With all the new coaches being talked about, what about minority hirin (1 Viewer)

[Ravens]

I thought NFL teams HAD to interview minorities for open head coaching positions?

What happened to this rule?

If it is still in effect, who are the poor schmucks who will be used as the "token interviewees" this year?

 

[Ravens]

No replys?

Is this rule still in effect?

Is this a subject no one wants to discuss?

 

[B-Deep]

it is

and if there are enough openings, then one of the people you call "tokens" may get a job

 

[benm3218]

I was thinking about this today too... How sucky would it be to be that "token guy" who gets interviewed before Shanahan or Cower gets hired? I understand the rule and think it does some good probably, but in the cases of top of the line white guys just waiting to be hired, it has to suck for the black guy in the forced interview...

 

[perry147]

I was thinking about this today too... How sucky would it be to be that "token guy" who gets interviewed before Shanahan or Cower gets hired? I understand the rule and think it does some good probably, but in the cases of top of the line white guys just waiting to be hired, it has to suck for the black guy in the forced interview...

This is the real problem with these type rules. Imagine you are an assistant coach and only get asked to an HC interview because of this rule. The end result is that you interview at a few places and then people start to believe that you are only a token regardless of how hard you work, and never really get an honest shot at the job.

 

[Wu-banger]

horrible rule....

if a team wants Shanny or The Chin cause they are impressed by their body of work they have to interview a minority...but if they want Dungy or Edwards for the same reasons they are free to hire on the spot...

stupid, stupid rule.

Rehiring Raheem Morris should count as something.

 

[blend]

I thought I heard on one of the telecasts that the Redskins hiring of Allen and eventually Shanny will still comply with the Rooney rule b/c Snyder interviewed Def Coordinator Gray and someone else that could have been up for the GM gig.

 

[Don Quixote]

I was thinking about this today too... How sucky would it be to be that "token guy" who gets interviewed before Shanahan or Cower gets hired? I understand the rule and think it does some good probably, but in the cases of top of the line white guys just waiting to be hired, it has to suck for the black guy in the forced interview...

This is the real problem with these type rules. Imagine you are an assistant coach and only get asked to an HC interview because of this rule. The end result is that you interview at a few places and then people start to believe that you are only a token regardless of how hard you work, and never really get an honest shot at the job.

I'm not defending Rooney Rule as an overall matter, but I don't think that is necessarily the case. Ron Rivera was a popular interview a couple of years ago, and he should get more opportunities this year. But I don't think that hurts him, as prior interview experience may help him do better in interviews this off-season, and there are bigger problems with any organization looking for a coach that only views him as a "token" interview.

 

[Zoomanji]

Jerry Gray

Ron Rivera

Perry Fewell

 

[grind]

I thought I heard on one of the telecasts that the Redskins hiring of Allen and eventually Shanny will still comply with the Rooney rule b/c Snyder interviewed Def Coordinator Gray and someone else that could have been up for the GM gig.

Didn't Zorn just get fired yesterday and Shanny is already working on the contract. When did this Gray interview happen?

 

[Don Quixote]

I thought I heard on one of the telecasts that the Redskins hiring of Allen and eventually Shanny will still comply with the Rooney rule b/c Snyder interviewed Def Coordinator Gray and someone else that could have been up for the GM gig.

Didn't Zorn just get fired yesterday and Shanny is already working on the contract. When did this Gray interview happen?

During the season, while Cerrato was still running things. That apparently counted.

 

[grind]

So Zorn gets fired yesterday and per the following from ESPN, "Talks between the two sides went well enough Monday night that Shanahan summoned his agent, Sandy Montag, to Washington on Tuesday morning to negotiate a deal with the Redskins

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4795477

When did the Skins interview a minority? Did Snyder pass a minority on the way to his office after a bathroom visit, say "hello", and bingo...interview conducted...test passed?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I thought NFL teams HAD to interview minorities for open head coaching positions?What happened to this rule?If it is still in effect, who are the poor schmucks who will be used as the "token interviewees" this year?

