Why California’s Proposition 8 Would Make Jesus Weep (1 Viewer)

[Loves You]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

 

[Abraham]

I don't know what's funnier: that you joined today to post a rant or that you have no idea what you're getting yourself in to by joining this forum to post a rant. I certainly hope you'll stick around...

 

[Challenge Everything]

Alias check.

 

[the moops]

I think we have found Wendygirl's nemesis

 

[Hov34]

Did you try to register "Jesus Loves You"?

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

It's going to pass too.

 

[Abraham]

Did you try to register "Jesus Loves You"?

That's what I was thinking.

 

[Socrates11]

I like 'Go and sin no more' Jesus more than 'If it feels good do it' Jesus.

 

[Loves You]

Did you try to register "Jesus Loves You"?

Yes. All that I have left is "Loves You" so that's gonna have to do. We all understand that Jesus Loves You can be very offensive.

 

[quickhands]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

Well then since he didn't address it, It probably meant he agreed with it.

 

[The Z Machine]

It's going to pass too.

Sickening.What's the current polls on this? I did my part and talked to my parents about Prop. 8. They were already going to vote against it, so it wasn't all that necessary.FWIW, the Democratic party of CA has come out against the Prop. as well, although they aren't pushing all that hard for it.

 

[Loves You]

It's going to pass too.

Sickening.What's the current polls on this? I did my part and talked to my parents about Prop. 8. They were already going to vote against it, so it wasn't all that necessary.FWIW, the Democratic party of CA has come out against the Prop. as well, although they aren't pushing all that hard for it.

I believe it's a dead heat -- within the margin of error.

 

[kaa]

The yes has it by 9%. Its going to pass. It is outside the margin of error among likely voters, which is a more accurate measure compared to registered voters.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/marr...}&dist=hppr

Marriage Referendum Leads 52% to 43% Among Likely California Voters

Last update: 11:30 a.m. EDT Oct. 21, 2008

NEW HAVEN, Conn., Oct 21, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Many "no voters" could change votes based on possible effects of 8's failure

A new poll of California voters shows Proposition 8, a proposed constitutional amendment that would reserve marriage for opposite-sex couples, has a 9 percentage point lead among likely voters, 52% to 43%. The poll was conducted for the Knights of Columbus by the Marist College Institute of Public Opinion between September 28 and October 5, 2008.

The survey shows that Proposition 8 has majority support among men (53%), women (51%), whites (51%), Latinos (57%), those who are married (59%) and those age 45 and older (59%). Those opposed include likely voters under age 45 (54% opposed) and those who are not married (54% opposed).

The poll also shows that Proposition 8 leads in every region of California except the Bay Area, where 58% are opposed.

52% of likely California voters believe the state Supreme Court was wrong to have overturned the 2000 referendum in which voters approved reserving marriage for opposite-sex couples, and 72% believe the decision should be left to the voters.

Poll respondents were presented with several arguments and asked whether each one would make them more or less likely to vote for Proposition 8. A majority (58%) were more likely to favor Proposition 8 when reminded that if it passes, same-sex couples will still be able to form civil unions in California. More than half of those describing themselves as opponents of Proposition 8 said they were more likely to shift from opposing to favoring the referendum because of this argument.

Approximately one third of those voting "no" on 8 - and a significant number of undecided voters - would be more likely to vote yes if the proposition's failure could compromise the tax status of religious schools or if children in public schools would be taught that marriage was a relationship "between any two adults."

Nearly half (49%) of likely voters believe that same-sex marriage should not be law if legalizing it would place clergy at risk for lawsuits or threatens the tax-exempt status of religious institutions. And 79% of all likely voters believe that if Proposition 8 fails, clergy should not be required to perform same-sex marriages if it violates their religious convictions.

 

[the moops]

FWIW, the Democratic party of CA has come out against the Prop. as well, although they aren't pushing all that hard for it.

Cowards.

 

[the moops]

And 79% of all likely voters believe that if Proposition 8 fails, clergy should not be required to perform same-sex marriages if it violates their religious convictions.

Good god.I don't know a single person that has ever stated they think clergy should be required to marry same-sex couple. Ridiculous.

 

[kaa]

The biggest reason its going to pass imo is the realization that nontraditional couples can still form civil unions under prop 8.

