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World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

17.14 - John Paul Jones - Military

John Paul Jones was America's first well-known naval fighter in the American Revolutionary War. Although he made enemies among the American ruling class, his actions in British waters during the Revolution earned him an international reputation which persists to this day.

During his engagement with Serapis, Jones uttered, according to the later recollection of his First Lieutenant, the legendary reply to a quip about surrender from the British captain: "I have not yet begun to fight!"

John Paul (he added "Jones" later) was born on the estate of Arbigland near Kirkbean in the Stewartry of Kirkcudbright on the southern coast of Scotland. His father, John Paul (Sr.), was a gardener at Arbigland, and his mother was Jean Duff. His parents married on 29th November 1733 in New Abbey, Kirkcudbright. John Paul started his maritime career at the age of 13, sailing out of Whitehaven in the northern English county of Cumberland, as apprentice aboard the Friendship under Captain Benson. His older brother had married and settled in Fredricksburg, Virginia, the destination of many of the youngster's early voyages.

For several years John sailed aboard a number of different British merchant and slaver ships, including the King George in 1764 as third mate, and the Two Friends as first mate in 1766. After a short time in this business, he became disgusted with the cruelty in the slave trade, and in 1768 he abandoned his prestigious position on the profitable Two Friends while docked in Jamaica. He found passage back to Scotland, and eventually obtained another position.

During his next voyage aboard the brig John, which sailed from port in 1768, young John Paul’s career was quickly and unexpectedly advanced when both the captain and a ranking mate suddenly died of yellow fever. John managed to successfully navigate the ship back to a safe port and in reward for this impressive feat, the vessel’s grateful Scottish owners made him master of the ship and its crew, giving him 10 percent of the cargo. He then led two voyages to the West Indies before running into difficulty. During his second voyage in 1770, John Paul viciously flogged one of his sailors, leading to accusations of his discipline being "unnecessarily cruel." While these claims were initially dismissed, his favorable reputation was destroyed when the disciplined sailor died a few weeks later. Sources disagree on whether he was arrested for his involvement in the man’s death, but the devastating effect on his reputation is indisputable.

Leaving Scotland, John Paul commanded a London-registered vessel, the Betsy, for about 18 months, engaging in commercial speculation in Tobago. This came to an end, however, when John killed a member of his crew with a sword in a dispute over wages. Years later, in a letter to Benjamin Franklin describing this incident, he claimed it was in self-defense, but because he was not to be tried in an Admiral's Court, he felt compelled to flee to Fredericksburg, Province of Virginia, leaving his fortune behind.

He went to Fredericksburg to arrange the affairs of his brother, who had died there without leaving any family; and about this time, in addition to his original surname, he assumed the patronymic surname of Jones, his father’s Christian name having been John. This custom, which is of classical authority, has long been prevalent in Wales, and in various other countries, although it is not usual in that part of the island in which he was born.

His prepossessions became even more in favour of America and were confirmed. From that period, as he afterwards expressed himself to Baron Joan van der Capellen tot den Pol, that became "the country of his fond election." It wasn't long afterwards that John Paul 'Jones' joined the American navy to fight against Britain. He was now safe from his past troubles and he gained a glorious reputation fighting the enemy of America through her navy, an enemy which was already a part of his own personal 'past troubles'.

Sources struggle with this period of Jones' life, especially the specifics of his family situation, making it difficult to historically pinpoint Jones' exact motivations for emigrating to America. Whether his plans for the plantation were not developing as expected, or if he was inspired by a revolutionary spirit, is unknown.

What is clearly known is that Jones left for Philadelphia shortly after settling in America to volunteer his services to the newly-founded Continental Navy, which later became the United States Navy. During this time, around 1775, the Navy and Marines were being formally established, and suitable ship's officers and captains were in great demand. Were it not for the endorsement of Richard Henry Lee who knew of his abilities, Jones' potential would likely have gone unrecognized. With help from influential members of the Continental Congress, however, Jones was the first man to be assigned to the rank of 1st Lieutenant in the Continental Navy on December 22, 1775, on board the Colbert.

Jones' first assignment was aboard the frigate USS Alfred, sailing from the Delaware River in February 1776 to attack British merchant vessels in New Providence. It was aboard this vessel that Jones took the honor of hoisting the first U.S. ensign over a naval vessel. Jones actually raised the Grand Union Flag, not the later and more familiar Flag of the United States. After returning from this successful voyage in April 1776 aboard the Alfred, Jones was assigned command on the USS Providence. Congress had recently ordered the construction of 13 frigates for the American Navy, one of which was to be commanded by Jones. In exchange for this prestigious command, Jones accepted his commission aboard the smaller Providence. During this six week voyage, Jones captured sixteen prizes and created significant damage along the coast of Nova Scotia. Jones’ next command came as a result of Commodore Hopkins' orders to liberate hundreds of American prisoners forced to labor in coal mines in Nova Scotia and also to raid British shipping. On November 1, 1776, Jones set sail in command of Alfred to carry out this mission. While the prisoners enlisted in the British service to end their imprisonment, the mission did result in the capture of the Mellish, a vessel carrying a vital supply of winter clothing intended for John Burgoyne’s troops in Canada.

