Will Michael Vick be a starting QB in the NFL again? (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

I don't mean "starting" because the QB in front of him got injured.

I mean "starting" as in being the regular # 1 QB on the depth chart.

Judging by Johnny U's poll 11 months ago, the overwhelming majority of the Shark Pool thinks he's done. I don't see it.

To me, it's a no-brainer. If Leornard Little still has a job after killing a woman (then driving drunk AGAIN), Vick will be back. Yes, he was never the best QB on the planet, but he's gotta be one of the 32 best. And it's not like he went away for 8 years. He'll still have his wheels.

 

[Chase Stuart]

The questions of whether a team will sign him, and whether Goodell will enable him to play, are different from the question of whether he's one of the best 32 QBs on the planet.

 

[Raider Nation]

The questions of whether a team will sign him, and whether Goodell will enable him to play, are different from the question of whether he's one of the best 32 QBs on the planet.

They won't be able to keep him out. Let's go back to Leonard Little. Was being involved in a dog killing ring worse than this?

Manslaughter Conviction

After a drunken birthday in 1998, Little crashed into and killed another motorist, Susan Gutweiler in St. Louis, MO. When tested, his blood alcohol level measured 0.19 percent, a level that exceeds the statutory level of intoxication of 0.08 in the state of Missouri. Little received 90 days in jail, four years probation and 1000 hours of community service.

Second arrest

Six years later, Little was again arrested for drunk driving and speeding. The probable cause statement filed by police said Little had bloodshot and watery eyes, smelled of alcohol and failed three sobriety tests. Because of Little's 1999 guilty plea to involuntary manslaughter in his drunken-driving crash case, prosecutors charged him as a persistent offender. This made it a felony case. Little was acquitted of driving while intoxicated, but was convicted only of the misdemeanor speeding charge.

And once Pac Man gets reinstated, Vick's legal team will have a field day if he's not allowed to come back.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

What team trusts its most visible position to one such as Vick? What GM puts his future in Vick's hands. Only a troubled franchise or one with an insane owner goes that route, and Al Davis has his Q.B. of the future.

 

[Raider Nation]

What team trusts its most visible position to one such as Vick? What GM puts his future in Vick's hands. Only a troubled franchise or one with an insane owner goes that route, and Al Davis has his Q.B. of the future.

The guy was dog fighting, which you can be damn sure he won't do again. And he smokes weed from time to time, which might describe half the guys in the NFL. He's not a habitual coke snorter, wife beater, drunk driver, etc. And his teammates LOVED him. When he's reinstated, Lovie looks to his left and sees Rex Grossman... then he looks to his right and sees Kyle Orton. You don't think he'd rather have Vick? What about Childress? Nolan? Edwards? When he comes back, he'll be in demand.

 

[pollardsvision]

i hope so, and i actually think fans will be more forgiving we think because he went to prison for 2 years.

with all the athletes getting in trouble (for hurting human beings) and never really being punished, vick actually paying his debt to society can certainly be spent the right way for him. i think what fans hate the most is the idea that athletes get special treatment and vick is one of the few exceptions to that.

it'd be rough, but a GM could play up the whole "he's paid his debt to society, he's been rehabilitated, blah, blah, blah" thing and i don't think the fans would revolt.

of course, when it comes to dogs, all bets are off (no pun intented).

i never believed vick had it in him to be a great QB, but he's a playmaker that could help a lousy team win some games. he wouldn't be great, but i think he'd be one of the 32 best QBs when he gets out.

 

[Lash]

while what Little did is much more disturbing than what Vick did, he did it under Paul "ignore it and it may go away" Tagliabue

Vick made his mistakes under Roger "The Hammer" Goodell

now saying that, i can foresee him starting again, and i can also see every opposing team's audio visual team playing "Who let the dogs out?" on the loudspeakers when Vick's team comes to town

 

[Raider Nation]

i hope so, and i actually think fans will be more forgiving we think because he went to prison for 2 years.

it'd be rough, but a GM could play up the whole "he's paid his debt to society, he's been rehabilitated, blah, blah, blah" thing and i don't think the fans would revolt.

That's not "playing up" anything... it's the truth. He did pay his debt to society.For the record, I love animals. We have dogs, a cat and a parrot. But I think Vick's sentence was too severe.

 

[pollardsvision]

i hope so, and i actually think fans will be more forgiving we think because he went to prison for 2 years.

it'd be rough, but a GM could play up the whole "he's paid his debt to society, he's been rehabilitated, blah, blah, blah" thing and i don't think the fans would revolt.

