voiceofunreason
Footballguy
100% runaway, the Dallas o-line. Made 2 rookies look like stars and protected a very average defense.
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Who's the 2016 NFL MVP right now? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ghost Rider
- Start date
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Hard to give it to Zeke, that line made McFadden look great last year and Murray an all pro a few years ago. There are no less than 8 backs that would be having the same season as Zeke behind that line.
Right now it has to be Stafford. This Lion's team has no business being 9 - 4. They have been behind in the 4th quarter in every game this year except the Saints game. He is 8 - 4 in those games.
Right now it has to be Stafford. This Lion's team has no business being 9 - 4. They have been behind in the 4th quarter in every game this year except the Saints game. He is 8 - 4 in those games.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Stafford is the king of the fourth-quarter comeback, but why isn’t he doing enough in the first three quarters to put games away? The Lions QB has no business being in that position, especially when playing a team like the lowly Bears at home. During their Week 14 matchup, Stafford threw a pick-six to Bears CB Cre’Von LeBlanc in the middle of the fourth quarter, making him directly responsible for his team’s deficiency. As a certain President-Elect would say, ‘Not very MVP like!’ (Too soon?)
Side note: Anquan Boldin has been a HUGE boost for Stafford and the Lions, somewhat reminiscient of the safety blanket that Boldin became for Joe Flacco in the 2012–13 playoffs.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I think it's close between Carr and Ryan. Both teams would be contending for a top 10 or even top 5 draft pick without either.
Brady has been the best QB this year, but missing four games is huge. Imagine an MLB player being the MVP who missed 40 games (1/4 of the season).
I don't think either Dallas guy is a top contender at this point.
If he keeps it up, I might put Le'Veon Bell up there as a contender.
Brady has been the best QB this year, but missing four games is huge. Imagine an MLB player being the MVP who missed 40 games (1/4 of the season).
I don't think either Dallas guy is a top contender at this point.
If he keeps it up, I might put Le'Veon Bell up there as a contender.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
You do know he was hurt that game and played with the same injury that Carr has and has made Carr a sub par qb for the last few weeks? Part of the reason they aren't doing it in the 1st three quarters is they have no running game and their receivers lead the league in drops. How does 1 bad pick 6 take someone out of the MVP discussion?
FUBAR
Footballguy
I put him #3
ZWK
Footballguy
Some stats comparing team offenses:
Points per Drive
2.93 ATL
2.56 DAL
2.48 NE
2.27 DET
2.26 OAK
Yards per Drive
39.21 ATL
36.72 DAL
36.50 DET
36.25 NE
31.68 OAK
Offensive DVOA
25.8 ATL
22.6 DAL
21.9 NE
16.5 OAK
1.3 DET
And some stats comparing QBs:
ANY/A
8.97 Tom Brady
8.73 Matt Ryan
7.79 Dak Prescott
7.21 Derek Carr
6.84 Matt Stafford
Passing DYAR
1485 Matt Ryan
1088 Derek Carr
1066 Dak Prescott
1022 Tom Brady
744 Matt Stafford
QBR
82.4 Tom Brady
81.2 Dak Prescott
81.1 Matt Ryan
71.2 Matt Stafford
60.7 Derek Carr
PFF grades also have Brady as the top QB and Ryan as the 2nd of the bunch.
Bottom line: there's a case for Brady, especially if you focus on passing efficiency, but with Brady's missed games I give the edge to Matt Ryan.
Points per Drive
2.93 ATL
2.56 DAL
2.48 NE
2.27 DET
2.26 OAK
Yards per Drive
39.21 ATL
36.72 DAL
36.50 DET
36.25 NE
31.68 OAK
Offensive DVOA
25.8 ATL
22.6 DAL
21.9 NE
16.5 OAK
1.3 DET
And some stats comparing QBs:
ANY/A
8.97 Tom Brady
8.73 Matt Ryan
7.79 Dak Prescott
7.21 Derek Carr
6.84 Matt Stafford
Passing DYAR
1485 Matt Ryan
1088 Derek Carr
1066 Dak Prescott
1022 Tom Brady
744 Matt Stafford
QBR
82.4 Tom Brady
81.2 Dak Prescott
81.1 Matt Ryan
71.2 Matt Stafford
60.7 Derek Carr
PFF grades also have Brady as the top QB and Ryan as the 2nd of the bunch.
