Why is this not treason? (1 Viewer)

[Jackstraw]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-09/republicans-warn-iran-and-obama-that-deal-won-t-last

A group of 47 Republican senators has written an open letter to Iran's leaders warning them that any nuclear deal they sign with President Barack Obama's administration won’t last after Obama leaves office.

Organized by freshman Senator Tom Cotton and signed by the chamber's entire party leadership as well as potential 2016 presidential contenders Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, the letter is meant not just to discourage the Iranian regime from signing a deal but also to pressure the White House into giving Congress some authority over the process.

Seems pretty treasony to me. But since conservative republicans are doing it there must be some angle where its the most patriot act in history.

Don't really care what you think about the deal per se. But I can't think of an similar analogous action in my adult life.

Can you imagine if Dems did something like this? The outrage would be cataclysmic sounding.

 

[Jackstraw]

I remember when the Dixie Chicks said they were embarrassed by the President and heads blew completely up. Now that was a BIG DEAL.

Meddling in international negotiations? Meh.

None of these guys has any power except to cast votes by the way. Hard to fathom.

 

[Jayrok]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-09/republicans-warn-iran-and-obama-that-deal-won-t-last

A group of 47 Republican senators has written an open letter to Iran's leaders warning them that any nuclear deal they sign with President Barack Obama's administration won’t last after Obama leaves office.

Organized by freshman Senator Tom Cotton and signed by the chamber's entire party leadership as well as potential 2016 presidential contenders Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, the letter is meant not just to discourage the Iranian regime from signing a deal but also to pressure the White House into giving Congress some authority over the process.

Seems pretty treasony to me. But since conservative republicans are doing it there must be some angle where its the most patriot act in history.

Don't really care what you think about the deal per se. But I can't think of an similar analogous action in my adult life.

Can you imagine if Dems did something like this? The outrage would be cataclysmic sounding.

Fox news would hold a telethon

 

[Yankee23Fan]

It's not technically treason. It's ****ing stupid though. This GOP is their own worst enemy.

 

[lod01]

I'm sure there is tons of treason going on that you just don't know about. You can't control any of it. Let it go and be glad the stock market is at (or near) all time highs.

 

[Short Corner]

What exactly is treasonous about it?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

18 U.S. Code Section 2381

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Seems like a really bad precedent to set.

 

[quickhands]

I didn't know the Dixie Chicks were convicted of treason.

 

[Fennis]

good to see the republicans negotiating with terrorists

 

[Bucky86]

Republicans can't commit treason. FACT.

 

[Fennis]

who's the doosh who thinks he is John Hancock?

 

[Fennis]

did they mention they are going to vote to overturn Obama Care in their letter?

 

[jonessed]

I don't see how that can be in any way interpreted as treason.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I didn't know the Dixie Chicks were convicted of treason.

They weren't, nor was Jane Fonda.

BTW, if memory serves, treason is also defined in Article III, Section III of the Constitution, but someone may want to check that.

 

[Jayrod]

Exhibiting a divided front to Iran is asinine, but I don't think its treason.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I didn't know the Dixie Chicks were convicted of treason.

They weren't, nor was Jane Fonda.

BTW, if memory serves, treason is also defined in Article III, Section III of the Constitution, but someone may want to check that.

You may want to check on the Senate's roles in approving, advising and CONSENTING on treaties, because that's in there too.

The word "Fonda" does not appear however.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Exhibiting a divided front to Iran is asinine, but I don't think its treason.

I don't think asinine is a strong enough word for it.

 

[Jackstraw]

Maybe not letter of the law treason. The Logan Act however:

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Not a very used law. But it's on the books.

Just shows remarkably bad judgment as well. And it's not an outlier. 47 Senators signed on to this embarrassment.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Maybe not letter of the law treason. The Logan Act however:

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Not a very used law. But it's on the books.

Just shows remarkably bad judgment as well. And it's not an outlier. 47 Senators signed on to this embarrassment.

Without doing any legal research at all, a United States Senator already has the "authority of the United States," such that the rest of this wouldn't apply.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Maybe not letter of the law treason. The Logan Act however:

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Not a very used law. But it's on the books.

