Will Warner make the HOF? (1 Viewer)

[shader]

2 MVP's, Super Bowl Ring, 93 career passer rating.

I think right now his resume is just a bit light.

But if he can stay healthy the rest of the year and perform at the level he has the first two games, he has a legitimate shot at a 3rd MVP, which would make it awfully hard to turn him down.

Thoughts?

 

[CrossEyed]

I think he is proving in AZ that he wasn't just a product of Martz's system. But he probably needs at least a couple more high level years to make the HOF. I think he's close.

 

[KellysHeroes]

No... hes not a HOF QB. hes a Good QB... but not HOF.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Best case is a solid year and the coaching staff decide to shop Leinart. Then he has a shot at another ring. Which is what it may take to get him in the HOF.

 

[Banger]

nah...couple great seasons but not a consistently great career.

 

[Road Warriors]

Too short a time at the top, too many down years. I don't think he's that close to being a HOF candidate.

From 2002-2006, he topped out at 11 TDs, and was primarily a backup. He had 3 outstanding years to start his career in STL, but 5 years of below starting NFL QB play ( never mind HOF level play ) before having an excellent 2nd half '07.

 

[GroveDiesel]

2 more top 5 seasons and one more good season would do it. I doubt he'd get in with his current stats though. Even if he had a great year this year and then retired I don't think he'd get in.

 

[KoolKat]

Only if he wins 2 more Super Bowls.

 

[Native]

For several years he may have been the best who ever played. Still, keeping guys like Warner OUT of the HOF gives the Hall of Fame that much more credibility. He is great player who has had a very good career. And very good careers do not land someone in Canton.

Now if he wins the Super Bowl with the Cardnials - he should be a shoe in. :(

 

[Tau837]

If he won a 3rd MVP as mentioned in the OP, that would probably get him in regardless of rings and more good years. But I don't see that happening, in which case he still has plenty of work to do. I seriously doubt he makes it.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Not enough time. Unless he produces into his 40s.

 

[Ozymandias]

If he wins the Superbowl for the Cardinals, he will not only go to the Hall of Fame, but he will be able to establish a new religion in AZ, with himself as the Messiah.

 

[The Hank]

For several years he may have been the best who ever played. Still, keeping guys like Warner OUT of the HOF gives the Hall of Fame that much more credibility. He is great player who has had a very good career. And very good careers do not land someone in Canton.

Now if he wins the Super Bowl with the Cardnials - he should be a shoe in.

Warren Moon down?

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

If he wins the Superbowl for the Cardinals, he will not only go to the Hall of Fame, but he will be able to establish a new religion in AZ, with himself as the Messiah.

Not only that, but we'll have irrefutable proof that the Mayans overshot their end of the world prediction by 4 years....

 

[Buckeyedawgs]

To early to tell. If he does get in it will be like on a down year way down the road.

He won;t be a first year elgible inductee like Favre will be for sure. Possibly down the road if he keeps up his curretnt pace a couple more years at least! Another MVP will help. I certainly wont rule him out at this point of time!

 

[Native]

For several years he may have been the best who ever played. Still, keeping guys like Warner OUT of the HOF gives the Hall of Fame that much more credibility. He is great player who has had a very good career. And very good careers do not land someone in Canton.

Now if he wins the Super Bowl with the Cardnials - he should be a shoe in.

Warren Moon down?

I didnt think he deserved to make it based on his body of work, although his inability to land a job in the NFL early in his career makes him an exception IMO. Had he been given a chance from his rookie season to play QB in the NFL, there probably wouldnt be any question as to his credentials.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

He has or should have at least as much chance of making the hall-of-fame as Terrell Davis.

 

[TommyGilmore]

For several years he may have been the best who ever played. Still, keeping guys like Warner OUT of the HOF gives the Hall of Fame that much more credibility. He is great player who has had a very good career. And very good careers do not land someone in Canton.

Now if he wins the Super Bowl with the Cardnials - he should be a shoe in.

Warren Moon down?

Moon made 9 Pro Bowls; Warner made 3.

 

[Dirk Digler]

brenda warner has a better chance of making it as kurt's GM

 

[Jayrod]

I'm a huge Kurt Warner fan, but objectively, I don't see how he's even close right now.