That's not "playing up" anything... it's the truth. He did pay his debt to society.For the record, I love animals. We have dogs, a cat and a parrot. But I think Vick's sentence was too severe.

i completely agree with you.

 

[MCguidance]

I am not a Vick fan by an stretch of the imagination. But doing time in jail and losing part of your life - which he himself caused - means, if good enough, should be given a chance to play in the NFL again. If an NFL team think it's worth the gamble, he will be signed. It's that simple.

 

[Tau837]

He is supposed to get out in July 2009, assuming good behavior. But aren't there still pending charges? I believe Virginia decided to wait until after his federal prison time is served to try him for state charges. So worst case is more prison time, best case is probably that the legal matters don't get fully resolved until it is too late for him to potentially play in the 2009 season. And only after all of those legal matters are resolved would Goodell potentially levy league punishment... potentially including a suspension.

Charitably, his earliest possible return is the 2010 season. At that point he will have been out of football for 3 years and will be 30. Given his long layoff, I see it as unlikely that a GM is going to sign him off the street as a starting QB. But will they be willing to take the negative backlash that comes with him just to have him as a backup QB? I doubt it.

So it seems he might need to play somewhere else, both to prove himself worthy on the field and to get some of the media backlash over with. But where can he play? He can't play in the CFL as a convicted felon (visa issues). So the only way he could potentially play himself back into an audition would be in the Arena League... but would his skills translate well to that game? I don't follow the Arena league, but I don't think of it as a good place for runners, whether they be RBs or running QBs, to prove themselves.

I just can't see it happening.

 

[Phurfur]

Vick is not good enough to come in and run a conventional offense. I don't think anyone is going to completely change their offense to accommodate this guy. As an NFL QB he is not that good.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Did something change over the last 11 months? Or is a new poll being started because you didn't agree with the results of the old one?

 

[valhallan]

Two key issues here:

1. How many years until he's cleared to play?

B. How many years until Al Davis buys the farm?

If 1 happens before B, I lean yay. If B happens before 1, I lean naaay.

 

[kylechoffman]

i hope so, and i actually think fans will be more forgiving we think because he went to prison for 2 years.

it'd be rough, but a GM could play up the whole "he's paid his debt to society, he's been rehabilitated, blah, blah, blah" thing and i don't think the fans would revolt.

That's not "playing up" anything... it's the truth. He did pay his debt to society.For the record, I love animals. We have dogs, a cat and a parrot. But I think Vick's sentence was too severe.

No it wasnt too severe. Dog fighting should be illegal and any clown that breeds his/her dog(s) to attack other animals (including humans) should be caged, therefore prison was the right place for him. That being said, I would like to see him in the NFL again, as he is an exciting player to watch. I think his prison sentence was justified for his actions.

Vick is not good enough to come in and run a conventional offense. I don't think anyone is going to completely change their offense to accommodate this guy. As an NFL QB he is not that good.

Slash 2? I doubt he's a qb again. Maybe synder will hire another college coach after the current administration fails and go to an option oriented attack where Vick could do well.

 

[*****]

He is supposed to get out in July 2009, assuming good behavior. But aren't there still pending charges? I believe Virginia decided to wait until after his federal prison time is served to try him for state charges. So worst case is more prison time, best case is probably that the legal matters don't get fully resolved until it is too late for him to potentially play in the 2009 season. And only after all of those legal matters are resolved would Goodell potentially levy league punishment... potentially including a suspension.

This is the key factor. If he has to serve state time later, then he will be out too long to come back. If he avoids the state time, then the only obstacle is Goodell.

 

[Zoomanji]

The questions of whether a team will sign him, and whether Goodell will enable him to play, are different from the question of whether he's one of the best 32 QBs on the planet.

They won't be able to keep him out. Let's go back to Leonard Little. Was being involved in a dog killing ring worse than this?

Manslaughter Conviction

After a drunken birthday in 1998, Little crashed into and killed another motorist, Susan Gutweiler in St. Louis, MO. When tested, his blood alcohol level measured 0.19 percent, a level that exceeds the statutory level of intoxication of 0.08 in the state of Missouri. Little received 90 days in jail, four years probation and 1000 hours of community service.

Second arrest

Six years later, Little was again arrested for drunk driving and speeding. The probable cause statement filed by police said Little had bloodshot and watery eyes, smelled of alcohol and failed three sobriety tests. Because of Little's 1999 guilty plea to involuntary manslaughter in his drunken-driving crash case, prosecutors charged him as a persistent offender. This made it a felony case. Little was acquitted of driving while intoxicated, but was convicted only of the misdemeanor speeding charge.

