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Will the Jets move to 1.1 and get Bush (1 Viewer)

"Probably not. That seems too steep. Abraham is a pro bowl caliber player. Mabey a 4th"

I'd do it - where can we get an extra 4th rd pick? Oh yeah -

#4, Abe and Herm for Bush!

:P

 
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"Probably not. That seems too steep. Abraham is a pro bowl caliber player. Mabey a 4th"

I'd do it - where can we get an extra 4th rd pick? Oh yeah -

#4, Abe and Herm for Bush!

:P
yeah but would you be willing to give up the Jets 1st,2nd and Abe?
 
The big question is how much value does Abraham have. Obviously he's very talented and does something that every team needs...get after the QB. Yet, he's also had some personality/off-field issues as well as injuries. Add in the fact that whoever gets him will have to pay very large bucks and his value may not be what many perceive.

IMO in a salary cap league you need to make sure that your big money players are either leaders or guys that don't rock the boat. Right now I don't think Abraham fits into either category. I'm not saying that teams wouldn't want the guy. They will. What I'm saying is they may not want him that badly if they also have to pony up a monster contract which probably will be the case.

 
Is this the third year in a row the Jets have tried to shop Abraham?
2nd year. His trade value isn't that high, mostly because of the salary cap implications that would ensue, and the fact that every team knows that the Jets can't afford him, and he wants out of New York in a bad way. I don't think he really has personality issues or a history of "rocking the boat" as Boston stated in an above post. There has been speculation among media, and even teamates that he put his contract before the team though. I see him as a pro bowl talent with 2nd rd draft pick value
 
If the numbers work, Houston would do well to take a trade like this. They get Abraham, D'Brick and a later round pick. That collectively cures more ills than merely drafting Bush. (one man's opinion)

 
If they can guarantee themselves one of Leinart,Young,Bush,Ferguson. Why would you trade up? Thats foolish
Not if you believe that Bush is by far the best player in this draft
 
If the only reason the Jets are shopping Abraham is money and not any of those other reasons, I would listen if I were Houston.

How Abraham is valued matters greatly as to the picks added top the deal.

If you think Abraham is valued as 1st round top 10 player then no picks, but saying if he is worth a mid-1st rounder probably means like adding a 3rd or 4th.

If he valued as a 2nd rounder then the trade becomes expensive as the Jets would have to do some version of a Abraham, 1st, 2nd, 4th.

While I get the Jets need cap room, I would question them trading multiple picks to get Bush.

 
The Texans would be very tempted. I think they want D'Brick and to get Abrahams also would be a huge plus. But I think the Jets take Leinart and the Bush fall will start.

 
The Texans would be very tempted. I think they want D'Brick and to get Abrahams also would be a huge plus. But I think the Jets take Leinart and the Bush fall will start.
I think the Texans would prefer two #1 picks and let the Jets keep Abraham.
 
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#4 doesn't guarantee Houston Brick.

I don't think there is any way Houston would take that deal, the #1 pick will cost quite a bit more.

Abraham is a malcontent who wants huge money, his value pick wise isn't that high.

 
Texans aren't going to move down unless it's a sweetheart of a deal.

1.4 + Abraham isn't that.
Does anyone recall what the Giants gave the Chargers for Eli?
An extra 1st, 3rd, and 5th.But those were extreme cirmumstances since the Chargers knew how badly the Giants wanted Eli.

 
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The Texans would be very tempted. I think they want D'Brick and to get Abrahams also would be a huge plus. But I think the Jets take Leinart and the Bush fall will start.
I think the Texans would prefer to #1 picks and let the Jets keep Abraham.
exactly. It's weird seeing people think Abraham is worthy of a trade down for Houston virtually all by himself. It's going to take 2 1sts plus to move up to number one if you are outside the top 3. Abraham is not worth a 1st rounder, if he was he would've been shipped out already.
 