 

[Jayrod]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

This is Jesus' stance on the Old Testament:"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:17-20

Sin is still sin and if homosexuality was forbidden in the Old Testament, Jesus forbids it. Just scan the Gospels to find how many times Jesus says "repent" if you want to know how he feels about sin.

And before any of you bring it up, all the sacrificial system and clean vs. unclean foods was made perfect through Jesus and therefore we need not sacrifice animals or worry about eating shellfish. But all other commands about righteous living in the Old Testament apply today as far as what are sins.

 

[831hoops]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

So do we legalize incest and polygamy as well in our quest to be all-inclusive?

 

[quickhands]

i think that "loves you" is a true one hit wonder.

good luck to ya

 

[McJose]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

So do we legalize incest and polygamy as well in our quest to be all-inclusive?

Sure. Why not?

 

[MacGruber]

I've already voted no. Two people you don't know getting married has no effect on your life whether they're a man and a woman, a man and a man, a woman and a woman, a man and a

:boom:

 

[The Z Machine]

I've often been wondering about what I can do to spread the word on the NO on Prop. 8.

Not many people to try and move over to my side here in the Bay Area.

 

[Despyzer]

Jesus is probably tougher than you think.

 

[Brutis]

I've often been wondering about what I can do to spread the word on the NO on Prop. 8.

Not many people to try and move over to my side here in the Bay Area.

I bet lol

 

[Abraham]

I've already voted no. Two people you don't know getting married has no effect on your life whether they're a man and a woman, a man and a man, a woman and a woman, a man and a:boom:

Good Shtick. 6 of 10. Run with it and let's see how it goes. I think that there will be some threads in the future where this will come in handy.

 

[tangfoot]

I've already voted no. Two people you don't know getting married has no effect on your life whether they're a man and a woman, a man and a man, a woman and a woman, a man and a:boom:

Good Shtick. 6 of 10. Run with it and let's see how it goes. I think that there will be some threads in the future where this will come in handy.

Ask him about his ping pong ball trick.

 

[PsychoMan]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

This is Jesus' stance on the Old Testament:"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:17-20

Sin is still sin and if homosexuality was forbidden in the Old Testament, Jesus forbids it. Just scan the Gospels to find how many times Jesus says "repent" if you want to know how he feels about sin.

And before any of you bring it up, all the sacrificial system and clean vs. unclean foods was made perfect through Jesus and therefore we need not sacrifice animals or worry about eating shellfish. But all other commands about righteous living in the Old Testament apply today as far as what are sins.

 

[Gr00vus]

Why should I care about what jesus thinks on this issue one way or another? I thought we had separation of church and state in the U.S.

 

[Jayrod]

Why should I care about what jesus thinks on this issue one way or another? I thought we had separation of church and state in the U.S.

You shouldn't wouldn't. This is an appeal to Christians, and thus the discussion about Jesus.

 

[GDogg]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

Well then since he didn't address it, It probably meant he agreed with it.

Silence does not equal acceptance.

 

[CrossEyed]

Hey, Jesus never said anything about wife beating or incest. I guess those are OK too.

 

[Sweet Love]

Hey, Jesus never said anything about wife beating or incest. I guess those are OK too.

Nor did he say anything about driving a car or using the innernets...I say get rid of it all.

 

[Zasada]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

This is Jesus' stance on the Old Testament:"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:17-20

Sin is still sin and if homosexuality was forbidden in the Old Testament, Jesus forbids it. Just scan the Gospels to find how many times Jesus says "repent" if you want to know how he feels about sin.

And before any of you bring it up, all the sacrificial system and clean vs. unclean foods was made perfect through Jesus and therefore we need not sacrifice animals or worry about eating shellfish. But all other commands about righteous living in the Old Testament apply today as far as what are sins.

Yay! I get to own slaves now!

Leviticus 25:44-46 (NIV)

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Fathers out there can also threaten their daughters with death by stoning if they have sex before marriage:

Deuteronomy 22:20-21

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.

I can also go out and kill anyone I don't like if I catch them working on a Sunday (or Saturday for the Jewish folk):

"Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death."

Man, the bible is great. We should definitely use it as a guide for moral living. Think of all the fun we could have!Funny that for a god and religion supposedly so full of love, its manual seems to contain an awful lot of hate.

A relevant quote here from Arthur C Clarke: "One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion."

 

[CrossEyed]

Hey, Jesus never said anything about wife beating or incest. I guess those are OK too.

