fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Simple question.
Last edited by a moderator:
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Will Kurt Warner ever be inducted into the HOF? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fridayfrenzy
- Start date
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
simple answer: yes
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Not a simple answer at all.I think this is an answer the voters will struggle with. Warner only has 5 years of good to great years out of his career. It becomes a decision of consistency and cumulative stats vs being awesome for a short span of his carrer.
Last edited by a moderator:
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
He's a lock for the HOF, IMO
David Yudkin
Footballguy
There have been several lengthy threads on this already.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Why? When you compare Warner's cumulative stats, it appears he is not even close to the HOF. What Warner does have is 2 MVPs and a SuperBowl.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Now that we now know Warner's career is done, the conversation will be about facts and not what ifs.
Last edited by a moderator:
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I think you answered your own question. His cumulative stats aren't as high, but that's because of less years playing. The numbers he put up in those years, in addition to the Super Bowls, more than make up for that.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
This is more than almost every QB in the HOF.
Benchwarmers
Footballguy
He should make it, maybe not on first try but will get in.
The Rams and Cardinals sucked before he got to both teams and took both teams to the Superbowl, winning one. He has 2 MVP's and he has 5 Pro Bowls.
The Rams and Cardinals sucked before he got to both teams and took both teams to the Superbowl, winning one. He has 2 MVP's and he has 5 Pro Bowls.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
While true, that is like saying Gayle Sayers #'s are about the same as Ricky Williams' but Ricky had alot of okay years that added up to a good career. Sayers was at the top of his position for a good stint. Warner was one of the best ever (stats wise) for a five year stretch.In my opinion, a virtual lock.
valhallan
Footballguy
Even with only 114 starts, his list of accomplishments rivals the best of the best:
- 2 NFL MVPs (1999, 2001)
- 1 Super Bowl MVP (1999)
- Started in 3 Super Bowls with 2 different teams (only 2nd QB to start with two different teams)
- Holds top 3 passing yardage totals in Super Bowl history
- Fastest player to record 50 300-yard passing games (by a huge margin)
- 2nd player to pass for over 40 TDs in a season, mark still 5th all-time
- 3rd highest season yardage total all-time (4,830 in 1999)
- 5 Pro Bowls
- Only 2nd player to pass for over 100 TDs with two different franchises
- 2 NFL MVPs (1999, 2001)
- 1 Super Bowl MVP (1999)
- Started in 3 Super Bowls with 2 different teams (only 2nd QB to start with two different teams)
- Holds top 3 passing yardage totals in Super Bowl history
- Fastest player to record 50 300-yard passing games (by a huge margin)
- 2nd player to pass for over 40 TDs in a season, mark still 5th all-time
- 3rd highest season yardage total all-time (4,830 in 1999)
- 5 Pro Bowls
- Only 2nd player to pass for over 100 TDs with two different franchises
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Tell your friend to compare their postseason resumes and numbers. That should shut him up.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jewell
Footballguy
There will be plenty of stat based arguments, but don't disregard the human element.
Personality shouldn't play a part in Hall of Fame voting, but the voters are human and, as such, their emotions will sometimes get intertwined with their reasoning. Many of the voters are sportwriters, most of which harp on how great of a person Warner is and how he's such an asset to the league. That coupled with his stats and stellar playoff performance should get him into the Hall.
Personality shouldn't play a part in Hall of Fame voting, but the voters are human and, as such, their emotions will sometimes get intertwined with their reasoning. Many of the voters are sportwriters, most of which harp on how great of a person Warner is and how he's such an asset to the league. That coupled with his stats and stellar playoff performance should get him into the Hall.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Does he have 5 Pro Bowls? I only see 4.1999200020012008
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
He only has 4 pro bowls
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
His rags to riches, in essence, story, as well as the fact that most of the media loves the guy, makes him even more of a lock.
It's 4, but who gives a crap? This year has shown once again how meaningless Pro Bowls are, so that is why they should never be used as HoF criteria.