The Bills interviewed Perry Fewell yesterday. I don't think anybody considers him a serious candidate for the position, but he gets the team covered under the Rooney rule.

 

[culdeus]

I thought NFL teams HAD to interview minorities for open head coaching positions?What happened to this rule?If it is still in effect, who are the poor schmucks who will be used as the "token interviewees" this year?

pretty much every team has a guy on staff that's minority and can be used for this.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

So Zorn gets fired yesterday and per the following from ESPN, "Talks between the two sides went well enough Monday night that Shanahan summoned his agent, Sandy Montag, to Washington on Tuesday morning to negotiate a deal with the Redskins

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4795477

When did the Skins interview a minority? Did Snyder pass a minority on the way to his office after a bathroom visit, say "hello", and bingo...interview conducted...test passed?

Before he hired Parcells, Jerry Jones called Denny Green on the phone and that counted as an interview.

 

[Da Guru]

Will Norm Chow get an interview?

 

[Nemesis]

QUESTION: Does the Rooney Rule apply to the hiring of GMs too?

Even though I don't agree with the rule, I'm curious to see if this is applied consistently and if it isn't, then Why Not?

 

[dgreen]

QUESTION: Does the Rooney Rule apply to the hiring of GMs too?Even though I don't agree with the rule, I'm curious to see if this is applied consistently and if it isn't, then Why Not?

Yes, I believe it was recently extended to executive positions.

 

[grind]

I thought NFL teams HAD to interview minorities for open head coaching positions?

What happened to this rule?

If it is still in effect, who are the poor schmucks who will be used as the "token interviewees" this year?

pretty much every team has a guy on staff that's minority and can be used for this.

Is being used really better then not being interviewed at all?

 

[GroveDiesel]

QUESTION: Does the Rooney Rule apply to the hiring of GMs too?Even though I don't agree with the rule, I'm curious to see if this is applied consistently and if it isn't, then Why Not?

Yes, I believe it was recently extended to executive positions.

And yes, both the Redskins and Bills interviewed minority candidates.And the Redskins interviewed Jerry Gray for the head coaching position weeks ago. For some reason the NFL decided that they had no problem with this charade even though it was patently ridiculous.

 

[the turnip]

Or maybe we could hire the most qualified candidate and not care what color his skin is.

 

[culdeus]

I thought NFL teams HAD to interview minorities for open head coaching positions?

What happened to this rule?

If it is still in effect, who are the poor schmucks who will be used as the "token interviewees" this year?

pretty much every team has a guy on staff that's minority and can be used for this.

Is being used really better then not being interviewed at all?

Probably helps secure you a role on the new staff.

 

[dgreen]

QUESTION: Does the Rooney Rule apply to the hiring of GMs too?

Even though I don't agree with the rule, I'm curious to see if this is applied consistently and if it isn't, then Why Not?

Yes, I believe it was recently extended to executive positions.

And yes, both the Redskins and Bills interviewed minority candidates.And the Redskins interviewed Jerry Gray for the head coaching position weeks ago. For some reason the NFL decided that they had no problem with this charade even though it was patently ridiculous.

So you have better information than the Fritz Pollard Alliance on what happened and how that it relates to the details of the Rooney Rule?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I was thinking about this today too... How sucky would it be to be that "token guy" who gets interviewed before Shanahan or Cower gets hired? I understand the rule and think it does some good probably, but in the cases of top of the line white guys just waiting to be hired, it has to suck for the black guy in the forced interview...

This is the real problem with these type rules. Imagine you are an assistant coach and only get asked to an HC interview because of this rule. The end result is that you interview at a few places and then people start to believe that you are only a token regardless of how hard you work, and never really get an honest shot at the job.

The rule is in place so that the "token" guy gets in the room and has a chance to impress whereas had the owner just stayed within "the good old boys network" and just hired a Cowher or Shannahan etc., without thinking of an unknown the guy would never have gotten a shot. Even if a team goes with the old man coach, had the "token" interviewed well, the word will get out and the guy will get another shot.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Or maybe we could hire the most qualified candidate and not care what color his skin is.

