Why Simms is losing out to Garcia (1 Viewer)

[burd]

I guess this sheds some light on why Simms is losing the race for the starting QB job in TB or maybe Simms is just making excuses.

Regardless of whether it's Garcia or Simms, this is not a very good team and i'd be surprised if they win half of their games. Garcia was very good last season on a talented Philly squad. He's in for a rude awakening come Sept. because TB is not as talented.

http://www.pewterreport.com/articles/view/3069

 

[Pitch12]

Simms wasn't even that good when he played. He is a formidable backup at best. With Garcia, at least the Bucs are getting a QB that can win some games and make some plays. Simms has and never will get the job done.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Thanks for posting that. I think Simms has what it takes to be a good NFL QB. In fact, I expect him to eventually emerge as the starter and fare pretty well. I realize Garcia is getting the nod right now, but I've seen enough Jeff Garcia games in the last few seasons to know that his days of being a good-great starter are long gone.

 

[burd]

Thanks for posting that. I think Simms has what it takes to be a good NFL QB. In fact, I expect him to eventually emerge as the starter and fare pretty well. I realize Garcia is getting the nod right now, but I've seen enough Jeff Garcia games in the last few seasons to know that his days of being a good-great starter are long gone.

Unless the OL has been upgraded from last season, even Peyton Manning would have trouble running that offense effectively. Has TB addressed the OL at all this past offseason?

 

[zed2283]

Simms wasn't even that good of a college QB. He'll never be more than a serviceable backup in the NFL.

 

[zoonation]

Thanks for posting that. I think Simms has what it takes to be a good NFL QB. In fact, I expect him to eventually emerge as the starter and fare pretty well. I realize Garcia is getting the nod right now, but I've seen enough Jeff Garcia games in the last few seasons to know that his days of being a good-great starter are long gone.

I would argue that he was a good-great starter as recently as last year. He ran that Philly offence really well and didn't turn the ball over.I agree he will struggle this year though...but he is a gamer.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Simms wasn't even that good of a college QB. He'll never be more than a serviceable backup in the NFL.

Simms best college comparison is Brady Quinn, actually. He was lights out against teams where raw talent was all you needed, and mediocre to terrible against good teams that required a gameplan and adjustments. I am/was hopeful that Gruden and Co. could help him learn to rely on his brain as much as his physical tools.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Thanks for posting that. I think Simms has what it takes to be a good NFL QB. In fact, I expect him to eventually emerge as the starter and fare pretty well. I realize Garcia is getting the nod right now, but I've seen enough Jeff Garcia games in the last few seasons to know that his days of being a good-great starter are long gone.

I would argue that he was a good-great starter as recently as last year. He ran that Philly offence really well and didn't turn the ball over.I agree he will struggle this year though...but he is a gamer.

Agreed, but the sample size is small enough that chalking it up to O-line and system (especially when a guy like AJ Feeley has similar recent success) is viable.

 

[Enraged Nerfball]

Thanks for posting that. I think Simms has what it takes to be a good NFL QB. In fact, I expect him to eventually emerge as the starter and fare pretty well. I realize Garcia is getting the nod right now, but I've seen enough Jeff Garcia games in the last few seasons to know that his days of being a good-great starter are long gone.

Unless the OL has been upgraded from last season, even Peyton Manning would have trouble running that offense effectively. Has TB addressed the OL at all this past offseason?

Yes they have. In fact pretty significant moves. Picked up Pettigout from the Giants to play the LT position and drafted Aaron Sears from Tennessee in the 2nd rd. Coupled with another year of experience for second year players Trueblood at RT and Davin Joseph at RG and you have a very promising OL. I think we have turned the corner on the OL and with the talent of infusion on the defensive side of the ball I think Tampa will surprise some people this year. They will be much better than last year. My guess would be 8-8. Finally I think Garcia had the job the day he was signed, regardless of what Gruden may have said. He will be expected to manage the offense while limiting turnovers and big mistakes. Keep in mind Gruden's biggest years have been with older QB's who didn't necessarily possess tremendous physical skills (Brad johnson and Rich Gannon) but were smart saavy veterans who could manage a game and put the team in position to win.

 

[Heinz 57]

I actually liked what I saw from Simms in his brief NFL stint. The Bucs were not a very good team in 2006, of course he was going to get killed in there. He's a tough kid, finished out the game with his spleen torn up. His accuracy is decent (ignore the first 2 games of 2006).

The game he got hurt vs. Carolina his line was...

Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds Att Yds Avg Lg TD Fum Rec

09/24 CAR L 24-26 24 13 54.2 139 1 1 67.9 1 10 2 1 0.5 2 1 0 0

Career he has a 60% completion percentage, not awful.

