Why waste your time thinking about players that will not help you? (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

The first thing to understand is that just a handful of players make the difference in a season. Last year was an even bigger exploitation of this as most team with LT on them went to the playoffs if not win the whole thing...in every league I was in last season, LT was on the winning team or in the Championship game...I was lucky to have him in 2 leagues last year and cashed a championship in both. I took no pride in it though as my team was so stacked with him on it, almost an unfair advantage. One league I broke nthe single season record for scoring by 325 points...that's an awful lot for a redraft league going on its 15th year.

So the piint is this, why waste so much time debating about player that will never help carry you through to the championship. After the top10 at almost all the positions, most of those players left are not winning you games every week. Let's look at some players/situations where it doesn't really matter what happens because it won't put you that far ahead anyways.

1. Brandon Jacobs/Reuben Droughns: Neither of these guys are going to put up Tiki Barber numbers, sorry to break the news to you, but I see long threads with debates going back and forth about these two players...Who gives a rats tush about them. I think the bigger question is who will start for NY in 2008? My guess is he is playing in college right now. Neither of these will be long term solutions for the Giants and neither one of them is going to win you your league this season. If this is the best you can produce to wheel out every week...you are in trouble. Did I mention their run blocking suxor too? Stop wasting time on this situation.

2. Lendale White/Chris Henry: Again, neither is going to power you to the championship this year. The Titans have had a horrible off season IMO and are staring down a 4-12 season quite possibly, plus they have the whole Pacman sideshow going on...steer clear of this situation and be glad someone else takes these guys on draft day.

3. Brandon Jackson/Vernand Morency: Neither one of these two is going to get the bulk of the load, and IMO they will split carries for much of the season. Even if they do get more carries than the other by a wide margin, neither of them is as talented as Ahman Green was, sorry. Some people are having delusions of 1,500-2,000 yds and 10-15 TD...where do you come up with this stuff?

4. Lamont Jordan/Dominic Rhodes: Nothing to see here

And I am not just talking about RB either...

5. Damon Huard/Brodie Croyle: No weapons at WR, a bad OL, Herm Edwards...just steer clear of this, its a mess.

6. Jason Campbell/Tavaris Jackson/Frye-Quinn: None of these will be good options this season at QB. I know Campbell tossed 10 TDs last season in limited duty, trust me the Skins are going to try and run the ball an awful lot.

What to do? Look for the RB that is in being ranked in the 5-15 range after LT, LJ, SJax, and Gore...other than LT, the other 3 IMO will not finish in the same order as last season. There are a bunch of good looking situations in the 5-15, maybe 5-20 range where guys have a chance to outscore their draft position by a lot. Just a few names I would throw out are Addai, Maroney, McGahee, T.Henry, I like a lot of RB in the 2nd and even 3rd tier to make a leap up at least 1 tier. Focus on the guys that can actually make a difference for you. Fine, you found a WR that was ADP at #75 off the board and he finished #38 at the end of the season...good for you, but that didn't win you the trophy did it? Not it doesn't. Its a handful of guys every year that make most of the difference.

And other than to make yourself appear highly intelligent I find no real reason why people are enamored with a bunch of undrafted free agents in camp. To me, you are wasting a lot of time that could be used on other things to help you win. A majority of those players don't ever make an impact in the NFL, few exceptions. LT, LJ, SJax, Gore, Westbrook, Addai, Maroney, McGahee, most of the top backs in the NFl were drafted and drafted high I might add, again you have a couple of exceptions but not a lot.

People that made a major impact last season and outperformed their draft spot enough to make a playoff push are...

QB: Drew Brees and Jon Kitna: Both scored north of 300 and were found well after the mannings and Palmers were off the board.

RB: Frank Gore and Maurice Jones Drew: Both were taken later and both were valuable to have, both finished in the top10 if not higher.

WR: Donald Driver, Lee Evans, and Reggie Wayne: If you had these 3 guys you probably didn't have to spend anything higher than a 3rd rounder to get it started. I plucked Wayne in the 3rd, Driver in the 4th and Evans in the 6th in most of my leagues last season. There were hardly any WR that cam from nowhere to crack the top10...Colston made it to #14...about 150 points in non PPR leagues...still about 25 points back from the 3 guys I mentioned.

So stop wasting your time on players that aren't going to make a real difference even if they outperform their draft spots by 10-20...focus on the guys that can win you a trophy, guys who are in great situations even if they are not the most tlaented...set your biasness aside for awhile.

 

[thayman]

Well it's a whole lot of fun.

 

[Beaumont]

You need to play in deeper leagues ...

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Sorry gotta disagree with you, at least for how it works in my keeper league

LT2 - 0 championships

LJ - 0 championships

S.Alexander - 0 championships

S.Jax - 0 championships

P.Manning - 1 championship

IMO fantasy football is all about finding those guys in the mid to late rounds, these are the guys that win you championships.

 

[Tough As Nails]

So people were wasting their time with Gore/Barlow talk last off-season?

 

[Wolverine]

I think you`re missing the boat here. Lots of us play in deep leagues where almost all talent is scooped up. Sometimes guys like these are the bye week fill in that lets you steal a game you might otherwise lose. With the stacked bye weeks you can`t really pass up any options. Stealing one game in most leagues is usually the difference between being in the money or congratulating the winner on a great season.

 

[Couch Potato]

The problem there, MoP, is that you can't KNOW who will make a significant difference, or when. Every year lots of leagues are won by teams that weren't the regular season champ, and they did so because the right guys came through at the right time.

