World's Greatest Draft (2 Viewers)

[timschochet]

The more I consider Bohr, the more I'm convinced that he should probably be #3 behind only Newton and Einstein (and it's possible #4 has not been taken.) It's a little too difficult for me to understand, but this guy essentially revealed the nature of the Universe. The "Mind of God", indeed; in any real sense of the word, he discovered it.

 

[mad sweeney]

Dostoevsky belongs in the first tier.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Question - has Larry used up his 3 response limit in the current discussion? I wanted to bump my edited Niels Bohr writeup; would hate to see it get buried again like my humanitarian pick was in the avalanche of redundancy.

I tried to throw out tremendous praise for your Bohr pick already; several other people agreed, but it was in the middle of the whole religious thing. Did you see my post on the Einstein-Bohr debate?

I did indeed, thank you. His mentor was a giant, and there are several significant scientists from prewar era, but it became clear after some research who was the one elevated the most by his peers.I looked at the Wiki entry on Einstein-Bohr, and that is discussed in the book I parsed my writeup from, and I came to the conclusion that I. AM. NOT. VERY. SMART. The only thing I know is at the end of all those exercises over the years, it was known as Bohr's triumph. Not only do I not understand why Bohr was right, I don't even know what the frackin' issue was. I know that the second revolution of quantum physics was purely mathematical, and the theories put forth - wave mechanics and matrix mechanics - led to the next step, Bohr's concept of complementarity. Now I don't understand that part at all, but essentially - if I am at least getting the summary correct - Bohr is saying in the late 1920s, this is it, quantum theory explains all of nature, and there is nothing beyond quantum measurements. Goes back to what he said:

It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to find out how nature is", according to Bohr. "Physics concerns what we can say about nature."

That's where Einstein challenged him. He won't accept that, it runs counter to his own method of thought experiments. He comes up with these complex, convuluted situations and says "OK, my friend...if quantum physics is the ultimate reality, explain this..."BTW, they were indeed warm friends. There was no genuine rivalry or petty jealousy; but they were not afraid to engage or push one another's theories - it was all done in a search for truth as they understood it.

 

[mad sweeney]

I'll be at work all day tomorrow so a PM from anyone when it's my turn will help save an hour, I can tell you whether to skip me or not. Thanks

 

[Big Rocks]

In the scientist category, there are still several left that deserve serious consideration. But besides that, the category has been picked over with the vast majority of the heavyweights gone. It's going to be a ##### ranking them and several people are going to be disappointed with the ranking of their person. Seriously, several of the picks could rank anywhere from 5 to 20. But since I can't use tiers I have to objectively ranking all their accomplishments, ideas, and advancements, and someone will unfortunately end up in the 20th spot.

 

[flysack]

From Flysack (I ran into the "you've posted too many...") Gestapo.

"I'm sure you know this Ozy, but I doubt everyone does:

FACT: The entire publishing industry is supported by cookbooks. They make roughly 90% of the profits that keep publishing houses in the green.

I'm dead serious. We used to joke about this all the time in grad school."

Well Madonna has sold a lot of CD's. so it should count for something.

I know you're joking around, but liked the Madonna pick a lot. There's a lot more to Madonna than most people credit. She is something of a feminist figure in pop culture. While the uncritical eye thoughtlessly labels her early 90s Erotica phase as her "slutty" period, I think this is a natural progression of her choice to call herself "Madonna." This same impulse inspired her to use sex as a selling point (an old Rock N Roll gambit), to doing videos about unmarried pregnancy "Poppa Don't Preach," to a clear attempt to liberate female sexuality from Catholic-inspired oppression, otherwise referred to as the "Madonna-Whore Complex," or in the common parlance, "dudes are studs if they shag lots of girls, but girls are either virgins, slightly damaged, or outright sluts." Madonna challenged this double standard on a world stage.

She's been something of a flake at times (especially post-motherhood when she became a yoga freak), but she's also very very smart. She managed herself for years - quite successfullly. There's a lot more to her than the dimwit trainwrecks she inspired (like Brittany Spears).

 

[flysack]

So what exactly don't you like about Borges, Tim? I really can't quite grasp where you're coming from at all.

I have nothing against him. I've never read him. But Flysack compared him to Joyce, so...

 

[Orange Crush]

11.07 Frank Sinatra, Musician/Performer/The Man

2) Technical mastery of one's instrument.Loses some marks here.

Some of you might argue that I'm nuts, but I'm keeping this in the context of true masters of their instruments.

Technically, Frank was not an elite singer. He's in the converation if just discussing popular music, but we're not doing that.

As someone who has been singing in choirs his entire life, has taken lessons, and thus knows at least something on the subject ... I strenuously object.Frank's technical mastery over his voice is astounding. I know it's difficult to listen to, say, an opera singer, and then compare them to a crooner like Sinatra because it's easy to think the opera singer is using better technique. It's actually very different technique. That should not in any way lessen opinions on Sinatra's abilities. Every time I listen to Sinatra I'm agog. That's especially true whenever I see videotape of him singing because he makes it look so effortless, when it isn't. He's truly a unique talent.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

NCCommish is the religious figures judge and he does not believe in divinity. I wouldn't have minded a religious person doing this judging, however, so long as he/she at least tried to be impartial. That's all we can ask.

Your statement of who can or cannot be drafted is as follows:

16. Religious figures Separate from philosophy, though there may be some overlap here. These are people throughout the centuries who helped shape the faith of mankind. For the purposes of this category, all Biblical characters are to be treated as real people. I don't want to get into any debates as to whether Jesus or Moses actually lived. We'll assume they did in this draft.

If the judge for this category does not take this into account then it’s a farce. Fair enough he may not believe in divinity or whether Moses or Abraham existed, but as clearly stated in your guide they did and he HAS to evaluate them as such. The whole religious debate in this thread is seriously pissing me off, both sides. Nobody can let an argument go and it’s dragging the thread down.

The terms of who can or cannot be picked is clear, if characters from the bible are put in other categories then that’s absurd.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

I'll pick as soon as Usual21 makes his or times out

 

[Orange Crush]

2) Technical mastery of one's instrument.

On par with the classical elite. A true virtuoso. The accolades from piers are unmatched.

Don't want to spotlight, so will wait until draft is over to post more quotes.

Are these compliments coming from the sea lions at the San Fran wharf?

 

[Doug B]

Now there are several masters here, but for me, the ones in italics stand out. At the present time, these are my top 5, and I rank them like this:

1. Rembrandt

2. Picasso

3. Da Vinci

4. Van Gogh

5. Monet

It's the toothpaste that puts him over the top, isn't it

 

[mad sweeney]

NCCommish is the religious figures judge and he does not believe in divinity. I wouldn't have minded a religious person doing this judging, however, so long as he/she at least tried to be impartial. That's all we can ask.

Your statement of who can or cannot be drafted is as follows:

16. Religious figures Separate from philosophy, though there may be some overlap here. These are people throughout the centuries who helped shape the faith of mankind. For the purposes of this category, all Biblical characters are to be treated as real people. I don't want to get into any debates as to whether Jesus or Moses actually lived. We'll assume they did in this draft.

If the judge for this category does not take this into account then it’s a farce. Fair enough he may not believe in divinity or whether Moses or Abraham existed, but as clearly stated in your guide they did and he HAS to evaluate them as such. The whole religious debate in this thread is seriously pissing me off, both sides. Nobody can let an argument go and it’s dragging the thread down.

The terms of who can or cannot be picked is clear, if characters from the bible are put in other categories then that’s absurd.

