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Why is the IDP Forum So Much Nicer? (1 Viewer)

Islander

Islander

Footballguy
Sorry if this thread does not belong here since there is nothing here that will help you win your FF league, feel free to move it elsewhere if you see fit.

I was wondering why the IDP forum is so much nicer than the shark pool. So many times, I will read a decent point raised by the original poster in the shark pool, then the 2nd post in the thread is some stupid, useless, or degrading one-liner snide comment. Other posters sometimes pile on the stupid one-liner until a reputable poster comes in, ignores the stupidity, and responds to the original post. Then the thread is back on track.

In the shark pool, god forbid if you make an inaccurate statement, you will be insulted.

In the shark pool, when someone disagrees, often they will make personal attacks against the other poster.

In the shark pool, there is almost no tolerance in general.

However, in the IDP forum, people are friendly, helpful, and polite. Debates are focused on the arguments at hand, and have nothing to do with attacking other posters. If a more inexperienced poster asks a more basic question, people are glad to answer and help the poster, rather than ripping the poster for being inexperienced.

So... what are the causes?

1. There are more immature teenagers in the shark pool?

2. Guys posting in the IDP forum are a "different breed" than some in the shark pool? Maybe more serious about FF and generally more respectful of others?

3. People follow precedents? When all you read in the IDP forum is people being nice, then you become nice, whereas in the shark pool, if you frequently read stupid comments, you will make more of them yourself?

I was just wondering how we could transfer some of the strengths of the IDP forum into the shark pool...

 
Islander said:
1. There are more immature teenagers in the shark pool?

2. Guys posting in the IDP forum are a "different breed" than some in the shark pool? Maybe more serious about FF and generally more respectful of others?

3. People follow precedents? When all you read in the IDP forum is people being nice, then you become nice, whereas in the shark pool, if you frequently read stupid comments, you will make more of them yourself?

I was just wondering how we could transfer some of the strengths of the IDP forum into the shark pool...
Click to expand...
Mainly its the people who care to post in this forum are die-hards usually intent on getting right to business and extracting or imparting info. Also, fewer people swimming in the IDP forum.But I can't resist a good Monty-Python llama post opportunity ...

:bag:

 
Islander said:
Sorry if this thread does not belong here since there is nothing here that will help you win your FF league, feel free to move it elsewhere if you see fit.I was wondering why the IDP forum is so much nicer than the shark pool. So many times, I will read a decent point raised by the original poster in the shark pool, then the 2nd post in the thread is some stupid, useless, or degrading one-liner snide comment. Other posters sometimes pile on the stupid one-liner until a reputable poster comes in, ignores the stupidity, and responds to the original post. Then the thread is back on track.In the shark pool, god forbid if you make an inaccurate statement, you will be insulted. In the shark pool, when someone disagrees, often they will make personal attacks against the other poster. In the shark pool, there is almost no tolerance in general.However, in the IDP forum, people are friendly, helpful, and polite. Debates are focused on the arguments at hand, and have nothing to do with attacking other posters. If a more inexperienced poster asks a more basic question, people are glad to answer and help the poster, rather than ripping the poster for being inexperienced.So... what are the causes?1. There are more immature teenagers in the shark pool?2. Guys posting in the IDP forum are a "different breed" than some in the shark pool? Maybe more serious about FF and generally more respectful of others?3. People follow precedents? When all you read in the IDP forum is people being nice, then you become nice, whereas in the shark pool, if you frequently read stupid comments, you will make more of them yourself?I was just wondering how we could transfer some of the strengths of the IDP forum into the shark pool...
Click to expand...
Why do we have to come over to the IDP site and see stupid comments like this one? :D
 
I think you're right on all three accounts.

1. There are a lot more people in the Shark Pool so you've got chances of getting more bad apples.

2. IDP leagues require people to be more involved with football. When you do this, you realize that surprises happen, not everything is cut and dry, and you're more receptive to other people's points of view.

3. IMO the Shark Pool has become a place where people try to one up each other and come up with the best quips and hardest insults. I'm all for a good joke here and there and have posted some myself there, but what really bugs me is when flaming starts over someone's opinion of a player. Really nobody knows for sure how things are going to go. Every year there are surprises but every year most people seem to forget. At the end of every season I see some writer say something about how tis season had the most surprises we've seen in a long time. And then, having forgotten that fact, people tend to blast others when their rankings don't match up.

