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Why Tim Tebow Will Become a Franchise Quarterback (1 Viewer)

madd futher

Footballguy
I truly had planned on writing this article regardless of whether the Broncos won or lost to Pittsburgh in their first play-off game - at least if Tebow did not come out playing not to lose. Please understand that this is from one who was NOT a fan of Tebow coming out of Florida. After reviewing his performance during Senior Bowl week two years ago, I really didn’t thing he would have an NFL future as a quarterback. He simply had too much to overcome: absolutely no idea of what he was doing in the pocket, bad footwork, elongated delivery, locking on to receivers, no reads to the right side of the field….the list went on. Yes, some scouts were impressed by his leadership skills and his work ethic, but he just did not have the skills to be an NFL QB.

I know there are many of you who believe he still has too far to go to ever be elite or maybe even adequate, but I believe you are wrong. If you heard or saw anything from that Senior Bowl week, you would appreciate how far he’s already come even considering his regression in the games leading up to the contest with the Steelers.

Let me digress. I remember the first time I ever saw the Eye of the Tiger. I was coaching a 6th grade basketball game (my son was one of the guards on that team). A big heavy kid who had taken a few weeks off from the football season joined the team late just in time for our first tournament. He obviously would be a force for us in the middle, but he hadn’t had any practice time at all with us. I picked spots where I worked him in, but with the game on the line, I pulled him for the players who had been practicing together for three weeks. That was over 25 years ago, and I can’t remember any more whether we won or lost that game, but I’ll never forget the angry piercing stare of disgust the kid gave me when he got subbed out. He never said a word, but I knew right then that I should have kept him in there with the game on the line. The icy glare said it all for a kid that young. That kid went on to play 8 seasons in the NFL.

The NFL is more than a tough business. Everybody who gets there is talented. Not everybody who gets there has the prettiest game. Few see instant success. And seldom are the most polished and talented ones among those who make it the biggest, especially at the QB position. But what the elite quarterbacks have in common is the Eye of the Tiger.

Consider Aaron Rodgers. I’m going to quote extensively from Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal here, but as a Packer fan I was generally aware of his progression. It wasn't always real pretty.

McGinn: “As a rookie (2005), Rodgers' six substantial outings included a scrimmage against Buffalo, four exhibition games and the fourth quarter of a December night game in Baltimore. He was brutal every time out.

In each of the exhibition games, Brett Favre started before turning it over to Rodgers. Until his 20th and final series, when the Packers scored a touchdown in Tennessee with the aid of a 33-yard penalty for pass interference, Rodgers had not generated a point. Sixteen possessions ended with punts, two on interceptions and one on a fumble.

Against the Ravens, Rodgers threw an interception, fumbled twice and was sacked three times.

A month before the 2006 draft, a panel of 18 personnel men were asked to compare Rodgers against that year's quarterback pool led by Matt Leinart, Vince Young and Jay Cutler. Not only didn't Rodgers draw any first-place votes, he had only one second and three thirds. Eleven scouts put him fourth, and three others even had him behind Brodie Croyle and Charlie Whitehurst.

There was considerable optimism after Rodgers turned in his best performance up to then in the exhibition opener against San Diego. But he was very average in the second game, not very good in the third and awful in the fourth."

One scout said "After his second preseason, if they had released him, I don't know that anybody would have been shocked. I mean, he wasn't a very good player. He couldn't make a play."

McGinn: "In his only meaningful regular-season appearance, Rodgers played the entire second half against New England. Once again, he played poorly, holding the ball for three sacks and missing several open receivers.

According to many personnel people, Rodgers didn't have much feel in the pocket. Either he would bolt prematurely or he would hold the ball too long. His timing was off, his running was rather ineffective and his accuracy was disappointing, too. He also kept fumbling the ball, seven times (four lost) in his first three exhibition seasons.”

But no-one worked harder at his game than Rodgers.

"Today, Rodgers' arm strength is superior to what it was. That didn't just happen. He worked with experts on the biomechanics of throwing while working to strengthen the small muscles of the shoulder.

...he drilled and drilled until his out-of-pocket game became extraordinary and his progressions perhaps beyond compare. Ever mindful of turnovers, he trimmed his interception and fumble totals to the barest of minimums.

One of his few remaining flaws - holding the ball too long - at last went into remission a year ago, disappointing opponents to no end. "That used to be our thing. . . we knew we could sack him," a personnel man for an NFC North team said. "Now he doesn't get sacked much anymore."