Look at Ron Dayne's fantasy playoff weeks for example. He was a major fantasy point contributor. Muhammad, a perennial fantasy WR3, dominated a few years back due to a Steve Smith injury and helped me to a title as the #1 WR overall. How about Kurt Warner the year Trent Green went down. Using the 'ignore him, he's a nobody' philosophy, that opportunity goes to someone else. Antonio Gates? Priest Holmes? Willie Parker? Colston? Where do I stop? Every team ought to be as rock solid as possible, because more bullets means more shots.

Interesting that you mentioned Jones-Drew as a difference maker. A year ago he would have been one of those considered a fringe player by most. I was able to draft him with the 14th rookie pick, and look at how people view him now.

Sorry, I just can't agree that we should ignore anything, for opportunity can be found where you least expect it.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

You need to understand that not all leagues are the same. In 16 team leagues, with 2 RBs and a flex, you can bet getting the right one of those pairs could make a huge difference. I was in a deep league like this and LT got lots of points, but wasn't enough to even get me to the finals. My mid-level guys weren't good enough to carry through a less-than-stellar week from LT.

There are deep dynasty leagues where some of those training-camp-fodder guys could be worth holding in case they might turn into the rare exception.

And for your WRs, you could have done pretty well for yourself starting Colston, Cotchery and Furry and probably not spending more than a 12th rounder on any of them. (If any were even drafted)

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

You need to understand that not all leagues are the same. In 16 team leagues, with 2 RBs and a flex, you can bet getting the right one of those pairs could make a huge difference. I was in a deep league like this and LT got lots of points, but wasn't enough to even get me to the finals. My mid-level guys weren't good enough to carry through a less-than-stellar week from LT. There are deep dynasty leagues where some of those training-camp-fodder guys could be worth holding in case they might turn into the rare exception. And for your WRs, you could have done pretty well for yourself starting Colston, Cotchery and Furry and probably not spending more than a 12th rounder on any of them. (If any were even drafted)

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

You need to understand that not all leagues are the same. In 16 team leagues, with 2 RBs and a flex, you can bet getting the right one of those pairs could make a huge difference. I was in a deep league like this and LT got lots of points, but wasn't enough to even get me to the finals. My mid-level guys weren't good enough to carry through a less-than-stellar week from LT. There are deep dynasty leagues where some of those training-camp-fodder guys could be worth holding in case they might turn into the rare exception. And for your WRs, you could have done pretty well for yourself starting Colston, Cotchery and Furry and probably not spending more than a 12th rounder on any of them.

Exactly, seems like our thread starter might be playing in an 8 team league.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

So people were wasting their time with Gore/Barlow talk last off-season?

I thought it was obvious who was the better back. Gore closed 2005 strong...then Barlow was traded, it became obvious and then you add in Norv Turner and his track history...it wasn't exactly a mystery that Gore might be worth more than a 4th-6th round pick or wherever he was drafted.And to the rest of the board, I'm in a pissy mood today, sorry to ruin everyone's fun.

 

[Chop_Block]

While there is some merit to the OP's post, how many people own the best players in a league? Championships can be won or lost by those second or third teir players sometimes and while Jacobs/Droughns may not go all Tiki on opponants, what if they put up solid #2 numbers? They could, no? In which case, knowing who might get more carries could be helpful.

I'm not saying some of the debates aren't less relevant than others. But there is value in figuring out the 'dark horse' players. Especially in any league over 10 people -- where the talent thins awfully fast.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

You need to understand that not all leagues are the same. In 16 team leagues, with 2 RBs and a flex, you can bet getting the right one of those pairs could make a huge difference. I was in a deep league like this and LT got lots of points, but wasn't enough to even get me to the finals. My mid-level guys weren't good enough to carry through a less-than-stellar week from LT. There are deep dynasty leagues where some of those training-camp-fodder guys could be worth holding in case they might turn into the rare exception. And for your WRs, you could have done pretty well for yourself starting Colston, Cotchery and Furry and probably not spending more than a 12th rounder on any of them. (If any were even drafted)

Let me get this straight...you played in a 16 team league, must start 2RB, you had LT who outscored many other teams RB1/RB2 combined most weeks and you didn't make it very far? I believe you MB, I always like your posts, but in every league I was in last season, and there were a lot, LT cashed or won almost all of them. And I would agree with others that are talking about the deep rosters for bye weeks...I agree.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Another important thing at play here. We are talking about winning a championship, not just being competitive...I assume most people posting at this time of year in here know enough football to field a competitive team...we're talking about winning the championship. I again say there will be a handful of players that will make all the difference this season. many of them are not complete unknowns either.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Another important thing at play here. We are talking about winning a championship, not just being competitive...I assume most people posting at this time of year in here know enough football to field a competitive team...we're talking about winning the championship. I again say there will be a handful of players that will make all the difference this season. many of them are not complete unknowns either.

I would imagine Frank Gore, Marquis Colston and Maurice Jones-Drew all made a difference for their fantasy owners last year. Before the start of the season most people would agree these guys weren't worth talking about.I would suggest you stay out of threads that talk about players you know will not help your team.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

And for your WRs, you could have done pretty well for yourself starting Colston, Cotchery and Furry and probably not spending more than a 12th rounder on any of them. (If any were even drafted)

And during the regular season, the team that had Holt/Wayne/Driver crushed you at WR that week. Or the Owens/Burress/Evans trio as well. My point in highlighting this again was to emphasize putting a championship caliber team together. I am probably one of the few owners that really has never had a mix of middle of the road guys and won the championship...I typically need two top 5-10 RB, 3 top 10-15 WR, a top5 QB...that usually is what will carry me, and my bench typically has another top15-20 RB, and a couple more top25 WR to mix in there.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Another important thing at play here. We are talking about winning a championship, not just being competitive...I assume most people posting at this time of year in here know enough football to field a competitive team...we're talking about winning the championship. I again say there will be a handful of players that will make all the difference this season. many of them are not complete unknowns either.

