and upside.In general high YPCs are more likely to significantly outperform their draft position because to exceed their previous year's numbers they more than likely just need more targets/receptions. If they have a high YPC there's a good chance the coach will try to get them the ball more the next season, if it's to the tune of 15 receptions you're talking about a significant increase in yards with a high YPC. On the other hand the guy with 80 receptions has nowhere to go but down, especially if he's a #2 WR...only a handfull of offenses get their #2 WR the ball 80 times, and even fewer 90, if any. On the flip side, one can argue that a guy with a high YPC also can drop further because he is unlikely to maintain a high YPC, but that's where you have to use your football knowledge in understanding if the WR is likely to maintain the YPC. Further, because I feel I can pretty much outdraft anyone deep in drafts at the WR position I don't mind taking the high reward high YPC players...especially if I think the risk is low for a drastic drop in YPC.Are you playing for second place or first. If you're playing for second you draft guys like Cotchery, if you're playing for first you draft guys like Reggie Brown or Braylon Edwards...playes that are ranked similary, but have a better YPC and in general a better chance of completely blowing up.A perfect example of why projection rankings are crap to draft from in competitive leagues. You should be projecting ranges for players, not static values. If you're correctly projecting ranges you can give yourself a decided edge over those that are using static projections.This is the most common concept/philsophy/strategy that is missed by "experts." I can spot a true shark a mile away when I seem a team full of high YPC WRs with mitigated risks...or if they project ranges and properly utilize those ranges when drafting a team.
:bye: Nice analysis LHUCKS. My 2 cents are:1) Most likely, these guys are being drafted in Round 8 or later, so the upside is much more desirable, and I see it in Edwards and Brown more than Cotchery.2) when I draft, I like my 1st couple of picks to be a consistent performer over one with a ton of upside, as these players can kill your season if they bust. In this case, a static projection is perfectly acceptableAs you get later in the draft, variance should increase. As LHUCKS implies, if you draft a WR in a later round that, under the best of scenarios, will only get you 65 rec, 900 Yds, and 7 TDs, then you're missing the upside component. This type of WR won't be a WR2 ever. I read in a FF magazine a few years back that if you draft someone that won't be a fantasy starter even if they get a starting job or better opportunity, pass on them.....it's a waste of draft resources. You can get someone like this off the waiver wire all the time, especially at the WR position.3) to see if the YPC can be maintained, you need to look at each reception. Is the high YPC skewed by a couple of 80-yd TD catches that most likely won't be maintained? The lower the variance in YPC, the better chance that WR will maintain his YPC.
 
Didnt mean to be predictable but as the shark pool vote shows.
I guess that came off rather pompous, I was just annoyed that I didn't clarify in my original post.
even if the SL's around here were non-ppr Braylon and Reggie would still go infront of Cotchery.
Survivors are a bit different, depending on your WR strategy.
It's cool, but my bad list comment adding nothing either. Really the three guys you list, are ranked rather close, but given Braylon's QB situation last year and Stallworth gone from Philly and a presumed Healthy McNabb, I kind of thought that the two with the most upside was kind of obvious. Without even looking at YPC.
 
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Did you draft Braylon Edwards?

Who is this year's Braylon Edwards?

 
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