Wild Cat formation.... (1 Viewer)

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I think SSOG has made a very good point about the wildcat and I stole what he said and bolded it here to have a discussion about it.

This is all in regards to the Wild Cat formation and someone saying that it is just something that is a flash in the pan and will be gone soon as defenses now know it is coming and teams will stop using it. This was SSOG's response. What do you guys think?

Alright, let's think about it.

Let's say I've thought about it, and decided that a running play is the best option in a given situation. If I draw up a traditional running play, there will be 1 guy carrying the ball, 1 guy taking the snap and handing the ball off, and 9 guys blocking. The defense will have 11 tacklers, so tacklers will outnumber defenders 11 to 9. Now, if I draw up a Wildcat running play, I have 1 guy taking the snap and carrying the ball, and 10 guys blocking. The defense's personnel advantage is reduced to an 11 on 10. That seems like a sound reason to take my best QB out and let an RB take the snaps to me. In order to get the equivalent effect while leaving my best QB on the field, I'd have to trot 12 men on offense. Would you say that having what amounts to an extra offensive player on the field is a sound reason to run a play?

Think about it.

 

[David Yudkin]

Not sure why I am signature worthy, but . . .

While the offense gets one more player to block with, the defense also would get a huge advantage in knowing the play will not be a pass.

I think the wildcat will fizzle out pretty quickly once teams practice defending it, stop it more than they did last year, and a starting QB playing WR gets popped and misses a month of the season. From the times I say the wildcat, the regular QB stayed in the game to add at least a threat of a pass and some chance of razzle dazzle.

 

[SSOG]

Not sure why I am signature worthy, but . . .

While the offense gets one more player to block with, the defense also would get a huge advantage in knowing the play will not be a pass.

I think the wildcat will fizzle out pretty quickly once teams practice defending it, stop it more than they did last year, and a starting QB playing WR gets popped and misses a month of the season. From the times I say the wildcat, the regular QB stayed in the game to add at least a threat of a pass and some chance of razzle dazzle.

That's the key though- the defense *DOESN'T* know the play won't be a pass. Good wildcat playbooks will contain several passes designed to be used as constraint plays to keep the defense honest. If the defense isn't playing honestly (i.e. if they're playing run all the time), then those constraint plays will be open all day long. If the defense *IS* playing honestly, then the wildcat is a fundamentally sound football offense that
Smart Football also makes a good point that it's silly to say an offense won't work in the pros because it's a "college offense"... because Bill Walsh's WCO was originally a "college offense" at Stanford before it made the jump to the pros (and was a high school offense before it made the jump to college).

 

[kremenull]

Not sure why I am signature worthy, but . . .

While the offense gets one more player to block with, the defense also would get a huge advantage in knowing the play will not be a pass.

I think the wildcat will fizzle out pretty quickly once teams practice defending it, stop it more than they did last year, and a starting QB playing WR gets popped and misses a month of the season. From the times I say the wildcat, the regular QB stayed in the game to add at least a threat of a pass and some chance of razzle dazzle.

Huh? Why does the defense know it will not be a pass? Pat White? Mike Vick? McFadden? Dixon? Ronnie Brown even? These guys have thrown passes, correct?Most people are under the impression that they've seen everything the Wildcat can do just by watching what the Dolphins did last year. That was only scratching the surface of this formation. It really will be interesting when teams take out the weak link of the pkg (e.g., Pennington) and put stellar athletes in the skill positions of the pkg.

 

[kremenull]

Don't take my word for it, though. I think we'd all agree that Jon Gruden has probably forgotten more about offense than we'll ever know. Gruden has said that he thinks Tebow will revolutionize the NFL because he's a "wildcat who can throw"- meaning Gruden thinks the wildcat is a viable NFL offense. Belichick is also reportedly very high on Tebow, which either means that Belichick thinks that Tebow is an elite pocket passer, or it means that he thinks the "QB as a ballcarrier" thing has some chance of working in the NFL

Man, Tebow can't hold Pryor's jock.......when it's time to play for the $$$ on Sundays, this will become evident for all to see...And yeah, he will steal his nickname as well, "The Chosen One"......Tebow is college (Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier), Pryor is pro (Don McNabb and Tom Brady)

 

[kremenull]

How many of my threads did you all want to duplicate?.......js sayin.....

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=476531&hl=

 

[SSOG]

More from Smart Football on the wildcat:

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/search?q...+NFL+offense%22

This is where the wildcat stuff becomes intriguing. The theme for this offseason seems to be that every team is studying the wildcat or looking to install it. There's strategic reasons for this and there's practical ones.

The strategic reason is that the arithmetic doesn't lie: When you run the ball and your quarterback stands there just watching the play, his defensive counterpart can assault the runner. And even if his counterpart holds back, the runner's counterpart remains unblocked; you win games by getting the defense to commit two players to one of yours and thus gain an advantage. The wildcat -- as with the triple option or shotgun spread offense where the quarterback is a run threat -- does this. That's why I predicted back in September 2008 that the wildcat would not be "gone within a week" as several commentators so confidently explained. Indeed, it appears to be gaining momentum.

The second reason is practical. The colleges the NFL drafts from are producing these kinds of multi-skilled players, and NFL teams ought to be able to employ some of them in these schemes without having to risk their $48 million quarterbacks as the bait. E.g., Pat White. That's why this concept has potential for growth, and NFL coaches seem to embrace it now. (How bizarre though that they seem to be embracing this one rather specific branch off what is a much wider and older tree of single-wing/spread/option football. Maybe its apparent newness allows them plausible deniability about having ignored what has been put to good use for decades.)

I will have a future post delineating how I think the wildcat will be used and expanded upon this fall. Unfortunately, I don't see the storyline being quite so rosy as the NFL finally breaking down and going all out with Eric Crouch types at quarterback. I can safely predict that some of the teams that are discussing their wildcat will be completely inept with it: they will do things like going five-wide with their quarterback split out, their runningback or wideout alone in the backfield, call for no motion or faking, and then expect him to plunge into the line for some kind of great effect. That team, its coaches and its fans, will declare the Wildcat a bust. Some other team, maybe the Dolphins again, will expand the package and see success with it. But then what? The worst case -- though possibly the most likely -- will be this:

The offense will fade from prominence, and will be relegated to NFL Films productions about the "WACKY WILDCAT" days of yore, where they will show somebody running free downfield while they speed up the footage and play Benny Hill music. Then they will show a clip of someone stuffing a particular play, and the voice-over will announce that the Wildcat, like all other gimmicks, was figured out and defeated. The NFL types will nevertheless congratulate themselves for having discovered it in the first place. Someone will be called on air to talk about how it was a travesty of the game, in some bizarre platonic ideal sense.

But there is a slight counter narrative. One is that the wildcat, as some kind of hype-machine and maybe even explicit look will die down, but the concepts will infiltrate the NFL and it will finally, and slowly, co-opt ideas that have been successful in every level of football elsewhere. Some will still deride the flashes as gimmicky, but seeing as that most didn't understand it to begin with, most probably won't even notice. Take a look at the clip below: the Ravens, using Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith ran the zone-read, and the highlight guys began a small war on what to call it. (Smith also takes a rather bizarre inside angle with his run.)

Time will tell where all this goes. For now, however, I expect the NFL Offense to remain as indicated, with just a flew flashes of the wildcat and other similar elements. But maybe with more, and cheaper, players who can execute these schemes the NFL will be forced to adapt them to its own ends. And maybe that will even help protect its quarterbacks.

Man, Tebow can't hold Pryor's jock.......when it's time to play for the $$$ on Sundays, this will become evident for all to see...

And yeah, he will steal his nickname as well, "The Chosen One"......Tebow is college (Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier), Pryor is pro (Don McNabb and Tom Brady)

You're probably right. I mean, what does Jon Gruden know, anyway? I know that Pryor led the Big 11 in passer efficiency last year with a rating of 140, which is very impressive. Tebow's rating of 202 as a freshman, or his ratings of 172 in the two years since are definitely far inferior and on the order of what you would expect from Eric Crouch or Tommie Frazier. I know that Tebow had the highest passer rating of any Heisman winner in history, but I'm sure that Eric Crouch ranked 2nd on that list. Also, being the strongest human being in the history of football to play QB doesn't really mean all that much for Tebow, since strength is a measurable that has repeatedly been proven meaningless at the NFL level, where speed is all that matters.After passing for 1300 yards last year (and 1700 yards in each of his last two seasons in High School), Pryor has clearly demonstrated himself capable of passing at an NFL level, especially with that 60% college completion%. Tebow's 66% career college comp% against the best defenses in the nation clearly show that he's got a lot of work to do in the passing game. The fact that he's only topped 2700 yards twice in the past two years doesn't bode well for his chances as a passer at the NFL level. Neither does the fact that he holds the Florida state record for high school passing yardage, since Florida is known for the low quality of the high school players produced compared to national levels.

 

[kremenull]

More from Smart Football on the wildcat:

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/search?q...+NFL+offense%22

This is where the wildcat stuff becomes intriguing. The theme for this offseason seems to be that every team is studying the wildcat or looking to install it. There's strategic reasons for this and there's practical ones.

The strategic reason is that the arithmetic doesn't lie: When you run the ball and your quarterback stands there just watching the play, his defensive counterpart can assault the runner. And even if his counterpart holds back, the runner's counterpart remains unblocked; you win games by getting the defense to commit two players to one of yours and thus gain an advantage. The wildcat -- as with the triple option or shotgun spread offense where the quarterback is a run threat -- does this. That's why I predicted back in September 2008 that the wildcat would not be "gone within a week" as several commentators so confidently explained. Indeed, it appears to be gaining momentum.

The second reason is practical. The colleges the NFL drafts from are producing these kinds of multi-skilled players, and NFL teams ought to be able to employ some of them in these schemes without having to risk their $48 million quarterbacks as the bait. E.g., Pat White. That's why this concept has potential for growth, and NFL coaches seem to embrace it now. (How bizarre though that they seem to be embracing this one rather specific branch off what is a much wider and older tree of single-wing/spread/option football. Maybe its apparent newness allows them plausible deniability about having ignored what has been put to good use for decades.)

I will have a future post delineating how I think the wildcat will be used and expanded upon this fall. Unfortunately, I don't see the storyline being quite so rosy as the NFL finally breaking down and going all out with Eric Crouch types at quarterback. I can safely predict that some of the teams that are discussing their wildcat will be completely inept with it: they will do things like going five-wide with their quarterback split out, their runningback or wideout alone in the backfield, call for no motion or faking, and then expect him to plunge into the line for some kind of great effect. That team, its coaches and its fans, will declare the Wildcat a bust. Some other team, maybe the Dolphins again, will expand the package and see success with it. But then what? The worst case -- though possibly the most likely -- will be this:

The offense will fade from prominence, and will be relegated to NFL Films productions about the "WACKY WILDCAT" days of yore, where they will show somebody running free downfield while they speed up the footage and play Benny Hill music. Then they will show a clip of someone stuffing a particular play, and the voice-over will announce that the Wildcat, like all other gimmicks, was figured out and defeated. The NFL types will nevertheless congratulate themselves for having discovered it in the first place. Someone will be called on air to talk about how it was a travesty of the game, in some bizarre platonic ideal sense.