I would imagine Frank Gore, Marquis Colston and Maurice Jones-Drew all made a difference for their fantasy owners last year. Before the start of the season most people would agree these guys weren't worth talking about.I would suggest you stay out of threads that talk about players you know will not help your team.

AB, it was obvious Gore was going to be the guy in a Norv Turner offense...it wasn't that big a leap of faith. And MJD was talked about a lot. I think he overshot his forecast by a ton and might trickle back down to Earth a bit this year especially in the TD department. Colston didn't even make the top10...he finished 14th, yes he was a great story and he made a lot of owners run to the WW in week 1...but he also had his moments like many other WR where he vanished a bit. And you don't see me go in and rain down on a lot of threads where i don't care about the players as much. I typically weigh in more often on guys I think will underperform.

 

[Dirk Digler]

why waste so much time debating about player that will never help carry you through to the championship.

We do it just to piss you off.

 

[Couch Potato]

MoP, I'll be blunt on this one my friend. Quit while you're behind. You're way off base on this subject. It's just foolish to assume you will always know who will be an impact player and who will not, or how playoffs will play out.

Ask any owner who won a championship after entering the playoffs 8-5. He'll tell you.

 

[AnonymousBob]

And for your WRs, you could have done pretty well for yourself starting Colston, Cotchery and Furry and probably not spending more than a 12th rounder on any of them. (If any were even drafted)

And during the regular season, the team that had Holt/Wayne/Driver crushed you at WR that week. Or the Owens/Burress/Evans trio as well. My point in highlighting this again was to emphasize putting a championship caliber team together. I am probably one of the few owners that really has never had a mix of middle of the road guys and won the championship...I typically need two top 5-10 RB, 3 top 10-15 WR, a top5 QB...that usually is what will carry me, and my bench typically has another top15-20 RB, and a couple more top25 WR to mix in there.

Are you fishing here? For those of us mere mortals who are incapable of drafting a top 5 qb, two, top 10 rb's and 3 top 15 wr's late round draft picks can become extremely valuable if they pan out.

 

[bonscott]

I had LT last year in one league and barely won the championship. Let me explain.

Started out of the gate quick with a couple wins but then injuries and ineffective players left me at barely over .500 in week 10 at the trade deadline. My problem was that LT was scoring 50 pts a week but my whole team of 9 starters barely got 110 (110 will not win many games in my league, better get 140+).

I actually was shopping LT around since I was not hopeful of even making the playoffs let alone get very far. But I didn't.

Then things fell into place for me weeks 11 and on:

Coles woke up and started having big games again

I had traded for a hurt McGahee and he came back with strong games

Jamal Lewis found new life

Furrey was on fire

QB by committee was working ok (Grossman and Jason Campbell if you can believe it)

These same players sucked the middle of the season.

Now I was able to get 30-50 from LT AND get 100+ from the rest of my guys. Nearly ran the table to make the playoffs 3rd in my division and won the championship (with a Ron Dayne assist I might add).

So LT alone didn't win me anything. It was all the other players on my team that made the difference.

 

[Garts]

You need to understand that not all leagues are the same. In 16 team leagues, with 2 RBs and a flex, you can bet getting the right one of those pairs could make a huge difference. I was in a deep league like this and LT got lots of points, but wasn't enough to even get me to the finals. My mid-level guys weren't good enough to carry through a less-than-stellar week from LT. There are deep dynasty leagues where some of those training-camp-fodder guys could be worth holding in case they might turn into the rare exception. And for your WRs, you could have done pretty well for yourself starting Colston, Cotchery and Furry and probably not spending more than a 12th rounder on any of them. (If any were even drafted)

Let me get this straight...you played in a 16 team league, must start 2RB, you had LT who outscored many other teams RB1/RB2 combined most weeks and you didn't make it very far? I believe you MB, I always like your posts, but in every league I was in last season, and there were a lot, LT cashed or won almost all of them. And I would agree with others that are talking about the deep rosters for bye weeks...I agree.

12 team league I was in last year...keeper league..I started this line-up every week..basic TD lague with some yardage pointsPalmerLTRudiHoltS. SmithCooleyKaeding SteelersBoldin at WR... T. Bell or M. Bell RB were bye-week fillersThat line-up was dynamite and I was .500...every team I played against put up their highest totals of the year...AD I lost in the semi's...

 

[AnonymousBob]

Another important thing at play here. We are talking about winning a championship, not just being competitive...I assume most people posting at this time of year in here know enough football to field a competitive team...we're talking about winning the championship. I again say there will be a handful of players that will make all the difference this season. many of them are not complete unknowns either.

I would imagine Frank Gore, Marquis Colston and Maurice Jones-Drew all made a difference for their fantasy owners last year. Before the start of the season most people would agree these guys weren't worth talking about.I would suggest you stay out of threads that talk about players you know will not help your team.

AB, it was obvious Gore was going to be the guy in a Norv Turner offense...it wasn't that big a leap of faith. And MJD was talked about a lot. I think he overshot his forecast by a ton and might trickle back down to Earth a bit this year especially in the TD department. Colston didn't even make the top10...he finished 14th, yes he was a great story and he made a lot of owners run to the WW in week 1...but he also had his moments like many other WR where he vanished a bit. And you don't see me go in and rain down on a lot of threads where i don't care about the players as much. I typically weigh in more often on guys I think will underperform.

