Abrantes
Footballguy
Pro at work.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
Just waiting for Larry's pick, after which I am going to bed.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
I've half wrote like four writeups already...actually decided on like 6 or 7 different picks...ugh... indecision sucks...
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
I'll have mine in like 2 seconds after him, then I'm going to bed too.
timschochet
Footballguy
Sorry, I need to crash. Take all the time you need, Larry. If you and Arsenal make picks, I'll update and comment in the morning.
Good night, everybody!
Good night, everybody!
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
sorry I think I'm on decision number 40 right now...
Mario Kart
Footballguy
PM picks if you need to get to bed. I will be here for some time.
Fennis
Footballguy
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
that was the 5th or 6th time I had a writeup half done...I've since written a few others, re-written a couple...it is coming... soon... lol
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
3.02 Homer, poet/playwright
Author of the Iliad and the Odyssey and the Homeric Hymns...
The Iliad is the oldest piece of Western Literature...
Author of the Iliad and the Odyssey and the Homeric Hymns...
The Iliad is the oldest piece of Western Literature...
I've never read them, but I know a lot about him and know that he is HUGELY influential in both literature and culture...
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
btw he was the first person i started a writeup for... lol
indecision sucks...
indecision sucks...
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Nice work Larry. I can tell you for a fact you are going to get great value out of this pick from judging perspective.Fennis, your Rebel is on the way...
Fennis
Footballguy
f5 f5 f5 f5
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
I mentioned that I felt there was a strong number one in the Rebel category, and I’m happy to be able to make the pick. This is nice bookend with my previous pick, since Constantine helped build the foundation that the Holy Roman Empire was founded on and my current pick shook that foundation to the core. In the process, he didn’t just break up the church but completely altered the order of power in Europe and the relationship between church and state. This began a process that eventually led to the liberalization of thought and governance.
Martin Luther – Rebel
Martin Luther (10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546) was a German monk,[1] theologian, university professor, priest, father of Protestantism,[2][3][4][5] and church reformer whose ideas started the Protestant Reformation and changed the course of Western civilization.[6]
Luther taught that salvation is a free gift of God and received only through true faith in Jesus as redeemer from sin. His theology challenged the authority of the papacy by adducing the Bible as the only infallible source of Christian doctrine[7] and countering "sacerdotalism" in the doctrine that all baptized Christians are a universal priesthood.[8]
Luther's refusal to retract his writings in confrontation with the Holy Roman Emperor **** at the Diet of Worms in 1521 resulted in his excommunication by Pope **** and declaration as an outlaw. His translation of the Bible into the language of the people made the Scriptures more accessible, causing a tremendous impact on the church and on German culture. It fostered the development of a standard version of the German language, added several principles to the art of translation,[9] and influenced the translation of the King James Bible.[10] His hymns inspired the development of congregational singing within Christianity.[11] His marriage to Katharina von Bora set a model for the practice of clerical marriage within Protestantism.[12] Historical debate has concentrated on Luther's writings about the Jews. His anti-Jewish statements were revived and used in propaganda by the Nazis during 1933–45.[13]
Luther Bible
Luther translated the Bible from Greek into German to make it more accessible to ordinary people, a task he began alone in 1521 during his stay in the Wartburg castle. He was not the first translator of it into German, but he was by far the greatest, according to Philip Shaff, who writes that, had Luther done nothing but this, he would remain one of the "greatest benefactors of the German-speaking race."[68]
His translation of The New Testament was published in September 1522 and, in collaboration with Johannes Bugenhagen, Justus Jonas, Caspar Creuziger, Philipp Melanchthon, Matthäus Aurogallus, and George Rörer, the Old and New Testaments together in 1534. He worked on refining the translation for the rest of his life.
