Why Vereen fits the Pats' offense so well (1 Viewer)

[Lavachebeadsman]

Link

With the loss of Welker, Danny Woodhead, Brandon Lloyd, and Aaron Hernandez, 444 targets from 2012 are unaccounted for. Even giving all of Welker’s targets to Danny Amendola, the Pats have 269 targets to redistribute.

It’s probably irresponsible to assume that just one player out of Zach Sudfeld, Kembrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce encapsulate the rest of those targets. Thompkins seems to have a good connection with Brady, but that far from guarantees him 100 targets. At the bare minimum, Vereen seems to be a lock to fill Danny Woodhead’s old role, with upside to fill in Hernandez’s old ‘joker’ role, and possibly even some of Lloyd’s leftover split-end snaps.

Why exactly is it Vereen that fits better than Thompkins or Sudfeld into the general concepts of the Belichick offense? I think this excerpt from Chris Brown’s 'The essential smart football' shows Vereen’s exact value to the Patriots offense.

"Belichick’s use of Hernandez as a running back is the best example of how the Patriots outflank defenses. With no traditional runner in the game, Belichick can force the defense to substitute to an anti-zero-running-back personnel grouping. Once they’re in this pass-centric setup, Belichick can run the ball with Hernandez anyway. If the defense fails to react, the Patriots can drop back and run a pass play"- Chris Brown, Smart Football

Brown spells out exactly why Hernandez was a valuable asset to the Patriots despite his middling yards per target and weak red zone conversion rate in 2012. His value came from his ability to put defenses in uncomfortable positions. Having players who can play at multiple positions and convert in separate ways all on the same drive without leaving the field presents the Patriots with a massive tactical advantage and given Vereen’s ability as a runner and a receiver, I’m beginning to believe he may be even more valuable to the offense than Hernandez was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ro_7XloBag (Link to Vereen's fade route TD)

Vereen’s touchdown in Week One of the preseason perfectly exemplifies why we’ve all deemed him an excellent fantasy sleeper. Not only do we have legit evidence that Vereen is at the very least a league average runner, but that play shows his talents as a receiver. Right in the middle of the Patriots no huddle offense, Vereen was able to split out wide and run a corner route for the touchdown. Considering that Hernandez had 11 career rushes over 3 seasons, I think it’s clear that Vereen is a more versatile and effective weapon.

Versatility and adjustment is what makes the Patriots offense work. That’s why beat writers have been adamant that Vereen is ‘going to get alot of touches‘. Stevan Ridley has 26 catches in his combined years of college and pro ball, Lagarrette Blount has 25 in 5 years and in fact, out of all the other players on the Patriots roster, only Brandon Bolden rivals Vereen as a player with pass catching and rushing ability (76 catches, 10.6 yards per catch at Mississippi), but he appears to be a long shot to make the roster at this point. (That and his agility score of 11.49 is pretty bad.)

Additionally, what makes Vereen’s value so great and upside so tantalizing is that he won’t just be running standard pass-catching running back routes, but rather be receiving high value down-the-field/endzone targets. Including the post-season, Vereen had the 12th highest aDOT of any running back in the entire league, and the 3rd highest of any back receiving more than 6 targets. That number will probably rise even higher in 2013, even if it means his sterling 79% catch rate dips slightly.

 

[famousb]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

Is it? I thought it was pretty straight forward.

 

[Sir Psycho]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

Is it? I thought it was pretty straight forward.

Yes it was and a pretty good post also.

Nice job.

 

[finito]

Great stuff here, thx.

 

[famousb]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

Is it? I thought it was pretty straight forward.

Yes it was and a pretty good post also.Nice job.

Didn't mean it in a negative way... Just not used to seeing THAT much to read in one post... Buy there is a lot of good thought put into it.

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

No, it really isn't. What a strange comment.

 

[KCitons]

I'm hoping Vereen can be that player, but a couple of things that still bother me.

- With Boyce, Dobson, and Thompkins, do we really know what the Patriots will do? Could BB line up any of these players in the backfield ?

- Vereen and Hernandez are completely different body types. I don't see them as interchangeable when it comes to blocking. AH matches up better against D-linemen, especially if he lines up as a Fullback and then motions out to the slot.

 

[Sir Psycho]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

Is it? I thought it was pretty straight forward.

Yes it was and a pretty good post also.Nice job.