You're going to need a bigger boat. You dismiss a guy like Colston because he only finished as the #14 wr when just a few posts earlier you said you needed three top 15 wr's? If you want to argue it's a waste of a pick to draft known mediocrity then I won't necessarily argue with you. Think Barlow when he was starting in SF-yes, he was going to get SOME yardage and a td here and there but if you ever had to rely on him then your team had bigger issues to deal with. A player such as that is a waste of a roster spot in all but the largest of leagues. However, to suggest an unkown player isn't worth talking about simply because they don't have a track record is foolish. Jacobs could easily fall on his face or propel many teams into the playoffs.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

why waste so much time debating about player that will never help carry you through to the championship.

We do it just to piss you off.

 

[Sleeper 43]

The first thing to understand is that just a handful of players make the difference in a season. Last year was an even bigger exploitation of this as most team with LT on them went to the playoffs if not win the whole thing...in every league I was in last season, LT was on the winning team or in the Championship game...I was lucky to have him in 2 leagues last year and cashed a championship in both. I took no pride in it though as my team was so stacked with him on it, almost an unfair advantage. One league I broke nthe single season record for scoring by 325 points...that's an awful lot for a redraft league going on its 15th year. So the piint is this, why waste so much time debating about player that will never help carry you through to the championship. After the top10 at almost all the positions, most of those players left are not winning you games every week. Let's look at some players/situations where it doesn't really matter what happens because it won't put you that far ahead anyways.1. Brandon Jacobs/Reuben Droughns: Neither of these guys are going to put up Tiki Barber numbers, sorry to break the news to you, but I see long threads with debates going back and forth about these two players...Who gives a rats tush about them. I think the bigger question is who will start for NY in 2008? My guess is he is playing in college right now. Neither of these will be long term solutions for the Giants and neither one of them is going to win you your league this season. If this is the best you can produce to wheel out every week...you are in trouble. Did I mention their run blocking suxor too? Stop wasting time on this situation.2. Lendale White/Chris Henry: Again, neither is going to power you to the championship this year. The Titans have had a horrible off season IMO and are staring down a 4-12 season quite possibly, plus they have the whole Pacman sideshow going on...steer clear of this situation and be glad someone else takes these guys on draft day. 3. Brandon Jackson/Vernand Morency: Neither one of these two is going to get the bulk of the load, and IMO they will split carries for much of the season. Even if they do get more carries than the other by a wide margin, neither of them is as talented as Ahman Green was, sorry. Some people are having delusions of 1,500-2,000 yds and 10-15 TD...where do you come up with this stuff? 4. Lamont Jordan/Dominic Rhodes: Nothing to see hereAnd I am not just talking about RB either...5. Damon Huard/Brodie Croyle: No weapons at WR, a bad OL, Herm Edwards...just steer clear of this, its a mess.6. Jason Campbell/Tavaris Jackson/Frye-Quinn: None of these will be good options this season at QB. I know Campbell tossed 10 TDs last season in limited duty, trust me the Skins are going to try and run the ball an awful lot. What to do? Look for the RB that is in being ranked in the 5-15 range after LT, LJ, SJax, and Gore...other than LT, the other 3 IMO will not finish in the same order as last season. There are a bunch of good looking situations in the 5-15, maybe 5-20 range where guys have a chance to outscore their draft position by a lot. Just a few names I would throw out are Addai, Maroney, McGahee, T.Henry, I like a lot of RB in the 2nd and even 3rd tier to make a leap up at least 1 tier. Focus on the guys that can actually make a difference for you. Fine, you found a WR that was ADP at #75 off the board and he finished #38 at the end of the season...good for you, but that didn't win you the trophy did it? Not it doesn't. Its a handful of guys every year that make most of the difference.And other than to make yourself appear highly intelligent I find no real reason why people are enamored with a bunch of undrafted free agents in camp. To me, you are wasting a lot of time that could be used on other things to help you win. A majority of those players don't ever make an impact in the NFL, few exceptions. LT, LJ, SJax, Gore, Westbrook, Addai, Maroney, McGahee, most of the top backs in the NFl were drafted and drafted high I might add, again you have a couple of exceptions but not a lot. People that made a major impact last season and outperformed their draft spot enough to make a playoff push are...QB: Drew Brees and Jon Kitna: Both scored north of 300 and were found well after the mannings and Palmers were off the board.RB: Frank Gore and Maurice Jones Drew: Both were taken later and both were valuable to have, both finished in the top10 if not higher.WR: Donald Driver, Lee Evans, and Reggie Wayne: If you had these 3 guys you probably didn't have to spend anything higher than a 3rd rounder to get it started. I plucked Wayne in the 3rd, Driver in the 4th and Evans in the 6th in most of my leagues last season. There were hardly any WR that cam from nowhere to crack the top10...Colston made it to #14...about 150 points in non PPR leagues...still about 25 points back from the 3 guys I mentioned. So stop wasting your time on players that aren't going to make a real difference even if they outperform their draft spots by 10-20...focus on the guys that can win you a trophy, guys who are in great situations even if they are not the most tlaented...set your biasness aside for awhile.

Besides Jason Campbell and Brandon Jacobs , I agree. Both the guys have been chomping at the bit to get there shot. They both showed promise last year. And yes, like others have said in Dynasty all of these guys have relevance. Whether there your starter or not, if there on your squad its good to know how they are valued by yourself and others.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

And for your WRs, you could have done pretty well for yourself starting Colston, Cotchery and Furry and probably not spending more than a 12th rounder on any of them. (If any were even drafted)

And during the regular season, the team that had Holt/Wayne/Driver crushed you at WR that week. Or the Owens/Burress/Evans trio as well. My point in highlighting this again was to emphasize putting a championship caliber team together. I am probably one of the few owners that really has never had a mix of middle of the road guys and won the championship...I typically need two top 5-10 RB, 3 top 10-15 WR, a top5 QB...that usually is what will carry me, and my bench typically has another top15-20 RB, and a couple more top25 WR to mix in there.