Despite his successes at sea, upon arrival in Boston on December 16, 1776, Jones' disagreements with those in authority reached a very high new level. While in port, the accomplished commander began feuding with Commodore Hopkins, who Jones believed was hindering his advancement and talking down his campaign plans. As a result of this and other frustrations, Jones was assigned the smaller command, the newly constructed USS Ranger, on June 14, 1777 (the same day the new Stars and Stripes flag was adopted).

After making the necessary preparations, Jones sailed for France on November 1, 1777 with orders to assist the American cause however possible. The American commissioners in France, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Arthur Lee (diplomat), listened to Jones' strategic recommendations. They assured him the command of L'Indien, a new vessel being constructed for America in Amsterdam. Britain, however, was able to divert L'Indien away from American hands by exerting pressure to ensure its sale to France instead (who had not yet allied with America). Jones was again left without a command, an unpleasant reminder of his stagnation in Boston from late 1776 until early 1777. It is thought that it was during this time Jones developed his close friendship with Benjamin Franklin, whom he greatly admired. In 1778, he was accepted, together with Benjamin Franklin, into the Masonic Lodge "Les Neuf Sœurs".

On February 6, 1778, France signed their Treaty of Alliance with America, formally recognizing the independence of the new American republic. Eight days later, Captain Jones' Ranger became the first American Navy vessel to be saluted by the French, with a nine gun salute fired from Admiral Piquet's flagship. Jones wrote of the event: "I accepted his offer all the more for after all it was a recognition of our independence and in the nation."

Finally, on April 10, 1778, Jones set sail from Brest, France for the western coasts of Britain.

After some early successes against British merchant shipping in the Irish Sea, on April 17, 1778, Jones convinced his crew to participate in an assault on Whitehaven, the same town where his maritime career began. Jones was thinking in his later memories about the reluctance of his senior officers (having tactfully avoided such matters in his official report): "Their aim, they said, was gain not honor. They were poor: instead of encouraging the morale of the crew, they excited them to disobedience; they persuaded them that they had the right to judge whether a measure that was proposed to them was good or not." As it happened, contrary winds forced the abandonment of the attempt, and drove Ranger towards Ireland, causing more trouble for British shipping on the way.

On April 20, 1778, Jones learned from captured sailors that the Royal Navy sloop-of-war Drake was anchored off Carrickfergus, Ireland. According to the diary of Ranger's surgeon , Jones' first intention was to attack the vessel in broad daylight, but his sailors were "unwilling to undertake it" (another incident omitted from the official report). Therefore, the attack took place just after midnight, but in the dark (or perhaps because, as Jones claimed in his memoirs, the man was drunk) the mate responsible for dropping the anchor to halt Ranger right alongside Drake misjudged the timing, so Jones had to cut his anchor cable and run.

The wind having shifted, Ranger recrossed the Irish Sea to make another attempt at raiding Whitehaven. Jones led the assault with two boats of fifteen men on April 23 1778, just after midnight, hoping to set fire to and sink all Whitehaven’s ships anchored in harbor (numbering between 200 to 400 wooden vessels), which consisted of a full merchant fleet and many coal transporters. They also hoped to terrorize the townspeople by lighting further fires. As it happened, the journey to shore was slowed by the still-shifting wind, as well as a strong ebb tide. The spiking of the town's big defensive guns to prevent them being fired was accomplished successfully, but lighting fires proved difficult, as the lanterns in both boats had run out of fuel. To remedy this, some of the party were therefore sent to raid a public house on the quayside, but the temptation to stop for a quick drink led to a further delay. By the time they returned, and the arson attacks began, dawn was fast approaching, so efforts were concentrated on a single ship, the coal ship Thompson, in the hope that the flames would spread to adjacent vessels, all grounded by the low tide. Unfortunately, in the twilight, one of the crew slipped away and alerted residents on a harbourside street. A fire alert was sounded, and large numbers of people came running to the quay, forcing the Americans to retreat, and extinguishing the flames with the town's two fire-engines. However, hopes of sinking Jones's boats with cannon fire were dashed by the prudent spiking.

Crossing the Solway Firth from Whitehaven to Scotland, Jones hoped to hold for ransom the Earl of Selkirk, who lived on St Mary's Isle near Kirkcudbright. The Earl, Jones reasoned, could be exchanged for American sailors impressed into the Royal Navy. When the Earl was discovered to be absent from his estate, Jones claims he intended to return directly to his ship and continue seeking prizes elsewhere, but his crew wished to "pillage, burn, and plunder all they could". Ultimately, Jones allowed the crew to seize a silver plate set adorned with the family’s emblem to placate their desires, but nothing else. Jones bought the plate himself when it was later sold off in France, and returned it to the Earl of Selkirk after the War.