I’m using Aaron Rodgers as an example here. But I’m old enough to have seen it with Bart Starr, who was never supposed to be the starting quarterback for the Green Bay Packers. I saw it with Dave Kreig from my hometown, who started as a 7th string QB at tiny Milton College, made the Seattle SeaHawks as an undrafted free agent and still ranks among the top 15 in most all-time passing categories. You could also point to Tom Brady. He didn't have a great arm. He was undersized weak and skinny. But he had " it" and worked on the rest.

The Eye of the Tiger. It doesn't have to be a Michael Jordan, an Aaron Rodgers or a Tom Brady. It could be a handicapped Special Olympics athlete who refuses to give in to his handicap or it could be the 6th grade kid I benched over 25 years ago - a kid who busted his ### to over-achieve.

But it contains the ability to literally succeed through shear willpower until the skills catch up. The ultra competitiveness, the mental and physical toughness to overcome failure and flourish later.

Someone posted on amother board - "Stuck with Tebow another year..."

I say get used to it. I'm betting that Tebow will be around for much longer than that. The Eye of the Tiger? Tim Tebow has it.

 
I truly had planned on writing this article regardless of whether the Broncos won or lost to Pittsburgh in their first play-off game - at least if Tebow did not come out playing not to lose. Please understand that this is from one who was NOT a fan of Tebow coming out of Florida. After reviewing his performance during Senior Bowl week two years ago, I really didn’t thing he would have an NFL future as a quarterback. He simply had too much to overcome: absolutely no idea of what he was doing in the pocket, bad footwork, elongated delivery, locking on to receivers, no reads to the right side of the field….the list went on. Yes, some scouts were impressed by his leadership skills and his work ethic, but he just did not have the skills to be an NFL QB.I know there are many of you who believe he still has too far to go to ever be elite or maybe even adequate, but I believe you are wrong. If you heard or saw anything from that Senior Bowl week, you would appreciate how far he’s already come even considering his regression in the games leading up to the contest with the Steelers.Let me digress. I remember the first time I ever saw the Eye of the Tiger. I was coaching a 6th grade basketball game (my son was one of the guards on that team). A big heavy kid who had taken a few weeks off from the football season joined the team late just in time for our first tournament. He obviously would be a force for us in the middle, but he hadn’t had any practice time at all with us. I picked spots where I worked him in, but with the game on the line, I pulled him for the players who had been practicing together for three weeks. That was over 25 years ago, and I can’t remember any more whether we won or lost that game, but I’ll never forget the angry piercing stare of disgust the kid gave me when he got subbed out. He never said a word, but I knew right then that I should have kept him in there with the game on the line. The icy glare said it all for a kid that young. That kid went on to play 8 seasons in the NFL. The NFL is more than a tough business. Everybody who gets there is talented. Not everybody who gets there has the prettiest game. Few see instant success. And seldom are the most polished and talented ones among those who make it the biggest, especially at the QB position. But what the elite quarterbacks have in common is the Eye of the Tiger. Consider Aaron Rodgers. I’m going to quote extensively from Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal here, but as a Packer fan I was generally aware of his progression. It wasn't always real pretty.McGinn: “As a rookie (2005), Rodgers' six substantial outings included a scrimmage against Buffalo, four exhibition games and the fourth quarter of a December night game in Baltimore. He was brutal every time out.In each of the exhibition games, Brett Favre started before turning it over to Rodgers. Until his 20th and final series, when the Packers scored a touchdown in Tennessee with the aid of a 33-yard penalty for pass interference, Rodgers had not generated a point. Sixteen possessions ended with punts, two on interceptions and one on a fumble.Against the Ravens, Rodgers threw an interception, fumbled twice and was sacked three times.A month before the 2006 draft, a panel of 18 personnel men were asked to compare Rodgers against that year's quarterback pool led by Matt Leinart, Vince Young and Jay Cutler. Not only didn't Rodgers draw any first-place votes, he had only one second and three thirds. Eleven scouts put him fourth, and three others even had him behind Brodie Croyle and Charlie Whitehurst.There was considerable optimism after Rodgers turned in his best performance up to then in the exhibition opener against San Diego. But he was very average in the second game, not very good in the third and awful in the fourth."One scout said "After his second preseason, if they had released him, I don't know that anybody would have been shocked. I mean, he wasn't a very good player. He couldn't make a play."McGinn: "In his only meaningful regular-season appearance, Rodgers played the entire second half against New England. Once again, he played poorly, holding the ball for three sacks and missing several open receivers. According to many personnel people, Rodgers didn't have much feel in the pocket. Either he would bolt prematurely or he would hold the ball too long. His timing was off, his running was rather ineffective and his accuracy was disappointing, too. He also kept fumbling the ball, seven times (four lost) in his first three exhibition seasons.”But no-one worked harder at his game than Rodgers. "Today, Rodgers' arm strength is superior to what it was. That didn't just happen. He worked with experts on the biomechanics of throwing while working to strengthen the small muscles of the shoulder....he drilled and drilled until his out-of-pocket game became extraordinary and his progressions perhaps beyond compare. Ever mindful of turnovers, he trimmed his interception and fumble totals to the barest of minimums.One of his few remaining flaws - holding the ball too long - at last went into remission a year ago, disappointing opponents to no end. "That used to be our thing. . . we knew we could sack him," a personnel man for an NFC North team said. "Now he doesn't get sacked much anymore."I’m using Aaron Rodgers as an example here. But I’m old enough to have seen it with Bart Starr, who was never supposed to be the starting quarterback for the Green Bay Packers. I saw it with Dave Kreig from my hometown, who started as a 7th string QB at tiny Milton College, made the Seattle SeaHawks as an undrafted free agent and still ranks among the top 15 in most all-time passing categories. You could also point to Tom Brady. He didn't have a great arm. He was undersized weak and skinny. But he had " it" and worked on the rest.The Eye of the Tiger. It doesn't have to be a Michael Jordan, an Aaron Rodgers or a Tom Brady. It could be a handicapped Special Olympics athlete who refuses to give in to his handicap or it could be the 6th grade kid I benched over 25 years ago - a kid who busted his ### to over-achieve.But it contains the ability to literally succeed through shear willpower until the skills catch up. The ultra competitiveness, the mental and physical toughness to overcome failure and flourish later.Someone posted on amother board - "Stuck with Tebow another year..."I say get used to it. I'm betting that Tebow will be around for much longer than that. The Eye of the Tiger? Tim Tebow has it.
:goodposting:
 