Well, since you brought it up...Neither Andy nor I were arguing that they can't be drafted, for the purposes of the draft we both were pretty clear that we were fine with the choices.

I'm not sure if you're saying the judge can or should take into account divine aspects, but assuming they exist is a far cry from attributing divine acts to them. They can be evaluated as the inspiration for such stories and for the regard they are held in without the benefit of their magic powers.

 

[Trey]

Yes I know, here comes the guy with the One Ring as his avatar but...

What J.R.R. Tolkien did is completely unrivaled in my opinion. He did not just write novels. He created an entire world, complete with intricate characters, distinct locations, and even languages!

He wrote a trilogy which is one of the most popular set of novels that the world will ever see. I would say they were unrivaled in terms of overall popularity until JK Rowling came along nearly 50 years later.

His books laid the groundwork for a $3 Billion movie franchise which will most likely reach $5 Billion by the time 2012 rolls around.

And just because his books are not on "classic" lists shouldn't take anything away from him. These lists shy away from the fantasy genre normally. But try and convince me that the Bronte sisters are somehow more worthy of the greatest labels and I'll laugh in your face.

I guess it comes down to what this draft is all about. It is a matter of preference of whether or not you think Tolkien is one of the BEST writers of all time. His legacy and impact is not disputable however. Tolkien is EASILY Top 20 most influential writers.

FYI, he also was a great literary critic if you would like to look up some of his commentary on his fellow writers' work.

 

[Doug B]

NCCommish is the religious figures judge and he does not believe in divinity. I wouldn't have minded a religious person doing this judging, however, so long as he/she at least tried to be impartial. That's all we can ask.

Your statement of who can or cannot be drafted is as follows:

16. Religious figures Separate from philosophy, though there may be some overlap here. These are people throughout the centuries who helped shape the faith of mankind. For the purposes of this category, all Biblical characters are to be treated as real people.I don't want to get into any debates as to whether Jesus or Moses actually lived. We'll assume they did in this draft.

If the judge for this category does not take this into account then it’s a farce. Fair enough he may not believe in divinity or whether Moses or Abraham existed, but as clearly stated in your guide they did and he HAS to evaluate them as such. The whole religious debate in this thread is seriously pissing me off, both sides. Nobody can let an argument go and it’s dragging the thread down.

The terms of who can or cannot be picked is clear, if characters from the bible are put in other categories then that’s absurd.

JML, you've pointed out something I missed before -- that the Biblical-figure "exemption" applies only to the Religious Figure category.I very much agree with your point -- NCCommish is not free to downgrade a Biblical figure because there may not be extra-Biblical evidence that said figure existed.

 

[Thorn]

11.07 Frank Sinatra, Musician/Performer/The Man

"It's Frank's world, we just live in it."

Very pleased to get one of my personal idols. May move him to celebrity later depending on how things go; I think he would be a monster there, too. This guy had great friends, dressed well, dated bombshells, was never afraid to express emotion, won an Oscar, had a period of being thought of as washed up which he came back from, and happened to be one hell of a singer. Women wanted him, men wanted to be him.

Frank quotes:

(a toast) "Here's to absentee friends - #### em!"

"Don't drink water. It rusts you out."

"I'm for anything that gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers, or a bottle of Jack Daniels."

"I'm not one of those complicated, mixed up cats. I'm not looking for the secret to life or the answer to life. I just go on from day to day, taking what comes."

"A friend is never an imposition."

"For me, a tuxedo is a way of life."

A Frank story, told by (redacted):

"(A famous broad) was in trouble at the end of her life. And at that time, I was about to open at the Waldorf-Astoria Empire Room. It was my first night and everything. Then, as I was about to go on, I got this frantic call from (the famous broad) at the St. Regis Hotel. She was hysterical - 'XXXX, I'm being beaten up in my hotel room. If you don't believe me, here's my son Joey.' he was really upset and said, 'It's true, my mom's being beaten up.' I didn't know what to do. I was about to walk on stage and I was trapped.

"My ex-wife said to call Frank, who was in Florida. I managed to get him on the line and told him, 'XXX's being beaten up at the St. Regis Hotel.' He said, 'I'll call you back in fifteen minutes. So I hung up. Twelve minutes later, she called me again and said 'I ask for help and now I have five Jewish lawyers in my room and four hundred police out on the street! What's going on?' Then Sinatra called me back two minutes after taht and said, 'Is that all right, kid?'"

Same deal here.Hate having to judge Frank on my own self-inflicted criteria.

But where does he stand in the list of all-time great musicians/perfomers?

1) Artistic expertice - the ability to emote with an instrument.

Truly exceptional here. Amazing phrasing, feeling and incredibile ability to sense what to do when.

2) Technical mastery of one's instrument.

Loses some marks here.

Some of you might argue that I'm nuts, but I'm keeping this in the context of true masters of their instruments.

Technically, Frank was not an elite singer. He's in the converation if just discussing popular music, but we're not doing that.

3) Innovativeness/importance in musical history

May not have invented any new genres, but took popular music to new heights

and blazed the trail for all pop singers that followed.

4) Popularity.

Gotta be near the top of this criteria.

As with many of the popular choices, #2 will be a set-back.

Even though Frank is a legend and one of my favorites, he's not near the top of greatest musicians the world has known.

I can live with this I still may move him to celebrity though.

 

[flysack]

He wrote a trilogy which is one of the most popular set of novels that the world will ever see. I would say they were unrivaled in terms of overall popularity until JK Rowling came along nearly 50 years later.

I love far-fetched fanboy bombast like this. Come on, dude. Um, there was this guy, wrote a series of novels set in a world accessible by a wardrobe. Was a contemporary, Oxford colleague, and friend of Tolkien's. Wrote his books around the same time. They were even more popular (mostly because kids liked them).

 

[BobbyLayne]

Your statement of who can or cannot be drafted is as follows:

16. Religious figures Separate from philosophy, though there may be some overlap here. These are people throughout the centuries who helped shape the faith of mankind. For the purposes of this category, all Biblical characters are to be treated as real people.I don't want to get into any debates as to whether Jesus or Moses actually lived. We'll assume they did in this draft.

JML, you've pointed out something I missed before -- that the Biblical-figure "exemption" applies only to the Religious Figure category.I very much agree with your point -- NCCommish is not free to downgrade a Biblical figure because there may not be extra-Biblical evidence that said figure existed.

Hate to throw another log on the fire as this really got the treatment yesterday...By extension, then, Biblical figures outside of the Religious Figure category are fair game, e.g., the Judges will have discretion to downgrade them due to lack of extra-Biblical existence. Not that they are required to, but they will have that option.

Getting off the whole Bible-figure theme for a moment, and looking at characters from antiquity in general...

I think the general rule (or the consensus I perceive) is if you take someone whom we have sketchy or incomplete information, you're taking your chances, and living with the results. In some categories the founders and pioneers are still the giants. Philosophy, obviously, stands out - the Greek triumvirate has always been held in high esteem in Western philosophy from their own lifetime to the present day. Thus it makes sense they should receive a very high ranking.

On the other hand - using another Greco-Roman example from antiquity - we've had two (at least) ancient playwrights. Although acknowledged, they have not received the same veneration in that category as the Greek philosophers. Others have advanced the art form far beyond the original concpetion; it would be an unreasonable expectation for someone to say "so-and-so was the founder of this, so they have to be a top 5".