Are you fishing here? For those of us mere mortals who are incapable of drafting a top 5 qb, two, top 10 rb's and 3 top 15 wr's late round draft picks can become extremely valuable if they pan out.

But AB you can assemble that without getting lucky in the 12th round. Donald Driver and Reggie Wayne for example were guys in the 10-20 range that not just myself but lots of people were screaming about last season to get on your roster because they had top5 potential...both instances poeple were right. And those 2 players could be had without having to really reach or maneuver in the redrafts.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I had LT last year in one league and barely won the championship. Let me explain.Started out of the gate quick with a couple wins but then injuries and ineffective players left me at barely over .500 in week 10 at the trade deadline. My problem was that LT was scoring 50 pts a week but my whole team of 9 starters barely got 110 (110 will not win many games in my league, better get 140+).I actually was shopping LT around since I was not hopeful of even making the playoffs let alone get very far. But I didn't.Then things fell into place for me weeks 11 and on:Coles woke up and started having big games againI had traded for a hurt McGahee and he came back with strong gamesJamal Lewis found new lifeFurrey was on fireQB by committee was working ok (Grossman and Jason Campbell if you can believe it)These same players sucked the middle of the season.Now I was able to get 30-50 from LT AND get 100+ from the rest of my guys. Nearly ran the table to make the playoffs 3rd in my division and won the championship (with a Ron Dayne assist I might add).So LT alone didn't win me anything. It was all the other players on my team that made the difference.

Another winner with LT on his roster.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Please list your team from last year and what round you acquired each player. If you're in multiple leagues feel free to list whichever team will best suit your argument.

 

[Pickle Rody]

Sorry to burst your bubble MOP, but I did not own LT. The guy who did had a fantastic year during the regular season, then it came crashing down around him (even being the No. 1 seed) during the playoffs. His team was not set up to handle tough times, and he knew it.

Me? I had SA, Edge, P. Manning, Wayne and Boldin heading into our draft. I picked up Colston and MJD on waivers during the season and rode those two guys to a championship. I knew of them because I paid attention during the pre-season and did not need to use a draft pick on them (Ok, MJD was drafted by another, but later dropped, so I snagged him, being knowledgable and all......)

You are incorrect that one only need to pay attention to the top tier guys. It will be your fatal flaw this coming season, if you really believe this.

Also, Congratulations on your earned Championships in 2006!!!!!!

 

[Dirk Digler]

But seriously... in 2003 we started a IDP dynasty league with 53 man rosters (zealots).... the reason we talk about even the most obscure players....

2003 I got....

13th round... Larry JOhnson

23rd round... Antonio Gates

27th round... Drew Brees

39th round... Adrian Wilson

47th round... Osi Umenyiora

That's just a few gems I got on the steal because I knew just a lil' more than some of me league mates...

and because of some other good things that have happened I have been dominating this league for years...

knowledge is power. more knowledge is more power. actually it's the only tool. you make choices that's the only control in this game.... you make choices based on knowledge.... then the chips fall where they may.

don't hate the playa'z... this IS THE game.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Please list your team from last year and what round you acquired each player. If you're in multiple leagues feel free to list whichever team will best suit your argument.

Lets do it this way...my team is not as relevent. Let's list the top20 WR according to FBG last season for total points scored.1. Harrison2. Owens3. Wayne4. Chad Johnson5. Holt6. Driver7. Evans8. Steve Smith9. Walker10. Roy Williams11. Housh12. Burress13. DJax14. Colston15. Galloway16. Coles17. Boldin18. Andre Johnson19. Furrey20. GlennNow other than Colston#14, and Furrey#19, who came from nowhere? Was it better to try and focus on the top players and debate Smith vs Wayne...or was it better to be tracking the undrafted free agent WR in all these camps that I see everyone talking about. I'm not saying I am 100% right, just think people waste a lot of effort on players that will never win them a championship. That was all I was saying really.Edited to add: Once Furrey was the #2WR in a Mike Martz offense it wasn't hard to piece things together. And most people plucked Colston off the WW along with MJD...I don't consider that brain surgery exactly. Guy pops a big game and you pluck him off waivers...that's what FF owners are supposed to do. I don't remember reading a lot of hype on Colston preseason for redrafts last year. I rememner Corey bradford was hyped in Detroit...we knew the #2WR in Detroit was possible money, we jsut had the worng player.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Sorry to burst your bubble MOP, but I did not own LT. The guy who did had a fantastic year during the regular season, then it came crashing down around him (even being the No. 1 seed) during the playoffs. His team was not set up to handle tough times, and he knew it.Me? I had SA, Edge, P. Manning, Wayne and Boldin heading into our draft. I picked up Colston and MJD on waivers during the season and rode those two guys to a championship. I knew of them because I paid attention during the pre-season and did not need to use a draft pick on them (Ok, MJD was drafted by another, but later dropped, so I snagged him, being knowledgable and all......)You are incorrect that one only need to pay attention to the top tier guys. It will be your fatal flaw this coming season, if you really believe this.Also, Congratulations on your earned Championships in 2006!!!!!!

Guys like MJD were chillin on your waivers?

 

[David Yudkin]

MOP -

I wish I could play in one of your leagues . . . oh, wait, I already do.

While I agree that many of these situations will basically turn into "nothing to see here" scenarios, some of them will not. And if you get a piece of the action on the ones that amount to something and you bought at a discount, well, then you're on to something.

You can live on slop fantasywise, and as long as your guys are producing it doesn't matter if the guys doing it are bona fide studs and All Pros or guys that really should not have a job (no offense to the Furrey family). Let me guess, you were one of the ones that siad to avoid the 49ers last year and to avoid all SF RBs.

