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World's Greatest Draft (3 Viewers)

If someone can find thorn and have him post I have my pick ready. And I'm taking the wife out for food tonight so I'll be gone from 5:20ish until well after she goes to sleep and Battlestar Gallactica is over.

ETA: REading this over, married life is a *****.

 
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If someone can find thorn and have him post I have my pick ready. And I'm taking the wife out for food tonight so I'll be gone from 5:20ish until well after she goes to sleep and Battlestar Gallactica is over.ETA: REading this over, married life is a *****.
Can you PM it to someone? I assume you don't want to PM it to me. I'll be a couple hours before I pick.
 
And Villian is where he may ultimately end up. It also depends on your definition of "leader".

But he did lead the Chicoms to victory in their civil war with the Nationalists, organizae a guerrilla war against Japan, come damn close to beating the US and UN forces in Korea and did beat the US in Vietnam. At the same time he lead China into a modern age. He's a despicable person, equal in evilness to Hitler and Stalin, but while both those guys did have to put down internal threats to their rule, Mao never really did. Anyone who can have 2 billion people spouting his "thoughts" as the one truth is a "leader" in my book.

 
If someone can find thorn and have him post I have my pick ready. And I'm taking the wife out for food tonight so I'll be gone from 5:20ish until well after she goes to sleep and Battlestar Gallactica is over.ETA: REading this over, married life is a *****.
Can you PM it to someone? I assume you don't want to PM it to me. I'll be a couple hours before I pick.
I could. But check your PM. If that doesn't work I will send it to someone.
 
If someone can find thorn and have him post I have my pick ready. And I'm taking the wife out for food tonight so I'll be gone from 5:20ish until well after she goes to sleep and Battlestar Gallactica is over.ETA: REading this over, married life is a *****.
Can you PM it to someone? I assume you don't want to PM it to me. I'll be a couple hours before I pick.
I could. But check your PM. If that doesn't work I will send it to someone.
I'll be around hit me up.
 
If someone can find thorn and have him post I have my pick ready. And I'm taking the wife out for food tonight so I'll be gone from 5:20ish until well after she goes to sleep and Battlestar Gallactica is over.ETA: REading this over, married life is a *****.
Can you PM it to someone? I assume you don't want to PM it to me. I'll be a couple hours before I pick.
I could. But check your PM. If that doesn't work I will send it to someone.
I'll be around hit me up.
I sent my pick to thorn to let him know that if he wasn't going there I would just pick my pick. He hasn't responded yet. I am working on the write up now and will send it to you if he doesn't get back to me.I guess there is a small chance that he steals my pick now that I gave it to him, but such is life. If he ends up taking my guy I do have backups but no time to do write ups.
 
If someone can find thorn and have him post I have my pick ready. And I'm taking the wife out for food tonight so I'll be gone from 5:20ish until well after she goes to sleep and Battlestar Gallactica is over.ETA: REading this over, married life is a *****.
Can you PM it to someone? I assume you don't want to PM it to me. I'll be a couple hours before I pick.
I could. But check your PM. If that doesn't work I will send it to someone.
I'll be around hit me up.
I sent my pick to thorn to let him know that if he wasn't going there I would just pick my pick. He hasn't responded yet. I am working on the write up now and will send it to you if he doesn't get back to me.I guess there is a small chance that he steals my pick now that I gave it to him, but such is life. If he ends up taking my guy I do have backups but no time to do write ups.
Send me your writeup either way. I want to get my hands on the goods before the rest of the world is graced with your eloquence.
 
If someone can find thorn and have him post I have my pick ready. And I'm taking the wife out for food tonight so I'll be gone from 5:20ish until well after she goes to sleep and Battlestar Gallactica is over.ETA: REading this over, married life is a *****.
Can you PM it to someone? I assume you don't want to PM it to me. I'll be a couple hours before I pick.
I could. But check your PM. If that doesn't work I will send it to someone.
I'll be around hit me up.
I sent my pick to thorn to let him know that if he wasn't going there I would just pick my pick. He hasn't responded yet. I am working on the write up now and will send it to you if he doesn't get back to me.I guess there is a small chance that he steals my pick now that I gave it to him, but such is life. If he ends up taking my guy I do have backups but no time to do write ups.
Just read it. Yankee told me his pick, which, even though I'm not sure who I'm taking, it's not going to be that person. So he has my permission to post his pick.For the record, however, I am NOT authorizing others after him to go.
 
Thorn has told me that he isn't going the way I am going so I can jump him here and post mine to make sure I don't hold anyone up. posting now - thatguy you can erase the PM.

 
With my second pick I'm going to take someone whose greatness can be summed up in many ways, but I always found this quote of his to be spot on...... " The uniform, constant and uninterrupted effort of every man to better his condition, the principle from which public and national, as well as private opulence is originally derived, is frequently powerful enough to maintain the natural progress of things toward improvement, in spite both of the extravagance of government, and of the greatest errors of administration."

"Great nations are never impoverished by private, though they sometimes are by public prodigality and misconduct. The whole, or almost the whole public revenue, is in most countries employed in maintaining unproductive hands... Such people, as they them-selves produce nothing, are all maintained by the produce of other men's labour... Those unproductive hands, who should be maintained by a part only of the spare revenue of the people, may consume so great a share of their whole revenue, and thereby oblige so great a number to encroach upon their capitals, upon the funds destined for the maintenance of productive labour, that all the frugality and good conduct of individuals may not be able to compensate the waste and degradation of produce occasioned by this violent and forced encroachment. "

The man who beleived that the natural state of government is to trouble the growth of private wealth in such a way as to stifle productivity and therefore society as a whole is an easy choice for me to make here. Now, granted, I allowed Andy D to push me this way, but I was pretty much already going here. This is a guy I wanted from the start, and I think should be a first round pick. Talk about guys who are the foundation of empires and people. This guy tells those guys how to make their society work.

I select Adam Smith Intellectual, Philosopher and Father of Modern Economics

From the Wealth of Nations.......