The Texans would be very tempted. I think they want D'Brick and to get Abrahams also would be a huge plus. But I think the Jets take Leinart and the Bush fall will start.
I think the Texans would prefer to #1 picks and let the Jets keep Abraham.
exactly. It's weird seeing people think Abraham is worthy of a trade down for Houston virtually all by himself. It's going to take 2 1sts plus to move up to number one if you are outside the top 3. Abraham is not worth a 1st rounder, if he was he would've been shipped out already.
If Abraham isn't worth a 1st-rounder, then there's not more than 20 players on NFL rosters today who are worth a first-rounder. Sure, he's not worth a top-10 pick, but you can't honestly tell me that a bona-fide, every-down DE who puts up double-digit sack numbers and is on the right side of 30 isn't worth a first-rounder. As for the whole malcontent deal, I don't see it - he had an alcohol incident in like his 2nd year in the league. He has never been suspended by the league, he completed his alcohol counseling, and he's never shown up in the local papers for any misbehavior. He doesn't have a practice ethic either. He just wants more money than the team will give him. That's not a malcontent in my book.
 
If Abraham isn't worth a 1st-rounder, then there's not more than 20 players on NFL rosters today who are worth a first-rounder. Sure, he's not worth a top-10 pick, but you can't honestly tell me that a bona-fide, every-down DE who puts up double-digit sack numbers and is on the right side of 30 isn't worth a first-rounder. As for the whole malcontent deal, I don't see it - he had an alcohol incident in like his 2nd year in the league. He has never been suspended by the league, he completed his alcohol counseling, and he's never shown up in the local papers for any misbehavior. He doesn't have a practice ethic either. He just wants more money than the team will give him. That's not a malcontent in my book.
low first rounder at best. A 2nd rounder may be more reasonable.Edited to add - Big time defensive ends like Abraham are about as equal to young shut-down corners. What did Patrick Surtain go for?

 
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Here is the trade that sent a very young, very talented and well recognized high-quality locker room CB to the Cheifs.

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have agreed to send their second-round draft choice and swap picks in the fifth-round with the Miami Dolphins in exchange for CB Patrick Surtain. The Chiefs, in turn, have also agreed to terms on a new seven-year deal with Surtain. The two sides still need to finalize paper work on the deal and it is also contingent upon Surtain passing a physical with Kansas City.
 
The Texans would be very tempted. I think they want D'Brick and to get Abrahams also would be a huge plus. But I think the Jets take Leinart and the Bush fall will start.
I think the Texans would prefer to #1 picks and let the Jets keep Abraham.
exactly. It's weird seeing people think Abraham is worthy of a trade down for Houston virtually all by himself. It's going to take 2 1sts plus to move up to number one if you are outside the top 3. Abraham is not worth a 1st rounder, if he was he would've been shipped out already.
Tell that to the Jets fans who thought that the Chargers should trade them Rivers straight up.
 
Here is the trade that sent a very young, very talented and well recognized high-quality locker room CB to the Cheifs.

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have agreed to send their second-round draft choice and swap picks in the fifth-round with the Miami Dolphins in exchange for CB Patrick Surtain. The Chiefs, in turn, have also agreed to terms on a new seven-year deal with Surtain. The two sides still need to finalize paper work on the deal and it is also contingent upon Surtain passing a physical with Kansas City.
The cap implications of a player can make a huge difference in what a team will take for him. Surtain was likely to get cut if the Dolphins couldn't trade him and basically the Chiefs offered a 2nd round pick so that they would be assured of getting him. That's about what Abraham is worth given his contract with the Jets and the fact that the other teams know the Jets are in a bind.
 
The Texans would be very tempted. I think they want D'Brick and to get Abrahams also would be a huge plus. But I think the Jets take Leinart and the Bush fall will start.
I think the Texans would prefer to #1 picks and let the Jets keep Abraham.
exactly. It's weird seeing people think Abraham is worthy of a trade down for Houston virtually all by himself. It's going to take 2 1sts plus to move up to number one if you are outside the top 3. Abraham is not worth a 1st rounder, if he was he would've been shipped out already.
Tell that to the Jets fans who thought that the Chargers should trade them Rivers straight up.
I ussually cut Jets' fans some slack because they live in Never-never-land (New York) where the local talk radio shows play fantasy baseball every day in regards to who the Yankees should pick up.
 
Here is the trade that sent a very young, very talented and well recognized high-quality locker room CB to the Cheifs.