Nor did he say anything about driving a car or using the innernets...I say get rid of it all.

No, no, no, if Jesus didn't say anything about something that means that He approved of it. So cars and the innerwebs are just fine.

 

[Gr00vus]

Why should I care about what jesus thinks on this issue one way or another? I thought we had separation of church and state in the U.S.

You shouldn't wouldn't. This is an appeal to Christians, and thus the discussion about Jesus.

Good point. But is it outside the scope of appealing to Christians to consider the whole separation of church and state thing we're supposed to honor in the U.S.?

 

[McJose]

Hey, Jesus never said anything about wife beating or incest. I guess those are OK too.

Nor did he say anything about driving a car or using the innernets...I say get rid of it all.

No, no, no, if Jesus didn't say anything about something that means that He approved of it. So cars and the innerwebs are just fine.

Things that are OK now:SwitchbladesSlapping your grandmother with a fan-beltFurry PornPlaying SnGs with your chat buddies and telling them your hole cardsFinding PedoBear pics funnyMember-shaped bachelorette party straws...

 

[ditka...mike ditka]

lies make baby jesus weep

 

[FatMax]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

This is Jesus' stance on the Old Testament:"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:17-20

Sin is still sin and if homosexuality was forbidden in the Old Testament, Jesus forbids it. Just scan the Gospels to find how many times Jesus says "repent" if you want to know how he feels about sin.

And before any of you bring it up, all the sacrificial system and clean vs. unclean foods was made perfect through Jesus and therefore we need not sacrifice animals or worry about eating shellfish. But all other commands about righteous living in the Old Testament apply today as far as what are sins.

Ah, right. Cool. Now tell me what that has to do with the current ballot proposition in California.

 

[cstu]

Did you try to register "Jesus Loves You"?

Yes. All that I have left is "Loves You" so that's gonna have to do. We all understand that Jesus Loves You can be very offensive.

HERETIC!!!

 

[Ray Stevens]

8 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 2 Anonymous Users)

4 Members: CiderHouse, FatMax, Jesus, GAlmgren

This is probably not gonna fly here.

 

[RoarinSonoran]

Well, there certainly are a lot of messicans in California named Jesus, but I doubt this will make many/any of them weep.

 

[Kal El]

Jesus is probably tougher than you think.

He did do work as a carpenter, so I'd say he was on the tougher side. He also wasn't afraid of stirring things up if He knew them to be wrong. Many people have this image of Jesus as some character that wouldn't hurt a fly, but the truth of the matter is that He was just like any of us, he laughed, cried, and got angry just like we all do. He drove out crooked moneychangers from the Temple, calling them "thieves," and even rebuked his disciples if they were wrong.

 

[quickhands]

Why should I care about what jesus thinks on this issue one way or another? I thought we had separation of church and state in the U.S.

well the OP used a distortion of Jesus as the reason to pass prop 8.

 

[quickhands]

Link

In the name of “traditional family values” and spearheaded by conservative Christian groups a measure has been put on the California ballot to, for the first time in California history, add discrimination to the state constitution. This measure has no other purpose than to limit the rights of human beings to legally acknowledge their love for one another and make a binding commitment to one another. They have euphemistically called this a “defense of marriage” and claimed that if not passed the schools of California will force a homosexual ideology on children in schools regardless of parental view. They also claim that religious institutions could be sued if they refuse to perform gay marriages. This is all based on their examination of laws in Massachusetts.

Reality is a far different thing than is being portrayed by the people trying to scare Californians into legislating their version of a family as the only acceptable family. Under California law any parent can opt out of any portion of the school’s curriculum for their children that they deem to be in conflict with their personal beliefs such as sex education and social issues. The inclusion of homosexuals in the pool of legal marriage applicants will have no impact on that law. Under California law the freedom of religion is well established and much like the federal constitution there are provisions in the California constitution that prohibit any law from abridging the free exercise of religion or to promote one religious belief over another. In other words no judge can make you perform ceremonies in your church that violate the tenets of your religion and no law can be passed that makes religious dogma into law.

