World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

[mad sweeney]

14.4 - Anna Nicole Smith - Celebrity

I'll be shocked if both of these pick don't end up being judged 20th in their respective categories.-----------------------------------

ANS is about 4th or 5th in her category right now since half the people in there are not celebrities, despite the fact that she doesn't belong on a list of top 400 celebrities, but the category is tainted so why even bother.

17. Celebrities Could be movie stars, athletes, other famous people. These are the ones who everywhere they go, people recognize them.I think you're half right, they should be recognized while alive, by their physical features.

Celebrity The Virgin Mary

Celebrity Elizabeth I

Celebrity Pope John Paul II

Celebrity Madonna

Celebrity King Tutankhamen

Celebrity Manfred von Richtothen

Celebrity Hugh Hefner

Celebrity Princess Diana

Celebrity Michael Jackson

Celebrity Elvis Presley

Celebrity Anna Nicole Smith

Celebrity Jackie Kennedy Onassis

Celebrity Barack Obama

Celebrity Marilyn Monroe

The way I see it, only 2 for sure and maybe Queen Elizabeth and the Red Baron don't meet that criteria. You can disagree with the criteria, but that's what the category is listed as from the start.

I still say the Pope wins this thing, as long as the judge doesn't agree with your premise that the category is only for useless people.

That's absolutely not my premise. Useless people belong here as well, but that doesn't exclude useful people. I just think the person needs to have recognizable fame while alive and a persons usefulness is secondary to their exposure. Pope and Queen are both stretches to fit and would be much better as WCs. I would rank them below ANS in a "celebrity" category.

You think more people worldwide would recognize ANS than the Pope? He gets to wear his hat. Anna can too if she wants.

I think ANS is more of a celebrity than the Pope. It's not just about numbers. ANS was famous due to her exposure, the Pope was famous because he was the Pope. Who's a bigger celebrity?

 

[timschochet]

Tim - we need a judge to come in here and give clarifying criteria on the Celebrity category. There are clearly two schools of thought on how to eveluate this, one which is inclusive of a broad stretch of world history and one which isn't. I think both sides have valid arguments. In the broader sense, someone like Elizabeth has been famous for 400 years, is pervasive in popular culture, and has iconic imagery so that a picture of her (or someone dressed to look like her) would be instantly recognizable to most people. On the other hand the limitations of mass media during her time limited area in which she would be easily recognized during her life to England and possibly the more educated and wealthy parts of Europe. If we get a judge to specify one or the others, the picks can be moved to wild cards as appropriate.

I haven't heard from Zaxxon since we started. I will PM him and ask him to come in.

 

[Thorn]

ce⋅leb⋅ri⋅ty   /səˈlɛbrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [suh-leb-ri-tee] Show IPA

–noun, plural -ties for 1.

1. a famous or well-known person.

2. fame; renown.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:

1350–1400; ME < L celebritās multitude, fame, festal celebration, equiv. to celebr- (s. of celeber) often repeated, famous + -itās -ity

Synonyms:

2. distinction, note, eminence, stardom.

 

[Thorn]

Tim - we need a judge to come in here and give clarifying criteria on the Celebrity category. There are clearly two schools of thought on how to eveluate this, one which is inclusive of a broad stretch of world history and one which isn't. I think both sides have valid arguments. In the broader sense, someone like Elizabeth has been famous for 400 years, is pervasive in popular culture, and has iconic imagery so that a picture of her (or someone dressed to look like her) would be instantly recognizable to most people. On the other hand the limitations of mass media during her time limited area in which she would be easily recognized during her life to England and possibly the more educated and wealthy parts of Europe.

If we get a judge to specify one or the others, the picks can be moved to wild cards as appropriate.

I haven't heard from Zaxxon since we started. I will PM him and ask him to come in.

Zaxxon is the judge?14.14 Notorious BIG winning

 

[timschochet]

Regarding celebrity:

1. I have pm'ed Zaxxon, who has not been in this since we started, and requested that he come in and explain his criteria.

2. If Zaxxon does not respond, then I will ask for someone new to judge the celebrity category; otherwise I will do it myself. This will also occur for any other category where the judge does not show up.

3. If I am to judge it myself, I would prioritize the picks this way:

People who are famous and instantly recognizable by sight during their lifetime

over

People who are famous during their lifetime

over

People who were not famous during their lifetime.

Personally, I would put NO stock in how much more famous someone is AFTER their lifetime. But this is just my opinion, and how I would judge it. I can't speak for Zaxxon or anyone else that might become the judge. Hope this helps.

 

[krista4]

For what its worth, IMHO, and that may not be worth very much, there is at least a top ten composer available, two top ten painters, two top ten military leaders, two top ten humanitarians, a top ten non-painter artist, one top ten poet/playwright, etc. There are still some steals out there.

One or more in the top ten for novel/short story, too.

