Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I was thinking about taking him. He's had a tremendous affect on our country for the last century - and it's happening even as we speak. Much to our detriment, I might add.
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World's Greatest Draft (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
FUBAR
Footballguy
Fennis
Footballguy
I think MK was having a very good draft. I know the Sun Tzu was controversial, but I liked it as a first rounder. All in all, a very solid draft. Until now. Sorry MK, this one is a stinker.J. R. R. Tolkien = Author - might be a little early but I have to follow Yankee's advice after losing Joan of Arc.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I feel dirty for posting itI think MK was having a very good draft. I know the Sun Tzu was controversial, but I liked it as a first rounder. All in all, a very solid draft. Until now. Sorry MK, this one is a stinker.J. R. R. Tolkien = Author - might be a little early but I have to follow Yankee's advice after losing Joan of Arc.
Honestly, I like Tolkien, but to call him one of the top 20 novelists is a stretch. Who's next, another english author with a similar name? "Who-Must-Not-Be-Named"
thatguy
Footballguy
Agreed. Tolkien really doesn't belong in this draft, IMO.I think MK was having a very good draft. I know the Sun Tzu was controversial, but I liked it as a first rounder. All in all, a very solid draft. Until now. Sorry MK, this one is a stinker.
thatguy
Footballguy
AoD is up. Fubar is on deck.Larry owes 2.
Thorn
Footballguy
I think this is where we're at - does it look right?
Round Six
14. Thorn - Alexander Graham Bell
15. Yankee23fan - Edmund Burke
16. Acer FC - Thomas Jefferson (11:03 am)
17. FUBAR - Atilla the Hun (posted late)
18. Arsenal of Doom - Alhazen
19. Larry Boy 44 - timed out
20. Mario Kart - JRR Tolkien (posted by FUBAR)
Round Seven
1. Mario Kart - John Maynard Keyes (posted by FUBAR at 1:34 pm)
2. Larry Boy 44 - still timed out
3. Arsenal of Doom - is up
4. FUBAR - is on deck
5. Acer FC - is in the hole
6. Yankee23 Fan
7. Thorn
Round Six
14. Thorn - Alexander Graham Bell
15. Yankee23fan - Edmund Burke
16. Acer FC - Thomas Jefferson (11:03 am)
17. FUBAR - Atilla the Hun (posted late)
18. Arsenal of Doom - Alhazen
19. Larry Boy 44 - timed out
20. Mario Kart - JRR Tolkien (posted by FUBAR)
Round Seven
1. Mario Kart - John Maynard Keyes (posted by FUBAR at 1:34 pm)
2. Larry Boy 44 - still timed out
3. Arsenal of Doom - is up
4. FUBAR - is on deck
5. Acer FC - is in the hole
6. Yankee23 Fan
7. Thorn
thatguy
Footballguy
So I guess now AoD's clock runs until 2:34 ET.
Thorn
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
So 4 picks to go and I have like 15 people to chose from. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
rick6668
Footballguy
I'm usually checking this thread until 5pm EST, so if anyone wants to PM a pick, that would be fine. (I am not in this draft)
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'm fighting the urge to debate who I think will drop to my next pick. Oh, and fix your sig:
thatguy
Footballguy
I can take a PM. I'll be checking pretty much all day.
dparker713
Footballguy
He was who I was referring to earlier in the thread when I said I didnt have either Einstein or Newton at the top spot. SOD imo.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Yeah, I dont know if I'd have him #1, but there is a strong argument for him.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'm flipping the coin now.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Good point.I'm fighting the urge to debate who I think will drop to my next pick. Oh, and fix your sig:
thatguy
Footballguy
thatguy's team through 6 rounds:
Leader - Ashoka The Great "The Emperor of All Ages"
Inventor - Johannes Gutenberg Inventor of the printing press, "The most important invention of the second millennium"
Novelist - Leo Tolstoy Author of War and Peace and Anna Karenina, two of the greatest novels ever written; His ideas on non-violent resistance had profound effect on Gandhi
Philosopher - Rene Descartes "Father of Modern Philosophy"
Intellectual - Niccolò Machiavelli "Father of Modern Political Science"
Humanitarian - Albert Schweitzer The embodiment of Humanitarianism
Leader - Ashoka The Great "The Emperor of All Ages"
Inventor - Johannes Gutenberg Inventor of the printing press, "The most important invention of the second millennium"
Novelist - Leo Tolstoy Author of War and Peace and Anna Karenina, two of the greatest novels ever written; His ideas on non-violent resistance had profound effect on Gandhi
Philosopher - Rene Descartes "Father of Modern Philosophy"
Intellectual - Niccolò Machiavelli "Father of Modern Political Science"
Humanitarian - Albert Schweitzer The embodiment of Humanitarianism
Last edited by a moderator:
The Real Hipster Doofus
Footballguy
There sure are a lot of fathers in this draft
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Several sons of #####es, too.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Charles “The Hammer” Martel – Military
This will be my favorite pick in this draft, even if he ended up being rated last in his category. Charles Martel, or The Hammer as he would later become known for the way he mercilessly hammered his opponents, is one of my favorite historical characters. I had him behind only Genghis Khan and Alexander on the military list, ahead of other more well know generals and leaders, for reasons I’ll try to outline.