Bottom line: there's a case for Brady, especially if you focus on passing efficiency, but with Brady's missed games I give the edge to Matt Ryan.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Are we discussing Player of the Year or MVP?
My post was the first mention of Stafford in this thread. He's at least in the discussion of just about every segment or article I've read since Thanksgiving. I checked a couple betting sites and his odds are the same as Brady, trailing only Zeke & Carr.
He just broke Peyton's NFL record for most 4Q comebacks. His TE is in a 5-way tie for the team lead in rushing TDs (1).
But I never read positive posts about him at FBGs. Like, ever. This place is out of sync with the reality he's a great asset to his team.
"He's a volume QB stat stuffer" they said for years. Take away his best weapon, and what of his efficiency the last 17 games, when they have run far fewer plays / PA than his first 6-1/2 years but he's become more efficient? 40 TDs/9 INT since Cooter became the OC.
Boldin has been very good on third down and in the RZ (& the locker room - dude has a tremendous impact on young players.) He's also the 4th or 5th option in that offense when everyone is healthy.
He's having the most efficient season of his career AFTER Megatron retired. And it's not like his career wasn't statistically impressive before this year. He's not elite, but dude has a cannon and he has steadily improved his mechanics & footwork (great pocket awareness this year, has already set a career high for rushing.)
Prater has been phenomenal. He doesn't get most of those GW chances without Staff. The bend but don't break defense rarely generates turnovers or sacks. The offense has an OK deep threat in Jones, a pretty good gadget WR in Tate, a TE who's probably 6th-8th best in the league, a skinny RB who is good receiver. They went 11 weeks without rushing for 100 yards; they have the longest streak without a 100 yard rusher (49 games.) None of those guys are going to the Pro Bowl. Two rookies on the OL.
Why is it so hard to give the man a little respect and acknowledge he's the single biggest reason they're 9-4?
If I had a vote it'd be for Brady. What he is doing at 39 with that group of receivers is incredible. Zeke probably wins it unless he hits a wall.
My post was the first mention of Stafford in this thread. He's at least in the discussion of just about every segment or article I've read since Thanksgiving. I checked a couple betting sites and his odds are the same as Brady, trailing only Zeke & Carr.
He just broke Peyton's NFL record for most 4Q comebacks. His TE is in a 5-way tie for the team lead in rushing TDs (1).
But I never read positive posts about him at FBGs. Like, ever. This place is out of sync with the reality he's a great asset to his team.
"He's a volume QB stat stuffer" they said for years. Take away his best weapon, and what of his efficiency the last 17 games, when they have run far fewer plays / PA than his first 6-1/2 years but he's become more efficient? 40 TDs/9 INT since Cooter became the OC.
Boldin has been very good on third down and in the RZ (& the locker room - dude has a tremendous impact on young players.) He's also the 4th or 5th option in that offense when everyone is healthy.
He's having the most efficient season of his career AFTER Megatron retired. And it's not like his career wasn't statistically impressive before this year. He's not elite, but dude has a cannon and he has steadily improved his mechanics & footwork (great pocket awareness this year, has already set a career high for rushing.)
Prater has been phenomenal. He doesn't get most of those GW chances without Staff. The bend but don't break defense rarely generates turnovers or sacks. The offense has an OK deep threat in Jones, a pretty good gadget WR in Tate, a TE who's probably 6th-8th best in the league, a skinny RB who is good receiver. They went 11 weeks without rushing for 100 yards; they have the longest streak without a 100 yard rusher (49 games.) None of those guys are going to the Pro Bowl. Two rookies on the OL.
Why is it so hard to give the man a little respect and acknowledge he's the single biggest reason they're 9-4?
If I had a vote it'd be for Brady. What he is doing at 39 with that group of receivers is incredible. Zeke probably wins it unless he hits a wall.
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ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Up in the air between Matt Ryan and Brady depending on what happens next few games.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
Brady? Didn't they go 3-1 without him?
Has anyone mentioned Rodgers yet? I mean, if they end up in the playoffs, he's a strong candidate, imo. They've had a WR playing RB half the year, their best WR is 30+ coming off ACL surgery. I'd actually rank the GB WRs more middle of the pack than upper tier. I think Adams is replaceable just like what's his name and Cobb is a mediocre slot receiver. I'm not necessarily pounding the desk for Rodgers but if we're throwing out Brady's name, I think of the big name QBs, Rodgers is the MVP this season.
