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Why soccer will never be big in the USA....... (3 Viewers)

Doug B said:
I enjoy watching soccer ... but this is my single biggest beef with the game -- lack of comebacks.

Yes, yes ... it happens. Sure. But, say, a USMT going down 2-0 against a top-5 side (Brazil, Germany, etc.) has less than 0.1% chance of coming back to win (draws just don't seem to do it, though in group play they can obviously be important). Just an aspect of the sport, and it is what it is. But it does take a lot of juice out of some games.
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It is true that a team with a decided advantage over another team (such as Germany against the USA) can shut the game down at 2-0.  Some of the great managers are able to suck the life out of the game with their teams, once they are ahead.  Especially when the team on the losing end lacks firepower, this can seem boring I'm sure.

But then, it's not much different than what the Broncos did last season.  Build a lead, then run the clock and play great defense.  Same concept and we've seen it in football for years and years.

I'm in my 3rd year of club soccer and the one area I still struggle with is enjoying a soccer game with poor attacking teams.  My attention can drift pretty quickly and I'll likely not watch a Hull City vs Swansea City contest.  But then, I'm very selective in the college football games or even the pro football games that I'll sit through as well. 

Let's face it, all sports have a certain % of games that just flat out stink.  Soccer is no different.

 
El Floppo said:
:lol:

I'm not trying to be combative here, but what was your point in saying " And yet, mostly all soccer is is kicking a ball. "? these guys misunderstood something and now you're frustrated?
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He was pointing out how boring football was when they kicked a ball.  I just stated soccer was mostly kicking a ball.  

 
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El Floppo said:
the free-flowing, adaptive part is one that JK brought up that I find interesting: US sports involve a lot of plays being called from the bench and/or stopping to discuss them- could be that US kids' mentality doesn't take as easily to having to call their own shots on the field in a more fluid situation.
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That's why we have parents to tell the kids what to do and how to do it.

 
Doug B said:
I enjoy watching soccer ... but this is my single biggest beef with the game -- lack of comebacks.

Yes, yes ... it happens. Sure. But, say, a USMT going down 2-0 against a top-5 side (Brazil, Germany, etc.) has less than 0.1% chance of coming back to win (draws just don't seem to do it, though in group play they can obviously be important). Just an aspect of the sport, and it is what it is. But it does take a lot of juice out of some games.
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Sorry to say but it's because USMNT kindof sucks....

 
cstu said:
FreeBaGeL said:
I think the opposite.  I mean, the comparison you're using there is basically like Kentucky going down 28-0 against Alabama in the 1st quarter.  They're not coming back either.

Really though, in a more even match even a "large" two goal lead can suddenly become a close game in about 5 seconds.  Just 1 goal and all of the sudden it's now a one score game and every time they get the ball they have a chance to tie it up, the crowd is back into it, etc.  In football it takes a large collection of plays over a relatively long period of time to get back into a game that was a blowout.

I was watching Liverpool/Arsenal to open this year's EPL season the other day and people were leaving the stadium when Liverpool took a 4-1 lead.  Not 5 minutes later (in real time, not just game time) it was 4-3 and the stadium was rocking and they were a couple of close shots away from tying the game up.
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The team that scores first only loses 20% of the time.  With a 2-0 lead that percentage goes down to 2%.

In football a team up 14 points after the first quarter has a 12.5% chance of losing and at halftime they have a 7.1% change of losing.

Being down 2 goals in soccer is the same as being down 20 points at halftime in football in terms of winning.
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Do your numbers take into account NFL games that are tied at the end of regulation?

 
My main issue with soccer isn't the amount of scoring in of itself.  My problem is that the refs are the single biggest factor in scoring.  I would like to see scoring up only to reduce the importance of bad calls by the refs.  

 
cstu said:
The team that scores first only loses 20% of the time.  With a 2-0 lead that percentage goes down to 2%.

In football a team up 14 points after the first quarter has a 12.5% chance of losing and at halftime they have a 7.1% change of losing.

