Who is 4th best back in the 2010 Draft? (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

I tend to think we are looking at Dwyer, Hardesty, and Tate in that next tier. How do these guys stack up? To me, Dwyer looked like he's ruining in quicksand. Did he run at the comibine? I'd rank them

Tate

Hardesty

Dwyer

That being said, I've never watched a full game with any of these guys in it so my opinion if from highlights only. But I'd like to learn something about this next tier and I think a lot of casual college fans might benefit from the discussion. I know we have some hard core guys on this board.

 

[Mark Davis]

Assuming we're talking about the RB class only, not other positions or Bryant would be up there. Of this batch I still like Dwyer next. I know his combine looked bad, and while that has dropped him to 4th for me, I still like him better than Hardesty/Tate.

 

[Birdie048]

Eliminating other positions..... I would have to see who landed where to really separate them. Opportuntiy would play a big part of their value.

For example:

Dwyer - SD = Top 3 Rank IMO.

Tate in Oak = Rank 999

Tate in NEP = 5 th

Hardesty - I am starting to like this kid more and more.... hard for me to place him yet.

 

[css2373]

I live in Georgia and I went to an SEC school, so I had the chance to watch all 3 play. I watched Hardesty the most, saw some of Tate's games, and got to see a bunch of Dwyer's games which seemed to always be played Saturday night. I do not have a great feel for RB's, but here goes.

A good friend of mine went to Tennessee and every time we talked he always mentioned Hardesty and was waiting for him to breakthrough. I never saw it until this year...282 carries 1345 yards 13 TD's with a shaky o-line and passing game. He really came on this year and what I did notice was he plays behind his pads which is important for that position. I am not sure if he has the top end speed to break long TD runs or if he will be a plodder but he did run a 4.49 40 and had a 6.87 3-cone drill at 6' and 225 lbs. I will watch to see which team takes him, because I feel that with a good o-line and coaching he could be good, don't think he will be great.

Another buddy of mine went to Auburn and was always dissapointed with Tate, don't know if it was the coaching changes, offensive philosophy changes or what, but his production never seemed to match his name until this year (just like Hardesty). He had 1362 yards, 5.2 ypc and 10 TD's with no QB to speak of. He blew up at the combine with a 4.36 40 and a 6.91 3-cone drill. I feel that for a team that runs a one cut, zone blocking scheme he could do well. Again, I think that he will need a good veteran team and strong coach to keep him engaged for him to reach his potential as he can underachieve.

I enjoy watching Dwyer run, and he has posted 2 huge back to back years of 1395 yards, double digit TD's and each year over 5 yards a carry, however this is against very weak ACC defenses. In the Orange Bowl, he was held in check against Iowa which could be played up to good coaching against Tech's triple option. He is a big back, DOWN to 229 lbs at the combine and ran in the high 4.5's (so did Moreno last year which you can read however you chose). I haven't been able to find his 3 cone drill which I believe tells alot about a RB's quickness and balance.

When I look at college production (factor in their team's well being and the level of defenses they face), what I see when they carry the ball...do they have balance, can they plant with each leg and make a cut with burst, do they run behind their pads or are they upright waiting for injury, and how does their 3 cone drill and shuttle drills match up with others RB's their size, I would rank these 3:

1) Dwyer

2) Hardesty

3) Tate

I would be really interested if Washington uses a 3 round pick on Hardesty though.

 

[Sabertooth]

I wasn't expecting Hardesty to be as big as he is. He looks tall in pads but I was surprised he carried that much weight.

 

[doowain]

Can I drop Best from the "Top 3"? If so, I move Dwyer to 3 and Tate to 4.

 

[thevidon]

I will go out on a limb and say Anthony Dixon (assuming he goes to a decent situation). He looked smooth, powerful and explosive at the combine. He even displayed good hands which is a nice bonus in backs his size.

Any other takers for Dixon at 4'th?

Alternatively I really like Gerhart at 4 as well.

 

[No Way Jose]

Hardesty.....He was stuck behind Foster early in his career and Fulmer preferred Foster, probably helped him get fired due to his fumbling in important games. Hardesty also had a nagging ankle injury and struggled to stay healthy early in his career. No one will out work Hardesty and he holds on to the ball. Situation will be important to his success. If he can stay healthy, I like his chances....but then again I am a homer....so takes this with a grain of salt.