But there is a slight counter narrative. One is that the wildcat, as some kind of hype-machine and maybe even explicit look will die down, but the concepts will infiltrate the NFL and it will finally, and slowly, co-opt ideas that have been successful in every level of football elsewhere. Some will still deride the flashes as gimmicky, but seeing as that most didn't understand it to begin with, most probably won't even notice. Take a look at the clip below: the Ravens, using Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith ran the zone-read, and the highlight guys began a small war on what to call it. (Smith also takes a rather bizarre inside angle with his run.)

Time will tell where all this goes. For now, however, I expect the NFL Offense to remain as indicated, with just a flew flashes of the wildcat and other similar elements. But maybe with more, and cheaper, players who can execute these schemes the NFL will be forced to adapt them to its own ends. And maybe that will even help protect its quarterbacks.

Man, Tebow can't hold Pryor's jock.......when it's time to play for the $$$ on Sundays, this will become evident for all to see...

And yeah, he will steal his nickname as well, "The Chosen One"......Tebow is college (Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier), Pryor is pro (Don McNabb and Tom Brady)

You're probably right. I mean, what does Jon Gruden know, anyway? I know that Pryor led the Big 11 in passer efficiency last year with a rating of 140, which is very impressive. Tebow's rating of 202 as a freshman, or his ratings of 172 in the two years since are definitely far inferior and on the order of what you would expect from Eric Crouch or Tommie Frazier. I know that Tebow had the highest passer rating of any Heisman winner in history, but I'm sure that Eric Crouch ranked 2nd on that list. Also, being the strongest human being in the history of football to play QB doesn't really mean all that much for Tebow, since strength is a measurable that has repeatedly been proven meaningless at the NFL level, where speed is all that matters.After passing for 1300 yards last year (and 1700 yards in each of his last two seasons in High School), Pryor has clearly demonstrated himself capable of passing at an NFL level, especially with that 60% college completion%. Tebow's 66% career college comp% against the best defenses in the nation clearly show that he's got a lot of work to do in the passing game. The fact that he's only topped 2700 yards twice in the past two years doesn't bode well for his chances as a passer at the NFL level. Neither does the fact that he holds the Florida state record for high school passing yardage, since Florida is known for the low quality of the high school players produced compared to national levels.

Well, alright!!!!So now are we ready to put your evaluation to the test here? And you're willing to go the distance with this assessment that Tebow aka "Captain America" aka "Just Say No to S*x" will be better in the long haul than Terrelle Pryor?

Let's mark this one down, for the record.......

I guess if Pryor would have come into Urban Meyer's collegiate-only system littered with ultra-dynamic playmakers all around him, from All-American TEs to the shiftiest, speediest WRs around.....and I haven't even mentioned Percy Harvin, yeah, remember him, the guy that defenses truly plan for (that's right, it wasn't Tebow and his 2-yd TD runs that they were afraid of).

So there it is there, in one corner you have Tebow and his 4.8+ forty, horrid mechanics, and inaccurate arm (completion % isn't the truest measure of accuracy, ball placement is....you can have that one for free)...

While in the other corner you have "THE Chosen One", Terrelle Pryor, running circles around "Te-Slow", rifle arm cocked and loaded delivering lasers in tight windows....

So what are we on for here? I don't think bragging rights will suffice on this one.......I'm in Cali. What state do you reside in?

 

[puckalicious]

I think SSOG has made a very good point about the wildcat and I stole what he said and bolded it here to have a discussion about it.

This is all in regards to the Wild Cat formation and someone saying that it is just something that is a flash in the pan and will be gone soon as defenses now know it is coming and teams will stop using it. This was SSOG's response. What do you guys think?

Alright, let's think about it.

Let's say I've thought about it, and decided that a running play is the best option in a given situation. If I draw up a traditional running play, there will be 1 guy carrying the ball, 1 guy taking the snap and handing the ball off, and 9 guys blocking. The defense will have 11 tacklers, so tacklers will outnumber defenders 11 to 9. Now, if I draw up a Wildcat running play, I have 1 guy taking the snap and carrying the ball, and 10 guys blocking. The defense's personnel advantage is reduced to an 11 on 10. That seems like a sound reason to take my best QB out and let an RB take the snaps to me. In order to get the equivalent effect while leaving my best QB on the field, I'd have to trot 12 men on offense. Would you say that having what amounts to an extra offensive player on the field is a sound reason to run a play?

Think about it.

How many QB's are accomplished blockers? I don't see much advantage, since a QB spread out trying to make a block will have a HUGE bullseye on him for somebody like Ray Lewis to make him miss the rest of the season. As for the OP's question, I don't think the Wild Cat will be a flash in the pan, but it will just be another gadget play or formation used in certain situations.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Don't take my word for it, though. I think we'd all agree that Jon Gruden has probably forgotten more about offense than we'll ever know. Gruden has said that he thinks Tebow will revolutionize the NFL because he's a "wildcat who can throw"- meaning Gruden thinks the wildcat is a viable NFL offense. Belichick is also reportedly very high on Tebow, which either means that Belichick thinks that Tebow is an elite pocket passer, or it means that he thinks the "QB as a ballcarrier" thing has some chance of working in the NFL

Man, Tebow can't hold Pryor's jock.......when it's time to play for the $$$ on Sundays, this will become evident for all to see...And yeah, he will steal his nickname as well, "The Chosen One"......Tebow is college (Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier), Pryor is pro (Don McNabb and Tom Brady)

Pryor has 12 career TD passes (7 of them against Troy and NW). And you're convinced he's the next pro star, already? How do you know he's D. McNabb and not V. Young?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

LOL at Pryor being "The Chosen One". He may develop into something, but he's a lot more Vince Young right now than Donovan McNabb.

 

[gianmarco]

More from Smart Football on the wildcat:

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/search?q...+NFL+offense%22

This is where the wildcat stuff becomes intriguing. The theme for this offseason seems to be that every team is studying the wildcat or looking to install it. There's strategic reasons for this and there's practical ones.

The strategic reason is that the arithmetic doesn't lie: When you run the ball and your quarterback stands there just watching the play, his defensive counterpart can assault the runner. And even if his counterpart holds back, the runner's counterpart remains unblocked; you win games by getting the defense to commit two players to one of yours and thus gain an advantage. The wildcat -- as with the triple option or shotgun spread offense where the quarterback is a run threat -- does this. That's why I predicted back in September 2008 that the wildcat would not be "gone within a week" as several commentators so confidently explained. Indeed, it appears to be gaining momentum.

The second reason is practical. The colleges the NFL drafts from are producing these kinds of multi-skilled players, and NFL teams ought to be able to employ some of them in these schemes without having to risk their $48 million quarterbacks as the bait. E.g., Pat White. That's why this concept has potential for growth, and NFL coaches seem to embrace it now. (How bizarre though that they seem to be embracing this one rather specific branch off what is a much wider and older tree of single-wing/spread/option football. Maybe its apparent newness allows them plausible deniability about having ignored what has been put to good use for decades.)

I will have a future post delineating how I think the wildcat will be used and expanded upon this fall. Unfortunately, I don't see the storyline being quite so rosy as the NFL finally breaking down and going all out with Eric Crouch types at quarterback. I can safely predict that some of the teams that are discussing their wildcat will be completely inept with it: they will do things like going five-wide with their quarterback split out, their runningback or wideout alone in the backfield, call for no motion or faking, and then expect him to plunge into the line for some kind of great effect. That team, its coaches and its fans, will declare the Wildcat a bust. Some other team, maybe the Dolphins again, will expand the package and see success with it. But then what? The worst case -- though possibly the most likely -- will be this:

The offense will fade from prominence, and will be relegated to NFL Films productions about the "WACKY WILDCAT" days of yore, where they will show somebody running free downfield while they speed up the footage and play Benny Hill music. Then they will show a clip of someone stuffing a particular play, and the voice-over will announce that the Wildcat, like all other gimmicks, was figured out and defeated. The NFL types will nevertheless congratulate themselves for having discovered it in the first place. Someone will be called on air to talk about how it was a travesty of the game, in some bizarre platonic ideal sense.

But there is a slight counter narrative. One is that the wildcat, as some kind of hype-machine and maybe even explicit look will die down, but the concepts will infiltrate the NFL and it will finally, and slowly, co-opt ideas that have been successful in every level of football elsewhere. Some will still deride the flashes as gimmicky, but seeing as that most didn't understand it to begin with, most probably won't even notice. Take a look at the clip below: the Ravens, using Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith ran the zone-read, and the highlight guys began a small war on what to call it. (Smith also takes a rather bizarre inside angle with his run.)

Time will tell where all this goes. For now, however, I expect the NFL Offense to remain as indicated, with just a flew flashes of the wildcat and other similar elements. But maybe with more, and cheaper, players who can execute these schemes the NFL will be forced to adapt them to its own ends. And maybe that will even help protect its quarterbacks.

Man, Tebow can't hold Pryor's jock.......when it's time to play for the $$$ on Sundays, this will become evident for all to see...

And yeah, he will steal his nickname as well, "The Chosen One"......Tebow is college (Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier), Pryor is pro (Don McNabb and Tom Brady)

You're probably right. I mean, what does Jon Gruden know, anyway? I know that Pryor led the Big 11 in passer efficiency last year with a rating of 140, which is very impressive. Tebow's rating of 202 as a freshman, or his ratings of 172 in the two years since are definitely far inferior and on the order of what you would expect from Eric Crouch or Tommie Frazier. I know that Tebow had the highest passer rating of any Heisman winner in history, but I'm sure that Eric Crouch ranked 2nd on that list. Also, being the strongest human being in the history of football to play QB doesn't really mean all that much for Tebow, since strength is a measurable that has repeatedly been proven meaningless at the NFL level, where speed is all that matters.After passing for 1300 yards last year (and 1700 yards in each of his last two seasons in High School), Pryor has clearly demonstrated himself capable of passing at an NFL level, especially with that 60% college completion%. Tebow's 66% career college comp% against the best defenses in the nation clearly show that he's got a lot of work to do in the passing game. The fact that he's only topped 2700 yards twice in the past two years doesn't bode well for his chances as a passer at the NFL level. Neither does the fact that he holds the Florida state record for high school passing yardage, since Florida is known for the low quality of the high school players produced compared to national levels.

Well, alright!!!!So now are we ready to put your evaluation to the test here? And you're willing to go the distance with this assessment that Tebow aka "Captain America" aka "Just Say No to S*x" will be better in the long haul than Terrelle Pryor?

Let's mark this one down, for the record.......

I guess if Pryor would have come into Urban Meyer's collegiate-only system littered with ultra-dynamic playmakers all around him, from All-American TEs to the shiftiest, speediest WRs around.....and I haven't even mentioned Percy Harvin, yeah, remember him, the guy that defenses truly plan for (that's right, it wasn't Tebow and his 2-yd TD runs that they were afraid of).

So there it is there, in one corner you have Tebow and his 4.8+ forty, horrid mechanics, and inaccurate arm (completion % isn't the truest measure of accuracy, ball placement is....you can have that one for free)...

While in the other corner you have "THE Chosen One", Terrelle Pryor, running circles around "Te-Slow", rifle arm cocked and loaded delivering lasers in tight windows....

So what are we on for here? I don't think bragging rights will suffice on this one.......I'm in Cali. What state do you reside in?

Just a question. Why is everything absolutes with you? Why is everything a "competition" and about putting "bold predictions down" and "marking it down for the record"? It seems almost every post you put down now is about you being right and knowing who the elite talent is and everyone else who doesn't agree not knowing anything and that they don't know talent when they see it. You know, it's possible to state opinions here and be high on players without the need to turn it into a ****fight.The shtick is old. We get it. You know everything. You have a keen eye for NFL talent and who will be the next big thing. You dominate EVERY league you're in. You're trying to share your vast knowledge with the rest of the Shark Pool free of charge.

