Why are so many of the greatest rock groups predominantly British? (1 Viewer)

[Bob Magaw]

I suspect this has come up before, but didn't see based on a cursory search.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

What %. Of great bands would you say ar British?

 

[Bob Magaw]

Really?

Beatles, Stones, Who, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Yes, ELP, King Crimson, Genesis, Jethro Tull, etc.

Sure I'm forgetting a few, but that will suffice for starters. Who did the US have in the classic era? The Doors. Creedence. Hendrix was American, but broke in England. The Byrds. CSN (and sometimes Young, a Canadian). Rush was Canadian. The Grateful Dead. The Eagles were pretty big, though I wouldn't put them up with the Beatles, Stones, Who, Zeppelin, etc.. Michael Jackson wasn't really rock. Booker T and the MGs were great, they weren't a typical rock band (house backing band for Stax in Memphis, but they did jamming instrumentals like Green Onions under their own name). The Beach Boys sold a lot of records, though again, not a typical "rock band", more pop, Brian Wilson was a genius. Rap doesn't really qualify. Sly Stone and Funkadelic were great, but Sly didn't have a long run, and Funkadelic associated more with funk. James Brown more soul and funk. I guess Elvis was pretty big and that was rock, or proto-rock in the beginning. We should count early rockers and massive influences on the British invasion, such as Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, etc.. When I listen to Bo Diddley, I can hear the evolution from blues and R & B to rock.

What is ironic is that bands like the Beatles and Stones, and musicians like Clapton and Page idolized and were influenced by American bluesmen and early rockers, and yet were vastly more successful than the primary influences themselves.

 

[jon_mx]

It's their funny accent.

 

[Mr. Ected]

Wasn't a majority of Punk from the UK also? The Clash, etc?

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Really?

Beatles, Stones, Who, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Yes, ELP, King Crimson, Genesis, Jethro Tull, etc.

Sure I'm forgetting a few, but that will suffice for starters. Who did the US have in the classic era? The Doors. Creedence. Hendrix was American, but broke in England. The Byrds. CSN (and sometimes Young, a Canadian). Rush was Canadian. The Grateful Dead. The Eagles were pretty big, though I wouldn't put them up with the Beatles, Stones, Who, Zeppelin, etc.. Michael Jackson wasn't really rock. Booker T and the MGs were great, they weren't a typical rock band (house backing band for Stax in Memphis, but they did jamming instrumentals like Green Onions under their own name. The Beach Boys sold a lot of records, though again, not a typical "rock band", more pop, Brian Wilson was a genius. Rap doesn't really qualify. Sly Stone and Funkadelic were great, but Sly didn't have a long run, and Funkadelic associated more with funk. James Brown more soul and funk. I guess Elvis was pretty big and that was rock, or proto-rock in the beginning. We should count early rockers and massive influences on the British invasion, such as Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, etc.. When I listen to Bo Diddley, I can hear the evolution from blues and R & B to rock.

What is ironic is that bands like the Beatles and Stones, and musicians like Clapton and Page idolized and were influenced by American bluesmen and early rockers, and yet were vastly more successful than the primary influences themselves.

So what percentage of great bands are British?

 

[Fennis]

29.65%

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

29.65%

0 credit for not showing your work

 

[-jb-]

You're identifying a specific era. When you do that, you are typically isolating a regional influence. In this case, the U.K.

Take a look at 90s Rock bands and report back.

 

[jon_mx]

You're identifying a specific era. When you do that, you are typically isolating a regional influence. In this case, the U.K.

Take a look at 90s Rock bands and report back.

Division by zero would make that calculation indeterminable.

 

[-jb-]

You're identifying a specific era. When you do that, you are typically isolating a regional influence. In this case, the U.K.

Take a look at 90s Rock bands and report back.

Division by zero would make that calculation indeterminable.

Yes, you're right. Great rock bands only come from the 60s.ETA - it doesn't really change the reason. At the time that you have determined for everyone to be the only TIME rock music was great, circumstances have determined that UK was the PLACE.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Because British kids had bleaker lives with less to look forward to.

 

[McGarnicle]

This one goes to 11.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I suspect this has come up before, but didn't see based on a cursory search.

because of WWII and its profound influence on post-war England.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Stop reading Rolling Stone's idiotic history of pop music and quit remembering the aisles at Tower Records as gospel in genre. You alluded to it previously, but then dismissed it by falling into the genre pit yourself. I can name more exceptions than you can name a rule.

