Who is the front runner to win the NFL MVP? (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

Rivers' Y/A is significantly higher than Favre's, but does that really outweigh Favre's additional 5 TDs and 3 fewer TOs?

DVOA says YESThe Charger's passing offense is #1 and it's not even close.

What makes this even more remarkable is that their rushing offense ranks #30, so Rivers is getting ZERO help from a credible running game to take the pressure off.

Not only is their rushing #30, their defense is #25 and their special teams is #23.

This is a downright BAD team, EXCEPT for the minor fact that they're currently the #2 seed in the AFC.

A truly remarkable achievement that shows just how dominant Rivers the Chargers passing attack has been

Fixed.

 

[Chase Stuart]

If I was ranking the QB's stats, I'd go:1) Brees2) Rivers3) Manning4) FavreRivers has an incredible INT rate and is averaging nearly 9 yards per pass, which is why I'd now put him ahead of the other two.Moving past the stats, I don't use the "how would team X do without this player", because a player shouldn't be penalized for being on a good team. I look at MVP as best player. Who has the best weapons of this bunch? WRs/OL/pass catching RBs/TEs? That's really tough to say. Manning has the best 1-2 (Wayne-Clark), but maybe the least deep bunch. Brees definitely has the deepest crew. Rivers has some great targets and an okay offensive line. Favre has some great playmakers but not necessarily any polished receivers. I'm not sure how to rank the OLs or the offensive weapons as a whole. Because of that, I'd put Brees as my MVP.

I'd obviously love to see Rivers win MVP, but even I have a hard time putting him above Favre at this point. Rivers' Y/A is significantly higher than Favre's, but does that really outweigh Favre's additional 5 TDs and 3 fewer TOs?

Put it another way, do Favre's 0.004 fewer interceptions per attempt and 0.009 greater passing touchdowns per attempt offset Rivers' 1.0 additional yards per attempt?

 

[Phase of the Game]

If I was ranking the QB's stats, I'd go:1) Brees2) Rivers3) Manning4) FavreRivers has an incredible INT rate and is averaging nearly 9 yards per pass, which is why I'd now put him ahead of the other two.Moving past the stats, I don't use the "how would team X do without this player", because a player shouldn't be penalized for being on a good team. I look at MVP as best player. Who has the best weapons of this bunch? WRs/OL/pass catching RBs/TEs? That's really tough to say. Manning has the best 1-2 (Wayne-Clark), but maybe the least deep bunch. Brees definitely has the deepest crew. Rivers has some great targets and an okay offensive line. Favre has some great playmakers but not necessarily any polished receivers. I'm not sure how to rank the OLs or the offensive weapons as a whole. Because of that, I'd put Brees as my MVP.

I'd obviously love to see Rivers win MVP, but even I have a hard time putting him above Favre at this point. Rivers' Y/A is significantly higher than Favre's, but does that really outweigh Favre's additional 5 TDs and 3 fewer TOs?

Put it another way, do Favre's 0.004 fewer interceptions per attempt and 0.009 greater passing touchdowns per attempt offset Rivers' 1.0 additional yards per attempt?

There are times you need to get away from those damn stats and use some common sense.

 

[Chase Stuart]

If I was ranking the QB's stats, I'd go:1) Brees2) Rivers3) Manning4) FavreRivers has an incredible INT rate and is averaging nearly 9 yards per pass, which is why I'd now put him ahead of the other two.Moving past the stats, I don't use the "how would team X do without this player", because a player shouldn't be penalized for being on a good team. I look at MVP as best player. Who has the best weapons of this bunch? WRs/OL/pass catching RBs/TEs? That's really tough to say. Manning has the best 1-2 (Wayne-Clark), but maybe the least deep bunch. Brees definitely has the deepest crew. Rivers has some great targets and an okay offensive line. Favre has some great playmakers but not necessarily any polished receivers. I'm not sure how to rank the OLs or the offensive weapons as a whole. Because of that, I'd put Brees as my MVP.

I'd obviously love to see Rivers win MVP, but even I have a hard time putting him above Favre at this point. Rivers' Y/A is significantly higher than Favre's, but does that really outweigh Favre's additional 5 TDs and 3 fewer TOs?

Put it another way, do Favre's 0.004 fewer interceptions per attempt and 0.009 greater passing touchdowns per attempt offset Rivers' 1.0 additional yards per attempt?

There are times you need to get away from those damn stats and use some common sense.

Are TDs and interceptions not stats until you divide them by attempts?