Being down 2 goals in soccer is the same as being down 20 points at halftime in football in terms of winning.
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A 2-0 lead in soccer is a bigger lead than a 14-0 lead in football because points are scored less frequently.  Roughly half as often (not even accounting for FGs) so a 2-0 lead in soccer is more like a 28-0 lead in football in terms of how likely the team is to hold on to the lead.

Yet in spite of that, a team can come back from a 2-0 lead to the point where it actually feels like a competitive game again much more quickly.  Instantly, really.  One goal and now it's a 1-score game that they can tie at any time.

Think of the game the USA got knocked out of the World Cup.  They were down 2-0 late.  The game felt basically over.  USA fans were just sitting around watching sullenly.  Then Julian Green scores a goal, one goal that took all of about 5 seconds, and all the sudden it feels like a competitive game again.  The stands are rocking, the announcers are excited, your heart is pounding watching on TV.

To get that same kind of recovery on a similar "the game is basically over" lead in football you've basically got to score 3 TDs in a row, quickly, which is not only unlikely but also requires a long string of things going right.  In soccer, one break goes your way and all of the sudden that insurmountable lead now feels so close you can touch it.  Even if statistically you know that actually overcoming the 2-0 deficit is unlikely, try and tell that to your pounding heart when every touch your team makes has the potential to tie the game.

 
BassNBrew said:
My main issue with soccer isn't the amount of scoring in of itself.  My problem is that the refs are the single biggest factor in scoring.  I would like to see scoring up only to reduce the importance of bad calls by the refs.  
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Refs aren't the single biggest factor in scoring.  That's absurd.

 
eoMMan said:
And allow more points....that will make soccer entertaining.
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Yeah! One point for a goal inside the box, except headers, they're worth 1.5, 2 points for goals outside the box but in the run of play. 3 points for goals directly from free kicks, 2.5 if they're deflected. 5 points for all goals scored by  :fro:  and 10 points for all goals assisted by  :coffee:

 
Christo said:
Yeah! One point for a goal inside the box, except headers, they're worth 1.5, 2 points for goals outside the box but in the run of play. 3 points for goals directly from free kicks, 2.5 if they're deflected. 5 points for all goals scored by  :fro:  and 10 points for all goals assisted by  :coffee:
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Or make some guys only able to crawl...no running. 

 
I grew up next to a playground.  We mainly played football and basketball.  Fast pitch with the strike zone painted on the school wall and softball too as we actually had a diamond but no back stop.  Soccer just never happened.  Ton of whiffleball too.  

I have little interest in watching it but I have less interest than ever currently in the NFL.  Hockey is as good as it gets for me.

 
Explain that to me like I'm shuke.

BassNBrew said:
My main issue with soccer isn't the amount of scoring in of itself.  My problem is that the refs are the single biggest factor in scoring.  I would like to see scoring up only to reduce the importance of bad calls by the refs.  
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The Z Machine said:
Explain that to me like I'm shuke.
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I think what he is saying is one blown offside call (either way) can massively affect a game.

Also one blown PK call (either way) can massively affect a game.

A low scoring sport is much more susceptible to refs affecting the outcomes of games by one or two mistakes.

 
The Z Machine said:
Explain that to me like I'm shuke.

BassNBrew said:
My main issue with soccer isn't the amount of scoring in of itself.  My problem is that the refs are the single biggest factor in scoring.  I would like to see scoring up only to reduce the importance of bad calls by the refs.  
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First of all I'll admit that I'm biased after watching 60-70 live college, ODP, regional, and academy games in the last 12 months but this issue has rolled over into many EPL games I've watched and the COPA finals.  The refs more often than not influence the outcome of most close games.  There's no consistency on red/yellow cards and they're pulled far to often.  Offsides calls are blown regularly.  I've seen three clear goals not counted as the defender kicked the ball out after it was over the line.  I have no idea when a foul in the box is a PK and when it's a non-call and apparently neither do the refs as it's totally random.  