There are few reasons why I rate him so highly. First and foremost was his victory at the Battle of Tours and subsequent defeat of the Muslim incursions into Europe between 732-737, which effectively decided that Europe would remain a Christian continent. There has been some disagreement in the 20th century over how effectively the Umayyad dynasty could have maintained their foothold into Gaul, but most historians still regard this as a macrohistorical event that ensure Europe would remain a Christian continent. No one argues that there was any other power in Europe at the time that could have resisted, so the Umayyad would have had free reign to pillage the continent even if they never asserted direct control.
Regardless if full credit is given for stopping the Muslim advance, however, no one can dispute that his military accomplishments paved the way for the Carolingian empire, which has already been spotlighted by the excellent selection of Charlemagne, Charles Martel’s grandson. The Carolingian empire that Martel began spawned both the Holy Roman Empire and the French-German historical lines. All of these empires were sustained by the military and feudal traditions that are generally credited to Martel – among which are the feudal state concept itself, chivalry, the standing army, and the tradition of Knighthood associated with the European heavy cavalry.
Two other things stand out about Martel; first, he was essentially peerless as a general in his age. After establishing dominance in central Europe and routing the Muslim incursion, no one would even challenge him. His military acumen was directly responsible for the victory at Tours, where he was likely outnumbered at least 2 to 1 and facing a heavy cavalry with just heavy infantry. As was the case with all of his major engagement, he was able to dictate the field of battle, surprise the enemy with his locations, formations, and tactical maneuvers.
The last thing two points for Martel are his re-introduction of a standing army, which through his foresight directly lead to the tours victory, and the subsequent development of his own heavy cavalry. The latter feat was something that his Muslim opponents assumed it would take him a full generation to implement, but he actually accomplished in just 5 years. Anyway, enough form me, read up more on Martel and the Battle of Tours.
Charles "The Hammer" Martel (Latin: Carolus Martellus, English: Charles "the Hammer") (ca. 688[citation needed] – 22 October 741) was proclaimed Mayor of the Palace and ruled the Franks in the name of a titular King. Late in his reign he proclaimed himself Duke of the Franks (the last four years of his reign he did not even bother with the façade of a King) and by any name was de facto ruler of the Frankish Realms. In 739 he was offered an office of Roman consul by the Pope, which he rejected.[1] He expanded his rule over all three of the Frankish kingdoms: Austrasia, Neustria and Burgundy.
Martel was born in Herstal, in present-day Belgium, the illegitimate son of Pippin the Middle and his concubine Alpaida (or Chalpaida).[2] He was described by Gustave Louis Maurice Strauss in his book "Moslem and Frank; or, Charles Martel and the rescue of Europe" as a tall, powerfully built man, who was more agile than his size would lead men to believe.
He is best remembered for winning the Battle of Tours (also known as the Battle of Poitiers) in 732, which has traditionally been characterized as an event that halted the Islamic expansionism in Europe that had conquered Iberia.[3] "Charles's victory has often been regarded as decisive for world history, since it preserved western Europe from Muslim conquest and Islamization."[4]
In addition to being the leader of the army that prevailed at Tours, Charles Martel was a truly giant figure of the Middle Ages. A brilliant general, he is considered the forefather of western heavy cavalry, chivalry, founder of the Carolingian Empire, and a catalyst for the feudal system, which would see Europe through the Middle Ages. Although some recent scholars have suggested he was more of a beneficiary of the feudal system than a knowing agent for social change, others continue to see him as the primary catalyst for the feudal system.[5]
Military legacy
Heavy infantry and permanent army
Victor Davis Hanson argues that Charles Martel launched "the thousand year struggle" between European heavy infantry and Muslim cavalry.[15] Of course, Martel is also the father of heavy cavalry in Europe, as he integrated heavy armoured cavalry into his forces. This creation of a real army would continue all through his reign, and that of his son, Pepin the Short, until his Grandson, Charlemagne, would possess the world's largest and finest army since the peak of Rome.[16] Equally, the Muslims used infantry - indeed, at the Battle of Toulouse most of their forces were light infantry. It was not till Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi brought a huge force of Arab and Berber cavalry with him when he assumed the emirate of Al-Andulus that the Muslim forces became primarily cavalry.