Have a nice season.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

More from Smart Football on the wildcat:

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/search?q...+NFL+offense%22

This is where the wildcat stuff becomes intriguing. The theme for this offseason seems to be that every team is studying the wildcat or looking to install it. There's strategic reasons for this and there's practical ones.

The strategic reason is that the arithmetic doesn't lie: When you run the ball and your quarterback stands there just watching the play, his defensive counterpart can assault the runner. And even if his counterpart holds back, the runner's counterpart remains unblocked; you win games by getting the defense to commit two players to one of yours and thus gain an advantage. The wildcat -- as with the triple option or shotgun spread offense where the quarterback is a run threat -- does this. That's why I predicted back in September 2008 that the wildcat would not be "gone within a week" as several commentators so confidently explained. Indeed, it appears to be gaining momentum.

The second reason is practical. The colleges the NFL drafts from are producing these kinds of multi-skilled players, and NFL teams ought to be able to employ some of them in these schemes without having to risk their $48 million quarterbacks as the bait. E.g., Pat White. That's why this concept has potential for growth, and NFL coaches seem to embrace it now. (How bizarre though that they seem to be embracing this one rather specific branch off what is a much wider and older tree of single-wing/spread/option football. Maybe its apparent newness allows them plausible deniability about having ignored what has been put to good use for decades.)

I will have a future post delineating how I think the wildcat will be used and expanded upon this fall. Unfortunately, I don't see the storyline being quite so rosy as the NFL finally breaking down and going all out with Eric Crouch types at quarterback. I can safely predict that some of the teams that are discussing their wildcat will be completely inept with it: they will do things like going five-wide with their quarterback split out, their runningback or wideout alone in the backfield, call for no motion or faking, and then expect him to plunge into the line for some kind of great effect. That team, its coaches and its fans, will declare the Wildcat a bust. Some other team, maybe the Dolphins again, will expand the package and see success with it. But then what? The worst case -- though possibly the most likely -- will be this:

The offense will fade from prominence, and will be relegated to NFL Films productions about the "WACKY WILDCAT" days of yore, where they will show somebody running free downfield while they speed up the footage and play Benny Hill music. Then they will show a clip of someone stuffing a particular play, and the voice-over will announce that the Wildcat, like all other gimmicks, was figured out and defeated. The NFL types will nevertheless congratulate themselves for having discovered it in the first place. Someone will be called on air to talk about how it was a travesty of the game, in some bizarre platonic ideal sense.

But there is a slight counter narrative. One is that the wildcat, as some kind of hype-machine and maybe even explicit look will die down, but the concepts will infiltrate the NFL and it will finally, and slowly, co-opt ideas that have been successful in every level of football elsewhere. Some will still deride the flashes as gimmicky, but seeing as that most didn't understand it to begin with, most probably won't even notice. Take a look at the clip below: the Ravens, using Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith ran the zone-read, and the highlight guys began a small war on what to call it. (Smith also takes a rather bizarre inside angle with his run.)

Time will tell where all this goes. For now, however, I expect the NFL Offense to remain as indicated, with just a flew flashes of the wildcat and other similar elements. But maybe with more, and cheaper, players who can execute these schemes the NFL will be forced to adapt them to its own ends. And maybe that will even help protect its quarterbacks.

Man, Tebow can't hold Pryor's jock.......when it's time to play for the $$$ on Sundays, this will become evident for all to see...

And yeah, he will steal his nickname as well, "The Chosen One"......Tebow is college (Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier), Pryor is pro (Don McNabb and Tom Brady)

You're probably right. I mean, what does Jon Gruden know, anyway? I know that Pryor led the Big 11 in passer efficiency last year with a rating of 140, which is very impressive. Tebow's rating of 202 as a freshman, or his ratings of 172 in the two years since are definitely far inferior and on the order of what you would expect from Eric Crouch or Tommie Frazier. I know that Tebow had the highest passer rating of any Heisman winner in history, but I'm sure that Eric Crouch ranked 2nd on that list. Also, being the strongest human being in the history of football to play QB doesn't really mean all that much for Tebow, since strength is a measurable that has repeatedly been proven meaningless at the NFL level, where speed is all that matters.After passing for 1300 yards last year (and 1700 yards in each of his last two seasons in High School), Pryor has clearly demonstrated himself capable of passing at an NFL level, especially with that 60% college completion%. Tebow's 66% career college comp% against the best defenses in the nation clearly show that he's got a lot of work to do in the passing game. The fact that he's only topped 2700 yards twice in the past two years doesn't bode well for his chances as a passer at the NFL level. Neither does the fact that he holds the Florida state record for high school passing yardage, since Florida is known for the low quality of the high school players produced compared to national levels.

Well, alright!!!!So now are we ready to put your evaluation to the test here? And you're willing to go the distance with this assessment that Tebow aka "Captain America" aka "Just Say No to S*x" will be better in the long haul than Terrelle Pryor?

Let's mark this one down, for the record.......

I guess if Pryor would have come into Urban Meyer's collegiate-only system littered with ultra-dynamic playmakers all around him, from All-American TEs to the shiftiest, speediest WRs around.....and I haven't even mentioned Percy Harvin, yeah, remember him, the guy that defenses truly plan for (that's right, it wasn't Tebow and his 2-yd TD runs that they were afraid of).

So there it is there, in one corner you have Tebow and his 4.8+ forty, horrid mechanics, and inaccurate arm (completion % isn't the truest measure of accuracy, ball placement is....you can have that one for free)...

While in the other corner you have "THE Chosen One", Terrelle Pryor, running circles around "Te-Slow", rifle arm cocked and loaded delivering lasers in tight windows....

So what are we on for here? I don't think bragging rights will suffice on this one.......I'm in Cali. What state do you reside in?

Just a question. Why is everything absolutes with you? Why is everything a "competition" and about putting "bold predictions down" and "marking it down for the record"? It seems almost every post you put down now is about you being right and knowing who the elite talent is and everyone else who doesn't agree not knowing anything and that they don't know talent when they see it. You know, it's possible to state opinions here and be high on players without the need to turn it into a ****fight.The shtick is old. We get it. You know everything. You have a keen eye for NFL talent and who will be the next big thing. You dominate EVERY league you're in. You're trying to share your vast knowledge with the rest of the Shark Pool free of charge.

Have a nice season.

Isn't there a guy like this on here every season?

 

[baconisgood]

I think the wildcat will fizzle out pretty quickly once teams practice defending it, stop it more than they did last year, and a starting QB playing WR gets popped and misses a month of the season.

You really think this is likely? How many wide receivers miss a month of the season after being injured blocking on a running play? Average WR is what, 6' 195? Average QB in the 6'2, 6'3 225 range? QBs get hit dozens of times a year by 250 lb linebackers and 300 lb lineman and you think getting shoved at the line of scrimmage by a 5'10 185 lb CB who has specialized in pass coverage, not hitting, is going to knock them out of the game? NFL QBs are big, strong and tough. Unless CBs are intentionally taking cheap shots at their knees they aren't any more likely to miss extended time than your average WR blocking on the outside on a running play.

 

[Knobs]

I don't think it's something that could be done with just any qb (Mannings, Brees, Brady, couldn't execute it), but simply because there aren't many guys I can think of doesn't mean there aren't guys that can pull it off quite well.

I think Vick would have been the perfect player to do this with.

 

[ookook]

I think the value of running a wildcat formation depends on how good the QB is that your are taking out of his pocket position. If he is mediocre (say like Pennington), there is not as much lost. But if he is a great passer, a lot is lost because great passers can pick apart defenses from the pocket and make good receivers great.

It may also depend on how well the OLine can protect a pocket passer. If not much well, than wildcat looks better.

But I would not be in favor of taking a guy like Brees out of his normal position to replace him with Vick for anything more than the rare gadget play. Not part of the regular offense.

 

[BR33ZE]

WTF is SSOG?

 

[JAA]

The 'Wildcat' is a Spread (belly) option read. Lots and lots of potential plays from the formation.

 

[Jackal King]

I do think that the NFL offense's are on the cusp of taking an evolutionary step forward similar to the emergence of the west coast offense after it was used by Walsh to dominate the 80's. As soon as a team becomes effective (wins consistently) with the wildcat, it will really take off. Already, most teams have attempted to add some element of it to the playbook.

I'm not sure that the offensive / defensive numbers are that important. More important are the skills of those that handle the ball. It's pretty simple in that if the ball handler can run / pass with equal skill...then a much more versatile offense will excerpt a lot of pressure on defenses.

 

[kremenull]

More from Smart Football on the wildcat:

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/search?q...+NFL+offense%22

This is where the wildcat stuff becomes intriguing. The theme for this offseason seems to be that every team is studying the wildcat or looking to install it. There's strategic reasons for this and there's practical ones.

The strategic reason is that the arithmetic doesn't lie: When you run the ball and your quarterback stands there just watching the play, his defensive counterpart can assault the runner. And even if his counterpart holds back, the runner's counterpart remains unblocked; you win games by getting the defense to commit two players to one of yours and thus gain an advantage. The wildcat -- as with the triple option or shotgun spread offense where the quarterback is a run threat -- does this. That's why I predicted back in September 2008 that the wildcat would not be "gone within a week" as several commentators so confidently explained. Indeed, it appears to be gaining momentum.

The second reason is practical. The colleges the NFL drafts from are producing these kinds of multi-skilled players, and NFL teams ought to be able to employ some of them in these schemes without having to risk their $48 million quarterbacks as the bait. E.g., Pat White. That's why this concept has potential for growth, and NFL coaches seem to embrace it now. (How bizarre though that they seem to be embracing this one rather specific branch off what is a much wider and older tree of single-wing/spread/option football. Maybe its apparent newness allows them plausible deniability about having ignored what has been put to good use for decades.)

I will have a future post delineating how I think the wildcat will be used and expanded upon this fall. Unfortunately, I don't see the storyline being quite so rosy as the NFL finally breaking down and going all out with Eric Crouch types at quarterback. I can safely predict that some of the teams that are discussing their wildcat will be completely inept with it: they will do things like going five-wide with their quarterback split out, their runningback or wideout alone in the backfield, call for no motion or faking, and then expect him to plunge into the line for some kind of great effect. That team, its coaches and its fans, will declare the Wildcat a bust. Some other team, maybe the Dolphins again, will expand the package and see success with it. But then what? The worst case -- though possibly the most likely -- will be this:

The offense will fade from prominence, and will be relegated to NFL Films productions about the "WACKY WILDCAT" days of yore, where they will show somebody running free downfield while they speed up the footage and play Benny Hill music. Then they will show a clip of someone stuffing a particular play, and the voice-over will announce that the Wildcat, like all other gimmicks, was figured out and defeated. The NFL types will nevertheless congratulate themselves for having discovered it in the first place. Someone will be called on air to talk about how it was a travesty of the game, in some bizarre platonic ideal sense.

But there is a slight counter narrative. One is that the wildcat, as some kind of hype-machine and maybe even explicit look will die down, but the concepts will infiltrate the NFL and it will finally, and slowly, co-opt ideas that have been successful in every level of football elsewhere. Some will still deride the flashes as gimmicky, but seeing as that most didn't understand it to begin with, most probably won't even notice. Take a look at the clip below: the Ravens, using Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith ran the zone-read, and the highlight guys began a small war on what to call it. (Smith also takes a rather bizarre inside angle with his run.)