It would be great if the world worked like that, but historically it has not.

 

[delusional]

I was thinking about this today too... How sucky would it be to be that "token guy" who gets interviewed before Shanahan or Cower gets hired? I understand the rule and think it does some good probably, but in the cases of top of the line white guys just waiting to be hired, it has to suck for the black guy in the forced interview...

the rule is racist in itself.

 

[renesauz]

Or maybe we could hire the most qualified candidate and not care what color his skin is.

It would be great if the world worked like that, but historically it has not.

So let's fix the problem by reversing it.ETA: Color-blindness can't be taught until we're actually practicing to be color blind. Right now, the norm is to look for the minorities first. This is not racial "justice", but simply a new form of racism, and it's every bit as disgusting.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Or maybe we could hire the most qualified candidate and not care what color his skin is.

But that would be racist.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I was thinking about this today too... How sucky would it be to be that "token guy" who gets interviewed before Shanahan or Cower gets hired? I understand the rule and think it does some good probably, but in the cases of top of the line white guys just waiting to be hired, it has to suck for the black guy in the forced interview...

This is the real problem with these type rules. Imagine you are an assistant coach and only get asked to an HC interview because of this rule. The end result is that you interview at a few places and then people start to believe that you are only a token regardless of how hard you work, and never really get an honest shot at the job.

The rule is in place so that the "token" guy gets in the room and has a chance to impress whereas had the owner just stayed within "the good old boys network" and just hired a Cowher or Shannahan etc., without thinking of an unknown the guy would never have gotten a shot. Even if a team goes with the old man coach, had the "token" interviewed well, the word will get out and the guy will get another shot.

So what if there's a white guy that's just really underappreciated and if he could just get an interview, could really "wow" people?

 

[doughith]

I am all for equality, but isn't giving special treatment to a certain race 'racism', by definition?

Hire the best man for the job. I think anyone should be insulted if they were interviewed for any job if there was a 0% chance of obtaining said job.

 

[FavreCo]

Snyder is an idiot but I give him props for spitting on this rule when he interviewed Jerry Gray while Zorn was still HC. He got that bull#### outta the way quick.

 

[Chaka]

QUESTION: Does the Rooney Rule apply to the hiring of GMs too?Even though I don't agree with the rule, I'm curious to see if this is applied consistently and if it isn't, then Why Not?

Yes, I believe it was recently extended to executive positions.

And yes, both the Redskins and Bills interviewed minority candidates.And the Redskins interviewed Jerry Gray for the head coaching position weeks ago. For some reason the NFL decided that they had no problem with this charade even though it was patently ridiculous.

Who did the Redskins interview other than Bruce Allen for the GM position?

 

[GroveDiesel]

QUESTION: Does the Rooney Rule apply to the hiring of GMs too?

Even though I don't agree with the rule, I'm curious to see if this is applied consistently and if it isn't, then Why Not?

Yes, I believe it was recently extended to executive positions.

And yes, both the Redskins and Bills interviewed minority candidates.And the Redskins interviewed Jerry Gray for the head coaching position weeks ago. For some reason the NFL decided that they had no problem with this charade even though it was patently ridiculous.

So you have better information than the Fritz Pollard Alliance on what happened and how that it relates to the details of the Rooney Rule?

The Rooney Rule says that it has to be an open coaching vacancy. Gray was interviewed while Zorn was still the head coach. Thus, it was not an open coaching vacancy. The Fritz Pollard Alliance made themselves look like fools for rubber stamping that charade.The rule is ridiculous at this point, but if it's going to be in place, the NFL should enforce it for everyone. It's abundantly clear that there's one set of rules for some owners and another set of rules for the more influential owners.

 

[JJP]

If a minority candidate declines an interview, does that count?

 

[Ravens]

Or maybe we could hire the most qualified candidate and not care what color his skin is.

But that would be racist.

You're a racist for pointing that out!

 

[fatness]

I am all for equality, but isn't giving special treatment to a certain race 'racism', by definition?Hire the best man for the job.