Although their effect on British morale and allocation of defense resources was significant, the attacks on St. Mary’s Isle and Whitehaven resulted in no prizes or profits which under normal circumstances would be shared with the crew. Throughout the mission, the crew, led by Jones's second-in-command Lieutenant Thomas Simpson, acted as if they were aboard a privateer, not a warship.

John Paul Jones on a postage stamp.Nevertheless, Jones now led Ranger back across the Irish Sea, hoping to make another attempt at the Drake, still anchored off Carrickfergus. This time, late in the afternoon of April 24, 1778, the ships, roughly equal in firepower, engaged in combat. Earlier in the day, the Americans had captured the crew of a reconnaissance boat, and learned that Drake had taken on dozens of soldiers, with the intention of grappling and boarding Ranger, so Jones made sure that did not happen, capturing the Drake after an hour-long gun battle which cost the British captain his life. Lieutenant Simpson was given command of Drake for the return journey to Brest. The ships separated during the return journey as Ranger chased another prize, leading to a conflict between Simpson and Jones. Both ships arrived at port safely, but Jones filed for a court-martial of Simpson, keeping him detained on the ship.

Partly through the influence of John Adams, who was still serving as a commissioner in France, Simpson was released from Jones' accusation. Adams implies in his memoirs that the overwhelming majority of the evidence supported Simpson’s claims. Adams seemed to believe Jones was hoping to monopolize the mission's glory, especially by detaining Simpson on board while he celebrated the capture with numerous important European dignitaries.

Even with the wealth of perspectives, including the commander's, it is difficult if not impossible to tell exactly what occurred. It is clear, however, that the crew felt alienated by their commander, who might well have been motivated by his pride. Jones believed his intentions were honorable, and his actions were strategically essential to the Revolution. Regardless of any controversy surrounding the mission, Ranger’s capture of Drake was one of the American Navy’s few significant military victories during the Revolution, and was of immense symbolic importance, demonstrating as it did that the Royal Navy was far from invincible. By overcoming such odds, Ranger’s victory became an important symbol of the American spirit and served as an inspiration for the permanent establishment of the American Navy after the Revolution.

 
I have some pretty strong empirical evidence to present after the draft is over for why Jackie O should be #1, but I can't get into it without spotlighting.
Not a chance. I have 8 celebrities that have been drafted easily ahead of her. That number could be 10 depending on how The Virgin Mary and King Tut are judged as celebrities. She's on an even plain with Princess Diana to me. And there are a lot more I'd put ahead of her that haven't been drafted. When you have to argue so hard and use 'empirical evidence' on how much of a celebrity a person is, doesn't that actually diminish the actual celebrity of that person?
Regarding VBD - true to some extent, but unlike FF, the #1 Celeb or Muscian gets the same number of points (100) as the #1 Leader or Military. The kicker analogy doesn't translate for purposes of this draft.Anyway, will revisit after the 440th pick.
It does when you consider that the judging only results in the seeding of the tournament and the FFA vote actually determines the winner. Pretty sure most celebrity showdowns are going to result in a PUSH vote and won't determine the outcome of the match-up (save for the few terrible selections in the category coughANScough)
 
Big Rocks said:
17.11 Joseph Smith, religious person

He's famous for pulling a religion out of his ###:

Joseph Smith, Jr. (December 23, 1805 – June 27, 1844) was the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, also known as Mormonism, and an important religious and political figure during the 1830s and 1840s. In 1827, Smith began to gather a religious following after announcing that an angel had shown him a set of golden plates describing a visit of Jesus to the indigenous peoples of the Americas. In 1830, Smith published what he said was a translation of these plates as the Book of Mormon, and the same year he organized the Church of Christ.

For most of the 1830s, Smith lived in Kirtland, Ohio, which remained the headquarters of the church until the cost of building a large temple, financial collapse, and conflict with disaffected members encouraged him to gather the church to the Latter Day Saint settlement in Missouri. There, tensions between church members and non-Mormons escalated into the 1838 Mormon War. Smith and his followers then settled in Nauvoo, Illinois where they began building a second temple aided by new converts from Europe. After being accused of practicing polygamy, and of aspiring to create a theocracy, Smith encouraged the suppression of a newspaper that had published accusations against him, leading to his assassination by a mob of non-Mormons.

Joseph Smith's legacy includes several religious denominations with adherents numbering in the millions, denominations that share a belief in Jesus but which vary in their acceptance of each other and of traditional Christian beliefs. Smith's followers consider him a prophet and believe that some of his revelations are sacred texts on par with the Bible.
Per my paper's ON THIS DATE section he founded the church today in 1830.
 
