World's Greatest Draft (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Arsenal -

Based on your own criteria:

I will be assigning a grade in each of the following categories: Importance to their individual movement;

Influence on subsequent movements (or later Artists in the same); Innovation or advancement of their medium(s);Global recognition; Creation of widely recognized masterpieces (Art that the layperson would recognize, and know who did it);

Intangibles (facts or body of work that add to the overall historical influence of the Artist)

I fail to see how you can argue for a high placement for Van Gogh. He was of no importance when he was alive, and none of the other painters selected thus far had less influence after they became popular.What he has going for him: iconic work.

Arsenal doesn't get to rank Van Gogh, because that was his selection. Ranking Van Gogh is up to me.Right now, I have Van Gogh ranked in the 2nd to top tier (meaning he'll end up somewhere in the top 6 at least.) This is based on three factors:

1. His enormous reputation.

2. I like most of the stuff I see. (I know, but it's got to be SOME kind of factor.)

3. My wife, who is an art major, tells me that Van Gogh is perhaps the greatest painter ever. But she has failed to explain why.

I am no expert, I have never studied art. I am looking into this further. If you have some good reasons why Van Gogh should NOT be towards the top of the draft, let me know. One thing- although he was not well known among the public, I think he was well known by other painters.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

Now here's how I see the novelists/short story writers: GREAT Victor HugoCharles DickensLeo TolstoyGOOD Fyodor DostoyevskyEdgar Allen PoeINCREDIBLY OVERRATED James JoyceMarcel ProustNEVER READ, SO I'M UNSUREMiguel CervantesDOESN'T BELONG IN THIS CATEGORYGeoffrey ChaucerTake that, Flysack!

FWIW, flysack and I have only three of the same top five. My #6 might not even be selected in the draft. More .Tim, I'm shocked you haven't read Don Quixote. How did you miss this?

So what does it mean if you have only read one book from all of these authors combined?

 

[Orange Crush]

Copernicus is incredibly important - yet he was such a coward. He was horribly afraid to publish his thoughts because of how the church would take them.

Copernicus was no Galileo.

 

[timschochet]

Reading Van Gogh's wiki page, the other great artists of the time knew who he was and considered him a genius. Also BL's statement that his influence is insignificant is contradicted by mention of other famous artists (I can't list them here) who said they were.

 

[krista4]

Now here's how I see the novelists/short story writers: GREAT Victor HugoCharles DickensLeo TolstoyGOOD Fyodor DostoyevskyEdgar Allen PoeINCREDIBLY OVERRATED James JoyceMarcel ProustNEVER READ, SO I'M UNSUREMiguel CervantesDOESN'T BELONG IN THIS CATEGORYGeoffrey ChaucerTake that, Flysack!

FWIW, flysack and I have only three of the same top five. My #6 might not even be selected in the draft. More .Tim, I'm shocked you haven't read Don Quixote. How did you miss this?

So what does it mean if you have only read one book from all of these authors combined?

It means you've spent your time doing something else. Tim seems to have strong feelings about a lot of literature, so it's surprising that he hasn't read a novel often cited as the greatest ever written.

 

[Ozymandias]

Let's discuss painters.Claude MonetVincent Van GoghLeonardo Da VinciRembrandt van RijnSalvador DaliPablo PicassoPaul CezannePretty darn good selection, and of course, there's 13 still to be chosen, no doubt including some absolute giants. Rather than rank at this point, I have tiers in mind: the first tier would have Rembrandt and Da Vinci. Second tier, Van Gogh and Picasso, third tier, Monet and Cezanne, fourth tier, Dali. As more people get picked, they will be placed into each tier. Thoughts?

7 so far? I would put Dali in Tier 8.1. Pablo2. XXXX3. Da Vinci4. Cezanne5. Rembrandt6. XXXX7. XXXX8. Monet9. XXXX10. XXXXSomewhere - Van GoghWC - Dali (e.g., pick again)

Now here's how I see the novelists/short story writers: GREAT Victor HugoCharles DickensLeo TolstoyGOOD Fyodor DostoyevskyEdgar Allen PoeINCREDIBLY OVERRATED James JoyceMarcel ProustNEVER READ, SO I'M UNSUREMiguel CervantesDOESN'T BELONG IN THIS CATEGORYGeoffrey ChaucerTake that, Flysack!

FWIW, flysack and I have only three of the same top five. My #6 might not even be selected in the draft. More .Tim, I'm shocked you haven't read Don Quixote. How did you miss this?

So what does it mean if you have only read one book from all of these authors combined?

I would tell you that you are a Philistene, but it might get us into a religious discussion.