For instance, the Wrecking Crew was better (and truer) to how music is made than ####### Pink Floyd (who should give every royalty they ever got to Alan Parsons).

 

[Bob Magaw]

29.65%

0 credit for not showing your work

I don't really have a Mr. Spock-like answer to the hundredth/thousandth of a decimal point. Loosely, I'll go with a lot.

 

[Bob Magaw]

You're identifying a specific era. When you do that, you are typically isolating a regional influence. In this case, the U.K.

Take a look at 90s Rock bands and report back.

What 90s rock band would supplant the Beatles, Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc.?

If you look at greatest rock drummer polls, Bonham generally wins. They don't break it down by decade or region?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

You're identifying a specific era. When you do that, you are typically isolating a regional influence. In this case, the U.K.

Take a look at 90s Rock bands and report back.

What 90s rock band would supplant the Beatles, Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc.?

If you look at greatest rock drummer polls, Bonham generally wins. They don't break it down by decade or region?

You're identifying a specific era. When you do that, you are typically isolating a regional influence. In this case, the U.K.

Take a look at 90s Rock bands and report back.

What 90s rock band would supplant the Beatles, Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc.?

If you look at greatest rock drummer polls, Bonham generally wins. They don't break it down by decade or region?

Why do you think that is, Bob?

 

[Stoneys]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

 

[Bob Magaw]

Stop reading Rolling Stone's idiotic history of pop music and quit remembering the aisles at Tower Records as gospel in genre. You alluded to it previously, but then dismissed it by falling into the genre pit yourself. I can name more exceptions than you can name a rule.

For instance, the Wrecking Crew was better (and truer) to how music is made than ####### Pink Floyd (who should give every royalty they ever got to Alan Parsons).

That was my observation, haven't read any Rolling Stone histories (they can't be the only ones that have said this, it isn't really THAT controversial?). Anybody can have exceptions to the Beatles, Stones, Who, Zeppelin, etc., but I think that would be contrarian. Doesn't mean its wrong, but it might make the incredulousness less appropriate.

Even if the Wrecking Crew were recognized as a group, which they aren't (BTW, my friend said the doc on them was excellent, have you seen it?), I couldn't take them over the above group. Agree to disagree about Pink Floyd and Parsons. Lots of engineers could have done that. Whereas if you slam a couple monkeys into the place of Waters and Gilmour, don't think DSOM would have seen the light of day (maybe because of an eclipse! ).

 

[Bob Magaw]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

 

[NewlyRetired]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

REM, Metallica, Guns and Roses, Steely Dan, Van Halen, are a few others that could be considered.

 

[Bob Magaw]

You're identifying a specific era. When you do that, you are typically isolating a regional influence. In this case, the U.K.

Take a look at 90s Rock bands and report back.

What 90s rock band would supplant the Beatles, Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc.?

If you look at greatest rock drummer polls, Bonham generally wins. They don't break it down by decade or region?

You're identifying a specific era. When you do that, you are typically isolating a regional influence. In this case, the U.K.

Take a look at 90s Rock bands and report back.

What 90s rock band would supplant the Beatles, Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc.?

If you look at greatest rock drummer polls, Bonham generally wins. They don't break it down by decade or region?

Why do you think that is, Bob?

I'm going to go with because the Beatles and Bonham, respectively, were genuinely great for $1,000, Alex.

But perhaps you would like to conduct a didactic, Platonic dialogue-type exercise, and take both sides (since you kind of are already ), to help delineate and explicate these matters for the thread?

* Of course, I sense you are alluding to something like, there are a lot of baby boomers, so if they dominate poll voting as a demographic, and IF they are era-bound to their own and so biased, the deck is stacked, the game is rigged? If we were 2-3, maybe we would think the teletubbies incidental music was the greatest thing since sliced bread?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Stop reading Rolling Stone's idiotic history of pop music and quit remembering the aisles at Tower Records as gospel in genre. You alluded to it previously, but then dismissed it by falling into the genre pit yourself. I can name more exceptions than you can name a rule.

For instance, the Wrecking Crew was better (and truer) to how music is made than ####### Pink Floyd (who should give every royalty they ever got to Alan Parsons).

