Why cant Vick read defense after 8 seasonsin NFL? (1 Viewer)

[dawhole9]

During training camp Marty Mornhinweg hyped him up and said he could possibly be better than Steve Young. But Young could read defenses. Vick has been in the league for 8 seasons and still cant read a defense,who is to blame? Is it the coaches? Or Vick just isnt smart enough to figure it out? What did he score on his wonderlick tests?

Vick is my favorite player ever, i just cant understand how he cant read defense after being in the league this long, its a bit frustrating.

 

[yrforyg]

He's not cerebral and lacks grit

 

[dawhole9]

He's not cerebral and lacks grit

What did he score on his wonderlick test?

 

[Hooper31]

Is this really a can vs can't question?

 

[jon_mx]

He probably never found it necessary. He is more of a scramble around see who comes open kind of guy.

 

[dawhole9]

He probably never found it necessary. He is more of a scramble around see who comes open kind of guy.

And that wont win a ring if you cant read defense.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

He's just not that smart. Which bodes well for Vince Young - he's even dumber but they should be able to resurrect his career as well.

Wonderlic scores:

Vick - 20

McNabb - 14

VY - 6 (retested for a 15)

I think we're all seeing a clear pattern here. Why does Reid insist on having dumb quarterbacks?

Other good qb's who could scramble:

Steve Young - 33

John Elway - 30

 

[two_dollars]

How about Aaron Rodgers, or for comparison, Randall Cunningham? Have something on my mind, wondering if there is a correlation.

 

[Facecow]

He's just not that smart. Which bodes well for Vince Young - he's even dumber but they should be able to resurrect his career as well.

Wonderlic scores:

Vick - 20

McNabb - 14

VY - 6 (retested for a 15)



I think we're all seeing a clear pattern here. Why does Reid insist on having dumb quarterbacks?

Other good qb's who could scramble:

Steve Young - 33

John Elway - 30

For a second there, I was wondering where you were going with this...Carry on.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Steve McNair - 15

Randall Cunningham - 15

Aaron Rodgers - 35

 

[mbuehner]

Too short?

 

[dawhole9]

Too short?

He's the same height as Drew Brees and i mean the exact same height.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

He's really suffered from it making the Pro bowl 4 times while serving a prison sentence along the way, seems to be able to multi-task no problem.

Why can't other Qbs evade the pass rush like Vick can? Why can't other QBs make a throw on their back foot 60+ yds? Why can't other Qbs bring their team from the brink of being down 3 Touchdowns in the 4th Q?

-Why can't all Qbs make throws like Dan Marino who had the quickest release in the history of the NFL?

-Why can't QBs be like Montana and remain cool?

-My favorite though is why can't QBs in the NFL put the ball in a place their WRs can go up and get it instead of throwing it too far out of bounds all the time?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

How many starting QBs would you classify as "Not" being able to read the defense? How many QBs in the NFL can really carve up a defense no matter what is thrown at them? I can think of maybe a handful.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

He's really suffered from it making the Pro bowl 4 times while serving a prison sentence along the way, seems to be able to multi-task no problem. Why can't other Qbs evade the pass rush like Vick can? Why can't other QBs make a throw on their back foot 60+ yds? Why can't other Qbs bring their team from the brink of being down 3 Touchdowns in the 4th Q? -Why can't all Qbs make throws like Dan Marino who had the quickest release in the history of the NFL?-Why can't QBs be like Montana and remain cool? -My favorite though is why can't QBs in the NFL put the ball in a place their WRs can go up and get it instead of throwing it too far out of bounds all the time?

No matter how much you practice there are some things you can't pick up if you don't have the physical capacity. Are you saying Vick lacks the intelligence to study film?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

He's really suffered from it making the Pro bowl 4 times while serving a prison sentence along the way, seems to be able to multi-task no problem. Why can't other Qbs evade the pass rush like Vick can? Why can't other QBs make a throw on their back foot 60+ yds? Why can't other Qbs bring their team from the brink of being down 3 Touchdowns in the 4th Q? -Why can't all Qbs make throws like Dan Marino who had the quickest release in the history of the NFL?-Why can't QBs be like Montana and remain cool? -My favorite though is why can't QBs in the NFL put the ball in a place their WRs can go up and get it instead of throwing it too far out of bounds all the time?