 

[finito]

Hardesty has been rising for me. Depends where he goes, but I've bumped him up, I like him a lot.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Hardesty is a star in the making, a complete back that can wear down a defense and break off big plays. Durability is his biggest issue.

check out my RB rankings for more - http://draftguys.com

 

[footballguy#1]

Hardesty is a star in the making, a complete back that can wear down a defense and break off big plays. Durability is his biggest issue.

check out my RB rankings for more - http://draftguys.com

Kind of a surprise who you have at #1. Is that likely to change or you keeping him there?

 

[MAC_32]

I will go out on a limb and say Anthony Dixon (assuming he goes to a decent situation). He looked smooth, powerful and explosive at the combine. He even displayed good hands which is a nice bonus in backs his size. Any other takers for Dixon at 4'th?Alternatively I really like Gerhart at 4 as well.

I don't have Dixon 4th...I have him 3rd, with Toby directly behind him.I realize I am the minority but I don't think Spiller has much feature back potential, if I'm looking for a #1 I want Dixon, Toby, Tate, and Hardesty before him. If I'm looking for a play maker to take 15 touches (max) per game then I would dial up Spiller first, just depends on the team. Houston's RB draft board (Spiller - 7th) and San Fran's (Spiller - 3rd) should look significantly different.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Gerhart.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Hardesty is a star in the making, a complete back that can wear down a defense and break off big plays. Durability is his biggest issue.

check out my RB rankings for more - http://draftguys.com

Kind of a surprise who you have at #1. Is that likely to change or you keeping him there?

I look at and adjust my rankings each week. They are done off of extensive film study and notes I've been taking about these guys all the way through college. Yes, I do factor in such things like a slow 40 at the combine - but there are no knee jerk reactions.

 

[Faust]

Hardesty is a star in the making, a complete back that can wear down a defense and break off big plays. Durability is his biggest issue.

check out my RB rankings for more - http://draftguys.com

Kind of a surprise who you have at #1. Is that likely to change or you keeping him there?

I look at and adjust my rankings each week. They are done off of extensive film study and notes I've been taking about these guys all the way through college. Yes, I do factor in such things like a slow 40 at the combine - but there are no knee jerk reactions.

I am interested in your ranking of Ryan Matthews, as he has seen his stock jump in several places to the point where many have him as the # 2 RB behind CJ Spiller

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Hardesty is a star in the making, a complete back that can wear down a defense and break off big plays. Durability is his biggest issue.

check out my RB rankings for more - http://draftguys.com

Kind of a surprise who you have at #1. Is that likely to change or you keeping him there?

I look at and adjust my rankings each week. They are done off of extensive film study and notes I've been taking about these guys all the way through college. Yes, I do factor in such things like a slow 40 at the combine - but there are no knee jerk reactions.

I am interested in your ranking of Ryan Matthews, as he has seen his stock jump in several places to the point where many have him as the # 2 RB behind CJ Spiller

Mathews is likely to creep up my rankings, but I don't see him as a special back.

Very strong, sound runner ala Ryan Grant - just not a lot of "wow" factor. Doesn't mean he couldn't be a workhorse for some team, but I see him as more of a 1,200 yard guy for his career. Special backs get 1,500 plus.

Remember my Draftguys rankings are NOT fantasy rankings.

 

[moderated]

Gerhart.

not sure why this guy isn't getting respect.He's an Eddie George clone and can be a 300 carry RB in the NFL.

 

[EBF]

I still think it's probably Dwyer assuming he has the work ethic to maximize his talent.

I have Gerhart/Tate/Hardesty lumped into the next tier.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Hardesty is a star in the making, a complete back that can wear down a defense and break off big plays. Durability is his biggest issue.

check out my RB rankings for more - http://draftguys.com

Kind of a surprise who you have at #1. Is that likely to change or you keeping him there?

I look at and adjust my rankings each week. They are done off of extensive film study and notes I've been taking about these guys all the way through college. Yes, I do factor in such things like a slow 40 at the combine - but there are no knee jerk reactions.

I am interested in your ranking of Ryan Matthews, as he has seen his stock jump in several places to the point where many have him as the # 2 RB behind CJ Spiller

Mathews is likely to creep up my rankings, but I don't see him as a special back.