Didn't mean it in a negative way... Just not used to seeing THAT much to read in one post... Buy there is a lot of good thought put into it.

This isn't twitter.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

Yeah, if you have a short attention span.

 

[TheDemon]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

>>Joined Today, 09:02 AM

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

I'm hoping Vereen can be that player, but a couple of things that still bother me.

- With Boyce, Dobson, and Thompkins, do we really know what the Patriots will do? Could BB line up any of these players in the backfield ?

- Vereen and Hernandez are completely different body types. I don't see them as interchangeable when it comes to blocking. AH matches up better against D-linemen, especially if he lines up as a Fullback and then motions out to the slot.

Of course we don't know exactly what the Pats will do, but I feel pretty confident in saying that Boyce, Dobson and Thompkins won't be asked to run the football. They all have awkward body types for pass blocking and running (more long-stride type runners, and none of them excel in lateral agility)

 

[KCitons]

I'm hoping Vereen can be that player, but a couple of things that still bother me.

- With Boyce, Dobson, and Thompkins, do we really know what the Patriots will do? Could BB line up any of these players in the backfield ?

- Vereen and Hernandez are completely different body types. I don't see them as interchangeable when it comes to blocking. AH matches up better against D-linemen, especially if he lines up as a Fullback and then motions out to the slot.

Of course we don't know exactly what the Pats will do, but I feel pretty confident in saying that Boyce, Dobson and Thompkins won't be asked to run the football. They all have awkward body types for pass blocking and running (more long-stride type runners, and none of them excel in lateral agility)

Not trying to argue with you. But AH didn't have a lot of lateral agility either.

Again, I own Vereen and am cautiously optimistic. I get the feeling that people are anointing Vereen based more on lack of another option. If a better option arises (Boyce, Dobson, Amendola, Edelman, even Bolden or Washington ) it could cut into Vereen's production.

After all, Ridley appears to RB1 in that offense. I'm concerned that Vereen may become more of the gimmick player. A jack of all trades, but master of none.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

I'm hoping Vereen can be that player, but a couple of things that still bother me.

- With Boyce, Dobson, and Thompkins, do we really know what the Patriots will do? Could BB line up any of these players in the backfield ?

- Vereen and Hernandez are completely different body types. I don't see them as interchangeable when it comes to blocking. AH matches up better against D-linemen, especially if he lines up as a Fullback and then motions out to the slot.

Of course we don't know exactly what the Pats will do, but I feel pretty confident in saying that Boyce, Dobson and Thompkins won't be asked to run the football. They all have awkward body types for pass blocking and running (more long-stride type runners, and none of them excel in lateral agility)

Not trying to argue with you. But AH didn't have a lot of lateral agility either.

Again, I own Vereen and am cautiously optimistic. I get the feeling that people are anointing Vereen based more on lack of another option. If a better option arises (Boyce, Dobson, Amendola, Edelman, even Bolden or Washington ) it could cut into Vereen's production.

After all, Ridley appears to RB1 in that offense. I'm concerned that Vereen may become more of the gimmick player. A jack of all trades, but master of none.

I think gimmick player is probably the most appropriate term for Vereen, but adjusting for the Pats offensive pace and how prolific they are at scoring, a gadget player in their offense is probably no worse than a flex play

 

[humpback]

I'm hoping Vereen can be that player, but a couple of things that still bother me.

- With Boyce, Dobson, and Thompkins, do we really know what the Patriots will do? Could BB line up any of these players in the backfield ?

- Vereen and Hernandez are completely different body types. I don't see them as interchangeable when it comes to blocking. AH matches up better against D-linemen, especially if he lines up as a Fullback and then motions out to the slot.

Of course we don't know exactly what the Pats will do, but I feel pretty confident in saying that Boyce, Dobson and Thompkins won't be asked to run the football. They all have awkward body types for pass blocking and running (more long-stride type runners, and none of them excel in lateral agility)

Not trying to argue with you. But AH didn't have a lot of lateral agility either.

Again, I own Vereen and am cautiously optimistic. I get the feeling that people are anointing Vereen based more on lack of another option. If a better option arises (Boyce, Dobson, Amendola, Edelman, even Bolden or Washington ) it could cut into Vereen's production.

After all, Ridley appears to RB1 in that offense. I'm concerned that Vereen may become more of the gimmick player. A jack of all trades, but master of none.