Just shows remarkably bad judgment as well. And it's not an outlier. 47 Senators signed on to this embarrassment.

I had never heard of the Logan Act. Learn something new everyday, and today this is it.

 

[Fennis]

Senators sure like to write letters. I always wondered why until it came out this weekend that Sen. Lindsey Graham, who sits on the Subcommittee on Privacy, Technology, and the Law, admitted he has never sent an email in his life.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-graham-admits-he-has-never-sent-an-email-in-his-life-2015-3#ixzz3Tv2srzCc

 

[Hilts]

If you like train wrecks, the Republicans are putting on one helluva show.

If you like the idea of reasonable and responsible elected officials helping shape our country into something better, it's a sad reminder what a mess we're in.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Maybe not letter of the law treason. The Logan Act however:

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Not a very used law. But it's on the books.

Just shows remarkably bad judgment as well. And it's not an outlier. 47 Senators signed on to this embarrassment.

Hiding the intent of legislation and lying about it to the American public and the rest of Congress is pretty crappy also. But I can think of two major instances of that in the last several years, one for each party.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Exhibiting a divided front to Iran is asinine, but I don't think its treason.

I would think presenting a divided front to the world, allies or enemies, only weakens us as a country. I can't believe a party would do something like this. These current republicans have shown they will choose to be reckless if it means gaining power. this is reckless.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Maybe not letter of the law treason. The Logan Act however:

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Not a very used law. But it's on the books.

Just shows remarkably bad judgment as well. And it's not an outlier. 47 Senators signed on to this embarrassment.

And this?

Art I, Sec. 2, US Constitution:

He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties...

And:

Can you remind me - because I really don't know - is the Iran deal a treaty subject to Senate approval, or not?

Is the lifting of sanctions on Iran, imposed by Congress, going to go before Congress or the Senate for approval, or not?

 

[jonessed]

Exhibiting a divided front to Iran is asinine, but I don't think its treason.

I would think presenting a divided front to the world, allies or enemies, only weakens us as a country. I can't believe a party would do something like this. These current republicans have shown they will choose to be reckless if it means gaining power. this is reckless.

So is negotiating a treaty that requires Senate approval that includes eliminating sanctions that requires Senate approval without consulting with the Senate.

This has been a mess all around.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Maybe not letter of the law treason. The Logan Act however:

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Not a very used law. But it's on the books.

Just shows remarkably bad judgment as well. And it's not an outlier. 47 Senators signed on to this embarrassment.

So we can't #### Iranian chicks now? What's this country coming to?

 

[The General]

How has Obama not figured out all he has to do is propose the opposite of what he wants? The Republicans would be against it and he would get what he actually wants. Seems pretty simple.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm not sure I agree a hunnert percent with their governance here.

 

[sbonomo]

Maybe not letter of the law treason. The Logan Act however:

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Not a very used law. But it's on the books.

Just shows remarkably bad judgment as well. And it's not an outlier. 47 Senators signed on to this embarrassment.

dennise rodman better watch out..

 

[Jack White]

If you like train wrecks, the Republicans are USG is putting on one helluva show.

If you like the idea of reasonable and responsible elected officials helping shape our country into something better, it's a sad reminder what a mess we're in, you might also like Unicorns.

 

[NREC34]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-09/republicans-warn-iran-and-obama-that-deal-won-t-last

A group of 47 Republican senators has written an open letter to Iran's leaders warning them that any nuclear deal they sign with President Barack Obama's administration wont last after Obama leaves office.

Organized by freshman Senator Tom Cotton and signed by the chamber's entire party leadership as well as potential 2016 presidential contenders Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, the letter is meant not just to discourage the Iranian regime from signing a deal but also to pressure the White House into giving Congress some authority over the process.

Seems pretty treasony to me. But since conservative republicans are doing it there must be some angle where its the most patriot act in history.

Don't really care what you think about the deal per se. But I can't think of an similar analogous action in my adult life.

Can you imagine if Dems did something like this? The outrage would be cataclysmic sounding.