Martel's army was known primarily for being the first standing permanent army since Rome's fall in 476,[citation needed] and for the core of tough, seasoned heavy infantry who stood so stoutly at Tours. The Frankish infantry wore as much as 70 pounds of armour, including their heavy wooden shields with an iron boss. Standing close together, and well disciplined, they were unbreakable at Tours.[17] Martel had taken the money and property he had seized from the church and paid local nobles to supply trained ready infantry year round. This was the core of veterans who served with him on a permanent basis, and as Hanson says, "provided a steady supply of dependable troops year around." This was the first permanent army since Rome. "[16] While other Germanic cultures, such as the Visigoths or Vandals, had a proud martial tradition, and the Franks themselves had an annual muster of military aged men, such tribes were only able to field armies around planting and harvest. It was Martel's creation of a system whereby he could call on troops year round that gave the Carolingians the first standing and permanent army since Rome's fall in the west.
And, first and foremost, Charles Martel will always be remembered for his victory at Tours. Creasy argues that the Martel victory "preserved the relics of ancient and the germs of modern civilizations." Gibbon called those eight days in 732, the week leading up to Tours, and the battle itself, "the events that rescued our ancestors of Britain, and our neighbors of Gaul [France], from the civil and religious yoke of the Koran." Paul Akers, in his editorial on Charles Martel, says for those who value life and freedom "you might spare a minute sometime today, and every October, to say a silent 'thank you' to a gang of half-savage Germans and especially to their leader, Charles 'The Hammer' Martel."[18]
In his vision of what would be necessary for him to withstand a larger force and superior technology (the Muslim horsemen had adopted the armour and accoutrements of heavy cavalry from the Sassanid Warrior Class, which made the first knights possible), he, daring not to send his few horsemen against the Islamic cavalry, used his army to fight in a formation used by the ancient Greeks to withstand superior numbers and weapons by discipline, courage, and a willingness to die for their cause: a phalanx. He had trained a core of his men year round, using mostly Church funds, and some had literally been with him since his earliest days after his father's death. It was this hard core of disciplined veterans that won the day for him at Tours. Hanson emphasizes that Martel's greatest accomplishment as a General may have been his ability to keep his troops under control. This absolute iron discipline saved his infantry from the fate of so many infantrymen - such as the Saxons at Hastings - who broke formation and were slaughtered piecemeal. After using this infantry force by itself at Tours, he studied the foe's forces and further adapted to them, initially using stirrups and saddles recovered from the foe's dead horses, and armour from the dead horsemen.
Development of heavy cavalry
After 732, he began the integration into his army of heavy cavalry, using the armour and accoutrements of heavy armoured horsemen, training his infantry to fight in conjunction with cavalry, a tactic which stood him in good stead during his campaigns of 736-737, especially at the Battle of Narbonne. His incorporation of heavy armoured cavalry into the western forces created the first "knights" in the west.
Brilliant generalship
Martel earned his reputation for brilliant generalship, in an age generally bereft of same, by his ability to use what he had and by integrating new ideas and technology. As a consequence, he was undefeated from 716 to his death against a wide range of opponents, including the Muslim cavalry (at that time, the world's best) and the fierce barbarian Saxons on his own borders -- and all this in spite of virtually always being outnumbered. He was the only general in the Middle Ages in Europe to use the eastern battle technique of feigned retreat. His ability to attack where he was least expected and when he was least expected was legendary. The process of the development of the famous chivalry of France continued in the Edict of Pistres of his great-great-grandson and namesake Charles the Bald.
The defeats Martel inflicted on the Muslims were vital in that the split in the Islamic world left the Caliphate unable to mount an all out attack on Europe via its Iberian stronghold after 750. His ability to meet this challenge, until the Muslims self-destructed, is considered by most historians to be of macrohistorical importance, and is why Dante writes of him in Heaven as one of the "Defenders of the Faith." After 750, the door to western Europe, the Iberian emirate, was in the hands of the Umayyads, while most of the remainder of the Muslim world came under the control of the Abbasids, making an invasion of Europe a logistical impossibility while the two Muslim empires battled. This put off Islamic invasion of Europe until the Turkish conquest of the Balkans half a millennium later.
H. G. Wells says of Charles Martel's decisive defeat of the Muslims in his "Short History of the World:
"The Moslim when they crossed the Pyrenees in 720 found this Frankish kingdom under the practical rule of Charles Martel, the Mayor of the Palace of a degenerate descendant of Clovis, and experienced the decisive defeat of Poitiers (732) at his hands. This Charles Martel was practically overlord of Europe north of the Alps from the Pyrenees to Hungary."[19]
John H. Haaren says in “Famous Men of the Middle Ages”
”The battle of Tours, or Poitiers, as it should be called, is regarded as one of the decisive battles of the world. It decided that Christians, and not Moslems, should be the ruling power in Europe. Charles Martel is especially celebrated as the hero of this battle.”
Just as his grandson, Charlemagne, would become famous for his swift and unexpected movements in his campaigns, Charles was legendary for never doing what his enemies forecast he would do. It was this ability to do the unforeseen, and move far faster than his opponents believed he could, that characterized the military career of Charles Martel.
