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Will Big Ben get suspended? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
Tau837
Footballguy
Rape/sexual assault on a 20 year old is a worse offense than anything I can think of for which players are typically suspended. Seriously, I'd be interested in a list of offenses that are worse.
- Vick's crimes? Hard to compare, because the gambling association is a big issue for league integrity... but I'd say rape/sexual assault of a 20 year old is worse.
- Domestic violence? Unless it results in extreme injury or death, rape/sexual assault of a 20 year old is worse.
- Gun offenses? Unless the gun was used to attempt or commit murder, rape/sexual assault of a 20 year old is worse.
- Drug offenses/DUIs? Rape/sexual assault of a 20 year old is worse.
- Killing someone else accidentally? Little and Stallworth come to mind as examples. Of course the fact that someone died in those cases makes them worse, but it is noteworthy that in those cases, there was no evil intent as there is in rape/sexual assault.
In general, anything worse than rape/sexual assault would almost certainly be addressed through severe legal system penalties, meaning further suspension isn't applicable (e.g., Carruth). So this is as bad as it gets for an offense that can warrant NFL suspension.
If Ben is charged with rape/sexual assault, I'd expect an indefinite suspension pending legal resolution. If he was subsequently found not guilty or otherwise absolved, I assume his suspension would end up being "time served" to reach that point (i.e., however many games he already missed).
If he is convicted of rape/sexual assault, I assume he'll serve jail time. In that case, Goodell may not tack on a suspension to that "time served," depending on how long it is... but I think it's more likely that he would tack on at least 2 games. Vick got 2 games, and his crimes weren't as bad IMO. (And presumably Tony Dungy won't be in Ben's corner when it comes time for reinstatement...)
IMO if he is guilty, his time away from football, whether due to prison or suspension or both, definitely needs to exceed 4 games. I think it should be *at least* a full season. And that might happen naturally through the legal process, as it did for Vick.
- Vick's crimes? Hard to compare, because the gambling association is a big issue for league integrity... but I'd say rape/sexual assault of a 20 year old is worse.
- Domestic violence? Unless it results in extreme injury or death, rape/sexual assault of a 20 year old is worse.
- Gun offenses? Unless the gun was used to attempt or commit murder, rape/sexual assault of a 20 year old is worse.
- Drug offenses/DUIs? Rape/sexual assault of a 20 year old is worse.
- Killing someone else accidentally? Little and Stallworth come to mind as examples. Of course the fact that someone died in those cases makes them worse, but it is noteworthy that in those cases, there was no evil intent as there is in rape/sexual assault.
In general, anything worse than rape/sexual assault would almost certainly be addressed through severe legal system penalties, meaning further suspension isn't applicable (e.g., Carruth). So this is as bad as it gets for an offense that can warrant NFL suspension.
If Ben is charged with rape/sexual assault, I'd expect an indefinite suspension pending legal resolution. If he was subsequently found not guilty or otherwise absolved, I assume his suspension would end up being "time served" to reach that point (i.e., however many games he already missed).
If he is convicted of rape/sexual assault, I assume he'll serve jail time. In that case, Goodell may not tack on a suspension to that "time served," depending on how long it is... but I think it's more likely that he would tack on at least 2 games. Vick got 2 games, and his crimes weren't as bad IMO. (And presumably Tony Dungy won't be in Ben's corner when it comes time for reinstatement...)
IMO if he is guilty, his time away from football, whether due to prison or suspension or both, definitely needs to exceed 4 games. I think it should be *at least* a full season. And that might happen naturally through the legal process, as it did for Vick.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
So how does this affect those in dynasty leagues?
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
I guess you could adjust the scoring system to how many aryan brotherhood tatts he gets, how many shanks in the neck he takes, etcLeroy Hoard said:
werdnoynek
Footballguy
dennis dixon come on up.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
If he's convicted, I hope he's banned for life.
If he isn't, he shouldn't miss a game.
It is a privilidge to play in the NFL, not a right. If you're wraping women, as far as I'm concerned.........BYE! You don't deserve to play in the NFL, ever again.
If he isn't, he shouldn't miss a game.
It is a privilidge to play in the NFL, not a right. If you're wraping women, as far as I'm concerned.........BYE! You don't deserve to play in the NFL, ever again.
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
Why not? If they consent to the wraping, what goes on behind closed doors is not the NFL's business. Did the NFL ban Osi for peeing on a chick? No. Wraping shouldn't be illegal either.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Not that peeing on anyone is a cool thing to do but peeing on someone and wraping them are completely different.If they consent to the wraping IMO it should be the NFL's business and it should be Pittsburgh's business. Personally, I've always thought of the Steelers as one of the classiest run organizations in the NFL. To me, if a guy is out wraping women he's not going to be on my football team and definately not the QB and face of my franchise.