Very strong, sound runner ala Ryan Grant - just not a lot of "wow" factor. Doesn't mean he couldn't be a workhorse for some team, but I see him as more of a 1,200 yard guy for his career. Special backs get 1,500 plus.

Remember my Draftguys rankings are NOT fantasy rankings.

Three 60+ yards vs Boise State isn't "wow"

100 yards rushing in every game but the one he was hurt in last year.....how did Spiller do? lol

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Mathews is likely to creep up my rankings, but I don't see him as a special back. Very strong, sound runner ala Ryan Grant - just not a lot of "wow" factor. Doesn't mean he couldn't be a workhorse for some team, but I see him as more of a 1,200 yard guy for his career. Special backs get 1,500 plus. Remember my Draftguys rankings are NOT fantasy rankings.

Three 60+ yards vs Boise State isn't "wow"100 yards rushing in every game but the one he was hurt in last year.....how did Spiller do? lol

Do you really need to do this in every thread? We get it, you want Spiller to drop to you in some league. Fine. Enough already.

 

[Righetti]

Gerhart.

not sure why this guy isn't getting respect.

He's an Eddie George clone and can be a 300 carry RB in the NFL.

one guess

 

[Pauli Walnuts]

Gerhart.

not sure why this guy isn't getting respect.

He's an Eddie George clone and can be a 300 carry RB in the NFL.

one guess

Um...wait..I got it...nope, I give up.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Mathews is likely to creep up my rankings, but I don't see him as a special back. Very strong, sound runner ala Ryan Grant - just not a lot of "wow" factor. Doesn't mean he couldn't be a workhorse for some team, but I see him as more of a 1,200 yard guy for his career. Special backs get 1,500 plus. Remember my Draftguys rankings are NOT fantasy rankings.

Three 60+ yards vs Boise State isn't "wow"100 yards rushing in every game but the one he was hurt in last year.....how did Spiller do? lol

Do you really need to do this in every thread? We get it, you want Spiller to drop to you in some league. Fine. Enough already.

CJ Spiller will not be on any of my teams...unless Mathews and Bryant are gone.

 

[jdswan922]

Gerhart.

not sure why this guy isn't getting respect.

He's an Eddie George clone and can be a 300 carry RB in the NFL.

one guess

I cannot get the light to go on in my head. Is it the pale ale? The blankness is ghostly.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Gerhart.

not sure why this guy isn't getting respect.

He's an Eddie George clone and can be a 300 carry RB in the NFL.

one guess

I cannot get the light to go on in my head. Is it the pale ale? The blankness is ghostly.

Honestly are these reverse racism charges about Gerhart something the Tea Party dreamed up? Some people think he'll be decent but lots of people don't like him for legitimate reasons, like not great wiggle or moves and not much of a second gear. Plus backs that take a lot of hits are always downgraded anyway. I don't see the here at all.

 

[coolnerd]

Gerhart.

not sure why this guy isn't getting respect.

He's an Eddie George clone and can be a 300 carry RB in the NFL.

one guess

I cannot get the light to go on in my head. Is it the pale ale? The blankness is ghostly.

Honestly are these reverse racism charges about Gerhart something the Tea Party dreamed up? Some people think he'll be decent but lots of people don't like him for legitimate reasons, like not great wiggle or moves and not much of a second gear. Plus backs that take a lot of hits are always downgraded anyway. I don't see the here at all.

I think he and Anthony Dixon are pretty comparable in terms of skills,style and production and go figure are rated about the same., but there is no outcry about Mr. dixon. Are there people who downgrade Gerhart for race.? Of course, just like thee are people who want to see him succeed because of race also.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Honestly are these reverse racism charges about Gerhart something the Tea Party dreamed up? Some people think he'll be decent but lots of people don't like him for legitimate reasons, like not great wiggle or moves and not much of a second gear. Plus backs that take a lot of hits are always downgraded anyway. I don't see the here at all.

I think he and Anthony Dixon are pretty comparable in terms of skills,style and production and go figure are rated about the same., but there is no outcry about Mr. dixon. Are there people who downgrade Gerhart for race.? Of course, just like thee are people who want to see him succeed because of race also.

True, although one thing that I think Dixon is a lot better at is getting a low pad level and making himself small in the hole. But I certainly understand bias. Just don't see a big conspiracy.