It would take at least two more exceptional seasons to even make this a discussion. He just doesn't have the longevity of success needed. He's been a backup for several years now. Hall of Famers aren't backups for half of their careers...especially when that career got started late.

 

[encaitar]

In regards to Warren Moon... since it's the Pro Football Hall of Fame not the NFL Hall of Fame I believe his CFL stats weren't completely discounted. Plus he was good for many more years than Warner has been.

Now, if Warner were to win another MVP I think he does make it. There's only one 3 time MVP in history(Favre) and I think that accomplishment would hold high merit. If the Cards win a SB, he's a lock.

 

[jon_mx]

His career achievements are comparable to Joe Theismann, but Kurt does have a much better career Passing Rating, 93 vs. 77. Both are worthy to be considered, but Warner should get the nod before Theismann. If Warner can have a couple more great seasons on his resume, I think he gets in.

 

[Bri]

If he won a 3rd MVP as mentioned in the OP, that would probably get him in regardless of rings and more good years. But I don't see that happening, in which case he still has plenty of work to do. I seriously doubt he makes it.

What he said.I think people will look at him as the previous MVP awards are enough representation that he had especially good seasons. There's no need to propel those seasons into a career and put him in the HOF. The MVPs are enough.A few more especially good seasons could very well change that.He doesn't play old like he's done soon. Some QBs last a long time. At the rate he's throwing to Boldin, Boldin might even feel like staying in Arizona instead of whining about a contract and leaving. Also BTW, IF IF IF he had a few more especially good seasons, Boldin and Fitz might be going to the HOF.

 

[Native]

If he takes the Arizona to the Super Bowl, he will go down as one of the more amazing stories in NFL History. Tnk about it - taking the Rams to the Super Bowl in the midst of some of the teams darkest years AND carrying the perpetually inept Cards to the SB?

 

[machogrande]

He probably won't make the HOF due to length of career, which I think is unfair because any QB who mastered and executed Martz's playbook the way he did in St Louis should ####### get in based on that alone. The "greatest show on turf" was something special to watch. It just kills me (i'm a DET fan) when I know that this guy has been fighting to get a starting gig. He's welcome in d-town ANYTIME to replace Capt Turnover.

I've always been a big fan. Dude can play & he handled the whole "battle" in camp with a lot of class.... he's got my vote.

 

[Tau837]

No idea why some have chosen to turn a Warner HOF thread into an opportunity to say Moon did not deserve HOF induction, but that is off base. He accomplished a lot in the NFL:

9 Pro Bowls

1989 NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year

1990 NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc. MVP

1990 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year

4th in NFL history in passing attempts, completions, and passing yards

6th in NFL history in passing TDs

Threw for at least 3678 yards and 25 TDs with 3 different franchises (Houston, Minnesota, Seattle)

On top of those things, obviously being a successful black QB was noteworthy, especially a passing QB rather than a running QB like Kordell, Vick, etc.

And he did all that despite spending his first 6 years as a professional football player in the CFL. To put that in perspective, Favre won 2 MVPs and a Super Bowl in his first 6 professional seasons... if Favre spent his first 6 seasons in the CFL and then joined the NFL and played exactly the same as he has every season since then, he may not be a HOF player. Same for Brady and Peyton Manning.

 

[Ballstein]

I think he is comparable to Warren Moon. Both good passers.

 

[Tanner9919]

2 MVP's, Super Bowl Ring, 93 career passer rating. I think right now his resume is just a bit light.But if he can stay healthy the rest of the year and perform at the level he has the first two games, he has a legitimate shot at a 3rd MVP, which would make it awfully hard to turn him down.Thoughts?

Warner >>>>>>>> Warren MoonWarner is >>>MarinoWarner has 2 MVP's and a SB title and came within a hair of winning a 2nd SB title..Moon has...um...lets see, good stats..same with Marino..Warner is a LOCK for the HOF , imo..he has a higher comp percentage ( 5 pts higher) and is nearly 8 pts higher in QB Rating, than Dan Marino.Not saying Marino is a dog sled, but, Warner deserves his share of props ...the guy is a winner, and an extremely accurate passer..and he's doing it all over again, sans Faulk,Holt, and Co.Warner was some 13 pts higher in QB Rating than Warren Moon, and some 7 pts higher in completion percentage. Moon is just 102-101 wins/losses,lifetime. Warner is 48-37,while Marino is 147-93. While Marino posted better w/l record as a starter, Warner won 2 championships and 1 SB, and nearly repeated as SB champs.Marino never went back to the big game...I wonder if anyone has stats on accuracy of deep passes vs. Marino,Elway, etc..I'm sure Warner is up there with the best of them..if people are on the fence about Simms getting in , then Warner is a stone-cold-lock..