 

[timschochet]

I don't know why I haven't read Don Quixote. There's a ton of books I want to read that I have not read, at least 200 or so.

 

[timschochet]

Tim seems to have strong feelings about a lot of literature, so it's surprising that he hasn't read a novel often cited as the greatest ever written.

Yeah, I have strong feelings, but only about the stuff I've read. I haven't read enough literature to feel comfortable doing what you're about to do, Krista. I've read tons more popular fiction than literature I'm afraid. But it's true that of the stuff I have read, I really enjoy discussing it.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

Now here's how I see the novelists/short story writers: GREAT Victor HugoCharles DickensLeo TolstoyGOOD Fyodor DostoyevskyEdgar Allen PoeINCREDIBLY OVERRATED James JoyceMarcel ProustNEVER READ, SO I'M UNSUREMiguel CervantesDOESN'T BELONG IN THIS CATEGORYGeoffrey ChaucerTake that, Flysack!

FWIW, flysack and I have only three of the same top five. My #6 might not even be selected in the draft. More .Tim, I'm shocked you haven't read Don Quixote. How did you miss this?

So what does it mean if you have only read one book from all of these authors combined?

It means you've spent your time doing something else. Tim seems to have strong feelings about a lot of literature, so it's surprising that he hasn't read a novel often cited as the greatest ever written.

I didn't mean that you implied anything with your post. Just strange to me that the FFA is populated with a bunch of people who seem to have a lot of knowledge about a ton of different subjects. I didn't expect we had a bunch of people who not only have read so much of these works but feel knowledgable enough to rank the guys. It is a football site after all.

 

[Ozymandias]

By the way, since we're on the subject of Poe;

This gets my vote for the greatest parody in the English language.

Once upon a midnight dreary -- eerie, scary -- I was wary;

I was weary, full of sorry, thinking of my lost Lenore.

Of my cheery, eerie, faery, fiery dearie -- nothing more.

I lay napping when a rapping on the overlapping coping

woke me -- grapping, yapping, groping -- I went hopping,

leaping!, hoping that the rapping on the coping

was my little lost Lenore.

That, on opening the shutter, to admit the latter critter,

in she'd flutter from the gutter, with her bitter eyes aglitter.

So I opened wide the door -- what was there?

The dark wier and the drear moor -- or, I'm a liar!:

The dark mire, the drear moor, the mere door ...

And nothing more.

Then in stepped a stately raven, shaven like the Bard of Avon.

Yes, a shaven, rovin' raven seeking haven at my door.

And that grievin', rovin' raven had been movin' (get me, Steven?!)

For the warm and loving haven of my stove and oven door.

Oven door and ... nothing more!

Ah, distinctly I remember, every ember that December

Turned from amber to burnt umber. (I was burning limber lumber

in my chamber that December and it left an amber ember.)

With each silken sad uncertain flirtin' of a certain curtain,

That old raven, cold and callous, perched upon the bust of Pallas

just above my chamber door -- a lusty, trusty bust thrust

just above my chamber door.

Had that callous cuss shown malice, or sought solace there on Pallas?

You may tell us, Alice Wallace! Tell this soul with nightmares ridden,

Hidden in the shade and broodin', if a maiden out of Eden

Sent this sudden bird invadin' my poor chamber

(and protrudin' half an inch above my door!).

Tell this broodin' soul (he's breedin' bats by so much sodden readin'--

Readin' Snowden's "Ode to Odin"!) ...

Tell this soul with nightmares ridden if -- no kiddin'! --

on a sudden, he shall clasp a radiant maiden born in Aiden

(or in Leyden, or indeed in Baden-Baden) ...

Will he grab this buddin' maiden, gaddin' in forbidden Eden,

Whom the angels named Lenore? And that bird said, "Nevermore!"

"Prophet", cried I, "thing of evil, navel, novel, or boll weavil,

You shall travel! On the level! Scratch the gravel now, and travel --

Leave my hovel, I implore!"

And that raven, never flitting (never knitting, never tatting,

never spouting Nevermore) still is sitting (out this ballad!)

On the solid bust, and pallid -- on the vallid, pallid, bust

Above my chamber door.

And my soul is in the shadow which lies floating on the floor --

Fleeting, floating (yachting, boating) on the fluting of the matting,

Matting of my chamber door!

[And that's all there is, and nothin' more!]

 

[Big Rocks]

Copernicus is incredibly important - yet he was such a coward. He was horribly afraid to publish his thoughts because of how the church would take them. Copernicus was no Galileo.

Looking back that could be true, but you can't blame him. The church wasn't too kind with people contradicting their beliefs, as seen with Galileo getting house arrest later on and others burned at the stake for heresy.