 

[Phase of the Game]

If I was ranking the QB's stats, I'd go:1) Brees2) Rivers3) Manning4) FavreRivers has an incredible INT rate and is averaging nearly 9 yards per pass, which is why I'd now put him ahead of the other two.Moving past the stats, I don't use the "how would team X do without this player", because a player shouldn't be penalized for being on a good team. I look at MVP as best player. Who has the best weapons of this bunch? WRs/OL/pass catching RBs/TEs? That's really tough to say. Manning has the best 1-2 (Wayne-Clark), but maybe the least deep bunch. Brees definitely has the deepest crew. Rivers has some great targets and an okay offensive line. Favre has some great playmakers but not necessarily any polished receivers. I'm not sure how to rank the OLs or the offensive weapons as a whole. Because of that, I'd put Brees as my MVP.

I'd obviously love to see Rivers win MVP, but even I have a hard time putting him above Favre at this point. Rivers' Y/A is significantly higher than Favre's, but does that really outweigh Favre's additional 5 TDs and 3 fewer TOs?

Put it another way, do Favre's 0.004 fewer interceptions per attempt and 0.009 greater passing touchdowns per attempt offset Rivers' 1.0 additional yards per attempt?

There are times you need to get away from those damn stats and use some common sense.

Are TDs and interceptions not stats until you divide them by attempts?

Thanks for proving my point, Chase.

 

[Chaka]

Rivers' Y/A is significantly higher than Favre's, but does that really outweigh Favre's additional 5 TDs and 3 fewer TOs?

DVOA says YESThe Charger's passing offense is #1 and it's not even close.

What makes this even more remarkable is that their rushing offense ranks #30, so Rivers is getting ZERO help from a credible running game to take the pressure off.

Not only is their rushing #30, their defense is #25 and their special teams is #23.

This is a downright BAD team, EXCEPT for the minor fact that they're currently the #2 seed in the AFC.

A truly remarkable achievement that shows just how dominant Rivers the Chargers passing attack has been

Fixed.

Really?

 

[kaa]

You know Rivers really has the Eye of the Tiger for lack of a better phrase. The more I look at this guy, the more I think there's jewelry in this guy's future, possibly the immediately future. I think he's going to go down as the best player they've ever had.

 

[djcolts]

It drives me crazy that a candidate starts getting a lot of buzz after they beat up on the Clevelands, KCs, Seattles and Chicagos in this league. Rivers will prove to be a 2009 MVP candidate in the next two weeks - and to me, not before then. Favre's candidacy went back to earth after playing a "real" team. I think Rivers can do better in the next two weeks than Favre did last week - but I want to actually see it first. Until then - Brees is the MVP to me right now.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Manning. Without him that team isn't .500.

And the Saints would be with Brunell pulling the trigger?

 

[sho nuff]

Manning. Without him that team isn't .500.

And the Saints would be with Brunell pulling the trigger?

We can play that game with most starters.What would the Packers be like with Matt Flynn playing QB?BTW...Im not saying Rodgers is in there.IMO...he is right behind Rivers (Rivers creeping up and approaching Favre for #3 right now)...well, behind Chris Johnson a bit too. But if Johnson does not get to 2000 and they finish with a losing record, Rodgers is ahead of him if they win at least 2 more games and get to the playoffs.

 

[Mainevent]

What would the Raiders be with Russell starting?

 

[craxie]

It drives me crazy that a candidate starts getting a lot of buzz after they beat up on the Clevelands, KCs, Seattles and Chicagos in this league . . . Favre's candidacy went back to earth after playing a "real" team.

In their 7-game win streak, the Chargers have beat the 8-4 Eagles, the 8-4 Broncos and the 7-5 Giants. Are those not "real" teams?

 

[djcolts]

It drives me crazy that a candidate starts getting a lot of buzz after they beat up on the Clevelands, KCs, Seattles and Chicagos in this league . . . Favre's candidacy went back to earth after playing a "real" team.

In their 7-game win streak, the Chargers have beat the 8-4 Eagles, the 8-4 Broncos and the 7-5 Giants. Are those not "real" teams?

The Rivers for MVP "buzz" has happened after beating KC and the Browns. There was very little buzz before that. Favre's MVP buzz skyrocketed after beating up on the Lions, Seahawks and the DOA Bears. That is my pet peeve.

 

[Chaka]

It drives me crazy that a candidate starts getting a lot of buzz after they beat up on the Clevelands, KCs, Seattles and Chicagos in this league . . . Favre's candidacy went back to earth after playing a "real" team.