Time will tell where all this goes. For now, however, I expect the NFL Offense to remain as indicated, with just a flew flashes of the wildcat and other similar elements. But maybe with more, and cheaper, players who can execute these schemes the NFL will be forced to adapt them to its own ends. And maybe that will even help protect its quarterbacks.

Man, Tebow can't hold Pryor's jock.......when it's time to play for the $$$ on Sundays, this will become evident for all to see...

And yeah, he will steal his nickname as well, "The Chosen One"......Tebow is college (Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier), Pryor is pro (Don McNabb and Tom Brady)

You're probably right. I mean, what does Jon Gruden know, anyway? I know that Pryor led the Big 11 in passer efficiency last year with a rating of 140, which is very impressive. Tebow's rating of 202 as a freshman, or his ratings of 172 in the two years since are definitely far inferior and on the order of what you would expect from Eric Crouch or Tommie Frazier. I know that Tebow had the highest passer rating of any Heisman winner in history, but I'm sure that Eric Crouch ranked 2nd on that list. Also, being the strongest human being in the history of football to play QB doesn't really mean all that much for Tebow, since strength is a measurable that has repeatedly been proven meaningless at the NFL level, where speed is all that matters.After passing for 1300 yards last year (and 1700 yards in each of his last two seasons in High School), Pryor has clearly demonstrated himself capable of passing at an NFL level, especially with that 60% college completion%. Tebow's 66% career college comp% against the best defenses in the nation clearly show that he's got a lot of work to do in the passing game. The fact that he's only topped 2700 yards twice in the past two years doesn't bode well for his chances as a passer at the NFL level. Neither does the fact that he holds the Florida state record for high school passing yardage, since Florida is known for the low quality of the high school players produced compared to national levels.

Well, alright!!!!So now are we ready to put your evaluation to the test here? And you're willing to go the distance with this assessment that Tebow aka "Captain America" aka "Just Say No to S*x" will be better in the long haul than Terrelle Pryor?

Let's mark this one down, for the record.......

I guess if Pryor would have come into Urban Meyer's collegiate-only system littered with ultra-dynamic playmakers all around him, from All-American TEs to the shiftiest, speediest WRs around.....and I haven't even mentioned Percy Harvin, yeah, remember him, the guy that defenses truly plan for (that's right, it wasn't Tebow and his 2-yd TD runs that they were afraid of).

So there it is there, in one corner you have Tebow and his 4.8+ forty, horrid mechanics, and inaccurate arm (completion % isn't the truest measure of accuracy, ball placement is....you can have that one for free)...

While in the other corner you have "THE Chosen One", Terrelle Pryor, running circles around "Te-Slow", rifle arm cocked and loaded delivering lasers in tight windows....

So what are we on for here? I don't think bragging rights will suffice on this one.......I'm in Cali. What state do you reside in?

Just a question. Why is everything absolutes with you? Why is everything a "competition" and about putting "bold predictions down" and "marking it down for the record"? It seems almost every post you put down now is about you being right and knowing who the elite talent is and everyone else who doesn't agree not knowing anything and that they don't know talent when they see it. You know, it's possible to state opinions here and be high on players without the need to turn it into a ****fight.The shtick is old. We get it. You know everything. You have a keen eye for NFL talent and who will be the next big thing. You dominate EVERY league you're in. You're trying to share your vast knowledge with the rest of the Shark Pool free of charge.

Have a nice season.

First off, try not to worry about what I do, worry about what you do. Regarding your statement above, if/when you (or could be anybody) counter my posts in an attempt to dismiss my opinions, then you will more than likely get it back 10x. Now if you or anybody else wants to put forth your own opinion(s) in response to my posts without attempting to disparage or dismiss my position, then you'll get likewise.

And yeah, I might be on a little bit of a rampage lately, but it has nothing to do with anyone disagreeing with my position(s). I could care less about that, but like I said, once you (not you personally, just in general) attempt to disparage/dismiss like you have all the credibility, then I'm going to put you to the test then since you opened that door. Because I speak of being accountable for what you say when I say "mark it down for the record", you get uncomfortable and don't like that? Again, don't ever take this stuff personal (I never do), but don't run from your track record.

Anyway, so "for the record" I don't recall you being involved in the "challenge" that I proposed here to SSOG. So if you feel that the "schtick", as you call it, is old, then please ignore me and don't bother replying to my posts since it bothers you so much. But you obviously must think something must be interesting about my "bold statements" and all, because frankly, nothing I ever post do I consider bold. Yeah, you can keep following me around if you like, I'll be right here.

 

[BR33ZE]

WTF is SSOG?

 

[daveR]

I think SSOG has made a very good point about the wildcat and I stole what he said and bolded it here to have a discussion about it.

This is all in regards to the Wild Cat formation and someone saying that it is just something that is a flash in the pan and will be gone soon as defenses now know it is coming and teams will stop using it. This was SSOG's response. What do you guys think?

Alright, let's think about it.

Let's say I've thought about it, and decided that a running play is the best option in a given situation. If I draw up a traditional running play, there will be 1 guy carrying the ball, 1 guy taking the snap and handing the ball off, and 9 guys blocking. The defense will have 11 tacklers, so tacklers will outnumber defenders 11 to 9. Now, if I draw up a Wildcat running play, I have 1 guy taking the snap and carrying the ball, and 10 guys blocking. The defense's personnel advantage is reduced to an 11 on 10. That seems like a sound reason to take my best QB out and let an RB take the snaps to me. In order to get the equivalent effect while leaving my best QB on the field, I'd have to trot 12 men on offense. Would you say that having what amounts to an extra offensive player on the field is a sound reason to run a play?

Think about it.

Okay.Your point is similar to my thinking. To wit... The formation HAD the advantage of the defense playing schemes wherein the qb was left unaccounted for in the running game. They would send four guys upfield to rush the passer, but the RBs would typically be the responsibility of the LBs. If the QB ran the ball, he would be chased down by a quicker defender.

Against a team with a running QB such as Michael Vick, the defenses would "spy" him. That is, a LB or S would have an additional responsibility of keeping an eye on him. Until Miami ran the wildcat, there was no reason to prepare a spy because Pennington wasn't going anywhere. From now on, defenses will prepare for the wildcat every week because every team will have a wilcat option on offense.

So... I still say, "Flash in the pan".

 

[baconisgood]

Against a team with a running QB such as Michael Vick, the defenses would "spy" him. That is, a LB or S would have an additional responsibility of keeping an eye on him. Until Miami ran the wildcat, there was no reason to prepare a spy because Pennington wasn't going anywhere. From now on, defenses will prepare for the wildcat every week because every team will have a wilcat option on offense

Even with defenses spying Vick he still averaged 7.3 y/c for his career and his last year was at 8.4. The spy did very little to limit Vick's ability as a runner.

 

[daveR]

Against a team with a running QB such as Michael Vick, the defenses would "spy" him. That is, a LB or S would have an additional responsibility of keeping an eye on him. Until Miami ran the wildcat, there was no reason to prepare a spy because Pennington wasn't going anywhere. From now on, defenses will prepare for the wildcat every week because every team will have a wilcat option on offense

Even with defenses spying Vick he still averaged 7.3 y/c for his career and his last year was at 8.4. The spy did very little to limit Vick's ability as a runner.

Apples and oranges, I think. Vick wasn't a runner. He gained his yardage scrambling from the pocket, not as an option qb.

 

[Gr00vus]

Seems like as others have said, you overplay the run and take your chances with the qb or rb throwing on the run. I don't remember people losing tons of games daring Vick to beat them with his arm - I don't think people be shy about doing the same with Ronnie Brown.

 

[Two Deep]

Not sure why I am signature worthy, but . . .

While the offense gets one more player to block with, the defense also would get a huge advantage in knowing the play will not be a pass.

I think the wildcat will fizzle out pretty quickly once teams practice defending it, stop it more than they did last year, and a starting QB playing WR gets popped and misses a month of the season. From the times I say the wildcat, the regular QB stayed in the game to add at least a threat of a pass and some chance of razzle dazzle.

Huh? Why does the defense know it will not be a pass? Pat White? Mike Vick? McFadden? Dixon? Ronnie Brown even? These guys have thrown passes, correct?Most people are under the impression that they've seen everything the Wildcat can do just by watching what the Dolphins did last year. That was only scratching the surface of this formation. It really will be interesting when teams take out the weak link of the pkg (e.g., Pennington) and put stellar athletes in the skill positions of the pkg.

Half of those guys can't hit the WR when he is uncovered, none would warrant anything but single coverage on the WR's. I'd send all the other available defenders straight in the backfield. It will last about as long as the run and shoot did.

 

[Instinctive]

WTF is SSOG?

It is the name of a person who posts here.....if you read the thread you'll see that...need I say "duh?"

 

[BR33ZE]

WTF is SSOG?

It is the name of a person who posts here.....if you read the thread you'll see that...need I say "duh?"

No need to say "duh." Thanks for the clarification. Wasn't sure if this was a post from another site or not that we are disccusing. It's from a poster from this board who said something I guess that is "worthy" of its own "thread."Carry on...

 

[sholditch]

I think SSOG has made a very good point about the wildcat and I stole what he said and bolded it here to have a discussion about it.

This is all in regards to the Wild Cat formation and someone saying that it is just something that is a flash in the pan and will be gone soon as defenses now know it is coming and teams will stop using it. This was SSOG's response. What do you guys think?

Alright, let's think about it.

Let's say I've thought about it, and decided that a running play is the best option in a given situation. If I draw up a traditional running play, there will be 1 guy carrying the ball, 1 guy taking the snap and handing the ball off, and 9 guys blocking. The defense will have 11 tacklers, so tacklers will outnumber defenders 11 to 9. Now, if I draw up a Wildcat running play, I have 1 guy taking the snap and carrying the ball, and 10 guys blocking. The defense's personnel advantage is reduced to an 11 on 10. That seems like a sound reason to take my best QB out and let an RB take the snaps to me. In order to get the equivalent effect while leaving my best QB on the field, I'd have to trot 12 men on offense. Would you say that having what amounts to an extra offensive player on the field is a sound reason to run a play?

Think about it.

Wildcat is successful precisely because defenses don't know whether it's pass or run. Teams basically know what's coming but it's the threat of the pass that makes it work. In the most successful use of the Wildcat in the NFL ever, RB was taking snaps but still managed to get one in through the air. I don't think it's necessarily a flash in the pan. I think treating it like an automatic running play will cause people to really come after it. To me what makes the wildcat is successful is that it can break a run quicker than traditional I and shotgun formations because the ball is immediately in the playmakers hands, but also because of the reverse/misdirection plays that can come from it with no real notice.

Anyway, I think it's here to stay, but will remain a situational formation.

 

[TheWheel]

The Wildcat, obviously, may or may not be the future. It depends entirely on the talent pool of the future. Had a player like Michael Vick been available to be drafted this year, I could have seen a team devoted entirely to the Wildcat. In my mind, the more consistent the package becomes in playcalling, the more power it has. It is also a fallacy to think of it as a run-only offense. You need to think of it as an option. The Wildcat QB can begin to run, and if the run is covered can dump it off.