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have agreed to send their second-round draft choice and swap picks in the fifth-round with the Miami Dolphins in exchange for CB Patrick Surtain. The Chiefs, in turn, have also agreed to terms on a new seven-year deal with Surtain. The two sides still need to finalize paper work on the deal and it is also contingent upon Surtain passing a physical with Kansas City.
The cap implications of a player can make a huge difference in what a team will take for him. Surtain was likely to get cut if the Dolphins couldn't trade him and basically the Chiefs offered a 2nd round pick so that they would be assured of getting him. That's about what Abraham is worth given his contract with the Jets and the fact that the other teams know the Jets are in a bind.
Agreed - I personally thought the topic was a little whacky since I don't see the Jets trading UP at all and spending that kind of money with so many holes and so little money.But, since Jet fans are being called out in this thread - Put me down as a Jet fan who sees little value in Abe and can actually see him being released.

And I never thought the Rivers trade talk ever had legs either while that thread went on and on... Why would the Chargers trade the QB they have locked up and keep the injured guy with no contract?

 
Here is the trade that sent a very young, very talented and well recognized high-quality locker room CB to the Cheifs.

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have agreed to send their second-round draft choice and swap picks in the fifth-round with the Miami Dolphins in exchange for CB Patrick Surtain. The Chiefs, in turn, have also agreed to terms on a new seven-year deal with Surtain. The two sides still need to finalize paper work on the deal and it is also contingent upon Surtain passing a physical with Kansas City.
The cap implications of a player can make a huge difference in what a team will take for him. Surtain was likely to get cut if the Dolphins couldn't trade him and basically the Chiefs offered a 2nd round pick so that they would be assured of getting him. That's about what Abraham is worth given his contract with the Jets and the fact that the other teams know the Jets are in a bind.
Agreed - I personally thought the topic was a little whacky since I don't see the Jets trading UP at all and spending that kind of money with so many holes and so little money.But, since Jet fans are being called out in this thread - Put me down as a Jet fan who sees little value in Abe and can actually see him being released.

And I never thought the Rivers trade talk ever had legs either while that thread went on and on... Why would the Chargers trade the QB they have locked up and keep the injured guy with no contract?
Abrahams trade value is no doubt diminished, but there is no way the Jets will release him either
 
Is this the third year in a row the Jets have tried to shop Abraham?
2nd year. His trade value isn't that high, mostly because of the salary cap implications that would ensue, and the fact that every team knows that the Jets can't afford him, and he wants out of New York in a bad way. I don't think he really has personality issues or a history of "rocking the boat" as Boston stated in an above post. There has been speculation among media, and even teamates that he put his contract before the team though. I see him as a pro bowl talent with 2nd rd draft pick value
There have been questions about his character. He has had some issues about his drinking and they were none to happy about his attitude two years ago when there were questions about how badly he wanted to come back from his injury. Whether those are still lingering issues, blown out of proportion or still legit issues I do not know. I do know any team that deals for him with the intention of giving him the monster deal he's been trying to get for two years will do their homework on him. He's asking for too much money not to.
 
Abrahams trade value is no doubt diminished, but there is no way the Jets will release him either
with a new head coach..."new sheriff" in town type of moves are always possibleagain, 1.04 and abe for 1.01 isn't enough to get it done

1.04, abe, and a 2nd...maybe

 
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Abrahams trade value is no doubt diminished, but there is no way the Jets will release him either
with a new head coach..."new sheriff" in town type of moves are always possibleagain, 1.04 and abe for 1.01 isn't enough to get it done

1.04, abe, and a 2nd...maybe
I don't know the details of the Texans cap situation, but if they have the money and switch the the 4-3 then Abraham would be a great addition. A DL of Abraham and Babin at DE with Travis Johnson and Seth Payne at DT would be very tough. It would also let Greenwood play his natural position of MLB. I think it would help the Texans more to have Abraham than a 2nd round pick (even a high one) if they can afford him.
 
Ya, I'll bet Jets fans would like that deal: 1.1 for 1.4 and Abraham

Why don't you ask the Texans to throw in David Carr and Andre Johnson also.