Last edited by a moderator:
ONLY 4?? The pendulum has swung in the total opposite direction for me. No way he gets in now.
valhallan
Footballguy
I think we're counting alternates this year. And that was hardly the most important factoid of my post..
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Who gives a crap? The HOF is all about comparing players to their peers, and the # of Pro Bowls is certainly something which would be compared.His rags to riches, in essence, story, as well as the fact that most of the media loves the guy, makes him even more of a lock.
It's 4, but who gives a crap? This year has shown once again how meaningless Pro Bowls are, so that is why they should never be used as HoF criteria.
dparker713
Footballguy
He'll get in, mainly because QBs are over represented in the football HOF. You merely need to be very good as a QB to get in the HOF, and he was very good.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Warner is not an alternate this year.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jason Wood
Zoo York
He's as close to a lock as there is among retired, but not yet eligible, players.
valhallan
Footballguy
What's with you? Do you not have the ability to research before posting?http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/...-bowl-2010.html
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Derrick Brooks, Deion Sanders, Marshall Faulk, Larry Allen and Jonathon Ogden (among others) are guaranteed to be first-ballot HOF guys. I'd say they're all closer to locks than Warner, although I'd say the odds are overwhelmingly likely that Warner gets in (while it's impossible that those guys don't all get in).
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
I was assuming a playing alternate. Someone who would replace Brees or Favre.Interesting article on the situation...
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/...pro-bowl-honors
Last edited by a moderator:
Jewell
Footballguy
Fans care about number of Pro-Bowls. Hall of Fame voters realize that Pro-Bowl voting is often an exercise in popularity and name recognition. Hall of Fame voters care more about All-Pro appearances than they do Pro-Bowl appearances.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
The run last year cemented it. Not many QBs took 2 different teams to SBs. That plus the MVP awards leaves no doubt he'll make it.
More SBs than Favre, same number of wins.
More SBs than Favre, same number of wins.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
It's 5 more than Namath ever had
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Vince Young and David Garrard made the Pro Bowl this year (as alternates); Kurt Warner did not. Shall I go on?
phillyphan07
Footballguy
I respect the opinion of people who don't think he deserves to be in the HOF, but this is not an IF he gets in, it WHEN does he get in. I say within his 1st 3 years of eligibility.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
And since it hasn't been mentioned yet (I don't think), he has twice been a first team All-Pro.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
You bet he's going, sooner rather than later. I have no idea what % of the Hall is first ballot inductees, but he's way over the bar IMO.
Yes. First ballot, IMO.
CaptainHook
Footballguy
why shouldn't personality play a part?guys with more colorful stories should absolutely have a better chance of getting into the hall of fame. It is called the hall of FAME after-all not hall of performance or ability
Jewell
Footballguy
Fair enough. I can respect that position. I personally wouldn't take personality into account, but I also wouldn't fault people who take your position... to a degree.I'd be a lot more amenable to using a positive personality to give a borderline guy a bump into the Hall then I would using a negative personality to keep a guy out of the Hall. For instance, give Kurt the bump based on his incredible story and winning personality, but don't prohibit a derserving candidate like T.O. from getting in just because he's one of the biggest donks ever.
CalBear
Footballguy
Warner has career ratings of 65.5% completions, 258 yards/game passing, 7.9 yards/attempt, 5.1% TD percentage.Mcnabb has career ratings of 59.0% completions, 222 yards/game passing, 6.9 yards/attempt, 4.6% TD percentage.The only reason their career totals are close is that McNabb has played in 148 games and Warner has just 125. McNabb's thrown 700 more passes and only has 8 more TDs.To take stats from recent inductions, Warner has many more good seasons than someone like Elway, who only threw for 60% completions three times and never threw for 30 TDs. And he's got at least as impressive a resume as Jim Kelly.It's a silly discussion, Warner is clearly in.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
There's more to a HOF career than just the cumulative numbers. Warner was easily among the top 3 QBs during the era in which he played. Brady, Manning and Warner (not necessarily in that order) are the best 3 QBs to play in the NFL over the past decade.
