Sabertooth
Footballguy
Discuss. With all the varied opinions, I'd like to have a thread just discussing this one point. Why was Ronnie taken ahead of Cadillac in the NFL draft when he couldn't beat him out for the starter's job at Auburn?
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Why was Ronnie Brown selected ahead of Cadillac? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
pricklypete
Footballguy
Workout warrior.
But, he does have a lot of talent and low mileage.
Showed great ability to catch the ball out of the backfield.
But, he does have a lot of talent and low mileage.
Showed great ability to catch the ball out of the backfield.
Defending Champs
Footballguy
In short...surrounding cast.
Miami has Culpepper, Chambers, and McMichael.
TB has more ?'s than answers.
Joey Galloway, Michael Clayton, Becht, and Simms.
I'd take Ronnie Brown in a heart beat over Williams.
Miami has Culpepper, Chambers, and McMichael.
TB has more ?'s than answers.
Joey Galloway, Michael Clayton, Becht, and Simms.
I'd take Ronnie Brown in a heart beat over Williams.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
This is an NFL draft question, not a FF question.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Perhaps, but I doubt it. I think they both will have good careers, but Browns hands and speed are what will set him apart (if he stays healthy)
gump
Footballguy
I don't think it matters.
It came down to who was drafting. Saban liked Ronnie. Gruden liked Carnell. I honestly believe Gruden would have taken Carnell at #2.
Saban saw a prototype workhorse with good hands in Ronnie.
Gruden saw a RB with the "gift".
Just like our fantasy rankings, everyone likes different things in different players.
Tuberville, on the other hand, had both at his disposal.
It came down to who was drafting. Saban liked Ronnie. Gruden liked Carnell. I honestly believe Gruden would have taken Carnell at #2.
Saban saw a prototype workhorse with good hands in Ronnie.
Gruden saw a RB with the "gift".
Just like our fantasy rankings, everyone likes different things in different players.
Tuberville, on the other hand, had both at his disposal.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
He's bigger, faster, a better route runner and has better hands
But the more important observation is that Nick Saban knew these guys very well, having coached against them at LSU; and he was willing to take Ronnie first.
Could he have made a mistake? Of course, but Ronnie shouldn't be discounted from being a monster back in this league until he gets a chance to prove otherwise this season.
But the more important observation is that Nick Saban knew these guys very well, having coached against them at LSU; and he was willing to take Ronnie first.
Could he have made a mistake? Of course, but Ronnie shouldn't be discounted from being a monster back in this league until he gets a chance to prove otherwise this season.
Defending Champs
Footballguy
Yep, I read it wrong.In both scenarios, I think Brown is a better RB.I think he will prove this over the length of their respectice careers.Cadillac started stronger at Auburn and while most though Brown was better, they as a team thought it was better to keep them both fresh over the season as opposed to working one into the ground.Most will tell you, given the choice of one over the other at Auburn that final season, Brown would have gotten the carries.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Nobody is saying he wont be a good back, we're just saying he shouldn't have been drafted ahead of Caddy.In six months this comparison will be a lot more clear after Caddy outperforms Brown again.
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Warpig
Footballguy
For the same reason Chad Jackson was selected over Santonio Holmes...SPEED. You can't coach speed.Not to mention the fact that he's more solid than Caddy. Time will tell if they made a mistake. I think they will both be good RB's.
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duaneok66
Footballguy
Ageed . . . Caddy has superior vision, acceleration, and elusiveness . . .and much was made about the goal line; Caddy usually got those opportunites AHEAD of the bigger Brown . . .
doughboydeluxe
Footballguy
Ummmm... I think you mean Santonio Holmes... and Holmes was chosen before Chad Jackson.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Unfortunately for Michael Bennett, Speed didn't get him too far.I'll take the instinctive runner(Emmit Smith, Barry Sanders, Thurman Thomas) over the "SPEED" runner any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Warpig
Footballguy
Yeah...you're right. I meant that speed is the reason that Jackson shot up the draft boards. I don't even think Jackson was the best receiver on the Florida squad but he was a first round pick because of his speed. Man...I need some coffee.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
NFL teams don't spend first round picks on production, they spent them on potential. Ronnie Brown was viewed to have more potential.definition for others...Potential = Unrealized production
Getinthemix
Footballguy
Chad Jackson was a second round pick. The Steelers traded up in the first to pick Holmes.