 
Ya, I'll bet Jets fans would like that deal: 1.1 for 1.4 and Abraham

Why don't you ask the Texans to throw in David Carr and Andre Johnson also.
It all depends on what teams really want Bush and what they are willing to give up, which right now doesn't look like a lot. The Jets could also throw in another pick, like a 3rd or 4th, but the Texans would be better off even with the #4 and Abraham. Trading down helps them in a couple ways - they get the player they really need (D'Brick) and the #4 pick is much cheaper than the #1. Abraham is also a player that would help them a lot since they are going back to the 4-3.
 
Ya, I'll bet Jets fans would like that deal: 1.1 for 1.4 and Abraham

Why don't you ask the Texans to throw in David Carr and Andre Johnson also.
Not a Jets fan, but If I was I'd be thrilled to get Bush to replace Martin, and get rid of Abraham's baggage and big cap #. 1.01 for 1.04, 3.04, and Abraham sounds about right. If I was Marinelli (and I'm not, which is why I'm posting here instead of sleeping in a nice bed in a huge house) I'd have Bush spelling Martin every chance I got, and have Bush split out when Martin was in. I'd probably try to find a way to play him at FS too ;)

 
Ya, I'll bet Jets fans would like that deal:  1.1 for 1.4 and Abraham

Why don't you ask the Texans to throw in David Carr and Andre Johnson also.
Not a Jets fan, but If I was I'd be thrilled to get Bush to replace Martin, and get rid of Abraham's baggage and big cap #. 1.01 for 1.04, 3.04, and Abraham sounds about right. If I was Marinelli (and I'm not, which is why I'm posting here instead of sleeping in a nice bed in a huge house) I'd have Bush spelling Martin every chance I got, and have Bush split out when Martin was in. I'd probably try to find a way to play him at FS too ;)
Interesting.
 
Ya, I'll bet Jets fans would like that deal:  1.1 for 1.4 and Abraham

Why don't you ask the Texans to throw in David Carr and Andre Johnson also.
Not a Jets fan, but If I was I'd be thrilled to get Bush to replace Martin, and get rid of Abraham's baggage and big cap #. 1.01 for 1.04, 3.04, and Abraham sounds about right. If I was Marinelli (and I'm not, which is why I'm posting here instead of sleeping in a nice bed in a huge house) I'd have Bush spelling Martin every chance I got, and have Bush split out when Martin was in. I'd probably try to find a way to play him at FS too ;)
If you were Marinelli you would be coaching the Lions.
 
Ya, I'll bet Jets fans would like that deal:   1.1 for 1.4 and Abraham

Why don't you ask the Texans to throw in David Carr and Andre Johnson also.
Not a Jets fan, but If I was I'd be thrilled to get Bush to replace Martin, and get rid of Abraham's baggage and big cap #. 1.01 for 1.04, 3.04, and Abraham sounds about right. If I was Marinelli (and I'm not, which is why I'm posting here instead of sleeping in a nice bed in a huge house) I'd have Bush spelling Martin every chance I got, and have Bush split out when Martin was in. I'd probably try to find a way to play him at FS too ;)
If you were Marinelli you would be coaching the Lions.
:lmao: you're right! Well, i can tell by my egregious mistake that I am now high enough to go to bed. 'night all! :ph34r:
 
Abrahams trade value is no doubt diminished, but there is no way the Jets will release him either
with a new head coach..."new sheriff" in town type of moves are always possibleagain, 1.04 and abe for 1.01 isn't enough to get it done

1.04, abe, and a 2nd...maybe
I don't know the details of the Texans cap situation, but if they have the money and switch the the 4-3 then Abraham would be a great addition. A DL of Abraham and Babin at DE with Travis Johnson and Seth Payne at DT would be very tough. It would also let Greenwood play his natural position of MLB. I think it would help the Texans more to have Abraham than a 2nd round pick (even a high one) if they can afford him.
On paper, I agree, but is Abraham, with the money he'll need, worth more than a guy like Charles Spencer (OG), Manny Lawson (DE/OLB), or Eric Winston (T) at the price of a 2nd rounder? I realize a lot of people are going to be asking "who?, of course Abe's worth more" - but NFL GMs know these guys and need to consider the $$$. I doubt Houston trades the pick for less than two 1sts. Would the Jets give that, with Abraham? I doubt it. Nor should they. Cedric Houston is a decent back, not a stud, but he'll suffice until CurMar is done. Their OL was bad last year (does anyone remember week 1?) and Brick helps them as much as he'd help Houston.