 

[*****]

His numbers were seriously undermined by management's decision to draft Eli and Leinert--and even the Ram's decision to stick with Bulger after he came in. The Giants probably made a good decision to play Eli so that he could could develop and lead them to a Super Bowl. Maybe not so much with Leinert.

But, I don't think it can be argued that Warner was a starting level QB even when the teams he was with were trying to look toward younger QBs.

Maybe it's not enough to get him in to the HOF, but when you consider his late start and these other factors, Warner performed at a HOF level in most of the seasons where he was the annointed starter.

The discussion for Warner will probably not focus exclusively on a comparison of his career totals to other QBs. Whenever he got a majority of his teams pass attempts for the year, he was pretty lights out.

On the other hand, the same arguments could be presented for any injured RB (ala Terrell Davis).

 

[Native]

No idea why some have chosen to turn a Warner HOF thread into an opportunity to say Moon did not deserve HOF induction, but that is off base. He accomplished a lot in the NFL:9 Pro Bowls1989 NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year 1990 NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc. MVP 1990 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year4th in NFL history in passing attempts, completions, and passing yards6th in NFL history in passing TDsThrew for at least 3678 yards and 25 TDs with 3 different franchises (Houston, Minnesota, Seattle)On top of those things, obviously being a successful black QB was noteworthy, especially a passing QB rather than a running QB like Kordell, Vick, etc.And he did all that despite spending his first 6 years as a professional football player in the CFL. To put that in perspective, Favre won 2 MVPs and a Super Bowl in his first 6 professional seasons... if Favre spent his first 6 seasons in the CFL and then joined the NFL and played exactly the same as he has every season since then, he may not be a HOF player. Same for Brady and Peyton Manning.

Lets put it into proper perspective - Had he played in the NFL from the getgo, he would have retired as the all-time leading passer in yards in NFL history. And he would have been in the top 3 in TD's.

 

[Ballstein]

No idea why some have chosen to turn a Warner HOF thread into an opportunity to say Moon did not deserve HOF induction, but that is off base. He accomplished a lot in the NFL:9 Pro Bowls1989 NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year 1990 NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc. MVP 1990 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year4th in NFL history in passing attempts, completions, and passing yards6th in NFL history in passing TDsThrew for at least 3678 yards and 25 TDs with 3 different franchises (Houston, Minnesota, Seattle)On top of those things, obviously being a successful black QB was noteworthy, especially a passing QB rather than a running QB like Kordell, Vick, etc.And he did all that despite spending his first 6 years as a professional football player in the CFL. To put that in perspective, Favre won 2 MVPs and a Super Bowl in his first 6 professional seasons... if Favre spent his first 6 seasons in the CFL and then joined the NFL and played exactly the same as he has every season since then, he may not be a HOF player. Same for Brady and Peyton Manning.

Who said Moon didnt deserve an induction?Lets put it into proper perspective - Had he played in the NFL from the getgo, he would have retired as the all-time leading passer in yards in NFL history. And he would have been in the top 3 in TD's.

Whoo said Moon didnt deserve an induction?

 

[Tau837]

No idea why some have chosen to turn a Warner HOF thread into an opportunity to say Moon did not deserve HOF induction, but that is off base. He accomplished a lot in the NFL:9 Pro Bowls1989 NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year 1990 NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc. MVP 1990 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year4th in NFL history in passing attempts, completions, and passing yards6th in NFL history in passing TDsThrew for at least 3678 yards and 25 TDs with 3 different franchises (Houston, Minnesota, Seattle)On top of those things, obviously being a successful black QB was noteworthy, especially a passing QB rather than a running QB like Kordell, Vick, etc.And he did all that despite spending his first 6 years as a professional football player in the CFL. To put that in perspective, Favre won 2 MVPs and a Super Bowl in his first 6 professional seasons... if Favre spent his first 6 seasons in the CFL and then joined the NFL and played exactly the same as he has every season since then, he may not be a HOF player. Same for Brady and Peyton Manning.

