Why are low end TEs doing so well week 1 pre-season? (1 Viewer)

[tribecalledjeff]

Shiancoe 4-55

Baker 3-22-2

Shockey 3-61-1

V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type this

Keller 3-52

This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

 

[kremenull]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Pretty simple....TE position is very deep this year. More talent entering the league as this is becoming a position of emphasis for teams. This year's rookie crop has yet to really get it going, so the position should be well-stocked for years to come.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I know I am a homer, but I just don't see Shiancoe as a low end TE. He played really well last season and I see him as a big part of the Viking offense.

 

[FUBAR]

I know I am a homer, but I just don't see Shiancoe as a low end TE. He played really well last season and I see him as a big part of the Viking offense.

Shockey and Keller aren't any lower.

 

[Jason Wood]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Not sure any of these are surprises.Shancoe was a Top 6 fantasy TE last year; the Vikings only have one real legit wideout.Baker's 2 TDs were flukey, but he seems a good bet to replace Watson and there will be lots of TDs to go around with Brady healthy.Shockey is a perennial Top 8 TE when healthy. People act like he's totally washed up, but he's a starter on the best passing offense in the NFC.Davis has a LOT to prove before I'm a believer, but he's always been an athletic pass catcher. Dustin Keller is a phenomenal fantasy option this year IMHO...he's a mortal lock for Top 10 numbers and should push for Top 6 numbers in PPR

 

[bentley]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Pretty simple....TE position is very deep this year. More talent entering the league as this is becoming a position of emphasis for teams. This year's rookie crop has yet to really get it going, so the position should be well-stocked for years to come.

I agree with this. Seems to be a lot of buzz about a lot of athletic tight ends out there right now.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Not sure any of these are surprises.Shancoe was a Top 6 fantasy TE last year; the Vikings only have one real legit wideout.Baker's 2 TDs were flukey, but he seems a good bet to replace Watson and there will be lots of TDs to go around with Brady healthy.Shockey is a perennial Top 8 TE when healthy. People act like he's totally washed up, but he's a starter on the best passing offense in the NFC.Davis has a LOT to prove before I'm a believer, but he's always been an athletic pass catcher. Dustin Keller is a phenomenal fantasy option this year IMHO...he's a mortal lock for Top 10 numbers and should push for Top 6 numbers in PPR

The problem I have with this is that there are only so many guys that can be in the top 10. Approximately, that number is 10. You say that these aren't surprises. Someone else said these aren't low end tight ends. I think we'd agree Witten, Gates, Gonzalez, Clark, Cooley, Olsen, Daniels, and Winslow are the consensus top 8. So then you said Shancoe is top 6, Shockey is top 8, and Keller is top 10 maybe top 6? That's 11 guys in the top 10. Not counting Baker or Davis. Or Carlson, or Zach Miller for that matter. That's 15. The point that I'm getting out of this is that TE is deep, like kremenull said. I think these ARE the low end guys, but they are more than serviceable. The gap between the top and bottom of TE isn't what it used to be.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Pretty simple....TE position is very deep this year. More talent entering the league as this is becoming a position of emphasis for teams. This year's rookie crop has yet to really get it going, so the position should be well-stocked for years to come.

I agree with this. Seems to be a lot of buzz about a lot of athletic tight ends out there right now.

Me too. I think that is what my slow mind was thinking when I wrote the original post. Lots of TEs scoring lots of points. Depth at the position.

 

[bentley]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Pretty simple....TE position is very deep this year. More talent entering the league as this is becoming a position of emphasis for teams. This year's rookie crop has yet to really get it going, so the position should be well-stocked for years to come.

I agree with this. Seems to be a lot of buzz about a lot of athletic tight ends out there right now.

Me too. I think that is what my slow mind was thinking when I wrote the original post. Lots of TEs scoring lots of points. Depth at the position.

I noticed this when I was doing some studying on my auction strategy last week. I'll generally pay a few bucks for a TE that I think is going to have a breakout year. While doing the research, I noticed a lot of good things about the usual suspects plus Shiancoe plus Olsen plus Finley plus V Davis, etc. I think I'm saving my money at TE this year.