14.09 - Anne Rice:championship:

Now someone's going to accuse you of spotlighting.

 

[Fennis]

With some very notable exceptions this draft is much more an American draft than the GAD.

 

[Ozymandias]

With some very notable exceptions this draft is much more an American draft than the GAD.

Riiight. They were only allowed to have FOUR Americans in that draft.

 

[DCThunder]

Regarding celebrity:

1. I have pm'ed Zaxxon, who has not been in this since we started, and requested that he come in and explain his criteria.

2. If Zaxxon does not respond, then I will ask for someone new to judge the celebrity category; otherwise I will do it myself. This will also occur for any other category where the judge does not show up.

3. If I am to judge it myself, I would prioritize the picks this way:

People who are famous and instantly recognizable by sight during their lifetime

over

People who are famous during their lifetime

over

People who were not famous during their lifetime.

Personally, I would put NO stock in how much more famous someone is AFTER their lifetime. But this is just my opinion, and how I would judge it. I can't speak for Zaxxon or anyone else that might become the judge. Hope this helps.

Tim, this is a BS definition of "celebrity". The entire concept of "celebrity" has only been in existence for the past 75 years or so since mass media began and really only existed over the past twenty or so. Queen Elizabeth I wasn't a "celebrity", there was no People Magazine published in 1600 to chronicle every thing that went on at Court for the villager somwhere in Kent, let alone Bavaria. And if during her reign she was known, it was for her acts of leadership or statesmanship, not because she was having an affair with the Duke of York or whoever.So saying that only people who are "famous during their lifetimes" means that only people who've lived since about 1935 are in the running to be judged first in oyoru category. If that were the objective criteria up front, I (and I'm sure others) would have picked their "celebrity very differently. My guy, King Tut was a minor Pharoah, but he was "famous" in Egypt of his time. His remains became "famous" in ours 3,500 years after his death because they are rare and beautiful. But no one outside Egypt ever heard of him when he was alive.

 

[Fennis]

With some very notable exceptions this draft is much more an American draft than the GAD.

Riiight. They were only allowed to have FOUR Americans in that draft.

You dont have to be born in America to have a large impact on American culture.

 

[Fennis]

Regarding celebrity:

1. I have pm'ed Zaxxon, who has not been in this since we started, and requested that he come in and explain his criteria.

2. If Zaxxon does not respond, then I will ask for someone new to judge the celebrity category; otherwise I will do it myself. This will also occur for any other category where the judge does not show up.

3. If I am to judge it myself, I would prioritize the picks this way:

People who are famous and instantly recognizable by sight during their lifetime

over

People who are famous during their lifetime

over

People who were not famous during their lifetime.

Personally, I would put NO stock in how much more famous someone is AFTER their lifetime. But this is just my opinion, and how I would judge it. I can't speak for Zaxxon or anyone else that might become the judge. Hope this helps.

Tim, this is a BS definition of "celebrity". The entire concept of "celebrity" has only been in existence for the past 75 years or so since mass media began and really only existed over the past twenty or so. Queen Elizabeth I wasn't a "celebrity", there was no People Magazine published in 1600 to chronicle every thing that went on at Court for the villager somwhere in Kent, let alone Bavaria. And if during her reign she was known, it was for her acts of leadership or statesmanship, not because she was having an affair with the Duke of York or whoever.So saying that only people who are "famous during their lifetimes" means that only people who've lived since about 1935 are in the running to be judged first in oyoru category. If that were the objective criteria up front, I (and I'm sure others) would have picked their "celebrity very differently. My guy, King Tut was a minor Pharoah, but he was "famous" in Egypt of his time. His remains became "famous" in ours 3,500 years after his death because they are rare and beautiful. But no one outside Egypt ever heard of him when he was alive.

 

[timschochet]

Regarding celebrity:

1. I have pm'ed Zaxxon, who has not been in this since we started, and requested that he come in and explain his criteria.

2. If Zaxxon does not respond, then I will ask for someone new to judge the celebrity category; otherwise I will do it myself. This will also occur for any other category where the judge does not show up.

3. If I am to judge it myself, I would prioritize the picks this way:

People who are famous and instantly recognizable by sight during their lifetime

over

People who are famous during their lifetime

over

People who were not famous during their lifetime.

Personally, I would put NO stock in how much more famous someone is AFTER their lifetime. But this is just my opinion, and how I would judge it. I can't speak for Zaxxon or anyone else that might become the judge. Hope this helps.