The rule doesn't say who to hire.

 

[fatness]

The Rooney Rule says that it has to be an open coaching vacancy.

No it doesn't.

The NFL hastily assembled a "Committee on Work Place Diversity." Chaired by Rooney, the committee would determine the necessity and nature of remedial action. In December 2002, the group issued its recommendations, most crucially a requirement that "any club seeking to hire a head coach will interview one or more minority applicants for that position." This "Rooney Rule" the following year became binding on all NFL teams.

link

The NFL requires teams to interview a minority candidate to fill any head coaching vacancy. The watchdog group that monitors the league's minority hiring practices has recommended to the commissioner's office that Gray's interview should satisfy that requirement.

"Teams can interview during the season members of their own staff or coaches not working for NFL teams as prospective head coaches," spokesman Greg Aiello wrote in an email this morning. "Such interviews would count toward Rooney rule compliance."

link

 

[ChargersOH]

Or maybe we could hire the most qualified candidate and not care what color his skin is.

It would be great if the world worked like that, but historically it has not.

You can still hire the most qualified candidate. Promoting diversity in a positive, but non-controlling manner isn't a bad thing.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The Rooney Rule implicates essentially all of the common arguments in favor of and against any affirmative action program. I expect these are already pretty well known to everyone. At least in the case of the NFL's version of AA, I found this part of the Wikipedia entry interesting:

The Rule was established to help qualified minority coaches get jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten. Until 1979, Fritz Pollard was the only minority head coach in NFL history (which was during the league's early years in the 1920's) and by the time the Rule was implemented, only Tom Flores, Art Shell, Dennis Green, Ray Rhodes, Tony Dungy, and Herman Edwards had ever held head coaching jobs. (Only Dungy and Edwards were actively head coaching at the time of the Rule's implementation, though Shell and Green would later return to the sidelines as head coaches.) Dungy in particular had struggled for years getting a head coaching job, often being promoted as a head coaching candidate by Chuck Noll when Dungy was an assistant under Noll in the 1980's with the Steelers, but wouldn't become a head coach until 1996 when he took over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Since the Rooney Rule was established, several NFL franchises have hired minority head coaches, including the Steelers themselves, who hired Mike Tomlin before their 2007 season.[2] (The Steelers, however, had already interviewed Ron Rivera to fulfill the Rule before interviewing Tomlin, and Rooney himself contends that Tomlin's hiring did not result from the Rule.)[3] At the start of the 2006 season, the overall percentage of African American coaches had jumped to 22%, up from 6% prior to the Rooney Rule.[4] Even so, the policy is still debated and no team has stated whether the Rooney Rule contributed to the hiring of a minority.

Also a reference to a law journal article which I have not read, but may be worthwhile for those interested in the topic: Time for a Hail Mary? With Bleak Prospects of Being Aided by a College Version of the NFL's Rooney Rule, Should Minority College Football Coaches Turn Their Attention to Title VII Litigation?

 

[TWP]

The Rooney Rule definitely raises the profile of the people who interview even if they don't get the job. It can be an ineffective rule (although I actually would bet you that it isn't) but it certainly is not worse than having no rule.

 

[GroveDiesel]

The Rooney Rule says that it has to be an open coaching vacancy.

No it doesn't.

The NFL hastily assembled a "Committee on Work Place Diversity." Chaired by Rooney, the committee would determine the necessity and nature of remedial action. In December 2002, the group issued its recommendations, most crucially a requirement that "any club seeking to hire a head coach will interview one or more minority applicants for that position." This "Rooney Rule" the following year became binding on all NFL teams.

link

The NFL requires teams to interview a minority candidate to fill any head coaching vacancy. The watchdog group that monitors the league's minority hiring practices has recommended to the commissioner's office that Gray's interview should satisfy that requirement.