 

[D'OHtis]

1) Spiller

2) Dwyer

3) Matthews

Perhaps Best. I don't downgrade Dwyer because he doesn't look like a gladiator in Under Armor. I think someone's going to get a steal much like the Jets did with Greene in Round 3.

 

[Sabertooth]

1) Spiller2) Dwyer3) MatthewsPerhaps Best. I don't downgrade Dwyer because he doesn't look like a gladiator in Under Armor. I think someone's going to get a steal much like the Jets did with Greene in Round 3.

Watching highlights of him, he just looks like he's got lead shoes on. Plodding is the best word I can think of right now. He's got power, but that simply isn't enough. Lendale-esque, but seems slower.

 

[D'OHtis]

1) Spiller2) Dwyer3) MatthewsPerhaps Best. I don't downgrade Dwyer because he doesn't look like a gladiator in Under Armor. I think someone's going to get a steal much like the Jets did with Greene in Round 3.

Watching highlights of him, he just looks like he's got lead shoes on. Plodding is the best word I can think of right now. He's got power, but that simply isn't enough. Lendale-esque, but seems slower.

I think he plays faster on the field than Matthews personally with more power I'm not entirely crazy on Matthews. I think he's more of a replaceable RB type (Forte). I just don't see Best and Co. as even possible lead backs or I'd rank them above Matthews. Haven't seen much of the guy from Tennessee that seems to be gaining some steam.

 

[Jason Wood]

I think Gerhart is interesting, but needs to be in the right offense. To me, Hardesty has the makings of an all around star in any offense.

 

[Invictus~Bronte]

1) Spiller2) Dwyer3) MatthewsPerhaps Best. I don't downgrade Dwyer because he doesn't look like a gladiator in Under Armor. I think someone's going to get a steal much like the Jets did with Greene in Round 3.

Watching highlights of him, he just looks like he's got lead shoes on. Plodding is the best word I can think of right now. He's got power, but that simply isn't enough. Lendale-esque, but seems slower.

I think he plays faster on the field than Matthews personally with more power I'm not entirely crazy on Matthews. I think he's more of a replaceable RB type (Forte). I just don't see Best and Co. as even possible lead backs or I'd rank them above Matthews. Haven't seen much of the guy from Tennessee that seems to be gaining some steam.

Dwyer better end up in a damn good situation for my taste. Seems to get slower every time I watch him

 

[offdee]

1) Spiller

2) Dwyer

3) Matthews

Perhaps Best. I don't downgrade Dwyer because he doesn't look like a gladiator in Under Armor. I think someone's going to get a steal much like the Jets did with Greene in Round 3.

Watching highlights of him, he just looks like he's got lead shoes on. Plodding is the best word I can think of right now. He's got power, but that simply isn't enough. Lendale-esque, but seems slower.

I think he plays faster on the field than Matthews personally with more power I'm not entirely crazy on Matthews. I think he's more of a replaceable RB type (Forte). I just don't see Best and Co. as even possible lead backs or I'd rank them above Matthews. Haven't seen much of the guy from Tennessee that seems to be gaining some steam.

Dwyer better end up in a damn good situation for my taste. Seems to get slower every time I watch him

OK, I know Dwyer had a less than spectacular combine, but all of this talk that he plays slow is just incorrect. I agree with the above poster that his playing speed is faster than Mathews from all that I've watched. See below runs at:

:33

:50

1:58

2:43

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9Yme2gczU

 

[Toads]

After watching the UTube's of the top four, it's a moot point.

It all comes down as to where they land in the draft.

The top four all all looking pretty good.

 

[thevidon]

Honestly are these reverse racism charges about Gerhart something the Tea Party dreamed up? Some people think he'll be decent but lots of people don't like him for legitimate reasons, like not great wiggle or moves and not much of a second gear. Plus backs that take a lot of hits are always downgraded anyway. I don't see the here at all.

Funny, but I didn't see Moreno getting knocked for lacking a second gear as he lollygagged his way to a 4.62 at the combine last year. I firmly believe that if Gerhart was black he would be ranked as a first round lock given his production and measurables. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but that's how I see it.Edit - also way to bring up the tea party and backhand slander it at the same time. Classy.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Honestly are these reverse racism charges about Gerhart something the Tea Party dreamed up? Some people think he'll be decent but lots of people don't like him for legitimate reasons, like not great wiggle or moves and not much of a second gear. Plus backs that take a lot of hits are always downgraded anyway. I don't see the here at all.