Tim, this is a BS definition of "celebrity". The entire concept of "celebrity" has only been in existence for the past 75 years or so since mass media began and really only existed over the past twenty or so. Queen Elizabeth I wasn't a "celebrity", there was no People Magazine published in 1600 to chronicle every thing that went on at Court for the villager somwhere in Kent, let alone Bavaria. And if during her reign she was known, it was for her acts of leadership or statesmanship, not because she was having an affair with the Duke of York or whoever.So saying that only people who are "famous during their lifetimes" means that only people who've lived since about 1935 are in the running to be judged first in oyoru category. If that were the objective criteria up front, I (and I'm sure others) would have picked their "celebrity very differently. My guy, King Tut was a minor Pharoah, but he was "famous" in Egypt of his time. His remains became "famous" in ours 3,500 years after his death because they are rare and beautiful. But no one outside Egypt ever heard of him when he was alive.

First of all, it's a subjective opinion, but it's mine. I pretty much figured that the vast majority of people taken in this category would be modern. I also expected the same of athletes. Should we consider it BS that there's no athletes taken from the 16th century? Some categories lend themselves to the modern era. Your pick of King Tut surprised me. It was an innovative interpretation of the category, and I admire you for making it. But in the final analysis, I think that people who enjoy world wide fame during their lifetime, are aware of it and take advantage of it, are those who should be supreme here.But again, it very likely won't be up to me. It only matters what I think if I end up being the judge.

 

[Thorn]

4 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)

3 Members: Doug B, Fennis, pollardsvision

Doug you're up...

 

[Doug B]

The entire concept of "celebrity" has only been in existence for the past 75 years or so since mass media began and really only existed over the past twenty or so. Queen Elizabeth I wasn't a "celebrity", there was no People Magazine published in 1600 to chronicle every thing that went on at Court for the villager somwhere in Kent, let alone Bavaria. And if during her reign she was known, it was for her acts of leadership or statesmanship, not because she was having an affair with the Duke of York or whoever.

So saying that only people who are "famous during their lifetimes" means that only people who've lived since about 1935 are in the running to be judged first in your category.

Push it back about 50 years, and you've got it right.

 

[DCThunder]

Regarding celebrity:

1. I have pm'ed Zaxxon, who has not been in this since we started, and requested that he come in and explain his criteria.

2. If Zaxxon does not respond, then I will ask for someone new to judge the celebrity category; otherwise I will do it myself. This will also occur for any other category where the judge does not show up.

3. If I am to judge it myself, I would prioritize the picks this way:

People who are famous and instantly recognizable by sight during their lifetime

over

People who are famous during their lifetime

over

People who were not famous during their lifetime.

Personally, I would put NO stock in how much more famous someone is AFTER their lifetime. But this is just my opinion, and how I would judge it. I can't speak for Zaxxon or anyone else that might become the judge. Hope this helps.

Tim, this is a BS definition of "celebrity". The entire concept of "celebrity" has only been in existence for the past 75 years or so since mass media began and really only existed over the past twenty or so. Queen Elizabeth I wasn't a "celebrity", there was no People Magazine published in 1600 to chronicle every thing that went on at Court for the villager somwhere in Kent, let alone Bavaria. And if during her reign she was known, it was for her acts of leadership or statesmanship, not because she was having an affair with the Duke of York or whoever.So saying that only people who are "famous during their lifetimes" means that only people who've lived since about 1935 are in the running to be judged first in oyoru category. If that were the objective criteria up front, I (and I'm sure others) would have picked their "celebrity very differently. My guy, King Tut was a minor Pharoah, but he was "famous" in Egypt of his time. His remains became "famous" in ours 3,500 years after his death because they are rare and beautiful. But no one outside Egypt ever heard of him when he was alive.

First of all, it's a subjective opinion, but it's mine. I pretty much figured that the vast majority of people taken in this category would be modern. I also expected the same of athletes. Should we consider it BS that there's no athletes taken from the 16th century? Some categories lend themselves to the modern era. Your pick of King Tut surprised me. It was an innovative interpretation of the category, and I admire you for making it. But in the final analysis, I think that people who enjoy world wide fame during their lifetime, are aware of it and take advantage of it, are those who should be supreme here.But again, it very likely won't be up to me. It only matters what I think if I end up being the judge.

I noted when I made my athlete pick that "famous athletes" were a mid-20th century invention because there were no reall professional athletes (other than baseball players who were regarded as little more than ruffians) prior to then. Even football or baseball players worked other jobs during their offseasons to make ends meet.Certainly all judging is subjective, but for someone to be a "celebrity" it shouldn't matter if they were a "celebrity" when they were alive. "Celebrity" should be measured by the here and now. Do people recognize the name today, in 2009, regardless of how long that person has been dead should be the determining criteria.

 

[mad sweeney]

ce⋅leb⋅ri⋅ty   /səˈlɛbrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [suh-leb-ri-tee] Show IPA –noun, plural -ties for 1. 1. a famous or well-known person. 2. fame; renown. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Origin: 1350–1400; ME < L celebritās multitude, fame, festal celebration, equiv. to celebr- (s. of celeber) often repeated, famous + -itās -ity Synonyms:2. distinction, note, eminence, stardom.