SSOG's initial point is only a simple look at it from a basic numbers point of view. If you look at the possibilities of a QB that has on the field control (a Wildcat option) then the pressure is turned up on the defense. Imagine the Vick-led Falcons with some passing accuracy and you have the optimal Wildcat offense. And if you add in an attacking QB who can both run and pass (and knows when to do both) there is really no stopping it.

Just wait until Jon Gruden returns. If he can convince a team to go all Wildcat and gets Tim Tebow, you will really see how it can work. The Wildcat may not spread now, but once the traditional QB's retire, Wildcats will take over.

 

[Ray_T]

Not sure why I am signature worthy, but . . .While the offense gets one more player to block with, the defense also would get a huge advantage in knowing the play will not be a pass.I think the wildcat will fizzle out pretty quickly once teams practice defending it, stop it more than they did last year, and a starting QB playing WR gets popped and misses a month of the season. From the times I say the wildcat, the regular QB stayed in the game to add at least a threat of a pass and some chance of razzle dazzle.

I agree. some teams in the CFL tried to run the wildcat this year, and it fizzled out after week 3. it would appear that most defenses had packages to defend it. (as compared to last year when NFL defenses were not ready for it)I acknowledge that the CFL is not the NFL, but football is football, and I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Pied Piper]

I think SSOG has made a very good point about the wildcat and I stole what he said and bolded it here to have a discussion about it.

This is all in regards to the Wild Cat formation and someone saying that it is just something that is a flash in the pan and will be gone soon as defenses now know it is coming and teams will stop using it. This was SSOG's response. What do you guys think?

Alright, let's think about it.

Let's say I've thought about it, and decided that a running play is the best option in a given situation. If I draw up a traditional running play, there will be 1 guy carrying the ball, 1 guy taking the snap and handing the ball off, and 9 guys blocking. The defense will have 11 tacklers, so tacklers will outnumber defenders 11 to 9. Now, if I draw up a Wildcat running play, I have 1 guy taking the snap and carrying the ball, and 10 guys blocking. The defense's personnel advantage is reduced to an 11 on 10. That seems like a sound reason to take my best QB out and let an RB take the snaps to me. In order to get the equivalent effect while leaving my best QB on the field, I'd have to trot 12 men on offense. Would you say that having what amounts to an extra offensive player on the field is a sound reason to run a play?

Think about it.

Wildcat is successful precisely because defenses don't know whether it's pass or run. Teams basically know what's coming but it's the threat of the pass that makes it work. In the most successful use of the Wildcat in the NFL ever, RB was taking snaps but still managed to get one in through the air. I don't think it's necessarily a flash in the pan. I think treating it like an automatic running play will cause people to really come after it. To me what makes the wildcat is successful is that it can break a run quicker than traditional I and shotgun formations because the ball is immediately in the playmakers hands, but also because of the reverse/misdirection plays that can come from it with no real notice.

Anyway, I think it's here to stay, but will remain a situational formation.

Exactly!

The offense will set the defense up for the wildcat 5-6 plays back, maybe more. It is elusive and definitely not a play you decide to use on a whim.

 

[JAA]

Not sure why I am signature worthy, but . . .

While the offense gets one more player to block with, the defense also would get a huge advantage in knowing the play will not be a pass.

I think the wildcat will fizzle out pretty quickly once teams practice defending it, stop it more than they did last year, and a starting QB playing WR gets popped and misses a month of the season. From the times I say the wildcat, the regular QB stayed in the game to add at least a threat of a pass and some chance of razzle dazzle.

Huh? Why does the defense know it will not be a pass? Pat White? Mike Vick? McFadden? Dixon? Ronnie Brown even? These guys have thrown passes, correct?Most people are under the impression that they've seen everything the Wildcat can do just by watching what the Dolphins did last year. That was only scratching the surface of this formation. It really will be interesting when teams take out the weak link of the pkg (e.g., Pennington) and put stellar athletes in the skill positions of the pkg.

Half of those guys can't hit the WR when he is uncovered, none would warrant anything but single coverage on the WR's. I'd send all the other available defenders straight in the backfield. It will last about as long as the run and shoot did.

Did you watch the QBs perform at the combine? Have you been reading any Mia training camp (or OTA) updates?

 

[JAA]

I think SSOG has made a very good point about the wildcat and I stole what he said and bolded it here to have a discussion about it.

This is all in regards to the Wild Cat formation and someone saying that it is just something that is a flash in the pan and will be gone soon as defenses now know it is coming and teams will stop using it. This was SSOG's response. What do you guys think?

Alright, let's think about it.

Let's say I've thought about it, and decided that a running play is the best option in a given situation. If I draw up a traditional running play, there will be 1 guy carrying the ball, 1 guy taking the snap and handing the ball off, and 9 guys blocking. The defense will have 11 tacklers, so tacklers will outnumber defenders 11 to 9. Now, if I draw up a Wildcat running play, I have 1 guy taking the snap and carrying the ball, and 10 guys blocking. The defense's personnel advantage is reduced to an 11 on 10. That seems like a sound reason to take my best QB out and let an RB take the snaps to me. In order to get the equivalent effect while leaving my best QB on the field, I'd have to trot 12 men on offense. Would you say that having what amounts to an extra offensive player on the field is a sound reason to run a play?

Think about it.

Wildcat is successful precisely because defenses don't know whether it's pass or run. Teams basically know what's coming but it's the threat of the pass that makes it work. In the most successful use of the Wildcat in the NFL ever, RB was taking snaps but still managed to get one in through the air. I don't think it's necessarily a flash in the pan. I think treating it like an automatic running play will cause people to really come after it. To me what makes the wildcat is successful is that it can break a run quicker than traditional I and shotgun formations because the ball is immediately in the playmakers hands, but also because of the reverse/misdirection plays that can come from it with no real notice.

Anyway, I think it's here to stay, but will remain a situational formation.

The reasons that the Spread Read Option is so successful is because it is a dymanic offense. With respect to a running play the QB will make a decision after the snap of the ball whether or not to hand it off or keep it. This means the RB (and O-Line) dont usually know where the play is going. A good example of the play (not the only one) is that the QB will decide to hand it off based on what the DE on his side does. When the ball is snapped, if the DE goes inside, the QB will keep the ball. If the DE goes outside, or even contain the line of scrimmage, the QB will hand it off inside. So even when you guys talk about 11 on 10 or 11 on 9, it isnt accurate. Lots of plays are designed to take out at least 1 defender from the equation. Making it 11 on 10 potentially.If you cant envision the play I described above, you can check out lots of Pat White WVU clips on you tube. That formation is often call the belly read option because the QB will somewhat tuck the ball in his stomach and it is difficult to see if he did or did not hand the ball to the RB. Also, this play is just the basic read play. There are numerous option outs that can produce 4 options on a single run, not counting reverses.

Finally, the most dynamic part of this offense is how a defense will try to counter-act what the offense is showing them. This can create many huge plays for the offense if the defensive set plays into what the offense is putting together.

Why doesnt the NFL use the spread read option? Well, first I believe that the offense is really really new. There arent a lot of schools running the spread read option. It takes different personel and relies a lot of speed and mismatches on the corner. With respect to the option part, we all know the option doesnt work too well in the NFL with the defensive speed and the NFL hash mark layout (vs college). However, its clear the Mia was able to catch a lot of people off guard last year. A lot of good teams, so to say it is a splash in the pan would be short-sighted.

I personally dont believe anybody will run the spread 100% of the time. However, if you have a good feeling on a defensive strat being used against you, it can create a lot of mismatches to your advantage.

 

[baconisgood]

Against a team with a running QB such as Michael Vick, the defenses would "spy" him. That is, a LB or S would have an additional responsibility of keeping an eye on him. Until Miami ran the wildcat, there was no reason to prepare a spy because Pennington wasn't going anywhere. From now on, defenses will prepare for the wildcat every week because every team will have a wilcat option on offense

Even with defenses spying Vick he still averaged 7.3 y/c for his career and his last year was at 8.4. The spy did very little to limit Vick's ability as a runner.

Apples and oranges, I think. Vick wasn't a runner. He gained his yardage scrambling from the pocket, not as an option qb.

1. Many of Vicks runs were called plays, not just scrambles.2. It doesn't matter, it still effectively shows how ineffective a 'spy' is against an elite runner. Run defense is all about closing gaps and pursuit, 1 guy trying to cover the field against a good runner is simply in trouble, it didn't work on Vick and it probably won't work to well against the wild cat.

 

[baconisgood]

Not sure why I am signature worthy, but . . .

While the offense gets one more player to block with, the defense also would get a huge advantage in knowing the play will not be a pass.

I think the wildcat will fizzle out pretty quickly once teams practice defending it, stop it more than they did last year, and a starting QB playing WR gets popped and misses a month of the season. From the times I say the wildcat, the regular QB stayed in the game to add at least a threat of a pass and some chance of razzle dazzle.

Huh? Why does the defense know it will not be a pass? Pat White? Mike Vick? McFadden? Dixon? Ronnie Brown even? These guys have thrown passes, correct?Most people are under the impression that they've seen everything the Wildcat can do just by watching what the Dolphins did last year. That was only scratching the surface of this formation. It really will be interesting when teams take out the weak link of the pkg (e.g., Pennington) and put stellar athletes in the skill positions of the pkg.

Half of those guys can't hit the WR when he is uncovered, none would warrant anything but single coverage on the WR's. I'd send all the other available defenders straight in the backfield. It will last about as long as the run and shoot did.

You would be the worst defensive coach ever and canned halfway through the blowout in which your team became the first team ever to give up 100 pts in an NFL game. If a QB was allowed an open target 10 yards downfield and could still only complete the pass 50% of the time- it would be THE BEST OFFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL.

 

[kremenull]

Not sure why I am signature worthy, but . . .

While the offense gets one more player to block with, the defense also would get a huge advantage in knowing the play will not be a pass.

I think the wildcat will fizzle out pretty quickly once teams practice defending it, stop it more than they did last year, and a starting QB playing WR gets popped and misses a month of the season. From the times I say the wildcat, the regular QB stayed in the game to add at least a threat of a pass and some chance of razzle dazzle.

Huh? Why does the defense know it will not be a pass? Pat White? Mike Vick? McFadden? Dixon? Ronnie Brown even? These guys have thrown passes, correct?Most people are under the impression that they've seen everything the Wildcat can do just by watching what the Dolphins did last year. That was only scratching the surface of this formation. It really will be interesting when teams take out the weak link of the pkg (e.g., Pennington) and put stellar athletes in the skill positions of the pkg.

Half of those guys can't hit the WR when he is uncovered, none would warrant anything but single coverage on the WR's. I'd send all the other available defenders straight in the backfield. It will last about as long as the run and shoot did.

Did you watch the QBs perform at the combine? Have you been reading any Mia training camp (or OTA) updates?

Yes. And yes.So when Ronnie Brown threw the TD pass to Fasano last season, they knew it would be a run. Now, you add a QB into the picture, and they will most certainly know it is a run every time.

Yep. You are right on the money, sir.

That is what they want out of this pkg, single coverage on the WR, removing the safety out of the deep middle. Go tell your strategy of how to attack the Wildcat to all the DCs in the league, please do. Better yet, just watch how your idea of how to defend it gets shredded to pieces by the teams correctly running the Wildcat, if any DC is apt to use your suggestions here.

 

[SSOG]

How many QB's are accomplished blockers? I don't see much advantage, since a QB spread out trying to make a block will have a HUGE bullseye on him for somebody like Ray Lewis to make him miss the rest of the season. As for the OP's question, I don't think the Wild Cat will be a flash in the pan, but it will just be another gadget play or formation used in certain situations.