That was my observation, haven't read any Rolling Stone histories (they can't be the only ones that have said this, it isn't really THAT controversial?). Anybody can have exceptions to the Beatles, Stones, Who, Zeppelin, etc., but I think that would be contrarian. Doesn't mean its wrong, but it might make the incredulousness less appropriate.

Even if the Wrecking Crew were recognized as a group, which they aren't (BTW, my friend said the doc on them was excellent, have you seen it?), I couldn't take them over the above group. Agree to disagree about Pink Floyd and Parsons. Lots of engineers could have done that. Whereas if you slam a couple monkeys into the place of Waters and Gilmour, don't think DSOM would have seen the light of day (maybe because of an eclipse! ).

Missing my point, Bob. Most bands aren't "bands". Critical faves like the Byrds and the Beach Boys didn't play #### on most of their records. David Crosby and Dennis Wilson wouldn't make a 3rd rate bar band.

You know funk. What do you think George was saying with "Who says a funk band can't play rock music"? Come on, Bob. We all know what the elephant in the room is

 

[NewlyRetired]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

 

[Aerial Assault]

I think it's a pretty equal division between American and British rock bands of equal stature, but that in and of itself is pretty surprising given the UK's smaller size. As to 90s American rock bands, other than Nirvana (still living on in a way through the Foo Fighters), I don't think most of them ended up being as influential as one might have thought they would 20 years ago.

I didn't see Genesis, Fleetwood Mac or Heart mentioned (might have missed it). They deserve to be in the conversation and that's two more American bands. The Athens groups, REM and B-52s, too. And someone should probably mention Dave Matthews, as much as he/they exhaust me.

What I'd really like to see is a few bona fide, game-changing American rock, emphasis on rock, bands come on the scene now. Modern-day Tom Petty/Heartbreakers and equally long-lasting. Less "pop," more actual rock.

 

[James Daulton]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

What American bands would you say were better than the four he mentioned. And I better not see ZZ Top or Lynyrd Skynyrd mentioned again.

 

[James Daulton]

I think it's a pretty equal division between American and British rock bands of equal stature, but that in and of itself is pretty surprising given the UK's smaller size. As to 90s American rock bands, other than Nirvana (still living on in a way through the Foo Fighters), I don't think most of them ended up bring as influential as one might have thought they would 20 years ago.

I didn't see Genesis, Fleetwood Mac or Heart mentioned (might have missed it). They deserve to be in the conversation and that's two more American bands.

What I'd really like to see is a few bona fide, game-changing American rock, emphasis on rock, bands come on the scene now. Modern-day Tom Petty/Heartbreakers and equally long-lasting. Less "pop," more actual rock.

None of the bands you mentioned come close to the four he's repeatedly referenced. We can all name good bands all day but there are only a few truly great groups.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

I'll have to think about that. Maybe to some people, William "She Bangs" Hung is superior to the Beatles, and any opinion is equally valid. Maybe in the past, a "Rubenesque" Roseanne Barr was more attractive than a skinny Victoria's Secret model like Miranda Kerr or Adriana Lima. By some criteria, some performance artist taking a dump on the floor is profound, dude, and more genuinely artistic than the Sistine Chapel by Micheal Angelo? I may not think that, but maybe I haven't read enough deconstructionist sociology like Foucault and Derrida?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

What American bands would you say were better than the four he mentioned. And I better not see ZZ Top or Lynyrd Skynyrd mentioned again.

Booker T & the Mgs

The Funk Brothers

Funkadelic

The JBs

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

I'll have to think about that. Maybe to some people, William "She Bangs" Hung is superior to the Beatles, and any opinion is equally valid. Maybe in the past, a "Rubenesque" Roseanne Barr was more attractive than a skinny Victoria's Secret model like Miranda Kerr or Adriana Lima. By some criteria, some performance artist taking a dump on the floor is profound, dude, and more genuinely artistic than the Sistine Chapel by Micheal Angelo? I may not think that, but maybe I haven't read enough deconstructionist sociology like Foucault and Derrida?

Oh, stop. Come on, man

 

[Aerial Assault]

I think it's a pretty equal division between American and British rock bands of equal stature, but that in and of itself is pretty surprising given the UK's smaller size. As to 90s American rock bands, other than Nirvana (still living on in a way through the Foo Fighters), I don't think most of them ended up bring as influential as one might have thought they would 20 years ago.

I didn't see Genesis, Fleetwood Mac or Heart mentioned (might have missed it). They deserve to be in the conversation and that's two more American bands.