And if you need the stats:
* 2nd Highest Average Passing Yards Per Game, Career (Min. 100 games) - 260.4 yards/game (Peyton Manning is first)[35]
* Highest completion percentage in a single game (regular season) - 92.3% (24/26) (9/20/09) [36]
* Most Yards Passing, Super Bowl (Game) - 414 yards vs. Tennessee Titans (only QB to pass for 400+ yards in the Super Bowl; also owns 2nd and 3rd highest yardage total in Super Bowl with 377 against the Pittsburgh Steelers and 365 against the New England Patriots). [37][38]
* Most Yards Passing, Super Bowl (Career) - 1,156
* Most Yards Passing, Playoffs (Single Season) - 1,147 (in 2009).
* Most touchdown passes in a single postseason - 11 (in 2009, tied w/Joe Montana, who did it in 1990).
* Highest career completion percentage, Playoffs - 66.5%
* 2nd Highest career passer rating, Playoffs - 104.6 (Bart Starr is first)
* Highest Rate of Games w/300+ Yards Passing (Min. 100 games played) - 45.2% (47/104)[39]
* Most Yards Passing in the first two games of a season (2000) - 827[40]
* Most Consecutive Games w/300+ Yards Passing - 6 (tied w/ Steve Young and Rich Gannon)[41]
* Most Games with a perfect Passer Rating, Career (regular season only) - 3 (tied w/Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger)[42]
* Only NFL quarterback to throw 40 touchdowns and win a Super Bowl in the same season (1999).
* Only quarterback to throw for over 14,000 yards with two different teams (St. Louis Rams, Arizona Cardinals)
* One of only 2 players in NFL history to throw 100 touchdown passes with two different teams (Fran Tarkenton is the other)
* 2nd oldest quarterback to throw for 30 touchdowns in a season - Aged 37 in 2008 (Brett Favre is the oldest, aged 40 in 2009)
* Tied Dan Marino as the fastest player to pass for 30,000 yards. He accomplished this in 114 games.
* Tied Johnny Unitas with 4 consecutive games with a passer rating over 120 (against Brett Favre and the 10-1 Vikings on 12/6/2009)
* Highest average passing yards per game on Monday Night Football - 329.4 (min 7 games)
* Tied Daryle Lamonica with throwing 5 touchdown passes in two different playoff games.
* Warner is the second quarterback to make Super Bowl starts with two different teams joining Craig Morton (1970 Dallas Cowboys and 1977 Denver Broncos). He also became the third quarterback in NFL history to win a conference championship with two different teams, following Craig Morton and Earl Morrall.How does he not belong on the HOF?
And if you need the stats:
* 2nd Highest Average Passing Yards Per Game, Career (Min. 100 games) - 260.4 yards/game (Peyton Manning is first)[35]
* Highest completion percentage in a single game (regular season) - 92.3% (24/26) (9/20/09) [36]
* Most Yards Passing, Super Bowl (Game) - 414 yards vs. Tennessee Titans (only QB to pass for 400+ yards in the Super Bowl; also owns 2nd and 3rd highest yardage total in Super Bowl with 377 against the Pittsburgh Steelers and 365 against the New England Patriots). [37][38]
* Most Yards Passing, Super Bowl (Career) - 1,156
* Most Yards Passing, Playoffs (Single Season) - 1,147 (in 2009).
* Most touchdown passes in a single postseason - 11 (in 2009, tied w/Joe Montana, who did it in 1990).
* Highest career completion percentage, Playoffs - 66.5%
* 2nd Highest career passer rating, Playoffs - 104.6 (Bart Starr is first)
* Highest Rate of Games w/300+ Yards Passing (Min. 100 games played) - 45.2% (47/104)[39]
* Most Yards Passing in the first two games of a season (2000) - 827[40]
* Most Consecutive Games w/300+ Yards Passing - 6 (tied w/ Steve Young and Rich Gannon)[41]
* Most Games with a perfect Passer Rating, Career (regular season only) - 3 (tied w/Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger)[42]
* Only NFL quarterback to throw 40 touchdowns and win a Super Bowl in the same season (1999).