Who said the QB had to be on the field during Wildcat plays. Sure, David Lee kept Pennington on last year because he was using the Wildcat as a surprise formation (i.e. getting the defense to commit to a personnel package and then shifting his offensive formation). In Arkansas, though, Lee frequently sat his QB down on the sidelines for the play. If you're worried about what's going to happen if you line your QB up at WR (and as someone already pointed out, blocking as a WR is probably less risky than dropping back to pass), then don't do it- nothing in the Wildcat really calls for it, anyway.

I think the value of running a wildcat formation depends on how good the QB is that your are taking out of his pocket position. If he is mediocre (say like Pennington), there is not as much lost. But if he is a great passer, a lot is lost because great passers can pick apart defenses from the pocket and make good receivers great.It may also depend on how well the OLine can protect a pocket passer. If not much well, than wildcat looks better.But I would not be in favor of taking a guy like Brees out of his normal position to replace him with Vick for anything more than the rare gadget play. Not part of the regular offense.

It's funny, you could say the same thing about running plays. I mean, if you have Drew Brees, why would you ever take the ball out of his hands and put it into a RB's?Offenses thrive on variety. No matter how good your QB is, there are some situations where running the ball is a higher percentage play (and the Wildcat is a fundamentally sound running play). Also, no one has an offense that's 1 play long- keeping your best play and eliminating everything else, because why on earth would you run them over your best play?- so obviously there's a sound strategic advantage to include slightly less "optimal" plays on hand (if for no other reason than to give the defense something to prepare for and anticipate). And it's not a question of whether Drew Brees is a better passer than Michael Vick (he is, no question), it's sometimes a question of whether Drew Brees is a better passer when 7 men are in the box than Michael Vick is when 9 men are in the box. Suddenly it's not such a slam dunk, which means defensive philosophy (and an offense's desire to dictate it) provides more reasons to run the wildcat. Furthermore, the THREAT of the wildcat could easily make a Drew Brees pass play more effective. Say that New Orleans has been running 3-wide successfully all game long, and the opposing defense had reacted by switching to nickle defense, which reduced the value of the 3-wide formation. Now, New Orleans starts lining up in 3-wide, and after the defense sends its nickle package on the field, New Orleans motions into the Wildcat and starts abusing the other team with the run on back-to-back plays. The next time New Orleans lines up in the 3-wide, odds are good Drew Brees is going to see a base defensive package as opposed to a nickle package thanks to the THREAT of Wildcat, but instead he can sit back there and continue picking apart the base defense with passes.Offenses thrive on what are referred to as play series. The offense runs a first play well, so the defense adjusts to defend it better. The offense then runs a second play that is designed to run well against a defense anticipating the first play, so the defense adjusts to defend the second play (or even to try and defend either the first or the second). The offense then switches to a third play which is designed to punish defenses trying to defend the first and second plays. The defense adapts to shut down the third play... but the first play is designed to work against defenses defending against the third play, so the cycle continues. Eventually, the defense says "screw this" and lines up in a fundamentally unsound defensive formation that manages to defend all three plays of the series... so the offense runs a "constraint play", a play that's not fundamentally sound against a fundamentally sound defense, but a play that will punish any defense that's selling out to stop the series and force them to get back into their base defense so the series can continue. That's solid, fundamental "white board" offense (as in, it always work on the whiteboard), and all NFL offenses are based heavily on white board offense. To use the 2004 Denver Broncos offense as an example... Denver would start out with a series of Reuben Droughns runs up the middle, which were fundamentally sound against 7 men in the box because the zone-blocking scheme meant that there should always be a hole SOMEWHERE. Eventually, the defense would tire of the abuse and would move an 8th defender into the box. At this point, Jake Plummer would run a play fake and start throwing outside to Rod Smith. The defense would react by instructing its DEs to stop worrying about containment and start crashing the pocket to give backside pursuit on the RB and to diminish the effectiveness of the play action. At this point, Denver would call a bootleg, Plummer would get outside the DE, and he'd be alone on one side of the field with Putzier about 15 yards down and Lelie 30 yards downfield. If the safety on that side committed to Lelie and the LB committed to Putz, Plummer would run for about 8-10 yards. If the safety committed to Lelie and the LB came up to stop the Plummer run, Plummer would dump it over top for a 15-20 yard gain from Putzier. If the Safety came up to defend Putz and the LB came up to stop Plummer from running, Plummer would chuck it downfield and Lelie would be off to the races. Eventually, the DEs would stop crashing the pocket in order to contain Plummer inside again, and Denver would go back to the runs inside, runs outside, and play action passes.Why does all of this matter? Because the wildcat is not just a self-contained series with the threat of a halfback pass serving as a self-contained constraint play, but motioning into the Wildcat is also capable of being a fundamentally sound play in another series, or even as serving as a constraint play when defenses aren't playing honest defense. In other words, unlike the option, which failed in Atlanta because it's FUNDAMENTALLY UNSOUND at the NFL level (where the field is effectively smaller than it is in the college game), the wildcat is a fundamentally sound offense and there's no reason why it can't work at the NFL level. It's not a gimmick, it's not a surprise, it's just a different formation.The Pistol is a "college offense", but KC ran that to great effect last year. Much of New England's playbook in their record-setting campaign was taken from Urban Meyer's at Florida, which means the best offense in NFL history borrowed heavily from a "college offense". And let's not forget that the West Coast Offense was also a "college offense". College offenses can (and will) succeed in the pros... provided they are fundamentally sound and can still manage to operate on the smaller effective field in the NFL.

WTF is SSOG?

Some idiot who should refrain from posting.

 

[SSOG]

Against a team with a running QB such as Michael Vick, the defenses would "spy" him. That is, a LB or S would have an additional responsibility of keeping an eye on him. Until Miami ran the wildcat, there was no reason to prepare a spy because Pennington wasn't going anywhere. From now on, defenses will prepare for the wildcat every week because every team will have a wilcat option on offense.So... I still say, "Flash in the pan".

If using a "spy" was an optimal defensive strategy, teams would use it more often. The fact that they don't demonstrates that it's a SUB OPTIMAL defensive strategy designed to try to stop an offense they otherwise couldn't hope to stop (and Vick still ran for 1000 yards, so it couldn't have been THAT effective). Any offense that forces the defense to use a sub optimal strategy to defend it naturally has a leg up. In this case, the leg up is the fact that the "spy" is neither rushing the guy the ball gets snapped to, nor dropping into coverage, which means that the defense is basically defending passes with 10 men.

I don't think it's necessarily a flash in the pan. I think treating it like an automatic running play will cause people to really come after it. To me what makes the wildcat is successful is that it can break a run quicker than traditional I and shotgun formations because the ball is immediately in the playmakers hands, but also because of the reverse/misdirection plays that can come from it with no real notice.

Another good point. The Wildcat potentially eliminates the handoff, which is good for two reasons: because it slows a play down, and because every time the ball changes hands the element of risk in the play increases.

Well, alright!!!!So now are we ready to put your evaluation to the test here? And you're willing to go the distance with this assessment that Tebow aka "Captain America" aka "Just Say No to S*x" will be better in the long haul than Terrelle Pryor? Let's mark this one down, for the record.......I guess if Pryor would have come into Urban Meyer's collegiate-only system littered with ultra-dynamic playmakers all around him, from All-American TEs to the shiftiest, speediest WRs around.....and I haven't even mentioned Percy Harvin, yeah, remember him, the guy that defenses truly plan for (that's right, it wasn't Tebow and his 2-yd TD runs that they were afraid of). So there it is there, in one corner you have Tebow and his 4.8+ forty, horrid mechanics, and inaccurate arm (completion % isn't the truest measure of accuracy, ball placement is....you can have that one for free)...While in the other corner you have "THE Chosen One", Terrelle Pryor, running circles around "Te-Slow", rifle arm cocked and loaded delivering lasers in tight windows....So what are we on for here? I don't think bragging rights will suffice on this one.......I'm in Cali. What state do you reside in?

Go the distance? Putting my evaluation to the test? You don't even understand what my evaluation is. You said that Tebow couldn't hold Pryor's jock, and I said that's a ludicrous position to take at this time. It's not like I responded by saying "nuh uh, Pryor couldn't hold Tebow's jock if he coated his hands in stickum, nanny nanny!" and plugging my ears- that would be schtick worthy of HK, LHUCKS, or apparently you (if your recent posts are anything to go on). I don't know Tebow will be a better NFL QB than Pryor, any more than you know he won't be. NO ONE KNOWS. Professional scouts, guys who get PAID to project college players to the NFL game, guys who have been doing this for 30, 40, 50, 60 years... THEY don't know. Even if Pryor is the #1 overall draft pick, there's a greater than 50% chance that he's absolutely garbage at the NFL level (We're talking Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, David Carr, Ryan Leaf bad, here). Even if Pryor is touted as the safest QB prospect since Matt Leinart, there's still a great chance he winds up as effective in the NFL as... Matt Leinart. Despite your claims to be the omniscient lord of the roto universe, you don't really have the faintest clue how Pryor or Tebow will wind up in the NFL. All I'm saying is that it's LUDICROUS (LUUUUUUDICROUS!!!) to suggest that arguably the greatest college football player of all time, a guy who has been productive both running and passing at all levels against all competition, a guy who is playing in an offense that the pros are already borrowing heavily from, and a guy who has received ringing endorsements from some of the best offensive minds in the NFL "can't hold the jock" of a freshman QB who's never in his life passed for more than 1800 yards.What are we on for? Are you really delusional? You know we're going to have to wait at least 8 years to "settle" this bet (which isn't really a bet in the first place, since I'm not claiming Tebow is going to be better than Pryor, I'm just claiming you're full of schtick), right? You really think I'm going to put something "on the line" to cover a position that I never adopted as my own in a bet I have no interest in making against a guy I don't even know over the internet in the hopes that we even remember it a decade from now?Of course, if I don't make this "bet" then you're just going to call me chicken and crow as if this proves that your absurd position is somehow justified, so how about this. I bet you thirty billion dollars that my position is right. Remember, my position isn't that Tebow will be a better pro than Pryor, my position is that you're out of touch with reality and you don't know more about football than Jon Gruden. You game?

 

[SSOG]

The reasons that the Spread Read Option is so successful is because it is a dymanic offense. With respect to a running play the QB will make a decision after the snap of the ball whether or not to hand it off or keep it. This means the RB (and O-Line) dont usually know where the play is going. A good example of the play (not the only one) is that the QB will decide to hand it off based on what the DE on his side does. When the ball is snapped, if the DE goes inside, the QB will keep the ball. If the DE goes outside, or even contain the line of scrimmage, the QB will hand it off inside. So even when you guys talk about 11 on 10 or 11 on 9, it isnt accurate. Lots of plays are designed to take out at least 1 defender from the equation. Making it 11 on 10 potentially.If you cant envision the play I described above, you can check out lots of Pat White WVU clips on you tube. That formation is often call the belly read option because the QB will somewhat tuck the ball in his stomach and it is difficult to see if he did or did not hand the ball to the RB. Also, this play is just the basic read play. There are numerous option outs that can produce 4 options on a single run, not counting reverses.Finally, the most dynamic part of this offense is how a defense will try to counter-act what the offense is showing them. This can create many huge plays for the offense if the defensive set plays into what the offense is putting together.Why doesnt the NFL use the spread read option? Well, first I believe that the offense is really really new. There arent a lot of schools running the spread read option. It takes different personel and relies a lot of speed and mismatches on the corner. With respect to the option part, we all know the option doesnt work too well in the NFL with the defensive speed and the NFL hash mark layout (vs college). However, its clear the Mia was able to catch a lot of people off guard last year. A lot of good teams, so to say it is a splash in the pan would be short-sighted.I personally dont believe anybody will run the spread 100% of the time. However, if you have a good feeling on a defensive strat being used against you, it can create a lot of mismatches to your advantage.