Same thing, IMO, for say Scientist; Newton is one thing, he laid down priniciples that others have stood upon for half a millenium. But a person of antiquity who today is acknowledged but in no way, shape or form followed because of mankinds advancements cannot expect to be judged in the same 'Newtonian' manner simply because of parentage (e.g., the father of argument).

World's Greatest should be about actual achievement. Pioneers have their place in history, but the judges will have the very difficult task of discerning how important those foundations may or may not be.

 

[Usual21]

I'm here. Will pick in a few.

 

[flysack]

.

 

[Usual21]

12.07 - Jimi Hendrix - Musician/Performer

James Marshall Hendrix (born Johnny Allen Hendrix; November 27, 1942 – September 18, 1970) was an American guitarist, singer and songwriter. After initial success in Europe, he achieved fame in the United States following his 1967 performance at the Monterey Pop Festival. Later, Hendrix headlined the iconic 1969 Woodstock Festival and the 1970 Isle of Wight Festival.

Hendrix often favored raw overdriven amplifiers with high gain and treble and helped develop the previously undesirable technique of guitar feedback. Hendrix, along with bands such as Cream was one of the musicians who popularized the wah-wah pedal in mainstream rock which he often used to deliver an exaggerated pitch in his solos, particularly with high bends and use of legato based around the pentatonic scale. He was influenced by blues artists such as B. B. King, Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Albert King, and Elmore James, rhythm and blues and soul guitarists Curtis Mayfield, Steve Cropper, as well as by some modern jazz. In 1966, Hendrix, who played and recorded with Little Richard's band from 1964 to 1965, was quoted as saying, "I want to do with my guitar what Little Richard does with his voice."

Carlos Santana has suggested that Hendrix' music may have been influenced by his Native American heritage. As a record producer, Hendrix also broke new ground in using the recording studio as an extension of his musical ideas. He was one of the first to experiment with stereophonic and phasing effects for rock recording.

Hendrix won many of the most prestigious rock music awards in his lifetime, and has been posthumously awarded many more, including being inducted into the US Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1992 and the UK Music Hall of Fame in 2005. An English Heritage "Blue plaque" was erected in his name on his former residence at Brook Street, London, in September 1997. A star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame (at 6627 Hollywood Blvd.) was dedicated in 1994. In 2006, his debut US album, Are You Experienced, was inducted into the United States National Recording Registry, and Rolling Stone named Hendrix the top guitarist on its list of the 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time in 2003.

 

[Trey]

He wrote a trilogy which is one of the most popular set of novels that the world will ever see. I would say they were unrivaled in terms of overall popularity until JK Rowling came along nearly 50 years later.

I love far-fetched fanboy bombast like this. Come on, dude. Um, there was this guy, wrote a series of novels set in a world accessible by a wardrobe. Was a contemporary, Oxford colleague, and friend of Tolkien's. Wrote his books around the same time. They were even more popular (mostly because kids liked them).

I'm assuming you have not read the LOTR trilogy and the Narnia chronicles then? MAYBE you could compare The Hobbit and Narnia but even that would be an insult. Tolkien dismissed his friend Lewis' Narnia books for a reason.They are very light, very incomplete. They are fun reads but it ends there. Children's books and nothing more.And to compare Narnia to Lord of the Rings in terms of popularity would be foolish.Hobbit + Lord of the Rings = Around 250 million copies sold.Narnia = 120 million copies sold.Let's not even touch the popular culture impact.I stand by the claim that LOTR was the golden standard until HP came along.Edit to add: I think Lewis' other works are much better than his Narnia. "A Grief Observed" and "The Great Divorce" bring up fascinating discussion.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

From the Category blurb

14. Artist/Non painter Could be a sculptor, archictect, even a movie director.

I don’t know Sculptors taken outside the ones already taken & I wouldn’t know a good architect if they bit me in the asth.Sure there are internet lists that could help, but fuggit. I’m going with something I know about, movie directors.

[timschochet]He’s not as classy or as old as the sculptors. He therefore must rank 20th[/timschochet]

12:08 – Alfred Hitchcock – Artist/Non-Painter

25 Most Influential Directors of All-Time (ranked) - MovieMaker Magazine

1. Alfred Hitchcock

Total Film.

The top ten greatest directors ever are:

1. Alfred Hitchcock

Entertainment Weekly's 50 Greatest Directors

1. Alfred Hitchcock

The American Cinema

Rank Director

1 Alfred Hitchcock

The Greatest Directors of the 20th Century

Reel.com

1) Alfred Hitchcock

Alfred Hitchcock has been the most well-known director to the general public since the 1940s -- and he remains so in the 21st century, more than 25 years after his death. His name evokes instant expectations on the part of audiences around the world: of a memorable night of movie-watching highlighted by at least two or three great chills (and a few more good ones), some striking black comedy, and an eccentric characterization or two in virtually every one of the director's movies across a half-century -- and usually laced with a comical cameo appearance by the director himself.

Alfred Joseph Hitchcock was born into a devoutly Catholic family in London, and his religious upbringing -- with its attendant issues of guilt -- would have a powerful influence on the psychological underpinnings of his later work. He was trained at a technical school, and initially gravitated to movies through art courses and advertising. He studied the work of other filmmakers, most notably the German expressionists, especially XXX. On visiting Germany's UFA studios in the early '20s, Hitchcock was reportedly overwhelmed by the sheer size and scope of the sets used by XXX for his 1924 Siegfried. Following two films on which he served as screenwriter, Hitchcock made his directorial debut with The Pleasure Garden in 1925. Hitchcock had his first major success the following year with The Lodger, a thriller loosely based on the real-life story of Jack the Ripper, adapted from a novel authored by XXX. While he worked in a multitude of genres over the next six years (including one musical, Waltzes From Vienna, which he regarded as the nadir of his career), he found his greatest acceptance with his thrillers, which included Blackmail (1929) -- the first talking picture made in England -- and Murder (1930). These seem primitive by modern standards, but have many of the essential elements of Hitchcock's subsequent successes, even if they are presented in technically rudimentary terms. Additionally, in their own time they were considered quite innovative, especially Blackmail, which exists in two different versions, sound and silent. Each has its own virtues, but the talkie version makes use of sound in a uniquely suspenseful and sophisticated fashion for its time; the movie also introduced one of Hitchcock's trademark attributes, a finale in a larger-than-life setting, in this case the dome over the reading room of the British Museum. That setting was the result of a suggestion from a younger colleague of Hitchcock's, future film director XXX, who offered the pursuit to the reading room dome as an alternative to a more standard chase through the streets. Hitchcock's later films would include climaxes at the Statue of Liberty (Saboteur), a murder at the United Nations, and a chase to the death on Mount Rushmore (North by Northwest).

Hitchcock first came to international attention in the mid-'30s with The Man Who Knew Too Much (1934), a thriller starring XXX as the desperate father, XXX as the kidnapped daughter, and XXX alumnus XXX -- in his first England-language movie -- as the ringleader of the assassins. The movie was notable not only for its pacing and suspense but also its violence, especially in the final section, which was inspired by an actual incident, the Sidney Street siege, in which the London police encountered heavily armed anarchists. The movie that established the director as a major force in filmmaking, however, was The 39 Steps (1935), loosely based on XXX novel of the same name. With its careful balance of suspense, humor, and romance, the movie was received better in America than any British thriller since the advent of sound, and it made a star not only of Hitchcock within the ranks of his profession, but also of its two leads, XXX and XXX. At the time of the movie's release, the usual movement of filmmakers internationally was for American directors to head to England, where they were sought-after commodities; in Hitchcock's case, the reverse was true, as he began finding himself courted by Hollywood.

