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Work Situation WWYD (1 Viewer)

belljr

belljr

Footballguy
So in pre COVID days. When we would do a software installation at a site. A couple people from my group would be there for support. We would have a set hours, usually 12 hours a day. Work a little overtime, if issues crop up we would work on them, if everything was good we end the shift go home. We never were called after that unless dire emergency. Any issues would wait until the next morning.

After 2/3 days we go home. And could support from the office if need be.

We are about to do our first large large installation since remote work and back to normal hours. Instead of flying out my manager is asking people to support certain sites.

He asked me about specific dates. I told him I need questions answered before I agree. He was surprised.

First my employment contract states I will never be on call.

My first question was will I be compensated for being on call? He couldn't answer, said something like if you are called we can figure out hours later.

I said what hours overnight for the one day is required. He couldn't answer.

He said it's like onsite support. I told him at no time was on site support 24hours. I'm not sitting around wondering if a call came in. He said well it shouldn't be 24 hours.

I basically told him until you can guarantee my answers/hours/compensation I'm not volunteering for anything....

Was I in the wrong? I know others have just said yes not knowing what they are getting into ....

I'm a team player so won't leave anyone out to dry but I don't like my manager and I'm not doing **** for free.

Eta: I'm also an hourly employee.

Edit2:. I am not worried about my employment if I rock the boat so to speak
 
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It's frustrating when owners/management fail to address pay under new or special circumstances, especially for hourly employees.

I'd say you are perfectly fine to request clarity beforehand. Uncomfortable conversations are a necessity of business and the earlier those happen it is almost always better. Unmet expectations can lead to very bad outcomes when not communicated up front.
 
Work out an on-call contract. They can be quite lucrative. For example, people who work for me in Mexico and UK get paid 10% of their wage for being on-call (plus the hourly wage should they actually be called). Depending on how often you would be called, this can be well worth the hassle.
 
belljr said:
So in pre COVID days. When we would do a software installation at a site. A couple people from my group would be there for support. We would have a set hours, usually 12 hours a day. Work a little overtime, if issues crop up we would work on them, if everything was good we end the shift go home. We never were called after that unless dire emergency. Any issues would wait until the next morning.

After 2/3 days we go home. And could support from the office if need be.

We are about to do our first large large installation since remote work and back to normal hours. Instead of flying out my manager is asking people to support certain sites.

He asked me about specific dates. I told him I need questions answered before I agree. He was surprised.

First my employment contract states I will never be on call.

My first question was will I be compensated for being on call? He couldn't answer, said something like if you are called we can figure out hours later.

I said what hours overnight for the one day is required. He couldn't answer.

He said it's like onsite support. I told him at no time was on site support 24hours. I'm not sitting around wondering if a call came in. He said well it shouldn't be 24 hours.

I basically told him until you can guarantee my answers/hours/compensation I'm not volunteering for anything....

Was I in the wrong? I know others have just said yes not knowing what they are getting into ....

I'm a team player so won't leave anyone out to dry but I don't like my manager and I'm not doing **** for free.

Eta: I'm also an hourly employee.

Edit2:. I am not worried about my employment if I rock the boat so to speak
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The fact that he can't answer the questions means the questions needed to be asked.
 
The fact that you are hourly and you have a contract for no on-call hours means that you have every right to ask those questions. Agree with the above that if you want the hours/money, work on-call into your contract.
 
zamboni said:
The fact that you are hourly and you have a contract for no on-call hours means that you have every right to ask those questions. Agree with the above that if you want the hours/money, work on-call into your contract.
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Nope. I don't want any parts of being on call. But I will gladly sit on a zoom bridge for 8-10-12 hours
 
belljr said:
zamboni said:
The fact that you are hourly and you have a contract for no on-call hours means that you have every right to ask those questions. Agree with the above that if you want the hours/money, work on-call into your contract.
Click to expand...
Nope. I don't want any parts of being on call. But I will gladly sit on a zoom bridge for 8-10-12 hours
Click to expand...
So work FFA time into your contract. Only the most despicable employers would refuse that.
 
gianmarco said:
belljr said:
So in pre COVID days. When we would do a software installation at a site. A couple people from my group would be there for support. We would have a set hours, usually 12 hours a day. Work a little overtime, if issues crop up we would work on them, if everything was good we end the shift go home. We never were called after that unless dire emergency. Any issues would wait until the next morning.