Defenses will catch on after studying him the whole offseason and he'll have a lot more trouble next year.

 
Defenses will catch on after studying him the whole offseason and he'll have a lot more trouble next year.
catch onto what exactly? -------------

great posting here madd. great read.
In theory, the reason teams don't run this type of offense is that the QB will take an absolute beating when he runs the football. What should happen is he will suffer injuries that will rob him of his effectiveness. It just hasn't happened yet. But you have to figure that hit is coming that takes the RB out of the game for a few series or so.
 
Defenses will catch on after studying him the whole offseason and he'll have a lot more trouble next year.
catch onto what exactly? -------------

great posting here madd. great read.
In theory, the reason teams don't run this type of offense is that the QB will take an absolute beating when he runs the football. What should happen is he will suffer injuries that will rob him of his effectiveness. It just hasn't happened yet. But you have to figure that hit is coming that takes the RB out of the game for a few series or so.
Madd is clearly saying his game will evolve. He will become a real QB when his skills catch up. His assertion had nothing to do with the read option offense.

 
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Defenses will catch on after studying him the whole offseason and he'll have a lot more trouble next year.
catch onto what exactly? -------------

great posting here madd. great read.
In theory, the reason teams don't run this type of offense is that the QB will take an absolute beating when he runs the football. What should happen is he will suffer injuries that will rob him of his effectiveness. It just hasn't happened yet. But you have to figure that hit is coming that takes the RB out of the game for a few series or so.
Madd is clearly saying his game will evolve. He will become a real QB when his skills catch up. His assertion had nothing to do with the read option offense.
:thumbup: :yes:
 
Madd-

Appreciate the effort, and your insight. Not really sure about how you used McGinn though. Its not really clear where McGinn ends/you begin, and I'm pretty sure that article was part of their pay service. I don't mind taking a line or two from that, but using seven paragraphs?

 
Defenses will catch on after studying him the whole offseason and he'll have a lot more trouble next year.
catch onto what exactly? -------------great posting here madd. great read.
Exactly. I don't get the "defenses will figure it out" bit. This isn't some gimmick wildcat with RonnieBrown hucking knuckleballs over busted coverage. Tebow can really pass, so you need to defend that, and really run, so you need to defend that too. There's no trick here, and that was proven against PIT who said "we're gonna make you beat us in the passing game."Ok.
 