It was with The Lady Vanishes (1938) that everything came together in Hitchcock's work, the suspense, the humor, the romance, and the technical side of filmmaking all combining into a near-perfect whole, with superb pacing as well. Ironically, this was also the only project he ever inherited from another director, the film having already started life as a canceled production entitled "Lost Lady," which was to have been made in 1936 by XXX from a script by XXX and XXX. It became his greatest British success, as well as being his most humorous thriller, and made film stars of XXX & XXX. Two of the supporting players, XXX & XXX, also became a regular double act in movies for years to come, and their characters, Charters and Caldicott, were later spun off into their own series by writer XXX on the PBS television series Mystery! XXX & XXX also became a major writer/director/producer duo in their own right in its wake, enjoying a quarter century of success in everything from thrillers to comedies.

Hitchcock was already being courted by American producer XXX, and The Lady Vanishes only upped the ante. He completed one last British film, Jamaica Inn, based on XXX novel of ship wreckers in 18th century England, before heading to America to join XXX organization. From the outset, the relationship between director and producer was a strained and stormy one, as Hitchcock discovered that XXX was very much a hands-on producer, exerting almost as much control on his set as Hitchcock, and that he often had his own agenda. The director had a strong enough personality to get what he wanted, but he didn't enjoy the duel for control, and he soon found an escape, but one loaded with its own problems. The multi-Oscar-winning Rebecca (1940) made a huge profit for XXX and turned Hitchcock into one of Hollywood's top "money" directors, whose name on a marquee could attract audiences. It was then that XXX began lending Hitchcock out to other producers for huge fees, many times the large salary that Hitchcock was earning; the director resented being used as a cash cow by his employer, but every time he was used on loan-out, it gave him a chance to get away from XXX and work free from his interference. Those movies became some of his best work of this period in his career: the topical anti-Nazi thrillers Foreign Correspondent (1940) and Saboteur (1942) played to the politics of the era very successfully, despite the presence of a leading man in the latter -- XXX -- whom the director didn't want (it was also during the shooting of the latter movie that Hitchcock first met actor XXX, who played the title role, who was to become an important collaborator on future projects); Lifeboat (1944), where Hitchcock faced the challenge (anticipating the thriller Phone Booth) of making a film drama on a single, confined set, the camera's movements confined to a few feet in any direction and its point-of-view limited to the confines of the boat; but the best of all of them was Shadow of a Doubt (1943), an unsettling take on homefront America in which a serial killer, played by genial leading man XXX, comes home to his small town and targets a new victim in the person of his niece (played by XXX, who was then the virtual personification of young American womanhood).

Hitchcock also occasionally ran into problems with the Motion Picture Production Code, which restricted the content of what could be shown on the screen, and forced him to compromise on the script of Suspicion (1941). But he also tried various experiments during these years, with movies such as Spellbound (which came about initially through XXXX personal fascination with Freudian analysis), in which he used surreal designs created by Salvador Dali to represent the manifestations of the unbalanced mind of the hero. Hitchcock capped his early Hollywood output with Notorious (1946), which he made for RKO (although XXX ended up owning it), which mixed suspense and romance in near-perfect proportions, and proved an excellent dramatic vehicle for XXX, XXX, and XXX. The end of Hitchcock's relationship with XXX came with the production of The Paradine Case, which ultimately existed in three different running times, no version of which was successful.

In the years immediately after, Hitchcock went through a fallow period commercially, as he ventured into independent production and new approaches to shooting. This began with Rope (1948), a bold experiment -- following on from the challenge of Lifeboat -- in doing a thriller in the form of one continuous take, with no edits, retakes of shots, or inserted shots; this was also his first film in color. There were other experiments and digressions, mostly associated with his brief postwar return to British production, including the underrated period drama Under Capricorn (1949) and Stage Fright (1950), before he once again hit his commercial stride back in Hollywood with Strangers on a Train (1951), which was remade by XXX in 1987 as Throw Mama From the Train, and Dial M for Murder (1954), which was made in 3-D and remains one of the very few fully successful 3-D movies.

Hitchcock's biggest success of this period, however, was Rear Window (1954), based on a story by XXX and starring XXX and XXX. This was Hitchcock's directorial tour de force, showing him expanding the boundaries of storytelling while still (in the manner of Lifeboat and Rope) confining himself to a single set and mostly a single point-of-view, breaking down the screen and the focus of the viewer and the film into small fragments. Even more striking was the fact that Hitchcock released Rear Window during 1954, the second year of Hollywood's switch to widescreen, anamorphic (i.e., Cinemascope) shooting -- every other director was scrambling to compose shots for an ultra-wide screen and finding ways to fill that screen, while he was busy breaking his screen into little pieces containing multiple, overlapping, and parallel story information, in picture and sound alike, and getting audiences to look and listen for every small detail. For many, the movie was his technical peak as a filmmaker -- and even here, he managed to slip in several in-jokes, including the particular makeup of the killer played by XXXX, which made him a virtual dead ringer for XXXX.

It was during the second half of the 1950s that Hitchcock's output reached its zenith, with an output of suspense films that was extraordinary in its quality, even when the material wasn't always commercially successful. Starting with Rear Window, he created a series of movies that challenged viewers, sometimes quietly and sometimes boldly, but always in unexpected ways. This all led to a new venture for the director, in the form of a weekly suspense anthology series called Alfred Hitchcock Presents -- and suddenly he wasn't just one of the top filmmakers in Hollywood, but also a media star. The series ran for eight seasons, and although he only directed a handful of the episodes -- Norman Lloyd was one of those who played a key role in the actual production of the show -- his weekly appearances as the wry-witted, dark-humored host made him a fixture in American households and the minds of millions of people. Hitchcock was so well known that he was even burlesqued on two different cartoon shows of the period -- in The Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle, the heroes' nemesis Boris Badenov at one point impersonates a well-known English film director named "Alfred Hitchhike"; and in one of the Hanna-Barbera cartoons starring the duckling Yakky Doodle, the host is a sardonic and corpulent duck, resembling Hitchcock's physique and manner, whose presence is announced with a quotation from XXX "Funeral March of a Marionette," the Alfred Hitchcock Presents theme music.

There were a few more personal indulgences for the director during this period as well, including the fact-based black-and-white drama The Wrong Man (1956) and the gentle, whimsical The Trouble With Harry (1955), but these paled next to what, at first, seemed a relatively modest black-and-white movie with which he finished out the decade: Psycho (1960). Hitchcock originally had little confidence in the movie, and at one point had even considered folding it into the television series, but then Bernard Herrmann -- who had scored all of his major films from The Trouble With Harry onward -- delivered his score, a harrowing strings-only soundtrack that chilled listeners to the bone with its fierce glissandi passages. Originally released by Paramount with a full publicity press (including the well-advertised policy that no one would be admitted to theaters after the start of the movie), it drew lines around the block, and re-defined horror for decades (as well as permanently redefining the seemingly innocent notion of taking a shower). There were still triumphs to follow for Hitchcock, including The Birds (1963), which was not only a hit in theaters but set a new ratings record for its first network showing in the mid-'60s.