Well that makes 90-95% of the people drafted eligible

 

[Thorn]

Skipped Pick

14.08 John Madden's Lunchbox

14.12 Doug B - Next Selection

14.13 DC Thunder - On Deck

14.14 Thorn - In the Hole

14.15 Yankee23fan

14.16 Acer FC

14.17 FUBAR

14.18 Arsenal of Doom

14.19 Larry Boy 44

14.20 Mario Kart

15.01 Mario Kart

15.02 Larry Boy 44

15.03 Arsenal of Doom

15.04 FUBAR

15.05 Acer FC

15.06 Yankee23fan

Did Doug leave? Is he on auto skip? Timed out? How com this thing hasn't moved this morning?

 

[Doug B]

4 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)

3 Members: Doug B, Fennis, pollardsvision

Doug you're up...

Yup ... was just catching up....

Here's one of several available textbook Celebrities, spurred on by the then-current breadth of the British Empire. I've read an interesting write-up on this pick that I'll paraphrase here: At the time, there were many performers who were recognized on the streets of New York and London. But this man's exposure reached far enough that he was recognized on the streets of Bombay, of Hong Kong, of Cairo, of Cape Town, and of Melbourne.

And as you'll read below, this guy hit the scene at just the right time in history -- he really caught a few big waves all at once and got catapulted sky-high:

14.12 - Charlie Chaplin, Celebrity

Sir Charles Spencer Chaplin, Jr. KBE (16 April 1889 - 25 December 1977), better known as Charlie Chaplin, was an Academy Award-winning English comedic actor and filmmaker. Chaplin became one of the most famous actors as well as a notable filmmaker, composer and musician in the early to mid "Classical Hollywood" era of American cinema.

Chaplin acted in, directed, scripted, produced and eventually scored his own films as one of the most creative and influential personalities of the silent-film era. His working life in entertainment spanned over 65 years, from the Victorian stage and the Music Hall in the United Kingdom as a child performer almost until his death at the age of 88. His high-profile public and private life encompassed both adulation and controversy. With [several others], Chaplin co-founded United Artists in 1919.

In a review of the book Chaplin: A Life (2008), [the author] writes: "Chaplin was not just 'big', he was gigantic. In 1915, he burst onto a war-torn world bringing it the gift of comedy, laughter and relief while it was tearing itself apart through World War I. Over the next 25 years, through the Great Depression and the rise of Hitler, he stayed on the job. He was bigger than anybody. It is doubtful any individual has ever given more entertainment, pleasure and relief to so many human beings when they needed it the most."

 

[Doug B]

Did Doug leave? Is he on auto skip? Timed out? How com this thing hasn't moved this morning?

Clock's only been on for 15 minutes or so.

 

[Thorn]

Did Doug leave? Is he on auto skip? Timed out? How com this thing hasn't moved this morning?

Clock's only been on for 15 minutes or so.

Sorry - just saw that you and DC were both here discussing and not picking, and I am itching to go after him.

 

[BobbyLayne]

First of all, it's a subjective opinion, but it's mine. I pretty much figured that the vast majority of people taken in this category would be modern. I also expected the same of athletes. Should we consider it BS that there's no athletes taken from the 16th century? Some categories lend themselves to the modern era. Your pick of King Tut surprised me. It was an innovative interpretation of the category, and I admire you for making it. But in the final analysis, I think that people who enjoy world wide fame during their lifetime, are aware of it and take advantage of it, are those who should be supreme here.

But again, it very likely won't be up to me. It only matters what I think if I end up being the judge.

Since we love to use this source in our draft, I'll quote the introduction of the entry:

Celebrity

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A celebrity is a widely-recognized or notable person who commands a high degree of public and media attention. The word stems from the Latin verb "celebrare" but one may not become a celebrity unless public and mass media interest is piqued.

There are degrees of celebrity status which vary based on an individual's region or field of notoriety. While someone might be a celebrity to some people, to others he may be completely unknown.

A global celebrity on the other hand is someone who is known by most people or is a mainstream celebrity. Such celebrities are also known as either a household name or superstar. Another high profile categorisation of celebrity status is the A-list, based on the marketability of celebrities.

Generally speaking, a celebrity is someone who seeks media attention and most frequently have extroverted personalities. The desire to be notable is implied by some to be a part of western culture and more specifically the American Dream as a measure of success. Celebrities that shy away from the public eye or keep a very separate private life are called a reluctant celebrity. On the other end of the spectrum, those that seek out publicity for themselves are often called a media tart whereas those that use their private life as a vehicle for enhanced celebrity status, sometimes desperately, are referred to as a media whore. Examples of this are fake or planned relationships, reality television appearances, celebrity nudity and in extreme cases, scandal or celebrity sex tape.

There are a wide range of ways people can become celebrities, from their profession, appearances in the mass media, beauty or even by complete accident or infamy. Instant celebrity is the term that is used when someone becomes a celebrity in very short period of time.