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
Hmm. You might be able to change my opinion. Can you tell me why the NFL would suspend players for consensual wraping?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It's a tip that there isn't a "w" in "raping".
Beetlejuice
Footballguy
Perhaps if Ben wraped more often he wouldn't have the issues that he seems to have.
No glove no love.
No glove no love.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
My answer was >4 games, easily.
Suspended indefinitely if indicted, and I think medical evidence will get an indictment.
Then it depends on whether he goes to trial or pleads to something, and how long this process all takes. I'm a jaded guy and think money and high powered lawyers will minimize the legal damage, but I also think Goodell is more interested in the truth than legal manipulations and will suspend him for a season at least.
Suspended indefinitely if indicted, and I think medical evidence will get an indictment.
Then it depends on whether he goes to trial or pleads to something, and how long this process all takes. I'm a jaded guy and think money and high powered lawyers will minimize the legal damage, but I also think Goodell is more interested in the truth than legal manipulations and will suspend him for a season at least.
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Gopher State
Footballguy
Catbird
Footballguy
A conviction for rape with the use or threat of violence would get him a long prison stretch. He probably won't need a suspension since being in prison and out of football for 8 or 10 years (don't know Georgia law) ought to moot out that issue. A plea agreement resulting in a conviction for something like aggravated assault, first conviction, might bring the sentence to 2-4 years, and then I guess you might argue a suspension to follow? But a conviction for the rape of a 20 year old - depending somewhat on the facts that come to light - would likely put Ben in a catagory where no fan redemption is possible due to PR concerns alone and he can't have any further career. Suspensions, IMO, are the least of his (or his owners) worries.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Shouldn't be surprising. If he's totally innocent and no charges are brought, he really can't be suspended for being a playboy. On the other hand, if he is charged, sexual assault is a serious crime and black eye on the league's image (something the league is very vigilant in trying to maintain), and a puny little suspension of a game or two would give the wrong message to the public that the NFL views something like this as no big deal.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Actually, can't say I agree. We're forgetting that the Steelers may take some action. Or, the fact that he's now been charged twice and if this drags on could make him miss 1-2 games just for his involvement.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
No charges the first time, it is a civil suit. I could sue you right now for anything, it's much different than being charged by authorities. They determined no charges were warranted. In the second instance, he hasn't been charged yet. It's a slippery slope to begin suspending players for their lifestyle if no crimes are involved just because the commish doesn't want the headlines. Again, IF no charges are brought by authorities.
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More than 4 games. If it's an ongoing issue during camp (he's facing trial) I think Mr Goodell will step in and give Ben indefinite time to deal with his own life outside of football until the situation is resolved. I think that's where it's headed.
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Adebisi
Footballguy
Not to worry; that is a somewhat common misperception.
Birdie048
Footballguy
He is not being charged with rape? Because when it first came out....the charges were said to be "sexual manipulation", not rape, assault, or molestation...manipulation. Very different from what I understand on legal issues.
If he gets any charges filed against him, he won't miss time until in the 2011 season...
If he gets any charges filed against him, he won't miss time until in the 2011 season...
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Unless he confesses I doubt that he would be found guilty this year. My guess is that if he is charged the case won't come to trial until well into or even after the season. The question is whether the NFL would wait for the results of the trial before handing out a suspension. I think if he is charged there is a good chance the Ben tries to cop a plea to a lesser offense. If that is the case then he'll be suspended for at least 4 games and possibly for the entire season.If he is charged and held for a trial then he may play this season or the Steelers might give him a leave to "focus on his legal issues". While losing Ben for the season would likely cost the Steelers any shot of a championship, the distractions and the criticism the organization would take would be huge and I am not so sure even a championship would be worth it. I would think the Steelers organization has a pretty good idea on the situation and likely outcome and will act accordingly.
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
Lifetime ban.
Those are someone's daughters, guy.
Those are someone's daughters, guy.
treat88
Footballguy
Once he's actually proved to have committed a crime though right?It's amazing what a woman's accusation can unleash. With absolutely zero evidence given to the public there is already talk of a lifetime ban? Seriously?
Depending on what Ben is charged with and if he is found guilty of it I can see circumstances that might support a ban or suspension, but at this point all we have is an accusation.
Not just in Ben's case, but generally I wish there was a law that if a woman falsely accuses a man of this type of crime she is subject to the same punishment he would have been if found guilty.