Hitchcock was granted a knighthood late in life, and was planning a new movie at the time of his death in 1980. Several years after he passed away, Hitchcock's box-office appeal was once again demonstrated with the re-release of Rope, Rear Window, The Trouble With Harry, the 1956 version of The Man Who Knew Too Much, and Vertigo, all of which had been withheld from distribution for several years, in new theatrical runs that earned millions of dollars each. In the case of Vertigo, which had not been successful on its initial release in 1958, this was a particularly important reissue -- from a cult film, it went on to become one of the director's most admired and popular movies. In the decades since, Hitchcock has proved to be every bit as popular in the home-video marketplace, his movies generating tens of millions more in sales and rentals; Rear Window also became the subject of a legal action over its story copyright during the late '80s that went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. In the 21st century, there are dozens of "special edition" DVD releases devoted to Hitchcock movies from the late '20s through the 1970s, even as his movies continue to attract audiences to repertory theater screenings. ~ Bruce Eder, All Movie Guide

 

[BobbyLayne]

12.09 higgins - Next Selection, on the clock until 11:00 a.m. EST

12.10 Big Rocks - On Deck

12.11 Mad Sweeney - In The Hole

12.12 Doug B

12.13 DC Thunder

12.14 Thorn

12.15 Yankee23fan

12.16 Acer FC

12.17 FUBAR

12.18 Arsenal of Doom

12.19 Larry Boy 44

12.20 Mario Kart

 

[higgins]

All this musician talk is making me antsy...

This is most assuredly not a pick that will do well in FFA voting. And, I don't care how others rate it; but, he happens to be one of my favorites of all time, and (imho) is the greatest at his instrument of all time (in terms of mastery, composition and versatility). If you look at most of the musicians picked thus far, they're generally defined in one musical category (rock, jazz, pop, etc). This favorite of mine is not only world class in one or two genres -- he's world class in every genre he attempts (which is many), and is on the leading edge of fuzing different genres together in his own unique compositions...truly making him a world musician.

12.09 -- John McLaughlin, Musician

What follows is merely some of what I've found of his work on youtube. I've tried to minimize spotlighting, and I don't believe I'm going too far since, as I said, this will not do well in FFA voting.

Classical / Orchestral

Blues

Latin music

I'll edit this later to reflect some of the musicians he's teamed with, or whom have commented on him....but, for now, I'll simply state that after recruiting McLaughlin to be part of his band, Miles Davis named one of his own songs..."John McLaughlin."

Bonus pic

 

[Ozymandias]

It is interesting that although classical composers dominate the composers field, virtually no classical performers have surfaced. But there are some classical performers who had been incredibly talented and musical, and even some who have achieved semi rock star status.

 

[Doug B]

This is most assuredly not a pick that will do well in FFA voting ...

12.09 -- John McLaughlin, Musician

I think he may do better in the voting than you may expect. He won't knock of the Beatles in a head-to-head, no ... but McLaughlin's rep as a player is pretty lofty.

 

[BobbyLayne]

It is interesting that although classical composers dominate the composers field, virtually no classical performers have surfaced. But there are some classical performers who had been incredibly talented and musical, and even some who have achieved semi rock star status.

 

[Abrantes]

Two very interesting picks. Nice to see someone take advantage of the movie director qualifier in the non-painter category. Hitchcock is a fantastic pick, although that category will be a judging nightmare.

Simply put, McLaughlin is a badass. In terms of pure virtuoso chops, there's few guitar players in the same realm as him. His live performances with two other unpicked virtuosos, such as in the "Friday Night In San Francisco" record, are just mind-blowing. Phenomenal musician, and I'm really curious to see where he ends up in the ranking.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

9 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users)

8 Members: Uncle Humuna, John Maddens Lunchbox, Mixlflick1, higgins, the moops, BobbyLayne, Usual21, Doug B

I think you're up in the 70s draft

 

[krista4]

Two very interesting picks. Nice to see someone take advantage of the movie director qualifier in the non-painter category. Hitchcock is a fantastic pick, although that category will be a judging nightmare.Simply put, McLaughlin is a badass. In terms of pure virtuoso chops, there's few guitar players in the same realm as him. His live performances with two other unpicked virtuoso, such as in the "Friday Night In San Francisco" record, are just mind-blowing. Phenomenal musician, and I'm really curious to see where he ends up in the ranking.

Glad to see someone take a director, and Hitchcock is certainly worthy. There is one other director that I am desperately hoping will go, and a few on the "would be great to see them selected" list. I can't imagine someone judging Hitchcock vs. the sculptors, though. Makes me feel better about my task of comparing poets and playwrights.

 

[Big Rocks]

One of the most successful fighter pilots of all time and due to his success, became a hero in Germany and obsessed with others trying to shoot him down.

12.10 Manfred von Richthofen aka Red Baron, celebrity

He was a fighter pilot for Germany in World War one, where he is credited with 80 confirmed air combat victories. Due to his air prowless, he became a legend in Germany. Germany even tried to ground him, as they feared that his death would be a huge blow to the war effort. He was finally killed in 1918 while flying near the Somme River. Who fired the bullet that killed him is disputed, with several people taking credit for the kill.

After his death, his legend continued on, as seen in the numerous mentions in pop culture history.

Snoopy!

mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("

Popular fiction

* In the comic strip Peanuts, and in later television specials, one of Snoopy's fantasies portrays him as a World War I flying ace, piloting a Sopwith Camel and carrying a personal grudge against the Red Baron.

* Snoopy's fictional connection with the "Bloody Red Baron" led to a series of popular song recordings on the subject, by the group The Royal Guardsmen (see music section).

* Corto Maltese, a character by Italian cartoonist Hugo Pratt, witnesses the defeat of the Red Baron.

* The troubled main character of DC Comics's Enemy Ace comics is based in part on the Red Baron.

* Richthofen is one of the main characters in Jeffrey Shaara's book, To the Last Man.

* The second volume in Kim Newman's Anno Dracula series, The Bloody Red Baron, features a vampire Richthofen who undergoes treatment in order to transform into a large bat-like creature and dispense with the need for an aeroplane.

* The last book in the Time Machine series, World War I Flying Ace, asks the reader to find out who shot down the Red Baron and take a photograph to prove the answer.

* In the novel Burning Shore by Wilbur Smith, one of the main character, Lord Andrew Killigan, is shot down by the Red Baron's Flying Circus.

[edit] Movies

* 1927: A Richthofen-based character appears briefly in the WWI-epic Wings, directed by air combat veteran William A. Wellman.[1]

* 1930: The Red Baron was a character in the Howard Hughes film Hell's Angels.

* 1963: In the film The Great Escape, a photo of Richthofen with Anthony Fokker and two other men is on the back wall (upper left photo) in Colonel von Luger's office. [2] [3]

* 1966: The George Peppard World War I film, The Blue Max; the Red Baron is briefly shown in this film.

* 1970: In the Blake Edwards movie "Darling Lili," set in World War I and starring Julie Andrews and Rock Hudson, the Red Baron is more accurately portrayed as quieter and more reserved than portrayed in "The Blue Max" (where the Baron comes across as rather pompous) and was played by actor Ingo Mogendorf.

* 1971: The Roger Corman movie, Von Richthofen and Brown, alternatively titled The Red Baron, focused on the titular characters, and starred John Phillip Law as Richthofen. [4]

* 1991: In The Rocketeer, a veteran pilot from the war regales a young girl about the time he "was shot down by the Red Baron."

* 1994: Revenge of the Red Baron; Mickey Rooney portrays a former WW I pilot haunted by a doll version of the Red Baron that flies a toy plane. Also stars Tobey Maguire and Laraine Newman. [5]

* 2008: The Red Baron movie.