The Luther Bible contributed to the emergence of the modern German language and is regarded as a landmark in German literature. The 1534 edition was influential on William Tyndale's translation,[69] a precursor of the King James Bible.[70]
There are blemishes here, as mentioned in the passages above Luther’s writing took a disturbing anti-Semitic turn later in life. Here is more discussion on that:
At the heart of the debate about Luther's influence is whether it is anachronistic to view his work as a precursor of the racial antisemitism of the National Socialists. Some scholars see Luther's influence as limited, and the Nazis' use of his work as opportunistic. Martin Brecht argues that there is a world of difference between Luther's belief in salvation, which depended on a faith in Jesus as the messiah — a belief Luther criticized the Jews for rejecting — and the Nazis' ideology of racial antisemitism.[98] Johannes Wallmann argues that Luther's writings against the Jews were largely ignored in the 18th and 19th centuries, and that there is no continuity between Luther's thought and Nazi ideology.[99] Uwe Siemon-Netto agrees, arguing that it was because the Nazis were already anti-Semites that they revived Luther's work.[100][101] Hans J. Hillerbrand agrees that to focus on Luther is to adopt an essentially ahistorical perspective of Nazi antisemitism that ignores other contributory factors in German history. [102] Similarly, Roland Bainton, noted church historian and Luther biographer, wrote "One could wish that Luther had died before ever this tract was written. His position was entirely religious and in no respect racial."[103][104] Other scholars argue that, even if his views were merely anti-Judaic, their violence lent a new element to the standard Christian suspicion of Judaism. Ronald Berger writes that Luther is credited with "Germanizing the Christian critique of Judaism and establishing anti-Semitism as a key element of German culture and national identity."[105] Paul Rose argues that he caused a "hysterical and demonizing mentality" about Jews to enter German thought and discourse, a mentality that might otherwise have been absent.[106]
Martin Luther – Rebel
Martin Luther (10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546) was a German monk,[1] theologian, university professor, priest, father of Protestantism,[2][3][4][5] and church reformer whose ideas started the Protestant Reformation and changed the course of Western civilization.[6]
Luther taught that salvation is a free gift of God and received only through true faith in Jesus as redeemer from sin. His theology challenged the authority of the papacy by adducing the Bible as the only infallible source of Christian doctrine[7] and countering "sacerdotalism" in the doctrine that all baptized Christians are a universal priesthood.[8]
Luther's refusal to retract his writings in confrontation with the Holy Roman Emperor **** at the Diet of Worms in 1521 resulted in his excommunication by Pope **** and declaration as an outlaw. His translation of the Bible into the language of the people made the Scriptures more accessible, causing a tremendous impact on the church and on German culture. It fostered the development of a standard version of the German language, added several principles to the art of translation,[9] and influenced the translation of the King James Bible.[10] His hymns inspired the development of congregational singing within Christianity.[11] His marriage to Katharina von Bora set a model for the practice of clerical marriage within Protestantism.[12] Historical debate has concentrated on Luther's writings about the Jews. His anti-Jewish statements were revived and used in propaganda by the Nazis during 1933–45.[13]
Luther Bible
Luther translated the Bible from Greek into German to make it more accessible to ordinary people, a task he began alone in 1521 during his stay in the Wartburg castle. He was not the first translator of it into German, but he was by far the greatest, according to Philip Shaff, who writes that, had Luther done nothing but this, he would remain one of the "greatest benefactors of the German-speaking race."[68]
His translation of The New Testament was published in September 1522 and, in collaboration with Johannes Bugenhagen, Justus Jonas, Caspar Creuziger, Philipp Melanchthon, Matthäus Aurogallus, and George Rörer, the Old and New Testaments together in 1534. He worked on refining the translation for the rest of his life.
The Luther Bible contributed to the emergence of the modern German language and is regarded as a landmark in German literature. The 1534 edition was influential on William Tyndale's translation,[69] a precursor of the King James Bible.[70]
There are blemishes here, as mentioned in the passages above Luther’s writing took a disturbing anti-Semitic turn later in life. Here is more discussion on that:
At the heart of the debate about Luther's influence is whether it is anachronistic to view his work as a precursor of the racial antisemitism of the National Socialists. Some scholars see Luther's influence as limited, and the Nazis' use of his work as opportunistic. Martin Brecht argues that there is a world of difference between Luther's belief in salvation, which depended on a faith in Jesus as the messiah — a belief Luther criticized the Jews for rejecting — and the Nazis' ideology of racial antisemitism.[98] Johannes Wallmann argues that Luther's writings against the Jews were largely ignored in the 18th and 19th centuries, and that there is no continuity between Luther's thought and Nazi ideology.[99] Uwe Siemon-Netto agrees, arguing that it was because the Nazis were already anti-Semites that they revived Luther's work.[100][101] Hans J. Hillerbrand agrees that to focus on Luther is to adopt an essentially ahistorical perspective of Nazi antisemitism that ignores other contributory factors in German history. [102] Similarly, Roland Bainton, noted church historian and Luther biographer, wrote "One could wish that Luther had died before ever this tract was written. His position was entirely religious and in no respect racial."[103][104] Other scholars argue that, even if his views were merely anti-Judaic, their violence lent a new element to the standard Christian suspicion of Judaism. Ronald Berger writes that Luther is credited with "Germanizing the Christian critique of Judaism and establishing anti-Semitism as a key element of German culture and national identity."[105] Paul Rose argues that he caused a "hysterical and demonizing mentality" about Jews to enter German thought and discourse, a mentality that might otherwise have been absent.[106]
Last edited by a moderator:
Thorn
Footballguy
The "it would have happened anyway" argument is so silly. How can you be so sure?