Has anyone mentioned Rodgers yet? I mean, if they end up in the playoffs, he's a strong candidate, imo. They've had a WR playing RB half the year, their best WR is 30+ coming off ACL surgery. I'd actually rank the GB WRs more middle of the pack than upper tier. I think Adams is replaceable just like what's his name and Cobb is a mediocre slot receiver. I'm not necessarily pounding the desk for Rodgers but if we're throwing out Brady's name, I think of the big name QBs, Rodgers is the MVP this season.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
James Jones.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Based on ESPN "experts," through Week 14:
Brady 54 points
Carr 35 points
Stafford 32 points
Elliott 28 points
Ryan 24 points
Rodgers 9 points
Prescott 4 points
K Mack 3 points
D Johnson 3 points
V Miller 2 points
Tucker 1 point
CBS Sports has their own voting . . .
Brady 23 votes
Ryan 20 votes
Stafford 12 votes
Elliott 7 votes
Carr 5 votes
Bell 5 votes
Rodgers 1 vote
Johnson 1 vote
Prescott 1 vote
Brady 54 points
Carr 35 points
Stafford 32 points
Elliott 28 points
Ryan 24 points
Rodgers 9 points
Prescott 4 points
K Mack 3 points
D Johnson 3 points
V Miller 2 points
Tucker 1 point
CBS Sports has their own voting . . .
Brady 23 votes
Ryan 20 votes
Stafford 12 votes
Elliott 7 votes
Carr 5 votes
Bell 5 votes
Rodgers 1 vote
Johnson 1 vote
Prescott 1 vote
packer_junkie
Footballguy
Rodgers
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
That's a lot of variance between Carr and Ryan.
Stafford 3rd in both, no mention of him in this thread for over a month until I posted last night.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Congrats?
Stafford, like Ryan, is underrated. But really there hasn't been a time I remember watching Stafford play and was amazed or overly impressed. He's not a consistent stud like Brady or Rodgers, he doesn't impress at moments like Cam did last year, and he's been around long enough that we don't get "shiny new toy" love like Carr or Mariota (fwiw, if the Titans win their division he should at least get on the big list). But, Matt has been extremely good this year and deserves consideration.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Record isn't everything, Rodgers is in the discussion, but you are seriously discounting his weapons and he had a running back averaging over 5 ypc until Lacy got hurt.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
The main reason I don't think Zeke should win it is because he is having a great year, but not an all time great year. Dallas has the best offensive line the league has seen since the early 90's Cowboys. When you have that much talent around you, then you need to have an all-time great year, not just a great year.
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ZWK
Footballguy
Matt Ryan widening his lead. Superefficient game against SF even without Julio, most of the other contenders struggled this week, and his week 5 game against Denver keeps looking more and more impressive.
If the Atlanta D had played a little better in their shootout losses then I expect he'd be running away with the award. In Atlanta's 5 losses they've averaged 24.2 ppg and Ryan has a passer rating of 95, both of which are better than the NFL average this season.
If the Atlanta D had played a little better in their shootout losses then I expect he'd be running away with the award. In Atlanta's 5 losses they've averaged 24.2 ppg and Ryan has a passer rating of 95, both of which are better than the NFL average this season.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Dallas OLine deserves to get recognition from this voting.
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NREC34
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Sounds like the ESPN "experts' are morons. Ryan is 5th? That is nuts. He's first in QBR and has a huge lead in YPA. And has been lights out the last two weeks without Julio Jones. And before anyone says, "It was only against the Rams and 49ers," let's remember how many gushed over Brady's return by beating up on the Browns, or when Prescott finally threw a TD against the Bears.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
For the actual Most Valuable Player I think Stafford should be ahead of Brady. The team proved they can win without him which kind of negates being the MVP. I believe Stafford tied a record for most comeback wins in a season. He's kind of the definition the MVP because without him the team most likely is terrible.
Zeke is great but is he the most valuable? I don't think the Cowboys would be much worse without him. Maybe they lose a game or two more.
I think Ryan belongs above Zeke and Brady as well.
Zeke is great but is he the most valuable? I don't think the Cowboys would be much worse without him. Maybe they lose a game or two more.