[edit] Television

* In Hogan's Heroes, a popular TV series about a German prisoner-of-war camp in WWII, the camp's commander, Colonel Klink, during WWI, while piloting a plane, panicked and crashed, causing his passenger, the "Blue Baron," to walk with a limp for the rest of his life.

* George Lucas' television series The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles featured the Baron as a character, played by Marc Warren. [6]

* In one episode of the British television show "Blackadder Goes Forth", entitled "Private Plane", the Red Baron makes an appearance when Captain Blackadder and Baldrick are shot down and captured by the Germans. Richthofen is portrayed by Adrian Edmondson as a homosexual who lacks a sense of humour but tries to make up for it, parodying traditional British views of Germans on this subject. He relishes the chance to take on his greatest adversary, but when he meets him he launches into a soliloquy and is unceremoniously shot dead by this nemesis, the much less romantically minded Lord Flashheart, who declares, "What a poof!"

* Richthofen was featured in an episode of "Fantasy Island," in which a patron of the island wished to save the Baron from his doom. (Oct. 27, 1979) [7]

* Richthofen has been featured on two different shows on the History Channel. Once for Unsolved History and recently Man, Moment, Machine.

* In an episode of The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, when Mandy was walking out to Grim's dog house, where he slept, Grim complained that he should have his own room because the Red Baron keeps shooting his dog house--a double reference to Snoopy's "dogfights" with the Red Baron atop his doghouse.

* The Red Baron appeared as a villain in the original Scooby Doo series.

* In the Wacky Races, the Red Max is a probable descendant of the Red Baron, since his car his similar to the Red Baron's plane.

* In the Spongebob Squarepants episode "Shanghaied", when on the Flying Dutchman's ship, Spongebob mistakenly states that it belongs to the Red Baron.

* In several episodes of Home Improvement, when they are doing Tool Time, there is a model of Richthofen's triplane hanging on the wall above the first aid kit.

[edit] Science fiction

* In Space: Above and Beyond, reference is made to a "Chiggy von Richthofen" and several fighter squadrons are sent to destroy him in "Operation Red Baron."

* In Fred Saberhagen's science fiction short story "Wings Out of Shadow", which is part of the Berserker series, a captured historian uses "personality modules" based on several World War I fighter aces, including Richthofen.

* Char Aznable of Mobile Suit Gundam is based partially on the Red Baron, nicknamed the Red Comet. Both are aces famous for their striking red vehicles.

* In an episode of Swat Kats called The Ghost Pilot, the Red Lynx is a clear reference to the Red Baron.

* In the Battlestar Galactica episode "Scar," there is an ace Cylon Raider who is based on the Red Baron

* In the Star Wars Expanded Universe the character Baron Soontir Fel was inspired by The Red Baron

Song references and bands

* "Snoopy Vs The Red Baron" (The Hotshots, 1973)

* "Red Baron" (Vince Guaraldi)

* "Red Baron" (Billy Cobham) (Spectrum, 1973)

* "Red Baron/Blue Max" (Iced Earth)

* "Crimson Rider" (Masterplan)

* "Not the Red Baron" (Tori Amos)

* "Red Baron" ("The Bicycling Guitarist")

* Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron (The Royal Guardsmen, 1966)

* Return of the Red Baron (The Royal Guardsmen)

* The Smallest Astronaut (The Royal Guardsmen)

* Snoopy for President (The Royal Guardsmen)

* Snoopy's Christmas (The Royal Guardsmen)

* Barón Rojo

* Barão Vermelho

* "Gold Hick" (Guided by Voices)

* The Red Baron is a Straight Edge Hardcore punk Band from Florida

* "Peanuts" (Stephen Lynch), (References the rivalry between Snoopy and the Baron)

* "The Red Baron" is an instrumental by Dunedin surf-punk band The DDTs. In this case it was named for the nickname given to the bass-player Aaron "The Baron" Allcock.

[edit] Video game references

There have also been a number of WWI flight simulators involving Manfred von Richthofen. They include Hunt for the Red Baron, written and published by Small Rockets, Knights of the Sky by Microprose, and Red Baron by Dynamix and published by Sierra Entertainment which was followed up by a less successful sequel Red Baron II.

* Wings, a Cinemaware title in which the player is an Allied pilot in France during WWI, follows the vicissitudes of the Red Baron, from his rising to his death.

* Empire Earth has a German campaign in which four missions allow the players to control Manfred von Richthofen.

* Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has a radio-controlled aircraft called "Red Baron"

* Shining Force 2 has a Red Baron character.

* Sky Kid, an arcade video game by Namco depicts the fanciful air journey of the "Red Baron" and the "Blue Max".

* Titles for the Atari system in the 1980s, and in 2006 by Namco for Playstation 2, PSP, and Xbox game systems have also been released. [8]

* Red Baron 3D WWI Combat Flight Simulator.

* A flight game called "Snoopy vs. the Red Baron" was released recently and is a computer game with Snoopy as the protagonist and Manfred von Ricthofen as the antagonist. The game is available for Playstation 2, the PlayStation Portable and the PC.

* One of the Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves villains, the world famous fighter ace called the Black Baron, is an obvious reference to the Red Baron.

* The PC game Star Trek: Judgment Rites features the character Trelane from the original series TV episode Squire of Gothos imagining himself as World War I pilot complete with the Red Baron's signature Fokker Triplane.

* The arcade version of Trivial Pursuit included a player avatar called "Baron von Rightoften", designed to resemble the Red Baron.

* In the Nintendo DS game Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, one of the characters is named Manfred von Karma. Like the Red Baron, he is known for having a perfect career. He also receives his comeuppance from a single bullet.

* In RollerCoaster Tycoon, an installed track design for the stand-up roller coaster is titled "Red Baron".

* The Red Baron is mentioned in Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare as a codename.

* An MS-DOS PC video game, written in QBasic, called Red Baron 2573, in which the player pilots a laser-armed starfighter-like spacecraft called the "Red Baron".

* In Thrillville: Off the Rails there is an arcade flying ace named Barry von Rictoven who is referred to several times as "The Red Barry" and flies a triplane.

[edit] Board game references

* The Red Baron was the inspiration for Avalon Hill's 1970s board game "Richthofen's War," one of the first WW I aerial combat board games. [9]

* The Red Baron was also prominently featured in "Snoopy & The Red Baron", a Milton Bradley skill game released in 1970.

[edit] Food brands

* An American frozen foods manufacturer, Schwan Food Company, has adopted his nickname on Red Baron Pizza accompanied by an image that looks substantially unlike Richthofen. The image includes a handlebar moustache, which the real Richthofen never had.

[edit] Sports

* Formula One driving legend Michael Schumacher has been dubbed the Red Baron due to his German heritage and his fame as a driver for the red colored Ferrari team. Interestingly enough, like Richtofen, Schumacher has a younger brother, Ralf Schumacher who followed in his brother's steps as a driver, much like Lothar did with Richtofen.

* Baseball pitcher Rick Sutcliffe, during his career was nicknamed "The Red Baron", because of the color of his beard and hair.