IMO, you need to find guys that will be at or near the top of the rankings no matter where you draft them. You also need mid to lower tier guys that can be productive when called upon. If I can get a RB2 in the 6th round while someone else has to use a 2nd round pick, I'm happy. If someone takes a WR1 in the 3rd round and I can get one in the 8th, I'm also happy. one man's trash is another man's treasure, and a lot of times this seemingly unclear, uninteresting situations play themselves out but they scared people off and reap huge dividends.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Please list your team from last year and what round you acquired each player. If you're in multiple leagues feel free to list whichever team will best suit your argument.

Lets do it this way...my team is not as relevent. Let's list the top20 WR according to FBG last season for total points scored.1. Harrison2. Owens3. Wayne4. Chad Johnson5. Holt6. Driver7. Evans8. Steve Smith9. Walker10. Roy Williams11. Housh12. Burress13. DJax14. Colston15. Galloway16. Coles17. Boldin18. Andre Johnson19. Furrey20. GlennNow other than Colston#14, and Furrey#19, who came from nowhere? Was it better to try and focus on the top players and debate Smith vs Wayne...or was it better to be tracking the undrafted free agent WR in all these camps that I see everyone talking about. I'm not saying I am 100% right, just think people waste a lot of effort on players that will never win them a championship. That was all I was saying really.

Let's look at where players were projected at the start of the season. Anyone have that? If you picked Burress your season went well but if you spent an early pick on Chambers you were in a whole lot of trouble. Fact is, if you hit on all your picks then those late round guys don't matter at all. Most people draft at least one player who gets injured or who flat out falls on his face. I play in a 10 person league so these extremely obscure players Bloom and other hype I generally ignore. I can see how these guys would become very important in larger dynasty leagues. Really, those types of leagues are what Bloom was hired for. If a player flops 99 times out of 100 but that last player is someone such as Gates, FWP, etc, then it was worth all the wasted time educating yourself on those nobodies.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

MOP -I wish I could play in one of your leagues . . . oh, wait, I already do.While I agree that many of these situations will basically turn into "nothing to see here" scenarios, some of them will not. And if you get a piece of the action on the ones that amount to something and you bought at a discount, well, then you're on to something.You can live on slop fantasywise, and as long as your guys are producing it doesn't matter if the guys doing it are bona fide studs and All Pros or guys that really should not have a job (no offense to the Furrey family). Let me guess, you were one of the ones that siad to avoid the 49ers last year and to avoid all SF RBs.IMO, you need to find guys that will be at or near the top of the rankings no matter where you draft them. You also need mid to lower tier guys that can be productive when called upon. If I can get a RB2 in the 6th round while someone else has to use a 2nd round pick, I'm happy. If someone takes a WR1 in the 3rd round and I can get one in the 8th, I'm also happy. one man's trash is another man's treasure, and a lot of times this seemingly unclear, uninteresting situations play themselves out but they scared people off and reap huge dividends.

Hey David,I was not much of a dynasty league guy before last season...I was invited into a few leagues to clean up messes left behind, not all but most of the ones where I get the pleasure of competing with guys like yourself. One thing you will notice about me is that I play to win this season. I am not interested as much how my team will look in 3-4 years but if I can win now I want to do it. Now the exception is at RB where I do try and go after the young RB in seasons 1-3 who I can keep on my roster for the next 3-4 seasons...I don't value youth at WR very much. I much prefer the vets that rank in the top5 year in and year out, they tend to help you cash and play for championships.Maybe I have it allw rong but there are so many teams playing for 2-3 years down the road, it really opens the flood gsates for folks that want to try and win it all in the present year. My HA/2 draft was very much like that.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Please list your team from last year and what round you acquired each player. If you're in multiple leagues feel free to list whichever team will best suit your argument.

Lets do it this way...my team is not as relevent. Let's list the top20 WR according to FBG last season for total points scored.1. Harrison2. Owens3. Wayne4. Chad Johnson5. Holt6. Driver7. Evans8. Steve Smith9. Walker10. Roy Williams11. Housh12. Burress13. DJax14. Colston15. Galloway16. Coles17. Boldin18. Andre Johnson19. Furrey20. GlennNow other than Colston#14, and Furrey#19, who came from nowhere? Was it better to try and focus on the top players and debate Smith vs Wayne...or was it better to be tracking the undrafted free agent WR in all these camps that I see everyone talking about. I'm not saying I am 100% right, just think people waste a lot of effort on players that will never win them a championship. That was all I was saying really.

Let's look at where players were projected at the start of the season. Anyone have that? If you picked Burress your season went well but if you spent an early pick on Chambers you were in a whole lot of trouble. Fact is, if you hit on all your picks then those late round guys don't matter at all. Most people draft at least one player who gets injured or who flat out falls on his face. I play in a 10 person league so these extremely obscure players Bloom and other hype I generally ignore. I can see how these guys would become very important in larger dynasty leagues. Really, those types of leagues are what Bloom was hired for. If a player flops 99 times out of 100 but that last player is someone such as Gates, FWP, etc, then it was worth all the wasted time educating yourself on those nobodies.

Most of those WR were probably projected top20 guys...most were taken in rounds 2-6...I agree that Chambers hurt owners but there was a lot of finger pointing to his targets vs catches so most guys were forewarned ahead of time.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

MoP,

Normally you are thought-provoking, but here you're just provoking.

Even in 12 team leagues you can win a championship without LT2.

I did quite well in many leagues without his services.

I fail to see where you are going with this at all.