Madd-Appreciate the effort, and your insight. Not really sure about how you used McGinn though. Its not really clear where McGinn ends/you begin, and I'm pretty sure that article was part of their pay service. I don't mind taking a line or two from that, but using seven paragraphs?
That same article was posted in its entirety in the SP a couple days ago IIRC.
 
Defenses will catch on after studying him the whole offseason and he'll have a lot more trouble next year.
catch onto what exactly? -------------great posting here madd. great read.
Exactly. I don't get the "defenses will figure it out" bit. This isn't some gimmick wildcat with RonnieBrown hucking knuckleballs over busted coverage. Tebow can really pass, so you need to defend that, and really run, so you need to defend that too. There's no trick here, and that was proven against PIT who said "we're gonna make you beat us in the passing game."Ok.
I don't think it so much a matter of "figuring him out." I think it's more of a situation where NFL defenses start treating him more like other QBs. Right now they simply aren't. You don't see a whole lot of complicated defensive schemes used against him. You see more of teams lining up in single coverage and daring him to beat them. To his credit, he has beat them more times than not. I still can't get over how slow his release is personally. His wind up has got to get shorter or NFL DBs, who aren't lined up in man coverage, are going to be able to start reading his eyes and delivery. I think this began to happen late in the year but then the Steelers completely ignored any such strategies for lord knows what reason. I'm not sure if he can or can not become a legit franchise QB. I'm inclined to say not because I just don't think he is ever going to change that delivery motion enough or become consistently accurate enough. He has great intangibles though and if anyone could make the change it would be him. I just think it's an awful long way to go. I think he can be an effective starter but not franchise material. Franchise material is rare.
 
I can only imagine how badass Vince Young could have been if the Titans coaches had changed the playbook to accommodate his skillset in the way the Broncos have for Tebow.

 
They obviously have different styles (both passing and running), but I decided to compare Tebow's 15 career starts (including the playoff game) to Vick's first 15 starts:

W-L-T COMP ATT COM% YDS TD INT RATE TD% INT% Y/A AY/A RUSH RYDS RY/A RTDVick 8-6-1 206 373 55.2 2535 13 7 80.2 3.5 1.9 6.8 6.6 105 744 7.1 8Tebow 9-6-0 172 362 47.5 2618 17 9 77.1 4.7 2.5 7.2 7.1 156 872 5.6 9While Vick hasn't progressed to one of the top passers in the league, he's made good strides during his Philly years in areas like completion %, yards per attempt, TD %, and passer rating. What kind of strides can Tebow make?One big difference is their age. Tebow entered the NFL two years older than Vick, so, theoretically, Tebow should be a more advanced passer than Vick in the first 15 starts.

 
They obviously have different styles (both passing and running), but I decided to compare Tebow's 15 career starts (including the playoff game) to Vick's first 15 starts:

W-L-T COMP ATT COM% YDS TD INT RATE TD% INT% Y/A AY/A RUSH RYDS RY/A RTDVick 8-6-1 206 373 55.2 2535 13 7 80.2 3.5 1.9 6.8 6.6 105 744 7.1 8Tebow 9-6-0 172 362 47.5 2618 17 9 77.1 4.7 2.5 7.2 7.1 156 872 5.6 9While Vick hasn't progressed to one of the top passers in the league, he's made good strides during his Philly years in areas like completion %, yards per attempt, TD %, and passer rating. What kind of strides can Tebow make?One big difference is their age. Tebow entered the NFL two years older than Vick, so, theoretically, Tebow should be a more advanced passer than Vick in the first 15 starts.
Although Vick's throwing motion was certainly not the picture of success when he came to the league, it was never anywhere close to as unusual as Tebow's is.
 
'azgroover said:
I can only imagine how badass Vince Young could have been if the Titans coaches had changed the playbook to accommodate his skillset in the way the Broncos have for Tebow.
Young sucked. Couldn't read a defense, horrible throwing motion. All around suckage.
 