Suppose the next three or four schmoes trying to sail west die en route (perhaps because they don't appreciate the trade winds like Columbus did). Maybe as a result the conventional wisdom in Europe becomes that travelling west is a death trap.
Suppose, in that interim, that a mind like Alexander the Great or Gengis Kahn is born in the americas. Can you be so certain that things would have just turned out the same?
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Is this bedtime now?
3/21/09
4. FUBAR - Next to pick
5. Acer FC - On deck
6. Yankee23 Fan - In the hole
7. Thorn
8. DC Thunder
9. Doug B
10. Mad Sweeney
11. Big Rocks
12. higgins
3/21/09
4. FUBAR - Next to pick
5. Acer FC - On deck
6. Yankee23 Fan - In the hole
7. Thorn
8. DC Thunder
9. Doug B
10. Mad Sweeney
11. Big Rocks
12. higgins
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
almost took Luther as a rebel, but figured he'd last since Paul almost made it to the end of round 2...
Thorn
Footballguy
It was him or St. Paul for me.
Fennis
Footballguy
I am not commenting on where I think picks fall in the top 20. But Martin Luther was the very first name I thought of, and I think the most obvious rebel. Great pick for this category.His rebellion against the Catholic Church, permanently changed Christianity. The impact he made on the Church in his own lifetime was huge. Plus who doesn’t like someone nailing 95 Theses to a church door. You need a big nail!
If Martin Luther happened pre- Gutenberg we might not know of him, but thanks to Gutenberg, Martin Luther was a rebel with a way to change and impact society like few others.
Goood job Arsenal!
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Your disagreement is with Tim as he has used this argument with other people in the draft.But, as far as Columbus goes, he was not the first one to even reach The New World. He needed financial backing, which others needed as well. Human kind is to exploring as apples are to trees. It is a must and would have been found. I doubt Europe builds a space program, orbits a satellite and says, "hey, look at that big piece of land there. What is that?"
Native Americans did not have the shipping knowledge to build large ships. They did not do it nor did it appeal to them, from what I know. I highly doubt the New World would have found the Old World first.
Thorn
Footballguy
No, my disagreement is squarely with you. You claimed that someone would have eventually crossed the Atlantic, and while I don't disagree with that premise, the idea that history would have followed just the same is ridiculous.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
I just saw the Diet Mt. Dew commercial with Lincoln in it...
and...
I have to say that if that was something that actually happened, Lincoln would SO be higher on my leaders list.
"would the good people like a reply? I SAID WOULD THE GOOD PEOPLE LIKE A REPLY?!?!"
:rips shirt off and beats down everyone on the stage and then jumps on the raised platform in front of where they were and flexes"
AWESOME commercial
I laugh every time I see it...
and...
I have to say that if that was something that actually happened, Lincoln would SO be higher on my leaders list.
"would the good people like a reply? I SAID WOULD THE GOOD PEOPLE LIKE A REPLY?!?!"
:rips shirt off and beats down everyone on the stage and then jumps on the raised platform in front of where they were and flexes"
AWESOME commercial
I laugh every time I see it...
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Who said anything about the history being the same?
Last edited by a moderator:
FUBAR
Footballguy
Gigantomachia
Footballguy
Another top 5 pick for sure. Aristotle's influence was huge on early European science, thanks in large part to Aquinas, and his Ethics continues to draw supporters. In fact, most ethical positions argued for in board rooms, conferences, etc., are basically virtue ethics as argued by Aristotle over 2000 years ago; even if people think they are arguing some form of consequentialism, more than likely it is just a bad understanding of Aristotle's well thought out ethical position. As to Aristotle and Plato arguing different positions, which is what the tradition use to teach, if you read Aristotle's Metaphysics (which he did not title by the way, in fact, what we have are notes from a student or other follower) When the text was titled around 1000 CE it was said to be the text that comes after the Physics, hence, Metaphysics (or that which follows after) which today has weird spiritual overtones that did not exist for the Greeks. Moreover, Aristotle and Plato more or less say the same thing. Aristotle argues that the logos point beyond mere human discourse/rhetoric to something similar to a Form as argued by Platonism. Just to be clear. Also, many think Alexander the Great who "studied" with Aristotle more than likely was not impressed by many of Aristotle's arguments which if understood would undermine attempts to expand an Empire. But that is of course a matter of debate.