 

[mad sweeney]

I'm sure this pick was going to be met with some skepticism, especially since I was thinking of taking himtwo rounds ago and he's still here. He's controversial in some of his areas but no one in the modern world has made a bigger impact in understanding how the mind works. Even though many of his theories have been debunked or dismissed, his methodology and extensive work on the subject of the human mind opened the door to what's inside our noodles and even more importantly, ways to possibly "fix" what's wrong up there. I also can't help but chuckle that this pick has two phallic symbols in it's number, even funnier is that he's #69 in the top 100 book Tim has mentioned.



6.11 Sigmund Freud Intellectual

Sigmund Freud (IPA: [ˈziːkmʊnt ˈfʁɔʏt]), born Sigismund Schlomo Freud (6 May 1856 – 23 September 1939), was an Austrian psychiatrist who founded the psychoanalytic school of psychology.[1] Freud is best known for his theories of the unconscious mind and the defense mechanism of repression and for creating the clinical practice of psychoanalysis for curing psychopathology through dialogue between a patient and a psychoanalyst. Freud is also renowned for his redefinition of sexual desire as the primary motivational energy of human life, as well as his therapeutic techniques, including the use of free association, his theory of transference in the therapeutic relationship, and the interpretation of dreams as sources of insight into unconscious desires. He was also an early neurological researcher into cerebral palsy. While of significant historical interest, many of Freud's ideas have fallen out of favor or have been modified by Neo-Freudians, although in the past ten years, advances in the field of neurology have shown evidence for many of his theories. Freud's methods and ideas remain important in clinical psychodynamic approaches. In academia his ideas continue to influence the humanities and some social sciences.

Freud has been influential in two related, but distinct ways. He simultaneously developed a theory of the human mind and human behavior, and a clinical technique for helping unhappy (i.e. neurotic) people. Many people claim to have been influenced by one but not the other.

Perhaps the most significant contribution Freud has made to modern thought is his conception of the unconscious. During the 19th century the dominant trend in Western thought was positivism, the claim that people could accumulate real knowledge about themselves and their world, and exercise rational control over both. Freud, however, suggested that these claims were in fact delusions; that we are not entirely aware of what we even think, and often act for reasons that have nothing to do with our conscious thoughts. The concept of the unconscious was groundbreaking in that he proposed that awareness existed in layers and there were thoughts occurring "below the surface." Dreams, called the "royal road to the unconscious" provided the best examples of our unconscious life, and in The Interpretation of Dreams Freud both developed the argument that the unconscious exists, and developed a method for gaining access to it. The Preconscious was described as a layer between conscious and unconscious thought -- that which we could access with a little effort. (The term "subconscious" while popularly used, is not actually part of psychoanalytical terminology.) Although there are still many adherants to a purely positivist and rationalist view, most people, including many who reject other elements of Freud's work, accept the claim that part of the mind is unconscious, and that people often act for reasons of which they are not conscious.

Freud was especially concerned with the dynamic relationship between these three parts of the mind. Freud argued that the dynamic is driven by innate drives. But he also argued that the dynamic changes in the context of changing social relationships. Some have criticized Freud for giving too much importance to one or the other of these factors; similarly, many of Freud's followers have focused on one or the other.

Freud believed that humans were driven by two instinctive drives, libidinal energy/eros and the death instinct/thanatos. Freud's description of Eros/Libido included all creative, life-producing instincts. The Death Instinct represented an instinctive drive to return to a state of calm, or non-existence and was based on his studies of protozoa. (See: Beyond the Pleasure Principle). Many have challenged the scientific basis for this claim.

However, David Stafford-Clark summed up the general critism of Freud as follows: "Psychoanalysis was and will always be Freud's original creation. Its discovery, exploration, investigation, and constant revision formed his life's work. It is manifest injustice, as well as wantonly insulting, to commend psychoanalysis, still less to invoke it 'without too much of Freud'."[46] It's like supporting the theory of evolution 'without too much of Darwin'. If psychoanalysis is to be treated seriously at all, one must take into account, both seriously and with equal objectivity, the original theories of Sigmund Freud.

He is seemingly one of the most studied, revered, hated, dismissed, praised, attacked, defended and mocked intellectuals generations after his death. You cannot separate him from the field of psychiatry or sexuality.

 

[krista4]

Now here's how I see the novelists/short story writers: GREAT Victor HugoCharles DickensLeo TolstoyGOOD Fyodor DostoyevskyEdgar Allen PoeINCREDIBLY OVERRATED James JoyceMarcel ProustNEVER READ, SO I'M UNSUREMiguel CervantesDOESN'T BELONG IN THIS CATEGORYGeoffrey ChaucerTake that, Flysack!

