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Wildcat (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter perry147
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Normally the quarterback hands off to the running back, basically leaving the quarterback as a useless player on the play. In the wildcat, the QB is positioned out of the way and the ball is snapped straight to the RB, you get an extra blocker on the play.
jurb26
Footballguy
Long story short, it allows the offense to get a blocking advantage they don't see by using a traditional QB. The QB is basically a wasted man on hand-offs in the NFL. When the RB is the QB it allows all the other 10 guys to block.
There a many other threads with far more advanced explanations if you do a search. This is the cliff's notes.
There a many other threads with far more advanced explanations if you do a search. This is the cliff's notes.
Chaka
Footballguy
Sure it forces defenses to account for the QB in theory but considering there are maybe three QBs in the entire league that can actually run worth a darn, the vast majority of the time the DB covering the QB will be cheating towards the run negating the blocker advantage.
gregjcross
Footballguy
It went from a genius stroke of creativity last year by one coaching staff into a pathetic display of "me too" by about 30 of 32 teams this month.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
I can't figure out why people talk about Vick and Pat White running the Wildcat. It's just a regular offense with a mobile QB if those guys are taking the snaps.
GregR_2
Footballguy
They still have to cover the QB though. If they don't, they offense could fake a sweep to the QB's side and when the DB leaves him uncovered, they'll throw a halfback pass to him. Granted you don't want to use your QB as a WR and have him getting hit a lot. But if we're talking about a completely wide open QB downfield who is along the sideline where he can step out rather than be hit, I think any coach in the NFL would happily take that. The DB still has to respect the QB as a potential receiver or risk getting burned.Sure it forces defenses to account for the QB in theory but considering there are maybe three QBs in the entire league that can actually run worth a darn, the vast majority of the time the DB covering the QB will be cheating towards the run negating the blocker advantage.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I still haven't figured out why teams don't cover the QB with a safety and have him beat on the QB at the snap.
littletank
Footballguy
I don't know of many NFL coaches that are going to allow there QB get smacked in the jaw, which is exactly what I would do as a defensive player. The QB is fair game once he becomes a blocker.They still have to cover the QB though. If they don't, they offense could fake a sweep to the QB's side and when the DB leaves him uncovered, they'll throw a halfback pass to him. Granted you don't want to use your QB as a WR and have him getting hit a lot. But if we're talking about a completely wide open QB downfield who is along the sideline where he can step out rather than be hit, I think any coach in the NFL would happily take that. The DB still has to respect the QB as a potential receiver or risk getting burned.
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perry147
Footballguy
Middle Linebackers better.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Exactly. Bump and run all day. Put your LB out there to cover the QB and smack him around. That'll end the Wild Cat for most teams.I don't know of many NFL coaches that are going to allow there QB get smacked in the jaw, which is exactly what I would do as a defensive player. The QB is fair game once he becomes a blocker.They still have to cover the QB though. If they don't, they offense could fake a sweep to the QB's side and when the DB leaves him uncovered, they'll throw a halfback pass to him. Granted you don't want to use your QB as a WR and have him getting hit a lot. But if we're talking about a completely wide open QB downfield who is along the sideline where he can step out rather than be hit, I think any coach in the NFL would happily take that. The DB still has to respect the QB as a potential receiver or risk getting burned.Sure it forces defenses to account for the QB in theory but considering there are maybe three QBs in the entire league that can actually run worth a darn, the vast majority of the time the DB covering the QB will be cheating towards the run negating the blocker advantage.
GregR_2
Footballguy
If you are devoting one of your defensive players to attacking the QB, then obviously that player can't be "cheating towards the run negating the blocker advantage", which is what the discussion was about.But since you bring up something else, let's talk about it. You guys are far from the first to say things like this. Yet the Wildcat's use has spread rather than be reduced. So clearly teams are not going out there and hammering the QB. Why? I don't know that any of us short of an NFL coach can definitely give their complete reasoning, but I imagine it's a combination of things. If you have the defensive player molesting the QB rather than helping to stop the ball carrier then he's taking himself out of the play. Just how violent can you get with a receiver before it becomes a penalty? You can't hit him in the head, that's a penalty to do to a WR. You can't punch him. If you grab him to drive him into the ground you can get called for holding and give up a first down, not to mention a possible unecessary roughness if you get carried away (which is after all what your goal was, to get carried away with the violence). If he's able to get 5 yards upfield then any contact you have with him is a penalty and an automatic first down. Not to mention that you don't know the Wildcat is coming until the huddle breaks and the QB runs out there. So if you want to go stick a linebacker on him to hit him harder, you don't have time to sub out a DB for a LB. You just took a linebacker away from the line and replaced him with a defensive back, on a play where the offense has one more blocker to work with than normal. Probably not a very good idea.In theory, banging up the QB may seem to have merit, but it isn't being done to a level that is stopping the Wildcat. The opposite, the use of it has spread.Exactly. Bump and run all day. Put your LB out there to cover the QB and smack him around. That'll end the Wild Cat for most teams.I don't know of many NFL coaches that are going to allow there QB get smacked in the jaw, which is exactly what I would do as a defensive player. The QB is fair game once he becomes a blocker.They still have to cover the QB though. If they don't, they offense could fake a sweep to the QB's side and when the DB leaves him uncovered, they'll throw a halfback pass to him. Granted you don't want to use your QB as a WR and have him getting hit a lot. But if we're talking about a completely wide open QB downfield who is along the sideline where he can step out rather than be hit, I think any coach in the NFL would happily take that. The DB still has to respect the QB as a potential receiver or risk getting burned.Sure it forces defenses to account for the QB in theory but considering there are maybe three QBs in the entire league that can actually run worth a darn, the vast majority of the time the DB covering the QB will be cheating towards the run negating the blocker advantage.