In some places, someone that somehow achieves a small amount of transient fame through hype or mass media, is stereotyped as a B-grade celebrity. Often the stereotype extends to someone that falls short of mainstream or persistent fame but seeks to extend or exploit it.

In the 20th Century, the insatiable public fascination for celebrities and appetite for celebrity gossip has seen the rise of the gossip columnist, tabloid, paparazzi and celebrity blogging.

I had to redact a few lines; the remainder is chock full of examples from 1927 onward. The article favors the mass media celebrity, a 20th Century invention made possible to technological advance. Our draft has a expanded timeline; I don't have a problem with citing someone like Ben Franklin, who was celebrated in Parisian society as an American curiousity.

Elizabeth I, on the other hand, was an extraordinary leader. The veneration of the Virgin Mary results from a religious tenant that Jesus was born of Immaculate Conception; if divinity is off the table for purposes of Religious Leaders, then why allow miracles? Tutankhamun was not selected because he was a famous Pharoah, but because of public interest in ancient Egypt artifacts.

We have slide pretty far down a slippery slope here...

 

[Abrantes]

When I picked Marilyn Monroe, I figured that the category implied the modern construct of celebrities, with the paparazzi and cult of imagery built around their likenesses and all that jazz. If it was simply intended to be "pick really famous people", it might as well have been a wildcard category, or replaced by something more useful.

 

[BobbyLayne]

When I picked Marilyn Monroe, I figured that the category implied the modern construct of celebrities, with the paparazzi and cult of imagery built around their likenesses and all that jazz. If it was simply intended to be "pick really famous people", it might as well have been a wildcard category, or replaced by something more useful.

That's the crux of the issue IMO.Princess Di and Jackie O fit anyone's definition of Celebrity.Elizabeth I, Mary mother of Jesus and King Tut require a little more creativity.Clarity at the onset of the draft would have been useful.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

When I picked Marilyn Monroe, I figured that the category implied the modern construct of celebrities, with the paparazzi and cult of imagery built around their likenesses and all that jazz. If it was simply intended to be "pick really famous people", it might as well have been a wildcard category, or replaced by something more useful.

Whereas my opinion was that if it was going to be limited to the modern application of celebrity, the category really didn't belong in the draft. Before anyone was picked my celebrity list had Cleopatra, Elizabeth (who obviously was on my leader list also but not as high), and another biblical figure not yet drafted all very high, because their fame and integration into popular culture is both pervasive and enduring. I question how relevant someone like ANS, or honestly even Marilyn Monroe will be in 100 years; however, there is no question that Cleopatra and Elizabeth will still be celebrated. I really don't care how it ends up being judged, I just want a final decision so we can all adjust our lists appropriately and move on.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Please vote in today's G.A.D. matchup:

Poll: Greatest American Draft Playoff # 11

TIA

 

[Andy Dufresne]

14.5 - John The Baptist - MartyrIf you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

 

[Doug B]

To me, celebrity is not merely "being known". It's being visually recognized.

Think of it this way: King Tut is known, but he was never visually recognized anywhere outside of Egypt. What's visually recognized is his golden death mask.

Mary? Never visually recognized widely while alive ... iconic interpretations of her image in art are, on the other hand, visually recognized.

Elizabeth I to me is iffy, but more on the right track, as at least she was the subject of several famous portraits in her lifetime.

Pushing forward in time, Ben Franklin is getting still closer -- though he was essentially a two-continent guy in his lifetime, he was well known enough to have toys and trinkets made in his likeness in Europe.

Advancing in time still further, Charlie Chaplin is one of your earliest celebrities with global visual recognition. Chaplin is to capital-C Celebrity what Cro-Magnon Man is to modern humans.

 

[DCThunder]

This will probably be my final pick in the draft before I turn my master list (such as it is) to misfit blondes who will make my last piskc while I'm on travel.

So I take at 14.13-Cecil John Rhodes-Wild Card

Rhodes, the Colossus of Africa, was the man who bestrood Africa from Cairo to the Cape, was a British industrialist, empire builder and colonialist. He founded DeBeers the diamond company which even today controls 40% of the worlds output of diamonds. He founded Rhodesia, which later became Zambia and Zimbabwe. He wanted to build a railroad from Cape Town to Cairo. He built nations and expanded the British Empire in Africa. He was instrumental in causing the Boer War between the British settlers and the Afrikaaners of Dutch descent and subdued the Zulus and Ndebele in several tribal wars. He was a religious man, but also a rascist and an imperialist.

He created the Rhodes Scholarships for youths from all over the English speaking world to study at Oxfor University, his alma mater. When he died, he was one of the richest men in the world. He was a bad man in many ways, but he was a great man as well.

Wild card slots are valuable, but i want to use one on a fascinating and controversial man. Mark Twain famously said about him: "I admire him, I frankly confess it; and when his time comes I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake."