Of the Division of Labour: Smith states that "the greatest improvement in the productive powers of labour, and the greater part of the skill, dexterity, and judgment with which it is anywhere directed, or applied, seem to have been the effects of the division of labour." To illustrate this, he describes the extensive division of labour within the "trifling" industry of pin manufacture, along with the astounding resultant productivity, and labourers' dexterity; then levers this as an introductory microcosm of the greater, yet less obvious division of labour in the broader economy. The advantages of this division were likely the driving force behind diversification of the trades and industry, and this diversification was greatest for nations with more industry and improvement. Agriculture is differentiated from industry for its comparative lack of division of labour, and the attendant lack of improved productivity; hence, while poor nations could not compete with rich nations in manufactures, they could compete in agriculture.

Smith lists three causes, arising from division, of improved productivity:

the labourer's dexterity - due to specializing, year-round, in a specific task

time not wasted passing from one task to the next - as in agriculture - as well as the more consistent and focused effort when working in just one area

the machines and tools that have evolved in conjunction with increasingly specialised labour.

Of the Principle which gives Occasion to the Division of Labour: Chapter 2 illustrates the growth in division of labour. Smith hypothesizes that early societies benefited from specialization in a natural and spontaneous way - that an individual may focus on hunting while an other focuses on manufacture (an early trade).

That the Division of Labour is Limited by the Extent of the Market: Chapter 3 deals with limitations on division of labour. Smith illustrates with real world examples of how the extent of market determines the level of division of labour and the resulting productivity improvements; it is the extent of the market that determines the degree to which division of labour can survive - in a limited market, the liability of specialization out weigh the benefits of greater productivity.

Of the Origin and Use of Money: When money was first invented, it was not well regulated, which made agriculture and commodities very difficult between individual owners.

Of the Real and Nominal Price of Commodities, or of their Price in Labour, and their Price in Money: Smith begins by setting out the source of a commodity's value. He states,

"Every man is rich or poor according to the degree in which he can afford to enjoy the necessaries, conveniencies, and amusements of human life. But after the division of labour has once thoroughly taken place, it is but a very small part of these with which a man's own labour can supply him. The far greater part of them he must derive from the labour of other people, and he must be rich or poor according to the quantity of that labour which he can command, or which he can afford to purchase. The value of any commodity, therefore, to the person who possesses it, and who means not to use or consume it himself, but to exchange it for other commodities, is equal to the quantity of labour which it enables him to purchase or command. Labour, therefore, is the real measure of the exchangeable value of all commodities. The real price of every thing, what every thing really costs to the man who wants to acquire it, is the toil and trouble of acquiring it."[2]

This is known as the labour theory of value, a defining feature of classical political economy. Smith then distinguishes between the nominal value of a commodity (in money denomination) and its real value in the labour required to purchase it. According to Smith, while the nominal value of a commodity is subject to fluctuation, this does not change its real value, because the amount of labour required to produce it and bring it to the market remains constant.

For example, the price of a commodity redeemable in silver may be 1:1, as the amount of labour required to produce that commodity is the same as the amount of labour required to retrieve one piece of silver. However, with the discovery of new silver mines in North America, a surge in the supply of silver in the economy may bring the nominal price of the commodity in silver to 1:2. Yet this does not affect the commodity's real value, because the abundance of silver in the newly discovered mines does not suppose a lesser degree of labour required to retrieve them, but simply a greater availability of silver in the market. It is this greater availability that accounts for the deflation of the price; while the commodity is worth just as much labour now as it was before, it will not command as much power in the economy as before. However, if the price were to rise to 1:2 as a result of technological improvements in the manufacture or transport of the commodity, this would constitute a decline in its real value, because less labour is necessary to produce and market it.

Of the Component Parts of the Price of Commodities: Smith argues that the price of any product reflects wages, rent of land and "profit of stock," which compensates the capitalist for risking his resources.

Of the Natural and Market Price of Commodities:

"When the quantity of any commodity which is brought to market falls short of the effectual demand, all those who are willing to pay... cannot be supplied with the quantity which they want... Some of them will be willing to give more. A competition will begin among them, and the market price will rise... When the quantity brought to market exceeds the effectual demand, it cannot be all sold to those who are willing to pay the whole value of the rent, wages and profit, which must be paid in order to bring it thither... The market price will sink..."[3]

To paraphrase Smith, and the first part of this Chapter, when demand exceeds supply, the price goes up. When the supply exceeds demand, the price goes down.

He then goes on to comment on the different avenues that people can take to generate a larger profit then normal. Some of those include: finding a commodity that few other have that allows for a high profit, and being able to keep that secret; Finding a way to produce a unique commodity (The dyer who discovers a unique dye). He also states that the former usually has a short lifespan of high profitability, and the latter has a longer. He also notes that a monopoly is essentially the same as the dyers trade secret, and can thus lead to high profitability for a long time by keeping the supply below the effectual demand.

"A monopoly granted either to an individual or to a trading company has the same effect as a secret in trade or manufactures. The monopolists, by keeping the market constantly understocked, by never fully supplying the effectual demand, sell their commodities much above the natural price, and raise their emoluments, whether they consist in wages or profit, greatly above their natural rate. The price of monopoly is upon every occasion the highest which can be got. The natural price, or the price of free competition, on the contrary, is the lowest which can be taken, not upon every occasion, indeed, but for any considerable time together. The one is upon every occasion the highest which can be squeezed out of the buyers, or which, it is supposed, they will consent to give: the other is the lowest which the sellers can commonly afford to take, and at the same time continue their business."[4]

Of the Wages of Labour: In this section, Smith describes how the wages of labour are dictated primarily by the competition among labourers and masters. When labourers bid against one another for limited opportunities for employment, the wages of labour collectively fall, whereas when employers compete against one another for limited supplies of labour, the wages of labour collectively rise. However, this process of competition is often circumvented by combinations among labourers and among masters. When labourers combine and no longer bid against one another, their wages rise, whereas when masters combine, wages fall. In Smith's day, it should be noted, organized labour was dealt with very harshly by the law.