I pretty much agree with this. I also own Vereen, but he seems fairly replaceable. Even if they don't find that guy this season, I'm not sure if he's talented enough to be a long term fantasy option.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

I'm hoping Vereen can be that player, but a couple of things that still bother me.

- With Boyce, Dobson, and Thompkins, do we really know what the Patriots will do? Could BB line up any of these players in the backfield ?

- Vereen and Hernandez are completely different body types. I don't see them as interchangeable when it comes to blocking. AH matches up better against D-linemen, especially if he lines up as a Fullback and then motions out to the slot.

Of course we don't know exactly what the Pats will do, but I feel pretty confident in saying that Boyce, Dobson and Thompkins won't be asked to run the football. They all have awkward body types for pass blocking and running (more long-stride type runners, and none of them excel in lateral agility)

Not trying to argue with you. But AH didn't have a lot of lateral agility either.

Again, I own Vereen and am cautiously optimistic. I get the feeling that people are anointing Vereen based more on lack of another option. If a better option arises (Boyce, Dobson, Amendola, Edelman, even Bolden or Washington ) it could cut into Vereen's production.

After all, Ridley appears to RB1 in that offense. I'm concerned that Vereen may become more of the gimmick player. A jack of all trades, but master of none.

I pretty much agree with this. I also own Vereen, but he seems fairly replaceable. Even if they don't find that guy this season, I'm not sure if he's talented enough to be a long term fantasy option.

I suppose that I'm not 100% certain he maintains the role longer than this year, but I am fairly certain he is the only player on their roster capable of playing the joker role. All of the current rostered tight ends can't play in the backfield and I'm not sure any of the rookie WR's would be able to handle the pass blocking duties.

 

[johnadams]

I'm hoping Vereen can be that player, but a couple of things that still bother me.

- With Boyce, Dobson, and Thompkins, do we really know what the Patriots will do? Could BB line up any of these players in the backfield ?

- Vereen and Hernandez are completely different body types. I don't see them as interchangeable when it comes to blocking. AH matches up better against D-linemen, especially if he lines up as a Fullback and then motions out to the slot.

Of course we don't know exactly what the Pats will do, but I feel pretty confident in saying that Boyce, Dobson and Thompkins won't be asked to run the football. They all have awkward body types for pass blocking and running (more long-stride type runners, and none of them excel in lateral agility)

Not trying to argue with you. But AH didn't have a lot of lateral agility either.

Again, I own Vereen and am cautiously optimistic. I get the feeling that people are anointing Vereen based more on lack of another option. If a better option arises (Boyce, Dobson, Amendola, Edelman, even Bolden or Washington ) it could cut into Vereen's production.

After all, Ridley appears to RB1 in that offense. I'm concerned that Vereen may become more of the gimmick player. A jack of all trades, but master of none.

I pretty much agree with this. I also own Vereen, but he seems fairly replaceable. Even if they don't find that guy this season, I'm not sure if he's talented enough to be a long term fantasy option.

There's a lot in this discussion that I don't agree with.

Vereen as gimmick player. A jack of all trades doesn't say gimmick to me. It says versatility, which all NFL teams covet. Is he great at anything? Not really. But being good at several things is quite valuable as it allows continuity on offense in general and specific to NE, it allows the up tempo pace that they have adopted.

As far as being replaceable, if his grasp on the offense and the expectations on him are at a high level, then he's not very replaceable. In our eyes, he may be because we're not seeing the things he does from a coaches perspective, but see above on the offense NE runs. A versatile player without a grasp on the offense is not an asset on NE's offense.

I'm still a bit skeptical myself of what Vereen will add from a FF perspective but I'm not going to dismiss him. His role is going to be a new role to the NE team. He's not Faulk/Woodhead redux, and he's not going to be a pure back-up RB.

 

[Scooby1974]

It seems clear to me that Ridley and Vereen are above average talents that are realizing a whole lot of opportunity in the NE attack. I'm not sure there is a better offense to be in that kind of position with.

 

[KCitons]

Link

It’s probably irresponsible to assume that just one player out of Zach Sudfeld, Kembrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce encapsulate the rest of those targets. Thompkins seems to have a good connection with Brady, but that far from guarantees him 100 targets. At the bare minimum, Vereen seems to be a lock to fill Danny Woodhead’s old role, with upside to fill in Hernandez’s old ‘joker’ role, and possibly even some of Lloyd’s leftover split-end snaps.