 

[Thorn]

This will probably be my final pick in the draft before I turn my master list (such as it is) to misfit blondes who will make my last piskc while I'm on travel.

So I take at 13.09-Cecil John Rhodes-Wild Card

Rhodes, the Colossus of Africa, was the man who bestrood Africa from Cairo to the Cape, was a British industrialist, empire builder and colonialist. He founded DeBeers the diamond company which even today controls 40% of the worlds output of diamonds. He founded Rhodesia, which later became Zambia and Zimbabwe. He wanted to build a railroad from Cape Town to Cairo. He built nations and expanded the British Empire in Africa. He was instrumental in causing the Boer War between the British settlers and the Afrikaaners of Dutch descent and subdued the Zulus and Ndebele in several tribal wars. He was a religious man, but also a rascist and an imperialist.

He created the Rhodes Scholarships for youths from all over the English speaking world to study at Oxfor University, his alma mater. When he died, he was one of the richest men in the world. He was a bad man in many ways, but he was a great man as well.

Wild card slots are valuable, but i want to use one on a fascinating and controversial man. Mark Twain famously said about him: "I admire him, I frankly confess it; and when his time comes I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake."

I'm assuming you mean this is your 14.13 pick. I'm also assuming that Doug is still on auto skip, even though he's here. I'm going to write up my 14.14 pick now, if I shouldn't for some reason, please speak now or forever hold your peace.

 

[Ozymandias]

This will probably be my final pick in the draft before I turn my master list (such as it is) to misfit blondes who will make my last piskc while I'm on travel.

So I take at 13.09-Cecil John Rhodes-Wild Card

Rhodes, the Colossus of Africa, was the man who bestrood Africa from Cairo to the Cape, was a British industrialist, empire builder and colonialist. He founded DeBeers the diamond company which even today controls 40% of the worlds output of diamonds. He founded Rhodesia, which later became Zambia and Zimbabwe. He wanted to build a railroad from Cape Town to Cairo. He built nations and expanded the British Empire in Africa. He was instrumental in causing the Boer War between the British settlers and the Afrikaaners of Dutch descent and subdued the Zulus and Ndebele in several tribal wars. He was a religious man, but also a rascist and an imperialist.

He created the Rhodes Scholarships for youths from all over the English speaking world to study at Oxfor University, his alma mater. When he died, he was one of the richest men in the world. He was a bad man in many ways, but he was a great man as well.

Wild card slots are valuable, but i want to use one on a fascinating and controversial man. Mark Twain famously said about him: "I admire him, I frankly confess it; and when his time comes I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake."

Reportedly, his (pretty famous) dying words were: "So much to do, so little time to do it".

 

[FUBAR]

To me, celebrity is not merely "being known". It's being visually recognized.Think of it this way: King Tut is known, but he was never visually recognized anywhere outside of Egypt. What's visually recognized is his golden death mask.Mary? Never visually recognized widely while alive ... iconic interpretations of her image in art are, on the other hand, visually recognized.Elizabeth I to me is iffy, but more on the right track, as at least she was the subject of several famous portraits in her lifetime.Pushing forward in time, Ben Franklin is getting still closer -- though he was essentially a two-continent guy in his lifetime, he was well known enough to have toys and trinkets made in his likeness in Europe.Advancing in time still further, Charlie Chaplin is one of your earliest celebrities with global visual recognition. Chaplin is to capital-C Celebrity what Cro-Magnon Man is to modern humans.

Why are people talking about Ben like he's in the celebrity category? I might put him there, but for now, my celeb is PJP2

 

[DCThunder]

This will probably be my final pick in the draft before I turn my master list (such as it is) to misfit blondes who will make my last piskc while I'm on travel.

So I take at 14.13-Cecil John Rhodes-Wild Card

Rhodes, the Colossus of Africa, was the man who bestrood Africa from Cairo to the Cape, was a British industrialist, empire builder and colonialist. He founded DeBeers the diamond company which even today controls 40% of the worlds output of diamonds. He founded Rhodesia, which later became Zambia and Zimbabwe. He wanted to build a railroad from Cape Town to Cairo. He built nations and expanded the British Empire in Africa. He was instrumental in causing the Boer War between the British settlers and the Afrikaaners of Dutch descent and subdued the Zulus and Ndebele in several tribal wars. He was a religious man, but also a rascist and an imperialist.

He created the Rhodes Scholarships for youths from all over the English speaking world to study at Oxfor University, his alma mater. When he died, he was one of the richest men in the world. He was a bad man in many ways, but he was a great man as well.

Wild card slots are valuable, but i want to use one on a fascinating and controversial man. Mark Twain famously said about him: "I admire him, I frankly confess it; and when his time comes I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake."

I'm assuming you mean this is your 14.13 pick. I'm also assuming that Doug is still on auto skip, even though he's here. I'm going to write up my 14.14 pick now, if I shouldn't for some reason, please speak now or forever hold your peace.