Lets put it into proper perspective - Had he played in the NFL from the getgo, he would have retired as the all-time leading passer in yards in NFL history. And he would have been in the top 3 in TD's.

Whoo said Moon didnt deserve an induction?

Maybe I misread that... though someone did post that he didn't deserve to make it based on his body of work, which I disagree with.

 

[SSOG]

He has or should have at least as much chance of making the hall-of-fame as Terrell Davis.

That's the comp I was going to make. Warner is basically the Terrell Davis of QBs. Working in Warner's favor is that he's still playing, and therefore has a chance to put up some mediocre compiler seasons like Davis never could. Working against Warner is that, unlike Davis, he actually had some low years. A lot of people will argue that a Hall of Famer doesn't play AS A BACKUP on 3 different teams in 3 years. Heck, I'm one of those people.Had Warner suffered a career-ending injury in 2002, I'd probably be espousing him for the HoF, but those 3 backup gigs in 3 years really taint my perception of him. He's got a lot of work left to do to win it back.

 

[Sheriff66]

No way

 

[jon_mx]

Robert Allen Griese. . .All-America at Purdue. . .No. 1 draft pick, 1967. . .Poised leader of classic ball-control offense. . . Led Miami to three AFC titles, Super Bowl VII, VIII wins. . . NFL Player of the Year, 1971. . .All-Pro twice, All-AFC three times. . .Played in two AFL All-Star games, six AFC-NFC Pro Bowls. . .Career Stats: 25,092 yards, 192 TDs, 77.1 rating passing; 994 yards, 7 TDs rushing.

Griese has one more Super Bowl title, but other than that, that is about it. Warner will pass Griese in yards for certain and perhaps TD's if he stays around a couple more years. Warner's QB rating is far higher.

 

[Tau837]

Robert Allen Griese. . .All-America at Purdue. . .No. 1 draft pick, 1967. . .Poised leader of classic ball-control offense. . . Led Miami to three AFC titles, Super Bowl VII, VIII wins. . . NFL Player of the Year, 1971. . .All-Pro twice, All-AFC three times. . .Played in two AFL All-Star games, six AFC-NFC Pro Bowls. . .Career Stats: 25,092 yards, 192 TDs, 77.1 rating passing; 994 yards, 7 TDs rushing.Griese has one more Super Bowl title, but other than that, that is about it. Warner will pass Griese in yards for certain and perhaps TD's if he stays around a couple more years. Warner's QB rating is far higher.

1. Different eras.2. Players need to make it in on their own merits, not based on the "player X is better than player Y who is in the HOF" argument... that latter thinking is why the baseball HOF includes a lot of undeserving players.

 

[TitusIII]

If we are talking about how good a player was at their peak, then Kurt Warner should be a lock for the hall of fame. His QB rating ranks 4th all time, and the guy is always one of the best QB's in the league when healthy. His longevity, or lack therof will probably keep him out, but I think he has HOF-calibre talent...

 

[TommyGilmore]

He has or should have at least as much chance of making the hall-of-fame as Terrell Davis.

That's the comp I was going to make. Warner is basically the Terrell Davis of QBs. Working in Warner's favor is that he's still playing, and therefore has a chance to put up some mediocre compiler seasons like Davis never could. Working against Warner is that, unlike Davis, he actually had some low years. A lot of people will argue that a Hall of Famer doesn't play AS A BACKUP on 3 different teams in 3 years. Heck, I'm one of those people.Had Warner suffered a career-ending injury in 2002, I'd probably be espousing him for the HoF, but those 3 backup gigs in 3 years really taint my perception of him. He's got a lot of work left to do to win it back.

In defense of his backup years, 1 was due to injury and 1 was partly because he wasn't fully recovered from those injuries (and he still outplayed the guy who replaced him). And in Arizona he beat out the guy he was supposed to be backing up.Still, I would think that a true HOFer wouldn't have struggled to beat out Eli Manning and Matt Leinart.