:goodposting: BTW :thumbup:

 
So, in summary, we we are smarter, harder working at fantasy football, a smaller more cohesive group, part of a better board culture, and more humble and less prone to sarcastic posts. :mellow:

 
Islander said:
Sorry if this thread does not belong here since there is nothing here that will help you win your FF league, feel free to move it elsewhere if you see fit.I was wondering why the IDP forum is so much nicer than the shark pool. So many times, I will read a decent point raised by the original poster in the shark pool, then the 2nd post in the thread is some stupid, useless, or degrading one-liner snide comment. Other posters sometimes pile on the stupid one-liner until a reputable poster comes in, ignores the stupidity, and responds to the original post. Then the thread is back on track.In the shark pool, god forbid if you make an inaccurate statement, you will be insulted. In the shark pool, when someone disagrees, often they will make personal attacks against the other poster. In the shark pool, there is almost no tolerance in general.However, in the IDP forum, people are friendly, helpful, and polite. Debates are focused on the arguments at hand, and have nothing to do with attacking other posters. If a more inexperienced poster asks a more basic question, people are glad to answer and help the poster, rather than ripping the poster for being inexperienced.So... what are the causes?1. There are more immature teenagers in the shark pool?2. Guys posting in the IDP forum are a "different breed" than some in the shark pool? Maybe more serious about FF and generally more respectful of others?3. People follow precedents? When all you read in the IDP forum is people being nice, then you become nice, whereas in the shark pool, if you frequently read stupid comments, you will make more of them yourself?I was just wondering how we could transfer some of the strengths of the IDP forum into the shark pool...
Click to expand...
We've certainly had our share of :football: here in the past. But, for the most part, this place has always been about having a good discussion about defensive football, IDP related or otherwise. There aren't many (if any) posters in here looking to tout themselves as having the sweetest smelling IDP diapers. I think traffic has a little to do with it, but this forum has grown exponentially in the three years I've been lurking-posting and there has been barely a bump in the number of :football: we've seen. For the most part, I think that's because the posters know their stuff, want good football discussion (not pissing contests), and won't feed attention seeking trolls.BTW, Islander. You've been a good poster this past year. We'll expect that you'll not draw attention to our sensitive side ever again. TIA. ;) :hifive:
 
Less big stars, less drama...

(edit- before I create drama I will clarify that there's less "news" and less "attention" given to D... not less drama in the theatrical/enjoyable sense of the word)

 
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Beaumont said:
Islander said:
1. There are more immature teenagers in the shark pool?

2. Guys posting in the IDP forum are a "different breed" than some in the shark pool? Maybe more serious about FF and generally more respectful of others?

3. People follow precedents? When all you read in the IDP forum is people being nice, then you become nice, whereas in the shark pool, if you frequently read stupid comments, you will make more of them yourself?

I was just wondering how we could transfer some of the strengths of the IDP forum into the shark pool...
Click to expand...
Mainly its the people who care to post in this forum are die-hards usually intent on getting right to business and extracting or imparting info. Also, fewer people swimming in the IDP forum.But I can't resist a good Monty-Python llama post opportunity ...

:bag:
Click to expand...
Yeah, these are the true FF dweebs. And it remains pretty civil amongs the dweebs, unless we're discussing which Star Trek was better.
 
Islander said:
Sorry if this thread does not belong here since there is nothing here that will help you win your FF league, feel free to move it elsewhere if you see fit.I was wondering why the IDP forum is so much nicer than the shark pool. So many times, I will read a decent point raised by the original poster in the shark pool, then the 2nd post in the thread is some stupid, useless, or degrading one-liner snide comment. Other posters sometimes pile on the stupid one-liner until a reputable poster comes in, ignores the stupidity, and responds to the original post. Then the thread is back on track.In the shark pool, god forbid if you make an inaccurate statement, you will be insulted. In the shark pool, when someone disagrees, often they will make personal attacks against the other poster. In the shark pool, there is almost no tolerance in general.However, in the IDP forum, people are friendly, helpful, and polite. Debates are focused on the arguments at hand, and have nothing to do with attacking other posters. If a more inexperienced poster asks a more basic question, people are glad to answer and help the poster, rather than ripping the poster for being inexperienced.So... what are the causes?1. There are more immature teenagers in the shark pool?2. Guys posting in the IDP forum are a "different breed" than some in the shark pool? Maybe more serious about FF and generally more respectful of others?3. People follow precedents? When all you read in the IDP forum is people being nice, then you become nice, whereas in the shark pool, if you frequently read stupid comments, you will make more of them yourself?I was just wondering how we could transfer some of the strengths of the IDP forum into the shark pool...
Click to expand...
What a stupid post! :rolleyes: Just kidding. ;) People who post in the IDP board more than not play in IDP leagues. Therefore, they are probably much more insightful and knowledgable about fantasy football due to the fact they have to keep up with not only offensive but defensive players. The more time one puts into researching, the more likey one is to respect the game, hence respect for the message board and its posters.
 