They are also pulling all their WRs as well. They are basically running a power wildcat with 2-3 running backs and 3 TEs.
fozzy fosbourne
Footballguy
They have something like 10 yards per carry on it too. It's looking really strong against Indy.
Chaka
Footballguy
I am very impressed with how they are using the formation tonight.
Except the Vikings, they put Favre in to take out some DB's knees.... But Childress is doesnt have good sense
conan2
Footballguy
Says more about Indy's D than the effectiveness of the wildcat, I think.
loose circuits
Footballguy
Miami runs it better than anybody. It's all built on timing. It starts with the offensive line. At times (like Cobbs' reverse) the OL know when they can peel off and get down field. Pretty amazing watching it actually. Wonder what Pat White is thinking since he's not involved
I'm expecting a Brown TD pass as soon as Indy goes cover 0
I'm expecting a Brown TD pass as soon as Indy goes cover 0
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Chaka
Footballguy
That was a bad play all the way around. Not sure they have actually employed that in the first two regular games, although they did insert Tarvaris in as the up back on the punt team, which I think is pretty creative and will give special teams coaches a little something extra to prepare for.
fozzy fosbourne
Footballguy
That's the thing, it seems like it's gimmick-ness has been overblown a bit -- it's not like a play you can stop dead in it's tracks if you know it's coming, it's a pretty straight forward package that your rush defense has to beat. Miami's basically running it like a goal-line formation out there and there's still a ton of blocking to overcome.
The wildcat isn't just direct snapping to the RB, any more than the WCO is just throwing a lot of slants. It's an entire series of plays designed to set each other up. A key component is the read handoff, and one of the strengths is the ability to turn any one of three players into the ballcarrier, which spreads the defense much thinner than against a typical running play.
That's the thing that a lot of people have been saying all offseason- there's no quick solution to stopping it, because it's fundamentally sound whiteboard football. Fundamentally sound white board football means that if every offensive player succeeds at his assignment, the play succeeds 100% of the time. Some things that succeed in high school or college can't succeed in the pros because they're not fundamentally sound- they rely on principles like "our athletes are better than theirs" or "we'll catch them by surprise". This isn't the case with the Wildcat, which is just as valid an offensive philosophy as any other philosophy in the NFL right now.
bentley
Footballguy
So what makes this a Wildcat play and not just a zone read? What's the technical definition for Wildcat? As someone noted earlier, it seems like it should just be a regular offense if Pat White is in the game.I'm sure this has been answered elsewhere, but I have a three digit member number and can't be troubled to use the search function.ETA - The video above helps. I'm surprised that Vince Young isn't involved in the model Wildcat offense. Looks a lot like what he did at Texas.mcintyre1 said:
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It is a lot like what he did at Texas, although I heard rumors when Vince Young came out that he specifically wanted to run a more pro-style offense for various reasons (his health and to prove the "doubters" wrong). Nothing from reliable sources that I'd take as gospel, just rumblings here and there. That's why Miami drafted White in the second, though- because it's perfectly suited to his skill set. On the whiteboard, it's an incredibly dangerous offense when it's run by a guy who can both run and pass at an NFL (or near-NFL) level.A lot of really smart football guys (like John Gruden) are really excited about the possibility of acquiring several of the Pat Whites, Tim Tebows, Jake Lockers, Vince Youngs, and Mike Vicks of the world on the cheap because traditional NFL teams don't value their skillset and then running the spread or the wildcat or some other "college offenses" on a more full-time basis. It would also dramatically reduce the injury risk, because if Tim Tebow injures his shoulder, you just replace him with Jake Locker or Pat White.
Jimmy James
Footballguy
In that context, the injuries that accumulate almost become a feature of the strategy. Players who get injured and replaced by competent personnel are judged to be injury risks and/or a "product of the system" and are therefore not as expensive to sign.
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Tau837
Footballguy
On Sportscenter, Millen (insert joke here) just said it doesn't matter if the QB is in or not... doesn't matter if it is QB or WR split out... the point is simply to take a defender out of the play. Because as has been noted in this thread, that player, QB or WR, must be accounted for.