 

[TitusIII]

He has or should have at least as much chance of making the hall-of-fame as Terrell Davis.

That's the comp I was going to make. Warner is basically the Terrell Davis of QBs. Working in Warner's favor is that he's still playing, and therefore has a chance to put up some mediocre compiler seasons like Davis never could. Working against Warner is that, unlike Davis, he actually had some low years. A lot of people will argue that a Hall of Famer doesn't play AS A BACKUP on 3 different teams in 3 years. Heck, I'm one of those people.Had Warner suffered a career-ending injury in 2002, I'd probably be espousing him for the HoF, but those 3 backup gigs in 3 years really taint my perception of him. He's got a lot of work left to do to win it back.

In defense of his backup years, 1 was due to injury and 1 was partly because he wasn't fully recovered from those injuries (and he still outplayed the guy who replaced him). And in Arizona he beat out the guy he was supposed to be backing up.Still, I would think that a true HOFer wouldn't have struggled to beat out Eli Manning and Matt Leinart.

Money/Ego of the GM's/Pressure from the fans is a powerful force...Warner got screwed, but he has obviously overcome the screwings!

 

[switz]

2 MVP's, Super Bowl Ring, 93 career passer rating. I think right now his resume is just a bit light.But if he can stay healthy the rest of the year and perform at the level he has the first two games, he has a legitimate shot at a 3rd MVP, which would make it awfully hard to turn him down.Thoughts?

I think he got a reputation of being a caretaker QB in NY and now in AZ, while young QBs were learning the game. He's doing very well in AZ, but he also has Boldin and Fitz on the other end of his passes. I don't really see him with his career so far making it near the HOF.

 

[trader jake]

Yes. He has the championship, the awards, and the numbers.

 

[trader jake]

Warner is basically the Terrell Davis of QBs.

Um, no. TD did it in one specific system, with one of the best QB's of all-time playing in the same backfield. Also, the track record of success as a Denver running back is way higher than the Rams QB or the Cardinals QB.

 

[kaa]

Sure why not

 

[kingmalaki]

Disclaimer: I am a native Houstonian.

I wonder how much better Moon would have looked throwing to guys like Bruce, Holt, Fitz and Boldin....or with a RB like Faulk. He looked good throwing to Carter as a 40 year old.

Moon made the HOF based on stats, same as Marino. Moon's NFL stats (yardage, TD's, etc) are among the best ever posted.

And as far as the T.Davis comparisons…TD carried Elway to the promised land. It wasn't the other way around.

 

[Ice Cream Man]

Warner gets in if he:

1. Wins another MVP;

2. Wins another Superbowl;

3. Puts up another 3 good or very good years (i.e. this year, and two more, so playing at least until he's 39).

With respect to (3), that would give him 7 full seasons at a high level of play, among many injuries and bogus QB drama (which he handled with total class). That gets him in.

Is any of this likely? Maybe 1%, 5%, and 25%, respectively. That would give him a net 29.5% chance.

 

[SSOG]

Robert Allen Griese. . .All-America at Purdue. . .No. 1 draft pick, 1967. . .Poised leader of classic ball-control offense. . . Led Miami to three AFC titles, Super Bowl VII, VIII wins. . . NFL Player of the Year, 1971. . .All-Pro twice, All-AFC three times. . .Played in two AFL All-Star games, six AFC-NFC Pro Bowls. . .Career Stats: 25,092 yards, 192 TDs, 77.1 rating passing; 994 yards, 7 TDs rushing.Griese has one more Super Bowl title, but other than that, that is about it. Warner will pass Griese in yards for certain and perhaps TD's if he stays around a couple more years. Warner's QB rating is far higher.

Was Griese ever a backup for three different teams in three consecutive years when he should have been in the prime of his career?

Warner is basically the Terrell Davis of QBs.

Um, no. TD did it in one specific system, with one of the best QB's of all-time playing in the same backfield. Also, the track record of success as a Denver running back is way higher than the Rams QB or the Cardinals QB.