And once Pac Man gets reinstated, Vick's legal team will have a field day if he's not allowed to come back.

You are totally missing the point.Vick was CONVICTED and will do over a year and close to 2 in jail. Not the 90 days Little got or the jail time that Pacman HASN"T gotten.

Goodell has brought the whole new "not under my watch" idea. What happened to Little was a different regime. Goodell has taken the stance that he will not allow these things.

There is no one to compare Vick to because no one has gone to jail and come back while Goodell has been in charge. Vick will be the first. Get it?

And FWIW, IMO no NFL team will risk the protests to sign a mediocre QB like Vick any way. He's done in the NFL. Best bet is the Arena league unless Canada will let him play. (assuming he can even get into Canada with a felony conviction)

 

[BigRed]

To me, it's a no-brainer. If Leornard Little still has a job after killing a woman (then driving drunk AGAIN), Vick will be back.

Of course. Nobody cares how much of a dirtbag a player is. Little and Lewis are playing so what's a few (OK more like hundreds or thousands, but let's not nit-pick) killed/tortured dogs here and there? yawnBesides it's not his fault. It's his upbringing. [/whoopi]

 

[Chairshot]

He is supposed to get out in July 2009, assuming good behavior. But aren't there still pending charges? I believe Virginia decided to wait until after his federal prison time is served to try him for state charges. So worst case is more prison time, best case is probably that the legal matters don't get fully resolved until it is too late for him to potentially play in the 2009 season. And only after all of those legal matters are resolved would Goodell potentially levy league punishment... potentially including a suspension.Charitably, his earliest possible return is the 2010 season. At that point he will have been out of football for 3 years and will be 30. Given his long layoff, I see it as unlikely that a GM is going to sign him off the street as a starting QB. But will they be willing to take the negative backlash that comes with him just to have him as a backup QB? I doubt it.So it seems he might need to play somewhere else, both to prove himself worthy on the field and to get some of the media backlash over with. But where can he play? He can't play in the CFL as a convicted felon (visa issues). So the only way he could potentially play himself back into an audition would be in the Arena League... but would his skills translate well to that game? I don't follow the Arena league, but I don't think of it as a good place for runners, whether they be RBs or running QBs, to prove themselves.I just can't see it happening.

I feel the same way. I just don't see how the time line will work. At age 30, you have to think that he would have lost something in the speed department, even if he had been playing every year between then and now.Honestly, has their ever been a player that has taken 3 years off and come back to make an impact? Ever?And the fact is, once Vick serves his current prison sentence, it's a very real possibility he could serve additional time or face additional penalties on the state charges. I also find it very likely that Goodell will suspend him for some length of time when he finally is free of all legal charges. The idea that he is forced to take only 3 years off seems unlikely to me - 3 is basically the best case scenario. It could very easily be 4 or 5 when it's all said and done.I just don't see a GM looking at a 30+ year old player that 1) hasn't even seen a football field in 3+ years and 2) will have a Bonds-like media avalanche following him around as attractive. Definitely not "face of the franchise", starting QB attractive.Someone will kick the tires on him and give him the league minimum for a roster spot. Maybe he will still have enough left in the tank to earn real playing time. If he does earn real playing time, he will basically be one of, if not the only guy in the history of the NFL that has done it.For the record, I own 2 pitbulls and really hate what Vick did. He seems to understand what he did was wrong, at this point. The penalties are fair because he broke laws that carry those types of penalties. When he gets out, I think he deserves the same shot to earn a living doing what he loves as anyone else who has served time. I feel no sympathy for him but don't think he should be penalized beyond what the limits of the law allow. He will serve his time and I hope he makes good choices with the time and talent he has left.

 

[Andy Herron]

He is supposed to get out in July 2009, assuming good behavior. But aren't there still pending charges? I believe Virginia decided to wait until after his federal prison time is served to try him for state charges. So worst case is more prison time, best case is probably that the legal matters don't get fully resolved until it is too late for him to potentially play in the 2009 season. And only after all of those legal matters are resolved would Goodell potentially levy league punishment... potentially including a suspension.Charitably, his earliest possible return is the 2010 season. At that point he will have been out of football for 3 years and will be 30. Given his long layoff, I see it as unlikely that a GM is going to sign him off the street as a starting QB. But will they be willing to take the negative backlash that comes with him just to have him as a backup QB? I doubt it.So it seems he might need to play somewhere else, both to prove himself worthy on the field and to get some of the media backlash over with. But where can he play? He can't play in the CFL as a convicted felon (visa issues). So the only way he could potentially play himself back into an audition would be in the Arena League... but would his skills translate well to that game? I don't follow the Arena league, but I don't think of it as a good place for runners, whether they be RBs or running QBs, to prove themselves.I just can't see it happening.