* Only quarterback to throw for over 14,000 yards with two different teams (St. Louis Rams, Arizona Cardinals)
* One of only 2 players in NFL history to throw 100 touchdown passes with two different teams (Fran Tarkenton is the other)
* 2nd oldest quarterback to throw for 30 touchdowns in a season - Aged 37 in 2008 (Brett Favre is the oldest, aged 40 in 2009)
* Tied Dan Marino as the fastest player to pass for 30,000 yards. He accomplished this in 114 games.
* Tied Johnny Unitas with 4 consecutive games with a passer rating over 120 (against Brett Favre and the 10-1 Vikings on 12/6/2009)
* Highest average passing yards per game on Monday Night Football - 329.4 (min 7 games)
* Tied Daryle Lamonica with throwing 5 touchdown passes in two different playoff games.
* Warner is the second quarterback to make Super Bowl starts with two different teams joining Craig Morton (1970 Dallas Cowboys and 1977 Denver Broncos). He also became the third quarterback in NFL history to win a conference championship with two different teams, following Craig Morton and Earl Morrall.How does he not belong on the HOF?
Setting aside Montana's Super Bowl wins, Wanrer's cumulative post season stats are only exceeded by Montana and with far fewer starts than the other top postseason QBs. Warner got it done in the playoffs.Also, his is the rare case where the cumulative stats don't tell the whole story. Late start to his career. High achieving early arc once his career started. Followed by a dip from injury and two teams committing to develop their first round QBs but he still fought his way back to the upper echelons of NFL QBs and finished with great 2.5 year run. Add that type of achievement over adversity to his per start stats/averages, his post-season stats, his three Super Bowl appearances (w/one victory), 2 MVPs, and leadership of possibly the greatest offensive team in the last 20 years...maybe not a lock but his induction is likely. And yes, he was definitely one of the best of his generation so he passes that test, too.
Andy Herron
Footballguy
I don't think there is any question, just as the poll results would indicate.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Only problem is all of those are pretty much seasonal stats as opposed to career.#26 passing yards#26 passing TDsHe makes it in but not on the first ballot.
Last edited by a moderator:
FUBAR
Footballguy
VY's season-to-pro-bowl ratio exceeds Warner's by far.
Yes, Warner will be inducted into the Pro Football HOF in his first year of eligibility.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ford Prefect
Footballguy
How many hall of famers were backups for almost half of their careers?
FUBAR
Footballguy
IF Favre retires, you think he goes in with Favre?
FWIW, Dan Patrick asked Peter King, who has a HOF vote, this week how much the # of Pro Bowls played into HOF voting, and King said basically nil. I think what CrossEyed said about Warner being #3 QB of the decade holds alot of water. Sure he's worked with 2 top sets of WRs, but have you ever seen a QB more accurate hitting receivers in stride? I have not. He took 2 lower echelon teams to SBs during his tenure. 2 different teams to SBs. As great as Manning and Brady are, his run with AZ last yr would be equal to Manning doing such 4 yrs from now and Brady in 5. (Manning I can see. Brady not so much).
Shlon
Footballguy
Cumulative stats? Let's compare him with 3 other Hall of Famers:Troy Aikman: 61.5% completion, 32942 yards, 165 TD, 141 INT, 81.6 QB RatingSteve Young: 64.3% completion, 33124 yards, 232 TD, 107 INT, 96.8 QB RatingJim Kelly: 60.1% completion, 35467 yards, 237 TD, 175 INT, 84.4 QB RatingKurt Warner: 65.5% completion, 32344 yards, 208 TD, 128 INT, 93.7 QB RatingOut of these Steve Young is the best and Kurt Warner is right behind him.Kurt Warner stats are very comparable and his 2 MVP's / 1 Super Bowl MVP / 2nd all time QB Rating in the playoffs / Top 3 passing games in Super Bowl History are just icing on the cake.