"Teams can interview during the season members of their own staff or coaches not working for NFL teams as prospective head coaches," spokesman Greg Aiello wrote in an email this morning. "Such interviews would count toward Rooney rule compliance."

link

Also from Greg Aiello:

Specifically, Aiello pointed out that a team "can't be non-compliant if there is no vacancy." Asked whether this also means that a team can comply if there's no vacancy, Aiello said, "Not officially. That is why we are not commenting on it. Jim Zorn is the head coach. As you noted, the rule is silent on whether there must be a vacancy before there can be compliance."

It's a total sham and everyone knows it. The NFL and Greg Aiello only backpedaled and allowed it because Snyder pressured them into allowing it. Why couldn't every team in the league interview one minority candidate in-house one time and then say until the end of time that they had already interviewed a minority for the job?

 

[fatness]

It's a total sham and everyone knows it. The NFL and Greg Aiello only backpedaled and allowed it because Snyder pressured them into allowing it. Why couldn't every team in the league interview one minority candidate in-house one time and then say until the end of time that they had already interviewed a minority for the job?

There is nowhere that it requires what you stated --- that candidates can only be interviewed after a vacancy comes up. You're wrong about that and now you're grasping at saying that really was the rule but they won't enforce it that way. You're wrong about that also. You're better off making your arguments without attaching untrue things to them.

 

[BassNBrew]

The Rooney Rule implicates essentially all of the common arguments in favor of and against any affirmative action program. I expect these are already pretty well known to everyone. At least in the case of the NFL's version of AA, I found this part of the Wikipedia entry interesting:

The Rule was established to help qualified minority coaches get jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten. Until 1979, Fritz Pollard was the only minority head coach in NFL history (which was during the league's early years in the 1920's) and by the time the Rule was implemented, only Tom Flores, Art Shell, Dennis Green, Ray Rhodes, Tony Dungy, and Herman Edwards had ever held head coaching jobs. (Only Dungy and Edwards were actively head coaching at the time of the Rule's implementation, though Shell and Green would later return to the sidelines as head coaches.) Dungy in particular had struggled for years getting a head coaching job, often being promoted as a head coaching candidate by Chuck Noll when Dungy was an assistant under Noll in the 1980's with the Steelers, but wouldn't become a head coach until 1996 when he took over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Since the Rooney Rule was established, several NFL franchises have hired minority head coaches, including the Steelers themselves, who hired Mike Tomlin before their 2007 season.[2] (The Steelers, however, had already interviewed Ron Rivera to fulfill the Rule before interviewing Tomlin, and Rooney himself contends that Tomlin's hiring did not result from the Rule.)[3] At the start of the 2006 season, the overall percentage of African American coaches had jumped to 22%, up from 6% prior to the Rooney Rule.[4] Even so, the policy is still debated and no team has stated whether the Rooney Rule contributed to the hiring of a minority.

Also a reference to a law journal article which I have not read, but may be worthwhile for those interested in the topic: Time for a Hail Mary? With Bleak Prospects of Being Aided by a College Version of the NFL's Rooney Rule, Should Minority College Football Coaches Turn Their Attention to Title VII Litigation?

Just curious. If the % of black head coaches exceeds the % of blacks in the general population, shouldn't a Richardson rule be put into place where onwer's are required to interview a white candidate?

 

[TWP]

Maybe when black head coaching % outpaces black player %... good luck...

 

[yorbacus]

This may be the whitest thread ever.

 

[GroveDiesel]

It's a total sham and everyone knows it. The NFL and Greg Aiello only backpedaled and allowed it because Snyder pressured them into allowing it. Why couldn't every team in the league interview one minority candidate in-house one time and then say until the end of time that they had already interviewed a minority for the job?

There is nowhere that it requires what you stated --- that candidates can only be interviewed after a vacancy comes up. You're wrong about that and now you're grasping at saying that really was the rule but they won't enforce it that way. You're wrong about that also. You're better off making your arguments without attaching untrue things to them.

Again, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello specifically said that a vacancy was required. It was only later that he changed his story. Everyone else can see how ridiculous it is to allow a team to "interview" candidates weeks before the head coach is even fired. Your Redskins homerism is blinding you.