What I'd really like to see is a few bona fide, game-changing American rock, emphasis on rock, bands come on the scene now. Modern-day Tom Petty/Heartbreakers and equally long-lasting. Less "pop," more actual rock.

None of the bands you mentioned come close to the four he's repeatedly referenced. We can all name good bands all day but there are only a few truly great groups.

Sure. I wasn't trying to equate the ones I mentioned with anyone else. Springsteen/E Street, Tom Petty/Heartbreakers, Dylan (to the extent he's a "band") and the Eagles might come closest to the big four English bands he's citing, or replace one of those with Nirvana.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

I'll have to think about that. Maybe to some people, William "She Bangs" Hung is superior to the Beatles, and any opinion is equally valid. Maybe in the past, a "Rubenesque" Roseanne Barr was more attractive than a skinny Victoria's Secret model like Miranda Kerr or Adriana Lima. By some criteria, some performance artist taking a dump on the floor is profound, dude, and more genuinely artistic than the Sistine Chapel by Micheal Angelo? I may not think that, but maybe I haven't read enough deconstructionist sociology like Foucault and Derrida?

Are equating Bruce Springsteen to William Hung? There has to be a better way to troll.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

What American bands would you say were better than the four he mentioned. And I better not see ZZ Top or Lynyrd Skynyrd mentioned again.

what is your non subjective criteria so that I know how to answer the question?

Anything other than that is just one persons opinion vs another's and personal preference is the biggest variable.

 

[Stoneys]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

Sure i would. But it would also have to be dependent on a specific criteria.

In my personal opinion the at least 3 of the top 5 rock songs of all time are from american bands.

Like a rolling stone. Born to run and all along the watchtower. 2 written by bob dylan. Satisfaction would be there but no beatles or who or zeppelin. Truthfully the 5th would be Johnny b goode by chuck berry so a 4th American.

Body of work the who and zeppelin wouldnt be better than dylan or Springsteen. so that would make it elvis, the beatles, the stones, dylan and Springsteen. 3 to 2 usa vs the uk.

And i would also include the motown sound and the Stax/volt soul sound into the mix because then we are adding smokey, the temptations, the supremes wilson pickett, otis redding and Aretha. Plus ray charles. johnny cash if u want to include his hybrid of rock and country. And why not include james brown, sly stone and pfunk.

The usa had a more diverse musical sound than the uk.

 

[Aerial Assault]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

What American bands would you say were better than the four he mentioned. And I better not see ZZ Top or Lynyrd Skynyrd mentioned again.

what is your non subjective criteria so that I know how to answer the question?

Anything other than that is just one persons opinion vs another's and personal preference is the biggest variable.

I figured he was talking about longevity/influence, but maybe he's just trolling and it's all subjective.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Stop reading Rolling Stone's idiotic history of pop music and quit remembering the aisles at Tower Records as gospel in genre. You alluded to it previously, but then dismissed it by falling into the genre pit yourself. I can name more exceptions than you can name a rule.

For instance, the Wrecking Crew was better (and truer) to how music is made than ####### Pink Floyd (who should give every royalty they ever got to Alan Parsons).

That was my observation, haven't read any Rolling Stone histories (they can't be the only ones that have said this, it isn't really THAT controversial?). Anybody can have exceptions to the Beatles, Stones, Who, Zeppelin, etc., but I think that would be contrarian. Doesn't mean its wrong, but it might make the incredulousness less appropriate.

Even if the Wrecking Crew were recognized as a group, which they aren't (BTW, my friend said the doc on them was excellent, have you seen it?), I couldn't take them over the above group. Agree to disagree about Pink Floyd and Parsons. Lots of engineers could have done that. Whereas if you slam a couple monkeys into the place of Waters and Gilmour, don't think DSOM would have seen the light of day (maybe because of an eclipse! ).

Missing my point, Bob. Most bands aren't "bands". Critical faves like the Byrds and the Beach Boys didn't play #### on most of their records. David Crosby and Dennis Wilson wouldn't make a 3rd rate bar band.

You know funk. What do you think George was saying with "Who says a funk band can't play rock music"? Come on, Bob. We all know what the elephant in the room is

I'm not taking the position American bands are on the same level, saying that about the Byrds and Beach Boys (props to Brian Wilson, who I acknowledged, and think is/was a genius) doesn't really contradict what I've said. McCartney was a musician's musician, which you know. He was playing on Revolver. The seagull loops were his. Richards, Townshend, Page. They were playing?