 

[Jason Wood]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Not sure any of these are surprises.Shancoe was a Top 6 fantasy TE last year; the Vikings only have one real legit wideout.Baker's 2 TDs were flukey, but he seems a good bet to replace Watson and there will be lots of TDs to go around with Brady healthy.Shockey is a perennial Top 8 TE when healthy. People act like he's totally washed up, but he's a starter on the best passing offense in the NFC.Davis has a LOT to prove before I'm a believer, but he's always been an athletic pass catcher. Dustin Keller is a phenomenal fantasy option this year IMHO...he's a mortal lock for Top 10 numbers and should push for Top 6 numbers in PPR

The problem I have with this is that there are only so many guys that can be in the top 10. Approximately, that number is 10. You say that these aren't surprises. Someone else said these aren't low end tight ends. I think we'd agree Witten, Gates, Gonzalez, Clark, Cooley, Olsen, Daniels, and Winslow are the consensus top 8. So then you said Shancoe is top 6, Shockey is top 8, and Keller is top 10 maybe top 6? That's 11 guys in the top 10. Not counting Baker or Davis. Or Carlson, or Zach Miller for that matter. That's 15. The point that I'm getting out of this is that TE is deep, like kremenull said. I think these ARE the low end guys, but they are more than serviceable. The gap between the top and bottom of TE isn't what it used to be.

Well sure, but you're confusing a full year's fantasy ranking with being surprised that any of these guys can have a good half of football. The NFL has completely revamped the TE position as an offensive weapon in the last decade, and we're now at a point where most NFL teams feature the TE in their passing game, whereas that was still a veritable luxury when Gonzo and Shannon Sharpe were doing their thing. Take a look back at the Frank Wycheck and Wesley Walls years; those guys were 'dominant' fantasy TEs but would have a hard time being considered Top 10 these days.In PPR leagues especially, there are going to be 20+ TEs capable of giving you reasonable production. Gone are the days when it was grabbing one of a few studs or punting the position.Not sure if you're a subscriber or not, but here is a glimpse at my current TE rankings (non-PPR):Witten, Jason - DALGates, Antonio - SDGonzalez, Tony - ATLClark, Dallas - INDCarlson, John - SEADaniels, Owen - HOUOlsen, Greg - CHICooley, Chris - WASWinslow, Kellen - TBMiller, Zach - OAKKeller, Dustin - NYJMiller, Heath - PITShockey, Jeremy - NOShiancoe, Visanthe - MINFasano, Anthony - MIAHeap, Todd - BALScheffler, Tony - DENScaife, Bo - TENDavis, Vernon - SFMcMichael, Randy - STLCelek, Brent - PHIBoss, Kevin - NYGBennett, Martellus - DALPettigrew, Brandon - DETBaker, Chris - NELee, Donald - GBLewis, Marcedes - JAXMiller, Billy - NORoyal, Robert - CLEClark, Desmond - CHI

 

[Mister CIA]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Not sure any of these are surprises.Shancoe was a Top 6 fantasy TE last year; the Vikings only have one real legit wideout.Baker's 2 TDs were flukey, but he seems a good bet to replace Watson and there will be lots of TDs to go around with Brady healthy.Shockey is a perennial Top 8 TE when healthy. People act like he's totally washed up, but he's a starter on the best passing offense in the NFC.Davis has a LOT to prove before I'm a believer, but he's always been an athletic pass catcher. Dustin Keller is a phenomenal fantasy option this year IMHO...he's a mortal lock for Top 10 numbers and should push for Top 6 numbers in PPR

The problem I have with this is that there are only so many guys that can be in the top 10. Approximately, that number is 10. You say that these aren't surprises. Someone else said these aren't low end tight ends. I think we'd agree Witten, Gates, Gonzalez, Clark, Cooley, Olsen, Daniels, and Winslow are the consensus top 8. So then you said Shancoe is top 6, Shockey is top 8, and Keller is top 10 maybe top 6? That's 11 guys in the top 10. Not counting Baker or Davis. Or Carlson, or Zach Miller for that matter. That's 15. The point that I'm getting out of this is that TE is deep, like kremenull said. I think these ARE the low end guys, but they are more than serviceable. The gap between the top and bottom of TE isn't what it used to be.