 
It does look like the Jets will have alot hole to fill

Newsday:Jets' offense slated for demolition

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Jets embarked in earnest yesterday on what promises to be a tumultuous offseason, sending strong signals that the rebuilding under new coach Eric Mangini will be even more widespread than anticipated.

The team will begin casting off high-priced veterans, particularly on offense, later this week, starting with tackle Jason Fabini and fullback Jerald Sowell. Guard Pete Kendall also is expected to be released in a massive salary-cap purge, but the most surprising victim could be six-time Pro Bowl center Kevin Mawae.

Two people with knowledge of the Jets' strategy said the team is open to exploring trade possibilities for Mawae, who is coming off triceps surgery and is due to count $4.5 million on the cap

Trading Mawae?

Several people familiar with the Jets' thinking said the team has pulled back on its earlier pursuit of a veteran quarterback who would require a multiyear commitment and instead is focusing on drafting a quarterback in the first round. The belief in league circles is that Mangini and general manager Mike Tannenbaum are targeting Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler with the fourth overall pick

Such a move would coincide with signing a second-tier veteran -- Aaron Brooks, Jon Kitna, Brian Griese and Sage Rosenfels are possibilities -- and almost certainly would spell the end of Pennington's career as a Jet. It's one of numerous scenarios the team is contemplating

"The only reason you don't cut Pennington is because you can't afford to," one of the people familiar with the Jets' plan said. "If you're going to draft Cutler, the Chad Pennington era is over."

The Jets currently are more than $25 million over the cap but easily could recoup close to $30 million in cap space by gutting the offensive line, releasing cornerback Ty Law and reworking contracts for receiver Laveranues Coles, running back Curtis Martin, defensive end Shaun Ellis and defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson, among others.

They're trying to keep all their options open, having engaged in discussions about acquiring Redskins quarterback Patrick Ramsey, for example. And while it's too early to write off Pennington, who ultimately might instruct his agent, Tom Condon, to stop playing hardball, it's difficult to imagine him attempting a comeback behind an offensive line that doesn't include Mawae, Fabini and Kendall

http://www.newsday.com/sports/footba...orts-headlines

 
If the Jets purge that much talent, especially from the offensive line then we will have to project two different forecast for Cutler; Cutler's NFL career with the Jets and Cutler's NFL career not with the Jets.

 
Jets are BLOWING UP their OL.....

Reason #26 why Bush will never be drafted and they won't move up....

I think they have to get an OL somewhere early....

They'll need a Center, OT and G......

If they take Ferguson the T spots are filled.

I'd say the goal is to move down into Cutler territory and try to get a later round Tackle as well.... Then maybe another OL in the 2nd round....

 
If the Jets purge that much talent, especially from the offensive line then we will have to project two different forecast for Cutler; Cutler's NFL career with the Jets and Cutler's NFL career not with the Jets.
They'll probably sit him for a year and build the OL.Maybe this is why there's talk of Fielder sticking around..... He's somewhat mobile and could be the guinny pig behind this line - He's also used to scrambling behond a porous line with Miami.

 
The OL played without Mawae and Fabini anyway this year. Kendall stunk and is overpaid. So cutting those three is not that big of a deal IMO. Would love to get a pick for Mawae - maybe a 3rd rder - but his salary and injury may just lead to cutting him.

A realistic Jet rebuild plan:

Sign Brian Griese as 1 year stop gap

Trade down a few spots - pick up a 3rd rder and get Cutler

Trade John Abe for late 1st rd pick - draft best OL/RB

2nd rd pick - best rated OL/RB

Jets would then have lots of picks left for best available players:

3rd, 3rd (Cutler trade down), 3rd/4th (Lamont Jordan comp pick), 4th, 4th (Herm pick), 4th (Kareem McKenzie comp pick), 5th, 6th, 7th, 7th (Jon McGraw trade with Detroit), 7th (Jason Ferguson comp pick). I expect a few more OL to be taken with these picks - you can get a starting OL in the later rds.