In societies where the amount of labour is in abundance to the amount of revenue which may be used to pay for waged labour, the competition among workers is greater than the competition among masters, and wages fall; inversely, where excess revenue is in abundance, the wages of labour rise. Smith argues that, therefore, the wages of labour only rise as a result of greater revenue disposed to pay for labour. Labour is the same as any other commodity in this respect thought Smith,

"the demand for men, like that for any other commodity, necessarily regulates the production of men; quickens it when it goes on too slowly, and stops it when it advances too fast. It is this demand which regulates and determines the state of propagation in all the different countries of the world, in North America, in Europe, and in China; which renders it rapidly progressive in the first, slow and gradual in the second, and altogether stationary in the last."[5]

However, the amount of revenue must be increasing constantly in proportion to the amount of labour in order for wages to remain high. Smith illustrates this by juxtaposing England with the North American colonies. In England, there is certainly a greater amount of revenue than in the colonies; however, the wages of labour are lower, because more workers would flock to new employment opportunities to which the large amount of revenue gives occasion, eventually competing against each other as much as they did before. By contrast, as capital continues to be introduced to the colonial economies at least at the same rate that population increases to "fill out" this excess capital, the wages of labour there are kept much higher than in England.

Smith was highly concerned about the problems of poverty. He writes,

"poverty, though it does not prevent the generation, is extremely unfavourable to the rearing of children... It is not uncommon... in the Highlands of Scotland for a mother who has borne twenty children not to have two alive... In some places one half the children born die before they are four years of age; in many places before they are seven; and in almost all places before they are nine or ten. This great mortality, however, will every where be found chiefly among the children of the common people, who cannot afford to tend them with the same care as those of better station."[6]

the only way to decide whether a man is rich or poor only depends on the amount of labour he is able to afford to purchase. "Labour is the real exchange for commodities" P36 <The Harvard Classics Vol. 10>

Smith also describes the relation of cheap years and the production of manufactures versus the production in dear years. He argues that while some examples such as the linen production in France shows a correlation, another example in Scotland shows the opposite. He concludes that there are too many variables to make any statement about this.

Of the Profits of Stock: In this chapter, Smith uses interest rates as an indicator of the profits of stock. This is because interest can only be paid with the profits of stock, and so creditors will be able to raise rates in proportion to the increase or decrease of the profits of their debtors.

Smith argues that the profits of stock are inversely proportional to the wages of labor, because as more money is spent compensating labor, there is less remaining for personal profit. It follows that, in societies where competition among laborers is greatest relative to competition among employers, profits will be much higher. Smith illustrates this by comparing interest rates in England and Scotland. In England, government laws against usury had kept maximum interest rates very low, but even the maximum rate was believed to be higher than the rate at which money was usually lended. In Scotland, however, interest rates are much higher. This is the result of a greater proportion of capitalists in England, which offsets some competition among laborers and raises wages.

However, Smith notes that, curiously, interest rates in the colonies are also remarkably high (recall that, in the previous chapter, Smith described how wages in the colonies are higher than in England). Smith attributes this to the fact that, when an empire takes control of a colony, prices for a huge abundance of land and resources are extremely cheap. This allows capitalists to increase his profit, but simultaneously draws many capitalists to the colonies, increasing the wages of labor. As this is done, however, the profits of stock in the mother country rise (or at least cease to fall), as much of it has already flocked offshore.

Of Wages and Profit in the Different Employments of Labour and Stock: Smith repeatedly attacks groups of politically aligned individuals who attempt to use their collective influence to manipulate the government into doing their bidding. At the time, these were referred to as "factions," but are now more commonly called "special interests," a term which can comprise international bankers, corporate conglomerations, outright oligopolies, trade unions and other groups. Indeed, Smith had a particular distrust of the tradesman class. He felt that the members of this class, especially acting together within the guilds they want to form, could constitute a power block and manipulate the state into regulating for special interests against the general interest:

"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary."[7]

Smith also argues against government subsidies of certain trades, because this will draw many more people to the trade than what would otherwise be normal, collectively lowering their wages.

Chapter 10, part ii, motivates an understanding of the idea of feudalism.

Of the Rent of the Land: Rent, considered as the price paid for the use of land, is naturally the highest which the tenant can afford to pay in the actual circumstances of the land. In adjusting the terms of the lease, the landlord endeavours to leave him no greater share of the produce than what is sufficient to keep up the stock from which he furnishes the seed, pays the labour, and purchases and maintains the cattle and other instruments of husbandry, together with the ordinary profits of farming stock in the neighbourhood. This is evidently the smallest share with which the tenant can content himself without being a loser, and the landlord seldom means to leave him any more. Whatever part of the produce, or, what is the same thing, whatever part of its price, is over and above this share, he naturally endeavours to reserve to himself as the rent of his land, which is evidently the highest the tenant can afford to pay in the actual circumstances of the land. Sometimes, indeed, the liberality, more frequently the ignorance, of the landlord, makes him accept of somewhat less than this portion; and sometimes too, though more rarely, the ignorance of the tenant makes him undertake to pay somewhat more, or to content himself with somewhat less, than the ordinary profits of farming stock in the neighbourhood. This portion, however, may still be considered as the natural rent of land, or the rent for which it is naturally meant that land should for the most part be let.

 
I'm having link issues with my browser. That Wealth of Nations stuff is not all from memory but from Wiki's summary..... don't know what's going on with my browser here. Probably mad at me for pasting something so big....

 
Dont forget Middle East, Indian, SE Asian, sub-Saharan African, Polish, Russian, Celtic....

I guess I dont see how you can credit Augustus with everything that was to become the Roman Empire. I think there are plenty of leaders that were more impressive in their lifetimes than Augustus. And when it comes down to it, many of hte most lasting contributions of Rome can be directly attributed to other people. And like every major power we're discussing other than the US, Rome eventually fell.

Basically, there are a ton of different ways of evaluating the leaders category. I mean, if we're going most influential, Im not picking Augustus as even the most influential Roman Emperor. There are alot of impressive rulers out there, just seems a shame that we should be judging them mainly on how large their Empire eventually became.
That's a major issue that's been in both Greatest threads. The definition of greatness to some is influential. I choose to go with accomplishment during lifetime rather than influence and that was the defining point that veered me towards Auggie. Although there is plenty of overlap, they are most definitely not mutually exclusive.
 
With my second pick I'm going to take someone whose greatness can be summed up in many ways, but I always found this quote of his to be spot on...... " The uniform, constant and uninterrupted effort of every man to better his condition, the principle from which public and national, as well as private opulence is originally derived, is frequently powerful enough to maintain the natural progress of things toward improvement, in spite both of the extravagance of government, and of the greatest errors of administration."