After 2/3 days we go home. And could support from the office if need be.

We are about to do our first large large installation since remote work and back to normal hours. Instead of flying out my manager is asking people to support certain sites.

He asked me about specific dates. I told him I need questions answered before I agree. He was surprised.

First my employment contract states I will never be on call.

My first question was will I be compensated for being on call? He couldn't answer, said something like if you are called we can figure out hours later.

I said what hours overnight for the one day is required. He couldn't answer.

He said it's like onsite support. I told him at no time was on site support 24hours. I'm not sitting around wondering if a call came in. He said well it shouldn't be 24 hours.

I basically told him until you can guarantee my answers/hours/compensation I'm not volunteering for anything....

Was I in the wrong? I know others have just said yes not knowing what they are getting into ....

I'm a team player so won't leave anyone out to dry but I don't like my manager and I'm not doing **** for free.

Eta: I'm also an hourly employee.

Edit2:. I am not worried about my employment if I rock the boat so to speak
Click to expand...
The fact that he can't answer the questions means the questions needed to be asked.
Click to expand...
This was my first reaction as well.

Any half way decent manager should have said "those are all valid questions, let me find the answers out and get back to you"

A crappy manager says "don't worry about it, we will figure it out later"
 
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Not wrong. They’re not your friend. You do a job for an agreed upon amount of money. If they don’t know what that is, they can bounce.
 
My work tried to do the same thing to me. Different field, but asked me to essentially take on another job in addition to my own. I said I would consider it, if I was paid the full salary of the other job as well. They decided to not fill the position at all. 😂.

be polite. Stick to your guns. You’ve done nothing “wrong” or even pushed Any boundaries imho.
 
From a purely contractual sense I take your side, here. On call time should be compensated.
 
Hawks64 said:
@belljr update on the final outcome?
Click to expand...
We'll find out.......

i spoke with my manager. Told him lay out what your expectations are and ill decide. Basically he said i dont need to reschedule any plans so if someone calls and you can't get to your computer to let him know.

So its supposed to start midnight tonight and go until saturday morning. So i was given no directions on hours or nothing. I said ok if I'm not around you'll be available and he said yes. So I'm working my normal day.....

If they can't get a hold of me thats on him, as far as I'm concerned :shrug:

They have another guy that also volunteered and we spoke and he said he didnt have a problem waiting around - i got in his ear a little and he agreed with me but he will never make waves so I'm sure he'll work for free lol :bag:

a little Part of me wants this thing to blow up spectacularly so it can show everyone how awful of a manager he is
 
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I need to figure out how to put in a transfer.

long story short - management declared our group has to be in office 3 days a week.

People complained and filed grievances. I was not one.

The people that filed were just negotiated 2 days a week. I asked for the same and was denied.

I am about to lose my **** but trying to not let emotions run it. I was already unhappy but I need to start looking for a transfer in the agency.

I hate my manager
 
belljr said:
I need to figure out how to put in a transfer.

long story short - management declared our group has to be in office 3 days a week.

People complained and filed grievances. I was not one.

The people that filed were just negotiated 2 days a week. I asked for the same and was denied.

I am about to lose my **** but trying to not let emotions run it. I was already unhappy but I need to start looking for a transfer in the agency.

I hate my manager
Click to expand...

Can you file your own grievance?

I sympathize bell, I have now worked for two REALLY bad managers in my life. Frustrating does not begin to describe it.

One was so bad I took a cut of salary just to get away. It was worth it.
 
At least it's something, still sucks. I'm not impacted but we have much the same situation for individuals on my team. We were told last year that we'll be in the office 3 days a week starting this past holiday-ish. We were told at that same time exceptions have been made but no further exceptions will be granted. Huh? You just told me I have to come back and somehow there were people who submitted for and were granted exceptions before I was even told? Two people on my team, one living in another state and one living many cities away, are both stuck having to make arrangements week-to-week just to keep their jobs because they weren't given the opportunity to file for exception.

