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why ppr sux (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter smoker
- Start date
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Bump
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
You know what else sucks? Decapitating yourself. I don't do it though, so I don't have to worry about it. Good luck in your leagues.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
.5 for RBs
Ace Matherton
Footballguy
Why play in the league if you think it sucks? Sounds like an issue in choice of leagues rather than a poor scoring system.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
At best. I never liked PPR leagues.
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Obviously it's personal taste. I like PPR for WRs and TEs, take it or leave it for RBs. It just helps balance the scoring between elite WRs and top RBs. If you don't care if its balanced, then you won't care about PPR.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I love the way our league does it.
-1 point per reception for TEs
-.5 point per reception for WRs
-.25 point per reception for RBs
-1 point per reception for TEs
-.5 point per reception for WRs
-.25 point per reception for RBs
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
You are assigning negative points for receptions? Wow, that's an interesting twist on the scoring system.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
We give a negative point for kickers if they attempt a pooch punt
MrJimiT
Footballguy
If someone had to guts to even roster Vonta Leach, let alone start him in a playoff round, I say give that person more points than 6.1!!!
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The Shizzle
Footballguy
update?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Haha. Good one!phthalatemagic said:
cstu
Footballguy
I agree with this but I wonder if there are any sites that could implement the rule, maybe MFL?
PPR leagues are meant to give balance to WRs. The top RBs usually always outscore the top WRs in non-PPR leagues. In my league (FBGs + PPR), the top 2 WRs are Moss and Owens with 322 and 284 points. The top 2 RBs are Westbrook and LT with 313 and 299.Top RBs usually end up with more TDs and more total yards, so PPR leagues tend to make the top WRs as valuable as the top RBs. For instance, how many RBs have topped 20 TDs? Well, while you are counting that list in your head, there has only been 1 WR in 1 year that did that (2 after this year). Also, there have been many, many RBs to get to 2000 total yards or close to it. The highest single season for a WR is 1848.I personally like it that way because then there are more "studs" if you will.
gianmarco said:
Tons of examples of short yardage TD RBs who did very little in the game other than a couple carries.Again, if you really look at the top seasons for RBs and WRs, yardage and TD wise, you realize that top RBs get a lot fantasy points in standard scoring leagues. With PPR, the top WRs tend to get closer to the top RBs. There is usually at least one RB a year that puts up fantasy stats that are better or close to the all time best seasons by WRs. Look at this year. Even in my PPR league, Westbrook is barely behind Moss and Moss is putting up a record breaking type season for a WR. Westbrook is just putting up the #1 RB yearly stats.
Game 1 he had 4 catches for 7 yards. A fantasy scoring system should not be rewarding a performance like that.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
personally like .5 ppr for RBs, 1 ppr for WRs, and 1.5 ppr for TEs.
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
Why not?Game 1 he had 4 catches for 7 yards. A fantasy scoring system should not be rewarding a performance like that.
fsufan
Footballguy
This was the first year I have played in a PPR league and I am not sure I like it. Below are the top 30 RBs, WRs and TEs YTD FF points in this league (last nights game is included). I found some interesting FF stats.
League’s scoring is
1 PT/ 10 rush and rev. yards
6 PTs TDs
1 PPR
Only 10 RBs in the top 30
4 TEs in top 30
16 WRs in top 30
7 of the top 10 are WRs
14 of the top 20 are WRs or TEs
Is this a normal year for PPR leagues?
Player Total FF PT YTD
Moss, Randy WR NE 316
Westbrook, Brian RB PHI 312
Tomlinson, LaDainian RB SD 300
Owens, Terrell WR DAL 279
Houshmandzadeh, T.J. WR CIN 254
Wayne, Reggie WR IND 248
Edwards, Braylon WR CLE 246
Addai, Joseph RB IND 237
Welker, Wes WR NE 232
Fitzgerald, Larry WR ARI 232
Marshall, Brandon WR DEN 231
Johnson, Chad WR CIN 229
Colston, Marques WR NO 218
Peterson, Adrian RB MIN 217
Holt, Torry WR STL 217
Witten, Jason TE DAL 211
McGahee, Willis RB BAL 211
Burress, Plaxico WR NYG 206
Barber, Marion RB DAL 206
Gates, Antonio TE SD 204
Bush, Reggie RB NO 204
Gonzalez, Tony TE KC 198
Engram, Bobby WR SEA 195
Portis, Clinton RB WAS 195
Lewis, Jamal RB CLE 192
Graham, Earnest RB TB 191
Jennings, Greg WR GB 190
Winslow, Kellen TE CLE 189
White, Roddy WR ATL 188
Mason, Derrick WR BAL 185
League’s scoring is
1 PT/ 10 rush and rev. yards
6 PTs TDs
1 PPR
Only 10 RBs in the top 30
4 TEs in top 30
16 WRs in top 30
7 of the top 10 are WRs
14 of the top 20 are WRs or TEs
Is this a normal year for PPR leagues?