The most sensible post yet.Vick was always more of a showpiece than a quarterback. He was average at best, and the NFL is full of them (average QBs). Even moreso by the time he's eligible to play.That's no. 1. Eligibility.No. 2. He doesn't have the pedigree to step right in to any given situation and pick up where he left off, and certainly not after the long layoff. He's not even close to getting back in that regard. 2010 would be a miracle. I see it as 2011 or beyond, if ever.No. 3. By the time he does regain his eligibility, he'll be into his 30's while there will continually be an influx of college QBs moving into the NFL in the meantime, and many with pricey contracts. Any franchise is going to favor getting these guys on the field as opposed to bringing in a minimum contract ho-hum quarterback with that kind of baggage. There's no sense in that at all. Too much investment in other QBs across the NFL.I simply don't see it happening. Certainly not as a starter. One of the best 32? No way. Not by the time he gets back, certainly.

 

[Big Talker]

What team trusts its most visible position to one such as Vick? What GM puts his future in Vick's hands. Only a troubled franchise or one with an insane owner goes that route, and Al Davis has his Q.B. of the future.

Exactly. An NFL GM would be crazy to make a guy like Vick the face of his organization. The guy is beyond radioactive. He's Chernobyl.

 

[Tau837]

One thing I forgot to mention. IIRC there is a precedent that any suspension from Goodell would take effect only once Vick was signed (i.e., not while he is out of the NFL). So, if Goodell imposes a suspension, a GM would have to not only set aside his layoff, whether he is a fit for their offensive scheme, and the negative baggage to sign him, but also would have to sign him knowing he is suspended for some number of games.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Honestly, has their ever been a player that has taken 3 years off and come back to make an impact? Ever?

Staubach. He took 5 years off between college and the pros.

 

[ultramattman]

Exactly. An NFL GM would be crazy to make a guy like Vick the face of his organization. The guy is beyond radioactive. He's Chernobyl.

This is what makes Vick much different from Leonard Little. It's not the severity of their crimes, but the fact that the QB is the face of the franchise, while a DE is relatively anonymous, especially to casual fans. Plus Vick is one of the most recognizable names in all of sports. Way, WAY too much potential backlash even if there was a significant potential reward, which there really isn't.

 

[Chairshot]

Honestly, has their ever been a player that has taken 3 years off and come back to make an impact? Ever?

Staubach. He took 5 years off between college and the pros.

Nicely done! Love the FBG forums, someone always knows the answer to any question...Still, he went to the Navy, not federal prison and was 27, not 30+ when he came back.At least Vick has one example on his side, though. I think he *will* try a comeback (if only because, like most pro athletes, he really doesn't have any other career skills). I'm interested to see if he can do it.

 

[Raider Nation]

Charitably, his earliest possible return is the 2010 season. At that point he will have been out of football for 3 years and will be 30. Given his long layoff, I see it as unlikely that a GM is going to sign him off the street as a starting QB.

The "out of football part" doesn't concern me too much, not for a guy who made his living with his legs. He won't suddenly forget how to run. And 30 these days is young for a QB. Look at Favre and Garcia, still going strong at 38. Hell, even Vinny played last year at 44.

 

[Tau837]

Charitably, his earliest possible return is the 2010 season. At that point he will have been out of football for 3 years and will be 30. Given his long layoff, I see it as unlikely that a GM is going to sign him off the street as a starting QB.

The "out of football part" doesn't concern me too much, not for a guy who made his living with his legs. He won't suddenly forget how to run. And 30 these days is young for a QB. Look at Favre and Garcia, still going strong at 38. Hell, even Vinny played last year at 44.

My point was that being out of football for 3 years means no GM is going to sign him as a starter at QB. And the negative backlash isn't worth it to sign him as a backup. So I don't see his avenue to getting signed. I outlined this in the rest of my post you cut off.Also, I didn't say 30 is old for a QB. But it's not like he will be a young player at that point. And I'm not sure why you would in one sentence say he made his living with his legs and then cite Favre, Garcia, and Testaverde, guys who made their living with their arms and heads, as examples to bolster your case.