In their 7-game win streak, the Chargers have beat the 8-4 Eagles, the 8-4 Broncos and the 7-5 Giants. Are those not "real" teams?

The Rivers for MVP "buzz" has happened after beating KC and the Browns. There was very little buzz before that. Favre's MVP buzz skyrocketed after beating up on the Lions, Seahawks and the DOA Bears. That is my pet peeve.

This is very myopic. MVP candidacy is not started after one or two games. In Rivers case the Cle & KC games were punctuation marks on what has turned out to be a 7 game win streak in which Rivers has performed at an incredibly high level. If he had performed poorly, or the Chargers had lost more than they won before the Cle & KC games there would be no MVP buzz based strictly on those two games.You have to look at the entire body of work not just the most recent one or two games.

 

[djcolts]

Things have changed in 2 weeks. Basically - it comes down to Peyton playing well against the Jets - because right now he'd win in a landslide according to those that vote for MVP:

LINK

Twenty-three of The Associated Press' 50-member panel who vote on the MVP responded to another inquiry from The Indianapolis Star. Manning received 22 first-place votes, with the other going to New Orleans quarterback Drew Brees. Minnesota's Brett Favre, the other three-time MVP who trailed Manning and Brees in a survey earlier this month, has been replaced by San Diego quarterback Philip Rivers as the distant No. 3.

Votes are due Jan. 4, and respondents made clear theirs are subject to change with two weeks left in the regular season.

 

[fsufan]

Chris Johnson has been the best player in the NFL this season.He SHOULD win the MVP.I know he won't.

Manning and Breess play the toughest/most important position in NFL and they are playing it at a high level. and their teams have a total of 1 lose. how can you give it a guy who's team will not even make the playoffs

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yep, it's now a two-horse race between P. Manning and Brees.

Favre is out of the race now because of his recent struggles and the nonsense with Childress over audibles.

Like it or not, Chris Johnson won't get serious consideration, simply because the Titans record has been so much better with Vince Young than it was with Kerry Collins, so voters will wonder who was the Titans true MVP.

 

[FUBAR]

Things have changed in 2 weeks. Basically - it comes down to Peyton playing well against the Jets - because right now he'd win in a landslide according to those that vote for MVP:

LINK

Twenty-three of The Associated Press' 50-member panel who vote on the MVP responded to another inquiry from The Indianapolis Star. Manning received 22 first-place votes, with the other going to New Orleans quarterback Drew Brees. Minnesota's Brett Favre, the other three-time MVP who trailed Manning and Brees in a survey earlier this month, has been replaced by San Diego quarterback Philip Rivers as the distant No. 3.

Votes are due Jan. 4, and respondents made clear theirs are subject to change with two weeks left in the regular season.

If Peyton plays well against the Jets and wins, the award is pretty much locked up.

 

[jonessed]

Peyton is a lock at this point. Favre is definitely out and Brees is barely clinging.

 

[Chaka]

I think Rivers has passed Brees, Favre and Johnson. It's still Manning's to lose though.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Last year, I thought Rivers deserved the MVP, with Brees my #2 and Manning my #3. This year, I'd go Brees, Rivers, Manning.

 

[Your Mom]

Chris Johnson has been the best player in the NFL this season.He SHOULD win the MVP.I know he won't.

Manning and Breess play the toughest/most important position in NFL and they are playing it at a high level. and their teams have a total of 1 lose. how can you give it a guy who's team will not even make the playoffs

Chris Johnson won't win MVP, but he might win Offensive player of the year.

 

[Kimber]

Peyton is a lock at this point. Favre is definitely out and Brees is barely clinging.

It is all but over...Peyton has been the front runner all season, and being the last undefeated team locked it up. I don't even see the voting being close. Manning means more to his team than anyone in the NFL. How many critical situations has Manning marched his team down the field and either won the game or put it out of reach. Manning has had some rough spots, but when it was needed, he was perfect. Even if Brees managed to stay perfect and had better stats than Manning, Manning would probably still get it based on reputation.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Last year, I thought Rivers deserved the MVP, with Brees my #2 and Manning my #3.

On an 8-8 team? Really? Correct me if I am wrong, but the MVP rarely comes from a team that wins less than 10 games, and when that does happen, it is when a player has a historic season that cannot be overlooked (like Barry Sanders in '97). Rivers, while having a great season, did not have one of those seasons.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Last year, I thought Rivers deserved the MVP, with Brees my #2 and Manning my #3.