I think Ryan belongs above Zeke and Brady as well.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
They need to rename the award. How do you judge the player that brings the most value to his team - and why would it matter?
IOW "most valuable" is a silly gauge.
It should be Most Awesome Player or Biggest Kickass or something like that.
Anyway, the answer is obviously Zeke.
IOW "most valuable" is a silly gauge.
It should be Most Awesome Player or Biggest Kickass or something like that.
Anyway, the answer is obviously Zeke.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Ninja, please.
Okay, some consideration should be given to Johnson. But it's still EE.
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Zeke is great but he's not even the second best RB either. He's third behind Johnson and Bell. All three are studs.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Hmmm. Okay. It's not as obvious as I thought.
I still vote Elliott though. He's carrying a rookie QB to success.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I would say that team as a whole is just pretty good. I think that OL deserves more credit than Zeke. Dak would not be very good on a lot of other teams. Zeke would still be the same talented RB but wouldn't have near the stats on another team. They are all products of an overall good team.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Has a rookie ever won MVP?
Just wondering... Zeke should be in the conversation but he won't win it.
It will be a QB, as always. Four contenders here IMO:
Brady
Ryan
Carr
Stafford
Just wondering... Zeke should be in the conversation but he won't win it.
It will be a QB, as always. Four contenders here IMO:
Brady
Ryan
Carr
Stafford
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Elliott is having a great year as a rookie, but the OL is the MVP in Dallas. Zeke is putting up 136 yfs a game. Murray put up 141 yfs in 2014 and McFadden put up 108 yfs once he became the starter last year. Dallas did almost as well as a team in 2014. Murray got two MVP votes that year.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
How I view MVP is that if you subtract this one player, his team would fall apart. Hence the keyword 'Valuable'. Can you say that about Elliott? We saw the success this team has had running the ball the past 2 years before he arrived. We saw the Patriots win 3 games without Tom Brady. I try to think of a player who really put the team on his back and won games that they otherwise would not have without him. I think Matt Stafford is deserving of it. He had so many 4th Q comebacks that without him, or those comebacks, they could easily have one of the worst records in the league.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
This is exactly how I view the MVP. Brady is playing well but he is not the league's MVP.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Dickerson's rookie rushing record (1,808). Not single season record.(2,105). Zeke has 1,551 yards with 2 games left.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Elliott has to be a the top of any list. Brady misses 4 games and is like old man river, Rodgers has been on fire. Wilson does not put up gaudy numbers but always seems to make the plays when needed. Stafford has played very well but the offense does not score much.
I do agree that FF and real value are two very different things.
I do agree that FF and real value are two very different things.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Agree
I really think the Lions are about 2-14 without Stafford this season...
One could make the same statement about Rodgers but he played so bad the middle of the season... there is no way he should be getting more votes than Stafford. And I'm a GB homer
The season Stafford has had, the 4th quarter come backs... man I can't believe I'm defending a Lion... but it's hard to find someone who is more valuable to their team than him, this season
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We debate this every year. MVP historically has been the best offensive player on the team with the best or second best record. Unless there is a player having a super human, record breaking (or near recording breaking) year. The "valuable" part usually is irrelevant. That's just how it is and how the voting has gone.
That's going to rule out guys from teams with 5 or 6 loses (if there are teams going 14-2). A case could be made that Bell and Johnson are having years just as good as Elliott.
Unlike baseball, there are only 50 votes for MVP . . . no second or third place votes, etc. Voters vote for 1 guy and that's it.
That's going to rule out guys from teams with 5 or 6 loses (if there are teams going 14-2). A case could be made that Bell and Johnson are having years just as good as Elliott.
Unlike baseball, there are only 50 votes for MVP . . . no second or third place votes, etc. Voters vote for 1 guy and that's it.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
From the discussions I have heard on Stafford, the knock on him is his totals (7th in yards, 10 in completion%, 11th in QB rating, 13th in TD) combined with the fact that if he played better the first 3/4 of games he wouldn't need to be in position to mount late game comebacks.
To a point that makes sense, as why penalize a QB that built a big lead in the first 3/4 and didn't have to have any late game heroics to win.
To a point that makes sense, as why penalize a QB that built a big lead in the first 3/4 and didn't have to have any late game heroics to win.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
You don't think a GM would take Zeke, a 21 year old specimen over Tom Brady's old deflated balls?