Jones may be the worst pick in this draft. The guy barely was draft worthy in the GAD. His reputation is built on one phrase uttered in the only victory of any substance (in which he lost his ship). In a World's Greatest draft, I could easily go a hundred deep in the military category before I would even consider Jones.

 
For anyone who's been following this thread the last couple of days, it should come as no surprise who I'm about to pick. Next to Pele this guy is probably the second most renowned soccer player on an international stage. He has scored two of the most famous goals in soccer history - the Hand of God Goal & The Goal of the Century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal_of_the_Century - in the same game. Yes, he was a coke head, but this only makes him human and does not take away from what he did on the field, and besides it's likely he was getting his yayo from my Villain, which is pretty cool. On an internet poll, he was voted the FIFA Player of the Century.... yes, ahead of Pele.

Diego Maradona - Athlete

Diego Armando Maradona (born 30 October 1960 in Lanús, Buenos Aires) is a former Argentine football player, and current coach of the Argentine national side. He came top in an internet vote for the FIFA Player of the Century award, and shared the award with Pelé.

Over the course of his professional club career Maradona played for Argentinos Juniors, Boca Juniors, FC Barcelona, and, most distinguishedly, Napoli. In his international career, playing for Argentina, he earned 91 caps and scored 34 goals. He played in four FIFA World Cup tournaments, including the 1986 World Cup where he captained Argentina and led them to their victory over West Germany in the final, winning the Golden Ball award as the tournament's best player. In that same tournament's quarter-final round he scored two remarkable goals in a 2-1 victory over England which instantly cemented his fame. The first goal was an unpenalized handball known as the "Hand of God", while the second goal was a spectacular 60-metre weave through six England players, commonly referred to as "The Goal of the Century".

For various reasons, Maradona is considered one of the sport's most controversial and newsworthy figures. He was suspended from football for 15 months in 1991 after failing a doping test for cocaine in Italy, and he was sent home from the 1994 World Cup in the USA for using ephedrine.

After retiring from playing on his 37th birthday in 1997, he increasingly suffered ill health and weight gain, hardly helped by ongoing cocaine abuse. In 2005 a stomach stapling operation helped control his weight gain. After overcoming his cocaine addiction, he became a popular TV host in Argentina.

Although he had little previous managerial experience, he became head coach of the Argentina national football team in November 2008.

Diego Armando Maradona won the 1986 World Cup almost single-handedly and took Argentina to the final four years later. He also took unfancied Napoli to its only two Italian titles. Maradona was controversially voted best player of all time in an internet poll held by FIFA, much to the chagrin of Pelé and his fans, who contended that an internet poll was bound to attract relatively young voters. People that would have seen Maradona play, but not Pelé. :cry:

Truth be told, the title of greatest ever player was probably a bit too much credit. However, no one would surely deny Maradona was the best ever dribbler of the bal. He proved as much, when he scored what was arguably the greatest ever World Cup goal in 1986. Maradona picked up the ball on the halfway line and promptly proceeded to leave half the England team for dead before slotting the ball into the net.

 
For anyone who's been following this thread the last couple of days, it should come as no surprise who I'm about to pick. Next to Pele this guy is probably the second most renowned soccer player on an international stage. He has scored two of the most famous goals in soccer history - the Hand of God Goal & The Goal of the Century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal_of_the_Century - in the same game. Yes, he was a coke head, but this only makes him human and does not take away from what he did on the field, and besides it's likely he was getting his yayo from my Villain, which is pretty cool. On an internet poll, he was voted the FIFA Player of the Century.... yes, ahead of Pele.

Diego Maradona - Athlete

Diego Armando Maradona (born 30 October 1960 in Lanús, Buenos Aires) is a former Argentine football player, and current coach of the Argentine national side. He came top in an internet vote for the FIFA Player of the Century award, and shared the award with Pelé.

Over the course of his professional club career Maradona played for Argentinos Juniors, Boca Juniors, FC Barcelona, and, most distinguishedly, Napoli. In his international career, playing for Argentina, he earned 91 caps and scored 34 goals. He played in four FIFA World Cup tournaments, including the 1986 World Cup where he captained Argentina and led them to their victory over West Germany in the final, winning the Golden Ball award as the tournament's best player. In that same tournament's quarter-final round he scored two remarkable goals in a 2-1 victory over England which instantly cemented his fame. The first goal was an unpenalized handball known as the "Hand of God", while the second goal was a spectacular 60-metre weave through six England players, commonly referred to as "The Goal of the Century".

For various reasons, Maradona is considered one of the sport's most controversial and newsworthy figures. He was suspended from football for 15 months in 1991 after failing a doping test for cocaine in Italy, and he was sent home from the 1994 World Cup in the USA for using ephedrine.

After retiring from playing on his 37th birthday in 1997, he increasingly suffered ill health and weight gain, hardly helped by ongoing cocaine abuse. In 2005 a stomach stapling operation helped control his weight gain. After overcoming his cocaine addiction, he became a popular TV host in Argentina.