"Great nations are never impoverished by private, though they sometimes are by public prodigality and misconduct. The whole, or almost the whole public revenue, is in most countries employed in maintaining unproductive hands... Such people, as they them-selves produce nothing, are all maintained by the produce of other men's labour... Those unproductive hands, who should be maintained by a part only of the spare revenue of the people, may consume so great a share of their whole revenue, and thereby oblige so great a number to encroach upon their capitals, upon the funds destined for the maintenance of productive labour, that all the frugality and good conduct of individuals may not be able to compensate the waste and degradation of produce occasioned by this violent and forced encroachment. "

The man who beleived that the natural state of government is to trouble the growth of private wealth in such a way as to stifle productivity and therefore society as a whole is an easy choice for me to make here. Now, granted, I allowed Andy D to push me this way, but I was pretty much already going here. This is a guy I wanted from the start, and I think should be a first round pick. Talk about guys who are the foundation of empires and people. This guy tells those guys how to make their society work.

I select Adam Smith Intellectual, Philosopher and Father of Modern Economics

From the Wealth of Nations.......

Of the Division of Labour: Smith states that "the greatest improvement in the productive powers of labour, and the greater part of the skill, dexterity, and judgment with which it is anywhere directed, or applied, seem to have been the effects of the division of labour." To illustrate this, he describes the extensive division of labour within the "trifling" industry of pin manufacture, along with the astounding resultant productivity, and labourers' dexterity; then levers this as an introductory microcosm of the greater, yet less obvious division of labour in the broader economy. The advantages of this division were likely the driving force behind diversification of the trades and industry, and this diversification was greatest for nations with more industry and improvement. Agriculture is differentiated from industry for its comparative lack of division of labour, and the attendant lack of improved productivity; hence, while poor nations could not compete with rich nations in manufactures, they could compete in agriculture.

Smith lists three causes, arising from division, of improved productivity:

the labourer's dexterity - due to specializing, year-round, in a specific task

time not wasted passing from one task to the next - as in agriculture - as well as the more consistent and focused effort when working in just one area

the machines and tools that have evolved in conjunction with increasingly specialised labour.

Of the Principle which gives Occasion to the Division of Labour: Chapter 2 illustrates the growth in division of labour. Smith hypothesizes that early societies benefited from specialization in a natural and spontaneous way - that an individual may focus on hunting while an other focuses on manufacture (an early trade).

That the Division of Labour is Limited by the Extent of the Market: Chapter 3 deals with limitations on division of labour. Smith illustrates with real world examples of how the extent of market determines the level of division of labour and the resulting productivity improvements; it is the extent of the market that determines the degree to which division of labour can survive - in a limited market, the liability of specialization out weigh the benefits of greater productivity.

Of the Origin and Use of Money: When money was first invented, it was not well regulated, which made agriculture and commodities very difficult between individual owners.

Of the Real and Nominal Price of Commodities, or of their Price in Labour, and their Price in Money: Smith begins by setting out the source of a commodity's value. He states,

"Every man is rich or poor according to the degree in which he can afford to enjoy the necessaries, conveniencies, and amusements of human life. But after the division of labour has once thoroughly taken place, it is but a very small part of these with which a man's own labour can supply him. The far greater part of them he must derive from the labour of other people, and he must be rich or poor according to the quantity of that labour which he can command, or which he can afford to purchase. The value of any commodity, therefore, to the person who possesses it, and who means not to use or consume it himself, but to exchange it for other commodities, is equal to the quantity of labour which it enables him to purchase or command. Labour, therefore, is the real measure of the exchangeable value of all commodities. The real price of every thing, what every thing really costs to the man who wants to acquire it, is the toil and trouble of acquiring it."[2]

This is known as the labour theory of value, a defining feature of classical political economy. Smith then distinguishes between the nominal value of a commodity (in money denomination) and its real value in the labour required to purchase it. According to Smith, while the nominal value of a commodity is subject to fluctuation, this does not change its real value, because the amount of labour required to produce it and bring it to the market remains constant.

For example, the price of a commodity redeemable in silver may be 1:1, as the amount of labour required to produce that commodity is the same as the amount of labour required to retrieve one piece of silver. However, with the discovery of new silver mines in North America, a surge in the supply of silver in the economy may bring the nominal price of the commodity in silver to 1:2. Yet this does not affect the commodity's real value, because the abundance of silver in the newly discovered mines does not suppose a lesser degree of labour required to retrieve them, but simply a greater availability of silver in the market. It is this greater availability that accounts for the deflation of the price; while the commodity is worth just as much labour now as it was before, it will not command as much power in the economy as before. However, if the price were to rise to 1:2 as a result of technological improvements in the manufacture or transport of the commodity, this would constitute a decline in its real value, because less labour is necessary to produce and market it.

Of the Component Parts of the Price of Commodities: Smith argues that the price of any product reflects wages, rent of land and "profit of stock," which compensates the capitalist for risking his resources.

Of the Natural and Market Price of Commodities:

"When the quantity of any commodity which is brought to market falls short of the effectual demand, all those who are willing to pay... cannot be supplied with the quantity which they want... Some of them will be willing to give more. A competition will begin among them, and the market price will rise... When the quantity brought to market exceeds the effectual demand, it cannot be all sold to those who are willing to pay the whole value of the rent, wages and profit, which must be paid in order to bring it thither... The market price will sink..."[3]

To paraphrase Smith, and the first part of this Chapter, when demand exceeds supply, the price goes up. When the supply exceeds demand, the price goes down.

He then goes on to comment on the different avenues that people can take to generate a larger profit then normal. Some of those include: finding a commodity that few other have that allows for a high profit, and being able to keep that secret; Finding a way to produce a unique commodity (The dyer who discovers a unique dye). He also states that the former usually has a short lifespan of high profitability, and the latter has a longer. He also notes that a monopoly is essentially the same as the dyers trade secret, and can thus lead to high profitability for a long time by keeping the supply below the effectual demand.