On an 8-8 team? Really? Correct me if I am wrong, but the MVP rarely comes from a team that wins less than 10 games, and when that does happen, it is when a player has a historic season that cannot be overlooked (like Barry Sanders in '97). Rivers, while having a great season, did not have one of those seasons.

I didn't say I thought Rivers was going to win or the MVP, or that I expected him to win the MVP. Just that I thought he deserved it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Oh, I know. It is just hard to for me to envision a player on an 8-8 team being the league's most valuable player, especially when that player didn't have a historically great season. That is all I am saying.

 

[GiantsRule]

I think the last 3 weeks knocked Favre out of the race while Brees' non-performance vs. Dallas dropped him a few rungs down the ladder. Chris Johnson is intriguing as a candidate but he plays for a potential .500 or lower team and the Titans' recent success may be attributed more to Vince Young than CJ.

It's Peyton's to lose. His interception rate has gone up drastically the last month or so, but he's getting the job done and limiting his frustrations. Unless they really go into the last 2 games half-rearing it ( - sorry mods. Not being able to talk like a 13-year old on this board let alone an adult is a bit frustrating), I think Manning wins it in a landslide. Very good chance of getting it unanimously actually.

 

[rufan]

Manning and Breess play the toughest/most important position in NFL and they are playing it at a high level. and their teams have a total of 1 lose. how can you give it a guy who's team will not even make the playoffs

True, Manning and Brees are playing at a high level, but CJ is playing at a HISTORIC level. If he finishes strong, he will have had arguably the single best year for any RB ever.

 

[Chaka]

Manning and Breess play the toughest/most important position in NFL and they are playing it at a high level. and their teams have a total of 1 lose. how can you give it a guy who's team will not even make the playoffs

True, Manning and Brees are playing at a high level, but CJ is playing at a HISTORIC level. If he finishes strong, he will have had arguably the single best year for any RB ever.

He is putting up special numbers but if he is so valuable why didn't they win without VY in the game? I don't buy the "CJ doesn't play defense" argument either because his offensive numbers were down 62 yards per game without VY. CJ put up 120 ypg without VY and182 ypg with VY.CJ definitely deserves OPOY but if an NFL MVP comes from the Titans this year it should be VY.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Manning and Breess play the toughest/most important position in NFL and they are playing it at a high level. and their teams have a total of 1 lose. how can you give it a guy who's team will not even make the playoffs

True, Manning and Brees are playing at a high level, but CJ is playing at a HISTORIC level. If he finishes strong, he will have had arguably the single best year for any RB ever.

That's an interesting question. When the season's over, I'll run CJ's numbers against the others.Currently, my top five RB seasons of all-time are:

1) O.J. 1975

2) Marshall Faulk 2000

3) Jim Brown 1963

4) Priest Holmes 2002

5) LT 2006

I sort of doubt Johnson will get in there due to the low TD numbers, but he does have good receiving numbers and great rushing numbers, along with only one fumble lost.

Including post-season,

1) TD 1998

2) Faulk 2001

3) OJ 1975

4) LT 2006

5) TD 1997

6) Faulk 2000

7) Brown 63

8) Holmes 02

 

[Chase Stuart]

Manning and Breess play the toughest/most important position in NFL and they are playing it at a high level. and their teams have a total of 1 lose. how can you give it a guy who's team will not even make the playoffs

True, Manning and Brees are playing at a high level, but CJ is playing at a HISTORIC level. If he finishes strong, he will have had arguably the single best year for any RB ever.

He is putting up special numbers but if he is so valuable why didn't they win without VY in the game? I don't buy the "CJ doesn't play defense" argument either because his offensive numbers were down 62 yards per game without VY. CJ put up 120 ypg without VY and182 ypg with VY.CJ definitely deserves OPOY but if an NFL MVP comes from the Titans this year it should be VY.

Yes, because clearly the Titans with Johnson and not Young are worse than the Titans with Young and not Johnson.

 

[Chaka]

Manning and Breess play the toughest/most important position in NFL and they are playing it at a high level. and their teams have a total of 1 lose. how can you give it a guy who's team will not even make the playoffs

True, Manning and Brees are playing at a high level, but CJ is playing at a HISTORIC level. If he finishes strong, he will have had arguably the single best year for any RB ever.