Both Vereen and Bolden could assume the roll left by Woodhead. (even Leon Washington and Edelman could steal some of those touches) That leaves Lloyd's touches that would be better suited for a player like Thompkins, Dobson, or Boyce. That leaves us with the joker role, which involves a percentage of blocking that doesn't really play to Vereens strength.

If Vereen was to go down with an ACL tomorrow, who would the Shark Pool jump on as the new joker? Would it be because of talent or opportunity?

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Link

It’s probably irresponsible to assume that just one player out of Zach Sudfeld, Kembrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce encapsulate the rest of those targets. Thompkins seems to have a good connection with Brady, but that far from guarantees him 100 targets. At the bare minimum, Vereen seems to be a lock to fill Danny Woodhead’s old role, with upside to fill in Hernandez’s old ‘joker’ role, and possibly even some of Lloyd’s leftover split-end snaps.

Both Vereen and Bolden could assume the roll left by Woodhead. (even Leon Washington and Edelman could steal some of those touches) That leaves Lloyd's touches that would be better suited for a player like Thompkins, Dobson, or Boyce. That leaves us with the joker role, which involves a percentage of blocking that doesn't really play to Vereens strength.

If Vereen was to go down with an ACL tomorrow, who would the Shark Pool jump on as the new joker? Would it be because of talent or opportunity?

I don't think Bolden can fill the role as well as Vereen. His agility score (3 cone plus Short Shuttle time) is a full half second slower than Vereen, and as I mentioned later in the piece, Bolden is on the roster bubble. If Vereen ripped an ACL, I would jump on Leon Washington, but I don't think he would have the upside of Vereen because I'm not sure he can play as a split end

 

[famousb]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

Yeah, if you have a short attention span.

I do... I need bullet points!

 

[KCitons]

Link

It’s probably irresponsible to assume that just one player out of Zach Sudfeld, Kembrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce encapsulate the rest of those targets. Thompkins seems to have a good connection with Brady, but that far from guarantees him 100 targets. At the bare minimum, Vereen seems to be a lock to fill Danny Woodhead’s old role, with upside to fill in Hernandez’s old ‘joker’ role, and possibly even some of Lloyd’s leftover split-end snaps.

Both Vereen and Bolden could assume the roll left by Woodhead. (even Leon Washington and Edelman could steal some of those touches) That leaves Lloyd's touches that would be better suited for a player like Thompkins, Dobson, or Boyce. That leaves us with the joker role, which involves a percentage of blocking that doesn't really play to Vereens strength.

If Vereen was to go down with an ACL tomorrow, who would the Shark Pool jump on as the new joker? Would it be because of talent or opportunity?

I don't think Bolden can fill the role as well as Vereen. His agility score (3 cone plus Short Shuttle time) is a full half second slower than Vereen, and as I mentioned later in the piece, Bolden is on the roster bubble. If Vereen ripped an ACL, I would jump on Leon Washington, but I don't think he would have the upside of Vereen because I'm not sure he can play as a split end

Understood. Then what would Vereen's roll have been if AH was still on the roster? Point is, I don't know if it's talent or opportunity that is giving Vereen his upside. If it's just opportunity, then Vereen may not produce up to his rising ADP.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Link

It’s probably irresponsible to assume that just one player out of Zach Sudfeld, Kembrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce encapsulate the rest of those targets. Thompkins seems to have a good connection with Brady, but that far from guarantees him 100 targets. At the bare minimum, Vereen seems to be a lock to fill Danny Woodhead’s old role, with upside to fill in Hernandez’s old ‘joker’ role, and possibly even some of Lloyd’s leftover split-end snaps.

Both Vereen and Bolden could assume the roll left by Woodhead. (even Leon Washington and Edelman could steal some of those touches) That leaves Lloyd's touches that would be better suited for a player like Thompkins, Dobson, or Boyce. That leaves us with the joker role, which involves a percentage of blocking that doesn't really play to Vereens strength.

If Vereen was to go down with an ACL tomorrow, who would the Shark Pool jump on as the new joker? Would it be because of talent or opportunity?