That being said I can totally understand why Garcia is the starter. He seems like a quick fix for the situation. In my opinion though, people in Tampa are going to be reminded that football is a team sport and that an aging Garcia isn't the answer. He may outperfrom the QBs of 2006, but thats not saying much. I would be surprised if this team finishes around 8-8.

 

[Beaumont]

Just remembering this thread ...

Rivers v. Sims

 

[Guinis72]

I don't know what happened to Simms between the end of '05 and begining of '06 but, IMO, his biggest problem is that he doesn't look for lanes to throw through which resulted in the 7 batted balls in 3 games. Maybe D-coordinators caught this on tape and had their linemen get their hands up when playing TB in '06 moreso than '05?

I think Simms can be effective if he can correct this problem, but until he does, I definately see Garcia as giving them the best chance to win.

 

[Marc Faletti]

Simms wasn't even that good of a college QB. He'll never be more than a serviceable backup in the NFL.

Simms best college comparison is Brady Quinn, actually. He was lights out against teams where raw talent was all you needed, and mediocre to terrible against good teams that required a gameplan and adjustments. I am/was hopeful that Gruden and Co. could help him learn to rely on his brain as much as his physical tools.

Wait. Huh? Wha? Brady Quinn's teams were top 25 talented. Chris Simms' teams were top 5 talented. That matters.Sucre, they both sucked in big games -- and make no mistake about it, Simms was far worse than Quinn on any and every big stage of his career -- but doesn't make them a fair comparison. And Simms has every physical tool you could want in a QB, whereas Quinn maybe lacks that extra zip, especially to the sideline.Simms was terrible against good teams in college. He has consistenly been terrible in the NFL. He just doesn't have a head for the game -- he struggles to make basic reads of his own WRs, much less of a complex defense. I don't like Quinn, but it's really unfair to Brady to compare him to Chris Simms. Gruden was right to go get someone else, especially someone who doesn't need bledsoe-esque amounts of time to get rid of the ball and someone who can buy time with his feet.

 

[turkishkamel]

Simms wasn't even that good of a college QB. He'll never be more than a serviceable backup in the NFL.

Simms best college comparison is Brady Quinn, actually. He was lights out against teams where raw talent was all you needed, and mediocre to terrible against good teams that required a gameplan and adjustments. I am/was hopeful that Gruden and Co. could help him learn to rely on his brain as much as his physical tools.

the talent that chris simms played with at texas was well beyond anything quinn ever had at ND. i dont believe that is a fair comparison at all. give quinn that kind of talent (esp. on defense to hold games) and he fares muich better than simms. simms was overhyped from the day he arrived at texas and has done nothing to even remotely live up to it since.

 

[softball]

I honestly believe that Simms pisses Gruden of becuase he's left handed. Simple as that may sound it does impact the protection and positioning.

And why deal with those annoyances if you can find a righty that does just as well?

JMHO

 

[switz]

I honestly believe that Simms pisses Gruden of becuase he's left handed. Simple as that may sound it does impact the protection and positioning.And why deal with those annoyances if you can find a righty that does just as well?JMHO

Wasn't Rich Gannon left handed?

 

[turkishkamel]

I honestly believe that Simms pisses Gruden of becuase he's left handed. Simple as that may sound it does impact the protection and positioning.

And why deal with those annoyances if you can find a righty that does just as well?

JMHO

Wasn't Rich Gannon left handed?

nopeGannon

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Congrats to Jim Flynn and Scott Reynolds, our good friends from the Pewter Report, for getting a shout out yesterday on NFL Network Now!

 

[a_troll00]

I've never been big on Chris Simms, even at Texas. In fact, I will go out and say he never should have had the starting job over Major Applewhite. That was pretty much proven during the 2001, Big 12 Championship Game against Colorado. If Applewhite was the starter the entire season, and started that Championship game, Texas probably would have won the national championship that season (but that's just my opinion).

 

[nygiants56]

I guess this sheds some light on why Simms is losing the race for the starting QB job in TB or maybe Simms is just making excuses.

Regardless of whether it's Garcia or Simms, this is not a very good team and i'd be surprised if they win half of their games. Garcia was very good last season on a talented Philly squad. He's in for a rude awakening come Sept. because TB is not as talented.

http://www.pewterreport.com/articles/view/3069

downgrade Caddy Williams accordingly. Those who think he'll be a top 10 RB in 2007, are in for a rude awakening..

 

[zed2283]

I've never been big on Chris Simms, even at Texas. In fact, I will go out and say he never should have had the starting job over Major Applewhite. That was pretty much proven during the 2001, Big 12 Championship Game against Colorado. If Applewhite was the starter the entire season, and started that Championship game, Texas probably would have won the national championship that season (but that's just my opinion).