He is putting up special numbers but if he is so valuable why didn't they win without VY in the game? I don't buy the "CJ doesn't play defense" argument either because his offensive numbers were down 62 yards per game without VY. CJ put up 120 ypg without VY and182 ypg with VY.CJ definitely deserves OPOY but if an NFL MVP comes from the Titans this year it should be VY.

Yes, because clearly the Titans with Johnson and not Young are worse than the Titans with Young and not Johnson.

In 2009 Chris Johnson is clearly better with Vince Young at QB than without Vince Young at QB. And clearly the 2009 Titans are better as a team with Vince Young at QB than without Vince Young at QB.Who knows? The 2008 Titans may have gone 16-0 and won the Super Bowl if Vince Young had remained the QB. They were 1-0 in games VY started in 2008 and only 12-4 in games he did not start.Clearly.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Manning and Breess play the toughest/most important position in NFL and they are playing it at a high level. and their teams have a total of 1 lose. how can you give it a guy who's team will not even make the playoffs

True, Manning and Brees are playing at a high level, but CJ is playing at a HISTORIC level. If he finishes strong, he will have had arguably the single best year for any RB ever.

He is putting up special numbers but if he is so valuable why didn't they win without VY in the game? I don't buy the "CJ doesn't play defense" argument either because his offensive numbers were down 62 yards per game without VY. CJ put up 120 ypg without VY and182 ypg with VY.CJ definitely deserves OPOY but if an NFL MVP comes from the Titans this year it should be VY.

Yes, because clearly the Titans with Johnson and not Young are worse than the Titans with Young and not Johnson.

In 2009 Chris Johnson is clearly better with Vince Young at QB than without Vince Young at QB. And clearly the 2009 Titans are better as a team with Vince Young at QB than without Vince Young at QB.Who knows? The 2008 Titans may have gone 16-0 and won the Super Bowl if Vince Young had remained the QB. They were 1-0 in games VY started in 2008 and only 12-4 in games he did not start.Clearly.

True. Young may have also cured cancer had he remained the QB, instead of allowing Tim Tebow to do it months later and steal all the credit.

 

[Chaka]

True. Young may have also cured cancer had he remained the QB, instead of allowing Tim Tebow to do it months later and steal all the credit.

Yes I understand the absurdity of my 2008 argument. I just wanted to head off the "But the Titans were 13-3 last year without VY" argument before it started.

 

[Bri]

One thing seems definite-If Colts go undefeated and Peyton doesn't win it, people will not look back fondly on that.

 

[rufan]

That's an interesting question. When the season's over, I'll run CJ's numbers against the others.

Currently, my top five RB seasons of all-time are:

1) O.J. 1975

2) Marshall Faulk 2000

3) Jim Brown 1963

4) Priest Holmes 2002

5) LT 2006

I sort of doubt Johnson will get in there due to the low TD numbers, but he does have good receiving numbers and great rushing numbers, along with only one fumble lost.

Including post-season,

1) TD 1998

2) Faulk 2001

3) OJ 1975

4) LT 2006

5) TD 1997

6) Faulk 2000

7) Brown 63

8) Holmes 02

I agree, the TD numbers are a little low, but I don't think that is a huge deal, and he will most likely still finish with 15-16 total TDs. Breaking 2000 yards rushing and surpassing Faulk's 2429 yards from scrimmage would be monumental achievements, and even with the TD numbers, would have to place this season at or near the top of the list. Even if you place it in the top 10 all-time, that has to be worthy of MVP consideration...

 

[Mark87]

Favre will not get it after the last few weeks. If the Colts go 16-0, it's hard not giving it to Manning. If Johnson rushes for 2,000 yards, it's hard not to give it to him either

 

[tommyGunZ]

Another masterful performance from Rivers - 21-27 for 264, 2 TDs, and 0 picks. 9.8 YPA and a 132 passer rating.

I think that Peyton Manning is the greatest player in NFL history, but I'm not sure he's having as good of a year as Philip Rivers.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Another masterful performance from Rivers - 21-27 for 264, 2 TDs, and 0 picks. 9.8 YPA and a 132 passer rating. I think that Peyton Manning is the greatest player in NFL history, but I'm not sure he's having as good of a year as Philip Rivers.

With a game in hand, Manning has more yards and more TD's which are two of the more important stats that will be used in determining the better season. Not to mention Manning is also is leading a team to a perfect record so far. Rivers has been awesome but Manning has been out of this world and to think Rivers season has been better than Manning's is not fair to just how great Manning has been.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Another masterful performance from Rivers - 21-27 for 264, 2 TDs, and 0 picks. 9.8 YPA and a 132 passer rating.