I don't think Bolden can fill the role as well as Vereen. His agility score (3 cone plus Short Shuttle time) is a full half second slower than Vereen, and as I mentioned later in the piece, Bolden is on the roster bubble. If Vereen ripped an ACL, I would jump on Leon Washington, but I don't think he would have the upside of Vereen because I'm not sure he can play as a split end

Understood. Then what would Vereen's roll have been if AH was still on the roster? Point is, I don't know if it's talent or opportunity that is giving Vereen his upside. If it's just opportunity, then Vereen may not produce up to his rising ADP.

I think Vereen is pretty good. When AH was still on the roster, he scored 3 touchdowns on 12 touches in a playoff game and was running split end WR routes and getting throw to down the field. The Pats knew what they had and seemed to like him.

 

[KCitons]

Link

It’s probably irresponsible to assume that just one player out of Zach Sudfeld, Kembrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce encapsulate the rest of those targets. Thompkins seems to have a good connection with Brady, but that far from guarantees him 100 targets. At the bare minimum, Vereen seems to be a lock to fill Danny Woodhead’s old role, with upside to fill in Hernandez’s old ‘joker’ role, and possibly even some of Lloyd’s leftover split-end snaps.

Both Vereen and Bolden could assume the roll left by Woodhead. (even Leon Washington and Edelman could steal some of those touches) That leaves Lloyd's touches that would be better suited for a player like Thompkins, Dobson, or Boyce. That leaves us with the joker role, which involves a percentage of blocking that doesn't really play to Vereens strength.

If Vereen was to go down with an ACL tomorrow, who would the Shark Pool jump on as the new joker? Would it be because of talent or opportunity?

I don't think Bolden can fill the role as well as Vereen. His agility score (3 cone plus Short Shuttle time) is a full half second slower than Vereen, and as I mentioned later in the piece, Bolden is on the roster bubble. If Vereen ripped an ACL, I would jump on Leon Washington, but I don't think he would have the upside of Vereen because I'm not sure he can play as a split end

Understood. Then what would Vereen's roll have been if AH was still on the roster? Point is, I don't know if it's talent or opportunity that is giving Vereen his upside. If it's just opportunity, then Vereen may not produce up to his rising ADP.

I think Vereen is pretty good. When AH was still on the roster, he scored 3 touchdowns on 12 touches in a playoff game and was running split end WR routes and getting throw to down the field. The Pats knew what they had and seemed to like him.

I'd have to go back and look, but wasn't there a couple of injuries in that game that gave Vereen more time? I know, he will get the same opportunity, but last year the Pats didn't have a lot of other options. Given the same scenario this season, those snaps could easily go to Boyce, Dobson or Thompkins.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Link

It’s probably irresponsible to assume that just one player out of Zach Sudfeld, Kembrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce encapsulate the rest of those targets. Thompkins seems to have a good connection with Brady, but that far from guarantees him 100 targets. At the bare minimum, Vereen seems to be a lock to fill Danny Woodhead’s old role, with upside to fill in Hernandez’s old ‘joker’ role, and possibly even some of Lloyd’s leftover split-end snaps.

Both Vereen and Bolden could assume the roll left by Woodhead. (even Leon Washington and Edelman could steal some of those touches) That leaves Lloyd's touches that would be better suited for a player like Thompkins, Dobson, or Boyce. That leaves us with the joker role, which involves a percentage of blocking that doesn't really play to Vereens strength.

If Vereen was to go down with an ACL tomorrow, who would the Shark Pool jump on as the new joker? Would it be because of talent or opportunity?

I don't think Bolden can fill the role as well as Vereen. His agility score (3 cone plus Short Shuttle time) is a full half second slower than Vereen, and as I mentioned later in the piece, Bolden is on the roster bubble. If Vereen ripped an ACL, I would jump on Leon Washington, but I don't think he would have the upside of Vereen because I'm not sure he can play as a split end

Understood. Then what would Vereen's roll have been if AH was still on the roster? Point is, I don't know if it's talent or opportunity that is giving Vereen his upside. If it's just opportunity, then Vereen may not produce up to his rising ADP.

I think Vereen is pretty good. When AH was still on the roster, he scored 3 touchdowns on 12 touches in a playoff game and was running split end WR routes and getting throw to down the field. The Pats knew what they had and seemed to like him.