Funny, but I didn't see Moreno getting knocked for lacking a second gear as he lollygagged his way to a 4.62 at the combine last year. I firmly believe that if Gerhart was black he would be ranked as a first round lock given his production and measurables. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but that's how I see it.Edit - also way to bring up the tea party and backhand slander it at the same time. Classy.

I think I've seen enough of your posts to know that I should just put you on ignore because you contribute nothing here. My mistake for not doing it sooner.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I don't think any of the backs this year are slam dunks.

Matthews is probably the lowest risk, but I can't place his ceiling. I don't think it's off the charts good, but I'm not sure about that either.

Spiller and Best are both good prospects, but they're also both tiny. Chris Johnson and Jamaal Charles? Or Reggie Bush and Darren McFadden? Who knows, but there's size-related risk IMO.

And the gap between Dwyer's college production and his combine performance is larger than anyone in the last ten years not named LaGarrette Blount (both very odd IMO). I have no idea how to weight the two components when they're so extremely at odds.

Without knowing where they go I think I'd rate them: Matthews, Spiller, Dwyer, Best

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I don't think any of the backs this year are slam dunks.Matthews is probably the lowest risk, but I can't place his ceiling. I don't think it's off the charts good, but I'm not sure about that either.Spiller and Best are both good prospects, but they're also both tiny. Chris Johnson and Jamaal Charles? Or Reggie Bush and Darren McFadden? Who knows, but there's size-related risk IMO.And the gap between Dwyer's college production and his combine performance is larger than anyone in the last ten years not named LaGarrette Blount (both very odd IMO). I have no idea how to weight the two components when they're so extremely at odds.Without knowing where they go I think I'd rate them: Matthews, Spiller, Dwyer, Best

Good post. I agree for the most part. I think that Spiller has a higher ceiling but lower floor than Mathews. I think if you're risk adverse, you take Mathews. If you like to go for the home run, you take Spiller. Most people are pretty risk adverse in the first round, so I think that you'll see Mathews ahead of Spiller in most drafts. Regarding Dwyer, the one knock on him I've heard throughout his career is that he doesn't stay very well conditioned. It's not really a case of taking plays off, like you see from some players. Just that he doesn't stay in great shape. So I sort of expected him to under perform at the combine, although he was worse than I expected. The question is whether that will either wake him up, or a NFL team/coach will keep him/force him to be in shape. He's not a bad kid or a dumb kid, so I'm guessing he'll be OK. But I would probably jump Best ahead of him to 3 if he went somewhere with a good opportunity.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I don't think any of the backs this year are slam dunks.Matthews is probably the lowest risk, but I can't place his ceiling. I don't think it's off the charts good, but I'm not sure about that either.Spiller and Best are both good prospects, but they're also both tiny. Chris Johnson and Jamaal Charles? Or Reggie Bush and Darren McFadden? Who knows, but there's size-related risk IMO.And the gap between Dwyer's college production and his combine performance is larger than anyone in the last ten years not named LaGarrette Blount (both very odd IMO). I have no idea how to weight the two components when they're so extremely at odds.Without knowing where they go I think I'd rate them: Matthews, Spiller, Dwyer, Best

Also wanted to add that I know you used to factor age in a lot and among these 4, Mathews and Spiller are old and Dwyer and Best are young. Do you still look at that metric?

 

[Jason Wood]

I know this isn't what the thread is about, but I would be petrified at using my top pick on Spiller this year. Not only is he small, but the injuries are already mounting. I just don't know if I have any faith he'll have a full career that would justify banking your fantasy rookie draft on him.

 

[moderated]

I know this isn't what the thread is about, but I would be petrified at using my top pick on Spiller this year. Not only is he small, but the injuries are already mounting. I just don't know if I have any faith he'll have a full career that would justify banking your fantasy rookie draft on him.

Spiller never missed a game in his college career. He had a foot injury this past season and played through it. He's the least injured of the top backs coming out.what in the world are you talking about, "the injuries are already mounting?"