It is notable that the Northmen did not begin their European raids until after the death of Martel's grandson, Charlemagne. They had the naval capacity to begin those raids at least three generations earlier, but chose not to challenge Martel, his son Pippin, or his grandson, Charlemagne. This was probably fortunate for Martel, who despite his enormous gifts, would probably not have been able to repel the Vikings in addition to the Muslims, Saxons, and everyone else he defeated. However, it is notable that again, despite the ability to do so, (the Danes had constructed defenses to defend from counterattacks by land, and had the ability to launch their wholesale sea raids as early as Martel's reign), they chose not to challenge Charles Martel.
This will be my favorite pick in this draft, even if he ended up being rated last in his category. Charles Martel, or The Hammer as he would later become known for the way he mercilessly hammered his opponents, is one of my favorite historical characters. I had him behind only Genghis Khan and Alexander on the military list, ahead of other more well know generals and leaders, for reasons I’ll try to outline.
There are few reasons why I rate him so highly. First and foremost was his victory at the Battle of Tours and subsequent defeat of the Muslim incursions into Europe between 732-737, which effectively decided that Europe would remain a Christian continent. There has been some disagreement in the 20th century over how effectively the Umayyad dynasty could have maintained their foothold into Gaul, but most historians still regard this as a macrohistorical event that ensure Europe would remain a Christian continent. No one argues that there was any other power in Europe at the time that could have resisted, so the Umayyad would have had free reign to pillage the continent even if they never asserted direct control.
Regardless if full credit is given for stopping the Muslim advance, however, no one can dispute that his military accomplishments paved the way for the Carolingian empire, which has already been spotlighted by the excellent selection of Charlemagne, Charles Martel’s grandson. The Carolingian empire that Martel began spawned both the Holy Roman Empire and the French-German historical lines. All of these empires were sustained by the military and feudal traditions that are generally credited to Martel – among which are the feudal state concept itself, chivalry, the standing army, and the tradition of Knighthood associated with the European heavy cavalry.
Two other things stand out about Martel; first, he was essentially peerless as a general in his age. After establishing dominance in central Europe and routing the Muslim incursion, no one would even challenge him. His military acumen was directly responsible for the victory at Tours, where he was likely outnumbered at least 2 to 1 and facing a heavy cavalry with just heavy infantry. As was the case with all of his major engagement, he was able to dictate the field of battle, surprise the enemy with his locations, formations, and tactical maneuvers.
The last thing two points for Martel are his re-introduction of a standing army, which through his foresight directly lead to the tours victory, and the subsequent development of his own heavy cavalry. The latter feat was something that his Muslim opponents assumed it would take him a full generation to implement, but he actually accomplished in just 5 years. Anyway, enough form me, read up more on Martel and the Battle of Tours.
Charles "The Hammer" Martel (Latin: Carolus Martellus, English: Charles "the Hammer") (ca. 688[citation needed] – 22 October 741) was proclaimed Mayor of the Palace and ruled the Franks in the name of a titular King. Late in his reign he proclaimed himself Duke of the Franks (the last four years of his reign he did not even bother with the façade of a King) and by any name was de facto ruler of the Frankish Realms. In 739 he was offered an office of Roman consul by the Pope, which he rejected.[1] He expanded his rule over all three of the Frankish kingdoms: Austrasia, Neustria and Burgundy.
Martel was born in Herstal, in present-day Belgium, the illegitimate son of Pippin the Middle and his concubine Alpaida (or Chalpaida).[2] He was described by Gustave Louis Maurice Strauss in his book "Moslem and Frank; or, Charles Martel and the rescue of Europe" as a tall, powerfully built man, who was more agile than his size would lead men to believe.
He is best remembered for winning the Battle of Tours (also known as the Battle of Poitiers) in 732, which has traditionally been characterized as an event that halted the Islamic expansionism in Europe that had conquered Iberia.[3] "Charles's victory has often been regarded as decisive for world history, since it preserved western Europe from Muslim conquest and Islamization."[4]
In addition to being the leader of the army that prevailed at Tours, Charles Martel was a truly giant figure of the Middle Ages. A brilliant general, he is considered the forefather of western heavy cavalry, chivalry, founder of the Carolingian Empire, and a catalyst for the feudal system, which would see Europe through the Middle Ages. Although some recent scholars have suggested he was more of a beneficiary of the feudal system than a knowing agent for social change, others continue to see him as the primary catalyst for the feudal system.[5]
Military legacy
Heavy infantry and permanent army
Victor Davis Hanson argues that Charles Martel launched "the thousand year struggle" between European heavy infantry and Muslim cavalry.[15] Of course, Martel is also the father of heavy cavalry in Europe, as he integrated heavy armoured cavalry into his forces. This creation of a real army would continue all through his reign, and that of his son, Pepin the Short, until his Grandson, Charlemagne, would possess the world's largest and finest army since the peak of Rome.[16] Equally, the Muslims used infantry - indeed, at the Battle of Toulouse most of their forces were light infantry. It was not till Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi brought a huge force of Arab and Berber cavalry with him when he assumed the emirate of Al-Andulus that the Muslim forces became primarily cavalry.