No matter how much you practice there are some things you can't pick up if you don't have the physical capacity. Are you saying Vick lacks the intelligence to study film?

Not at all, in fact I think this thread is preposterous and an attempt to just pile on a guy who some hate for his off field actions. If Vick fails in any game this year the haters will run out and make their slimy little chic poop jab or zing and move on. Vick took a blowtorch to the FF world last season and some people still haven't recovered. People are living in denial. Vick can torch the league for the next 2-3 seasons and then have a hiccup and folks will pile on with "See, I told you he's a pile of manure"...He couldn't get the ball off the other night because he had a rookie right side of the OL, sorry Dunlap isn't a rookie IIRC but that right side is atrocious and Jason Peters ain't exactly doing his part on the left side either. All NFL Qbs can be surgeons when given the right amount of time in the pocket. What makes Vick one of the most dangerous players in the NFL is his ability to make things happen when things are not happening, his ability to catch a defender sleeping and take it all the way to the house, his ability to see a defense keying in on things and knowing he can rip one from anywhere on the field. There are plenty of Vick threads, everyone is welcome to fire a new one up I suppose. If this thread were focused on the weak OL play so far I would have a lot more respect towards it. Can't read a defense...how about Danny Watkins can't make a blocking assignment right now to save his life and allowed the Cleveland DLine to look all world. Let's start there.30Td vs 6 picks last year. Let's look at some QBs that really can't read a defense like Chad Henne.

 

[Yenrub]

He probably never found it necessary. He is more of a scramble around see who comes open kind of guy.

And that wont win a ring if you cant read defense.

Big Ben disagrees ...two times

 

[BigTex]

He relies on his unbelievable natural talents and see no need to do more, could easily be the Michael Jordan of the NFL just lacks the drive or willingness to improve his craft which could make him one of the best at his position.

 

[dawhole9]

He probably never found it necessary. He is more of a scramble around see who comes open kind of guy.

And that wont win a ring if you cant read defense.

Big Ben disagrees ...two times

Stop calling him Big Ben especially after he was accused rape twice, it just doesnt sound right. Secondly Ben is a surgeon on the field and can dissect a defense.Ben can read defenses man. Did you see what he did to the Eagles and Falcons defense?

 

[GregR]

He's just not that smart. Which bodes well for Vince Young - he's even dumber but they should be able to resurrect his career as well.Wonderlic scores:Vick - 20McNabb - 14VY - 6 (retested for a 15)I think we're all seeing a clear pattern here. Why does Reid insist on having dumb quarterbacks?Other good qb's who could scramble:Steve Young - 33John Elway - 30

Dan Marino 16Brett Favre 22Jim Kelly 15Vinny Testaverde 17Terry Bradshaw 15Wonderlic doesn't mean someone can't learn to read an NFL defense. It might mean it will take them more work though as they may not be as good of a problem solver and quick thinker. So they may need to study more to be comfortable with it.

 

[Mark Wimer]

He relies on his unbelievable natural talents and see no need to do more, could easily be the Michael Jordan of the NFL just lacks the drive or willingness to improve his craft which could make him one of the best at his position.

Also, now he has been franchised by the Eagles and his fortune is repaired ($16 million guaranteed IIRC, plus he's getting endorsements again) Vick has regained his wealth and status, so he doesn't need to work hard at improving his game anymore. The motivation that he showed out of prison has been turned down several notches in my opinion. Now he's falling back into his old "Atlanta" habits.

 

[Slider]

Everyone is thinking it but no one will say it.......carry on.

 

[ourmanflint]

He's just not that smart. Which bodes well for Vince Young - he's even dumber but they should be able to resurrect his career as well.

Wonderlic scores:

Vick - 20

McNabb - 14

VY - 6 (retested for a 15)

I think we're all seeing a clear pattern here. Why does Reid insist on having dumb quarterbacks?

Other good qb's who could scramble:

Steve Young - 33

John Elway - 30

I think YOU are seeing the pattern that YOU want to see. Ben Roethlisberger 25

Brett Favre 22

Dan Marino 15

Jim Kelly 15

Terry Bradshaw 15

Ryan Fitzpatrick 48

Alex Smith 40

Matt Leinart 35

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Everyone is thinking it but no one will say it.......carry on.