Getinthemix
Footballguy
Jackson was a 2nd round pick.Yeah...you're right. I meant that speed is the reason that Jackson shot up the draft boards. I don't even think Jackson was the best receiver on the Florida squad but he was a first round pick because of his speed. Man...I need some coffee.
Warpig
Footballguy
Damn! That's twice in one thread...and I haven't even been drinking! I'm going to bed.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
This is a great point and one that we should even take a little further. My priority would be:1) Draft the guy who will never get hurt
2) Draft the guy who will have better instincts3) Draft the guy who will have more speedFaster-Funny because Williams had 7 rushes of 20 or more yards while Brown had 5. (Yes, Williams had more carries)FasterFunny because Williams had a long run of 71 yards, while Brown's longest was 65. (Yes, Williams had more carries)Stronger-Funny because Williams rushed for 54 first downs and Brown only 41. (Yes, Williams had more carries)Stronger-Funny because Brown had 4 fumbles in 207 carries to Williams' 3 in 290. Bigger, faster, a better route runner and has better hands-Funny because Brown played the backup role to Williams all through college, didn't put Ricky on the bench last year, and managed fewer TD's in more games than William's as a rookie. (Yes, Williams had more carries)
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doughboydeluxe
Footballguy
So are you saying that Williams had more carries?
Miscellaneous
Footballguy
Because Nick Saban thought Ronnie was the better pick. I happen to think he was, too.
Bigger, stronger, faster, and a better receiver.
...and I don't think Cadillac's 'instincts' are noticeably better than Brown's are.
Bigger, stronger, faster, and a better receiver.
...and I don't think Cadillac's 'instincts' are noticeably better than Brown's are.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
I laughed...
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Brown 4.4 ypc vs 4.1 for WilliamsBrown 7.2 ypr vs. 4.0 for WilliamsBrown 2.1 receptions per game vs 1.4 for WilliamsBrown 47.8 touches per TD vs 51.7 for Williams
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Cadillac = Rookie of the Year
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Brown is also a much better blocker and in the NFL many coaches won't even let their rookies or vets play because they can't block. Ronnie did a great job in pass protection last year. I think he has a higher ceiling, but I have to admit that Caddy looked like a better runner, except for that sick run against KC. RB is faster, stronger, better blocker and better hands than Caddy. Caddy is quicker and cuts without losing speed better. Bottom line is that Ronnie Brown is more well rounded and isn't weak anywhere.
Jack Burton
Footballguy
from what I've seen Brown looks to be the better of the two. I know caddy had more yds but he also had more opps
LHUCKS
Footballguy
ypc generally decreases with more carries. We'll see if ronnie can be the workhorse that Caddy has already proven he can be.
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ChampBailey24
Footballguy
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fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Put Ricky Williams on the Bucs last season and Ronnie Brown would have been the RoYCadillac = Rookie of the Year
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
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Everyone is comparing Brown stats and abilities vs Caddy's stats and abilities.
But, what about how a person fits into the team philosophy. Saban's coaching philosophy in the NFL is still up for debate, but I feel Saban wanted a receiving RB. The ability for the RB to be able to catch and rush was important to Saban so he could implement his style of offense.
Gruden doesn't rely on his RB to receive the ball nearly as much. He wants a grinder who can run down the gut and tire out a defense. Gruden doesn't require so much of the receiving RB as he wants a pure rusher.
Overall, I think both RBs end up with solid careers. I prefer Brown over Caddy at this point. Brown has less mileage, great supporting cast, improving team, and can catch and rush which means more consistent fantasy production.
Caddy has more mileague, not as good supporting cast (which actually might work IN his favor as he might be relied upon to carry the ball more), improving team but with a young QB, can rush and will catch some but not as much as Brown.
I see it as Brown getting the edge over Caddy, but I'd be happy with either RB.
Lately I've been seeing Brown being taken as the 4th and 6th backs picked overall in two start-up dynasty leagues with Caddy going late first round. Definitely an interesting topic.