Martel's army was known primarily for being the first standing permanent army since Rome's fall in 476,[citation needed] and for the core of tough, seasoned heavy infantry who stood so stoutly at Tours. The Frankish infantry wore as much as 70 pounds of armour, including their heavy wooden shields with an iron boss. Standing close together, and well disciplined, they were unbreakable at Tours.[17] Martel had taken the money and property he had seized from the church and paid local nobles to supply trained ready infantry year round. This was the core of veterans who served with him on a permanent basis, and as Hanson says, "provided a steady supply of dependable troops year around." This was the first permanent army since Rome. "[16] While other Germanic cultures, such as the Visigoths or Vandals, had a proud martial tradition, and the Franks themselves had an annual muster of military aged men, such tribes were only able to field armies around planting and harvest. It was Martel's creation of a system whereby he could call on troops year round that gave the Carolingians the first standing and permanent army since Rome's fall in the west.
And, first and foremost, Charles Martel will always be remembered for his victory at Tours. Creasy argues that the Martel victory "preserved the relics of ancient and the germs of modern civilizations." Gibbon called those eight days in 732, the week leading up to Tours, and the battle itself, "the events that rescued our ancestors of Britain, and our neighbors of Gaul [France], from the civil and religious yoke of the Koran." Paul Akers, in his editorial on Charles Martel, says for those who value life and freedom "you might spare a minute sometime today, and every October, to say a silent 'thank you' to a gang of half-savage Germans and especially to their leader, Charles 'The Hammer' Martel."[18]
In his vision of what would be necessary for him to withstand a larger force and superior technology (the Muslim horsemen had adopted the armour and accoutrements of heavy cavalry from the Sassanid Warrior Class, which made the first knights possible), he, daring not to send his few horsemen against the Islamic cavalry, used his army to fight in a formation used by the ancient Greeks to withstand superior numbers and weapons by discipline, courage, and a willingness to die for their cause: a phalanx. He had trained a core of his men year round, using mostly Church funds, and some had literally been with him since his earliest days after his father's death. It was this hard core of disciplined veterans that won the day for him at Tours. Hanson emphasizes that Martel's greatest accomplishment as a General may have been his ability to keep his troops under control. This absolute iron discipline saved his infantry from the fate of so many infantrymen - such as the Saxons at Hastings - who broke formation and were slaughtered piecemeal. After using this infantry force by itself at Tours, he studied the foe's forces and further adapted to them, initially using stirrups and saddles recovered from the foe's dead horses, and armour from the dead horsemen.
Development of heavy cavalry
After 732, he began the integration into his army of heavy cavalry, using the armour and accoutrements of heavy armoured horsemen, training his infantry to fight in conjunction with cavalry, a tactic which stood him in good stead during his campaigns of 736-737, especially at the Battle of Narbonne. His incorporation of heavy armoured cavalry into the western forces created the first "knights" in the west.
Brilliant generalship
Martel earned his reputation for brilliant generalship, in an age generally bereft of same, by his ability to use what he had and by integrating new ideas and technology. As a consequence, he was undefeated from 716 to his death against a wide range of opponents, including the Muslim cavalry (at that time, the world's best) and the fierce barbarian Saxons on his own borders -- and all this in spite of virtually always being outnumbered. He was the only general in the Middle Ages in Europe to use the eastern battle technique of feigned retreat. His ability to attack where he was least expected and when he was least expected was legendary. The process of the development of the famous chivalry of France continued in the Edict of Pistres of his great-great-grandson and namesake Charles the Bald.
The defeats Martel inflicted on the Muslims were vital in that the split in the Islamic world left the Caliphate unable to mount an all out attack on Europe via its Iberian stronghold after 750. His ability to meet this challenge, until the Muslims self-destructed, is considered by most historians to be of macrohistorical importance, and is why Dante writes of him in Heaven as one of the "Defenders of the Faith." After 750, the door to western Europe, the Iberian emirate, was in the hands of the Umayyads, while most of the remainder of the Muslim world came under the control of the Abbasids, making an invasion of Europe a logistical impossibility while the two Muslim empires battled. This put off Islamic invasion of Europe until the Turkish conquest of the Balkans half a millennium later.
H. G. Wells says of Charles Martel's decisive defeat of the Muslims in his "Short History of the World:
"The Moslim when they crossed the Pyrenees in 720 found this Frankish kingdom under the practical rule of Charles Martel, the Mayor of the Palace of a degenerate descendant of Clovis, and experienced the decisive defeat of Poitiers (732) at his hands. This Charles Martel was practically overlord of Europe north of the Alps from the Pyrenees to Hungary."[19]
John H. Haaren says in “Famous Men of the Middle Ages”
”The battle of Tours, or Poitiers, as it should be called, is regarded as one of the decisive battles of the world. It decided that Christians, and not Moslems, should be the ruling power in Europe. Charles Martel is especially celebrated as the hero of this battle.”