Yeppers!

 

[Mark Wimer]

Everyone is thinking it but no one will say it.......carry on.

That's covered under "old Atlanta habits".LINK

LINK

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

He's really suffered from it making the Pro bowl 4 times while serving a prison sentence along the way, seems to be able to multi-task no problem. Why can't other Qbs evade the pass rush like Vick can? Why can't other QBs make a throw on their back foot 60+ yds? Why can't other Qbs bring their team from the brink of being down 3 Touchdowns in the 4th Q? -Why can't all Qbs make throws like Dan Marino who had the quickest release in the history of the NFL?-Why can't QBs be like Montana and remain cool? -My favorite though is why can't QBs in the NFL put the ball in a place their WRs can go up and get it instead of throwing it too far out of bounds all the time?

No matter how much you practice there are some things you can't pick up if you don't have the physical capacity. Are you saying Vick lacks the intelligence to study film?

Not at all, in fact I think this thread is preposterous and an attempt to just pile on a guy who some hate for his off field actions. If Vick fails in any game this year the haters will run out and make their slimy little chic poop jab or zing and move on. Vick took a blowtorch to the FF world last season and some people still haven't recovered. People are living in denial. Vick can torch the league for the next 2-3 seasons and then have a hiccup and folks will pile on with "See, I told you he's a pile of manure"...He couldn't get the ball off the other night because he had a rookie right side of the OL, sorry Dunlap isn't a rookie IIRC but that right side is atrocious and Jason Peters ain't exactly doing his part on the left side either. All NFL Qbs can be surgeons when given the right amount of time in the pocket. What makes Vick one of the most dangerous players in the NFL is his ability to make things happen when things are not happening, his ability to catch a defender sleeping and take it all the way to the house, his ability to see a defense keying in on things and knowing he can rip one from anywhere on the field. There are plenty of Vick threads, everyone is welcome to fire a new one up I suppose. If this thread were focused on the weak OL play so far I would have a lot more respect towards it. Can't read a defense...how about Danny Watkins can't make a blocking assignment right now to save his life and allowed the Cleveland DLine to look all world. Let's start there.30Td vs 6 picks last year. Let's look at some QBs that really can't read a defense like Chad Henne.

/threadalmost verbatim what I would have put (saved me 10 minutes until you had to toss in that equally baseless Henne slam. Henne is good and smart. Not every qb is ready at 21 to do the kind of things Michael Vick did at 21. I think you will be eating a lot of henne crow this year. However I'm glad others don't see it frankly, it has really kept Brandon Marshall's ADP low enough that I cab usually grab him much later than I should.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

He's just not that smart. Which bodes well for Vince Young - he's even dumber but they should be able to resurrect his career as well.

Wonderlic scores:

Vick - 20

McNabb - 14

VY - 6 (retested for a 15)

I think we're all seeing a clear pattern here. Why does Reid insist on having dumb quarterbacks?

Other good qb's who could scramble:

Steve Young - 33

John Elway - 30

I think YOU are seeing the pattern that YOU want to see. Ben Roethlisberger 25

Brett Favre 22

Dan Marino 15

Jim Kelly 15

Terry Bradshaw 15

Ryan Fitzpatrick 48

Alex Smith 40

Matt Leinart 35

I bet you lawrence taylor would've gotten a 4 on that test if he took it at gametime. It's kind of interesting, and it does show if you are naturally smarter than someone. But it's translation to the football field is dubious at best. Might be why the Ivy league produces maybe 3 NFL players a year.fwiw here are your top 5 ever. That list is about the definition of average.

Pat McInally of Harvard is the only football player to record a confirmed perfect score of 50.[7][8]Boston College graduate Mike Mamula reportedly scored 49.[9]Ryan Fitzpatrick, also a Harvard graduate and currently a quarterback with the Buffalo Bills, scored 48 in nine minutes.[10] As of 2005, Miami Dolphins wide receiver Kevin Curtis of Utah State was reported to be tied with Fitzpatrick andBenjamin Watson of Georgia and the Cleveland Browns, with their 48 the highest Wonderlic score of active NFL players.[11] In 2011, New York Jets quarterback Greg McElroy of Alabama was believed to have scored 48, but it was quickly discovered that he only scored a still impressive 43.[12]

 

[timschochet]

I'm not a Vick fan. But the guy only threw 6 interceptions last year. You can't have a season like that as a starter without being able to read defenses. Is he the best ever at it? Of course not. That's not where his skill set lies. But he can do it.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I'm not a Vick fan. But the guy only threw 6 interceptions last year. You can't have a season like that as a starter without being able to read defenses. Is he the best ever at it? Of course not. That's not where his skill set lies. But he can do it.