The spread read option isn't new, it's just a combination of very old ideas that has recently become very in vogue. The biggest reason the option doesn't work in the NFL is because the DEs are so athletic it's impossible to "option" them into being wrong every time. That's why Atlanta got shut down cold when they tried to run the option back in... 05 or 06, iirc. Also, while no one will ever run ANYTHING 100% of the time in the NFL, several teams have already run the spread as their primary offense in the last couple of years (New England, Denver, and KC are the first examples that spring to my mind). It's not as over-the-top as some of the college spreads (like the airraid), but it's still a spread. All three of the teams I mentioned actually used it to great effect (New England had the best offense in NFL history, Denver was an offensive juggernaut last year, and KC went from totally inept to... borderline ept when they made the switch midway through last season).Since I've spent the entire thread praising the wildcat as a viable NFL offense, I feel like it's probably time to mention some legitimate reasons why it might not catch on at the NFL level. The biggest reason is that today's NFL is a game of specialists. Instead of one guy who can kick well and punt well, the NFL goes for one guy who can kick VERY well and another guy who can punt VERY well. Instead of two WRs who are decent on all types of routes, NFL offenses tend to prefer one WR who is awesome on short routes and another who is awesome on deep routes. Instead of an RB who's a good runner, pass blocker, and receiver, the NFL prefers an RB who's a GREAT runner and a second RB who's a GREAT blocker/receiver- and sometimes they further specialize their RBs based on HOW they run, such as the Giants with Barber/Jacobs, the Broncos with Anderson/Bell, and the Cowboys with Jones/Barber. The wildcat goes against this specialist trend- instead of a GREAT passer and a GREAT runner, you get a very good passer and runner. In the college ranks, this trade is more than worthwhile, because so few teams have NFL-caliber passers or NFL-caliber runners in the first place, so the dropoff is rather small and more than worth the advantage of an effective extra man on offense. In the NFL ranks, it would take a special talent to run the wildcat without much dropoff. I think such special players exist (Tebow, Pryor, Vick, Young, maybe White), so I think the wildcat has an NFL future (even if not as a full-time base offense). It does, however, run directly contrary to the NFL's trend towards specialization.

 

[gianmarco]

Well, alright!!!!So now are we ready to put your evaluation to the test here? And you're willing to go the distance with this assessment that Tebow aka "Captain America" aka "Just Say No to S*x" will be better in the long haul than Terrelle Pryor? Let's mark this one down, for the record.......I guess if Pryor would have come into Urban Meyer's collegiate-only system littered with ultra-dynamic playmakers all around him, from All-American TEs to the shiftiest, speediest WRs around.....and I haven't even mentioned Percy Harvin, yeah, remember him, the guy that defenses truly plan for (that's right, it wasn't Tebow and his 2-yd TD runs that they were afraid of). So there it is there, in one corner you have Tebow and his 4.8+ forty, horrid mechanics, and inaccurate arm (completion % isn't the truest measure of accuracy, ball placement is....you can have that one for free)...While in the other corner you have "THE Chosen One", Terrelle Pryor, running circles around "Te-Slow", rifle arm cocked and loaded delivering lasers in tight windows....So what are we on for here? I don't think bragging rights will suffice on this one.......I'm in Cali. What state do you reside in?

Go the distance? Putting my evaluation to the test? You don't even understand what my evaluation is. You said that Tebow couldn't hold Pryor's jock, and I said that's a ludicrous position to take at this time. It's not like I responded by saying "nuh uh, Pryor couldn't hold Tebow's jock if he coated his hands in stickum, nanny nanny!" and plugging my ears- that would be schtick worthy of HK, LHUCKS, or apparently you (if your recent posts are anything to go on). I don't know Tebow will be a better NFL QB than Pryor, any more than you know he won't be. NO ONE KNOWS. Professional scouts, guys who get PAID to project college players to the NFL game, guys who have been doing this for 30, 40, 50, 60 years... THEY don't know. Even if Pryor is the #1 overall draft pick, there's a greater than 50% chance that he's absolutely garbage at the NFL level (We're talking Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, David Carr, Ryan Leaf bad, here). Even if Pryor is touted as the safest QB prospect since Matt Leinart, there's still a great chance he winds up as effective in the NFL as... Matt Leinart. Despite your claims to be the omniscient lord of the roto universe, you don't really have the faintest clue how Pryor or Tebow will wind up in the NFL. All I'm saying is that it's LUDICROUS (LUUUUUUDICROUS!!!) to suggest that arguably the greatest college football player of all time, a guy who has been productive both running and passing at all levels against all competition, a guy who is playing in an offense that the pros are already borrowing heavily from, and a guy who has received ringing endorsements from some of the best offensive minds in the NFL "can't hold the jock" of a freshman QB who's never in his life passed for more than 1800 yards.What are we on for? Are you really delusional? You know we're going to have to wait at least 8 years to "settle" this bet (which isn't really a bet in the first place, since I'm not claiming Tebow is going to be better than Pryor, I'm just claiming you're full of schtick), right? You really think I'm going to put something "on the line" to cover a position that I never adopted as my own in a bet I have no interest in making against a guy I don't even know over the internet in the hopes that we even remember it a decade from now?Of course, if I don't make this "bet" then you're just going to call me chicken and crow as if this proves that your absurd position is somehow justified, so how about this. I bet you thirty billion dollars that my position is right. Remember, my position isn't that Tebow will be a better pro than Pryor, my position is that you're out of touch with reality and you don't know more about football than Jon Gruden. You game?

 

[Two Deep]

The Wildcat, obviously, may or may not be the future. It depends entirely on the talent pool of the future. Had a player like Michael Vick been available to be drafted this year, I could have seen a team devoted entirely to the Wildcat. In my mind, the more consistent the package becomes in playcalling, the more power it has. It is also a fallacy to think of it as a run-only offense. You need to think of it as an option. The Wildcat QB can begin to run, and if the run is covered can dump it off.

SSOG's initial point is only a simple look at it from a basic numbers point of view. If you look at the possibilities of a QB that has on the field control (a Wildcat option) then the pressure is turned up on the defense. Imagine the Vick-led Falcons with some passing accuracy and you have the optimal Wildcat offense. And if you add in an attacking QB who can both run and pass (and knows when to do both) there is really no stopping it.

Just wait until Jon Gruden returns. If he can convince a team to go all Wildcat and gets Tim Tebow, you will really see how it can work. The Wildcat may not spread now, but once the traditional QB's retire, Wildcats will take over.

Tim Tebow would be broke in half by week three if he carries his style of play to the NFL.

 

[gianmarco]

The Wildcat, obviously, may or may not be the future. It depends entirely on the talent pool of the future. Had a player like Michael Vick been available to be drafted this year, I could have seen a team devoted entirely to the Wildcat. In my mind, the more consistent the package becomes in playcalling, the more power it has. It is also a fallacy to think of it as a run-only offense. You need to think of it as an option. The Wildcat QB can begin to run, and if the run is covered can dump it off.

SSOG's initial point is only a simple look at it from a basic numbers point of view. If you look at the possibilities of a QB that has on the field control (a Wildcat option) then the pressure is turned up on the defense. Imagine the Vick-led Falcons with some passing accuracy and you have the optimal Wildcat offense. And if you add in an attacking QB who can both run and pass (and knows when to do both) there is really no stopping it.

Just wait until Jon Gruden returns. If he can convince a team to go all Wildcat and gets Tim Tebow, you will really see how it can work. The Wildcat may not spread now, but once the traditional QB's retire, Wildcats will take over.

Tim Tebow would be broke in half by week three if he carries his style of play to the NFL.

Tebow is almost 6'3" and 240 lbs. Why would he be "broke in half" when RB's smaller than him take that kind of pounding all game long, game after game, year after year?

 

[Two Deep]

The Wildcat, obviously, may or may not be the future. It depends entirely on the talent pool of the future. Had a player like Michael Vick been available to be drafted this year, I could have seen a team devoted entirely to the Wildcat. In my mind, the more consistent the package becomes in playcalling, the more power it has. It is also a fallacy to think of it as a run-only offense. You need to think of it as an option. The Wildcat QB can begin to run, and if the run is covered can dump it off.

SSOG's initial point is only a simple look at it from a basic numbers point of view. If you look at the possibilities of a QB that has on the field control (a Wildcat option) then the pressure is turned up on the defense. Imagine the Vick-led Falcons with some passing accuracy and you have the optimal Wildcat offense. And if you add in an attacking QB who can both run and pass (and knows when to do both) there is really no stopping it.

Just wait until Jon Gruden returns. If he can convince a team to go all Wildcat and gets Tim Tebow, you will really see how it can work. The Wildcat may not spread now, but once the traditional QB's retire, Wildcats will take over.

Tim Tebow would be broke in half by week three if he carries his style of play to the NFL.

Tebow is almost 6'3" and 240 lbs. Why would he be "broke in half" when RB's smaller than him take that kind of pounding all game long, game after game, year after year?

Running backs are much more elusive that is why they are running backs, they slip tackles make people miss etc. I tought that you would know this.

 

[gianmarco]

The Wildcat, obviously, may or may not be the future. It depends entirely on the talent pool of the future. Had a player like Michael Vick been available to be drafted this year, I could have seen a team devoted entirely to the Wildcat. In my mind, the more consistent the package becomes in playcalling, the more power it has. It is also a fallacy to think of it as a run-only offense. You need to think of it as an option. The Wildcat QB can begin to run, and if the run is covered can dump it off.

SSOG's initial point is only a simple look at it from a basic numbers point of view. If you look at the possibilities of a QB that has on the field control (a Wildcat option) then the pressure is turned up on the defense. Imagine the Vick-led Falcons with some passing accuracy and you have the optimal Wildcat offense. And if you add in an attacking QB who can both run and pass (and knows when to do both) there is really no stopping it.

Just wait until Jon Gruden returns. If he can convince a team to go all Wildcat and gets Tim Tebow, you will really see how it can work. The Wildcat may not spread now, but once the traditional QB's retire, Wildcats will take over.

Tim Tebow would be broke in half by week three if he carries his style of play to the NFL.

Tebow is almost 6'3" and 240 lbs. Why would he be "broke in half" when RB's smaller than him take that kind of pounding all game long, game after game, year after year?

Running backs are much more elusive that is why they are running backs, they slip tackles make people miss etc. I tought that you would know this.

Tim Tebow is elusive and can slip tackles and make people miss. I thought that you would know this.
A little more of Tebow showing he can actually run like a RB

 

[benm3218]

Against a team with a running QB such as Michael Vick, the defenses would "spy" him. That is, a LB or S would have an additional responsibility of keeping an eye on him. Until Miami ran the wildcat, there was no reason to prepare a spy because Pennington wasn't going anywhere. From now on, defenses will prepare for the wildcat every week because every team will have a wilcat option on offense.So... I still say, "Flash in the pan".