"A monopoly granted either to an individual or to a trading company has the same effect as a secret in trade or manufactures. The monopolists, by keeping the market constantly understocked, by never fully supplying the effectual demand, sell their commodities much above the natural price, and raise their emoluments, whether they consist in wages or profit, greatly above their natural rate. The price of monopoly is upon every occasion the highest which can be got. The natural price, or the price of free competition, on the contrary, is the lowest which can be taken, not upon every occasion, indeed, but for any considerable time together. The one is upon every occasion the highest which can be squeezed out of the buyers, or which, it is supposed, they will consent to give: the other is the lowest which the sellers can commonly afford to take, and at the same time continue their business."[4]

Of the Wages of Labour: In this section, Smith describes how the wages of labour are dictated primarily by the competition among labourers and masters. When labourers bid against one another for limited opportunities for employment, the wages of labour collectively fall, whereas when employers compete against one another for limited supplies of labour, the wages of labour collectively rise. However, this process of competition is often circumvented by combinations among labourers and among masters. When labourers combine and no longer bid against one another, their wages rise, whereas when masters combine, wages fall. In Smith's day, it should be noted, organized labour was dealt with very harshly by the law.

In societies where the amount of labour is in abundance to the amount of revenue which may be used to pay for waged labour, the competition among workers is greater than the competition among masters, and wages fall; inversely, where excess revenue is in abundance, the wages of labour rise. Smith argues that, therefore, the wages of labour only rise as a result of greater revenue disposed to pay for labour. Labour is the same as any other commodity in this respect thought Smith,

"the demand for men, like that for any other commodity, necessarily regulates the production of men; quickens it when it goes on too slowly, and stops it when it advances too fast. It is this demand which regulates and determines the state of propagation in all the different countries of the world, in North America, in Europe, and in China; which renders it rapidly progressive in the first, slow and gradual in the second, and altogether stationary in the last."[5]

However, the amount of revenue must be increasing constantly in proportion to the amount of labour in order for wages to remain high. Smith illustrates this by juxtaposing England with the North American colonies. In England, there is certainly a greater amount of revenue than in the colonies; however, the wages of labour are lower, because more workers would flock to new employment opportunities to which the large amount of revenue gives occasion, eventually competing against each other as much as they did before. By contrast, as capital continues to be introduced to the colonial economies at least at the same rate that population increases to "fill out" this excess capital, the wages of labour there are kept much higher than in England.

Smith was highly concerned about the problems of poverty. He writes,

"poverty, though it does not prevent the generation, is extremely unfavourable to the rearing of children... It is not uncommon... in the Highlands of Scotland for a mother who has borne twenty children not to have two alive... In some places one half the children born die before they are four years of age; in many places before they are seven; and in almost all places before they are nine or ten. This great mortality, however, will every where be found chiefly among the children of the common people, who cannot afford to tend them with the same care as those of better station."[6]

the only way to decide whether a man is rich or poor only depends on the amount of labour he is able to afford to purchase. "Labour is the real exchange for commodities" P36 <The Harvard Classics Vol. 10>

Smith also describes the relation of cheap years and the production of manufactures versus the production in dear years. He argues that while some examples such as the linen production in France shows a correlation, another example in Scotland shows the opposite. He concludes that there are too many variables to make any statement about this.

Of the Profits of Stock: In this chapter, Smith uses interest rates as an indicator of the profits of stock. This is because interest can only be paid with the profits of stock, and so creditors will be able to raise rates in proportion to the increase or decrease of the profits of their debtors.

Smith argues that the profits of stock are inversely proportional to the wages of labor, because as more money is spent compensating labor, there is less remaining for personal profit. It follows that, in societies where competition among laborers is greatest relative to competition among employers, profits will be much higher. Smith illustrates this by comparing interest rates in England and Scotland. In England, government laws against usury had kept maximum interest rates very low, but even the maximum rate was believed to be higher than the rate at which money was usually lended. In Scotland, however, interest rates are much higher. This is the result of a greater proportion of capitalists in England, which offsets some competition among laborers and raises wages.

However, Smith notes that, curiously, interest rates in the colonies are also remarkably high (recall that, in the previous chapter, Smith described how wages in the colonies are higher than in England). Smith attributes this to the fact that, when an empire takes control of a colony, prices for a huge abundance of land and resources are extremely cheap. This allows capitalists to increase his profit, but simultaneously draws many capitalists to the colonies, increasing the wages of labor. As this is done, however, the profits of stock in the mother country rise (or at least cease to fall), as much of it has already flocked offshore.

Of Wages and Profit in the Different Employments of Labour and Stock: Smith repeatedly attacks groups of politically aligned individuals who attempt to use their collective influence to manipulate the government into doing their bidding. At the time, these were referred to as "factions," but are now more commonly called "special interests," a term which can comprise international bankers, corporate conglomerations, outright oligopolies, trade unions and other groups. Indeed, Smith had a particular distrust of the tradesman class. He felt that the members of this class, especially acting together within the guilds they want to form, could constitute a power block and manipulate the state into regulating for special interests against the general interest:

"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary."[7]

Smith also argues against government subsidies of certain trades, because this will draw many more people to the trade than what would otherwise be normal, collectively lowering their wages.

Chapter 10, part ii, motivates an understanding of the idea of feudalism.

Of the Rent of the Land: Rent, considered as the price paid for the use of land, is naturally the highest which the tenant can afford to pay in the actual circumstances of the land. In adjusting the terms of the lease, the landlord endeavours to leave him no greater share of the produce than what is sufficient to keep up the stock from which he furnishes the seed, pays the labour, and purchases and maintains the cattle and other instruments of husbandry, together with the ordinary profits of farming stock in the neighbourhood. This is evidently the smallest share with which the tenant can content himself without being a loser, and the landlord seldom means to leave him any more. Whatever part of the produce, or, what is the same thing, whatever part of its price, is over and above this share, he naturally endeavours to reserve to himself as the rent of his land, which is evidently the highest the tenant can afford to pay in the actual circumstances of the land. Sometimes, indeed, the liberality, more frequently the ignorance, of the landlord, makes him accept of somewhat less than this portion; and sometimes too, though more rarely, the ignorance of the tenant makes him undertake to pay somewhat more, or to content himself with somewhat less, than the ordinary profits of farming stock in the neighbourhood. This portion, however, may still be considered as the natural rent of land, or the rent for which it is naturally meant that land should for the most part be let.
I nominate 1776 as the greatest year in the history of the world (apart from any year which different religions may claim). In that year, we get the greatest document on political freedom, and the greatest document on economic freedom.What a year!

 
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Would've never thought of Adam Smith in a million years. I look around and learn that he does, in fact, have this hefty of a rep in many circles.