Although he had little previous managerial experience, he became head coach of the Argentina national football team in November 2008.

Diego Armando Maradona won the 1986 World Cup almost single-handedly and took Argentina to the final four years later. He also took unfancied Napoli to its only two Italian titles. Maradona was controversially voted best player of all time in an internet poll held by FIFA, much to the chagrin of Pelé and his fans, who contended that an internet poll was bound to attract relatively young voters. People that would have seen Maradona play, but not Pelé. :shrug:

Truth be told, the title of greatest ever player was probably a bit too much credit. However, no one would surely deny Maradona was the best ever dribbler of the bal. He proved as much, when he scored what was arguably the greatest ever World Cup goal in 1986. Maradona picked up the ball on the halfway line and promptly proceeded to leave half the England team for dead before slotting the ball into the net.
Who?
 
Jones may be the worst pick in this draft. The guy barely was draft worthy in the GAD. His reputation is built on one phrase uttered in the only victory of any substance (in which he lost his ship). In a World's Greatest draft, I could easily go a hundred deep in the military category before I would even consider Jones.
Feel free to move him to musician/performer as he would score high marks there . . .
 
Thorn said:
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, especially VBD-wise, but you don't think she's recognizable to those born after, say, 1970? 1980? Really?
I really don't. I don't think even 10% of the people my age (25) or younger would be able to look at that picture and tell you who that was. Would they recognize the name? Yeah, probably. If she was in a picture with JFK, they'd figure out who it was. But a picture of her by herself? No way. I did an informal poll of people my age at my office, only 1 of the 10 knew who she was. And these were all well-educated college graduates. If only 1 out of the 10 of us could recognize her, no chance a higher percentage than that of the less educated would.
First off, the category does not specificy that a person has to be well known well after their death. She was a massive celebrity during her time, there is no debating that. I don't see what a random sampling of people you know has to do with anything. I just asked 5 people, and 3 of them knew who she was. The majority of people I asked recognized her so that must mean I am right. By the way, myself and everyone I asked is 23.
 
Thorn said:
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, especially VBD-wise, but you don't think she's recognizable to those born after, say, 1970? 1980? Really?
I really don't. I don't think even 10% of the people my age (25) or younger would be able to look at that picture and tell you who that was. Would they recognize the name? Yeah, probably. If she was in a picture with JFK, they'd figure out who it was. But a picture of her by herself? No way. I did an informal poll of people my age at my office, only 1 of the 10 knew who she was. And these were all well-educated college graduates. If only 1 out of the 10 of us could recognize her, no chance a higher percentage than that of the less educated would.
First off, the category does not specificy that a person has to be well known well after their death. She was a massive celebrity during her time, there is no debating that. I don't see what a random sampling of people you know has to do with anything. I just asked 5 people, and 3 of them knew who she was. The majority of people I asked recognized her so that must mean I am right. By the way, myself and everyone I asked is 23.
I would argue that if you don't know who Jackie Kennedy is, then defining yourself as a well educated college graduate is a problem, and that college needs to lose its credentials. Not to be mean, but she is pretty much one of the top female icons in our history. Maybe she doesn't deserve the place in our history she has, but she has it anyway.Now, if no one could recognize Bess Truman, that's understandable.

 
Skipped Pick

17.13 John Maddens Lunchbox - time out

17.16 Andy Dufresne - NEXT OTC until 3:42 p.m. EST

MIA - UNAWARE THE DRAFT IS STILL GOING ON

17.17 Herbert The Hippo - On Deck

HAS LOST THE WILL TO LIVE

17.18 BobbyLayne - In the Hole

17.19 Mister CIA

17.20 Abrantes

18.01 Abrantes

18.02 Mister CIA

18.03 BobbyLayne

18.04 Herbert The Hippo

18.05 Andy Dufresne

18.06 thatguy

18.07 Usual21

18.08 John Maddens Lunchbox

18.09 higgins

18.10 Big Rocks

18.11 Mad Sweeney

18.12 Doug B

18.13 DC Thunder/MisfitBlondes

18.14 Thorn

ETA: update time

 
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NO, HE did not.I did.

I'll take it down if thatguy would like me to.

It was a huge controversy.

Dude was FIFA Player of the Century - pretty hard to discount his greatness.

But considering the number of folks who won't know who he is, maybe not.

ETA: Oops, my bad...it was in the writeup.

OC - maybe you and others don't get it. But Hand of God is one of the most famous plays in World Cup history. For better or worse, it is part of Maradona's legacy.

But it hardly detracts from his achievements.

Dude was Barry Sanders on the pitch.

 
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Immaculate Reception (Franco Harris)

The Holy Roller (Raiders - Dave Casper?)

Tuck Rule

etc

Hand of God is the same deal - very, very famous.