 

[David Yudkin]

One thing I forgot to mention. IIRC there is a precedent that any suspension from Goodell would take effect only once Vick was signed (i.e., not while he is out of the NFL). So, if Goodell imposes a suspension, a GM would have to not only set aside his layoff, whether he is a fit for their offensive scheme, and the negative baggage to sign him, but also would have to sign him knowing he is suspended for some number of games.

IIRC, Vick IS SIGNED . . . and still a member of the Falcons. I do not recall (or finmd anything to suggest) that he ever was released by the Falcons. As far as I know, the team still had Vick on their salary cap ledger as they were fearful that they would have to take a huge salary cap hit if they released him. I don't know if they ever actually cut him, but I do not believe so.FWIW, Vick is still listed on the roster on both the official NFL and Falcons web sites. So I'm guessing he is still under contract.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Vick is not good enough to come in and run a conventional offense. I don't think anyone is going to completely change their offense to accommodate this guy. As an NFL QB he is not that good.

Either is Matt Leinert, Rex Grossman and a bunch of others. When you have crap like that in the league, you as an owner would be willing to at least see what Mike Vick can still do.I think he'll be playing QB again in the NFL. Do I think he'll lead a team to the SB....no I don't. But when I see some of the current guys getting shots at QB, it's not a stretch at all to see Mike Vick getting another shot just a few years later.As far as Goodell, he'll let him play. He served his time. Is there are rule in the NFL that doesn't allow you to play in it if you committed a felony?

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Charitably, his earliest possible return is the 2010 season. At that point he will have been out of football for 3 years and will be 30. Given his long layoff, I see it as unlikely that a GM is going to sign him off the street as a starting QB.

The "out of football part" doesn't concern me too much, not for a guy who made his living with his legs. He won't suddenly forget how to run. And 30 these days is young for a QB. Look at Favre and Garcia, still going strong at 38. Hell, even Vinny played last year at 44.

My point was that being out of football for 3 years means no GM is going to sign him as a starter at QB. And the negative backlash isn't worth it to sign him as a backup. So I don't see his avenue to getting signed. I outlined this in the rest of my post you cut off.Also, I didn't say 30 is old for a QB. But it's not like he will be a young player at that point. And I'm not sure why you would in one sentence say he made his living with his legs and then cite Favre, Garcia, and Testaverde, guys who made their living with their arms and heads, as examples to bolster your case.

Most of your post makes sense accept you saying since he was out of football for 3 years means no GM is going to sign him as a starter. How do you know? 3 years isn't that long and as you said, he's not that old.If he's given a chance, he'll be brought in and he'll compete for the job. He'll have to earn the starting role, just like any QB has to do.

 

[David Yudkin]

As far as Goodell, he'll let him play. He served his time. Is there are rule in the NFL that doesn't allow you to play in it if you committed a felony?

I think there are several issues being discussed in the thread. I think he will be allowed to play at some point, but I don't think either the legal sysem or the NFL will make it easy for him to play.1) Vick will have to stand trial by the Commonwealth/State of Virgina AFTER he gets out of federal prison. IIRC, Goodell stated the NFL will reconsider what to do with Vick after the legal and penal system was done with him.2) Once Vick is all done with his second court case (and additional jail time), Goodell could reinstate him ASAP . . . or he could drag his feet (like with Pac Man) and drag it out even longer. He could also elect to extend his suspension.3) Once all of Vick's time has been completed in however many prison systems and all his NFL suspensions are served (there may be rehabilitation ordering by the NFL to make sure he has learned his lesson as well), and assuming that Vick is not 40, the Falcons would still own his rights (Vick is signed through the 2014 season). The Falcons could elect to release him and apparently take a cap hit. Or another team could trade for his rights/contract. Or at some point wait for his release and sign him. With the Falcons holding on to him for a long time to even get to that position, I would not rule out Vick staying a Falcon but either having to be a backup or switch positions.4) The signing him part is the challenge, as what team will want to take the PR hit by adding him on and take what's sure to be a media and fan frenzy to sign him? While in theory Vick would have served his debt to society, I'm not sure the animal lovers/protesters would go away. I think Vick will be received as well as Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens is received in baseball right now.So will he be allowed, at some point, to play. Yes. BUt we'll have to wait and see if realistically he'll ever get a shot again.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Honestly, has their ever been a player that has taken 3 years off and come back to make an impact? Ever?

Staubach. He took 5 years off between college and the pros.