I'd have to go back and look, but wasn't there a couple of injuries in that game that gave Vereen more time? I know, he will get the same opportunity, but last year the Pats didn't have a lot of other options. Given the same scenario this season, those snaps could easily go to Boyce, Dobson or Thompkins.

The whole purpose of what I posted is that no, those snaps won't go to those players. My whole argument is that Vereen's ability to line up at basically every position other than tight end. Those 3 rookies can't play running back. Vereen allows Belichick to be more inventive and put his team in a better chance to confuse defenses.

 

[TALL hobbit]

Link

It’s probably irresponsible to assume that just one player out of Zach Sudfeld, Kembrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce encapsulate the rest of those targets. Thompkins seems to have a good connection with Brady, but that far from guarantees him 100 targets. At the bare minimum, Vereen seems to be a lock to fill Danny Woodhead’s old role, with upside to fill in Hernandez’s old ‘joker’ role, and possibly even some of Lloyd’s leftover split-end snaps.

Both Vereen and Bolden could assume the roll left by Woodhead. (even Leon Washington and Edelman could steal some of those touches) That leaves Lloyd's touches that would be better suited for a player like Thompkins, Dobson, or Boyce. That leaves us with the joker role, which involves a percentage of blocking that doesn't really play to Vereens strength.

If Vereen was to go down with an ACL tomorrow, who would the Shark Pool jump on as the new joker? Would it be because of talent or opportunity?

I don't think Bolden can fill the role as well as Vereen. His agility score (3 cone plus Short Shuttle time) is a full half second slower than Vereen, and as I mentioned later in the piece, Bolden is on the roster bubble. If Vereen ripped an ACL, I would jump on Leon Washington, but I don't think he would have the upside of Vereen because I'm not sure he can play as a split end

I thought Bolden and Washington were both considered safe because they play special teams and that the Pats were most likely going to carry 5 RBs. With the rest of the team falling apart, they need depth somewhere...

Even if Bolden stays, I still think Vereen is better suited to take over the Woodhead role. Based on where he was drafted and the fact that the Pat's let Woodhead go I like his upside (assuming his ADP stays reasonable).

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Link

It’s probably irresponsible to assume that just one player out of Zach Sudfeld, Kembrell Thompkins, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce encapsulate the rest of those targets. Thompkins seems to have a good connection with Brady, but that far from guarantees him 100 targets. At the bare minimum, Vereen seems to be a lock to fill Danny Woodhead’s old role, with upside to fill in Hernandez’s old ‘joker’ role, and possibly even some of Lloyd’s leftover split-end snaps.

Both Vereen and Bolden could assume the roll left by Woodhead. (even Leon Washington and Edelman could steal some of those touches) That leaves Lloyd's touches that would be better suited for a player like Thompkins, Dobson, or Boyce. That leaves us with the joker role, which involves a percentage of blocking that doesn't really play to Vereens strength.

If Vereen was to go down with an ACL tomorrow, who would the Shark Pool jump on as the new joker? Would it be because of talent or opportunity?

I don't think Bolden can fill the role as well as Vereen. His agility score (3 cone plus Short Shuttle time) is a full half second slower than Vereen, and as I mentioned later in the piece, Bolden is on the roster bubble. If Vereen ripped an ACL, I would jump on Leon Washington, but I don't think he would have the upside of Vereen because I'm not sure he can play as a split end

I thought Bolden and Washington were both considered safe because they play special teams and that the Pats were most likely going to carry 5 RBs. With the rest of the team falling apart, they need depth somewhere...

Even if Bolden stays, I still think Vereen is better suited to take over the Woodhead role. Based on where he was drafted and the fact that the Pat's let Woodhead go I like his upside (assuming his ADP stays reasonable).

Well my whole thing is that Vereen is probably going to play a combination of the Woodhead/Hernandez role because of what it forces the opposing defense to do.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

That was a quick read compared to the average EBF post.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Bolden is practicing on the first team punt return and punt coverage teams, as well as the first team kick return and kick coverage teams. He's probably on the squad as a special teamer, but seems to have lost ground to Blount as a RB.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Bolden is practicing on the first team punt return and punt coverage teams, as well as the first team kick return and kick coverage teams. He's probably on the squad as a special teamer, but seems to have lost ground to Blount as a RB.

Which would again indicate that he isn't the solution to the matchup/hernandez problem. Right?