Just as his grandson, Charlemagne, would become famous for his swift and unexpected movements in his campaigns, Charles was legendary for never doing what his enemies forecast he would do. It was this ability to do the unforeseen, and move far faster than his opponents believed he could, that characterized the military career of Charles Martel.
It is notable that the Northmen did not begin their European raids until after the death of Martel's grandson, Charlemagne. They had the naval capacity to begin those raids at least three generations earlier, but chose not to challenge Martel, his son Pippin, or his grandson, Charlemagne. This was probably fortunate for Martel, who despite his enormous gifts, would probably not have been able to repel the Vikings in addition to the Muslims, Saxons, and everyone else he defeated. However, it is notable that again, despite the ability to do so, (the Danes had constructed defenses to defend from counterattacks by land, and had the ability to launch their wholesale sea raids as early as Martel's reign), they chose not to challenge Charles Martel.
Last edited by a moderator:
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Arsenal's got some big guns.
thatguy
Footballguy
Nice pick, FUBAR.
For AcerFC:
7.5 Martin Luther King Jr not sure where I want to slot him yet
From wiki
Martin Luther King, Jr. (January 15, 1929 – April 4, 1968) was an American clergyman, activist and prominent leader in the African-American civil rights movement. His main legacy was to secure progress on civil rights in the United States and he is frequently referenced as a human rights icon today.
A Baptist minister,[1] King became a civil rights activist early in his career. He led the 1955 Montgomery Bus Boycott and helped found the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in 1957, serving as its first president.
King's efforts led to the 1963 March on Washington, where King delivered his “I Have a Dream” speech. There, he raised public consciousness of the civil rights movement and established himself as one of the greatest orators in U.S. history.
In 1964, King became the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize for his work to end racial segregation and racial discrimination through civil disobedience and other non-violent means. By the time of his death in 1968, he had refocused his efforts on ending poverty and opposing the Vietnam War, both from a religious perspective.
King was assassinated on April 4, 1968, in Memphis, Tennessee. He was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1977 and Congressional Gold Medal in 2004; Martin Luther King, Jr. Day was established as a U.S. national holiday in 1986.
QUOTE
I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.
Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.
But one hundred years later, the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languished in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.
In a sense we've come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds."
But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. And so, we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice.
We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of God's children.
It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. And those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.
But there is something that I must say to my people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.
The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.
We cannot walk alone.
And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.
We cannot turn back.
There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their self-hood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating: "For Whites Only." We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until "justice rolls down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream."¹
I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. And some of you have come from areas where your quest -- quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed.
Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.
And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."2
This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.
With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.
And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning:
My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,
From every mountainside, let freedom ring!
And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true.
And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.
Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.
Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania.
Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.
Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.
But not only that:
Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.
Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.
Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.
From every mountainside, let freedom ring.
And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
Free at last! Free at last!
Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!3
QUOTE
For AcerFC:
7.5 Martin Luther King Jr not sure where I want to slot him yet
From wiki
Martin Luther King, Jr. (January 15, 1929 – April 4, 1968) was an American clergyman, activist and prominent leader in the African-American civil rights movement. His main legacy was to secure progress on civil rights in the United States and he is frequently referenced as a human rights icon today.
A Baptist minister,[1] King became a civil rights activist early in his career. He led the 1955 Montgomery Bus Boycott and helped found the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in 1957, serving as its first president.
King's efforts led to the 1963 March on Washington, where King delivered his “I Have a Dream” speech. There, he raised public consciousness of the civil rights movement and established himself as one of the greatest orators in U.S. history.
In 1964, King became the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize for his work to end racial segregation and racial discrimination through civil disobedience and other non-violent means. By the time of his death in 1968, he had refocused his efforts on ending poverty and opposing the Vietnam War, both from a religious perspective.
King was assassinated on April 4, 1968, in Memphis, Tennessee. He was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1977 and Congressional Gold Medal in 2004; Martin Luther King, Jr. Day was established as a U.S. national holiday in 1986.
QUOTE
I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.
Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.
But one hundred years later, the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languished in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.
In a sense we've come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds."
But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. And so, we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice.
We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of God's children.
It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. And those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.
But there is something that I must say to my people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.
The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.
We cannot walk alone.
And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.
We cannot turn back.
There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their self-hood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating: "For Whites Only." We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until "justice rolls down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream."¹
I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. And some of you have come from areas where your quest -- quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed.
Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.
And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."2
This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.
With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.
And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning:
My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride,
From every mountainside, let freedom ring!
And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true.
And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.
Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.
Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania.
Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.
Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.
But not only that:
Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.
Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.
Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.
From every mountainside, let freedom ring.