If you don't like a guy he sucks and can't do anything. Pfft. it's amazing how many people would rather just say something in the hopes of it being true later, rather than use their brains and make predictions objectively and without letting your hatred bias your method.

 

[atl3695]

He relies on his unbelievable natural talents and see no need to do more, could easily be the Michael Jordan of the NFL just lacks the drive or willingness to improve his craft which could make him one of the best at his position.

Also, now he has been franchised by the Eagles and his fortune is repaired ($16 million guaranteed IIRC, plus he's getting endorsements again) Vick has regained his wealth and status, so he doesn't need to work hard at improving his game anymore. The motivation that he showed out of prison has been turned down several notches in my opinion. Now he's falling back into his old "Atlanta" habits.

And what are you basing this opinion on? His "fortune" is hardly repaired considering where he came from. Vick is playing for a HUGE multi-year guaranteed contract if he plays well this year. Best believe he has financial incentive to do well. Cant read a defense despite scoring 30 TD's last year and passing for over 250 yards a game? Vick has a couple of bad pre-season games and now he has resorted to this Atlanta habits? What are you basing this on except pure speculation based on your pre-conceived notions about Vick. EVERYTHING I have read and heard says that he is working hard in Philly and doing all the right things to take the team to the next level.

 

[EBF]

I don't think you can teach vision, accuracy, and anticipation, at least not to an elite level.

Hence why Derek Anderson will never be Peyton Manning.

 

[Hoss Style]

He's just not that smart. Which bodes well for Vince Young - he's even dumber but they should be able to resurrect his career as well.Wonderlic scores:Vick - 20McNabb - 14VY - 6 (retested for a 15)I think we're all seeing a clear pattern here. Why does Reid insist on having dumb quarterbacks?Other good qb's who could scramble:Steve Young - 33John Elway - 30

Dan Marino 16Brett Favre 22Jim Kelly 15Vinny Testaverde 17Terry Bradshaw 15Wonderlic doesn't mean someone can't learn to read an NFL defense. It might mean it will take them more work though as they may not be as good of a problem solver and quick thinker. So they may need to study more to be comfortable with it.

Thank you. The faux elephant in the room was getting ridiculous.

 

[FavreCo]

Why do NFL team continue to waste time and draft picks on QB's that can't and will never be able to read defenses? No QB that runs around in the backfield like a chicken with it's head cut off( T-Joke) has ever won the Superbowl. All the team is doing is wasting the careers of it's 52 other players.

 

[dawhole9]

I don't think you can teach vision, accuracy, and anticipation, at least not to an elite level. Hence why Derek Anderson will never be Peyton Manning.

Dont know if anybody ever noticed but Vick's deep passes are always under thrown except for the one he threw to Desean in that redskins game and he really over thrown him

 

[Tom Hagen]

He relies on his unbelievable natural talents and see no need to do more, could easily be the Michael Jordan of the NFL just lacks the drive or willingness to improve his craft which could make him one of the best at his position.

Also, now he has been franchised by the Eagles and his fortune is repaired ($16 million guaranteed IIRC, plus he's getting endorsements again) Vick has regained his wealth and status, so he doesn't need to work hard at improving his game anymore. The motivation that he showed out of prison has been turned down several notches in my opinion. Now he's falling back into his old "Atlanta" habits.

What evidence do you base this opinion on? There hasn't been one hint in the media that Vick's attitude or work ethic is any different then last year. He admitted that he could have worked harder in Atlanta and by all accounts has done so in Philly. Sometimes people can change. I think your prejudice is clouding your judgement.

 

[Mark Wimer]

He relies on his unbelievable natural talents and see no need to do more, could easily be the Michael Jordan of the NFL just lacks the drive or willingness to improve his craft which could make him one of the best at his position.