Not sure who was at fault, our manager who may have forgot to tell us in time, or HR. Either way, how hard is it to look at a situation and say, yea, let's rectify that situation.
 
belljr said:
So in pre COVID days. When we would do a software installation at a site. A couple people from my group would be there for support. We would have a set hours, usually 12 hours a day. Work a little overtime, if issues crop up we would work on them, if everything was good we end the shift go home. We never were called after that unless dire emergency. Any issues would wait until the next morning.

After 2/3 days we go home. And could support from the office if need be.

We are about to do our first large large installation since remote work and back to normal hours. Instead of flying out my manager is asking people to support certain sites.

He asked me about specific dates. I told him I need questions answered before I agree. He was surprised.

First my employment contract states I will never be on call.

My first question was will I be compensated for being on call? He couldn't answer, said something like if you are called we can figure out hours later.

I said what hours overnight for the one day is required. He couldn't answer.

He said it's like onsite support. I told him at no time was on site support 24hours. I'm not sitting around wondering if a call came in. He said well it shouldn't be 24 hours.

I basically told him until you can guarantee my answers/hours/compensation I'm not volunteering for anything....

Was I in the wrong? I know others have just said yes not knowing what they are getting into ....

I'm a team player so won't leave anyone out to dry but I don't like my manager and I'm not doing **** for free.

Eta: I'm also an hourly employee.

Edit2:. I am not worried about my employment if I rock the boat so to speak
Click to expand...
He's worried about being compensated for his time.......as he spends his work day on a FBG message board. Honestly? You don't sound like a great employee to me. Sorry.
 
belljr said:
i am 2 one week and 3 another.......
Click to expand...
this is such a horribly stupid option for companies to force their employees in to

is there some metric indicating that productivity spikes in the days people are back in the office? if so, why not force people back 5 days a week and if they don't like it then they can leave and be replaced.

is just this corporate America's way of slow-playing the full time reintroduction of office work? people got a taste of remote work and those that love it aren't going back.
 
mr. furley said:
belljr said:
i am 2 one week and 3 another.......
Click to expand...
this is such a horribly stupid option for companies to force their employees in to

is there some metric indicating that productivity spikes in the days people are back in the office? if so, why not force people back 5 days a week and if they don't like it then they can leave and be replaced.

is just this corporate America's way of slow-playing the full time reintroduction of office work? people got a taste of remote work and those that love it aren't going back.
Click to expand...
Its the arbitrariness of it all
 
mr. furley said:
is there some metric indicating that productivity spikes in the days people are back in the office? if so, why not force people back 5 days a week and if they don't like it then they can leave and be replaced.

is just this corporate America's way of slow-playing the full time reintroduction of office work? people got a taste of remote work and those that love it aren't going back.
Click to expand...
I'm sure most companies take the stance that being in the office instills greater collaboration/productivity, but I think that's BS. Happier employees are more productive employees IMO.

To your second point, I think it's absolutely companies getting employees to come back because now they can in a largely tighter job market. As COVID starting getting more and more in the rear view mirror, many companies seemed largely reticent to force people back when the job market was good, and for fear of a bad image. Add in expensive corporate real estate that is going underutilized, it's not surprising that many companies are taking the upper hand.
 
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zamboni said:
mr. furley said:
is there some metric indicating that productivity spikes in the days people are back in the office? if so, why not force people back 5 days a week and if they don't like it then they can leave and be replaced.

is just this corporate America's way of slow-playing the full time reintroduction of office work? people got a taste of remote work and those that love it aren't going back.
Click to expand...
I'm sure most companies take the stance that being in the office instills greater collaboration/productivity, but I think that's BS. Happier employees are more productive employees IMO.

To your second point, I think it's absolutely companies getting employees to come back because now they can in a largely tighter job market. As COVID starting getting more and more in the rear view mirror, many companies seemed largely reticent to force people back when the job market was good, and for fear of a bad image. Add in expensive corporate real estate that is going underutilized, it's not surprising that many companies are taking the upper hand.
Click to expand...
was back at the office for the first time in 3 years last week

near-universal sentiment was "this is terrible and i hate it".