there are so many nuances to the IDP side and for the most

part there arent any self proclaimed gods(yet...but they will be here in the future)

...but as IDP grows in popularity the dopes will come :(

but until then this and other IDP forums really are safe havens

for true discussions about the game, the players & those nuances

 
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Reading these posts I realize I made a collossal blunder today. In the Shark Pool I suggested to the usual bunch of knickersinatwist'ers that instead of worrying about which team defense to draft in the 15th round that they migrate to IDP - if those guys start coming over here we are done for.

If you forgive me I promise I'll never do it again ;)

 
The Shark Pool becomes less attractive every summer and fall. Too many new horns that feel a need to test every buck already in the woods. With each passing FF season that part of the board is more prone to sophmoric BS and pissing matches normally found at 8th grade cheerleader tryouts. Now, the time between the end of the Superbowl and late April is completely different. It makes for excellent reading and offseason company but everything between July through December has to be taken with a grain of salt and in short doses.

The IDP forum, though, is great all the time. Everyone gets along. Everyone shares information. Everyone understands the subtle differences between a discussion, dialogue and debate and the reasons for each. There are some great FF minds that contribute on a daily basis in this area and, as Beaumont stated, far fewer people attempting to hook someone or do a little shameless self promotion. It is what the Shark Pool used to be like.

 
redman said:
So, in summary, we we are smarter, harder working at fantasy football, a smaller more cohesive group, part of a better board culture, and more humble and less prone to sarcastic posts. :mellow:
Click to expand...
Well of course. Better looking too. :)
 
Islander said:
However, in the IDP forum, people are friendly, helpful, and polite. Debates are focused on the arguments at hand, and have nothing to do with attacking other posters. If a more inexperienced poster asks a more basic question, people are glad to answer and help the poster, rather than ripping the poster for being inexperienced.
Click to expand...
:thumbup: Back in the day when we opened the IDP forum there wasn't a whole lot of traffic so we encouraged WDIS, WDID and anything that had to do with IDP discussion. While the level of knowledge has improved through the years, we've retained that aura of helping ourselves by helping each other. The Shark Pool is definitely filled with a different breed, and they (I, we, us, you...) feed off of each other. When a cowboy shows up in the Shark Pool trying to prove that he has the biggest gun, he'll find plenty of posters ready to take him on. In the IDP forum that schtick doesn't get much attention and they either get bored and leave or conform (under an alias, of course, not wanting to show their civil side).
Islander said:
I was just wondering how we could transfer some of the strengths of the IDP forum into the shark pool...
Click to expand...
not in this lifetime
 
maybe there is something to speculative psychological idea that those in IDP leagues are more serious about football & that is why they gravitated here, & maybe for those sort of folks, more dedication to pure football = less attending to egotistical concerns...

i do think you nailed it with #3... that was the one that came immediately to mind for me...

i think we have been blessed in that a critical mass of many of the core posters on the IDP board in past 2-3 years have been for the most part very civil, polite, thoughtful & even gracious with their help... this has no doubt been a good influence on the more general population of lurkers/less frequent posters, to the point where a critical mass of them has followed suit.

maybe seing others adopt a sort of precedent or protocol increases the chance it will be adopted by others... i think there is also a sense of seeing how good a board like this can be at its best when we don't even have to be policed but regulars are spontaneously excellent to each other per FBG ideal.

another factor frankly was that three years ago traffic was so sparse that we were happy to see any kind of post (maybe like owning a gas station/restaraunt in a secluded area on a country road off the beaten path ((though not DELIVERANCE off the beaten path)), where you are happy to see any vistors gassing up & eating, even if they may have different mores & ways of city folk :) ), & if we got a few WDIS questions, we didn't automatically fire off a WRONG FORUM post...