 
2.13--Mao Zedong--Political Leader

Since 2 of the Top Three dictators of the 20th century have already been taken, I'll take the third. Mao led the Communist Party of China (CPC) to victory against the Kuomintang (KMT) in the Chinese Civil War, and was the leader of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) from its establishment in 1949 until his death in 1976. Chairman Mao has been regarded as one of the most important figures in modern world history,[1] and named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century.[2]

He is officially held in high regard in China where he is portrayed as a great revolutionary, political strategist, and military mastermind who defeated xxxxxxx in the Chinese Civil War, and then through his policies transformed the country into a major world power. Additionally, Mao is viewed by many in China as a poet, philosopher, and visionary.[3] However, Mao remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious and ever evolving legacy. Critics blame many of Mao's socio-political programs, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, for causing severe damage to the culture, society, economy, and foreign relations of China, as well as a probable death toll in the tens of millions.[4]

From the Long March, to the Great Leap Forward to the Red Guards and the Cultural Revolution and the Little Red Book, Mao brought China kicking and screaming into the modern world. Maoism as a version of Communism was adopted by insurgent movements in may parts of the world.
when I was in school a guy I worked with in the IS department there was from China and one day we talked about Tienemann (sp?) Square and all that stuff...and the view we get is "THOSE EVIL COMMUNISTS!!"

what he said happened is that those people WERE rioting, and even if not doing that, they were causing a public disturbance and something had to be done (even if the reaction was an overreaction)...

that doesn't excuse what happened entirely, but after talking to him I thought of China's communist government as quite a bit less evil than North Korea & Russia's communist governments...

 
I nominate 1776 as the greatest year in the history of the world (apart from any year which different religions may claim). In that year, we get the greatest document on political freedom, and the greatest document on economic freedom.
Establishing a warlike nation with a slave-based economy! Ok, so they don't follow directions so well. The documents are pretty cool though. :popcorn:

 
I probably won't pick again until Monday... :popcorn:

I have my next pick locked and loaded too, and am super excited about it. I doubt it gets sniped. :knocksonwood:

 
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2.13--Mao Zedong--Political Leader

Since 2 of the Top Three dictators of the 20th century have already been taken, I'll take the third. Mao led the Communist Party of China (CPC) to victory against the Kuomintang (KMT) in the Chinese Civil War, and was the leader of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) from its establishment in 1949 until his death in 1976. Chairman Mao has been regarded as one of the most important figures in modern world history,[1] and named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century.[2]

He is officially held in high regard in China where he is portrayed as a great revolutionary, political strategist, and military mastermind who defeated xxxxxxx in the Chinese Civil War, and then through his policies transformed the country into a major world power. Additionally, Mao is viewed by many in China as a poet, philosopher, and visionary.[3] However, Mao remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious and ever evolving legacy. Critics blame many of Mao's socio-political programs, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, for causing severe damage to the culture, society, economy, and foreign relations of China, as well as a probable death toll in the tens of millions.[4]

From the Long March, to the Great Leap Forward to the Red Guards and the Cultural Revolution and the Little Red Book, Mao brought China kicking and screaming into the modern world. Maoism as a version of Communism was adopted by insurgent movements in may parts of the world.
when I was in school a guy I worked with in the IS department there was from China and one day we talked about Tienemann (sp?) Square and all that stuff...and the view we get is "THOSE EVIL COMMUNISTS!!"

what he said happened is that those people WERE rioting, and even if not doing that, they were causing a public disturbance and something had to be done (even if the reaction was an overreaction)...

that doesn't excuse what happened entirely, but after talking to him I thought of China's communist government as quite a bit less evil than North Korea & Russia's communist governments...
I know someone living in China now. He agrees: everything is less evil when nestled inside the womb of The Great Firewall. Did you know the Dali Lama is a Feudal Overlord and master of lies and the Tibetan people love their undeniable Chinese heritage? True. :goodposting:

 
13. DC Thunder - Mao Zedong

14. Thorn - will pick Friday evening

15. Yankee23fan - Adam Smith

16. Acer FC - ON DECK

17. FUBAR - IN THE HOLE

18. Arsenal of Doom - eagerly waiting

19. Larry Boy 44 - eagerly waiting

20. Mario Kart - eagerly waiting

 
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2.13--Mao Zedong--Political Leader

Since 2 of the Top Three dictators of the 20th century have already been taken, I'll take the third. Mao led the Communist Party of China (CPC) to victory against the Kuomintang (KMT) in the Chinese Civil War, and was the leader of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) from its establishment in 1949 until his death in 1976. Chairman Mao has been regarded as one of the most important figures in modern world history,[1] and named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century.[2]

He is officially held in high regard in China where he is portrayed as a great revolutionary, political strategist, and military mastermind who defeated xxxxxxx in the Chinese Civil War, and then through his policies transformed the country into a major world power. Additionally, Mao is viewed by many in China as a poet, philosopher, and visionary.[3] However, Mao remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious and ever evolving legacy. Critics blame many of Mao's socio-political programs, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, for causing severe damage to the culture, society, economy, and foreign relations of China, as well as a probable death toll in the tens of millions.[4]

From the Long March, to the Great Leap Forward to the Red Guards and the Cultural Revolution and the Little Red Book, Mao brought China kicking and screaming into the modern world. Maoism as a version of Communism was adopted by insurgent movements in may parts of the world.
when I was in school a guy I worked with in the IS department there was from China and one day we talked about Tienemann (sp?) Square and all that stuff...and the view we get is "THOSE EVIL COMMUNISTS!!"

what he said happened is that those people WERE rioting, and even if not doing that, they were causing a public disturbance and something had to be done (even if the reaction was an overreaction)...

that doesn't excuse what happened entirely, but after talking to him I thought of China's communist government as quite a bit less evil than North Korea & Russia's communist governments...
I know someone living in China now. He agrees: everything is less evil when nestled inside the womb of The Great Firewall. Did you know the Dali Lama is a Feudal Overlord and master of lies and the Tibetan people love their undeniable Chinese heritage? True. :goodposting:
I realize that (and I think the person I was talking to does, too, as he's been living in America for like 10 years now)...That being said, we all know good and well that our media isn't always 100% honest either... Is China's more dishonest? Yeah... But that doesn't mean we got the whole story too...

"Military brought in to stop rioting in Beijing" sounds a lot less bad than "Military brought in to MASSACRE COMPLETELY INNOCENT PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATORS!!", ya know?