James Casey says hi.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Not sure any of these are surprises.Shancoe was a Top 6 fantasy TE last year; the Vikings only have one real legit wideout.Baker's 2 TDs were flukey, but he seems a good bet to replace Watson and there will be lots of TDs to go around with Brady healthy.Shockey is a perennial Top 8 TE when healthy. People act like he's totally washed up, but he's a starter on the best passing offense in the NFC.Davis has a LOT to prove before I'm a believer, but he's always been an athletic pass catcher. Dustin Keller is a phenomenal fantasy option this year IMHO...he's a mortal lock for Top 10 numbers and should push for Top 6 numbers in PPR

The problem I have with this is that there are only so many guys that can be in the top 10. Approximately, that number is 10. You say that these aren't surprises. Someone else said these aren't low end tight ends. I think we'd agree Witten, Gates, Gonzalez, Clark, Cooley, Olsen, Daniels, and Winslow are the consensus top 8. So then you said Shancoe is top 6, Shockey is top 8, and Keller is top 10 maybe top 6? That's 11 guys in the top 10. Not counting Baker or Davis. Or Carlson, or Zach Miller for that matter. That's 15. The point that I'm getting out of this is that TE is deep, like kremenull said. I think these ARE the low end guys, but they are more than serviceable. The gap between the top and bottom of TE isn't what it used to be.

Well sure, but you're confusing a full year's fantasy ranking with being surprised that any of these guys can have a good half of football. The NFL has completely revamped the TE position as an offensive weapon in the last decade, and we're now at a point where most NFL teams feature the TE in their passing game, whereas that was still a veritable luxury when Gonzo and Shannon Sharpe were doing their thing. Take a look back at the Frank Wycheck and Wesley Walls years; those guys were 'dominant' fantasy TEs but would have a hard time being considered Top 10 these days.In PPR leagues especially, there are going to be 20+ TEs capable of giving you reasonable production. Gone are the days when it was grabbing one of a few studs or punting the position.Not sure if you're a subscriber or not, but here is a glimpse at my current TE rankings (non-PPR):Witten, Jason - DALGates, Antonio - SDGonzalez, Tony - ATLClark, Dallas - INDCarlson, John - SEADaniels, Owen - HOUOlsen, Greg - CHICooley, Chris - WASWinslow, Kellen - TBMiller, Zach - OAKKeller, Dustin - NYJMiller, Heath - PITShockey, Jeremy - NOShiancoe, Visanthe - MINFasano, Anthony - MIAHeap, Todd - BALScheffler, Tony - DENScaife, Bo - TENDavis, Vernon - SFMcMichael, Randy - STLCelek, Brent - PHIBoss, Kevin - NYGBennett, Martellus - DALPettigrew, Brandon - DETBaker, Chris - NELee, Donald - GBLewis, Marcedes - JAXMiller, Billy - NORoyal, Robert - CLEClark, Desmond - CHI

So the guy that you said was a "pheonomenal fantasy option" and a "mortal lock for the top 10" (Keller) isn't in your top 10? People throw around terms like "top 10" and "top 5" but when it gets right down to it, do they really mean it? It's easy to say. It's a lot harder when you actually list out who is in the running for that top 10. This is what I was pointing out with my response to you.Big picture, though. What we are all saying is that TE is deep. Let's move on.

 

[Captain Hook]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

WHY are you trying to make so much out of what happened in a handful of week 1 PRE-SEASON games??Were all the first teamers in on these drives?Usuallly teams try a variety of plays in practice games.....or do you think Tennessee is going to have a lot of fake punt runs?All these guys are decent tight ends...for their teams but I would be surpriseed if more than one or two of them are in the Top 10 TE at the end of the year.I certainly don't think you can make any draft decisions on those players from one practice game

 

[Jason Wood]

Shiancoe 4-55Baker 3-22-2Shockey 3-61-1V. Davis 2-41 on the first drive for SF as I type thisKeller 3-52This strikes me as unusual, especially as (I imagine) most of these guys are doing this in about a half of playing time. Any reason for this? Maybe this happens every preseason due to very bland defenses, maybe there was a rule change that I don't know about that benefits TEs somehow. Most likely there's nothing to this at all, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts.