The PC pendulum has swung way too far.
Mile High
Footballguy
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
From OP:
If you had to guess, how much time does he miss, if at all
They should also put asterisks next to the SB trophies if he is found guilty. But if he is merely accused we will only be able to question the wins under the normal, referee related issues.
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
Kind of a moot poll here. If he's found innocent, he'll likely only get a game or two for putting the Steelers in a bad light. If he's found guilty, it comes down to what he's guilty of. An ### grab would probably get him a year. An actual rape charge would get him at least five, since that's probably the minimum jail time he would get. And that would pretty much end his career.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Ok, first, steelers homer thru and thru here. Big Ben fan thru and thru here. He is underated here at FBG's, i get it.
This isn't about whether or not u like him, it is about the law. How can anyone say he should be suspended if he is found not guilty? HOW? I can accuse ANYONE of ANYTHING in a lawsuit, and until that specific person is found innocent or guilty, how can u pass judgment on them?
I honestly do understand the hate against the steelers/ben here at FBG's, but putting that aside, it is totally absurd to think ANY player should be suspended cause of accusations. Am I missing something?
This isn't about whether or not u like him, it is about the law. How can anyone say he should be suspended if he is found not guilty? HOW? I can accuse ANYONE of ANYTHING in a lawsuit, and until that specific person is found innocent or guilty, how can u pass judgment on them?
I honestly do understand the hate against the steelers/ben here at FBG's, but putting that aside, it is totally absurd to think ANY player should be suspended cause of accusations. Am I missing something?
Koya
Footballguy
The hate against the Steelers, imo, has to do with:(1) They are a winning organization. Jealousy ensues.
(2) Winning breeds arrogance in a fan base. Not Just pitt, but they are the ones that have won, so people start to get annoyed at a fan base that gets a feeling of entitlement. Again, Jealousy ensues
(3) The Steelers are a "national team" - I have NOTHING against someone raised in Pitt or with strong Pitt ties rooting for the Steelers. But please - you grow up a thousand miles away and are just part of some national bandwagon? This irritates me, justified or not, and I am sure irritates numerous others. I would say the fact that the Steelers win makes this worse (jealousy again), but almost by defination, if the Steelers stunk, would they be one of two "America's Teams"?
Now onto Big Ben
(1) The guy is making millions to play a game - Jealousy
(2) The guy has won two superbowls in a short career (even if one was in spite of his efforts) - Jealousy
(3) The guy is proving to be an idiot, a #####, selfish, stupid, arrogant. Do I know this from personal experience? No. But you read the stories (i.e. motorcycle) and you hear from people who live in Pitt and vouch for the fact that he is kinda dooshy, and hey - you have a rich, bratty 28 year old throwing his fame and weight around while acting like a 20 year old frat boy. FINALLY we have some justified reason for the "hate"
There is nothing u typed that i disagree with, as i stated , " I honestly DO understand the hate...."And i have heard from alot of people that Ben is a dooche in the bars, arrogant, blah blah blah......
The point i am making though, he should not be suspended cause he rides motorcycles, gets drunk in a bar with friends in the offseason, bangs chicks and doesn't call them back or get "accused" of sexual assult. Until they "PROVE" he did it, any chick can get mad at him for him being a dooche/arrogant #####/idiot/etc... and accuse him of touching her in the wrong areas......another tramp that didn't like the way the situation went is mad, at least that is my current thoughts on it.
Koya
Footballguy
My bad, read Don't not do (oops).And I agree, nothing he has done should warrant a league suspension as of yet. That said, he is going down that "bad decision" road and Goddell has made it clear that conviction is not necessary if someone proves, time and time again, that they make poor decisions and continually put themselves - and the NFL - at risk for a bad situation and bad PR.
That said, I dont see how you can state it is too soon to jump to conclusions with Ben, but then say that "another tramp..." - do we know ANYthing about the accuser? Yeah, she may be looking for a pay day. She may also have been sexually assaulted. We don't know. I think its too soon to pass judgement on Ben in regards to sexual assault (not too late to pass judgement on his foolish, selfish dooshiness) and certainly too soon to pass judgement on someone who went to police, dropped out of school and claims to have been sexually assaulted.
(unless by the another tramp comment you were being hypothetical and not discussing this current case).
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
Yes. This is just another case of a ca$h grab, just like the ones other star QBs deal with all the time. Like the time...
Well there was that one instance where... 