And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
Free at last! Free at last!
Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!3
QUOTE
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I can honestly say that none of those guys were on my list here, so my group hasn't shrunk at all and my pick is still hard to make.......
thatguy
Footballguy
Same here. I really thought that after my last pick my short list would be quickly depleted. I haven't had to cross many names off so far. Although I am still sad that I didn't think of Alhazen, or whatever his name is.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
AW COME ON!!!J. R. R. Tolkien = Author - might be a little early but I have to follow Yankee's advice after losing Joan of Arc.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Nice pick. Mjolnirs learning stuff in here.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
6.19 Raphael, Painter
I don't think he was picked yet...
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Ok..... I've been tossing this name around for about 2 rounds..... going Saint/Martyr here......
Fennis
Footballguy
so far so good.
HERBERT THE HIPPO
REAL Ultimate Power
I thought you drafted Dante......
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Larry finally lands his Turtle!
Thorn
Footballguy
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
actually...it was more like "last painter on list available" since Picasso, Rembrandt, Van Gogh, Monet, & Dali were all gone...perfect VBD strategy, last TMNT available, pull trigger!!
krista4
Footballguy
So...that's an interesting pick.
Abrantes
Footballguy
So...that's an interesting pick.J. R. R. Tolkien = Author - might be a little early but I have to follow Yankee's advice after losing Joan of Arc.
flysack
Footballguy
This is both the best person I learned about and my vote for biggest steal of the draft. Unreal. Is he #1 Scientist? I don't know. Top 3? Definitely To nab a top 3 guy in the 7th round, after so many scientists had already been taken, is a total steal.
Well done, AOD.
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
For my next pick, I have to look at the catholic church. For this man was a bishop, theologian and critical philosopher. He is a saint and pre-eminent Doctor of the Church, a leader of his own order and considered the theological father (watch out for the theme) of the Reformation. And in many circles he is simply known as, The Blessed.
He introduced the theory of three different types of students, and instructed teachers to adapt their teaching styles to each student's individual learning style. The three different kinds of students are: the student who has been well-educated by knowledgeable teachers; the student who has had no education; and the student who has had a poor education, but believes himself to be well-educated. If a student has been well educated in a wide variety of subjects, the teacher must be careful not to repeat what they have already learned, but to challenge the student with material which they do not yet know thoroughly. With the student who has had no education, the teacher must be patient, willing to repeat things until the student understands, and sympathetic.
Perhaps the most difficult student, however, is the one with an inferior education who believes he understands something when he does not. Augustine stressed the importance of showing this type of student the difference between "having words and having understanding," and of helping the student to remain humble with his acquisition of knowledge. Another radical idea he introduced is the idea of teachers responding positively to the questions they may receive from their students, no matter if the student interrupted his teacher. He also founded the restrained style of teaching. This teaching style ensures the students' full understanding of a concept because the teacher does not bombard the student with too much material; focuses on one topic at a time; helps them discover what they don't understand, rather than moving on too quickly; anticipates questions; and helps them learn to solve difficulties and find solutions to problems. So, unlike that hack Socretes, his idea of education is actual education and not making the professor look good.
Sorry, law school flashback there.
His work and legacy in theology became the central tenants of men who have been drafted already, and who have yet to be drafted. His legacy is enormous, and is simply too much to paste, yet chances are you have been effected by it in some respects since it has reached almost 2000 years into our time. And for celebrity sake, he is the Patron Saint of brewers, printers, theologians, sore eyes, and a number of cities and dioceses. He was enthusiastically made a saint by the church and he continues to be, The Blessed.
I select Saint Augustine a.k.a. Augustine of Hippo, one of the most important men in the spread of Western Christianity.
He introduced the theory of three different types of students, and instructed teachers to adapt their teaching styles to each student's individual learning style. The three different kinds of students are: the student who has been well-educated by knowledgeable teachers; the student who has had no education; and the student who has had a poor education, but believes himself to be well-educated. If a student has been well educated in a wide variety of subjects, the teacher must be careful not to repeat what they have already learned, but to challenge the student with material which they do not yet know thoroughly. With the student who has had no education, the teacher must be patient, willing to repeat things until the student understands, and sympathetic.
Perhaps the most difficult student, however, is the one with an inferior education who believes he understands something when he does not. Augustine stressed the importance of showing this type of student the difference between "having words and having understanding," and of helping the student to remain humble with his acquisition of knowledge. Another radical idea he introduced is the idea of teachers responding positively to the questions they may receive from their students, no matter if the student interrupted his teacher. He also founded the restrained style of teaching. This teaching style ensures the students' full understanding of a concept because the teacher does not bombard the student with too much material; focuses on one topic at a time; helps them discover what they don't understand, rather than moving on too quickly; anticipates questions; and helps them learn to solve difficulties and find solutions to problems. So, unlike that hack Socretes, his idea of education is actual education and not making the professor look good.