Right. is 14.13 my right spot? I lost track.

 

[Doug B]

Why are people talking about Ben like he's in the celebrity category? I might put him there, but for now, my celeb is PJP2

Wasn't Ben Franklin originally slotted as a Celebrity?In any case, Pope John Paul II is a great Celebrity ... loads of world-wide visual recognition during his lifetime.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

I will weigh in on the celebrity discussion as a non drafter and a non judger. Going into the draft, based on the info in the description, the category is perfect for people like Princess Di, Madonna, Hefner, Elvis, Monroe, Michael Jackson and even Anna Nichole. I think its a bit of a stretch to put someone like the Pope and Elizabeth I in there. Based on the desciption of the category yes they fit, but they would not be considered a celebrity in my eyes. King Tut and Mary do not belong in my opinion. They were not well known at the time of their life and they are not recognizable visually (to what they actually looked like not how we are told they look). To me a celebrity is someone who seeks out that spotlight and uses it to their benefit. Just my interpretation but I think those last 4 I named would be better as wildcards.

 

[Thorn]

I was pegging this for my last round, because I was pretty sure he wouldn't be drafted anywhere else, though maybe WC. However, the recent pick of Obama and the lengthy celebrity debate has forced my hand. I select a person who is a celebrity no matter which defnintion you prefer. Famous during life, famous after his death; a person with real accomplishments but is sometimes accused of not accomplishing enough to justify his fame. He changed the way we see our presidents, and the rest of the world took notice in 1960, and still does today.

14.14 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Celebrity

John Fitzgerald "Jack" Kennedy (May 29, 1917 – November 22, 1963), often referred to by his initials JFK, was the 35th President of the United States, serving from 1961 until his assassination in 1963.

After Kennedy's military service as commander of the Motor Torpedo Boat PT-109 during World War II in the South Pacific, his aspirations turned political. With the encouragement and grooming of his father, Kennedy represented Massachusetts's 11th congressional district in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1947 to 1953 as a Democrat, and in the U.S. Senate from 1953 until 1960. Kennedy defeated then Vice President and Republican candidate (redacted) in the 1960 U.S. presidential election, one of the closest in American history. To date, he is the only Catholic to be president. He was the second-youngest President (after Theodore Roosevelt), and the youngest elected to the office, at the age of 43.[1][2] Kennedy is also the only president to have won a Pulitzer Prize.[3] Events during his administration include the Bay of Pigs Invasion, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the building of the Berlin Wall, the Space Race, the African American Civil Rights Movement and early events of the Vietnam War.

Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963, in Dallas, Texas. (redacted) was charged with the crime but was murdered two days later by (redacted) before he could be put on trial. The (redacted) Commission and the 1979 House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded that (redacted) was the assassin, with the HSCA allowing for the probability of conspiracy. The event proved to be an important moment in U.S. history because of its impact on the nation and the ensuing political repercussions. Today, Kennedy continues to rank highly in public opinion ratings of former U.S. presidents.[4]

 

[Thorn]

This will probably be my final pick in the draft before I turn my master list (such as it is) to misfit blondes who will make my last piskc while I'm on travel.

So I take at 14.13-Cecil John Rhodes-Wild Card

Rhodes, the Colossus of Africa, was the man who bestrood Africa from Cairo to the Cape, was a British industrialist, empire builder and colonialist. He founded DeBeers the diamond company which even today controls 40% of the worlds output of diamonds. He founded Rhodesia, which later became Zambia and Zimbabwe. He wanted to build a railroad from Cape Town to Cairo. He built nations and expanded the British Empire in Africa. He was instrumental in causing the Boer War between the British settlers and the Afrikaaners of Dutch descent and subdued the Zulus and Ndebele in several tribal wars. He was a religious man, but also a rascist and an imperialist.

He created the Rhodes Scholarships for youths from all over the English speaking world to study at Oxfor University, his alma mater. When he died, he was one of the richest men in the world. He was a bad man in many ways, but he was a great man as well.

Wild card slots are valuable, but i want to use one on a fascinating and controversial man. Mark Twain famously said about him: "I admire him, I frankly confess it; and when his time comes I shall buy a piece of the rope for a keepsake."

I'm assuming you mean this is your 14.13 pick. I'm also assuming that Doug is still on auto skip, even though he's here. I'm going to write up my 14.14 pick now, if I shouldn't for some reason, please speak now or forever hold your peace.

Right. is 14.13 my right spot? I lost track.

Yup...