I can't stand that guy Cotton.

 

[Todd Andrews]

The Kooks are getting crazy

 

[Jayrod]

If you like train wrecks, the Republicans are USG is putting on one helluva show.

If you like the idea of reasonable and responsible elected officials helping shape our country into something better, it's a sad reminder what a mess we're in, you might also like Unicorns.

I don't usually appreciate your political rants Jack, but this is good. I concur 100%.

 

[General Tso]

Very dumb. Respect the Office for crying out loud.

 

[randall146]

I always figured advice and consent meant advising and consenting to our president, not theirs.

 

[Guest]

Exhibiting a divided front to Iran is asinine, but I don't think its treason.

I would think presenting a divided front to the world, allies or enemies, only weakens us as a country. I can't believe a party would do something like this. These current republicans have shown they will choose to be reckless if it means gaining power. this is reckless.

This. Politics is supposed to end at the water's edge.

 

[jon_mx]

Republicans can't commit treason. FACT.

Just like Dems can't be racist. It is part of the definition.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Very dumb. Respect the Office for crying out loud.

The current crop of republicans want power and they will not respect anyone or anything including issues of national security. Politics trumps all. Their plan is very transparent. Be the party that is perceived to be most on the side of Israel, win Florida, win the presidency. No such thing as an election cycle any more. The next election starts right after the last one ends and the business and welfare of the country are secondary.

 

[Jayrod]

Very dumb. Respect the Office for crying out loud.

The current crop of republicans want power and they will not respect anyone or anything including issues of national security. Politics trumps all. Their plan is very transparent. Be the party that is perceived to be most on the side of Israel, win Florida, win the presidency. No such thing as an election cycle any more. The next election starts right after the last one ends and the business and welfare of the country are secondary.

This has become increasingly the issue, IMO. Both sides do it. Career politicians are basically campaigning 365 days a year. Even their votes while in office are not based upon the greater good, but getting re-elected.

 

[Fennis]

Very dumb. Respect the Office for crying out loud.

The current crop of republicans want power and they will not respect anyone or anything including issues of national security. Politics trumps all. Their plan is very transparent. Be the party that is perceived to be most on the side of Israel, win Florida, win the presidency. No such thing as an election cycle any more. The next election starts right after the last one ends and the business and welfare of the country are secondary.

This has become increasingly the issue, IMO. Both sides do it. Career politicians are basically campaigning 365 days a year. Even their votes while in office are not based upon the greater good, but getting re-elected.

Its way past time for term limits. These guys even have the gall to say they are Senate lifers in their letter to the Ayatollah. (another example of a lifer)

 

[MC Gas Money]

Just being in the GOP is treason.

I say lock em up

 

[jon_mx]

it seems like the first unConstitional act is Obama's signing a treaty with a foreign government without approval of the Senate. The Senates's letter just seems odd and does not make a lot of sense. Either way, I am not getting the treason charge. That is just kookery.

 

[MaxThreshold]

The OP clearly doesn't know what "treason" means.

 

[MC Gas Money]

Obama can never be guilty of treason.

You have to be a citizen to commit treason.

 

[sho nuff]

Get beyond the word treason...any of those who support the Republicans want to really support this type of action?

 

[jonessed]

Very dumb. Respect the Office for crying out loud.

The current crop of republicans want power and they will not respect anyone or anything including issues of national security. Politics trumps all. Their plan is very transparent. Be the party that is perceived to be most on the side of Israel, win Florida, win the presidency. No such thing as an election cycle any more. The next election starts right after the last one ends and the business and welfare of the country are secondary.

This has become increasingly the issue, IMO. Both sides do it. Career politicians are basically campaigning 365 days a year. Even their votes while in office are not based upon the greater good, but getting re-elected.

Its way past time for term limits. These guys even have the gall to say they are Senate lifers in their letter to the Ayatollah. (another example of a lifer)

Then they just make their fortunes as lobbyists. We've created a very ugly situation for ourselves.

 

[tommyboy]

So now disagreement w president is treason

 

[Short Corner]

So now disagreement w president is treason

and racist.