Now keep in mind the goal where he goes through six defenders is the same game.

Tore the heart out of England.

 
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Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.

 
Immaculate Reception (Franco Harris)The Holy Roller (Raiders - Dave Casper?)Tuck RuleetcHand of God is the same deal - very, very famous.Now keep in mind the goal where he goes through six defenders is the same game.Tore the heart out of England.
Thanks for the defense BL. :tumbleweed: You've made up for your earlier spotlighting, and then some.
 
Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.
Anna Nicole Smith laughs at John Paul Jones.....
 
Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.
Anna Nicole Smith laughs at John Paul Jones.....
Somewhere Art Rooney is lighting a cigar...
 
Thorn said:
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, especially VBD-wise, but you don't think she's recognizable to those born after, say, 1970? 1980? Really?
I really don't. I don't think even 10% of the people my age (25) or younger would be able to look at that picture and tell you who that was. Would they recognize the name? Yeah, probably. If she was in a picture with JFK, they'd figure out who it was. But a picture of her by herself? No way. I did an informal poll of people my age at my office, only 1 of the 10 knew who she was. And these were all well-educated college graduates. If only 1 out of the 10 of us could recognize her, no chance a higher percentage than that of the less educated would.
First off, the category does not specificy that a person has to be well known well after their death. She was a massive celebrity during her time, there is no debating that. I don't see what a random sampling of people you know has to do with anything. I just asked 5 people, and 3 of them knew who she was. The majority of people I asked recognized her so that must mean I am right. By the way, myself and everyone I asked is 23.
I would argue that if you don't know who Jackie Kennedy is, then defining yourself as a well educated college graduate is a problem, and that college needs to lose its credentials. Not to be mean, but she is pretty much one of the top female icons in our history. Maybe she doesn't deserve the place in our history she has, but she has it anyway.Now, if no one could recognize Bess Truman, that's understandable.
:) You really think needing to recognize Jackie Kennedy is THAT important a piece of educational material? Especially for any non-History major at college? No freaking way. Tell me her biggest accomplishment, please?

 
Thorn said:
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, especially VBD-wise, but you don't think she's recognizable to those born after, say, 1970? 1980? Really?
I really don't. I don't think even 10% of the people my age (25) or younger would be able to look at that picture and tell you who that was. Would they recognize the name? Yeah, probably. If she was in a picture with JFK, they'd figure out who it was. But a picture of her by herself? No way. I did an informal poll of people my age at my office, only 1 of the 10 knew who she was. And these were all well-educated college graduates. If only 1 out of the 10 of us could recognize her, no chance a higher percentage than that of the less educated would.
First off, the category does not specificy that a person has to be well known well after their death. She was a massive celebrity during her time, there is no debating that. I don't see what a random sampling of people you know has to do with anything. I just asked 5 people, and 3 of them knew who she was. The majority of people I asked recognized her so that must mean I am right. By the way, myself and everyone I asked is 23.
I would argue that if you don't know who Jackie Kennedy is, then defining yourself as a well educated college graduate is a problem, and that college needs to lose its credentials. Not to be mean, but she is pretty much one of the top female icons in our history. Maybe she doesn't deserve the place in our history she has, but she has it anyway.Now, if no one could recognize Bess Truman, that's understandable.
I know who she is... I know she's important... I know she was married to JFK (who totally was doing Marylin Monroe on the side)...but i couldn't pick her out of a lineup based upon looks...

 
Immaculate Reception (Franco Harris)The Holy Roller (Raiders - Dave Casper?)Tuck RuleetcHand of God is the same deal - very, very famous.Now keep in mind the goal where he goes through six defenders is the same game.Tore the heart out of England.
I'm not doubting Maradona's greatness. And that other posted video was absolutely incredible.But in making that comparison are you saying that some people contend that the "Hand of God" goal is a legit goal within the rules? Because there are plausible arguments for the three football plays were all legal by the rules. Though some might think that's bs, there's plenty of people who looking at the rules at the time the play was made will agree with the official ruling. Is that the case with "Hand of God"? Or is it famous for Maradona 'getting away' with something there?
 
Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.
Why be such a richard?
 
Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.
really?I mean, he was ranked 18th in the American draft, so he's probably top 100...

and... well... who picked the owner of the Steelers in round 4 of the American Draft? I'd say that's way worse...

plus there's Anna Nichole Smith a couple rounds ago... She's not even the top ranked stripper/porn star/whore on the board (and for reference, none of the ones above her are gonna get picked)

 
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Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.
Anna Nicole Smith laughs at John Paul Jones.....
:) Anna easily takes the mantle of worst pick in the draft.