4 of us came back for a work function. i spent far less time actually working at the office than i do at home. we all agreed that being there was going to cause us to be backed up the rest of the week. some because of the commute to/from that cost us time working (for me 4 hours). some because of the temptation to get up and talk to people we hadn't seen in a while. some because the office has a nice cafeteria and outdoor seating which had us all waiting in line for food, then sitting outside to eat and chat vs. being at home working.

not only was my time wasted driving to/from, but i was not happy about having to be there and it got old fast having people interrupt me every so often with either direct conversation, chat over the wall, or just hearing others on meeting calls, etc.
 
mr. furley said:
zamboni said:
mr. furley said:
is there some metric indicating that productivity spikes in the days people are back in the office? if so, why not force people back 5 days a week and if they don't like it then they can leave and be replaced.

is just this corporate America's way of slow-playing the full time reintroduction of office work? people got a taste of remote work and those that love it aren't going back.
Click to expand...
I'm sure most companies take the stance that being in the office instills greater collaboration/productivity, but I think that's BS. Happier employees are more productive employees IMO.

To your second point, I think it's absolutely companies getting employees to come back because now they can in a largely tighter job market. As COVID starting getting more and more in the rear view mirror, many companies seemed largely reticent to force people back when the job market was good, and for fear of a bad image. Add in expensive corporate real estate that is going underutilized, it's not surprising that many companies are taking the upper hand.
Click to expand...
was back at the office for the first time in 3 years last week

near-universal sentiment was "this is terrible and i hate it".

4 of us came back for a work function. i spent far less time actually working at the office than i do at home. we all agreed that being there was going to cause us to be backed up the rest of the week. some because of the commute to/from that cost us time working (for me 4 hours). some because of the temptation to get up and talk to people we hadn't seen in a while. some because the office has a nice cafeteria and outdoor seating which had us all waiting in line for food, then sitting outside to eat and chat vs. being at home working.

not only was my time wasted driving to/from, but i was not happy about having to be there and it got old fast having people interrupt me every so often with either direct conversation, chat over the wall, or just hearing others on meeting calls, etc.
Click to expand...
Having been entirely remote since COVID began (worked at home 2-3 days a week prior to that), it's definitely been isolating and I do actually like going into the office and seeing people on occasion. And by on occasion, I mean like once a month, as it's a very expensive commute and also takes me 4 hours roundtrip. Fortunately, my company allows this minimal attendance in the office (for now). I totally feel for those who are being forced back.
 
So a new one today....... not an issue ... just to show how much I hate think my manager is awful.

We have a weekly staff meeting every Tuesday. Well my manager is hell bent on people having cameras on when at home for this meeting. I use my laptop camera but forget to turn it on here and there. In reality not a big deal to have it on but because of my passive aggressive ways i leave it off just to drive him crazy.

Well today I'm IN THE OFFICE (meeting was moved)..... the thing they keep pimping out WE NEED TO BE HERE..... staff meeting. belljr can you turn on your camera? me: no the laptop is docked in my workstation
him: oh so you need a webcam? me: No I'm at my desk if you need to see me I'm 20 ft away. OR get a meeting room since you know everyone is supposed to be in the office.
him: So you want a webcam? me: :unsure: no..... him: well you really should have one......

WTF - You want me to be on camera when I'm in the office with everyone? GTFO :lmao:
 
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belljr said:
So a new one today....... not an issue ... just to show how much I hate think my manager is awful.

We have a weekly staff meeting every Tuesday. Well my manager is hell bent on people having cameras on when at home for this meeting. I use my laptop camera but forget to turn it on here and there. In reality not a big deal to have it on but because of my passive aggressive ways i leave it off just to drive him crazy.

Well today I'm IN THE OFFICE (meeting was moved)..... the thing they keep pimping out WE NEED TO BE HERE..... staff meeting. belljr can you turn on your camera? me: no the laptop is docked in my workstation
him: oh so you need a webcam? me: No I'm at my desk if you need to seem me I'm 20 ft away. OR get a meeting room since you know everyone is supposed to be in the office.
him: So you want a webcam? me: :unsure: no..... him: well you really should have one......