That's exactly right. I was going to make that point if someone had questioned my statement that Simms wasn't really that good in college. I was very disappointed when Applewhite decided not to play in the NFL.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

I've never been big on Chris Simms, even at Texas. In fact, I will go out and say he never should have had the starting job over Major Applewhite. That was pretty much proven during the 2001, Big 12 Championship Game against Colorado. If Applewhite was the starter the entire season, and started that Championship game, Texas probably would have won the national championship that season (but that's just my opinion).

That's exactly right. I was going to make that point if someone had questioned my statement that Simms wasn't really that good in college. I was very disappointed when Applewhite decided not to play in the NFL.

Applewhite was going to make any team. He was 6', 205 and went undrafted. He went to NE for a few days and saw that he was out of his league physically.

 

[Penguin]

Simms wasn't even that good of a college QB. He'll never be more than a serviceable backup in the NFL.

Simms best college comparison is Brady Quinn, actually. He was lights out against teams where raw talent was all you needed, and mediocre to terrible against good teams that required a gameplan and adjustments. I am/was hopeful that Gruden and Co. could help him learn to rely on his brain as much as his physical tools.

Colin, While I respect your opinion, I just don't think Simms has "it" I'm also a firm believer in that Gruden's Super Bowl victory should be credited to Tony Dungy as Tony built the Defense and was let go a year too early in my opinion. I don't think Gruden will make a lick of difference here, we're looking at a guy whose dad was a heck of a field general but his son just doesn't have the complete package to succeed in the NFL.

 

[zed2283]

I've never been big on Chris Simms, even at Texas. In fact, I will go out and say he never should have had the starting job over Major Applewhite. That was pretty much proven during the 2001, Big 12 Championship Game against Colorado. If Applewhite was the starter the entire season, and started that Championship game, Texas probably would have won the national championship that season (but that's just my opinion).

That's exactly right. I was going to make that point if someone had questioned my statement that Simms wasn't really that good in college. I was very disappointed when Applewhite decided not to play in the NFL.

Applewhite was going to make any team. He was 6', 205 and went undrafted. He went to NE for a few days and saw that he was out of his league physically.

That's probably true. He was a longshot, but I was pulling for him because of the way he got screwed at Texas.

 

[RD1967]

Thanks for posting that. I think Simms has what it takes to be a good NFL QB. In fact, I expect him to eventually emerge as the starter and fare pretty well. I realize Garcia is getting the nod right now, but I've seen enough Jeff Garcia games in the last few seasons to know that his days of being a good-great starter are long gone.

Good NFL QB or not the Dude is tough and has my deepest respect. Playing with internal bleeding and in terrible pain is just plain crazy competative.

 

[bostonfred]

I'm also a firm believer in that Gruden's Super Bowl victory should be credited to Tony Dungy as Tony built the Defense and was let go a year too early in my opinion. I don't think Gruden will make a lick of difference here, we're looking at a guy whose dad was a heck of a field general but his son just doesn't have the complete package to succeed in the NFL.

I think you're way off here. Oakland looked really good until Gruden left town. Callahan unabashedly used Gruden's system to get them to the Superbowl the next year, but took a whooping from Gruden's Bucs. Tampa couldn't close games under Dungy. Dungy did a great job with the defense, and deserves all the credit in the world for the coaching, talent evaluation, and design of that defense, but Gruden took them to the next level, and he did it with another over the hill journeyman, Brad Johnson, at quarterback. Garcia seems like a solid fit here. A mobile quarterback behind a retooled offensive line, a veteran who has been in multiple systems who should be able to learn Gruden's offense easily, with a talented running back and receivers who know the system well. The one thing I would want is for Garcia and Clayton to spend some time together this offseason and try to get him back on track. There's no reason Clayton can't be an absolute stud with a good QB in that system. It's a shame that he's wasting all that talent.

 

[turkishkamel]

I've never been big on Chris Simms, even at Texas. In fact, I will go out and say he never should have had the starting job over Major Applewhite. That was pretty much proven during the 2001, Big 12 Championship Game against Colorado. If Applewhite was the starter the entire season, and started that Championship game, Texas probably would have won the national championship that season (but that's just my opinion).

agreed. applewhite held (most) every major texas passing record at the time he was benched. major proved to be the leader simms wasnt in the above mentioned Big 12 championship game and in the Holiday Bowl (which he started over Simms). he may not have been the sexy pro prospect simms was, but he was a better quarterback. and he beat oklahoma, something simms couldnt do.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I think Simms biggest problem is that he isn't very good relative to other QB's in the NFL.