 
2.13--Mao Zedong--Political Leader

Since 2 of the Top Three dictators of the 20th century have already been taken, I'll take the third. Mao led the Communist Party of China (CPC) to victory against the Kuomintang (KMT) in the Chinese Civil War, and was the leader of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) from its establishment in 1949 until his death in 1976. Chairman Mao has been regarded as one of the most important figures in modern world history,[1] and named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century.[2]

He is officially held in high regard in China where he is portrayed as a great revolutionary, political strategist, and military mastermind who defeated xxxxxxx in the Chinese Civil War, and then through his policies transformed the country into a major world power. Additionally, Mao is viewed by many in China as a poet, philosopher, and visionary.[3] However, Mao remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious and ever evolving legacy. Critics blame many of Mao's socio-political programs, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, for causing severe damage to the culture, society, economy, and foreign relations of China, as well as a probable death toll in the tens of millions.[4]

From the Long March, to the Great Leap Forward to the Red Guards and the Cultural Revolution and the Little Red Book, Mao brought China kicking and screaming into the modern world. Maoism as a version of Communism was adopted by insurgent movements in may parts of the world.
when I was in school a guy I worked with in the IS department there was from China and one day we talked about Tienemann (sp?) Square and all that stuff...and the view we get is "THOSE EVIL COMMUNISTS!!"

what he said happened is that those people WERE rioting, and even if not doing that, they were causing a public disturbance and something had to be done (even if the reaction was an overreaction)...

that doesn't excuse what happened entirely, but after talking to him I thought of China's communist government as quite a bit less evil than North Korea & Russia's communist governments...
I know someone living in China now. He agrees: everything is less evil when nestled inside the womb of The Great Firewall. Did you know the Dali Lama is a Feudal Overlord and master of lies and the Tibetan people love their undeniable Chinese heritage? True. :goodposting:
I realize that (and I think the person I was talking to does, too, as he's been living in America for like 10 years now)...That being said, we all know good and well that our media isn't always 100% honest either... Is China's more dishonest? Yeah... But that doesn't mean we got the whole story too...

"Military brought in to stop rioting in Beijing" sounds a lot less bad than "Military brought in to MASSACRE COMPLETELY INNOCENT PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATORS!!", ya know?
This year marks 20 years since that happened.
 
13. DC Thunder - Mao Zedong

14. Thorn - will pick Friday evening

15. Yankee23fan - Adam Smith

16. Acer FC - ON DECK

17. FUBAR - IN THE HOLE

18. Arsenal of Doom - eagerly waiting

19. Larry Boy 44 - eagerly waiting

20. Mario Kart - eagerly waiting
I wonder what out of the box choice Mario Kart will make? Greatest athlete--Greta Vassinski, world greatest synchronized swimmer?Hey, we need some out of the box thinking...

 
13. DC Thunder - Mao Zedong

14. Thorn - will pick Friday evening

15. Yankee23fan - Adam Smith

16. Acer FC - ON DECK

17. FUBAR - IN THE HOLE

18. Arsenal of Doom - eagerly waiting

19. Larry Boy 44 - eagerly waiting

20. Mario Kart - eagerly waiting
I wonder what out of the box choice Mario Kart will make? Greatest athlete--Greta Vassinski, world greatest synchronized swimmer?Hey, we need some out of the box thinking...
I have a couple in mind that would get the "way to early" moniker, probably.
 
2.13--Mao Zedong--Political Leader

Since 2 of the Top Three dictators of the 20th century have already been taken, I'll take the third. Mao led the Communist Party of China (CPC) to victory against the Kuomintang (KMT) in the Chinese Civil War, and was the leader of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) from its establishment in 1949 until his death in 1976. Chairman Mao has been regarded as one of the most important figures in modern world history,[1] and named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century.[2]

He is officially held in high regard in China where he is portrayed as a great revolutionary, political strategist, and military mastermind who defeated xxxxxxx in the Chinese Civil War, and then through his policies transformed the country into a major world power. Additionally, Mao is viewed by many in China as a poet, philosopher, and visionary.[3] However, Mao remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious and ever evolving legacy. Critics blame many of Mao's socio-political programs, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, for causing severe damage to the culture, society, economy, and foreign relations of China, as well as a probable death toll in the tens of millions.[4]

From the Long March, to the Great Leap Forward to the Red Guards and the Cultural Revolution and the Little Red Book, Mao brought China kicking and screaming into the modern world. Maoism as a version of Communism was adopted by insurgent movements in may parts of the world.
when I was in school a guy I worked with in the IS department there was from China and one day we talked about Tienemann (sp?) Square and all that stuff...and the view we get is "THOSE EVIL COMMUNISTS!!"

what he said happened is that those people WERE rioting, and even if not doing that, they were causing a public disturbance and something had to be done (even if the reaction was an overreaction)...

that doesn't excuse what happened entirely, but after talking to him I thought of China's communist government as quite a bit less evil than North Korea & Russia's communist governments...
I know someone living in China now. He agrees: everything is less evil when nestled inside the womb of The Great Firewall. Did you know the Dali Lama is a Feudal Overlord and master of lies and the Tibetan people love their undeniable Chinese heritage? True. :)
I realize that (and I think the person I was talking to does, too, as he's been living in America for like 10 years now)...That being said, we all know good and well that our media isn't always 100% honest either... Is China's more dishonest? Yeah... But that doesn't mean we got the whole story too...

"Military brought in to stop rioting in Beijing" sounds a lot less bad than "Military brought in to MASSACRE COMPLETELY INNOCENT PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATORS!!", ya know?
Pictures are worth 1,000 words.
 