FWIW, flysack and I have only three of the same top five. My #6 might not even be selected in the draft. More .Tim, I'm shocked you haven't read Don Quixote. How did you miss this?

So what does it mean if you have only read one book from all of these authors combined?

It means you've spent your time doing something else. Tim seems to have strong feelings about a lot of literature, so it's surprising that he hasn't read a novel often cited as the greatest ever written.

I didn't mean that you implied anything with your post. Just strange to me that the FFA is populated with a bunch of people who seem to have a lot of knowledge about a ton of different subjects. I didn't expect we had a bunch of people who not only have read so much of these works but feel knowledgable enough to rank the guys. It is a football site after all.

I agree and am amazed at the breadth of knowledge of some people in these drafts. While I could get the top people in the categories, there are only a few categories into which I'd feel comfortable going very deeply. I couldn't name the 15th best leader or military person to save my life.

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm sure this pick was going to be met with some skepticism, especially since I was thinking of taking himtwo rounds ago and he's still here. He's controversial in some of his areas but no one in the modern world has made a bigger impact in understanding how the mind works. Even though many of his theories have been debunked or dismissed, his methodology and extensive work on the subject of the human mind opened the door to what's inside our noodles and even more importantly, ways to possibly "fix" what's wrong up there. I also can't help but chuckle that this pick has two phallic symbols in it's number, even funnier is that he's #69 in the top 100 book Tim has mentioned.



6.11 Sigmund Freud Intellectual

Sigmund Freud (IPA: [ˈziːkmʊnt ˈfʁɔʏt]), born Sigismund Schlomo Freud (6 May 1856 – 23 September 1939), was an Austrian psychiatrist who founded the psychoanalytic school of psychology.[1] Freud is best known for his theories of the unconscious mind and the defense mechanism of repression and for creating the clinical practice of psychoanalysis for curing psychopathology through dialogue between a patient and a psychoanalyst. Freud is also renowned for his redefinition of sexual desire as the primary motivational energy of human life, as well as his therapeutic techniques, including the use of free association, his theory of transference in the therapeutic relationship, and the interpretation of dreams as sources of insight into unconscious desires. He was also an early neurological researcher into cerebral palsy. While of significant historical interest, many of Freud's ideas have fallen out of favor or have been modified by Neo-Freudians, although in the past ten years, advances in the field of neurology have shown evidence for many of his theories. Freud's methods and ideas remain important in clinical psychodynamic approaches. In academia his ideas continue to influence the humanities and some social sciences.

Freud has been influential in two related, but distinct ways. He simultaneously developed a theory of the human mind and human behavior, and a clinical technique for helping unhappy (i.e. neurotic) people. Many people claim to have been influenced by one but not the other.

Perhaps the most significant contribution Freud has made to modern thought is his conception of the unconscious. During the 19th century the dominant trend in Western thought was positivism, the claim that people could accumulate real knowledge about themselves and their world, and exercise rational control over both. Freud, however, suggested that these claims were in fact delusions; that we are not entirely aware of what we even think, and often act for reasons that have nothing to do with our conscious thoughts. The concept of the unconscious was groundbreaking in that he proposed that awareness existed in layers and there were thoughts occurring "below the surface." Dreams, called the "royal road to the unconscious" provided the best examples of our unconscious life, and in The Interpretation of Dreams Freud both developed the argument that the unconscious exists, and developed a method for gaining access to it. The Preconscious was described as a layer between conscious and unconscious thought -- that which we could access with a little effort. (The term "subconscious" while popularly used, is not actually part of psychoanalytical terminology.) Although there are still many adherants to a purely positivist and rationalist view, most people, including many who reject other elements of Freud's work, accept the claim that part of the mind is unconscious, and that people often act for reasons of which they are not conscious.

Freud was especially concerned with the dynamic relationship between these three parts of the mind. Freud argued that the dynamic is driven by innate drives. But he also argued that the dynamic changes in the context of changing social relationships. Some have criticized Freud for giving too much importance to one or the other of these factors; similarly, many of Freud's followers have focused on one or the other.

Freud believed that humans were driven by two instinctive drives, libidinal energy/eros and the death instinct/thanatos. Freud's description of Eros/Libido included all creative, life-producing instincts. The Death Instinct represented an instinctive drive to return to a state of calm, or non-existence and was based on his studies of protozoa. (See: Beyond the Pleasure Principle). Many have challenged the scientific basis for this claim.