Love James Brown and Sly Stone, who along with Hendrix, were profound influences on Miles in the late-'60s and early to mid-'70s (ditto for the Atomic Dog, and beyond - Bootsy played with Brown as a teenager along with his brother, they brought *THE ONE* to P-Funk). But AS ROCK artists, I couldn't put them in that pantheon. But Lennon and McCartney often voiced their respect and appreciation of the American precursors. I'd put it like this. If a good but not spectacular race car driver trains somebody who later becomes the best in the world, it doesn't mean the teacher is "better" because he came first, and taught his pupil some of what he knew initially. No doubt Einstein had teachers who probably didn't change the world as much.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

What American bands would you say were better than the four he mentioned. And I better not see ZZ Top or Lynyrd Skynyrd mentioned again.

Booker T & the Mgs

The Funk Brothers

Funkadelic

The JBs

I don't agree with that at all, and I like all those artists (Standing In The Shadows Of Motown was a great doc on The Funk Brothers).

I don't think we are even defining rock the same. Do Diana Ross and the Supremes even belong in a genre poll with Led Zeppelin? That is the kind of music The Funk Brothers were backing on. They were geniuses, but I wouldn't call what they played rock. Just like I don't think Zeppelin is the best Motown band. McCartney was listening to James Jamerson (not sure he knew who he was, since they often weren't credited, but he knew his SOUND) and influenced by him (leading to studio technique advances such as direct injection boxes around Revolver and after, for a bigger, purer bass tone, that master engineers could cut into record grooves without a turntable literally shaking itself off the record ). He was aware of Duck Dunn, no doubt. The Beatles loved American music, before they TRANSMUTED/TRANSPOSED it back across the Atlantic. Same with the Stones. Zeppelin might have ripped off more blues licks than written original songs?

My guess is if you asked Booker T, Steve Cropper, Bootsy, Fred Wesley or Maceo (all still alive?) if they were bigger rock stars than the Beatles, they would modestly and respectfully disagree. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Stop reading Rolling Stone's idiotic history of pop music and quit remembering the aisles at Tower Records as gospel in genre. You alluded to it previously, but then dismissed it by falling into the genre pit yourself. I can name more exceptions than you can name a rule.

For instance, the Wrecking Crew was better (and truer) to how music is made than ####### Pink Floyd (who should give every royalty they ever got to Alan Parsons).

That was my observation, haven't read any Rolling Stone histories (they can't be the only ones that have said this, it isn't really THAT controversial?). Anybody can have exceptions to the Beatles, Stones, Who, Zeppelin, etc., but I think that would be contrarian. Doesn't mean its wrong, but it might make the incredulousness less appropriate.

Even if the Wrecking Crew were recognized as a group, which they aren't (BTW, my friend said the doc on them was excellent, have you seen it?), I couldn't take them over the above group. Agree to disagree about Pink Floyd and Parsons. Lots of engineers could have done that. Whereas if you slam a couple monkeys into the place of Waters and Gilmour, don't think DSOM would have seen the light of day (maybe because of an eclipse! ).

Missing my point, Bob. Most bands aren't "bands". Critical faves like the Byrds and the Beach Boys didn't play #### on most of their records. David Crosby and Dennis Wilson wouldn't make a 3rd rate bar band.You know funk. What do you think George was saying with "Who says a funk band can't play rock music"? Come on, Bob. We all know what the elephant in the room is

I'm not taking the position American bands are on the same level, saying that about the Byrds and Beach Boys (props to Brian Wilson, who I acknowledged, and think is/was a genius) doesn't really contradict what I've said. McCartney was a musician's musician, which you know. He was playing on Revolver. The seagull loops were his. Richards, Townshend, Page. They were playing?

What?

 

[Bob Magaw]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

I'll have to think about that. Maybe to some people, William "She Bangs" Hung is superior to the Beatles, and any opinion is equally valid. Maybe in the past, a "Rubenesque" Roseanne Barr was more attractive than a skinny Victoria's Secret model like Miranda Kerr or Adriana Lima. By some criteria, some performance artist taking a dump on the floor is profound, dude, and more genuinely artistic than the Sistine Chapel by Micheal Angelo? I may not think that, but maybe I haven't read enough deconstructionist sociology like Foucault and Derrida?