It seems to me that what Miami is doing with its Wildcat isn't much different than what Atlanta did with Vick when they implemented the zone read offense. I suppose the main difference is that Vick passed more where Brown runs more... but the point is that the guy receiving the snap is a great runner, and thus is not necessarily taken out of the play by handing off on running plays.
I think the next innovation is for a team to put two guys on the field like Vick, Pat White, etc., so there are multiple options that involve different potential passers who can also run.
It seems to me that what Miami is doing with its Wildcat isn't much different than what Atlanta did with Vick when they implemented the zone read offense. I suppose the main difference is that Vick passed more where Brown runs more... but the point is that the guy receiving the snap is a great runner, and thus is not necessarily taken out of the play by handing off on running plays.
I think the next innovation is for a team to put two guys on the field like Vick, Pat White, etc., so there are multiple options that involve different potential passers who can also run.
The Jerk
Footballguy
May I add that Miami is a natural place for this strategy to be utilized because they lack the offensive playmakers that go out and make big plays from traditional offensive sets. (Actually, being the Wildcat is really an old offense made new again, I should define traditional in this case to mean the past 10-15 seasons in the NFL.)Miami both lacks the "big play guys" and has personnel in the RB and TE area that can succeed in the Wildcat. It's a natural fit. Yet if the Dolphins success proves to be a one year wonder, the Wildcat train might be slowed considerably. It's more than a fad at this point -- at least for the Dolphins -- but I'm not convinced it will be as relevant a few seasons from now. It's hard to consistently win games with long drives. Between turnovers, penalties and negative plays, hard drives are hard for any NFL offense. Even tonight, despite dominating several significant statistics, the simple inability to finish the drives with TDs prevented the Dolphins from winning.SSOG said:
az_prof
Footballguy
I agree with much of this but imagine how effective Miami would run it if they had a WR like Harvin? I think this formation has alot of positives and will be around for a long time. It doesn't replace a standard formation but it supplements it.
The Jerk
Footballguy
We may be speaking about different formations. If there is no QB (or even hybrid QB like Pat White) in the game, WRs are not much of a threat as receivers. If I'm a defensive coordinator, I'll take my chances having Ronnie Brown pass downfield. If you're referring to reverses, maybe that's a little different.Either way, my preceding post was mostly about not having game-breakers (Ginn is the biggest one, potentially, and he's not done it much yet). Your post reinforces that point because they don't have a player like Harvin. With Pat White at QB, and therefore a different Wildcat then what was run most of the night against the Colts, maybe a Harvin-esque player adds a new dimension, but for now it's hypothetical.I can't help but be reminded of how the 1980s Bengals under Sam Wyche had so much talent on offense but kept trying to win through their so-called "sugar huddle" and trying to catch defenses substituting in offsides penalties instead of just going out and executing well, enabling their talent to prevail. Perhaps it's just how I feel as an old Steeler fan who is almost genetically wired to follow a Chuck Noll approach to football. Gimmicks almost never get a team to the top.
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I figured that was why Pat White was drafted. superior athlete, but probably never will be a starting QB. Because he is such a good athlete, he probably could be a RB or a WR instead of a QB. With him as the WR in the wildcat, teams should not ignore him if he runs a passing route.Chaka said:
I think the reason why Miami is the most successful at the Wildcat is simply because Miami is the only team that has fully committed to the Wildcat, instead of just tossing in a few plays and giving the players a handful of practice reps on them. It seems that at any level, in any offense, the difference between great and mediocre is often measured by commitment to the scheme.With that said, I know long drives can be tough, but the Wildcat does present a great quick-strike option (the misdirection in the backfield opens the door to a greater probability of really long runs, and it'll frequently shake a receiver open deep behind the secondary). Besides, the whole basis of the WCO is long drives, and that works pretty well at the NFL level.
Percy Harvin would be LETHAL split wide in the wildcat, even with Ronnie Brown under center. Really, the WRs only serve 3 purposes in the wildcat- blocking for running plays, taking reverses to keep the backside of the defense honest, and going deep to run the safeties out of the play. Harvin's actually a very good blocking WR (Florida asks even its star WRs to block more than almost any other major college program), Harvin's definitely the best rushing WR in the NFL, and Harvin's crazy fast and an incredible deep threat. He's pretty much the prototypical Wildcat WR. His biggest negative (route running) is essentially a non-factor. Short of Harvin, Ginn's actually a much better Wildcat WR than traditional WR, just because he's really, really fast.Also, the safeties *HAVE TO* honor the threat of the pass. If Harvin or Ginn is racing 30 yards down field, and the safeties are hanging around within 10 yards of the LoS, even Ronnie Brown will be able to get them the ball. If the safeties are 20 yards downfield honoring the threat of the pass in the slightest, then they're effectively out of the picture on running plays. All it takes is one play where the defense doesn't pay enough attention to the threat of the pass and suddenly before you know it you've got a WR behind the defense with no defender within 10 yards. You don't have to be Peyton Manning to make that throw (although obviously Pat White > Ronnie Brown in that regard).
NeverEnough
Footballguy
It makes babies