However, David Stafford-Clark summed up the general critism of Freud as follows: "Psychoanalysis was and will always be Freud's original creation. Its discovery, exploration, investigation, and constant revision formed his life's work. It is manifest injustice, as well as wantonly insulting, to commend psychoanalysis, still less to invoke it 'without too much of Freud'."[46] It's like supporting the theory of evolution 'without too much of Darwin'. If psychoanalysis is to be treated seriously at all, one must take into account, both seriously and with equal objectivity, the original theories of Sigmund Freud.

He is seemingly one of the most studied, revered, hated, dismissed, praised, attacked, defended and mocked intellectuals generations after his death. You cannot separate him from the field of psychiatry or sexuality.

The only reason you picked him was because of that incident with your babysitter when you were 13 months old.

 

[AcerFC]

No idea if it will get to me but I am going to bed. If it gets there I will pick when I get to work

 

[timschochet]

It's about time. Freud, along with one other guy still yet to be picked is my vote for the top intellectual.

SOD

 

[AcerFC]

Tim, Did a quick look of my team before going to sleep. I have Jordan as my athlete not Ali

Thanks

 

[flapgreen]

I've never heard of many of these people.

 

[mad sweeney]

Tim is big on accessibility, I don't know if Cervantes is someone he'd put in great. Although how he got through Fountainhead with that criteria I don't know. i've made two passionate attempts to read it and can't get past halfway. Too much "he knew that she knew that he knew that she knew that he would never tell even though telling was what she knew he wanted to do but because he knew that she knew, she knew that he knew he wouldn't say it." Blech.

My buddy that actually finished it said that the evilness of one of the characters was revealed on page 666.

Pick coming

First of all, I haven't read Cervantes, so again I can't comment. Regarding The Fountainhead I'm a little surprised; most people I know that have read it, whether or not they agreed with the philosophy, found it pretty accessible. Atlas Shrugged, OTOH, can provide a stumbling block for a lot of people. But I found both of them very accessible.

I really, really, really tried but my atention just died in the middle. I actually got further the first time.

 

[timschochet]

Tim, Did a quick look of my team before going to sleep. I have Jordan as my athlete not AliThanks

Corrected. Everyone, please look from time to time at your picks in the 2nd post. I do make mistakes (sometimes.)

 

[Mario Kart]

6.11 Sigmund Freud

Never liked him or his methods. I can see how they work and can be validated but I never fully agreed with it. There were others I had more agreement with that used less speculation.

 

[mad sweeney]

It's about time. Freud, along with one other guy still yet to be picked is my vote for the top intellectual.

SOD

The way you gush about my picks makes me wish you were judging all the categories!

 

[Mario Kart]

No idea if it will get to me but I am going to bed. If it gets there I will pick when I get to work

Looks like I will be PM'ing Tim my picks.

 

[mad sweeney]

6.11 Sigmund Freud

Never liked him or his methods. I can see how they work and can be validated but I never fully agreed with it. There were others I had more agreement with that used less speculation.

He's certainly got some black check marks against him, but he gets a lot of big gold stars too, in addition to a great number of advances made simply trying to disprove him. He's made an astounding and indelible mark on mental health.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Arsenal -

Based on your own criteria:

I will be assigning a grade in each of the following categories: Importance to their individual movement;

Influence on subsequent movements (or later Artists in the same); Innovation or advancement of their medium(s);Global recognition; Creation of widely recognized masterpieces (Art that the layperson would recognize, and know who did it);

Intangibles (facts or body of work that add to the overall historical influence of the Artist)

I fail to see how you can argue for a high placement for Van Gogh. He was of no importance when he was alive, and none of the other painters selected thus far had less influence after they became popular.What he has going for him: iconic work.

It's certainly true that he wasn't influential during his life, as his breakthrough showing was 10 years posthumous. I don't get where you think he's not influential though? In fact he had a significant influence on the Fauves movement and on various forms of expressionism right up through the abstract expressionist movement. He didn't found a movement like Picasso, and perhaps Cezanne was more directly influential on cubism and other early abstract forms but saying van Gogh had no influence is a little extreme. From the Artists I've known personally I'd say he's still highly influential. So if I were grading him on my own scale, since my vote doesn't count anyway, here's how I'd grade him:

Importance to his own movement: 10 (the peak of Post-Impressionist work, along with Cezanne)

Influence on subsequent movements : 8 (for his influence on the Fauves and later expressionists)

Innovation and advancement of medium : 9 (for his bold work with color, composition, and brushwork, all of which greatly influenced expressionism)

Global recognition: 10 (a Japanese businessman purchased a van Gogh in the 90s and reportedly was going to be cremated with it so he could preserve the beauty forever, no one knows what happened to the painting when died)

Widely recognized masterpieces: 10 (among the most recognizable and famous in the world)

Intangibles: 10 (who doesn't know his story? The modern image of the troubled and brooding artist practically comes from van Gogh directly.