There's so little scoring in soccer that a bad call by a ref resulting in a goal or negating one has a huge impact on the winner and loser.  As much as I love the NFL playoffs, I think league soccer gets it right with no playoffs for their sport.  Over a season the bad calls have a chance to even out.  It's just hard investing time into a single soccer game knowing the outcome is likely going to be tainted.  Obviously officiating is an issue in all sports, but in leagues like the NBA a ref impacting 20 points during a game is only 10% of the scoring.  I read somewhere that 40% of the EPL goals came off set pieces.  The ref has a made a call in all of those cases.  Obviously many are no brainers but many are judgment calls.

This isn't a big deal if I don't have a strong rooting interest.  I can enjoy the athletic talent 

 
Fair points and well written.  I still think that "the better team" still wins 75% of the time, and the ref really only flips a win to a loss like 5% of the time.  The other 20% are just lucky beaks.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Knowing this, your thread title appears to be fairly ironic.
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Only if it wasn't over 2 years ago when I started this thread.  You know the year I was in 70 fantasy football leagues.  I never seen a poster try so hard to be clever and continously fail but keep trying.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I will answer. 
 

Much as with football, much is going on.  I could replace a few key words in that description and accurately describe football.  None of which is to say that you should enjoy soccer or that soccer is going to be big in America.  Again, I don't know and I don't care.  It is, however, more than just kicking a ball.

People may prefer higher or lower scoring sports, of course, but I doubt that is really happening in most cases.  Few prefer arena football to the NFL, despite the higher scores.  And people who routinely decry soccer for being low scoring may also decry basketball for being too high scoring.  In both soccer and football, excitement is not derived solely by scoring.  The average football game features any number of relatively boring scoring plays.  Not just field goals, but short runs and passes with very little drama.  But the short touchdown may have been precipitated by a truly exciting play.  Or the prevention of a scoring play may have been exciting.  The same is true for soccer. 
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RHE is our savior....agreed?... obviously, us lower brain forms need a savior, even if he worships at the Altar of Arsene..

 
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Ping pong Ching Chong is just hitting a ball.  See the lad walked to the pub and some bloke said cricket is a real sport 

 
Let's just accept Z's always brilliant analysis(I really mean that),  we'll never convince others, & Roma will never win another Scudetto under Totti...sad, but true.

 
Doug B said:
I enjoy watching soccer ... but this is my single biggest beef with the game -- lack of comebacks.

Yes, yes ... it happens. Sure. But, say, a USMT going down 2-0 against a top-5 side (Brazil, Germany, etc.) has less than 0.1% chance of coming back to win (draws just don't seem to do it, though in group play they can obviously be important). Just an aspect of the sport, and it is what it is. But it does take a lot of juice out of some games.
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You referred to a team as a side. You like soccer. You like it. 

 
Fariq said:
You referred to a team as a side. You like soccer. You like it. 
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No ####, Sherlock.

eta:sorry...no, #### that ####... YES...WE LIKE SOCCER....OUR PANTIES ARE IN A BUNCH....BUT WE STILL LIKE SOCCER!

 
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17seconds said:
It won't be popular because there isn't enough scoring. And it may actually be gayer than tennis.
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Well, in tennis, I rarely ever see a person get hit by a ball, then pretend he or she is close to death, and then play again two minutes later as if nothing is wrong. 

 
Fariq said:
Well, in tennis, I rarely ever see a person get hit by a ball, then pretend he or she is close to death, and then play again two minutes later as if nothing is wrong. 
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Alright, now feck you again!

Why does soccer bother you so     ?!...watch tennis, & leave us nerds alone.

 
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Kafka said:
Alright, now feck you again!

Why does soccer bother you so     ?!...watch tennis, & leave us nerds alone.
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I don't watch tennis. Soccer does not bother me. I just wanted to read some comments here and then I posted some stuff. Not trying to annoy or troll or whatever you think is going on. They let me post here, so I posted. I will read other things on the internet the rest of the night before I fall asleep.

 
Fariq said:
I don't watch tennis. Soccer does not bother me. I just wanted to read some comments here and then I posted some stuff. Not trying to annoy or troll or whatever you think is going on. They let me post here, so I posted. I will read other things on the internet the rest of the night before I fall asleep.
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I overreacted, and apologize.

eta: I really love this game....

 
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