They obviously have different styles (both passing and running), but I decided to compare Tebow's 15 career starts (including the playoff game) to Vick's first 15 starts:

W-L-T COMP ATT COM% YDS TD INT RATE TD% INT% Y/A AY/A RUSH RYDS RY/A RTDVick 8-6-1 206 373 55.2 2535 13 7 80.2 3.5 1.9 6.8 6.6 105 744 7.1 8Tebow 9-6-0 172 362 47.5 2618 17 9 77.1 4.7 2.5 7.2 7.1 156 872 5.6 9While Vick hasn't progressed to one of the top passers in the league, he's made good strides during his Philly years in areas like completion %, yards per attempt, TD %, and passer rating. What kind of strides can Tebow make?One big difference is their age. Tebow entered the NFL two years older than Vick, so, theoretically, Tebow should be a more advanced passer than Vick in the first 15 starts.
Although Vick's throwing motion was certainly not the picture of success when he came to the league, it was never anywhere close to as unusual as Tebow's is.
Don't get me wrong Tebow has a little bit different delivery than your everyday QB but it is highlighted because he is left handed. Left handers always look a touch off. I think deliveries are a bit exagerrated as well.I mean Rivers actually looks like he is shot putting the ball down the field yet he is one of the better QB's in the league.

 
They obviously have different styles (both passing and running), but I decided to compare Tebow's 15 career starts (including the playoff game) to Vick's first 15 starts:

W-L-T COMP ATT COM% YDS TD INT RATE TD% INT% Y/A AY/A RUSH RYDS RY/A RTDVick 8-6-1 206 373 55.2 2535 13 7 80.2 3.5 1.9 6.8 6.6 105 744 7.1 8Tebow 9-6-0 172 362 47.5 2618 17 9 77.1 4.7 2.5 7.2 7.1 156 872 5.6 9While Vick hasn't progressed to one of the top passers in the league, he's made good strides during his Philly years in areas like completion %, yards per attempt, TD %, and passer rating. What kind of strides can Tebow make?One big difference is their age. Tebow entered the NFL two years older than Vick, so, theoretically, Tebow should be a more advanced passer than Vick in the first 15 starts.
Although Vick's throwing motion was certainly not the picture of success when he came to the league, it was never anywhere close to as unusual as Tebow's is.
Don't get me wrong Tebow has a little bit different delivery than your everyday QB but it is highlighted because he is left handed. Left handers always look a touch off. I think deliveries are a bit exagerrated as well.I mean Rivers actually looks like he is shot putting the ball down the field yet he is one of the better QB's in the league.
Rivers delivery is abnormal as well, no doubt. The difference is his is just low and a bit sideways, not extremely elongated and slow. Rivers height allows for his delivery to not cause as many problems as it should. In the end though, he releases the ball much more quickly than Tebow. Actually, Rivers may have one of the quickest releases in all of football.
 
They obviously have different styles (both passing and running), but I decided to compare Tebow's 15 career starts (including the playoff game) to Vick's first 15 starts:

W-L-T COMP ATT COM% YDS TD INT RATE TD% INT% Y/A AY/A RUSH RYDS RY/A RTDVick 8-6-1 206 373 55.2 2535 13 7 80.2 3.5 1.9 6.8 6.6 105 744 7.1 8Tebow 9-6-0 172 362 47.5 2618 17 9 77.1 4.7 2.5 7.2 7.1 156 872 5.6 9While Vick hasn't progressed to one of the top passers in the league, he's made good strides during his Philly years in areas like completion %, yards per attempt, TD %, and passer rating. What kind of strides can Tebow make?One big difference is their age. Tebow entered the NFL two years older than Vick, so, theoretically, Tebow should be a more advanced passer than Vick in the first 15 starts.
Although Vick's throwing motion was certainly not the picture of success when he came to the league, it was never anywhere close to as unusual as Tebow's is.
Don't get me wrong Tebow has a little bit different delivery than your everyday QB but it is highlighted because he is left handed. Left handers always look a touch off. I think deliveries are a bit exagerrated as well.I mean Rivers actually looks like he is shot putting the ball down the field yet he is one of the better QB's in the league.
Rivers delivery is abnormal as well, no doubt. The difference is his is just low and a bit sideways, not extremely elongated and slow. Rivers height allows for his delivery to not cause as many problems as it should. In the end though, he releases the ball much more quickly than Tebow. Actually, Rivers may have one of the quickest releases in all of football.
Agreed.It is definitely a luxury to have a quick release. Tebow will have to shorten his release some but he will never have that super quick delivery. Although it may be a bit of a hinderance it ultimately won't be what will keep him from failing if he does eventually fall on his face. You can have a slower delivery but you need to then make quicker decisions and become more accurate with your throws. Right now Tebow is slow at making decisions and being accurate, but both are fixable.