Round Thirteen

8. DC Thunder Modest Mussorgsky

9. Doug B Charles Babbage

10. Mad Sweeney The Grateful Dead

11. Big Rocks Anne Frank

12. higgins Leonhard Euler

13. John Madden's Lunchbox Marie Curie

14. Usual21 William Butler Yeats

15. thatguy B.B. King

16. Andy Dufresne John Williams

17. Herbert The Hippo Giovanni Boccaccio

18. Bobbylayne Enrico Caruso

19. Mister CIA Barack Obama

20. Abrantes Wassily Kandinsky

Round Fourteen

1. Abrantes Tokugawa Iyeyasu

2. Mister Cia Henry Ford

3. Bobby Layne Roald Amundsen

4. Herbert The Hippo Anna Nicole Smith

5. Andy Dufresne John The Baptist

6. thatguy Zheng He

7. Usual21 Tim Berners-Lee

8. John Madden's Lunchbox Epicurus

9. higgins Alexandre Dumas

10. Big Rocks Edward Elgar

11. Mad Sweeney George Marshall

12. Doug B

13. DC Thunder - Rhode

14. Thorn - JFK

Sorry to get pushy. I've been sweating my potential JFK pick since Obama was selected, and all this celebrity debate had me pretty panicked that I'd get sniped. I'll chill now.

 

[Doug B]

I'm also assuming that Doug is still on auto skip, even though he's here.

Not on auto-skip now, no. I'm here ... and I made my pick at 14.12 already

 

[BobbyLayne]

Skipped Pick

NONE

14.15 Yankee23fan - Next Selection, OTC until 11:57 a.m. EST

14.16 Acer FC - On Deck

14.17 FUBAR - In the Hole

14.18 Arsenal of Doom

14.19 Larry Boy 44

14.20 Mario Kart

15.01 Mario Kart

15.02 Larry Boy 44

15.03 Arsenal of Doom

15.04 FUBAR

15.05 Acer FC

15.06 Yankee23fan

15.07 Thorn

15.08 DC Thunder

15.09 Doug B

 

[Doug B]

Round Fourteen

1. Abrantes Tokugawa Iyeyasu

2. Mister Cia Henry Ford

3. Bobby Layne Roald Amundsen

4. Herbert The Hippo Anna Nicole Smith

5. Andy Dufresne John The Baptist

6. thatguy Zheng He

7. Usual21 Tim Berners-Lee

8. John Madden's Lunchbox Epicurus

9. higgins Alexandre Dumas

10. Big Rocks Edward Elgar

11. Mad Sweeney George Marshall

12. Doug B Charlie Chaplin

13. DC Thunder - Rhode

14. Thorn - JFK

Sorry to get pushy. I've been sweating my potential JFK pick since Obama was selected, and all this celebrity debate had me pretty panicked that I'd get sniped. I'll chill now.

Fixed in red above

 

[BobbyLayne]

14.14 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Celebrity

Is that the guy who escorted Jackie to France?

 

[Doug B]

I'm also assuming that Doug is still on auto skip, even though he's here.

Not on auto-skip now, no. I'm here ... and I made my pick at 14.12 already

Just realized I mis-numbered my 14th round pick of Chaplin No wonder you were off base. My apologies.

 

[Ozymandias]

14.14 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Celebrity

Is that the guy who escorted Jackie to France?

Yes, The Jelly Doughnut.

 

[Thorn]

I'm also assuming that Doug is still on auto skip, even though he's here.

Not on auto-skip now, no. I'm here ... and I made my pick at 14.12 already

Just realized I mis-numbered my 14th round pick of Chaplin No wonder you were off base. My apologies.

No worries. Now it makes sense. I thought you were still a round behind, so I was like, do I wait for Doug to make his 14th round pick or not? I think we're all on the same page now. And I got JFK

 

[Thorn]

14.14 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Celebrity

Is that the guy who escorted Jackie to France?

Yes, The Jelly Doughnut.

I don't get it.

 

[Doug B]

Tim, if Zaxxon disappears, I'll volunteer to be Celebrities judge.

 

[krista4]

14.14 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Celebrity

Is that the guy who escorted Jackie to France?

Yes, The Jelly Doughnut.

I don't get it.

"Ich bin ein Berliner." Some people claimed that what he said, when translated, actually meant, "I am a jelly doughnut."

 

[Doug B]

I don't get it.

Ich bin ein Berliner

 

[timschochet]

Tim, if Zaxxon disappears, I'll volunteer to be Celebrities judge.

Thanks Doug. I'll take you up on this if he doesn't show up by the time the picks are done.

 

[Thorn]

I don't get it.

Ich bin ein Berliner

Well that's just silly. Now let's talk about what a great pick I just made.

 

[Ozymandias]

I don't get it.

Ich bin ein Berliner

Well that's just silly. Now let's talk about what a great pick I just made.

Well, he may have been a Jelly Doughnut, but he was a charismatic figure, somewhat reminiscent of Obama today. Popular around the world, he was more celebrity than heavyweight. What ended up elevating him to almost demigod status, was his death. However, prior to his assassination, there was considerable doubt as to whether he would be reelected.