Not sure any of these are surprises.Shancoe was a Top 6 fantasy TE last year; the Vikings only have one real legit wideout.Baker's 2 TDs were flukey, but he seems a good bet to replace Watson and there will be lots of TDs to go around with Brady healthy.Shockey is a perennial Top 8 TE when healthy. People act like he's totally washed up, but he's a starter on the best passing offense in the NFC.Davis has a LOT to prove before I'm a believer, but he's always been an athletic pass catcher. Dustin Keller is a phenomenal fantasy option this year IMHO...he's a mortal lock for Top 10 numbers and should push for Top 6 numbers in PPR

The problem I have with this is that there are only so many guys that can be in the top 10. Approximately, that number is 10. You say that these aren't surprises. Someone else said these aren't low end tight ends. I think we'd agree Witten, Gates, Gonzalez, Clark, Cooley, Olsen, Daniels, and Winslow are the consensus top 8. So then you said Shancoe is top 6, Shockey is top 8, and Keller is top 10 maybe top 6? That's 11 guys in the top 10. Not counting Baker or Davis. Or Carlson, or Zach Miller for that matter. That's 15. The point that I'm getting out of this is that TE is deep, like kremenull said. I think these ARE the low end guys, but they are more than serviceable. The gap between the top and bottom of TE isn't what it used to be.

Well sure, but you're confusing a full year's fantasy ranking with being surprised that any of these guys can have a good half of football. The NFL has completely revamped the TE position as an offensive weapon in the last decade, and we're now at a point where most NFL teams feature the TE in their passing game, whereas that was still a veritable luxury when Gonzo and Shannon Sharpe were doing their thing. Take a look back at the Frank Wycheck and Wesley Walls years; those guys were 'dominant' fantasy TEs but would have a hard time being considered Top 10 these days.In PPR leagues especially, there are going to be 20+ TEs capable of giving you reasonable production. Gone are the days when it was grabbing one of a few studs or punting the position.Not sure if you're a subscriber or not, but here is a glimpse at my current TE rankings (non-PPR):Witten, Jason - DALGates, Antonio - SDGonzalez, Tony - ATLClark, Dallas - INDCarlson, John - SEADaniels, Owen - HOUOlsen, Greg - CHICooley, Chris - WASWinslow, Kellen - TBMiller, Zach - OAKKeller, Dustin - NYJMiller, Heath - PITShockey, Jeremy - NOShiancoe, Visanthe - MINFasano, Anthony - MIAHeap, Todd - BALScheffler, Tony - DENScaife, Bo - TENDavis, Vernon - SFMcMichael, Randy - STLCelek, Brent - PHIBoss, Kevin - NYGBennett, Martellus - DALPettigrew, Brandon - DETBaker, Chris - NELee, Donald - GBLewis, Marcedes - JAXMiller, Billy - NORoyal, Robert - CLEClark, Desmond - CHI

So the guy that you said was a "pheonomenal fantasy option" and a "mortal lock for the top 10" (Keller) isn't in your top 10? People throw around terms like "top 10" and "top 5" but when it gets right down to it, do they really mean it? It's easy to say. It's a lot harder when you actually list out who is in the running for that top 10. This is what I was pointing out with my response to you.Big picture, though. What we are all saying is that TE is deep. Let's move on.

He's actually tied in my projections for 10th in total points, but we don't have a way of indicating T10 in our rankings. And in PPR, he's solidly inside the Top 10. If I had more faith in the Jets QB situation, I wouldn't hesitate projecting him for 70+ receptions.

 

[baconisgood]

The gap between the top and bottom of TE isn't what it used to be.

The gap between the Middle and the bottom of TE ain't what it used to be, but the gap between the top and bottom is yet to be determined.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

He's actually tied in my projections for 10th in total points, but we don't have a way of indicating T10 in our rankings. And in PPR, he's solidly inside the Top 10. If I had more faith in the Jets QB situation, I wouldn't hesitate projecting him for 70+ receptions.

So "mortal lock" means "just barely." Good to know.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

The gap between the top and bottom of TE isn't what it used to be.

The gap between the Middle and the bottom of TE ain't what it used to be, but the gap between the top and bottom is yet to be determined.

I could buy that.

 

[Jason Wood]

He's actually tied in my projections for 10th in total points, but we don't have a way of indicating T10 in our rankings. And in PPR, he's solidly inside the Top 10. If I had more faith in the Jets QB situation, I wouldn't hesitate projecting him for 70+ receptions.

So "mortal lock" means "just barely." Good to know.

OK, you can belittle an admittedly hasty choice of words. I certainly think Keller will be a Top 10 fantasy TE as long as he stays healthy, but very little is likely to separate TE8 from TE12; but the underlying intent is still there.

 

[whodeywhodey]

Another huge Keller fan here. For where you can get him he might be an absolute steal of the draft for the TE position. (I just nabbed him in the 11th)