But, what about how a person fits into the team philosophy. Saban's coaching philosophy in the NFL is still up for debate, but I feel Saban wanted a receiving RB. The ability for the RB to be able to catch and rush was important to Saban so he could implement his style of offense.
Gruden doesn't rely on his RB to receive the ball nearly as much. He wants a grinder who can run down the gut and tire out a defense. Gruden doesn't require so much of the receiving RB as he wants a pure rusher.
Overall, I think both RBs end up with solid careers. I prefer Brown over Caddy at this point. Brown has less mileage, great supporting cast, improving team, and can catch and rush which means more consistent fantasy production.
Caddy has more mileague, not as good supporting cast (which actually might work IN his favor as he might be relied upon to carry the ball more), improving team but with a young QB, can rush and will catch some but not as much as Brown.
I see it as Brown getting the edge over Caddy, but I'd be happy with either RB.
Lately I've been seeing Brown being taken as the 4th and 6th backs picked overall in two start-up dynasty leagues with Caddy going late first round. Definitely an interesting topic.
Wouldn't it be fair to say that with Brown's limited touches, the staff probably played him in a higher percentage of plays that fit his game, while Caddy being the work horse for his team played a more "all weather" role? Clearly when there isn't another option for Saban to turn to, Brown's numbers will become a more reliable data set.I know you don't look at much besides raw stats, but I thought it was worth noting.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
This has to be the worst arguement I have ever heard on this board .... please go back to posting on FFTODAY.Why was Manning taken ahead of Leaf? Why was Bledsoe taken ahead of Mirer?Because NFL GM's are right?
Now, He was taken ahead of Williams because he was the more "Complete Back" and fit their system better. I do like Browns chances of having a longer career because I don't think Williams running style will allow for him too. They are both good backs, but the ability to stay healthy is the most important thing for both of them....they need to stay healthytribecalledjeff
Footballguy
Remember that Saban coached against them both in college. I read that his defenders would come off the field saying how tough Ronnie was, and that they were glad when Caddy was in the game. Saban mentioned that as a reason for taking Ronnie.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If Ronnie had such superior talent, he should have garnered a larger role in the offense. His smaller role meant he was played in better situations that fit his game. Your ratios don't do much for me. Ronnie's 208th carry could have ended his season. At the end of the year, we can look at what a player did or didn't do. Williams had more carries, more yards, more TD's and was ROY. Brown's whole career has been playing second fiddle. Oddly enough, Williams had more yards, TD's and carries in college too with Brown on hand and at the coaching staff's disposal.
Yeah, I do think that Caddy would have demanded the lion's share of the carries in Miami had he gone there. He put Ronnie on the bench, Ricky would have faired the same.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Forgetting Caddy's record breaking carry totals as a rookie?Forgetting Caddy's injury?
You pointed out that they hit some, I pointed out that they miss some...GM's don't make mistakes?This has to be the worst arguement I have ever heard on this board .... please go back to posting on FFTODAY.Why was Manning taken ahead of Leaf? Why was Bledsoe taken ahead of Mirer?Because NFL GM's are right?
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
Oh yeah, ratios don't do much for you. Rushing yards and TDs do it. Williams had more carries. HOW DID YOU WANT BROWN TO HAVE BETTER STATS? Ricky Williams is/was one of the most talented back in the NFL. Not easy to unseat him. No way Cadillac would have done it.
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
Yeah, just like it would be fair to use ratios instead of raw stats considering Caddy had substantially more carries than Brown.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Was 290 carries a rookie record? Even over Bettis?Forgetting Caddy's record breaking carry totals as a rookie?
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
Bettis had 294.Was 290 carries a rookie record? Even over Bettis?Forgetting Caddy's record breaking carry totals as a rookie?
doughboydeluxe
Footballguy
Eric Dickerson had 390ETA: Dickerson's rookie year:Bettis had 294.Was 290 carries a rookie record? Even over Bettis?Forgetting Caddy's record breaking carry totals as a rookie?
390 carries, 1808 yards, 18 TDs
51 receptions, 404 yards, 2 TDs
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