Nicely done! Love the FBG forums, someone always knows the answer to any question...Still, he went to the Navy, not federal prison and was 27, not 30+ when he came back.At least Vick has one example on his side, though. I think he *will* try a comeback (if only because, like most pro athletes, he really doesn't have any other career skills). I'm interested to see if he can do it.

I agree. Also, Staubach was likely more disciplined and probably more determined than Vick may be. The one thing Vick does have, however, is 6 years experience in the NFL. So while he'll be 30, he'll be 30 with 6 years NFL experience rather than a 27 y.o. rookie.

 

[Ripleys]

I'd think his QB days are over. But maybe he gets a shot at as a RB somewhere?

 

[msommer]

3) Once all of Vick's time has been completed in however many prison systems and all his NFL suspensions are served (there may be rehabilitation ordering by the NFL to make sure he has learned his lesson as well), and assuming that Vick is not 40, the Falcons would still own his rights (Vick is signed through the 2014 season). The Falcons could elect to release him and apparently take a cap hit. Or another team could trade for his rights/contract. Or at some point wait for his release and sign him. With the Falcons holding on to him for a long time to even get to that position, I would not rule out Vick staying a Falcon but either having to be a backup or switch positions.

Aren't the Falcons suing him to get the bonus back? If so and if he pays there would be no cap hit I would think.Despite that I doubt we'll see Vick getting another NFL contract in his lifetime.

 

[David Yudkin]

3) Once all of Vick's time has been completed in however many prison systems and all his NFL suspensions are served (there may be rehabilitation ordering by the NFL to make sure he has learned his lesson as well), and assuming that Vick is not 40, the Falcons would still own his rights (Vick is signed through the 2014 season). The Falcons could elect to release him and apparently take a cap hit. Or another team could trade for his rights/contract. Or at some point wait for his release and sign him. With the Falcons holding on to him for a long time to even get to that position, I would not rule out Vick staying a Falcon but either having to be a backup or switch positions.

Aren't the Falcons suing him to get the bonus back? If so and if he pays there would be no cap hit I would think.Despite that I doubt we'll see Vick getting another NFL contract in his lifetime.

Cap hits for suspended players is out of my jurisdiction and area of expertise. I do not that in general real dollars and cap dollars are not always recorded in the same manner.But I thought a federal judege ruled in Feb and reaffirmed in Apr that Vick could keep his signing bonus money. Were those rulings later overturned?

 

[David Yudkin]

In poking around, it looks like teams with a suspended player get a free pass on their salary cap wise but still have to eat the cap hit for signing bonuses. For example, if a player were suspended for a year, had a 4-year deal, and a $10 million signing bonus, in most cases they would have to eat $2.5 against the cap (unless they split the signing bonus in some other manner such as all in the original year of the contract).

 

[Tau837]

3) Once all of Vick's time has been completed in however many prison systems and all his NFL suspensions are served (there may be rehabilitation ordering by the NFL to make sure he has learned his lesson as well), and assuming that Vick is not 40, the Falcons would still own his rights (Vick is signed through the 2014 season). The Falcons could elect to release him and apparently take a cap hit. Or another team could trade for his rights/contract. Or at some point wait for his release and sign him. With the Falcons holding on to him for a long time to even get to that position, I would not rule out Vick staying a Falcon but either having to be a backup or switch positions.

Aren't the Falcons suing him to get the bonus back? If so and if he pays there would be no cap hit I would think.Despite that I doubt we'll see Vick getting another NFL contract in his lifetime.

Cap hits for suspended players is out of my jurisdiction and area of expertise. I do not that in general real dollars and cap dollars are not always recorded in the same manner.But I thought a federal judege ruled in Feb and reaffirmed in Apr that Vick could keep his signing bonus money. Were those rulings later overturned?

Judge: Vick Can Keep $20M Signing Bonus

(CBS/AP) Jailed quarterback Michael Vick can keep nearly $20 million in bonus money he received from the Atlanta Falcons following a ruling Monday by a federal judge.

The Falcons sought to recover the bonuses after Vick pleaded guilty to federal charges in a dogfighting operation. The bonuses were paid from 2004-2007.

A special master ruled in October that the Falcons were entitled to recover the bonuses. The Falcons argued that Vick used proceeds from a contract he signed in 2004 to finance his illicit activities.

But U.S. District Judge David Doty of Minneapolis ruled that the Falcons' recovering the bonus money would violate the NFL collective bargaining agreement. The agreement does not allow signing bonuses to be forfeited for years a player has already performed.