Solid pick, easily worthy of the #2 philosopher off the board. Well played.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
This is actually a great pick. Probably no works of literature have had as much influence on Western Civilization as the Illiad and the Odyssey. From the classical evaluation that every great work should start in medias res, to the idea of the quest, to the Aristotelean notion of the tragic hero, they all have their roots in those poems, which generations learned in in the gymnasium, in the academy, and in the school.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
This is who I would place as #1 in the rebel category. He laid his life on the line for what he believed (heresy could well have led to death at the stake), had no armies or navies to support him, spoke up at an intolerant time, and indirectly led to the populating of North America by Anglo Saxon Protestants. Yes, there were glimmers of discontent with Catholicism prior to Luther, but it was he who had the courage to say: "I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. Amen."
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
Just for the record, there are 2 selections so far where I have not even heard of the guy (Not going to name them to save myself embarrassment).
Maybe it’s my Aussie education kicking in, but if I haven’t heard of a guy, a lot of guys who vote in the polls may not have either.
For the record I studied as much History as was possible at High School and read a lot in my spare time
#### em, it’s all about learning anyhow.
Maybe it’s my Aussie education kicking in, but if I haven’t heard of a guy, a lot of guys who vote in the polls may not have either.
For the record I studied as much History as was possible at High School and read a lot in my spare time
#### em, it’s all about learning anyhow.
Gigantomachia
Footballguy
As Plato always liked to point out, all of Athens was raised on Homer.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I'm not embarrassed to say that I've never heard of Subutai or Giovanni da Pian del Carpine.
AcerFC
Footballguy
So you guys are saying I could have waited a bit.I'm not embarrassed to say that I've never heard of Subutai or Giovanni da Pian del Carpine.
It's tough because I have never done one of these. Oh well, I wanted him and took him. Maybe I will go more popular with my next pick.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
I think someone brought this up earlier, but Democracy isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.Right now we get a choice of who to pick, but it’s really 1 of 2 and they have policy dictated by a very small group of people. You basically get a choice, which is massively influenced by what the media presents.Mario Kart said:
A Benevolent Overlord or Dictator works well. There are many documented in history who have worked for the greater good.
Unfortunately a bad Dictator or tyrant doesn’t, but then looking at how things are run these days how different would things be? Do you really have any real say right now?
The large majority of people will accept being told what to do or how to contribute to society as long as they have a roof over their head, food in their bellies and can procreate and raise children in a safe environment.
Movers and Shakers in society are the ones that cry most about freedom, but for me Democracy has had its day. It’s time to move on and come up with something better.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Not really; he was part of the establishment, and of the Roman nobility, having served in the triumvirate that governed Rome prior to going off to Gaul. His was a power grab, as has happened throughout history.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
You could probably have waited on Subutai, because most people have not heard of him. But you will get a high grade from this judge by having taken him.So you guys are saying I could have waited a bit.I'm not embarrassed to say that I've never heard of Subutai or Giovanni da Pian del Carpine.
Aren't all rebellions essentially power grabs? You could make that argument about a lot of rebels throughout history. Julius clearly started the civil war, igniting a long tradition of such fighting within the empire. I'm not saying he's someone that most cleanly fits into the category, but he'd be one of the most high profile characters in that group.And IMHO, J. Caesar wouldn't be in my top 5 military leaders in this draft, but he's definitely one of the most important guys in world history so his drafter could be creative in slotting him.
Last edited by a moderator:
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I think this is the better way to draft in things like these. There's really no way to win or lose, even if you lose some arbitrary vote on the board. What fun is it to "win" with a "team" that doesn't interest you?So you guys are saying I could have waited a bit.I'm not embarrassed to say that I've never heard of Subutai or Giovanni da Pian del Carpine.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
It's a brave pick, as you probably could have got him rounds later. No doubt he was very important to Genghis Khans success, but it was Genghis' show.