 
They obviously have different styles (both passing and running), but I decided to compare Tebow's 15 career starts (including the playoff game) to Vick's first 15 starts:

W-L-T COMP ATT COM% YDS TD INT RATE TD% INT% Y/A AY/A RUSH RYDS RY/A RTDVick 8-6-1 206 373 55.2 2535 13 7 80.2 3.5 1.9 6.8 6.6 105 744 7.1 8Tebow 9-6-0 172 362 47.5 2618 17 9 77.1 4.7 2.5 7.2 7.1 156 872 5.6 9While Vick hasn't progressed to one of the top passers in the league, he's made good strides during his Philly years in areas like completion %, yards per attempt, TD %, and passer rating. What kind of strides can Tebow make?One big difference is their age. Tebow entered the NFL two years older than Vick, so, theoretically, Tebow should be a more advanced passer than Vick in the first 15 starts.
Although Vick's throwing motion was certainly not the picture of success when he came to the league, it was never anywhere close to as unusual as Tebow's is.
Don't get me wrong Tebow has a little bit different delivery than your everyday QB but it is highlighted because he is left handed. Left handers always look a touch off. I think deliveries are a bit exagerrated as well.I mean Rivers actually looks like he is shot putting the ball down the field yet he is one of the better QB's in the league.
Rivers delivery is abnormal as well, no doubt. The difference is his is just low and a bit sideways, not extremely elongated and slow. Rivers height allows for his delivery to not cause as many problems as it should. In the end though, he releases the ball much more quickly than Tebow. Actually, Rivers may have one of the quickest releases in all of football.
Agreed.It is definitely a luxury to have a quick release. Tebow will have to shorten his release some but he will never have that super quick delivery. Although it may be a bit of a hinderance it ultimately won't be what will keep him from failing if he does eventually fall on his face. You can have a slower delivery but you need to then make quicker decisions and become more accurate with your throws. Right now Tebow isslow at making decisions and being accurate, but both are fixable.
Right now that seems to be one of his biggest issues. Before the last game Elway told him, just throw the ball. Seemed like he took that advice and had his best game now just start building on that.

 
In general, I agree with what you're saying but there's degrees of it that run the entire spectrum and I think it's silly to pin Tebow's future success on the fact that he has the Eye of the Tiger. Yes, in hindsight, I think you can look at examples where sheer will is what made a good player great or a guy destined to work the floor at Furniture Mart a ST standout, but I don't think Eye of the Tiger = Success. It's not that simple. Show me the ST gunner on damn near any NFL team and I'll show you the Eye of the Tiger but 95% of the time, NO amount of work or desire will ever turn him into a shutdown CB. The converse is also true. Eli Manning has steadily improved every year he's been in the league and can now be considered a borderline elite QB. And that guy has the Eye of the Lamb Being Led To Slaughter. Soooooo...I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree that determination and heart can't hurt Tebow's long term chances - but I'd bet car dealerships have employed more guys that had the Eye of the Tiger in college than the NFL has.

 
They obviously have different styles (both passing and running), but I decided to compare Tebow's 15 career starts (including the playoff game) to Vick's first 15 starts:

W-L-T COMP ATT COM% YDS TD INT RATE TD% INT% Y/A AY/A RUSH RYDS RY/A RTDVick 8-6-1 206 373 55.2 2535 13 7 80.2 3.5 1.9 6.8 6.6 105 744 7.1 8Tebow 9-6-0 172 362 47.5 2618 17 9 77.1 4.7 2.5 7.2 7.1 156 872 5.6 9While Vick hasn't progressed to one of the top passers in the league, he's made good strides during his Philly years in areas like completion %, yards per attempt, TD %, and passer rating. What kind of strides can Tebow make?One big difference is their age. Tebow entered the NFL two years older than Vick, so, theoretically, Tebow should be a more advanced passer than Vick in the first 15 starts.
Although Vick's throwing motion was certainly not the picture of success when he came to the league, it was never anywhere close to as unusual as Tebow's is.
Don't get me wrong Tebow has a little bit different delivery than your everyday QB but it is highlighted because he is left handed. Left handers always look a touch off. I think deliveries are a bit exagerrated as well.I mean Rivers actually looks like he is shot putting the ball down the field yet he is one of the better QB's in the league.
Rivers has the worst delivery of any starter in the NFL. Boller's was pretty horrible too. Throwing motion is a non-factor. If it mattered, it would have been exploited already. It does not matter.Vick never really improved as a passer until jail. My suspicion is that he came to appreciate what he had lost in jail and came out committed to finally working. He was not a hard worker before. Tebow is. So, I think it is reasonable to expect Tebow to make improvements in his game going forward. He did not have an offseason in his second year and that was a big loss, plus, he didn't get first team snaps until the team finally bailed on Orton.