 

[Mario Kart]

6.11 Sigmund Freud

Never liked him or his methods. I can see how they work and can be validated but I never fully agreed with it. There were others I had more agreement with that used less speculation.

He's certainly got some black check marks against him, but he gets a lot of big gold stars too, in addition to a great number of advances made simply trying to disprove him. He's made an astounding and indelible mark on mental health.

True, he helped grow something from the ground up. Psychology further expanded with him and after him. Some of his practices work great, Free Association for one. I don't agree with the whole Id, Ego, Superego thing but some of its descriptions work well. I liked other theorists and their determination for those. Cannot name them due to spotlighting although I doubt most get picked. I could see two others getting picked but would be surprised if more than that did.Oddly, I have begun writing a story using the Id, Ego, Superego as an umbrella to the overall theme (characters, setting and others).

 

[thatguy]

It's about time. Freud, along with one other guy still yet to be picked is my vote for the top intellectual.

SOD

Not even close.It's a good pick, but everything else you say is hyperbole.

 

[Fennis]

It's about time. Freud, along with one other guy still yet to be picked is my vote for the top intellectual.

SOD

Not even close.It's a good pick, but everything else you say is hyperbole.

In the quote, the thread, or in the FFA?

 

[Mario Kart]

Start of the day.

12. Doug B

13. DC Thunder

14. Thorn

15. Yankee23fan

16. Acer FC

17. FUBAR

18. Arsenal of Doom

19. Larry Boy 44

20. Mario Kart

PM'ing Tim with my picks. I am giving him 3 names just in case.

 

[Truman]

I dig some digging around on this because it just seems so wrong, and I think it depends on what you mean when you say a sport is popular. There may be more people playing ping pong, for instance, but I don't think that really translates into global popularity for our purposes. I actually found this article in a sports business journal speculating on whether basketball had passed soccer in global popularity:

The English Premier League (EPL) is the "embodiment of sporting globalisation," but in recent years the popularity of soccer has "plummeted, taking down with it the sport's leading brand," the EPL, in favor of basketball and the NBA, according to Julian Borger of the Manchester GUARDIAN. The "meteoric rise of basketball in China almost certainly means basketball has now surpassed [soccer] as the world's leading sport, in terms of the number of active players." The success of basketball in China represents "one of the most stunning marketing coups of our time." Fourteen NBA games are broadcast live every week on state TV and 51 regional stations in the country. In January, the NBA set up four offices in China. The contrast with the EPL's fortunes "could not be starker," as the league "does not have an office or a single representative in Beijing." But "a lot of this is not" of the EPL's making, as "some of it is due to chance." Borger: "We are now in the midst of a second round of sporting globalisation. It is a more voluntary affair, requiring willing sellers and willing buyers, so Britain's sporting exports are facing much stiffer competition." It is "not enough for today's professional clubs, leagues and associations to collect subscriptions and ticket receipts -- like any other corporation, they must grow, and that ultimately means spilling over their borders" (Manchester GUARDIAN, 12/6).

I think you'll find Basketball is rising up the charts, but to take on the amount of active particpants/viewing public it has a way to catch Football, Cricket, Hockey, Table Tennis, Tennis and even Baseball.As someone pointed out it is booming in China, which helps it's 'stats', but is that short term? Most of the other sports on the list are ingrained in the culture.

Cricket 's my favourite sport but there is no way in hell it's close to basketball in terms of popularity. It only has 9 countries who play it at the top level. Granted, it is played around the globe and those countries do have large populations/big TV audiences.Baseball isn't even as popular as rugby, I don't know why hockey's on the list (field or ice?), tennis may make a case but table tennis is only big in one continent.

 

[Doug B]

Gotta make a snap pick:

6.12 - Louis Armstrong, Musician

 

[flysack]

Now here's how I see the novelists/short story writers: GREAT Victor HugoCharles DickensLeo TolstoyGOOD Fyodor DostoyevskyEdgar Allen PoeINCREDIBLY OVERRATED James JoyceMarcel ProustNEVER READ, SO I'M UNSUREMiguel CervantesDOESN'T BELONG IN THIS CATEGORYGeoffrey ChaucerTake that, Flysack!