Sorry, law school flashback there.
His work and legacy in theology became the central tenants of men who have been drafted already, and who have yet to be drafted. His legacy is enormous, and is simply too much to paste, yet chances are you have been effected by it in some respects since it has reached almost 2000 years into our time. And for celebrity sake, he is the Patron Saint of brewers, printers, theologians, sore eyes, and a number of cities and dioceses. He was enthusiastically made a saint by the church and he continues to be, The Blessed.
I select Saint Augustine a.k.a. Augustine of Hippo, one of the most important men in the spread of Western Christianity.
flysack
Footballguy
Again, I find this highly misleading. If you can cite something that connects Gandhi to Tolstoy, fine. Until then, I'll stick with the commonly held perception (claimed by Gandhi himself) that his ideas of passive resistance came from Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, i.e. Indian culture.
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thatguy
Footballguy
thatguy
Footballguy
III. Mohandas Gandhi (1869-1948)When Gandhi was studying law in London 1894, he wrote a "Guide to London," which mentioned of Tolstoy that "few men have been more given to wine and cigarettes... a man stupefies himself with these stimulants..."14 This, Gandhi's first reference to Tolstoy, suggests that his knowledge came through vegetarian and health literature. Gandhi was not deeply moved until the publication of The Kingdom of God is Within You, a book which, he wrote, "overwhelmed me."15
The circumstances of this event are interesting. Gandhi was 24, living alone in Pretoria, South Africa. He compared Tolstoy's teaching to that of the fundamentalists who had been pressing him to accept Christ. "Before the independent thinking, profound morality, and the truthfulness of this book, all the books given me ... paled into insignificance," he wrote.16 This suggests that he did not find these qualities in his missionary friends. It also suggests that this was what he was searching for.
Gandhi later wrote of Tolstoy's book, "Its reading cured me of my skepticism and made me a firm believer in ahimsa [nonviolence]."17 It also helped him resolve the question of religious identity, for Tolstoy's Christianity was not based on special revelation, but was simply one instance of a universal law. The law of love was the mark of true religion in every tradition. Gandhi thereafter understood Christianity in Tolstoy's way. It liberated him from orthodoxy, as it had liberated Tolstoy, and provided a foundation for his identification with Hinduism.
Ten years pass before we find another reference to Tolstoy in Gandhi's writings, though he had read many of Tolstoy's pamphlets and books, and kept a picture of Tolstoy in his law office.
When Gandhi was in London in 1909, he sent a letter to Tolstoy about the condition British Indians in South Africa. Tolstoy responded, "I have just received your most interesting letter which has give me great pleasure. God helps our dear brothers and co-workers in the Transvaal. That same struggle of the tender against the harsh, of meekness and love against pride and violence, is every year making itself more and more felt here among us also, especially in one of the very sharpest of the conflicts of the religious law with the worldly laws - in refusals of military service. Such refusals are becoming ever more and more frequent... I greet you fraternally, and am glad to have intercourse with you."18
Gandhi continued the correspondence. Gandhi wrote 5 times to Tolstoy, and Tolstoy wrote 3 times to Gandhi. Tolstoy's last letter to Gandhi stated, "Your activity is the most essential work, the most important of all the work now being done in the world."19 Tolstoy died on November 7, 1910.
Despite Gandhi's admiration for Tolstoy, and his consistent citation of Tolstoy as the greatest proponent of nonviolence, there were significant differences between them. "Gandhi differed from Tolstoy both in his much more positive attitude toward the state and the nation, and in his belief in the need for active resistance to evil."20
Tolstoy taught absolute non-resistance. He believed that all coercive action was forbidden by Jesus, and this included almost all actions of government, not only war. He believed that as religion was based on the Law of Love, and the state was based on violence, they were incompatible. He also believed that the power which would undermine the state and permit a return to true religion was consistent individual refusal to cooperate. Such individual action could also lead to the formation of small voluntary communities of non-resistants living the new life and spreading the doctrine.
Gandhi taught nonviolent resistance. While asserting, with Tolstoy, the ethical primacy of nonviolence, he believed in taking purposive action to remove evils and to establish a better society. Unlike Tolstoy, Gandhi did not see nonviolent action as simply the refusal to participate in state violence, but as a means of inducing the state to change its policies. He took a more political route, seeking not to supplant the state with a perfectionist society, but to transform it by the efficacy of nonviolent means of social reform. Thus Gandhian nonviolence is not non-resistance, it is nonviolent resistance or nonviolent transformation.
Thorn
Footballguy
Going to go ahead and pull the trigger on my painter now, as my list is dwindling. What I know about art could fill a thimble, but as I see it we are nearing the end of really well known painters, and of the few I have left, I'm going to take the one I personally like. Hopefully, this name will carry some weight with the FFA, if not the judges.
7.07 Pierre-Auguste Renoir, Painter
3
7.07 Pierre-Auguste Renoir, Painter
12
3
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