I don't expect the team to play the option as often next year, although against certain teams and certain situations, I bet they pull it out. I DO expect Tebow, much like Roethlisberger, to use his legs and elusiveness to buy time in the backfield, to roll out, and to continue to hit players on the run, which is his strength. But I do expect them to use a more standard offense more often, and I think he will work hard this offseason at improving his accuracy on outs and crossing patterns as well as his footwork.

 
They obviously have different styles (both passing and running), but I decided to compare Tebow's 15 career starts (including the playoff game) to Vick's first 15 starts:

W-L-T COMP ATT COM% YDS TD INT RATE TD% INT% Y/A AY/A RUSH RYDS RY/A RTDVick 8-6-1 206 373 55.2 2535 13 7 80.2 3.5 1.9 6.8 6.6 105 744 7.1 8Tebow 9-6-0 172 362 47.5 2618 17 9 77.1 4.7 2.5 7.2 7.1 156 872 5.6 9While Vick hasn't progressed to one of the top passers in the league, he's made good strides during his Philly years in areas like completion %, yards per attempt, TD %, and passer rating. What kind of strides can Tebow make?One big difference is their age. Tebow entered the NFL two years older than Vick, so, theoretically, Tebow should be a more advanced passer than Vick in the first 15 starts.
Although Vick's throwing motion was certainly not the picture of success when he came to the league, it was never anywhere close to as unusual as Tebow's is.
Don't get me wrong Tebow has a little bit different delivery than your everyday QB but it is highlighted because he is left handed. Left handers always look a touch off. I think deliveries are a bit exagerrated as well.I mean Rivers actually looks like he is shot putting the ball down the field yet he is one of the better QB's in the league.
Rivers delivery is abnormal as well, no doubt. The difference is his is just low and a bit sideways, not extremely elongated and slow. Rivers height allows for his delivery to not cause as many problems as it should. In the end though, he releases the ball much more quickly than Tebow. Actually, Rivers may have one of the quickest releases in all of football.
Agreed.It is definitely a luxury to have a quick release. Tebow will have to shorten his release some but he will never have that super quick delivery. Although it may be a bit of a hinderance it ultimately won't be what will keep him from failing if he does eventually fall on his face. You can have a slower delivery but you need to then make quicker decisions and become more accurate with your throws. Right now Tebow is slow at making decisions and being accurate, but both are fixable.
Agree that he is slow at delivery and slow at making decisions, but what you are ignoring is his ability to buy time with his legs and agility. I DO think he will improve if he can improve the speed of his decision-making, but really, his legs allow him to compensate to a great degree.
 
I think that you can put Vince Young in the mix as well as a guy like Kordell Stewart.

However the difference is how the team continues to respond beyond the individual's performance.

Vince Young is a flake and certainly did not get the guys to rally behind him.

Kordell Stewart never matured and lost the team and front office confidence.

Michael Vick is not a leader either. Look how the Eagles have fallen apart ... Dream Team. Tee Hee Hee! Look how Vick has regressed since last year and how that coincidentally impacts the Eagles record. In his last 16 starts he is 7-9 ...

Tebow even has the Defense Rallying Behind Him!

 
In general, I agree with what you're saying but there's degrees of it that run the entire spectrum and I think it's silly to pin Tebow's future success on the fact that he has the Eye of the Tiger. Yes, in hindsight, I think you can look at examples where sheer will is what made a good player great or a guy destined to work the floor at Furniture Mart a ST standout, but I don't think Eye of the Tiger = Success. It's not that simple. Show me the ST gunner on damn near any NFL team and I'll show you the Eye of the Tiger but 95% of the time, NO amount of work or desire will ever turn him into a shutdown CB. The converse is also true. Eli Manning has steadily improved every year he's been in the league and can now be considered a borderline elite QB. And that guy has the Eye of the Lamb Being Led To Slaughter. Soooooo...I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree that determination and heart can't hurt Tebow's long term chances - but I'd bet car dealerships have employed more guys that had the Eye of the Tiger in college than the NFL has.
Eli has the Eye of the Tiger. Don't let his actual eyes fool you.
 