[snob] You like Ayn Rand. [/snob]

 

[FUBAR]

5. Andy Dufresne Spartacus I had his bio written for 5.05 before I changed to Mandela

6. thatguy Albert Schweitzer - universal ethical philosophy, anchored in a universal reality - nice idea

7. Usual21 Caravaggio - never liked Baroque, but can't argue with his influence

8. John Madden's Lunchbox Che Guevara - good rebel

9. higgins Marcus Aurelius - last of the good emperors

10. Big Rocks Nicholaus Copernicus - considered the last couple rounds

11. Mad Sweeney Sigmund Freud - probably would have been my pick this round.

I wouldn't call Freud the SOD, but he's a good pick for the category.

 

[flysack]

Two quick morning comments -

1. I'm not surprised the lit judge and I don't have the same 5. I'm willing to bet the 3 similar are Joyce and the Russians. I also bet she has Cervantes in her top 5. It's too early in the morning to argue against this. I have no clue who her other one might be. There is a Spanish writer of enormous influence who hasn't been picked yet. Not a favorite of mine, but I do like what he did with the short story.

2. Sweeney is on fire. In the sixth round he scooped up my #1 Intellectual. Again, too early to discuss this. Expect a customary flysack rant about Freud later. He is clearly the most influential intellectual in the 20th century. His work is EVERYWHERE.

 

[Ozymandias]

Two quick morning comments -1. I'm not surprised the lit judge and I don't have the same 5. I'm willing to bet the 3 similar are Joyce and the Russians. I also bet she has Cervantes in her top 5. It's too early in the morning to argue against this. I have no clue who her other one might be. There is a Spanish writer of enormous influence who hasn't been picked yet. Not a favorite of mine, but I do like what he did with the short story.2. Sweeney is on fire. In the sixth round he scooped up my #1 Intellectual. Again, too early to discuss this. Expect a customary flysack rant about Freud later. He is clearly the most influential intellectual in the 20th century. His work is EVERYWHERE.

While it is true that his work is everywhere, it appears that modern psychology has moved beyond Freud, and many of his theories have become outmoded. That doesn't detract from the enormous influence he has had, only that perhaps he didn't "discover" as many things as people thought he had.

 

[timschochet]

Good morning.

I have to leave very early this morning, in about 20 minutes from now, and I will be gone the entire day. I will try to update sometime tonight. Sorry if this causes any inconvenience.

Mario Kart sent me picks, which I asked people not to do, for this very reason. Unfortunately I will not be here when his name comes up, so he is SOL unless someone wants to take these picks from me right now?

 

[Ozymandias]

Good morning.I have to leave very early this morning, in about 20 minutes from now, and I will be gone the entire day. I will try to update sometime tonight. Sorry if this causes any inconvenience.Mario Kart sent me picks, which I asked people not to do, for this very reason. Unfortunately I will not be here when his name comes up, so he is SOL unless someone wants to take these picks from me right now?

I would do it, except I'm going golfing. And golf is the one thing that takes precedence in my life over the WGD.

 

[FUBAR]

Good morning.I have to leave very early this morning, in about 20 minutes from now, and I will be gone the entire day. I will try to update sometime tonight. Sorry if this causes any inconvenience.Mario Kart sent me picks, which I asked people not to do, for this very reason. Unfortunately I will not be here when his name comes up, so he is SOL unless someone wants to take these picks from me right now?

I may or may not be around and draft before him, but hey, I'll look at anything.

 

[DCThunder]

6.13--Cardinal Richelieu-Statesman

I don't have much time before I'm gone for the day, but I did want to get this pick in.

Richelieu was the Chief Minister to King XXXX of France and as such was one of the leading statesmen of his time. He made France into a strong centralized monarchy by restraining the power of the French Nobility. He also supported exploration and colonization by French exploreers in North America and was a patron of the arts. He was heavily involved in the political intrigues that lead to the Thirty Years War. Finally, the Court of King XXXX was the precursor to an even more elaborate court system of the next king.

If we don't have a "statesman" category, I'll reclassify him later today, but I do want this guy. Anybody who's seen movies or read novels of the period knows about Richelieu.

 

[timschochet]

OK, sending Mario picks to FUBAR. If he's not around when Mario's up, too bad. We tried.

 

[Ozymandias]

6.13--Cardinal Richelieu-Statesman

I don't have much time before I'm gone for the day, but I did want to get this pick in.

Richelieu was the Chief Minister to King XXXX of France and as such was one of the leading statesmen of his time. He made France into a strong centralized monarchy by restraining the power of the French Nobility. He also supported exploration and colonization by French exploreers in North America and was a patron of the arts. He was heavily involved in the political intrigues that lead to the Thirty Years War. Finally, the Court of King XXXX was the precursor to an even more elaborate court system of the next king.