He's a solid 2nd/3rd stringer though.

 

[Sopranos]

Garcia is 37. He is on a bad team and we have seen his act on bad teams before. Atleast Simms has youth on his side. Its just an old NFL team getting older and a good reason to stay far away from an over -valued Caddy...Galloway will be usefull some weeks but TB is useless fantasy wise.

 

[BigTex]

I've never been big on Chris Simms, even at Texas. In fact, I will go out and say he never should have had the starting job over Major Applewhite. That was pretty much proven during the 2001, Big 12 Championship Game against Colorado. If Applewhite was the starter the entire season, and started that Championship game, Texas probably would have won the national championship that season (but that's just my opinion).

You took these words right out of my mouth.MA>>>>>>>CSThe ONLY reason Chris started at Texas was because of the pressure which was coming from you know who.

 

[BigTex]

Simms wasn't even that good of a college QB. He'll never be more than a serviceable backup in the NFL.

Simms best college comparison is Brady Quinn, actually. He was lights out against teams where raw talent was all you needed, and mediocre to terrible against good teams that required a gameplan and adjustments. I am/was hopeful that Gruden and Co. could help him learn to rely on his brain as much as his physical tools.

Colin, While I respect your opinion, I just don't think Simms has "it" I'm also a firm believer in that Gruden's Super Bowl victory should be credited to Tony Dungy as Tony built the Defense and was let go a year too early in my opinion. I don't think Gruden will make a lick of difference here, we're looking at a guy whose dad was a heck of a field general but his son just doesn't have the complete package to succeed in the NFL.

I've always said this, and I still think Chucky is the most over-rated coach in the NFL

 

[BigTex]

Just remembering this thread ...

Rivers v. Sims

Post #11 and #19 are right on.

 

[Jayrod]

I've never been big on Chris Simms, even at Texas. In fact, I will go out and say he never should have had the starting job over Major Applewhite. That was pretty much proven during the 2001, Big 12 Championship Game against Colorado. If Applewhite was the starter the entire season, and started that Championship game, Texas probably would have won the national championship that season (but that's just my opinion).

You took these words right out of my mouth.

MA>>>>>>>CS

The ONLY reason Chris started at Texas was because of the pressure which was coming from you know who.

I love it when people say this. Maybe it is true on occasion at the High School level, but in big-time-national-championship-contending college, players play because they are thought to be the best, not because someone is pressuring the coach to play him. Simms had great tools and probably was more impressive in practice and that's why he started.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

I've always said this, and I still think Chucky is the most over-rated coach in the NFL

Chucky's glaring deficiency isn't coaching -- rather, he is a terrible GM/talent evaluator. He was able to work wonders with the Raiders, where Al Davis built the talent for Gruden. Then he moves onto Tampa, where he wins a Super Bowl with someone else's talent. Once Gruden gets power over personnel moves, what happens? Poor decision making both in the draft and free agency, and a gradual erosion of the talent level. But it's pretty tough to argue that he's an over-rated coach. He took over Dungy's team - which hadn't been able to take the next playoff step - and turned it into a Super Bowl winner. In one year. That can't just be due to roster moves, it has to be related to quality coaching.

Are you trying to argue that Dungy would have won the Super Bowl with Tampa in 2003? That just seems like a really difficult argument to make.

 

[gump]

Simms wasn't even that good of a college QB. He'll never be more than a serviceable backup in the NFL.

Simms best college comparison is Brady Quinn, actually. He was lights out against teams where raw talent was all you needed, and mediocre to terrible against good teams that required a gameplan and adjustments. I am/was hopeful that Gruden and Co. could help him learn to rely on his brain as much as his physical tools.

Colin, While I respect your opinion, I just don't think Simms has "it" I'm also a firm believer in that Gruden's Super Bowl victory should be credited to Tony Dungy as Tony built the Defense and was let go a year too early in my opinion. I don't think Gruden will make a lick of difference here, we're looking at a guy whose dad was a heck of a field general but his son just doesn't have the complete package to succeed in the NFL.

Good grief. How many times do we need to go over this? Anyone who thinks Gruden didn't make a "lick" of difference is simply uninformed or biased.The Bucs won the Super Bowl because the OFFENSE was able to dominate their side of the ball, coupled with the dominant defense. a) Dungy should be credited for bringing respect to the franchise as well has helping to build the teamb) Sam Wyche should be credited for drafting Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, and John Lynchc) and Jon Gruden should be credited for creating the offense that rolled thru the playoffs by dominating the TOP and controlling the game thru the run and a short passing attack.As far as Simms goes...I think he can be a successful NFL starter...just not in Gruden's offense.