I think that Peyton Manning is the greatest player in NFL history, but I'm not sure he's having as good of a year as Philip Rivers.

With a game in hand, Manning has more yards and more TD's which are two of the more important stats that will be used in determining the better season. Not to mention Manning is also is leading a team to a perfect record so far. Rivers has been awesome but Manning has been out of this world and to think Rivers season has been better than Manning's is not fair to just how great Manning has been.

Manning has 61 more pass attempts and 58 more passing yards. Statistically, Rivers is blowing Manning out of the water this season. Now if you're saying they're important stats in the sense that voters will use them, you're probably right. If you're saying they're important in the sense that voters should use them, then I'll strongly disagree. Judging QBs by passing yards and passing TDs is pretty silly considering the availability of other statistics. Manning's averaging 7.6 adjusted net yards per attempt this season. Rivers is at 8.3.

If you want to say Manning's even better than his numbers, or Rivers is worse than his numbers, that's a different argument. I don't see any argument that Manning's numbers are better.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Another masterful performance from Rivers - 21-27 for 264, 2 TDs, and 0 picks. 9.8 YPA and a 132 passer rating. I think that Peyton Manning is the greatest player in NFL history, but I'm not sure he's having as good of a year as Philip Rivers.

With a game in hand, Manning has more yards and more TD's which are two of the more important stats that will be used in determining the better season. Not to mention Manning is also is leading a team to a perfect record so far. Rivers has been awesome but Manning has been out of this world and to think Rivers season has been better than Manning's is not fair to just how great Manning has been.

No doubt - Manning is having a great season and I expect him to win the MVP. And he'll deserve it. Hell, I'd think it deserves it virtually every year.Rivers is right there though. Fewer yards and TDs, but also fewer picks, fewer attempts, and significantly more Y/A as well as a higher passer rating.

 

[agent007]

I think I have to say that Drew Brees has been very valuable this year to the saints. despite the fact that he had some really off weeks in fantasy football that killed me at some crucial times.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Another masterful performance from Rivers - 21-27 for 264, 2 TDs, and 0 picks. 9.8 YPA and a 132 passer rating.

I think that Peyton Manning is the greatest player in NFL history, but I'm not sure he's having as good of a year as Philip Rivers.

With a game in hand, Manning has more yards and more TD's which are two of the more important stats that will be used in determining the better season. Not to mention Manning is also is leading a team to a perfect record so far. Rivers has been awesome but Manning has been out of this world and to think Rivers season has been better than Manning's is not fair to just how great Manning has been.

Manning has 61 more pass attempts and 58 more passing yards. Statistically, Rivers is blowing Manning out of the water this season. Now if you're saying they're important stats in the sense that voters will use them, you're probably right. If you're saying they're important in the sense that voters should use them, then I'll strongly disagree. Judging QBs by passing yards and passing TDs is pretty silly considering the availability of other statistics. Manning's averaging 7.6 adjusted net yards per attempt this season. Rivers is at 8.3.

If you want to say Manning's even better than his numbers, or Rivers is worse than his numbers, that's a different argument. I don't see any argument that Manning's numbers are better.

What I get out of this is..... Manning has a higher compeltion percentage which in turn is aided to more underneath stuff. I don't see that as a negative as it is a different approach to what the Chargers do. It is two different styles of offenses. The Chargers throw the ball down the field a lot and Rivers has been deadly accurate in this approach.Manning has more passing attempts and a higher completion percentage on the year as he cuts through a teams defense and takes what he is given. His yardage totals, and completion attempts, and TD totals are greater than Rivers with this style. So being that Manning is a QB and is throwing the ball more than Rivers and in turn is producing greater stats, you are adjusting those net yards as a way to even out their statistical output.

In record books you don't adjust net yards... You see yardage totals, and TD's. Manning is leading in those major categories and his team is perfect. That will be remembered most.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Another masterful performance from Rivers - 21-27 for 264, 2 TDs, and 0 picks. 9.8 YPA and a 132 passer rating.

I think that Peyton Manning is the greatest player in NFL history, but I'm not sure he's having as good of a year as Philip Rivers.

With a game in hand, Manning has more yards and more TD's which are two of the more important stats that will be used in determining the better season. Not to mention Manning is also is leading a team to a perfect record so far. Rivers has been awesome but Manning has been out of this world and to think Rivers season has been better than Manning's is not fair to just how great Manning has been.