than maybe a method became a mindset, & a desire to encourage more posters to come & stay spilled into a general helpfulness on a great many kinds of possible questions...

at any rate, for a long time (to me, anyway... a year or two) the board has really come into its own and is very much self-sufficient, & if some of the staff gets busy for a day or two, we don't even worry about it because we know there is a core group of regulars, and it is growing all the time, that sets the tone & is a great example in helping each other.

keep up the outstanding work...

two parting thoughts, because they align with how i view the boards recently...

the boards are like a super computer where the output for practical purposes is limited only by the intelligence & insightfulness of our questions... finding better ways to leverage stats & make football more "predictive" & to emphasize the science in the mix as well as the scouting art are possible... the boards are like an intelligence augmentation & amplification tool... you start a thread, that prompts somebody to think about it that wouldn't have if you hadn't initiated it, they suggest a line of thinking you hadn't considered... etc...

the boards are also like a rocket or a race car with hundreds/thousands of steering wheels & control devices... some wheels (joe & dodds) are really big & exert more impact... than there are some medium ones like clayton, jason, bob henry, john norton, etc... than lots of smaller ones... but all having some impact... on the IDP we definitely have a lot of posters, who through helping steer a discussion in the right place are ultimately helping the entire board continue heading in the right direction...

 
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whatever it is - I like it.... IDP has been a journey for me - cracKer's "cheat sheets" were my secret weapin in a draft a few years ago and now Henry et al are doing a great job of keeping me a step ahead - thnks!

 
(haven't read the other responses yet)

I see two reasons:

1. Smaller community. You recognize everyone's name in here and know you'll be discussing stuff with them again tomorrow.

2. Nobody thinks they're an expert on IDPs - we're all learning.

 
Also, in case this thread gets some attention from the higher-ups, the great vibe in this forum is one of the reasons I'd love to see a separate dynasty forum. I've heard the reasons why they don't plan to do it, and I respect them, but wanted to add this to the list of reasons it might be a good idea.

 
Tick said:
Also, in case this thread gets some attention from the higher-ups, the great vibe in this forum is one of the reasons I'd love to see a separate dynasty forum. I've heard the reasons why they don't plan to do it, and I respect them, but wanted to add this to the list of reasons it might be a good idea.
Click to expand...
do you have a link or anything to their reasons for not wanting a seperate dynasty forum? I think it would be a great idea, especially since i mostly play in dynasty leagues.
 
the main reason cited by joe was he didn't want to fragment the board further...

if we are talking about IDP, in a real sense that doesn't concern everybody who doesn't play that format (ie - most people still fall into this group)...

whereas often times discussions about dynasty still revolve around same players in redraft leagues & vice verce... if you learn something new about TO or greg jennings, that may well help in both formats (though it may be put to use in different ways)...

if we separated into two different offense boards, some great redraft posts that COULD have helped in dynasty & vice verce might have been missed...

sure, you could say that everybody could check both boards, but the reality is many might favor one board or the other... we have been instructed if you want to address dynasty specifcally in SP to just label it Dynasty in thread header, which solves problem of having to wade through content not of interest, & converse, identifying that which is...

 
Bob_Magaw said:
the main reason cited by joe was he didn't want to fragment the board further...if we are talking about IDP, in a real sense that doesn't concern everybody who doesn't play that format (ie - most people still fall into this group)...whereas often times discussions about dynasty still revolve around same players in redraft leagues & vice verce... if you learn something new about TO or greg jennings, that may well help in both formats (though it may be put to use in different ways)... if we separated into two different offense boards, some great redraft posts that COULD have helped in dynasty & vice verce might have been missed...sure, you could say that everybody could check both boards, but the reality is many might favor one board or the other... we have been instructed if you want to address dynasty specifcally in SP to just label it Dynasty in thread header, which solves problem of having to wade through content not of interest, & converse, identifying that which is...
Click to expand...
that all makes sense actually. thanks.
 