Tell you what:

Give the Broncos Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones and Jermichael Finley to throw to and see how Tebow does.

Right now, he had Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Eddie Royal and 2 TEs I've never heard of that couldn't even make the Packers 53 man lineup.

 
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Not looking so good now. NE just provided the blueprint for making Tebow look awful. Teams will study this game all off-season, especially teams in the AFC West. Tebow has to improve a great deal as a passer, reading defenses, releasing the ball and getting more accurate (with his footwork).

 
Not looking so good now. NE just provided the blueprint for making Tebow look awful. Teams will study this game all off-season, especially teams in the AFC West. Tebow has to improve a great deal as a passer, reading defenses, releasing the ball and getting more accurate (with his footwork).
I think they just borrowed the Jets blueprint for stopping the option game. Tebow needs to improve as a passer. If he becomes even close to mediocre that defensive gameplan will never work.
 
Tell you what:Give the Broncos Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones and Jermichael Finley to throw to and see how Tebow does.Right now, he had Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Eddie Royal and 2 TEs I've never heard of that couldn't even make the Packers 53 man lineup.
Yes. It's hard to disagree that his receivers aren't as good as probably the best receiving corps in the NFL but if you watched the game, receivers we're the dominant problem with Denver last night. Also shouldn't you "positively handicap" the Denver receivers in the New England game for going up against the worst pass defense in football?
 
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Tell you what:Give the Broncos Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones and Jermichael Finley to throw to and see how Tebow does.Right now, he had Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Eddie Royal and 2 TEs I've never heard of that couldn't even make the Packers 53 man lineup.
1) He cannot throw accurately in a zone offense. That takes away usefulness of Driver, Jones and Finley right off and limits what Jennings and Nelson could do. Pittsburgh thought that he could not make any passes and Ike Taylor got outplayed by Thomas and Tebow. NE got it right - he can only make one type of throw and NE defense did not need McDaniels to figure that out. Anyone can see that timing based offensive zone passes are not in his repertoire. Going forward, you will see defenses play in a zone and take away shallow crosses and posts. Can he develop the touch and timing to make all the throws? Anything is possible I suppose. He could also work on his route running and challenge Gronkowski as the game's best tight end. Anything is possible. 2) He cannot keep rushing like he does by finishing with his head down. He plays like a fullback/qb but he keeps finishing his rushes with his head in the impact zone. Even fullbacks don't do this as often as he does. He has a big frame to absorb the impact but he cannot keep taking hits to the head like that. Teams would not let a franchise qb do that. For example, Cam Newton started putting his head down on runs the middle part of this season and Carolina put a stop to that.
 
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The Eye of the Tiger. It doesn't have to be a Michael Jordan, an Aaron Rodgers or a Tom Brady. It could be a handicapped Special Olympics athlete who refuses to give in to his handicap or it could be the 6th grade kid I benched over 25 years ago - a kid who busted his ### to over-achieve.
I'll take "Qualifications to be an NFL quarterback according to Tebow fans" for $200, Alex.
 
Tell you what:Give the Broncos Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones and Jermichael Finley to throw to and see how Tebow does.Right now, he had Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Eddie Royal and 2 TEs I've never heard of that couldn't even make the Packers 53 man lineup.
:thumbup:
 
Tell you what:

Give the Broncos Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones and Jermichael Finley to throw to and see how Tebow does.

Right now, he had Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Eddie Royal and 2 TEs I've never heard of that couldn't even make the Packers 53 man lineup.
:no: when you have a career completion percentage of just 47.3% it doesn't matter who you're throwing too, you're simply not a good QB.

 
John Elway's first year stats (started 10 games): 47.5 completion %, 7 TDs, 14 INTs.

Elway's 10th season: 55.1 completion %, 10 TDs, 17 INTs

And the in-between years (his 2nd thru 9th seasons) were mediocre at best. It's likely the only thing that saved him was being a high draft pick.

LOL.

 
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John Elway's first year stats (started 10 games): 47.5 completion %, 7 TDs, 14 INTs.Elway's 10th season: 55.1 completion %, 10 TDs, 17 INTsAnd the in-between years (his 2nd thru 9th seasons) were mediocre at best. It's likely the only thing that saved him was being a high draft pick.LOL.
:goodposting: Elway of all people should have been willing to give the guy a chance based on this alone. I wouldn't even care if they signed manning as a win now, mentor Tebow for future. But to put him on the block before the contract is even signed.
 

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