 

[Jason Wood]

I know this isn't what the thread is about, but I would be petrified at using my top pick on Spiller this year. Not only is he small, but the injuries are already mounting. I just don't know if I have any faith he'll have a full career that would justify banking your fantasy rookie draft on him.

Spiller never missed a game in his college career. He had a foot injury this past season and played through it. He's the least injured of the top backs coming out.what in the world are you talking about, "the injuries are already mounting?"

Toe and hamstring injuries, exactly the kind of thing you would expect and fear of a smallish back. Like I said, I'm not condemning the kid. If he's healthy he'll likely be dynamite. I just don't know I would feel good about rebuilding my dynasty team with him b/c he's going to be a 12-15 touch guy, IMHO.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I know this isn't what the thread is about, but I would be petrified at using my top pick on Spiller this year. Not only is he small, but the injuries are already mounting. I just don't know if I have any faith he'll have a full career that would justify banking your fantasy rookie draft on him.

Spiller never missed a game in his college career. He had a foot injury this past season and played through it. He's the least injured of the top backs coming out.

what in the world are you talking about, "the injuries are already mounting?"

Toe and hamstring injuries, exactly the kind of thing you would expect and fear of a smallish back. Like I said, I'm not condemning the kid. If he's healthy he'll likely be dynamite. I just don't know I would feel good about rebuilding my dynasty team with him b/c he's going to be a 12-15 touch guy, IMHO.

Wait, what? If you said "speed back" there, I could buy it. But what does physical size have to do with toes and hamstrings?

 

[Jason Wood]

I know this isn't what the thread is about, but I would be petrified at using my top pick on Spiller this year. Not only is he small, but the injuries are already mounting. I just don't know if I have any faith he'll have a full career that would justify banking your fantasy rookie draft on him.

Spiller never missed a game in his college career. He had a foot injury this past season and played through it. He's the least injured of the top backs coming out.

what in the world are you talking about, "the injuries are already mounting?"

Toe and hamstring injuries, exactly the kind of thing you would expect and fear of a smallish back. Like I said, I'm not condemning the kid. If he's healthy he'll likely be dynamite. I just don't know I would feel good about rebuilding my dynasty team with him b/c he's going to be a 12-15 touch guy, IMHO.

Wait, what? If you said "speed back" there, I could buy it. But what does physical size have to do with toes and hamstrings?

Small, speed back. Take your pick. Again, I'm hardly the only person out there who fears Spiller's durability. That said, that's not what this thread is about. He's still going to be the top back taken, so let's get back to the 4th best back.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I know this isn't what the thread is about, but I would be petrified at using my top pick on Spiller this year. Not only is he small, but the injuries are already mounting. I just don't know if I have any faith he'll have a full career that would justify banking your fantasy rookie draft on him.

Spiller never missed a game in his college career. He had a foot injury this past season and played through it. He's the least injured of the top backs coming out.

what in the world are you talking about, "the injuries are already mounting?"

Toe and hamstring injuries, exactly the kind of thing you would expect and fear of a smallish back. Like I said, I'm not condemning the kid. If he's healthy he'll likely be dynamite. I just don't know I would feel good about rebuilding my dynasty team with him b/c he's going to be a 12-15 touch guy, IMHO.

Wait, what? If you said "speed back" there, I could buy it. But what does physical size have to do with toes and hamstrings?

Small, speed back. Take your pick. Again, I'm hardly the only person out there who fears Spiller's durability. That said, that's not what this thread is about. He's still going to be the top back taken, so let's get back to the 4th best back.

OK, I don't think they're exactly the same, ie MJD. But point made. Who do you have as the 4th best RB?

 

[EBF]

Honestly are these reverse racism charges about Gerhart something the Tea Party dreamed up? Some people think he'll be decent but lots of people don't like him for legitimate reasons, like not great wiggle or moves and not much of a second gear. Plus backs that take a lot of hits are always downgraded anyway. I don't see the here at all.

Funny, but I didn't see Moreno getting knocked for lacking a second gear as he lollygagged his way to a 4.62 at the combine last year. I firmly believe that if Gerhart was black he would be ranked as a first round lock given his production and measurables. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but that's how I see it.Edit - also way to bring up the tea party and backhand slander it at the same time. Classy.

Shonn Greene?Doak Winner. 100+ yards in every game.

Third round pick.

It's really not about race.