Also, now he has been franchised by the Eagles and his fortune is repaired ($16 million guaranteed IIRC, plus he's getting endorsements again) Vick has regained his wealth and status, so he doesn't need to work hard at improving his game anymore. The motivation that he showed out of prison has been turned down several notches in my opinion. Now he's falling back into his old "Atlanta" habits.

What evidence do you base this opinion on? There hasn't been one hint in the media that Vick's attitude or work ethic is any different then last year. He admitted that he could have worked harder in Atlanta and by all accounts has done so in Philly. Sometimes people can change. I think your prejudice is clouding your judgement.

I'm not prejudiced against Mike Vick - I was surprised by his improvement in play last year in Philadelphia but was very clear on multiple occasions that during 2010 he seemed to have finally taken his work ethic/film study to the next level and was looking like a better student of the game, though that trend eroded towards the end of the season. I don't see the evidence of that this year - he looked HORRIBLE against the Steelers, even worse than his putrid passing stats that day suggest (5/12 for 47 yards, zero TDs and three interceptions) and not much better vs. Cleveland (10/18 for 98 yards, a 71.1 rating) throwing into coverage repeatedly (just like he used to do in Atlanta on his bad days).

Look, I've covered this guy his whole career - my first article in the first issue of the Footballguys.com print magazine (back in 2005 when we still did one, well before all his legal issues and prison time) was called "The Low Side of Micheal Vick" and I wrote this:

"Michael Vick can throw incredible, jaw-dropping laser passes from time to time and he makes big plays with his legs. The problem with Michael Vick is that he is a wildly inconsistent passer who also carries an elevated risk of injury due to his ability to scramble/run the ball."

and this:

Worse yet, he was all over the map from week to week [2004] - he hit the following percentage of passes from week to week: 59.1, 73.7, 50, 55.6, 62.1, 57.1, 33.3, 75, bye week, 50, 60, 55.2, 48.1, 65, 39.3, DNP, and 6/7 for 85.7 in a cameo appearance week 17.

I've seen bad Michael Vick before, for season after season, and this 2011 version of Vick bears a lot more resemblance to the old erratic Mike Vick than he does the guy we saw early last year. So that's what I base my opinion about Vick on - I don't know what the Vick boosters are basing YOUR optimism on regarding this coming season. He's had far more years playing sub-optimally within his abundant physical capabilities than he has playing up to the best that he can be.

 

[Tom Hagen]

I'm not prejudiced against Mike Vick - I was surprised by his improvement in play last year in Philadelphia but was very clear on multiple occasions that during 2010 he seemed to have finally taken his work ethic/film study to the next level and was looking like a better student of the game, though that trend eroded towards the end of the season. I don't see the evidence of that this year - he looked HORRIBLE against the Steelers, even worse than his putrid passing stats that day suggest (5/12 for 47 yards, zero TDs and three interceptions) and not much better vs. Cleveland (10/18 for 98 yards, a 71.1 rating) throwing into coverage repeatedly (just like he used to do in Atlanta on his bad days). Look, I've covered this guy his whole career - my first article in the first issue of the Footballguys.com print magazine (back in 2005 when we still did one, well before all his legal issues and prison time) was called "The Low Side of Micheal Vick" and I wrote this:

"Michael Vick can throw incredible, jaw-dropping laser passes from time to time and he makes big plays with his legs. The problem with Michael Vick is that he is a wildly inconsistent passer who also carries an elevated risk of injury due to his ability to scramble/run the ball."

and this:

Worse yet, he was all over the map from week to week [2004] - he hit the following percentage of passes from week to week: 59.1, 73.7, 50, 55.6, 62.1, 57.1, 33.3, 75, bye week, 50, 60, 55.2, 48.1, 65, 39.3, DNP, and 6/7 for 85.7 in a cameo appearance week 17.

I've seen bad Michael Vick before, for season after season, and this 2011 version of Vick bears a lot more resemblance to the old erratic Mike Vick than he does the guy we saw early last year. So that's what I base my opinion about Vick on - I don't know what the Vick boosters are basing YOUR optimism on regarding this coming season. He's had far more years playing sub-optimally within his abundant physical capabilities than he has playing up to the best that he can be.