Well. I mean there's Kobe, that's gotta count for something.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
A few years ago a woman accused Jerome Bettis of sexual assualt and it turned out the woman's brother put her up to it and it never happened. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Then there was that little situation with the Duke LaCrosse team where everyone was so sure they were guilty.Yes. This is just another case of a ca$h grab, just like the ones other star QBs deal with all the time. Like the time...Well there was that one instance where...
At this point we don't know anything. He may be a full blown rapist or just a dumb$$$ for putting himself in situations that makes himself an easy target or maybe somewhere in between.
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Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
This is my view. If he's not found guilty of anything, he shouldn't be suspended for any games.However, if this guy raped (sorry for the earlier spelling) someone then I'd ban him. My opinion has nothing to do with who did it or what team he is from. Like I said, it's a privilidge to play in the NFL, not a right. I think a guy should be entitled to make a living after committing a crime like that, he should try flipping burgers for 40 hours a week for 10 bucks a hour to see just how good he had it.With that said, if this girl isn't telling the truth, I'd send her to jail for at least a year. You can't be saying that someone raped you and basically destroy someone's credibility. Send her to jail for a year, we'll talk in a year and see if she's still laughing (if he didn't do it)It's one or the other, either he did something he shouldn't have or she is a liar.
Well, after 9 previous arrests, "charged" means smoething totally different in this case, would never even think to compare the two myself.
treat88
Footballguy
If Ben were being charged with rape and there was any type of physical evidence, he never would have been allowed to leave the state of Georgia.
In fact, I have never once heard the term rape associated with Ben's situation anywhere other than on a message board.
No one knows anything to this point, but the speculation just snowballs when people get a hold of information about which they have no clue (nor in many instances the ability to process).
In fact, I have never once heard the term rape associated with Ben's situation anywhere other than on a message board.
No one knows anything to this point, but the speculation just snowballs when people get a hold of information about which they have no clue (nor in many instances the ability to process).
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Goodell has consistently said he'll suspend someone regardless of whether they're found guilty of a crime. Vick was suspended indefinitely before he was found guilty, IIRC. Burress would have been in the Giants hadn't suspended him. Pacman was suspended based on charges. I don't think it's right, but that's the way it's been.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I'm simply pointing out for those saying that he'd have to be proven guilty to receive any type of punishment that it may not necessarily be the case. As I said, there's still a big difference, but when you consider this is the 2nd time that Ben has been accused of the same thing and the bad press it's receiving, he's going to earn himself, at a minimum, a meeting with the commish. While I agree it'd be unlikely that he'd get suspended unless he was found guilty, I also wouldn't be shocked if he did receive 1 game as a result.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Wraping ain't easy, but it sure is fun. 
Let's not rush to judgement here. The facts will come out. I'm sure we'll find out what really happened in da
Let's not rush to judgement here. The facts will come out. I'm sure we'll find out what really happened in da
Feds involved in Vick case. When that happens, the conviction rate is about perfect. Burress had an illegal firearm in a nightclub and shot himself, enough proof for me again. Pacman was suspended after his 9th arrest or so, so not really based on nothing with him. Ben has yet to be conviced of anything at all, in the first case, known that the woman is not a very good source to be beleived. Just sayin....
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I would think that Ben would have to at least be charged with something before he is suspended. If he somehow gets out of this without being charged then I don't think he'll be suspended. I think the point is going to be moot though -- the more I hear the more it sounds to me like he will be at least charged and that if that is the case I do think he may get suspended by the Steelers before the NFL does it.Chase Stuart said:
Arch Stanton
Footballguy
It's tough to tell. Whether or not he did anything he can be suspended so it's possible that charges get filed and he gets 2-4 games with an option for more if a trial goes bad for him. The prosecutors could drag it out so no charges or anything happen until it's too late for him to be suspended for this season. It also depends on what exactly happened. If they went in there voluntalrily and she didn't want to kneel down on the bathroom floor so he pushed her away and she fell then it's a lot different than if they were going at it a bit and he wanted more and threw her to the ground involuntarily to jump on top of her. Neither are good, both make him a scumbag and are criminal acts. I'm not trying to mitigate anything here. Just pointing out that the exact nature of the sexual assault would affect the suspension. I don't know about any other icidents that might go against his character, but I really don't think the Nevada thing should be held against him. Seems pretty clear to me that the chick is lying or is so disturbed she doesn't realize she's lying. False accusations shouldn't be included as anti-character red marks.
I could see him getting 0 to getting a season long breaka nd a new friendship with Vick, who could menotr his return in 3 years.
I could see him getting 0 to getting a season long breaka nd a new friendship with Vick, who could menotr his return in 3 years.