Manning has 61 more pass attempts and 58 more passing yards. Statistically, Rivers is blowing Manning out of the water this season. Now if you're saying they're important stats in the sense that voters will use them, you're probably right. If you're saying they're important in the sense that voters should use them, then I'll strongly disagree. Judging QBs by passing yards and passing TDs is pretty silly considering the availability of other statistics. Manning's averaging 7.6 adjusted net yards per attempt this season. Rivers is at 8.3.

If you want to say Manning's even better than his numbers, or Rivers is worse than his numbers, that's a different argument. I don't see any argument that Manning's numbers are better.

What I get out of this is..... Manning has a higher compeltion percentage which in turn is aided to more underneath stuff. I don't see that as a negative as it is a different approach to what the Chargers do. It is two different styles of offenses. The Chargers throw the ball down the field a lot and Rivers has been deadly accurate in this approach.Manning has more passing attempts and a higher completion percentage on the year as he cuts through a teams defense and takes what he is given. His yardage totals, and completion attempts, and TD totals are greater than Rivers with this style. So being that Manning is a QB and is throwing the ball more than Rivers and in turn is producing greater stats, you are adjusting those net yards as a way to even out their statistical output.

In record books you don't adjust net yards... You see yardage totals, and TD's. Manning is leading in those major categories and his team is perfect. That will be remembered most.

Manning also has more incomplete passes than Rivers. Manning does throw shorter passes, and there is nothing wrong with that. But all things equal, throwing longer passes is better than throwing shorter passes. And that's why Rivers has better numbers this year than Manning. Meanwhile, despite playing in a more conservative offense, Manning has thrown significantly more interceptions than Rivers.

I'm not adjusting those net yards to even out their statistical output. Adjusted net yards has nothing to do with evening out statistical output or even adjusting for attempts. Ignoring the adjusted and net yards, Manning is averaging 7.9 Y/A while Rivers is averaging 8.9 Y/A. That's a huge difference.

Passing yards and passing TDs are not major categories when we're comparing two QBs who play every game. If you want to say they're important when comparing Eli Manning to Kellen Clemens, that makess sense; to the extent that they're correlated with playing time (which is a pretty good indicator of ability), they work. But if you're comparing two QBs who play every game, looking at passing yards and TDs is probably barely better than a coin toss in figuring out which QB was better.

As for the fact that it will be remembered most that his team is perfect, that has nothing to do with the question of who has put up better statistics this season.

 

[Jason Wood]

I think Rivers has played his way into the conversation, but this is Manning's race to lose now.

 

[Kimber]

The MVP award is not given on numbers, but on leadership and importance to team. Manning wins hands down. Johnson wins Offensive Player of the Year, which is the award given on numbers. Bank on both of these.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Another masterful performance from Rivers - 21-27 for 264, 2 TDs, and 0 picks. 9.8 YPA and a 132 passer rating.

I think that Peyton Manning is the greatest player in NFL history, but I'm not sure he's having as good of a year as Philip Rivers.

With a game in hand, Manning has more yards and more TD's which are two of the more important stats that will be used in determining the better season. Not to mention Manning is also is leading a team to a perfect record so far. Rivers has been awesome but Manning has been out of this world and to think Rivers season has been better than Manning's is not fair to just how great Manning has been.

Manning has 61 more pass attempts and 58 more passing yards. Statistically, Rivers is blowing Manning out of the water this season. Now if you're saying they're important stats in the sense that voters will use them, you're probably right. If you're saying they're important in the sense that voters should use them, then I'll strongly disagree. Judging QBs by passing yards and passing TDs is pretty silly considering the availability of other statistics. Manning's averaging 7.6 adjusted net yards per attempt this season. Rivers is at 8.3.

If you want to say Manning's even better than his numbers, or Rivers is worse than his numbers, that's a different argument. I don't see any argument that Manning's numbers are better.

What I get out of this is..... Manning has a higher compeltion percentage which in turn is aided to more underneath stuff. I don't see that as a negative as it is a different approach to what the Chargers do. It is two different styles of offenses. The Chargers throw the ball down the field a lot and Rivers has been deadly accurate in this approach.Manning has more passing attempts and a higher completion percentage on the year as he cuts through a teams defense and takes what he is given. His yardage totals, and completion attempts, and TD totals are greater than Rivers with this style. So being that Manning is a QB and is throwing the ball more than Rivers and in turn is producing greater stats, you are adjusting those net yards as a way to even out their statistical output.