I'm far from a Vick optimist. I just don't think it's fair to make a definitive statement that his problems in preseason are a result of his lack of effort becasue he got a one year franchise contract and some endorsements. If you have proof that he stopped working hard that's fine, otherwise it's just speculation and should be identified as such.I don't think he's good at reading a defense, I just don't see how you can know that it's because he's not working hard.I'll stop the now.

 

[Raider Nation]

He's just not that smart. Which bodes well for Vince Young - he's even dumber but they should be able to resurrect his career as well.

Wonderlic scores:

Vick - 20

McNabb - 14

VY - 6 (retested for a 15)

I think we're all seeing a clear pattern here. Why does Reid insist on having dumb quarterbacks?

Other good qb's who could scramble:

Steve Young - 33

John Elway - 30

I think YOU are seeing the pattern that YOU want to see. Ben Roethlisberger 25

Brett Favre 22

Dan Marino 15

Jim Kelly 15

Terry Bradshaw 15

Ryan Fitzpatrick 48

Alex Smith 40

Matt Leinart 35

I bet you lawrence taylor would've gotten a 4 on that test if he took it at gametime.

GO. SACK. QUARTERBACK! {grunt}What QBs have on their plate is slightly more involved.

 

[Kevrunner]

Vick does pretty good at reading defenses, not sure why he is being singled out, don't forget the other teams are devising schemes each and every week to try and stop him. So no matter how much film you study, each and every week, the defenses Vick plays against are going to show him defensive schemes that he probably has never seen. How good did Peyton Manning read the New Orleans defense in the superbowl a few years ago?

 

[FLY IGGLES FLY]

Interesting discussion... some of it, anyway. I agree that Vick in the past relied solely on his phenomenally superior physical talent. He has admitted this himself. But I believe he is doing his best to become a smarter and better QB. I don't believe his recent payday has caused him to revert back to his old self. People who try to learn and grow often do it in stages which include growing pains (one step back, two steps forward), which is what I think and hope we are seeing in Vick right now. I'll admit I'm not completely convinced Vick can lead his team to higher levels this season, or beyond. But I do believe that he really wants to get there. And my gut feeling is he has enough intelligence to complement his physical abilities enough to be a winner eventually if not immediately. Of course I've never met him so my opinion can only be based on what I see on TV. The interviews I've seen on local channels make me believe Vick is reasonably intelligent, wants to win, and believes in his coaches. Only time will tell how much better he can be, but if he doesn't get there I don't think it will be from lack of caring or lack of effort. But that's just my opinion.

 

[two_dollars]

I don't think it's a stretch to say one group of people routinely tests smarter than another group of people. Then again, one group of people usually ends up being better athletes than another group of people.. strengths and weakness guys.. quit pretending it doesn't exist.

 

[fatness]

30Td vs 6 picks last year.

That's one side of the argument. I have yet to see anyone post the other side of it.

 

[yrforyg]

I don't think it's a stretch to say one group of people routinely tests smarter than another group of people. Then again, one group of people usually ends up being better athletes than another group of people.. strengths and weakness guys.. quit pretending it doesn't exist.

group a is "rich people" right?

 

[Tom Hagen]

I don't think it's a stretch to say one group of people routinely tests smarter than another group of people. Then again, one group of people usually ends up being better athletes than another group of people.. strengths and weakness guys.. quit pretending it doesn't exist.

Did I wander into a Jim11 thread?

 

[UnknownCoach]

Vick struggles to see over the line like Doug Flutie and so many other short QBs. Brees is the exception to the rule, not the norm.

 

[fatness]

I don't think it's a stretch to say one group of people routinely tests smarter than another group of people. Then again, one group of people usually ends up being better athletes than another group of people.. strengths and weakness guys.. quit pretending it doesn't exist.

A guy with 30 TDs and 6 INTs passes the "smarter" test.