* Former St. Louis Blues player, and current University of Michigan head hockey coach Red Berenson was also nicknamed "The Red Baron", both due to his hair color, and his last name.[10]

[edit] Rhinebeck Aerodrome

* The exploits of Richthofen and his peers inspired Cole Palen to create Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in Rhinebeck, N.Y. Palen is credited with creating the kit-plane craze in the U.S., and was instrumental in restoring and/or retrieving priceless examples of WW I aviation. Palen built a replica Fokker Dr I, which he flew in hundreds of simulated dogfights at Rhinebeck. [11]

*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

 

[BobbyLayne]

Big Rocks timed out at 11 a.m. (pick made at 11:07), PM was sent to Mad Sweeney at 10:55

12.11 Mad Sweeney - Next Selection, on the clock until Noon EST

12.12 Doug B - On Deck

12.13 DC Thunder - In The Hole

12.14 Thorn

12.15 Yankee23fan

12.16 Acer FC

12.17 FUBAR

12.18 Arsenal of Doom

12.19 Larry Boy 44

12.20 Mario Kart

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

One of the most successful fighter pilots of all time and due to his success, became a hero in Germany and obsessed with others trying to shoot him down.

12.10 Manfred von Richthofen aka Red Baron, celebrity

He was a fighter pilot for Germany in World War one, where he is credited with 80 confirmed air combat victories. Due to his air prowless, he became a legend in Germany. Germany even tried to ground him, as they feared that his death would be a huge blow to the war effort. He was finally killed in 1918 while flying near the Somme River. Who fired the bullet that killed him is disputed, with several people taking credit for the kill.

After his death, his legend continued on, as seen in the numerous mentions in pop culture history.

Snoopy!

mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("

Popular fiction

* In the comic strip Peanuts, and in later television specials, one of Snoopy's fantasies portrays him as a World War I flying ace, piloting a Sopwith Camel and carrying a personal grudge against the Red Baron.

* Snoopy's fictional connection with the "Bloody Red Baron" led to a series of popular song recordings on the subject, by the group The Royal Guardsmen (see music section).

* Corto Maltese, a character by Italian cartoonist Hugo Pratt, witnesses the defeat of the Red Baron.

* The troubled main character of DC Comics's Enemy Ace comics is based in part on the Red Baron.

* Richthofen is one of the main characters in Jeffrey Shaara's book, To the Last Man.

* The second volume in Kim Newman's Anno Dracula series, The Bloody Red Baron, features a vampire Richthofen who undergoes treatment in order to transform into a large bat-like creature and dispense with the need for an aeroplane.

* The last book in the Time Machine series, World War I Flying Ace, asks the reader to find out who shot down the Red Baron and take a photograph to prove the answer.

* In the novel Burning Shore by Wilbur Smith, one of the main character, Lord Andrew Killigan, is shot down by the Red Baron's Flying Circus.

[edit] Movies

* 1927: A Richthofen-based character appears briefly in the WWI-epic Wings, directed by air combat veteran William A. Wellman.[1]

* 1930: The Red Baron was a character in the Howard Hughes film Hell's Angels.

* 1963: In the film The Great Escape, a photo of Richthofen with Anthony Fokker and two other men is on the back wall (upper left photo) in Colonel von Luger's office. [2] [3]

* 1966: The George Peppard World War I film, The Blue Max; the Red Baron is briefly shown in this film.

* 1970: In the Blake Edwards movie "Darling Lili," set in World War I and starring Julie Andrews and Rock Hudson, the Red Baron is more accurately portrayed as quieter and more reserved than portrayed in "The Blue Max" (where the Baron comes across as rather pompous) and was played by actor Ingo Mogendorf.

* 1971: The Roger Corman movie, Von Richthofen and Brown, alternatively titled The Red Baron, focused on the titular characters, and starred John Phillip Law as Richthofen. [4]

* 1991: In The Rocketeer, a veteran pilot from the war regales a young girl about the time he "was shot down by the Red Baron."

* 1994: Revenge of the Red Baron; Mickey Rooney portrays a former WW I pilot haunted by a doll version of the Red Baron that flies a toy plane. Also stars Tobey Maguire and Laraine Newman. [5]

* 2008: The Red Baron movie.

[edit] Television

* In Hogan's Heroes, a popular TV series about a German prisoner-of-war camp in WWII, the camp's commander, Colonel Klink, during WWI, while piloting a plane, panicked and crashed, causing his passenger, the "Blue Baron," to walk with a limp for the rest of his life.

* George Lucas' television series The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles featured the Baron as a character, played by Marc Warren. [6]

* In one episode of the British television show "Blackadder Goes Forth", entitled "Private Plane", the Red Baron makes an appearance when Captain Blackadder and Baldrick are shot down and captured by the Germans. Richthofen is portrayed by Adrian Edmondson as a homosexual who lacks a sense of humour but tries to make up for it, parodying traditional British views of Germans on this subject. He relishes the chance to take on his greatest adversary, but when he meets him he launches into a soliloquy and is unceremoniously shot dead by this nemesis, the much less romantically minded Lord Flashheart, who declares, "What a poof!"

* Richthofen was featured in an episode of "Fantasy Island," in which a patron of the island wished to save the Baron from his doom. (Oct. 27, 1979) [7]

* Richthofen has been featured on two different shows on the History Channel. Once for Unsolved History and recently Man, Moment, Machine.

* In an episode of The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, when Mandy was walking out to Grim's dog house, where he slept, Grim complained that he should have his own room because the Red Baron keeps shooting his dog house--a double reference to Snoopy's "dogfights" with the Red Baron atop his doghouse.

* The Red Baron appeared as a villain in the original Scooby Doo series.

* In the Wacky Races, the Red Max is a probable descendant of the Red Baron, since his car his similar to the Red Baron's plane.

* In the Spongebob Squarepants episode "Shanghaied", when on the Flying Dutchman's ship, Spongebob mistakenly states that it belongs to the Red Baron.

* In several episodes of Home Improvement, when they are doing Tool Time, there is a model of Richthofen's triplane hanging on the wall above the first aid kit.

[edit] Science fiction

* In Space: Above and Beyond, reference is made to a "Chiggy von Richthofen" and several fighter squadrons are sent to destroy him in "Operation Red Baron."

* In Fred Saberhagen's science fiction short story "Wings Out of Shadow", which is part of the Berserker series, a captured historian uses "personality modules" based on several World War I fighter aces, including Richthofen.

* Char Aznable of Mobile Suit Gundam is based partially on the Red Baron, nicknamed the Red Comet. Both are aces famous for their striking red vehicles.

* In an episode of Swat Kats called The Ghost Pilot, the Red Lynx is a clear reference to the Red Baron.

* In the Battlestar Galactica episode "Scar," there is an ace Cylon Raider who is based on the Red Baron

* In the Star Wars Expanded Universe the character Baron Soontir Fel was inspired by The Red Baron

Song references and bands

* "Snoopy Vs The Red Baron" (The Hotshots, 1973)

* "Red Baron" (Vince Guaraldi)

* "Red Baron" (Billy Cobham) (Spectrum, 1973)

* "Red Baron/Blue Max" (Iced Earth)

* "Crimson Rider" (Masterplan)

* "Not the Red Baron" (Tori Amos)

* "Red Baron" ("The Bicycling Guitarist")

* Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron (The Royal Guardsmen, 1966)

* Return of the Red Baron (The Royal Guardsmen)

* The Smallest Astronaut (The Royal Guardsmen)

* Snoopy for President (The Royal Guardsmen)

* Snoopy's Christmas (The Royal Guardsmen)

* Barón Rojo

* Barão Vermelho

* "Gold Hick" (Guided by Voices)

* The Red Baron is a Straight Edge Hardcore punk Band from Florida

* "Peanuts" (Stephen Lynch), (References the rivalry between Snoopy and the Baron)

* "The Red Baron" is an instrumental by Dunedin surf-punk band The DDTs. In this case it was named for the nickname given to the bass-player Aaron "The Baron" Allcock.