If we don't have a "statesman" category, I'll reclassify him later today, but I do want this guy. Anybody who's seen movies or read novels of the period knows about Richelieu.

The Three Musketeers certainly did.

 

[flysack]

Quickfire Morning Thought #3 -

Loved the Marcus Aurelius pick too. Solid leader, solid philosopher, but not top 5 in either. Might make a good Wildcard.

 

[HERBERT THE HIPPO]

Good morning.I have to leave very early this morning, in about 20 minutes from now, and I will be gone the entire day. I will try to update sometime tonight. Sorry if this causes any inconvenience.Mario Kart sent me picks, which I asked people not to do, for this very reason. Unfortunately I will not be here when his name comes up, so he is SOL unless someone wants to take these picks from me right now?

I may or may not be around and draft before him, but hey, I'll look at anything.

You can send me Mario's picks, I'll be around all day and he picks before me..........

 

[BobbyLayne]

In fact he had a significant influence on the Fauves movement and on various forms of expressionism right up through the abstract expressionist movement.

OK, yes, you can give him full credit for the monumental Fauves movement. Don't forget German Expressionism.

So he's got that going form him...

 

[Yankee23Fan]

6.13--Cardinal Richelieu-Statesman

I don't have much time before I'm gone for the day, but I did want to get this pick in.

Richelieu was the Chief Minister to King XXXX of France and as such was one of the leading statesmen of his time. He made France into a strong centralized monarchy by restraining the power of the French Nobility. He also supported exploration and colonization by French exploreers in North America and was a patron of the arts. He was heavily involved in the political intrigues that lead to the Thirty Years War. Finally, the Court of King XXXX was the precursor to an even more elaborate court system of the next king.

If we don't have a "statesman" category, I'll reclassify him later today, but I do want this guy. Anybody who's seen movies or read novels of the period knows about Richelieu.

He could go in Leader, Religious or Villain. Your write-up doesn't do this guy justice. The western concept of a nation state was basically his in as much as how he recreated the French monarchy and its place in Europe. For much of his time in that office he ran France as a power higher than the king. When dignitaries of other countries called on France a visit to him was considered just as important, sometimes moreso, then a visit with the king. And his rule over the commoners wasn't pretty, in fact most of the time it was quite brutal. What hollywood has done to him as a character is comical compared to who he really was.

 

[higgins]

Quickfire Morning Thought #3 -Loved the Marcus Aurelius pick too. Solid leader, solid philosopher, but not top 5 in either. Might make a good Wildcard.

I realize all of the above, I just can't predict the direction this draft (and thus my team) will take.

 

[Ozymandias]

In fact he had a significant influence on the Fauves movement and on various forms of expressionism right up through the abstract expressionist movement.

:( OK, yes, you can give him full credit for the monumental Fauves movement. Don't forget German Expressionism.

So he's got that going form him...

You may laugh, but we have a little shrine with a candle, at home to the Fauves movement. Although I didn't particularly like their flirtation with pointillism.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

13. DC Thunder - Cardinal Richilieu

14. Thorn

15. Yankee23fan

16. Acer FC

17. FUBAR

18. Arsenal of Doom

19. Larry Boy 44

20. Mario Kart

 

[BobbyLayne]

Reading Van Gogh's wiki page, the other great artists of the time knew who he was and considered him a genius. Also BL's statement that his influence is insignificant is contradicted by mention of other famous artists (I can't list them here) who said they were.

True, they knew who he was, they all bought their art supplies from the same store. No joke - and that info is also found on his Wiki page.Do you ever get facts correct?? That comment was from a newspaper art critic, not a peer.

My PM box is open. I'd love to hear about any movements he influenced, or even any significant artists who were influenced or inspired by him.

You can put him #1, I don't care - the guy is the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the art world.

He's popular - hooray.

 

[Ozymandias]

Reading Van Gogh's wiki page, the other great artists of the time knew who he was and considered him a genius. Also BL's statement that his influence is insignificant is contradicted by mention of other famous artists (I can't list them here) who said they were.

True, they knew who he was, they all bought their art supplies from the same store. No joke - and that info is also found on his Wiki page.Do you ever get facts correct?? That comment was from a newspaper art critic, not a peer.

My PM box is open. I'd love to hear about any movements he influenced, or even any significant artists who were influenced or inspired by him.

You can put him #1, I don't care - the guy is the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the art world.

He's popular - hooray.

Hey, no less an artist than the creator of the Origami Boulder said we shouldn't ask van Gogh how much he pay for paint.

http://www.origamiboulder.com/