Player Total FF PT YTD
Moss, Randy WR NE 316
Westbrook, Brian RB PHI 312
Tomlinson, LaDainian RB SD 300
Owens, Terrell WR DAL 279
Houshmandzadeh, T.J. WR CIN 254
Wayne, Reggie WR IND 248
Edwards, Braylon WR CLE 246
Addai, Joseph RB IND 237
Welker, Wes WR NE 232
Fitzgerald, Larry WR ARI 232
Marshall, Brandon WR DEN 231
Johnson, Chad WR CIN 229
Colston, Marques WR NO 218
Peterson, Adrian RB MIN 217
Holt, Torry WR STL 217
Witten, Jason TE DAL 211
McGahee, Willis RB BAL 211
Burress, Plaxico WR NYG 206
Barber, Marion RB DAL 206
Gates, Antonio TE SD 204
Bush, Reggie RB NO 204
Gonzalez, Tony TE KC 198
Engram, Bobby WR SEA 195
Portis, Clinton RB WAS 195
Lewis, Jamal RB CLE 192
Graham, Earnest RB TB 191
Jennings, Greg WR GB 190
Winslow, Kellen TE CLE 189
White, Roddy WR ATL 188
Mason, Derrick WR BAL 185
Bush owners should get a bonus 10 points just for having him in their lineups. We'll call them "perception points" . . .Why not?Game 1 he had 4 catches for 7 yards. A fantasy scoring system should not be rewarding a performance like that.
gianmarco
Footballguy
No, this is NOT normal. This has, by far, been the year of the WR compared to RB's. To begin with, so many stud RB's have gone down due to injury. We don't need to rehash the list, but it's huge and has had a serious impact. Secondly, TE's have been involved even more this year than even in the recent past (or so it seems). And Moss is having a season for the ages and guys like TO and Housh and Wayne are having fantastic seasons that are being completely overshadowed.In my experience, the top 30 FF scorers are a pretty even mix of about 10 RB's, 10 WR's, and 10 QB's with 1 or 2 TE's sprinkled in. I like it because it doesn't make a league RB heavy and a draft RB heavy. People complain about guys like Bush or Westbrook getting so many more points bc of their receptions, but the thing is, everyone knows the rules going into the league and you have to realize that guys like Bush, Westy, KJ, etc. are just going to be worth that much more in a PPR league than not. Same goes for a guy like Housh or Welker or Colston that just catch a TON of balls. If you ignore this and draft with a non-ppr state of mind because you like to discount that kind of performance, then you are just shooting yourself in the foot. I personally like it because it's not just about stockpiling RB's and how a stud performance can win a week for you just like the same can happen with a stud QB or RB.
This is an UP year for passing stats. Is anyone noticing that Brady is going to break the all time passing TD record? Are they also missing Romo potentially getting 40 TDs as well, which has been done 3 times (2 by Marino in the 80s and once by Manning 3 years ago). Having 2 QBs over 40 TDs has never happened before. We also have a first year starter (DAnderson) who is on pass for 30+ TDs. That alone has probably put 4 extra guys in the top 30 (Welker, Witten, Edwards and Winslow) that weren't there last year and taken out at least one RB (Maroney).Also, people have been saying all year that RBs are down. LJ and Steven Jackson were top 5 IIRC and they aren't this year. Big Ben has taken a ton of FWP TDs from 2006, etc., etc. Off the top of my head, until last week (RoyW) I can't think of a pre-season top 15 WR that has been hurt for a substantial amount of time.If for some reason this trend continues, I would think about changing our rules, but I think the top 4 exemplifies what a PPR league is all about. The top 2 WRs and RBs are very close and by no coincidence, Westbrook and LT are two of the top RBs that have actually been healthy all year long.One other note, you made a great point about Bush. If you were in a PPR league, you would have known how valuable Bush was because of his 5-6 receptions a game. The only thing people should be complaining about Bush this year (I owned him) is that he wasn't turning the receptions into more points. 4 receptions for 7 yards is 4 points in my league. My opponent would be very glad that that was only 4 points and not 7 points (i.e. 4-30), like it should have been.