 

[Mark Wimer]

I'm not prejudiced against Mike Vick - I was surprised by his improvement in play last year in Philadelphia but was very clear on multiple occasions that during 2010 he seemed to have finally taken his work ethic/film study to the next level and was looking like a better student of the game, though that trend eroded towards the end of the season. I don't see the evidence of that this year - he looked HORRIBLE against the Steelers, even worse than his putrid passing stats that day suggest (5/12 for 47 yards, zero TDs and three interceptions) and not much better vs. Cleveland (10/18 for 98 yards, a 71.1 rating) throwing into coverage repeatedly (just like he used to do in Atlanta on his bad days). Look, I've covered this guy his whole career - my first article in the first issue of the Footballguys.com print magazine (back in 2005 when we still did one, well before all his legal issues and prison time) was called "The Low Side of Micheal Vick" and I wrote this:

"Michael Vick can throw incredible, jaw-dropping laser passes from time to time and he makes big plays with his legs. The problem with Michael Vick is that he is a wildly inconsistent passer who also carries an elevated risk of injury due to his ability to scramble/run the ball."

and this:

Worse yet, he was all over the map from week to week [2004] - he hit the following percentage of passes from week to week: 59.1, 73.7, 50, 55.6, 62.1, 57.1, 33.3, 75, bye week, 50, 60, 55.2, 48.1, 65, 39.3, DNP, and 6/7 for 85.7 in a cameo appearance week 17.

I've seen bad Michael Vick before, for season after season, and this 2011 version of Vick bears a lot more resemblance to the old erratic Mike Vick than he does the guy we saw early last year. So that's what I base my opinion about Vick on - I don't know what the Vick boosters are basing YOUR optimism on regarding this coming season. He's had far more years playing sub-optimally within his abundant physical capabilities than he has playing up to the best that he can be.

I'm far from a Vick optimist. I just don't think it's fair to make a definitive statement that his problems in preseason are a result of his lack of effort becasue he got a one year franchise contract and some endorsements. If you have proof that he stopped working hard that's fine, otherwise it's just speculation and should be identified as such.I don't think he's good at reading a defense, I just don't see how you can know that it's because he's not working hard.I'll stop the now.

Because when he was last in, first out of the building in Atlanta for years and was lacking in the study/film department, he looked as erratic and unprepared as he's looked this year. It takes more than off-the-charts athleticism to be consistently excellent at the QB position in the NFL. It takes hard work.

 

[Mark Wimer]

I don't think it's a stretch to say one group of people routinely tests smarter than another group of people. Then again, one group of people usually ends up being better athletes than another group of people.. strengths and weakness guys.. quit pretending it doesn't exist.

Let's stop this "Judging by the group" stuff. Athletes come one at a time, as do all people, and that's how they should be judged. By what they do on (and off) the field, we measure their greatness in the NFL (and as members of society).Nobody cares what Jerry Rice's test scores were. He is simply the best WR to have ever played this game (to date). Vick's effort (or lack thereof) as a student of the game doesn't correlate to his test scores, it correlates to the amount of time he devotes to his profession. He has publicly admitted that he had a lack of effort in that department while in Atlanta. We'll see how he does during regular season, but right now I'm concerned that he is falling into old (bad) work habits.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

He's just not that smart. Which bodes well for Vince Young - he's even dumber but they should be able to resurrect his career as well.

Wonderlic scores:

Vick - 20

McNabb - 14

VY - 6 (retested for a 15)

I think we're all seeing a clear pattern here. Why does Reid insist on having dumb quarterbacks?

Other good qb's who could scramble:

Steve Young - 33

John Elway - 30

I think YOU are seeing the pattern that YOU want to see. Ben Roethlisberger 25

Brett Favre 22

Dan Marino 15

Jim Kelly 15

Terry Bradshaw 15

Ryan Fitzpatrick 48

Alex Smith 40

Matt Leinart 35

I bet you lawrence taylor would've gotten a 4 on that test if he took it at gametime.

GO. SACK. QUARTERBACK! {grunt}What QBs have on their plate is slightly more involved.

Imagine celebrity jeapordy with Terry Bradshaw, Dan Marino and Brett Favre. It's not all cerebral ...

 

[Bigboy10182000]

30Td vs 6 picks last year.

That's one side of the argument. I have yet to see anyone post the other side of it.

As an Eagles homer I can answer and it's pretty short-- the league had ZERO tape on what he was doing in an Eagles offense. My biggest worry as an Eagles fan is that the league has figured him out. These last two games look a lot like the end of last season did. Even talk radio here mentioned just this past week that he does not appear to be progressing in his 3-step drops either. They're saying he looks for the first guy then tries to run. I'm not saying the OP is right but we will all have the answer this season.