 

[thevidon]

Honestly are these reverse racism charges about Gerhart something the Tea Party dreamed up? Some people think he'll be decent but lots of people don't like him for legitimate reasons, like not great wiggle or moves and not much of a second gear. Plus backs that take a lot of hits are always downgraded anyway. I don't see the here at all.

Funny, but I didn't see Moreno getting knocked for lacking a second gear as he lollygagged his way to a 4.62 at the combine last year. I firmly believe that if Gerhart was black he would be ranked as a first round lock given his production and measurables. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but that's how I see it.Edit - also way to bring up the tea party and backhand slander it at the same time. Classy.

Shonn Greene?Doak Winner. 100+ yards in every game.

Third round pick.

It's really not about race.

Greene ran a 4.63 (to Gerharts 4.53) and was beaten in the bench (19 v 22) and vertical (37 v 38) also. He did beat Gerhart in the broad jump (10'1 v 9'10). I admit that its close enough to be a valid comparison, so point taken. I still feel Gerhart is being undervalued due to his race though. What round would you place Gerhart in EBF?Gerhart also displayed very impressive hands for a back his size at the combine, catching the ball away from his body with very few (if any) drops.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

OK, I know Dwyer had a less than spectacular combine, but all of this talk that he plays slow is just incorrect. I agree with the above poster that his playing speed is faster than Mathews from all that I've watched.

See below runs at:

:33

:50

1:58

2:43

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9Yme2gczU

I just watched all 4 runs that you suggested. While Dwyer displays breakaway speed once he gets through a hole, he takes a long time to get going. Ron Dayne was similar in college. I don't see evidence that he has quick burst speed in traffic.....which for a RB seems more important to me than track speed when running untouched through a massive hole in the OL.

 

[EBF]

Honestly are these reverse racism charges about Gerhart something the Tea Party dreamed up? Some people think he'll be decent but lots of people don't like him for legitimate reasons, like not great wiggle or moves and not much of a second gear. Plus backs that take a lot of hits are always downgraded anyway. I don't see the here at all.

Funny, but I didn't see Moreno getting knocked for lacking a second gear as he lollygagged his way to a 4.62 at the combine last year. I firmly believe that if Gerhart was black he would be ranked as a first round lock given his production and measurables. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but that's how I see it.Edit - also way to bring up the tea party and backhand slander it at the same time. Classy.

Shonn Greene?Doak Winner. 100+ yards in every game.

Third round pick.

It's really not about race.

Greene ran a 4.63 (to Gerharts 4.53) and was beaten in the bench (19 v 22) and vertical (37 v 38) also. He did beat Gerhart in the broad jump (10'1 v 9'10). I admit that its close enough to be a valid comparison, so point taken. I still feel Gerhart is being undervalued due to his race though. What round would you place Gerhart in EBF?Gerhart also displayed very impressive hands for a back his size at the combine, catching the ball away from his body with very few (if any) drops.

Greene improved to a 4.55 40 and a 39" vertical at his pro day. All in all I would say he had a more impressive set of workout numbers than Gerhart. He still fell to the first pick in the third round. Why? Because NFL teams don't like to spend premium picks on two-down power backs. All the people crying race should consider the fact that Marion Barber, Shonn Greene, Rudi Johnson, Michael Turner, and Brandon Jacobs all fell out of the top two rounds. It isn't a matter of race. NFL teams don't overpay for pounders. As I've said in other threads, I follow the Stanford football program pretty closely. My parents have season tickets and I have been going to the games for 10+ years. I have seen Gerhart play in person three times in the past two seasons (vs. USC, ASU, Oklahoma). I don't think he's a first round RB. He's one-dimensional (very limited in the receiving game) and he doesn't have great wiggle or explosiveness.

That said, I think he's a solid "thunder" type back with excellent power and underrated footwork behind his blockers. I don't like him as an every down back, but I think he would be effective in a committee receiving 10-15 carries per game. I think he's probably a 2nd-4th round value in the NFL draft depending on team need.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

To me, Hardesty has the makings of an all around star in any offense.

I've seen a few people with this opinion. I can't get past that he spent 4 of his 5 years at Tennessee playing (worse) behind Foster, who I'm sure very few would give a mid round 1st for him. What now makes Hardesty better than Foster? Is it his combine performance? He just seems like a one year wonder to me.