2.13--Mao Zedong--Political Leader

Since 2 of the Top Three dictators of the 20th century have already been taken, I'll take the third. Mao led the Communist Party of China (CPC) to victory against the Kuomintang (KMT) in the Chinese Civil War, and was the leader of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) from its establishment in 1949 until his death in 1976. Chairman Mao has been regarded as one of the most important figures in modern world history,[1] and named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century.[2]

He is officially held in high regard in China where he is portrayed as a great revolutionary, political strategist, and military mastermind who defeated xxxxxxx in the Chinese Civil War, and then through his policies transformed the country into a major world power. Additionally, Mao is viewed by many in China as a poet, philosopher, and visionary.[3] However, Mao remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious and ever evolving legacy. Critics blame many of Mao's socio-political programs, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, for causing severe damage to the culture, society, economy, and foreign relations of China, as well as a probable death toll in the tens of millions.[4]

From the Long March, to the Great Leap Forward to the Red Guards and the Cultural Revolution and the Little Red Book, Mao brought China kicking and screaming into the modern world. Maoism as a version of Communism was adopted by insurgent movements in may parts of the world.
when I was in school a guy I worked with in the IS department there was from China and one day we talked about Tienemann (sp?) Square and all that stuff...and the view we get is "THOSE EVIL COMMUNISTS!!"

what he said happened is that those people WERE rioting, and even if not doing that, they were causing a public disturbance and something had to be done (even if the reaction was an overreaction)...

that doesn't excuse what happened entirely, but after talking to him I thought of China's communist government as quite a bit less evil than North Korea & Russia's communist governments...
I know someone living in China now. He agrees: everything is less evil when nestled inside the womb of The Great Firewall. Did you know the Dali Lama is a Feudal Overlord and master of lies and the Tibetan people love their undeniable Chinese heritage? True. :)
I realize that (and I think the person I was talking to does, too, as he's been living in America for like 10 years now)...That being said, we all know good and well that our media isn't always 100% honest either... Is China's more dishonest? Yeah... But that doesn't mean we got the whole story too...

"Military brought in to stop rioting in Beijing" sounds a lot less bad than "Military brought in to MASSACRE COMPLETELY INNOCENT PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATORS!!", ya know?
Pictures are worth 1,000 words.
I know he wont be, but that dude deserves to be drafted.
 
Pictures are worth 1,000 words.
I wonder if China will ever become a democracy... even a little bit with elections and such. I think Cuba is on its way when the Castro bros. pass away. But, China has a billion people and that is a lot of minds to change. Same goes for Russia. Will we get a Tiananmen Square #2?
 
2.13--Mao Zedong--Political Leader

Since 2 of the Top Three dictators of the 20th century have already been taken, I'll take the third. Mao led the Communist Party of China (CPC) to victory against the Kuomintang (KMT) in the Chinese Civil War, and was the leader of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) from its establishment in 1949 until his death in 1976. Chairman Mao has been regarded as one of the most important figures in modern world history,[1] and named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century.[2]

He is officially held in high regard in China where he is portrayed as a great revolutionary, political strategist, and military mastermind who defeated xxxxxxx in the Chinese Civil War, and then through his policies transformed the country into a major world power. Additionally, Mao is viewed by many in China as a poet, philosopher, and visionary.[3] However, Mao remains a controversial figure to this day, with a contentious and ever evolving legacy. Critics blame many of Mao's socio-political programs, such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, for causing severe damage to the culture, society, economy, and foreign relations of China, as well as a probable death toll in the tens of millions.[4]

From the Long March, to the Great Leap Forward to the Red Guards and the Cultural Revolution and the Little Red Book, Mao brought China kicking and screaming into the modern world. Maoism as a version of Communism was adopted by insurgent movements in may parts of the world.
when I was in school a guy I worked with in the IS department there was from China and one day we talked about Tienemann (sp?) Square and all that stuff...and the view we get is "THOSE EVIL COMMUNISTS!!"

what he said happened is that those people WERE rioting, and even if not doing that, they were causing a public disturbance and something had to be done (even if the reaction was an overreaction)...

that doesn't excuse what happened entirely, but after talking to him I thought of China's communist government as quite a bit less evil than North Korea & Russia's communist governments...
I know someone living in China now. He agrees: everything is less evil when nestled inside the womb of The Great Firewall. Did you know the Dali Lama is a Feudal Overlord and master of lies and the Tibetan people love their undeniable Chinese heritage? True. :)
I realize that (and I think the person I was talking to does, too, as he's been living in America for like 10 years now)...That being said, we all know good and well that our media isn't always 100% honest either... Is China's more dishonest? Yeah... But that doesn't mean we got the whole story too...

"Military brought in to stop rioting in Beijing" sounds a lot less bad than "Military brought in to MASSACRE COMPLETELY INNOCENT PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATORS!!", ya know?
Pictures are worth 1,000 words.
except that picture is saying 1,000 words that don't really tell us much other than that that idiot decided to stand in front of tanks...I mean...

how'd he get there?

why/when were the tanks called in?

what was the crowd doing exactly?

was any portion of the crowd violent?

there's too many questions and, sadly, both sides are way too biased to ever know what really happened...

 
I'm off to work an all nighter on a Downtown LA rooftop so the viewing public can have Without A Trace. I can't imagine it will get back to me anytime before tomorrow afternoon, but that's also when I'll be getting up, and i won't be doing a damn thing until I watch the finale of BSG, so don't expect a pick from me until mid afternoon to evening PST if it comes to me.

 
Pictures are worth 1,000 words.
I wonder if China will ever become a democracy... even a little bit with elections and such. I think Cuba is on its way when the Castro bros. pass away. But, China has a billion people and that is a lot of minds to change. Same goes for Russia. Will we get a Tiananmen Square #2?
IMO, the Chinese people do not want an abrupt change, they want freedom and a democratic government, but only when they think they are ready for it. One of the biggest problems they face now is they have created a society that has disperant income, but with little upward mobility. That makes the masses restless.
 
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this is f'in weird.

I post at home and see one avatar, I post at work and see the other.

The avatar I see at home, I uploaded from work.

Which avatar do you all see of mine?

 
If I had been here, I would have asked Yankee not to pick until Thorn does. I know it's aggravating, but I'd like to keep the order up without skips until Monday. But it's all good, I guess.

I'm glad that Yankee took Adam Smith though; he was the sort of guy I had in mind when I made this category. But it's going to be a very difficult category to judge because there are all sorts of intellectuals of different sorts.

Even among the subcategory of political intellectuals, I'm not sure that Adam Smith is the first guy I would have taken. But he's certainly up there.

Mao is a leader and a villain. Stalin and Hitler could have been taken as leaders as well. But by any standard Mao is an important and worthy selection.

 
With so many good names to choose from on the world stage, I agree with Tim's earlier sentiment that one would have to try, I mean really try, to make a bad pick. On my shortlist alone I have a good 50 names right now, all of whom I think would be worthy selections at this point in the draft.

 

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