Bob_Magaw said:
we have been instructed if you want to address dynasty specifcally in SP to just label it Dynasty in thread header, which solves problem of having to wade through content not of interest, & converse, identifying that which is...
Click to expand...
Great in theory, but it doesn't solve that problem. I think threads that are obviously geared to redraft all too frequently end up with a dynasty discussion to wade through. FBG is FF dynasty HQ. Putting the dynasty crown on the header doesn't much discourage a redraft discussion in the same thread. I only bring this up because of several threads that were very interesting became too much to "wade through content not of interest" and I just click away. I would support separate forums and I think it would create more of an "IDP Forum" environment in both. One reason this board is more palatable is the knowledge gap. We have some incredibly well educated IDP experts sharing with newbies and those without the time to be as informed. It contributes to the more respectful conversation here. There is some of that in the SP, but there's also a large population of know-it-alls who know opposing things.

Finally, real men play IDPs, and real men aren't message board tools. ;)

 
Adding to what Tick said about knowing other posters ...

Most of the IDP'rs that have spent time in this forum quickly realize the knowledge base of other IDP posters. For ex. being a Giants fan and an NFC East guy, I really value Redman's contributions in this forum since he keeps me up to date on the Skins. Of course I want to glean as much FF knowledge as I can at all times but I really want to know my NFL team's competition as much as possible too.

The flip side of this is when I need to know more about teams I really don't see on a regular basis. Even as a Sunday Ticket subscriber there are plenty of games and matchups I'd love to see but simply don't have the time. There are countless IDP players I value but don't get to watch. However you can find an informed IDP poster who's a fan of any franchise you're seeking to learn more about. Perfect example for me was this past offseason when I was looking to garner more information on Madieu William's shoulder injury. I was in a position to trade for the guy and was very interested but didn't consider myself too informed on the Bengals. Enter Jene Bramel and his insider Bengals knowledge. Really helped me out in evaluating the guy.

The Shark Pool has so many posters it's tougher to identify their preferences and also to distiguish the informed opinions vs. who simply wants to be heard.

 
Great post, I also think most of your reasons are each in part contributing factors. It definitely feels more close knit here...and I consider myself an outsider since I lurk much more than I post.

It truly is nice to click in a thread in this forum and not have to prepare yourself for the typical food fights that are way too routine in the shark pool.

 
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:football:

 
OK, I'm a closet IDP guy and I'm not afraid to admit it.

I play in a few of them. It is interesting.

That said, IDP is for the harder-core owners, bar none. You have to know 2-3 times as many players, which takes more effort.

BTW - I'll add this one as well. My son (who is 6) just got in a league with me (I'll be easy on him) and the rest of the family. It is his first league.

It has BOTH a team D and IDP guys. He'll be better for it.

Carry on.

 
I think we should start a few pinned Offensive threads in here too... either by team or position.. and not tell the "pool"

the pool has a lot of feces floating in it the last few weeks. It would be nice it get a real discussion on long shot WRs, that have a shot at making a difference. oh well..

IDP is the place.. no question

 
noneother said:
I think we should start a few pinned Offensive threads in here too... either by team or position.. and not tell the "pool" the pool has a lot of feces floating in it the last few weeks. It would be nice it get a real discussion on long shot WRs, that have a shot at making a difference. oh well..IDP is the place.. no question
Click to expand...
So which WRs do you think CORNERBACKS will have the hardest time covering this year... aside from the obvious.
 
brakeyawself said:
noneother said:
I think we should start a few pinned Offensive threads in here too... either by team or position.. and not tell the "pool" the pool has a lot of feces floating in it the last few weeks. It would be nice it get a real discussion on long shot WRs, that have a shot at making a difference. oh well..IDP is the place.. no question
Click to expand...
So which WRs do you think CORNERBACKS will have the hardest time covering this year... aside from the obvious.
Click to expand...
:lol:Avoiding the obvious, I'll go with Matt Jones, Keyshawn Johnson (the need to keep SS in check is huge), and Santana Moss.
 
As for the question of the thread, I think it's a simple matter of why we're here.

IDP = to gain information from those more knowledgeable.

Shark = to prove our mettle.

It's much easier to say someone else has it right when our purpose is to gain info.

 
-OZ- said:
brakeyawself said:
noneother said:
I think we should start a few pinned Offensive threads in here too... either by team or position.. and not tell the "pool" the pool has a lot of feces floating in it the last few weeks. It would be nice it get a real discussion on long shot WRs, that have a shot at making a difference. oh well..IDP is the place.. no question
Click to expand...
So which WRs do you think CORNERBACKS will have the hardest time covering this year... aside from the obvious.
Click to expand...
:lol:Avoiding the obvious, I'll go with Matt Jones, Keyshawn Johnson (the need to keep SS in check is huge), and Santana Moss.
Click to expand...
I agree on those guys.I also think V. Davis and Battle might start keeping double teams off Bryant by midseason in SF.
 