Yenrub
Footballguy
No they don't but then again catching a pass is harder to do than taking a handoff.It may not be worth a full point, but there is an additional skill needed to catch the pass that isn’t required to take a handoff.
CaGamblers
Footballguy
Our league doesn't give you a point until your 3rd catch - So 5 catches is 3pts
Let's not forget that the typical starting RB gets 20 or more chances to get yardage points every game...........top reciever average, what 6 chances a game???????
Yet a receiver is usually 10 or 15 yards downfield when he makes a catch, so his "carries" are worth much more. I guess I understand why some leagues do it. I just don't really like rewarding things that are irrelevant to the game. i.e. A WR getting 25 yds on a catch is relevant. Him making a catch for no gain isn't.
Fingers Freddie
Footballguy
I agree with you. He had an awful day and statistically in a PPR it isn't obvious.I think the best scoring system for performance scoring rewards real estate and not completions or receptions. If your scoring system is 0.1 pt/yd he gets 4.2 pts. If you give say 1pt/10 yards and 1pt/rec he gets 8. I think 4.2 better reflects the type of day he had.Currently I am Commish in a PPR league. We are already debating making the change to a decimal/yardage based scoring system for next year.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Catches are as irrelevant as yardage. Neither matter much if the end product doesn't produce points on the board in the whole scheme of things. So why do we award yardage? We've seen teams like Denver outproduce other teams by 200-300 yds in a game and still lose. So why is a RB that runs for 150 yds on the ground but doesn't score and his team loses bc he can't punch it in from the 1 yd line in 3 attempts gonna get rewarded when those yards were "irrelevant to the game". Catching the ball is as relevant as yards as it is to snapping the ball. They are performance markers that you can choose to include in your league or not. Remember that a lot of leagues when this started were TD leagues only. Since then, there are 1001 variations on how to score and PPR is just another one of them. To say it's irrelevant but think it's relevant to award points based on yardage doesn't make much sense to me.Along the same lines, do any of you play in bonus leagues? Either bonuses for milestones (100 yds rush/rec or 300 yds passing) or bonuses for long TDs? I'm sure there are quite a few that do. How is that relevant? Who's to say 100 yds is worth that much more than 99? It doesn't, but it adds another twist to fantasy football and actually requires a little more strategy (guys who hit those milestones more than others). No one is forcing anyone to adopt any specific scoring or rules, but don't put them down just because you don't happen to like them as there are pros and cons for EVERY scoring system. Would be similar to me starting a thread about how non-ppr leagues are garbage because RB's completely dominate them. If that's what you like, then enjoy.
footballnerd
Footballguy
Young only got 6.7 pts in our league and we got 0.5 ppr. Think yall are paying too much per reception or something cause I dont know how you got 8.
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
By any reasonable standard, 50 yards rushing = 50 yards receiving.
Yardage = 1st downs. Yardage gets your team closer to scoring. If your team does not score, yardage will make it so that your opponent will need to drive longer for them to score. That matters.
Receptions, rushing attempts, and passing attempts/completions are not the same thing as production. A zero yard completion/reception is just as meaningless as a zero yard carry. Not saying reception do NOT matter.... they just matter much less than actually moving the ball.
10 yards is 10 yards, however it is gained.
(from an old ppr thread)
Many ppr leagues only give a point for WR and TE receptions. So this is what happens:
Rudi Johnson 1430+ yards, 12 TDs. Very solid. 215 fantasy points.
Hines Ward 1000 yards, 6 TDs, 74 rec. Pretty average. 210 fantasy points.
400 fewer yards, 6 fewer TDs, the same fantasy points. C'mon.
Yardage = 1st downs. Yardage gets your team closer to scoring. If your team does not score, yardage will make it so that your opponent will need to drive longer for them to score. That matters.
Receptions, rushing attempts, and passing attempts/completions are not the same thing as production. A zero yard completion/reception is just as meaningless as a zero yard carry. Not saying reception do NOT matter.... they just matter much less than actually moving the ball.
10 yards is 10 yards, however it is gained.
(from an old ppr thread)
Many ppr leagues only give a point for WR and TE receptions. So this is what happens:
Rudi Johnson 1430+ yards, 12 TDs. Very solid. 215 fantasy points.