I like the pick, but feel you could have still got him next time around.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
The Public are morons, even the FFA public.That may sound elitist, but go to any shopping mall or place where large numbers of people congregate and I'm proven right.The FFA is a lot smarter that the general public, but you only have to see some threads to realize this isn't always so.In short I'm drafting for myself, with an eye on getting the best picks at all categories.Drafting the Beatles eg isn't a public thing, I just think they are the most important Musicians/Performers ever.Technology makes this a last century only kind of thing and they're the best.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
Ozymandias
Footballguy
No, many times they are not power grabs. They are merely driven by conscience. Besides, if you want a real revolutionary in Rome, try Tiberius Gracchus.About 100 years before Caesar, he was a successful general, and he wanted land reform so that soldiers could have farms after service to the state. For this he was beaten to death in the Senate, filled with aristocrats who had large landholdings.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
IMO this is an appropriate commentary for a judge - general approval without giving too much away.Tier 2 #4 is not.MisfitBlondes said:I don't want to give too much away but Bach is definitely one of the top three composers chosen so far.
Ozymandias
- sorry to pick on you this morning, I have thoroughly enjoyed your comments on military figures and the other categories. The depth of knowledge in the FFA is astonishing, and we are lucky so many category judges are willing to take the time to share their expertise. This draft and the Greatest American Draft has a terrific group of drafters, which makes it fun from the camaraderie aspect, but it is the running commentary from the judges and general populace that have made them a true success.
That said, I think it would be better if you withheld your rankings until the end of the draft. We ran into a few issues with that during the G.A.D. It just has an adverse affect on how folks draft, and I am sure that is not one of your objectives. Again, I apologize for singling you out, as you are not the only judge or person who has been guilty of it. By all means, please continue with the general comments (less the rankings), which have been nothing short of outstanding.
As for Bach, agree with timschochet, there is an obvious trivumverate in the Composer and Philosopher categories. You can make a valid argument for any of them.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Sorry, I really was not a part of the G.A.D. so I was unaware of the problem. I will try to make my comments more general in the future.IMO this is an appropriate commentary for a judge - general approval without giving too much away.Tier 2 #4 is not.MisfitBlondes said:I don't want to give too much away but Bach is definitely one of the top three composers chosen so far.
Ozymandias
- sorry to pick on you this morning, I have thoroughly enjoyed your comments on military figures and the other categories. The depth of knowledge in the FFA is astonishing, and we are lucky so many category judges are willing to take the time to share their expertise. This draft and the Greatest American Draft has a terrific group of drafters, which makes it fun from the camaraderie aspect, but it is the running commentary from the judges and general populace that have made them a true success.
That said, I think it would be better if you withheld your rankings until the end of the draft. We ran into a few issues with that during the G.A.D. It just has an adverse affect on how folks draft, and I am sure that is not one of your objectives. Again, I apologize for singling you out, as you are not the only judge or person who has been guilty of it. By all means, please continue with the general comments (less the rankings), which have been nothing short of outstanding.
As for Bach, agree with timschochet, there is an obvious trivumverate in the Composer and Philosopher categories. You can make a valid argument for any of them.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
I like this pick, but even more so the placement of it.I had him way down the Religious (15th-20th) list.
He shoots up way higher on the Rebel list, which strangely enough I never considered.
Hugely influential and picking him high is what this draft is all about.
Good Job
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Rebel is going to be an interesting category. Just about all the top rebels can fit somewhere else in this draft, and while that sounds like common sense, what I mean is that they deserve to be tops in other categories as well.Which means, to me, Rebel basically becomes a psuedo-bad/evil wildcard slot. To be sure, there are a few people, Martin Luther for one, that are perfect fits here - but like JML said, he can go in the religion category as well.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
I knew about one of them quite well (Subutai), but the 5 names guy is new to me.Mario has his own direction and while it won't get him a prize, I'm definitely interested to see where he goes with future picks.I'm not embarrassed to say that I've never heard of Subutai or Giovanni da Pian del Carpine.
Sometimes they aren't, sometimes they are. I'm well aware of the history, but I don't think Tiberius' protests achieved the level of open rebellion (though he clearly had revolutionary goals).
flysack
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Here's the one problem with Larry Boy's pick of Johan Sebastian Bach.
You can
.(That's right beeches! #44 in VH1's 100 Greatest One-Hit Wonders and #87 in VH1's 100 Greatest Songs of the 80s)
But whatchagonnado with Bach? Huh?? Huh???
You can
.(That's right beeches! #44 in VH1's 100 Greatest One-Hit Wonders and #87 in VH1's 100 Greatest Songs of the 80s)
But whatchagonnado with Bach? Huh?? Huh???
Similar threads