 
Thorn said:
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, especially VBD-wise, but you don't think she's recognizable to those born after, say, 1970? 1980? Really?
I really don't. I don't think even 10% of the people my age (25) or younger would be able to look at that picture and tell you who that was. Would they recognize the name? Yeah, probably. If she was in a picture with JFK, they'd figure out who it was. But a picture of her by herself? No way. I did an informal poll of people my age at my office, only 1 of the 10 knew who she was. And these were all well-educated college graduates. If only 1 out of the 10 of us could recognize her, no chance a higher percentage than that of the less educated would.
First off, the category does not specificy that a person has to be well known well after their death. She was a massive celebrity during her time, there is no debating that. I don't see what a random sampling of people you know has to do with anything. I just asked 5 people, and 3 of them knew who she was. The majority of people I asked recognized her so that must mean I am right. By the way, myself and everyone I asked is 23.
I would argue that if you don't know who Jackie Kennedy is, then defining yourself as a well educated college graduate is a problem, and that college needs to lose its credentials. Not to be mean, but she is pretty much one of the top female icons in our history. Maybe she doesn't deserve the place in our history she has, but she has it anyway.Now, if no one could recognize Bess Truman, that's understandable.
:) You really think needing to recognize Jackie Kennedy is THAT important a piece of educational material? Especially for any non-History major at college? No freaking way. Tell me her biggest accomplishment, please?
I don't think need has anything to do with it. If you make it through college without seeing enough of Jackie Kennedy that you could recognize her then your college did something wrong.
 
I highlighted it not for it's greatness but for the fact that it's famous. Legal or not, it counted and contributed to his legacy. If that's a mistake so be it.
Besides, it helped to beat England! Points on my scorecard. :thumbup:
Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.
Ouch.<<<< drafted Leaf with the first overall pick (that I traded up for) his rookie year. :bag:

 
For a moment I thought I would be able to save Usual21. He already has 5 Americans. Sadly, however, Jones was born in Scotland, which makes him an eligible choice...

 
Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.
YES!!!! Honestly, I know very little about Military history. Besides, this can't be as bad as that guy who picked Voldemort 1.01 in the Villain draft. 1.01!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I don't think need has anything to do with it. If you make it through college without seeing enough of Jackie Kennedy that you could recognize her then your college did something wrong.
That's a ridiculous statement, Yankee. What contribution to any subject is Jackie O's recognition important? None. Absolutely none. You could take a "U.S. history since WWII" class in college and not broach the subject of Kennedy's wife, let alone see a picture of her. You think a final exam would test on her? I'd love to see that essay question: "Explain how Kennedy's conflicted feelings for his wife Jackie and Marilyn Monroe is a metaphor for the tensions within America's socio-economic classes of the '60s."
 
17.17 - Eleanor Roosevelt - Humanitarian

Even without her marriage to Franklin D. Roosevelt, through whose presidency she revolutionized the position of first lady, Eleanor Roosevelt very likely would have still become one of the greatest women of the 20th Century. As a humanitarian and civic leader (among other roles), her work for the welfare of youth, black Americans, the poor, and women, at home and abroad (through the United Nations that she helped to develop) has yet to be equaled.

Growing up a lonely and shy girl in wealth and comfort, she returned to New York from Allenswood, at 18 with confidence in herself and a conscience of a social nature. Her marriage to Franklin D. Roosevelt (1882-1945), brought her into the world of politics of which she proved a fast learner. When her husband was Assistant Secretary of the Navy during World War I, she supported the war effort by volunteering for the Red Cross. She was also an active member of the women's suffrage movement.

In 1921 when a bout with polio left Franklin Roosevelt crippled, her steadfast encouragement enabled him to return to politics and win the governorship of New York (1929-1933). In the process she became his political surrogate, speaking in his behalf to the citizenry, relaying their feedback to him, and giving her input as well. During this period she also opened the Val-Kill furniture factory in New York to provide job relief to the unemployed and became part owner of Todhunter, an all girls private school in New York City.

When FDR was elected to the presidency, Eleanor Roosevelt reluctantly became first lady, yet she proved a great innovator in this capacity. Her tenure (1933-1945) was the longest only because her husband's tenure as president was the longest, but Eleanor Roosevelt became the first activist first lady. With press conferences and her daily column she kept the public up-to-date on White House policies; in particular the New Deal. She persuaded FDR to create the National Youth Administration (NYA), which provided financial aid to students and job training to young men and women. Her concern for disadvantaged black Americans, prompted her to work closely with organizations such as the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), and in 1939 she resigned from the Daughters of the American Revolution in protest to their preventing black singer xxxxx from performing at Constitution Hall.

After the United States entered World War II, Eleanor Roosevelt channeled her energies into the war effort. She did this first by mustering up civilian volunteerism as assistant director of the Office of Civilian Defense (OCD), and by visiting U.S. troops abroad.

When Franklin D. Roosevelt died in office in 1945, Eleanor Roosevelt's role as first lady was over, but her career was not. She became a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly, specializing in humanitarian, social, and cultural issues. In 1948, she drafted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which affirmed life, liberty, and equality internationally for all people regardless of race, creed or color. Additionally, she helped in the establishment of the state of Israel and attempted negotiations, albeit cautiously, with the Soviet Union (now Russia).