Hines Ward 1000 yards, 6 TDs, 74 rec. Pretty average. 210 fantasy points.
400 fewer yards, 6 fewer TDs, the same fantasy points. C'mon.
LAUNCH
Footballguy
This is why we use 1pt for every 8 yards receiving for WR/TEs. In this case Hines would score 155 pts which isn't as outrageous as the 210, but makes him a bit more valuable than the 130 he would score in most systems.LAUNCH
Johnny Ice
Footballguy
Pretty much the same in my league except the points don't kick in until the 5th reception. It's our first year doing PPR and it has worked out well. I could see how PPR starting at 1 being overkill.
BusterTBronco
Footballguy
Don't like ppr? Don't play in ppr leagues, then.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
How can you tell if it's a pooch punt or not?
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I feel very strongly that leagues with PPR are not as good. I feel even stronger that any league with PPR for a RB is not worth playing.
H.K.
Footballguy
Different scoring systems value players in different ways, but only the really good FF'ers will do well in any scoring system. The fun part of the hobby is the challenge of winning in all formats. My guess would be that the people who don't like PPR are the ones who haven't figured out how to win in that format, so they think it's luck or a stupid way to score. The scoring system is the same for everyone in the league. Get better at knowing who the best players are in the format instead of whining about how the league scores.
Nemesis
Footballguy
My league ----> .5 pts for every 2nd reception (RBs, WRs, TEs)It gives SOME points for receptions, but our league still values Yds and TDs a lot more.Also, the 1 reception for zero or negative yds doesn't get rewarded nearly as much as 1pprAlso, I agree with some of the above posters that said adjusting Starting Lineup reqmts is crucial to getting the right balance. I'm not a fan of Flex players and prefer to try to balance things out by having 2 RBs and 3 WRs. That way, a team with 3 strong WRs can compete against the teams that loaded up on RBs......adds variety to the draft. (with Flex positions, even more RBs are hoarded leaving absolutely nothing on the FA list)
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Yeap... My system awards .5 ppr, .2 per carrier for RBs... This balances out performances like that.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Not really the best way to look at this argument. I can pull out lots of specific example as well such as this to prove the point the other way.The better way to look at it is this. I'll use 2006 #'s since that's where you're getting your #'s.The #11 ranked RB in 2006 was Rudi Johnson. In a 1 PPR scoring format, he scored 238 pts.The #11 ranked WR in 2006 was Andre Johnson. In a 1 PPR scoring format, he scored 249 pts.The #20 ranked RB in 2006 was Fred Taylor. In a 1 PPR scoring format, he scored 198 pts.The #20 ranked WR in 2006 was Terry Glenn. In a 1 PPR scoring format, he scored 212 pts. At the same time, the #1 scoring WR in 2006 was Marvin Harrison with 303 pts. There were 5 RB's that scored more, and considerably more at that. LT had 483, SJax had 420, LJ had 375, Westbrook had 335, and Gore had 333. Also, Barber and Parker were at 300 and 299, respectively. So even with 1 PPR, your top RB's still outscore the top WR's by a significant margin.What PPR scoring does is level the playing field between WR's and RB's. As you can see, PPR still doesn't keep RB's from dominating the top, with the exception of this year. What it does do is add a little parity to the scoring. Without the PPR, you've got a guy like Houshmandzadeh score 163 pts in non-PPR which was good enough for #11 among WR's in that scoring and still getting outscored by Kevin Jones who put up 169 pts but was ranked #23 among RB's.To me, when the #23 ranked RB is outscoring the #11 ranked WR (a #2 RB vs. a #1 WR), something is wrong. PPR levels the playing field while still allowing the studs to shine.
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Something needs to be done to level the playing field for kickers. The top kicker in my league has 119 total points to LT's 253.
Here's what I propose:
2 points for extra points
5 points for field goals less than 50
9 points for field goals greater than 50
an additional point for each time the kicker's foot touches the ball
My guess would be that the people who don't like this proposed scoring would be the ones who haven't figured out how to win in this format, so they think it's luck or a stupid way to score.
Here's what I propose:
2 points for extra points
5 points for field goals less than 50
9 points for field goals greater than 50
an additional point for each time the kicker's foot touches the ball
My guess would be that the people who don't like this proposed scoring would be the ones who haven't figured out how to win in this format, so they think it's luck or a stupid way to score.