Is it really? Kurt Warner's QB rating in 1999 was 109.2. Trent Green's QB rating in 2000 was 101.8. Kurt Warner's QB rating in 2001 was 101.4. Marc Bulger's QB rating in 2002 was 101.5. That looks to me suspiciously like a track record of success. Warner's QB rating hasn't cracked 90 since 2002, but Green and Bulger have eclipsed that mark 8 times between them in the same basic system (albeit with a little less talent than the peak Greatest Show On Turf years).As for the track record of success in Denver at RB... Terrell Davis rushed for 2,000 yards. Only one other Denver RB has cracked 1,500- Clinton Portis. Do you want to insinuate that Portis was a product of the system, too? Or are you willing to acknowledge that Portis is a legitimate stud, and that he got legitimately outperformed by a HUGE margin by Davis? Davis outperformed his successors by a far greater level than Warner outperformed his.

 

[damageinc]

AT this moment NO i dont think he gets in but I think the argument is closer than some folks are letting one. BUT he will get in if he

1. Gets to another supoerbowl - win or lose

2. Wins MVP

3. Throws for 4000 yards and 30+ TD this year and next

4. Goes out and throws 40 TD's this year and has that type of year and then follows it up with a good year next year .With those 2 recievers 40 TD's with warner is definetly possible . Dude threw 27 TD's last year in I believe 13 games. He was the #1 QB the second half of last year ( he wasnt the starter until lienart got hurt)

I think #3 gets him in . he will probally play 2-3 more years and if he can be the top or a top QB for this season and next he will atleast get consideration when the time comes.

 

[T Bell]

No idea why some have chosen to turn a Warner HOF thread into an opportunity to say Moon did not deserve HOF induction, but that is off base. He accomplished a lot in the NFL:9 Pro Bowls1989 NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year 1990 NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc. MVP 1990 NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year4th in NFL history in passing attempts, completions, and passing yards6th in NFL history in passing TDsThrew for at least 3678 yards and 25 TDs with 3 different franchises (Houston, Minnesota, Seattle)On top of those things, obviously being a successful black QB was noteworthy, especially a passing QB rather than a running QB like Kordell, Vick, etc.And he did all that despite spending his first 6 years as a professional football player in the CFL. To put that in perspective, Favre won 2 MVPs and a Super Bowl in his first 6 professional seasons... if Favre spent his first 6 seasons in the CFL and then joined the NFL and played exactly the same as he has every season since then, he may not be a HOF player. Same for Brady and Peyton Manning.

Lets put it into proper perspective - Had he played in the NFL from the getgo, he would have retired as the all-time leading passer in yards in NFL history. And he would have been in the top 3 in TD's.

What would have happened if his aunt had balls?

 

[David Yudkin]

I've asked this question before and started my own Warner for HOF thread in the past: LINK

Historically speaking, many of the already inducted QBs have spanned very lengthy and productive careers. Warner's candidacy really revolves around two exemplary years. Take those away and what do you really have? Here's what I started that other thread with:

HIGHLIGHTS:

- Poster Boy for "rags to riches" story and one for the ages. Can easily see his story as a future Disney movie.

- All-time leader in yards per attempt (8.21).

- All-time leader in completion percentage (65.6).

- Third highest all-time passer rating (93.8) behind only Steve Young and Peyton Manning.

- Two-time League MVP and one-time Super Bowl MVP.

- Teamed with Trent Green to set single season team passing record (5,232 yards in 2000).

- Second most passing yards in a season (4,830).

- Fourth most passing TD in a season (41).

- Most and second most yards passing in a Super Bowl.

LOWLIGHTS:

- While he went "rags to riches" he also went "riches to rags."

- Only played in 80 games.

- Lost starting job in STL, NYG, and ARI.

- A zillion fumbles/interceptions in recent years.

- He's turned the ball over 133 times in 96 games.

- Hasn't done much since 2001.

- Only played in two full seasons.

- Only three seasons with over 3,000 passing yards or 20 TD passes.

- Not in the All-Time Top 50 in any other major passing category.

Remember, it's the Hall of FAME, and not just the Hall of CAREER STATISTICS. Has Warner done enough to get in?

 

[Hobbes]

Sure...they sell tickets to the HOF to anyone....just go to the ticket counter.

Seriously, I feel dumber for having read this...next someone is going to argue Vinny should be in the HOF because he's #6 all time in passing yards (and #8 in TDs).