Arguments turned on interpretations of the collective bargaining agreement. At a November hearing, a union attorney argued that Vick's "roster bonus" should be treated the same as a "performance bonus," which can't be forfeited under the agreement. The league maintained that the roster bonus should be treated like a "signing bonus allocation," which could be forfeited.

Doty ruled that once Vick made the Falcons' 80-man roster, he earned the roster bonuses and the team cannot demand their forfeiture.

Kind of hard to believe he got to keep the $20M and yet is filing bankruptcy...I can't see Vick staying on the Falcons, unless Ryan flops between now and when Vick is reinstated. It was fairly clear that Blank felt betrayed by Vick, and IMO the only reason he's still on the roster is because of the salary cap implications. Obviously, Atlanta has now moved on at QB and thinks it has its QB of the future in Ryan. Just like Green Bay doensn't need Favre on the sidelines getting paid $12M while trying to establish Rodgers as their QB, the Falcons won't need Vick on their sideline making a lot of money under his current contract while Ryan enters his third year (if we're talking 2010).

And I don't see a team trading anything for him and accepting his current contract, either. (I don't know the contract details, but I assume it calls for non-trivial annual salaries.) So I suspect if and when he gets reinstated, he'll get cut. Then we're back to the same general discussion we've been having.

 

[pollardsvision]

i've bashed vick's abilities as much as the next guy, but it seems like people on here quickly forget just how effective vick can really be.

he's inaccurate, but all he's ever done is win football games.

i don't remember his exact W/L record, but it stands up to anyone who's not named brady or manning. he was unconventional and would have never been a top 5 QB in the league, but he won alot of football games with sub-par talent around him. there many, many starting QBs in the league that could not have won games on those vick falcon teams.

whether he comes back at 30 or 31, he should still be able to run. he'll have missed out on alot of mileage and alot hits taken in his time away.

when/if he'll be reinstated is very unclear. his physical conditioning at that time is unknown, but if he keeps himself in shape during all of this (which i think is possible), there's no doubt in my mind that he'd make a handful of teams better.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Far to much risk to make him a club's Q.B. Q.B. remains the key person in the organization and Vick has proven untrustworthy of such responsibility. I do believe he will be signed as a W.R./K.R. who can be his team's emergency Q.B. as well.

He is too lightly built for R.B. duty, though that may change. He also would intrigue some defensive coaches for his closing ability in nickle or dime packages. Football=yes. Starting Q.B. face of the franchise= no.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think absolutely he's a starter again. He's a one in a million talent and there will be a team that will take a chance on him.

J

 

[Interseptopus]

Looks like the same Shark Pool voting on the same poll from 11 months ago has spoken yet again...

Do you "see it" yet??

 

[Andy Herron]

Looks like the same Shark Pool voting on the same poll from 11 months ago has spoken yet again...Do you "see it" yet??

Oh ya, he's done.But imagine for a moment if he did come back.I wonder how many dog-lovin' defensive linemen who may or may not be dog owners would be "licking their chops" at a chance to get a good shot on him?Regardless of how much agility Vick may have lost, he'd get pummeled and wouldn't last long. ETA: I think most anybody would gladly take a penalty for roughing the QB, etc.

 

[Tau837]

I think the argument that Vick wins games, which makes his unconventional style okay, lost a lot of steam over his last two seasons (2005-06). He was healthy during that stretch, playing 31 games. The team's record in those games was 15-16, and they did not make the playoffs either season. He did not seem to progress as a passer in his 5th & 6th seasons (and 3rd & 4th seasons with 15+ games as a starter) would be expected to... some would go so far as to say he regressed.

Even going further back, he was 11-9-1 as a starter in his first 3 seasons, including 1-1 in the playoffs. Very solid, but combine that with his last 2 seasons, and you get a mediocre 26-25-1 record. It is only one season, 2004, that really stands out, as the team went 11-5, and 11-4 in the games Vick started, then went on to a 1-1 postseason record.

I'm not saying that he should be criticized for not winning more, just that he shouldn't be praised as if he was responsible for his team winning a lot of games.

Now, I argued plenty of times on these boards that I thought Vick drew an unfair amount of criticism for his passing ability (or lack thereof), because I felt Mora failed to employ an offensive system that fit his skillset, and I also felt Vick had a poor receiving corps. But I think his overall performance in 2005-06, combined with the layoff and baggage, makes him no longer worthy as a starting QB.