WTF - You want me to be on camera when I'm in the office with everyone? GTFO :lmao:
Click to expand...

Is this guy a boomer? I've noticed its the boomers who are desperately clinging to the notion of people being in an office. Anecdotally, the ones I've known wanted to be in the office mainly to get away from their wives, so everybody has to commute because of that. Just awful.
 
Scoresman said:
belljr said:
So a new one today....... not an issue ... just to show how much I hate think my manager is awful.

We have a weekly staff meeting every Tuesday. Well my manager is hell bent on people having cameras on when at home for this meeting. I use my laptop camera but forget to turn it on here and there. In reality not a big deal to have it on but because of my passive aggressive ways i leave it off just to drive him crazy.

Well today I'm IN THE OFFICE (meeting was moved)..... the thing they keep pimping out WE NEED TO BE HERE..... staff meeting. belljr can you turn on your camera? me: no the laptop is docked in my workstation
him: oh so you need a webcam? me: No I'm at my desk if you need to seem me I'm 20 ft away. OR get a meeting room since you know everyone is supposed to be in the office.
him: So you want a webcam? me: :unsure: no..... him: well you really should have one......

WTF - You want me to be on camera when I'm in the office with everyone? GTFO :lmao:
Click to expand...

Is this guy a boomer? I've noticed its the boomers who are desperately clinging to the notion of people being in an office. Anecdotally, the ones I've known wanted to be in the office mainly to get away from their wives, so everybody has to commute because of that. Just awful.
Click to expand...
he woudl be teetering on the cutline of X vs Boomer - I don't know exact age but a ballpark of 58-60
 
You had me until the boomer talk. Elon Musk isn’t a boomer and he wants everyone back in the office. We can stop blaming boomers any time now for the world’s problems.
 
Judge Smails said:
You had me until the boomer talk. Elon Musk isn’t a boomer and he wants everyone back in the office. We can stop blaming boomers any time now for the world’s problems.
Click to expand...
I never mentioned Boomer. I just think it's stupid. I got to be on camera in the office. What I'm sitting next to everybody one cube away because we dialed into a meeting
 
I think my next passive aggressive move will just dial in via phone instead of the team's link
 
Judge Smails said:
You had me until the boomer talk. Elon Musk isn’t a boomer and he wants everyone back in the office. We can stop blaming boomers any time now for the world’s problems.
Click to expand...
True, it’s more of a mistrust thing than a generational thing, although because so many senior execs are boomers it comes across that way.
 
Judge Smails said:
You had me until the boomer talk. Elon Musk isn’t a boomer and he wants everyone back in the office. We can stop blaming boomers any time now for the world’s problems.
Click to expand...

I brought up boomers, not the OP. It's been my experience that most if not all of the people I've worked with and friends/family's situations have all been boomers who wanted people back in the office. It's obviously not exclusive to them.
 
zamboni said:
Judge Smails said:
You had me until the boomer talk. Elon Musk isn’t a boomer and he wants everyone back in the office. We can stop blaming boomers any time now for the world’s problems.
Click to expand...
True, it’s more of a mistrust thing than a generational thing, although because so many senior execs are boomers it comes across that way.
Click to expand...
That's the crux of it even though most of us have been doing this job for over 15 years smh
 
The camera is a somewhat interesting issue for me. I'm not sure its a boomer thing or is about being in the office or anything like that. I was invited to a video call by a couple lawyers a few months ago and we had my client's accounting person on the call. We both had video on - she's at home and I'm in my office, both of us dressed casual. The two lawyers both had their cameras off and it felt odd to me - like they were big-timing us. I felt it put us at somewhat of a disadvantage on the call. Hard to describe I guess but since they set up the call, and they decided to make it a Teams/video conference, I thought it was bush-league for them to both have their cameras off. Maybe that's just standard in their world. I haven't been dealing with east coast lawyers much these past couple years.
 
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