Oh, stop. Come on, man

Carry on with the Platonic dialogue, don't let me stop you.

 

[Bonzai]

Not sure why you're getting so much push back here. Some great individual artists (Dylan, Hendrix, James Brown, Springsteen, Petty), but American bands don't come close to the best from across the pond.

The Beatles

Stones

Zeppelin

The Who

The Kinks

Cream

Pink Floyd

Sabbath

Queen

The Clash

Not close.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

I'll have to think about that. Maybe to some people, William "She Bangs" Hung is superior to the Beatles, and any opinion is equally valid. Maybe in the past, a "Rubenesque" Roseanne Barr was more attractive than a skinny Victoria's Secret model like Miranda Kerr or Adriana Lima. By some criteria, some performance artist taking a dump on the floor is profound, dude, and more genuinely artistic than the Sistine Chapel by Micheal Angelo? I may not think that, but maybe I haven't read enough deconstructionist sociology like Foucault and Derrida?

Are equating Bruce Springsteen to William Hung? There has to be a better way to troll.

You brought up subjectivity, which does have some far ranging implications, but I don't want to degenerate into a debate about epistemology.

I could say the same thing about comparing Springsteen to the Beatles (better ways to troll - Springsteen himself would call you a troll ).

Not sure exactly what you are looking for. IMO, if you conducted a poll among that demographic that listens to rock (excluding, say, Eskimos, Yanamano rain forest Indians, Papua New Guinea head hunters and Tibetan monks that have never heard it), maybe by decade, so teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, and not indefinitely by generation or half generation, as there wasn't really rock music per se in the 1920s and 1930s, and you SUMMED those polls, you would have a disproportionate number of British rock bands at or near the top, relative to their American counterparts. Would that be less subjective?

Of course I don't really know what the poll responses would be, so point taken, I am being subjective. How would you conduct the poll to make it less subjective, and given that, could you venture a guess on what the answer would be?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

What American bands would you say were better than the four he mentioned. And I better not see ZZ Top or Lynyrd Skynyrd mentioned again.

Booker T & the Mgs

The Funk Brothers

Funkadelic

The JBs

Do Diana Ross and the Supremes even belong in a genre poll with Led Zeppelin?

You're ### ####ed right they do. Better records and stand the test of time, too. I realize I'm being pedantic, but I'm tired of "four white guys with guitars" being somehow above and everything else being "other"

 

[Rohn Jambo]

It may have something to do with the fact that a disproportionate number of people in GB like Rock. The music is not as popular in countries like Iran.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

Sure i would. But it would also have to be dependent on a specific criteria.

In my personal opinion the at least 3 of the top 5 rock songs of all time are from american bands.

Like a rolling stone. Born to run and all along the watchtower. 2 written by bob dylan. Satisfaction would be there but no beatles or who or zeppelin. Truthfully the 5th would be Johnny b goode by chuck berry so a 4th American.

Body of work the who and zeppelin wouldnt be better than dylan or Springsteen. so that would make it elvis, the beatles, the stones, dylan and Springsteen. 3 to 2 usa vs the uk.

And i would also include the motown sound and the Stax/volt soul sound into the mix because then we are adding smokey, the temptations, the supremes wilson pickett, otis redding and Aretha. Plus ray charles. johnny cash if u want to include his hybrid of rock and country. And why not include james brown, sly stone and pfunk.

The usa had a more diverse musical sound than the uk.

I think some of the differences here are related to genre differences.

Love James Brown, Sly Stone and P-Funk, and if there was a Funk Hall of Fame, they would be very high on it (I didn't ask why most of the greatest funk bands are British for a reason).

I was thinking more body of work than song. Clearly there are many ways this could be looked at, many ways the question could be asked, entailing many different possible forms of answer, and many ways subjectivity could shape opinions. I could see Elvis. He was hugely influential on Lennon (so was Dylan, and on Harrison, too). I think of Dylan as much folk as rock. It is possible if you polled the board about top 10 rock bands ever, your view might seem idiosyncratic, in having Springsteen over the likes of The Who and Zeppelin? In posing the question, though I didn't make it explicit, I wasn't assuming historical importance, though intuitively, I could see that factoring in for some. No idea how many would include Elvis for historical/influential reasons in a casual, informal poll when that isn't specifically addressed, and how many wouldn't?