And for those who think he can come back at another position, that would not be a trivial transition - he would be a 30+ year old coming off a long layoff from NFL training/nutrition and game conditions... and having to learn a position that as far as I know he never played before... while in a harsh spotlight. Again, I fail to see the upside for any team to sign him into that situation with the associated negativity it would bring.

 

[Raider Nation]

I think absolutely he's a starter again. He's a one in a million talent and there will be a team that will take a chance on him.

 

[pollardsvision]

I think the argument that Vick wins games, which makes his unconventional style okay, lost a lot of steam over his last two seasons (2005-06). He was healthy during that stretch, playing 31 games. The team's record in those games was 15-16, and they did not make the playoffs either season. He did not seem to progress as a passer in his 5th & 6th seasons (and 3rd & 4th seasons with 15+ games as a starter) would be expected to... some would go so far as to say he regressed.Even going further back, he was 11-9-1 as a starter in his first 3 seasons, including 1-1 in the playoffs. Very solid, but combine that with his last 2 seasons, and you get a mediocre 26-25-1 record. It is only one season, 2004, that really stands out, as the team went 11-5, and 11-4 in the games Vick started, then went on to a 1-1 postseason record.I'm not saying that he should be criticized for not winning more, just that he shouldn't be praised as if he was responsible for his team winning a lot of games.Now, I argued plenty of times on these boards that I thought Vick drew an unfair amount of criticism for his passing ability (or lack thereof), because I felt Mora failed to employ an offensive system that fit his skillset, and I also felt Vick had a poor receiving corps. But I think his overall performance in 2005-06, combined with the layoff and baggage, makes him no longer worthy as a starting QB.And for those who think he can come back at another position, that would not be a trivial transition - he would be a 30+ year old coming off a long layoff from NFL training/nutrition and game conditions... and having to learn a position that as far as I know he never played before... while in a harsh spotlight. Again, I fail to see the upside for any team to sign him into that situation with the associated negativity it would bring.

i get your point. i'm not saying vick was or ever will be a great QB. he's just a QB who can win games in the NFL (which isn't easy). the falcons won 9 total games in the 2 years before they drafted vick, 5 games in '03 during his injury season, and became the laughing stock of the league last year without him. with him, they were always a competitor and a factor in the nfc south, with a great '04 season.the biggest problem with vick, aside from being inaccurate, is that he's always be a huge injury risk. not great, but the chicago bears, for example, would be an nfc north contender with michael vick.

 

[David Yudkin]

As for his career record, by my math he is 37-29-1 (.560) as a starter in the regular season and 2-2 (.500) in the post-season.

 

[pollardsvision]

Looks like the same Shark Pool voting on the same poll from 11 months ago has spoken yet again...Do you "see it" yet??

Oh ya, he's done.But imagine for a moment if he did come back.I wonder how many dog-lovin' defensive linemen who may or may not be dog owners would be "licking their chops" at a chance to get a good shot on him?Regardless of how much agility Vick may have lost, he'd get pummeled and wouldn't last long. ETA: I think most anybody would gladly take a penalty for roughing the QB, etc.

i assume you are saying this, at least partly, in jest, but if you are serious, that's ludicrous.i seriously doubt that many NFL players are as outraged about dogfighting as the typical fan is. i could be wrong, but i don't think i am.

 

[UnknownCoach]

Vick no longer has youth on his side. So he's probably not going to get many looks as a long term solution. He'll probably land a starting job with only a short term opportunity to succeed. A defensive minded east coast team like Chicago, Minnessota, Buffalo, Baltimore, or even Tampa should give him a shot.

 

[Andy Herron]

Looks like the same Shark Pool voting on the same poll from 11 months ago has spoken yet again...Do you "see it" yet??

Oh ya, he's done.But imagine for a moment if he did come back.I wonder how many dog-lovin' defensive linemen who may or may not be dog owners would be "licking their chops" at a chance to get a good shot on him?Regardless of how much agility Vick may have lost, he'd get pummeled and wouldn't last long. ETA: I think most anybody would gladly take a penalty for roughing the QB, etc.

i assume you are saying this, at least partly, in jest, but if you are serious, that's ludicrous.i seriously doubt that many NFL players are as outraged about dogfighting as the typical fan is. i could be wrong, but i don't think i am.

Yes, of course in jest. I certainly don't wish any real harm to Vick.As to the other, NFL players are just as human as fans are, and I'm sure there are some who are just as outraged as anybody else would be.Defenders have gone after QBs for far less, outside of the obvious as far as simply playing the game.

 

[moderated]

i will be shocked if he isn't in the NFL again.