 

[LBH]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

Welcome to the shark pool famous

 

[longjfg4]

I think Vereen's ceiling is 2012 Sproles in New Orleans and his floor would be 2008 Sproles in Diego. I would like it to be closer to the 2012 mark.

 

[famousb]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

Welcome to the shark pool famous

do they offer cliff notes versions over here??

 

[ldizzle]

He will be valuable but not as valuable as hernandez. Hernandez gave you those pts at the te position. Vereen to me is a good flex.

 

[habsfan]

Wow... That's a LOT to read...

That was a quick read compared to the average EBF post.

Or Kafka novel...

 

[Dez]

Vereen went at 3.12 in the "expert" mock draft I am in right now.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Vereen went at 3.12 in the "expert" mock draft I am in right now.

Who took him there?

 

[therokie0070]

I will just say this Vereen has all the tangibles to be a 3 down RB and if Ridley were to struggle don't think for a second he won't get a chance!! Vereen is faster and stronger than Ridley and its not even close, Vereen runs a 4.5 Ridley 4.7 and at the combine Vereen put up 31 reps on the bench press vs Ridley's 18. Some people say Vereen is to small to be a every down player but at 5'10 215 I disagree and to top it off the guy is smart graduating with a 4.0 in 3 years and some change.

Call me crazy but he will get his chance and if he excels the pats will use him and will not look back, if you think there is no way he can over take Ridley your crazy and clearly the pats drafted Vereen in the second because they felt he has all the pieces to be there guy.

 

[ChainsawU]

Vereen is faster and stronger than Ridley and its not even close, Vereen runs a 4.5 Ridley 4.7 and at the combine Vereen put up 31 reps on the bench press vs Ridley's 18. Some people say Vereen is to small to be a every down player but at 5'10 215 I disagree and to top it off the guy is smart graduating with a 4.0 in 3 years and some change.

He weighed 203 lbs at the combine and put up 31 bench press reps. The only RB to bench press more that year was Connecticut fullback Anthony Sherman.

 

[Sabertooth]

 

[Boston]

I really like Vereen this year but there is one thing that has not been mentioned...the kid needs to prove he can consistently stay on the field...so far he has had issues in that department which is one of the reasons he's still somewhat of an unknown quantity entering his third season...

 

[ODannyBoy]

Bolden is practicing on the first team punt return and punt coverage teams, as well as the first team kick return and kick coverage teams. He's probably on the squad as a special teamer, but seems to have lost ground to Blount as a RB.

Which would again indicate that he isn't the solution to the matchup/hernandez problem. Right?

I'm not disputing your original point in terms of it being a possibility, but isn't it also a possibility that the Pats braintrust simply morph the offense into a form that suits the talents of who they have?

The use of Gronk and Hernandez was innovative. Why assume the innovators are now going to stick with a static form and try and make pieces fit into it?

 

[humpback]

I will just say this Vereen has all the tangibles to be a 3 down RB and if Ridley were to struggle don't think for a second he won't get a chance!! Vereen is faster and stronger than Ridley and its not even close, Vereen runs a 4.5 Ridley 4.7 and at the combine Vereen put up 31 reps on the bench press vs Ridley's 18. Some people say Vereen is to small to be a every down player but at 5'10 215 I disagree and to top it off the guy is smart graduating with a 4.0 in 3 years and some change.

Call me crazy but he will get his chance and if he excels the pats will use him and will not look back, if you think there is no way he can over take Ridley your crazy and clearly the pats drafted Vereen in the second because they felt he has all the pieces to be there guy.

You forgot to mention that Ridley had better vert, broad jump, 3 cone drill, and 20 yd. shuttle numbers than Vereen.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Bolden is practicing on the first team punt return and punt coverage teams, as well as the first team kick return and kick coverage teams. He's probably on the squad as a special teamer, but seems to have lost ground to Blount as a RB.

Which would again indicate that he isn't the solution to the matchup/hernandez problem. Right?

I'm not disputing your original point in terms of it being a possibility, but isn't it also a possibility that the Pats braintrust simply morph the offense into a form that suits the talents of who they have?

The use of Gronk and Hernandez was innovative. Why assume the innovators are now going to stick with a static form and try and make pieces fit into it?

Right. A lot of this argument is based on terrible assumptions.