To have a discussion about rock, even preliminarily, and while acknowledging lines might not be drawn exactly the same, and boundaries can sometimes be fuzzy, it probably helps to note what rock isn't. Rock came from and incorporates the blues (as well as other idioms). But I don't think of Robert Johnson as a rock guitarist, and that doesn't stop him from being one of the greats, in a genre transcending sense. Certainly a precursor to and influence on Clapton (mammals are thought to have evolved from amphibians, but there are many ways in which the former evolutionary branch offshoot doesn't resemble very much the root ancestor). I don't think of jazz guitarist great Kenny Burrell as a rock musician.

Not to mention, we may have some confusion over a term used in the thread title, I could have done a better job of underscoring that theme earlier. The word/s rock *GROUP*. Perhaps The Who and Zeppelin (there should have been a US/Brit hybrid that might have cut through this question like a Gordian knot - Led ZAPPAlin) represent and exemplify the sense or meaning of group as it is conventionally defined in a different way than Elvis and Dylan? I associate Dylan with The Band if his peak was in the '60s (Springsteen with the E Street Band, not sure about Elvis in the beginning at the Sun label, later in the fat, bloated, pill-ridden Vegas years, I think he used highly regarded session guitarist James Burton as his band organizer, as James Brown did variously with Fred Wesley and Maceo), no idea how common that assumption would be in a poll. Elvis had a massive historical influence on rock in its embryonic, nascent state. Whether people typically associate him with being an example of a great rock group, dunno?

Not saying you are wrong, thanks for the interesting and thought provoking responses and thread contribution.

* If the poll was stipulated to include historical importance, Elvis is a no brainer (again, just don't know if pollsters would assume that in the absence of clarification). If I were asking about greatest song writers (as distinct from rock group), Dylan would presumably and deservedly, obviously even, be very high up the list for many. Probably not Springsteen, in either category, imo.

 

[Ilov80s]

The British bands mostly came out of a certain era and were heavily influenced by black blues and soul artists. The question is then why did black blues and soul music become so popular amongst a select generation of British teens?

 

[Bob Magaw]

It may have something to do with the fact that a disproportionate number of people in GB like Rock. The music is not as popular in countries like Iran.

Right, this was addressed just above (but maybe while writing this), restricted to that demographic that listens to and has some acquaintance with rock, not rain forest Indians, head hunters, Sherpa guides, etc. It is still in dispute whether a polling of British and US listeners would converge or not, and if so, in what direction.

 

[pollardsvision]

Because it's mostly white British descendants that like rock music?

 

[Bob Magaw]

The British bands mostly came out of a certain era and were heavily influenced by black blues and soul artists. The question is then why did black blues and soul music become so popular amongst a select generation of British teens?

That is a good and interesting question. The (or a) question to me still remains, why were originals (and I will make the distinction and note talking about sources and inspirations here in a blues context - Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf) generally not as hugely popular as the versions that refracted those influences back to the origin country (Stones, Clapton, Page, etc.). Maybe part of delineating some of these factors comes from pointing out influences, and the way they are combined before being "refracted" back, is highly complex (not simplistically additive, a lot of British guitarists listened to and played the blues, but weren't as successful as The Stones, The Who, Zeppelin). So maybe it had to do with variances in talent, skill, ability in how they put those influences together.

 

[James Daulton]

I see thatcyou have failed to mention these American rock bands:

The Allman Brothers Band

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Aerosmith

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band

Bob Dylan

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers

Pearl Jam

Nirvana

ZZTop

As I said, probably forgetting some, thanks for the oversight corrections. I wasn't trying to be comprehensive and exhaustive as much as representative.

Would you take any of these over the Beatles, Who, Stones, Zeppelin?

I think before anyone could answer this we would need to know what is your non subjective criteria. Anything beyond non subjective criteria just becomes a matter of a opinion and there is no right or wrong answer.

What American bands would you say were better than the four he mentioned. And I better not see ZZ Top or Lynyrd Skynyrd mentioned again.

Booker T & the Mgs

The Funk Brothers

Funkadelic

The JBs

Do Diana Ross and the Supremes even belong in a genre poll with Led Zeppelin?

You're ### ####ed right they do. Better records and stand the test of time, too. I realize I'm being pedantic, but I'm tired of "four white guys with guitars" being somehow above and everything else being "other"

This is laughable. Did they even play instruments?