That would give the Jets 11 picks on top of Cutler, top OL and RB prospect.

Let Cutler spend most of the year learning while Griese develops the young line.

I would love to seee this - That is how you rebuild a team!

 
The OL played without Mawae and Fabini anyway this year. Kendall stunk and is overpaid. So cutting those three is not that big of a deal IMO. Would love to get a pick for Mawae - maybe a 3rd rder - but his salary and injury may just lead to cutting him.

A realistic Jet rebuild plan:

Sign Brian Griese as 1 year stop gap

Trade down a few spots - pick up a 3rd rder and get Cutler

Trade John Abe for late 1st rd pick - draft best OL/RB

2nd rd pick - best rated OL/RB

Jets would then have lots of picks left for best available players:

3rd, 3rd (Cutler trade down), 3rd/4th (Lamont Jordan comp pick), 4th, 4th (Herm pick), 4th (Kareem McKenzie comp pick), 5th, 6th, 7th, 7th (Jon McGraw trade with Detroit), 7th (Jason Ferguson comp pick). I expect a few more OL to be taken with these picks - you can get a starting OL in the later rds.

That would give the Jets 11 picks on top of Cutler, top OL and RB prospect.

Let Cutler spend most of the year learning while Griese develops the young line.

I would love to seee this - That is how you rebuild a team!
A little more in line what I expect.

Even without Culter, I expect them to stockpile picks and players over chasing a high priced guy like Bush. Good idea at least for the Jets to keep the Cutler hype as high as possible regardless, with stories "leaking" of them targeting him at 4.

Kendall did have to take over at Center - I think he's a REAL good Guard and will wind up being an incredible Plug for some teams OL... I could see him wind up with the Pats on a favorable deal and playing at an elite level.

Even Mawae will be a real good plug for some team's OL - You just can't overpay for the name - at a bargain rate, he can play. Just being on a contending team will ignite these guys after last year.

 
Well, they just cut Ty Law (decline his option, technically), Fiedler, Sowell, Fabini, Barry Gardner, Lance Legree, and Harry Williams. That's two starters on O, two on D (though Legree was marginal), and a few backups who didn't do much. The development of Mike Brown at LB made Gardner expednable.

Wish I knew what the cap situation is after these cuts, but it's not clear that the Jets are 'blowing up' the offense. Also, the whole Mawae trade idea seems unlikely - he's old and coming off an injury, and is due $4.5 million in salary. What can they get for him? A 7th rouder like Sam Cowart?

My guess is that if there's no CBA, the Jets will blow up the offense, but if there is a new CBA, they will ahve more cap space, and could make some different decisions.

 
Has anyone heard rumors that the Jets are looking to trade Abe to the skins for Ramsey and Arrington? Also heard someone say on wfan that the jets are planning a press conferance

 
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The Falcons gave pick 1.5 plus a 2, 3, 4, and Tim Dwight (I believe) to move to 1.1 a few years ago.

So no, Abraham and swapping probably won't do it.

 
Has anyone heard rumors that the Jets are looking to trade Abe to the skins for Ramsey and Arrington? Also heard someone say on wfan that the jets are planning a press conferance
This is a fabricated rumor with no support. It's also a silly deal.Before, it was silly to think the Jets would trade Abraham to move up mostly because of a schematic confrontation: Houston runs the 34.

But they recently announced that they are switching to a 43. In this case, Abraham would be a great addition to their defense.

At that, I really don't think that they would trade up to take Bush, especially given how many needs they have across the board.

I think that the Jets are trying to liquidate their assets and get as much bartering value as they can out of the current roster so they can rebuild the team.

Who is really going to want to trade up though? You know..... maybe they can work a deal with Denver.... I heard something about Shanahan saying how he was trying to clear cap room to sign a top 5 pick..... (no link, was asking a bronco homer on another forum for it, who swore he read it verbatum a week or two ago).... say, that might be crazy enough to have some legs to it.

 

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