Pro's:

small community with very informed posters who have no issue with helping/teaching along the way.

no agendas

Con's

small community can lead to periods of inactivity

(I will take the good with the bad)

In the cess pool, the mods do a great job of policing, combining and updating threads.

However, it is tiresome to see the same questions asked again and again but not nearly as tiring as having a very good thread spin off into a pssing match about who is right and who is wrong when neither is anything more than opinion.

I have been playing IDP for 12 yrs and have enjoyed being part of this close knit community. Stay small, stay strong!

Tom

 
brakeyawself said:
-OZ- said:
brakeyawself said:
noneother said:
I think we should start a few pinned Offensive threads in here too... either by team or position.. and not tell the "pool" the pool has a lot of feces floating in it the last few weeks. It would be nice it get a real discussion on long shot WRs, that have a shot at making a difference. oh well..IDP is the place.. no question
Click to expand...
So which WRs do you think CORNERBACKS will have the hardest time covering this year... aside from the obvious.
Click to expand...
:lol:Avoiding the obvious, I'll go with Matt Jones, Keyshawn Johnson (the need to keep SS in check is huge), and Santana Moss.
Click to expand...
I agree on those guys.I also think V. Davis and Battle might start keeping double teams off Bryant by midseason in SF.
Click to expand...
I think Plaxico getting doubled may give Carter an oppurtunity. as well, if DBs (wink wink) double up on steve smith, i could see colbert benefitting.maybe a little more than key.. but very good...thanks.. have to think if a DL puts too much pressure on brees, and stallworth can't break coverage, Horn or hass, may have very good numbers
 
-OZ- said:
As for the question of the thread, I think it's a simple matter of why we're here.IDP = to gain information from those more knowledgeable.Shark = to prove our mettle.It's much easier to say someone else has it right when our purpose is to gain info.
Click to expand...
That not why were here.
 
This thread is just begging for

:fishing: :rolleyes:

Now you guys talking about OFFENSIVE players in this forum?

You guys are about to get stole on :hot: :football: :hot:

Who cares about the punks with all the rules on thier side? One bone jarring tackle and your "francise" player is history. Please keep that chum in the aquarium.

This is where we talk about football.

TIA

:popcorn:

:P

 
Beaumont said:
And, yet again, the pool reminds me why its best to not post in there at all ... :thumbdown:
Click to expand...
Alas, had I read this thread before making a post in the Shark Pool!Lesson learned. Now to decide which db's to start this week. Dang, Polamalu had a nice game last night!
 
Ozymandias said:
Islander said:
Sorry if this thread does not belong here since there is nothing here that will help you win your FF league, feel free to move it elsewhere if you see fit.I was wondering why the IDP forum is so much nicer than the shark pool. So many times, I will read a decent point raised by the original poster in the shark pool, then the 2nd post in the thread is some stupid, useless, or degrading one-liner snide comment. Other posters sometimes pile on the stupid one-liner until a reputable poster comes in, ignores the stupidity, and responds to the original post. Then the thread is back on track.In the shark pool, god forbid if you make an inaccurate statement, you will be insulted. In the shark pool, when someone disagrees, often they will make personal attacks against the other poster. In the shark pool, there is almost no tolerance in general.However, in the IDP forum, people are friendly, helpful, and polite. Debates are focused on the arguments at hand, and have nothing to do with attacking other posters. If a more inexperienced poster asks a more basic question, people are glad to answer and help the poster, rather than ripping the poster for being inexperienced.So... what are the causes?1. There are more immature teenagers in the shark pool?2. Guys posting in the IDP forum are a "different breed" than some in the shark pool? Maybe more serious about FF and generally more respectful of others?3. People follow precedents? When all you read in the IDP forum is people being nice, then you become nice, whereas in the shark pool, if you frequently read stupid comments, you will make more of them yourself?I was just wondering how we could transfer some of the strengths of the IDP forum into the shark pool...
Click to expand...
Why do we have to come over to the IDP site and see stupid comments like this one? :D
Click to expand...
:lmao:
 
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