 

[coolnerd]

MOP,

I will listen to an argument that says we spend too much time talking about situations Packers or Giants RB, but at the end of the day most players don't have the dream line up 2 top 10 Rbs, 3 top 15 wrs and are winning games by having RB15 as their 2nd guy instead of RB 22. Just because someone has the name brand players does not mean I am going to rollover and give up on winning.

While I would rather have the obvious great team, the reality is that I am going to have to figure out where i can get the 1.0 to 1.5 point difference between my 2nd Rb and flex player over the next guys in most cases. And yes I won a league starting Furrey and MJD last year.

 

[V1LL]

I've had Tomlinson since his rookie year and haven't won a 'ship since. Prior to drafting him I won 5 straight.

 

[datonn]

Obviously this thread seems to have more of a focus on re-draft, but I do think it needs to be said that a LOT of chatter about the "players who will not help you" (in 2007) are actually folks kicking-around ideas related to future value, NOT current value. Dynasty is where it's at. Re-draft blows IMHO...as it is TOO much based upon luck and not enough on patience/skill. Dynasty leagues, particularly DEEP dynasty leagues, care immensely about who is currently the WR4 or RB2-3 on several NFL teams. If MOP is primarily talking about re-draft though, then his point is at least worth consideration (though I think championships are won in the middle/latter rounds, via depth for injuries and bye weeks). As I mentioned earlier though, re-draft blows. Why anyone would want to "waste their time" playing re-draft is beyond me....but I digress.

 

[komments]

I think what is missing here is guys like Jacobs, Morency (or Jackson), Lynch are going to help people win championships because they are players you can take later and still get second round production from them.

Sure LT won a LOT of leagues last year. But that is because he outscored the second best back by 100 points in non-PPR leagues. He also scored more than 100 points more than he did the year before. So if you are counting on similar production THIS year, you are likely to be disappointed. Getting LT means you don't pick again until the end of the second round. And by then, those 5-15 RBs you mentioned are ALL gone.

In one mock this year I took Manning in the first (11th pick - 10 RBs gone). I ended up with Maroney (2nd), Lynch (3rd), Julius Jones (7th), Dominic Rhodes (9th) and Michael Bush (10th) as my backs. Since we can only start two, I feel solid but not spectacular at the position. Of course with Manning and McNabb as my two QBs I feel pretty darn solid there.

Clayton Gray is also competing in this mock so he may have a thread about it around here already.

In this league, the guy who took LT also took Reggie Wayne (2nd) and Larry Fitzgerald (3rd). While this looks nice on paper - in leagues that don't award a point per reception, the difference between the top WRs and those ranked in the 15-20 range is about 4 points per game. The top WR last year averaged 13 points per game.

It's nice to have steady WRs, but getting them left him with Jamal Lewis as his second back and Booker, Hunt and Irons (he also has Michael Turner) as guys he will depend on if injuries hit or during bye weeks. Not an enviable position. But he IS expecting Tomlinson to match last year's numbers. I don't.

I expect Tomlinson to be at or near the top of the RB rankings but let's face it - 30 TDs two years running is an awful lot to expect of anyone. I suspect Tomlinson will put up about 2100 total yards and 15-18 TDs. Those are still great numbers but well short of what he did last year.

The point is - you have to know your rules intimately and the picks that will differentiate you from the pack are those you make after the third round. So talking about Jacobs, Jackson and White are not only important; they are critical to a team's success.

Here's a discussion you might want to consider - Atlanta traditionally has a strong running game. The new coaching staff is dedicated to using Dunn in the passing game - a part of the game he excelled at in Tampa but has become MIA in Atlanta. Jerrious Norwood looked very exciting at times last year. How much does Norwood cut into Dunn's time this year AND how much does the potential doubling of his passing statistics impact his overall ranking? Dunn and/or Norwood are those RB3/4 players that could have a very large impact on certain games for their fantasy teams this year. No, they won't replace LT or any of the top backs - but most leagues require you to start two or three RBs each week - and unfortunately you can only play LT in one of those spots.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Obviously this thread seems to have more of a focus on re-draft, but I do think it needs to be said that a LOT of chatter about the "players who will not help you" (in 2007) are actually folks kicking-around ideas related to future value, NOT current value. Dynasty is where it's at. Re-draft blows IMHO...as it is TOO much based upon luck and not enough on patience/skill. Dynasty leagues, particularly DEEP dynasty leagues, care immensely about who is currently the WR4 or RB2-3 on several NFL teams. If MOP is primarily talking about re-draft though, then his point is at least worth consideration (though I think championships are won in the middle/latter rounds, via depth for injuries and bye weeks). As I mentioned earlier though, re-draft blows. Why anyone would want to "waste their time" playing re-draft is beyond me....but I digress.

This thread was absolutely for redrafts, I should have made that much clearer.

 

[G-King]

Another important thing at play here. We are talking about winning a championship, not just being competitive...I assume most people posting at this time of year in here know enough football to field a competitive team...we're talking about winning the championship. I again say there will be a handful of players that will make all the difference this season. many of them are not complete unknowns either.

I would imagine Frank Gore, Marquis Colston and Maurice Jones-Drew all made a difference for their fantasy owners last year. Before the start of the season most people would agree these guys weren't worth talking about.I would suggest you stay out of threads that talk about players you know will not help your team.

The guy in our league who had Gore won the coveted a## trophy (last place) because he didnt draft well in the later rounds, and the team with both Colston and MJD missed the playoffs ...FWIW.