In record books you don't adjust net yards... You see yardage totals, and TD's. Manning is leading in those major categories and his team is perfect. That will be remembered most.

Manning also has more incomplete passes than Rivers. Manning does throw shorter passes, and there is nothing wrong with that. But all things equal, throwing longer passes is better than throwing shorter passes. And that's why Rivers has better numbers this year than Manning. Meanwhile, despite playing in a more conservative offense, Manning has thrown significantly more interceptions than Rivers.

I'm not adjusting those net yards to even out their statistical output. Adjusted net yards has nothing to do with evening out statistical output or even adjusting for attempts. Ignoring the adjusted and net yards, Manning is averaging 7.9 Y/A while Rivers is averaging 8.9 Y/A. That's a huge difference.

Passing yards and passing TDs are not major categories when we're comparing two QBs who play every game. If you want to say they're important when comparing Eli Manning to Kellen Clemens, that makess sense; to the extent that they're correlated with playing time (which is a pretty good indicator of ability), they work. But if you're comparing two QBs who play every game, looking at passing yards and TDs is probably barely better than a coin toss in figuring out which QB was better.

As for the fact that it will be remembered most that his team is perfect, that has nothing to do with the question of who has put up better statistics this season.

I am struggling to follow how 8.9 Y/A vs 7.9 Y/A trumps the other categories and even it out to a point where Rivers season has been as statistically good as Manning's. All things being equal, you win games by throwing for yards and TD's at a high completion percentage. This is what Manning does. If you look into it more would Manning's ability to throw for so many yards with such a high completion percentage while having a smaller y/a be attributed to extending drives and a positive thing in a statistical analysis?

If you want to argue that Rivers is the best QB at throwing down the field and stretching a defense than I am in full agreeance. But if you want to argue who has been statistically better as a whole I would struggle to see how having less yards, less tds, worst completion percentage, > 6 more ints, + 1 y/a, +3 qb rating

 

[Chase Stuart]

Rivers ManningY/100A 882 792TD/100A 5.73 6.20INT/100A 1.91 2.82CMP/100A 65.39 68.61
So on every 100 attempts, Rivers throws for 90 more yards, 0.47 fewer touchdowns, 0.91 fewer interceptions and 3.22 fewer completions. Pretty close, but the biggest two differences there are: 1) 90 more yards and 2) almost one full fewer interception. The completions, standing alone (i.e., without more touchdowns, more yards, and fewer INTs) are pretty meaningless. The TD edge is obviously there for Manning, but we're talking less than one more touchdown for every 200 attempts. Obviously not enough to counter Rivers' edges.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Rivers	ManningY/100A	  882	   792TD/100A	5.73	  6.20INT/100A   1.91	  2.82CMP/100A  65.39	 68.61

So on every 100 attempts, Rivers throws for 90 more yards, 0.47 fewer touchdowns, 0.91 fewer interceptions and 3.22 fewer completions. Pretty close, but the biggest two differences there are: 1) 90 more yards and 2) almost one full fewer interception. The completions, standing alone (i.e., without more touchdowns, more yards, and fewer INTs) are pretty meaningless. The TD edge is obviously there for Manning, but we're talking less than one more touchdown for every 200 attempts. Obviously not enough to counter Rivers' edges.

I would go so far as to say Rivers might be the most underrated player in the league.That being said, I look forward to your Pierre Thomas is better than Adrian Peterson thread. Cant wait to see how they stack up per 100 attempts.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Rivers	ManningY/100A	  882	   792TD/100A	5.73	  6.20INT/100A   1.91	  2.82CMP/100A  65.39	 68.61

So on every 100 attempts, Rivers throws for 90 more yards, 0.47 fewer touchdowns, 0.91 fewer interceptions and 3.22 fewer completions. Pretty close, but the biggest two differences there are: 1) 90 more yards and 2) almost one full fewer interception. The completions, standing alone (i.e., without more touchdowns, more yards, and fewer INTs) are pretty meaningless. The TD edge is obviously there for Manning, but we're talking less than one more touchdown for every 200 attempts. Obviously not enough to counter Rivers' edges.

I would go so far as to say Rivers might be the most underrated player in the league.That being said, I look forward to your Pierre Thomas is better than Adrian Peterson thread. Cant wait to see how they stack up per 100 attempts.

Attempts and carries aren't close to the same thing. I wouldn't measure RBs on a per carry basis.