If using a "spy" was an optimal defensive strategy, teams would use it more often. The fact that they don't demonstrates that it's a SUB OPTIMAL defensive strategy designed to try to stop an offense they otherwise couldn't hope to stop (and Vick still ran for 1000 yards, so it couldn't have been THAT effective). Any offense that forces the defense to use a sub optimal strategy to defend it naturally has a leg up. In this case, the leg up is the fact that the "spy" is neither rushing the guy the ball gets snapped to, nor dropping into coverage, which means that the defense is basically defending passes with 10 men.

I don't think it's necessarily a flash in the pan. I think treating it like an automatic running play will cause people to really come after it. To me what makes the wildcat is successful is that it can break a run quicker than traditional I and shotgun formations because the ball is immediately in the playmakers hands, but also because of the reverse/misdirection plays that can come from it with no real notice.

Another good point. The Wildcat potentially eliminates the handoff, which is good for two reasons: because it slows a play down, and because every time the ball changes hands the element of risk in the play increases.

Well, alright!!!!So now are we ready to put your evaluation to the test here? And you're willing to go the distance with this assessment that Tebow aka "Captain America" aka "Just Say No to S*x" will be better in the long haul than Terrelle Pryor? Let's mark this one down, for the record.......I guess if Pryor would have come into Urban Meyer's collegiate-only system littered with ultra-dynamic playmakers all around him, from All-American TEs to the shiftiest, speediest WRs around.....and I haven't even mentioned Percy Harvin, yeah, remember him, the guy that defenses truly plan for (that's right, it wasn't Tebow and his 2-yd TD runs that they were afraid of). So there it is there, in one corner you have Tebow and his 4.8+ forty, horrid mechanics, and inaccurate arm (completion % isn't the truest measure of accuracy, ball placement is....you can have that one for free)...While in the other corner you have "THE Chosen One", Terrelle Pryor, running circles around "Te-Slow", rifle arm cocked and loaded delivering lasers in tight windows....So what are we on for here? I don't think bragging rights will suffice on this one.......I'm in Cali. What state do you reside in?

Go the distance? Putting my evaluation to the test? You don't even understand what my evaluation is. You said that Tebow couldn't hold Pryor's jock, and I said that's a ludicrous position to take at this time. It's not like I responded by saying "nuh uh, Pryor couldn't hold Tebow's jock if he coated his hands in stickum, nanny nanny!" and plugging my ears- that would be schtick worthy of HK, LHUCKS, or apparently you (if your recent posts are anything to go on). I don't know Tebow will be a better NFL QB than Pryor, any more than you know he won't be. NO ONE KNOWS. Professional scouts, guys who get PAID to project college players to the NFL game, guys who have been doing this for 30, 40, 50, 60 years... THEY don't know. Even if Pryor is the #1 overall draft pick, there's a greater than 50% chance that he's absolutely garbage at the NFL level (We're talking Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, David Carr, Ryan Leaf bad, here). Even if Pryor is touted as the safest QB prospect since Matt Leinart, there's still a great chance he winds up as effective in the NFL as... Matt Leinart. Despite your claims to be the omniscient lord of the roto universe, you don't really have the faintest clue how Pryor or Tebow will wind up in the NFL. All I'm saying is that it's LUDICROUS (LUUUUUUDICROUS!!!) to suggest that arguably the greatest college football player of all time, a guy who has been productive both running and passing at all levels against all competition, a guy who is playing in an offense that the pros are already borrowing heavily from, and a guy who has received ringing endorsements from some of the best offensive minds in the NFL "can't hold the jock" of a freshman QB who's never in his life passed for more than 1800 yards.What are we on for? Are you really delusional? You know we're going to have to wait at least 8 years to "settle" this bet (which isn't really a bet in the first place, since I'm not claiming Tebow is going to be better than Pryor, I'm just claiming you're full of schtick), right? You really think I'm going to put something "on the line" to cover a position that I never adopted as my own in a bet I have no interest in making against a guy I don't even know over the internet in the hopes that we even remember it a decade from now?Of course, if I don't make this "bet" then you're just going to call me chicken and crow as if this proves that your absurd position is somehow justified, so how about this. I bet you thirty billion dollars that my position is right. Remember, my position isn't that Tebow will be a better pro than Pryor, my position is that you're out of touch with reality and you don't know more about football than Jon Gruden. You game?

LOL - nice

 

[Instinctive]

The Wildcat, obviously, may or may not be the future. It depends entirely on the talent pool of the future. Had a player like Michael Vick been available to be drafted this year, I could have seen a team devoted entirely to the Wildcat. In my mind, the more consistent the package becomes in playcalling, the more power it has. It is also a fallacy to think of it as a run-only offense. You need to think of it as an option. The Wildcat QB can begin to run, and if the run is covered can dump it off.

SSOG's initial point is only a simple look at it from a basic numbers point of view. If you look at the possibilities of a QB that has on the field control (a Wildcat option) then the pressure is turned up on the defense. Imagine the Vick-led Falcons with some passing accuracy and you have the optimal Wildcat offense. And if you add in an attacking QB who can both run and pass (and knows when to do both) there is really no stopping it.

Just wait until Jon Gruden returns. If he can convince a team to go all Wildcat and gets Tim Tebow, you will really see how it can work. The Wildcat may not spread now, but once the traditional QB's retire, Wildcats will take over.

Tim Tebow would be broke in half by week three if he carries his style of play to the NFL.

Tebow is almost 6'3" and 240 lbs. Why would he be "broke in half" when RB's smaller than him take that kind of pounding all game long, game after game, year after year?

Running backs are much more elusive that is why they are running backs, they slip tackles make people miss etc. I tought that you would know this.

Tim Tebow is elusive and can slip tackles and make people miss. I thought that you would know this.

Also:Jerome Bettis

LenDale White

Corey Dillon

Marion Barber

Brandon Jacobs

Just off the top of my head. Yo don't have to be ultra elusive, you can be very powerful also. Tebow has the size and strength to do just that.

Now, if you want to call LenDale White "much more elusive," that's your reputation goin down the toilet. I won't stop you. But if you don't think he's much more elusive, you probably want to think about the breaking in half prediction.

 

[Instinctive]

Well, alright!!!!So now are we ready to put your evaluation to the test here? And you're willing to go the distance with this assessment that Tebow aka "Captain America" aka "Just Say No to S*x" will be better in the long haul than Terrelle Pryor? Let's mark this one down, for the record.......I guess if Pryor would have come into Urban Meyer's collegiate-only system littered with ultra-dynamic playmakers all around him, from All-American TEs to the shiftiest, speediest WRs around.....and I haven't even mentioned Percy Harvin, yeah, remember him, the guy that defenses truly plan for (that's right, it wasn't Tebow and his 2-yd TD runs that they were afraid of). So there it is there, in one corner you have Tebow and his 4.8+ forty, horrid mechanics, and inaccurate arm (completion % isn't the truest measure of accuracy, ball placement is....you can have that one for free)...While in the other corner you have "THE Chosen One", Terrelle Pryor, running circles around "Te-Slow", rifle arm cocked and loaded delivering lasers in tight windows....So what are we on for here? I don't think bragging rights will suffice on this one.......I'm in Cali. What state do you reside in?

Go the distance? Putting my evaluation to the test? You don't even understand what my evaluation is. You said that Tebow couldn't hold Pryor's jock, and I said that's a ludicrous position to take at this time. It's not like I responded by saying "nuh uh, Pryor couldn't hold Tebow's jock if he coated his hands in stickum, nanny nanny!" and plugging my ears- that would be schtick worthy of HK, LHUCKS, or apparently you (if your recent posts are anything to go on). I don't know Tebow will be a better NFL QB than Pryor, any more than you know he won't be. NO ONE KNOWS. Professional scouts, guys who get PAID to project college players to the NFL game, guys who have been doing this for 30, 40, 50, 60 years... THEY don't know. Even if Pryor is the #1 overall draft pick, there's a greater than 50% chance that he's absolutely garbage at the NFL level (We're talking Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, David Carr, Ryan Leaf bad, here). Even if Pryor is touted as the safest QB prospect since Matt Leinart, there's still a great chance he winds up as effective in the NFL as... Matt Leinart. Despite your claims to be the omniscient lord of the roto universe, you don't really have the faintest clue how Pryor or Tebow will wind up in the NFL. All I'm saying is that it's LUDICROUS (LUUUUUUDICROUS!!!) to suggest that arguably the greatest college football player of all time, a guy who has been productive both running and passing at all levels against all competition, a guy who is playing in an offense that the pros are already borrowing heavily from, and a guy who has received ringing endorsements from some of the best offensive minds in the NFL "can't hold the jock" of a freshman QB who's never in his life passed for more than 1800 yards.What are we on for? Are you really delusional? You know we're going to have to wait at least 8 years to "settle" this bet (which isn't really a bet in the first place, since I'm not claiming Tebow is going to be better than Pryor, I'm just claiming you're full of schtick), right? You really think I'm going to put something "on the line" to cover a position that I never adopted as my own in a bet I have no interest in making against a guy I don't even know over the internet in the hopes that we even remember it a decade from now?Of course, if I don't make this "bet" then you're just going to call me chicken and crow as if this proves that your absurd position is somehow justified, so how about this. I bet you thirty billion dollars that my position is right. Remember, my position isn't that Tebow will be a better pro than Pryor, my position is that you're out of touch with reality and you don't know more about football than Jon Gruden. You game?

(just seconding that opinion)

 

[benm3218]

laughing at the thought of Kremenull furiously typing and misspelling words in his haste and anger.

10 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)

8 Members: gianmarco, Obie Wan, Xue, benm3218, Tigerbot Hesh, Pied Piper, kremenull, bigmarc27

 

[mbuehner]

The reason the wildcat had some success last year was the confusion it caused the defense- not the mismatches the Wildcat creates itself.

The fallacy here is that an extra blocker is always more favorable to the offense at the expense of spreading the field out. This is not necessarily the case. The greater the number of players involved in a play, the more it favors the defense (because we have a finite field). For instance- 2 blockers against 2 defenders is less favorable to the defender than 7 blockers vs 6 defenders. We see this every running play. There are 2 main reasons for this- one, the sideline means that the more players there are period, the less running room. Two- it only takes 1 blocker missing an assignment to result in a tackle. The more blockers you rely on the more likelihood a block will be missed.

The wildcat results in compression of the field. It's effective when the defense lines up in their base defense, because they create an imbalance at the point of attack. The simple solution is to play a man style defense to respond to the unbalanced line. Either the offense has a RB taking the snap- in which case he simply by definition is not going to be as effective a passer as a real QB meaning the defense can indeed play man and take their chances... or you have your Mike Vick and sooner or later he's going to get hurt (same reason you don't see the option offense, you beat the option by making sure you blow up the QB every single play). Point being- if you HAVE a great running QB, he will be more effective running in a standard formation anyway, just as Vick had success doing in the first place (wide open field equals more options, see above).

Anyway, I think the wildcat will peter out this year pretty quick. Once every defense knows how to play it intuitively, it simply is less effective at what it is trying to do.

Now the Polecat formation... that would be interesting. Its kind of the opposite of the Wildcat because it puts the QB behind only 2 blockers, one of which is eligible. The entire line lines up on one side of the field with a RB behind it, and the 2 receivers line up on the opposite side. This creates the example of minimizing the number of blockers per defender at the point of attack- assuming you have 2 defenders lined up over the ball you will have 2 on 2, but if they stack the ball you will have a mismatch somewhere else. I'd like to see it tried