 

[NCPanthersFan]

You need to play in deeper leagues ... :X

 

[DA RAIDERS]

the sad part is that i'm stuck with some of these bums in dynasty leagues

 

[Mungo Burrows]

And for your WRs, you could have done pretty well for yourself starting Colston, Cotchery and Furry and probably not spending more than a 12th rounder on any of them. (If any were even drafted)

And during the regular season, the team that had Holt/Wayne/Driver crushed you at WR that week. Or the Owens/Burress/Evans trio as well. My point in highlighting this again was to emphasize putting a championship caliber team together. I am probably one of the few owners that really has never had a mix of middle of the road guys and won the championship...I typically need two top 5-10 RB, 3 top 10-15 WR, a top5 QB...that usually is what will carry me, and my bench typically has another top15-20 RB, and a couple more top25 WR to mix in there.

If I recall correctly, Holt, Wayne and Driver were all gone before my 4th pick in that 16 team league, so unless you are advocating that I not take a RB until rd 4 (where I'd be debating between the likes of the guys you say are irrelevant as my rb1) in a start 2rb+flex league, I can't assemble that kind of WR squad. I'll stick by my assertion that you're making generalizations without considering the variety in league setup and skill.

 

[chook]

Redrafts played in 2006: 3

Refdrafts won in 2006: 3

Teams with LT: 0

Paying no attention to offseason positional battles:

I don't like redrafts either (thought I'd try some again for the first time in a few years in '06), but if you want to play in and win a redraft this year, take some Bengals players, or at least trade for them late. They play the 49ers & Browns in weeks 15 & 16.

 

[benbadman]

WR: Donald Driver, Lee Evans, and Reggie Wayne: If you had these 3 guys you probably didn't have to spend anything higher than a 3rd rounder to get it started. I plucked Wayne in the 3rd, Driver in the 4th and Evans in the 6th in most of my leagues last season. There were hardly any WR that cam from nowhere to crack the top10...Colston made it to #14...about 150 points in non PPR leagues...still about 25 points back from the 3 guys I mentioned.

Funny you mention those guys, because in my 10 team league Wayne went 3.08, Driver 4.07, and Evans 6.08.Yes having a super-elite player (like LT, LJ or SJ last year) having a career season will win carry your team to a winning season, but if you don't have those players, you have to figure out how to assemble a team that can beat those teams 1-2 times each per season. If your league schedule is already out, you can know if you get lucky and play those kind of teams when their superstar is on Bye, or if you have to man up for a Chargers/Raiders matchup.Other people make good points tho, alot of office leagues and big money leagues have 12,14, even 16 teams. So in a 14 or 16 team league, making the right decision on the NYG, TEN or GB situation for a RB2/RB3 that has a solid season, *will* win you games.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think what is missing here is guys like Jacobs, Morency (or Jackson), Lynch are going to help people win championships because they are players you can take later and still get second round production from them.Sure LT won a LOT of leagues last year. But that is because he outscored the second best back by 100 points in non-PPR leagues. He also scored more than 100 points more than he did the year before. So if you are counting on similar production THIS year, you are likely to be disappointed. Getting LT means you don't pick again until the end of the second round. And by then, those 5-15 RBs you mentioned are ALL gone.In one mock this year I took Manning in the first (11th pick - 10 RBs gone). I ended up with Maroney (2nd), Lynch (3rd), Julius Jones (7th), Dominic Rhodes (9th) and Michael Bush (10th) as my backs. Since we can only start two, I feel solid but not spectacular at the position. Of course with Manning and McNabb as my two QBs I feel pretty darn solid there.Clayton Gray is also competing in this mock so he may have a thread about it around here already.In this league, the guy who took LT also took Reggie Wayne (2nd) and Larry Fitzgerald (3rd). While this looks nice on paper - in leagues that don't award a point per reception, the difference between the top WRs and those ranked in the 15-20 range is about 4 points per game. The top WR last year averaged 13 points per game. It's nice to have steady WRs, but getting them left him with Jamal Lewis as his second back and Booker, Hunt and Irons (he also has Michael Turner) as guys he will depend on if injuries hit or during bye weeks. Not an enviable position. But he IS expecting Tomlinson to match last year's numbers. I don't.I expect Tomlinson to be at or near the top of the RB rankings but let's face it - 30 TDs two years running is an awful lot to expect of anyone. I suspect Tomlinson will put up about 2100 total yards and 15-18 TDs. Those are still great numbers but well short of what he did last year.The point is - you have to know your rules intimately and the picks that will differentiate you from the pack are those you make after the third round. So talking about Jacobs, Jackson and White are not only important; they are critical to a team's success.Here's a discussion you might want to consider - Atlanta traditionally has a strong running game. The new coaching staff is dedicated to using Dunn in the passing game - a part of the game he excelled at in Tampa but has become MIA in Atlanta. Jerrious Norwood looked very exciting at times last year. How much does Norwood cut into Dunn's time this year AND how much does the potential doubling of his passing statistics impact his overall ranking? Dunn and/or Norwood are those RB3/4 players that could have a very large impact on certain games for their fantasy teams this year. No, they won't replace LT or any of the top backs - but most leagues require you to start two or three RBs each week - and unfortunately you can only play LT in one of those spots.

Hi Mr Kellogg, long time reader and admirer, good points but I disagree that Jacobs is going to produce like a 2nd rounder.

 

[Burning Sensation]

So people were wasting their time with Gore/Barlow talk last off-season?

I thought it was obvious who was the better back. Gore closed 2005 strong...then Barlow was traded, it became obvious and then you add in Norv Turner and his track history...it wasn't exactly a mystery that Gore might be worth more than a 4th-6th round pick or wherever he was drafted.And to the rest of the board, I'm in a pissy mood today, sorry to ruin everyone's fun.

What happened, somebody open a can of tuna next to you on your lunch break?P.S. This thread is ridiculous, you are basically saying if i cant get LT, i may as well drop out of the league.