 
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Immaculate Reception (Franco Harris)

The Holy Roller (Raiders - Dave Casper?)

Tuck Rule

etc

Hand of God is the same deal - very, very famous.

Now keep in mind the goal where he goes through six defenders is the same game.

Tore the heart out of England.
Thanks for the defense BL. :thumbup: You've made up for your earlier spotlighting, and then some.
I first got into the WC in 1982, and I was in Europe while the 1986 WC was being played, watched it in a lot of pubs.Its difficult for some Americans to grasp how important it is globally, or what Maradona meant to the sport when he played.

Couple things about FIFA World Cup soccer:

The NCAA Tournament Selection Show usually has a Nielson Rating of around 4.5-6.5 (anyone know how many eyeballs one Nielson point equals?).

The FIFA World Cup Draw (where they put the teams in Groups) draws 320 million viewers.

How many people watch the Super Bowl? 90-something million in the USA, maybe 750 million to a billion worldwide.

FIFA WC averages 1.1 billion per day - for a month.

The Final draws 3 billion viewers.

Futbol dwarfs football.

 
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Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.
really?I mean, he was ranked 18th in the American draft, so he's probably top 100...

and... well... who picked the owner of the Steelers in round 4 of the American Draft? I'd say that's way worse...

plus there's Anna Nichole Smith a couple rounds ago... She's not even the top ranked stripper/porn star/whore on the board (and for reference, none of the ones above her are gonna get picked)
No.First, while he was 18th in the American draft, that does not translate to top 100 military figures ever. I doubt he makes top 500 military figures ever.

Second, Art Rooney, while a terrible pick, was a sports owner and important to the formation of the modern NFL. In a list of American sports figures, he might make top 200, might even edge into top 150. In a list of great military figures, Jones doesn't get close to this.

Third, Anna Nicole Smith was a terrible pick, but she was a very well known celebrity. Again, given the publicity of the modern era, were we to formulate a list of the most famous celebrities ever, I'd say she has a reasonable shot at the top 100.

No matter how you look at it, Jones is a worse pick than either Rooney or Smith. Jones is the worst pick EVER.

 
I don't think need has anything to do with it. If you make it through college without seeing enough of Jackie Kennedy that you could recognize her then your college did something wrong.
Yeah, because everybody remembers for the rest of their lives everyone they ever talk about or see in college classes and remembers what they look like. :shrug: Besides, what the heck kind of college requires all students to take a class where she is talked about? I mean, as a business major or a biology major or a computer science major or a engineering major or a physics major or a religion major or a chemistry major or a computer information systems major or a music major what value is added to their education by knowing what Jackie Kennedy looks like? I think any college that requires every student knows who she is given her limited impact on the history of the world is not close to doing its job. What value does that give the vast majority of students in doing their jobs?
 
Congratulations, Usual 21. There is always someone in these drafts who makes such an impossibly terrible pick so as to make every other selection before and after it look great by comparison. But you, sir, have outdone yourself. John Paul Jones is the Plan Nine From Outer Space of draft picks. Not only is it clearly the worst pick in this draft, it is also by far the worst pick in any draft I have ever seen, on any level, ficticious or otherwise. Even Ryan Leaf would agree.

You have achieved immortality.
really?I mean, he was ranked 18th in the American draft, so he's probably top 100...

and... well... who picked the owner of the Steelers in round 4 of the American Draft? I'd say that's way worse...

plus there's Anna Nichole Smith a couple rounds ago... She's not even the top ranked stripper/porn star/whore on the board (and for reference, none of the ones above her are gonna get picked)
No.First, while he was 18th in the American draft, that does not translate to top 100 military figures ever. I doubt he makes top 500 military figures ever.

Second, Art Rooney, while a terrible pick, was a sports owner and important to the formation of the modern NFL. In a list of American sports figures, he might make top 200, might even edge into top 150. In a list of great military figures, Jones doesn't get close to this.

Third, Anna Nicole Smith was a terrible pick, but she was a very well known celebrity. Again, given the publicity of the modern era, were we to formulate a list of the most famous celebrities ever, I'd say she has a reasonable shot at the top 100.

No matter how you look at it, Jones is a worse pick than either Rooney or Smith. Jones is the worst pick EVER.
:shrug: Not a chance she's in the top 100. Not a freaking chance.

 
Skipped Pick

17.13 John Maddens Lunchbox - ASKED TO BE SKIPPED
I did state that I asked to be skipped today.Pick coming soon.
Sorry JML, that's right, thanks for the reminder (hard to keep track).
Not a dig at you BL, sorry if it came across like that.Thanks for the posts keeping the status up to date.
Not at all.Looks like I'm up, will take a minute to cut and paste. BRB

 

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