First of all, Hernandez's role as a ball carrier is being grossly over-stated in this thread. I don't even think he had 20 carries in three years in the NFL. Yes, he lined up in the backfield occasionally, but most of the time it was in the "wing" position, which is not typically a ball-carrier spot in the NFL. Hernandez's value as a match-up asset was that he was bigger than a WR, but more nimble than a TE. Having him on the field didn't show the offense's hand with respect to running vs. passing as much as many TE's would because he could participate in both types of plays as a blocker or a receiver.

Secondly, it's not necessarily always better to put "hybrid" players on the field. It only makes sense if that player is a better offensive asset than another WR or RB. The Patriots had pretty terrible WR depth last year, and Hernandez was a very good player, so it made sense do have him on the field and do as much with him as you can. This year, the team make-up is very different. It makes no sense to talk about this offense as if there's X number of "versatile guy" snaps that Belichick needs to give to someone. Hernandez vs. Edelman is an easy call. Vereen vs. Dobson vs. Thompkins vs. Sudfield vs. Boyce is totally different.

Next, early indications are Sudfield is viewed as a versatile player, much like Hernandez was. He lined up in the wing spot on the vast majority of his snaps in the first pre-season game, and also lined up as a split out wide receiver on a few plays.

Vereen is a good players, and is versatile, but that doesn't guarantee him a huge role in this offense this year. He's a RB who can catch really well, let's not get carried away.

And people continue to underestimate Ridley. Ridley is a very good RB.

 

[BC3]

I'm not disputing your original point in terms of it being a possibility, but isn't it also a possibility that the Pats braintrust simply morph the offense into a form that suits the talents of who they have?

The use of Gronk and Hernandez was innovative. Why assume the innovators are now going to stick with a static form and try and make pieces fit into it?

If I was BB I would go 4WR and Vereen would be my starter until Gronk gets back.

The opposing defense has to make a decision on personnel. If the bring in Dime personnel they should be able to run unless thy bring 6 in box then Brady will pick on the weak link in Man coverage (assuming their current receivers can beat the weak link). If they try to stay nickel move Vereen around in and empty set where he can torch LB's

 

[PatsWillWin]

I'm not disputing your original point in terms of it being a possibility, but isn't it also a possibility that the Pats braintrust simply morph the offense into a form that suits the talents of who they have?

The use of Gronk and Hernandez was innovative. Why assume the innovators are now going to stick with a static form and try and make pieces fit into it?
If I was BB playing Madden I would go 4WR and Vereen would be my starter until Gronk gets back.

The opposing defense has to make a decision on personnel. If the bring in Dime personnel they should be able to run unless thy bring 6 in box then Brady will pick on the weak link in Man coverage (assuming their current receivers can beat the weak link). If they try to stay nickel move Vereen around in and empty set where he can torch LB's

 

[VA703]

if you have amendola as a late keeper.. would you bother getting vereen as say a flex? ppr

 

[steveski]

I think people are trying to figure out how to put together the puzzle again now that it's almost an entirely new team than it was last year. This puzzle is missing half it's pieces and it's not possible to put it back together again. I think it's time to go to Toys R Us and pick up a new puzzle and figure out how to put that one together instead of trying to fix the old one.

There are a lot of cheap (fantasy wise) valuable players on this roster that will be winning people their leagues. Who is it? Not a damn clue. As much as it hurts to say it, BB is too smart to not figure this out.

I think Vereen has a very good shot as being that new valuable piece.

 

[BC3]

Nice edit PatsWillWin. I guess they can try to plug sudfeld and fells (or any of there other JV TE's) in for Gronk and hern and have more talented players on sideline. When Gronk gets back they will have more versatility. Basically the only guy they have now that is versatile enough to create mismatches is Vereen and maybe Leon.

 

[KCitons]

Nice edit PatsWillWin. I guess they can try to plug sudfeld and fells (or any of there other JV TE's) in for Gronk and hern and have more talented players on sideline. When Gronk gets back they will have more versatility. Basically the only guy they have now that is versatile enough to create mismatches is Vereen and maybe Leon.

This is one area that I think fantasy football people tend to miss. With all the new players, you can't say for certain who has the versatility. Especially when looking at rookies, we only have their college resume to determine a players ability. Look at Marquise Goodwin in Buffalo. Many are saying that Texas didn't utilize him properly. Could there be other people on the Pats roster that could be used differently?