In the Bible Jesus teaches us to love our enemies and embrace those whom others would cast out. Jesus led by example when he embraced the lepers and brought the pariahs of his time to sit at his side. He embraced those who others disparaged and ridiculed. He never said that homosexuals were evil. In point of fact he never spoke on the subject anywhere in the Bible. He taught love and acceptance of all even those whom have wronged you. He forgave those who crucified him as he died on the cross. He never said he hated anyone. Truth be told you have to go to the Old Testament to find anything about homosexuality and even then you have to look pretty hard, unless of course you are one of those for whom that passage of the Bible is more important than the actual teachings of Christ in which case you can find the dog-eared page most quickly more than likely.

If you accept that the New Testament is the chronicle of the teachings of Christ then as a follower of Christ you should be opposed to any law that would subjugate a segment of the population for who they happen to love. One of the few times Christ was ever cited as showing real anger was when he went into the Temple and saw people perverting the church for their own gain. Now the so-called followers of Jesus are using religion as a club to scare people into making laws that cause God’s children to be excluded and feel emotional pain unnecessarily. “Judge not lest ye be judged.” “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That is what Jesus taught. Hate and exclusion is the realm of darkness. Do you think telling people their love is illegitimate is what Jesus would do?

Well then since he didn't address it, It probably meant he agreed with it.

Silence does not equal acceptance.

In this case it does.

 

[quickhands]

Jesus is probably tougher than you think.

He did do work as a carpenter, so I'd say he was on the tougher side. He also wasn't afraid of stirring things up if He knew them to be wrong. Many people have this image of Jesus as some character that wouldn't hurt a fly, but the truth of the matter is that He was just like any of us, he laughed, cried, and got angry just like we all do. He drove out crooked moneychangers from the Temple, calling them "thieves," and even rebuked his disciples if they were wrong.

plus that beating he took, and then carried his cross. He was tough alright.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The yes has it by 9%. Its going to pass. It is outside the margin of error among likely voters, which is a more accurate measure compared to registered voters.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/marr...}&dist=hppr

Marriage Referendum Leads 52% to 43% Among Likely California Voters

Last update: 11:30 a.m. EDT Oct. 21, 2008

That's really surprising. Among people I know, about 90% are against it.I guess I don't know very many people.

 

[Kal El]

Jesus is probably tougher than you think.

He did do work as a carpenter, so I'd say he was on the tougher side. He also wasn't afraid of stirring things up if He knew them to be wrong. Many people have this image of Jesus as some character that wouldn't hurt a fly, but the truth of the matter is that He was just like any of us, he laughed, cried, and got angry just like we all do. He drove out crooked moneychangers from the Temple, calling them "thieves," and even rebuked his disciples if they were wrong.

plus that beating he took, and then carried his cross. He was tough alright.

True. I guess people think of Him as weak-willed sometimes.

 

[dgreen]

The yes has it by 9%. Its going to pass. It is outside the margin of error among likely voters, which is a more accurate measure compared to registered voters.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/marr...}&dist=hppr

Marriage Referendum Leads 52% to 43% Among Likely California Voters

Last update: 11:30 a.m. EDT Oct. 21, 2008

That's really surprising. Among people I know, about 90% are against it.I guess I don't know very many people.

Or you mainly know people who think like you.

 

[Rooster]

Prop 8 is one of those real sore points for me that makes me doubt my faith of the general public. I can't respect anyone that votes yes for purely religious reasons. Religious laws/morals/etc. should not be the basis for law. Law should protect citizens from each other. Murder shouldn't be illegal because the Bible says it's bad, it should be illegal because the person getting killed shouldn't have his right to life compromised by someone else. I dread the day when "because it's against my religion" is a good reason for a law. Will adultery be an offense that puts you in jail because it breaks a commandment? I don't consider adultery moral, but I would never vote for a law to make it illegal. I can't help but think people voting yes must be purely motivated by fear and using religion as an out. Until someone can say how 2 people getting married infringes upon their rights, I have zero respect for people voting for this prop. I think one day a future generation will look back at this and shake their heads in disbelief about how people could be so intolerant, sort of how like my generation does when we hear about black people not being served in restaurants, having to use different drinking fountains, and the like.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The yes has it by 9%. Its going to pass. It is outside the margin of error among likely voters, which is a more accurate measure compared to registered voters.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/marr...}&dist=hppr

Marriage Referendum Leads 52% to 43% Among Likely California Voters

Last update: 11:30 a.m. EDT Oct. 21, 2008

That's really surprising. Among people I know, about 90% are against it.I guess I don't know very many people.

Or you mainly know people who think like you.

Nobody thinks like me.