[edit] Video game references

There have also been a number of WWI flight simulators involving Manfred von Richthofen. They include Hunt for the Red Baron, written and published by Small Rockets, Knights of the Sky by Microprose, and Red Baron by Dynamix and published by Sierra Entertainment which was followed up by a less successful sequel Red Baron II.

* Wings, a Cinemaware title in which the player is an Allied pilot in France during WWI, follows the vicissitudes of the Red Baron, from his rising to his death.

* Empire Earth has a German campaign in which four missions allow the players to control Manfred von Richthofen.

* Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has a radio-controlled aircraft called "Red Baron"

* Shining Force 2 has a Red Baron character.

* Sky Kid, an arcade video game by Namco depicts the fanciful air journey of the "Red Baron" and the "Blue Max".

* Titles for the Atari system in the 1980s, and in 2006 by Namco for Playstation 2, PSP, and Xbox game systems have also been released. [8]

* Red Baron 3D WWI Combat Flight Simulator.

* A flight game called "Snoopy vs. the Red Baron" was released recently and is a computer game with Snoopy as the protagonist and Manfred von Ricthofen as the antagonist. The game is available for Playstation 2, the PlayStation Portable and the PC.

* One of the Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves villains, the world famous fighter ace called the Black Baron, is an obvious reference to the Red Baron.

* The PC game Star Trek: Judgment Rites features the character Trelane from the original series TV episode Squire of Gothos imagining himself as World War I pilot complete with the Red Baron's signature Fokker Triplane.

* The arcade version of Trivial Pursuit included a player avatar called "Baron von Rightoften", designed to resemble the Red Baron.

* In the Nintendo DS game Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, one of the characters is named Manfred von Karma. Like the Red Baron, he is known for having a perfect career. He also receives his comeuppance from a single bullet.

* In RollerCoaster Tycoon, an installed track design for the stand-up roller coaster is titled "Red Baron".

* The Red Baron is mentioned in Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare as a codename.

* An MS-DOS PC video game, written in QBasic, called Red Baron 2573, in which the player pilots a laser-armed starfighter-like spacecraft called the "Red Baron".

* In Thrillville: Off the Rails there is an arcade flying ace named Barry von Rictoven who is referred to several times as "The Red Barry" and flies a triplane.

[edit] Board game references

* The Red Baron was the inspiration for Avalon Hill's 1970s board game "Richthofen's War," one of the first WW I aerial combat board games. [9]

* The Red Baron was also prominently featured in "Snoopy & The Red Baron", a Milton Bradley skill game released in 1970.

[edit] Food brands

* An American frozen foods manufacturer, Schwan Food Company, has adopted his nickname on Red Baron Pizza accompanied by an image that looks substantially unlike Richthofen. The image includes a handlebar moustache, which the real Richthofen never had.

[edit] Sports

* Formula One driving legend Michael Schumacher has been dubbed the Red Baron due to his German heritage and his fame as a driver for the red colored Ferrari team. Interestingly enough, like Richtofen, Schumacher has a younger brother, Ralf Schumacher who followed in his brother's steps as a driver, much like Lothar did with Richtofen.

* Baseball pitcher Rick Sutcliffe, during his career was nicknamed "The Red Baron", because of the color of his beard and hair.

* Former St. Louis Blues player, and current University of Michigan head hockey coach Red Berenson was also nicknamed "The Red Baron", both due to his hair color, and his last name.[10]

[edit] Rhinebeck Aerodrome

* The exploits of Richthofen and his peers inspired Cole Palen to create Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in Rhinebeck, N.Y. Palen is credited with creating the kit-plane craze in the U.S., and was instrumental in restoring and/or retrieving priceless examples of WW I aviation. Palen built a replica Fokker Dr I, which he flew in hundreds of simulated dogfights at Rhinebeck. [11]

*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

The pizza guy?

 

[FUBAR]

Two very interesting picks. Nice to see someone take advantage of the movie director qualifier in the non-painter category. Hitchcock is a fantastic pick, although that category will be a judging nightmare.

Simply put, McLaughlin is a badass. In terms of pure virtuoso chops, there's few guitar players in the same realm as him. His live performances with two other unpicked virtuoso, such as in the "Friday Night In San Francisco" record, are just mind-blowing. Phenomenal musician, and I'm really curious to see where he ends up in the ranking.

Glad to see someone take a director, and Hitchcock is certainly worthy. There is one other director that I am desperately hoping will go, and a few on the "would be great to see them selected" list. I can't imagine someone judging Hitchcock vs. the sculptors, though. Makes me feel better about my task of comparing poets and playwrights.

I agree and almost took Hitchcock in this draft, I had taken him in GAD. Don't forget architects in the category!

 

[BobbyLayne]

Trying to catch up on the thread today...I didn't see any comments on this, and in the interest of fairness I need to point out something that will have an unfortunate effect.

It's only a matter of time before this gets sniped, and I want it. This artist doesn't necessarily have the the quantity of work, simply because the scale of what we're talking about makes it impossible...

7.12 - Ustad Ahmad Lahauri, Artist/Non-Painter

One of the 'New Seven Wonders of the World'.

Taj Mahal

The Persian architect, Ustad Ahmad Lahauri is generally considered to be the principal designer of the Taj Mahal. Shah Jahan's 1648 memorial to wife Mumtaz Mahal, would, in 1983, be cited as "the jewel of Muslim art in India and one of the universally admired masterpieces of the world's heritage."

This is simply horrible, sloppy research.

Though the Taj Mahal is considered to be the zenith of Mughal architecture, the identity of its architect remains a mystery, in part perhaps because Shah Jahan seems to have played such an active role in its design. In his obsessive drive for perfection, he may have served as his own artistic director, making the personal overseeing of his artists part of his daily routine.

According to art historian Milo Beach, "This is something we simply have to speculate about. We know Shah Jahan was interested in architecture. We know he was interested in architectural decoration and design. Clearly, he was consulted. He was probably very interested in continually seeing the plans as they developed and commenting on them, and suggesting changes that might be made. The idea that he did any more than that, in terms of the design, is unrealistic. Clearly it's a building that was designed by professional architects who knew what they were doing, not by a prince and an amateur. But an architect was, in a sense, a kind of functionary. Architects and painters never achieved the kind of acclaim that placed them within the ranks of the nobility, for example. They were recognized, but they were never given an enormous amount of importance."

It has often been suggested that a European architect was responsible for building the Taj, but this is contradicted by the existence of the monuments previously constructed in India. "First of all, I can't imagine that there was one architect for the Taj Mahal or for any of these buildings," adds Beach. "I mean, it had to have been a team effort for such an enormous undertaking. Second of all, a building like the Taj grows out of the earlier artistic traditions in India, and in Iran as well, traditions that a European architect would know virtually nothing about. So I think it's extremely unlikely – there's certainly is no historical evidence whatsoever – that there was a European architect."

Several designers and architects – thirty seven men in all – are mentioned by name in the official Mughal histories, and it is probable that they would have worked together to form the creative team that shaped the Taj Mahal:

Ismail Afandi (a.k.a. Ismail Khan) who had worked for the great Ottomans in Turkey as a designer and builder of domes;

Qazim Khan, a goldsmith from Lahore who cast the gold finial that crowns the dome;

Chiranji Lal, a lapidary from Delhi chosen as the chief mosaicist;

Amanat Khan from Shiraz, the master calligrapher whose signature is inscribed on the Taj gateway;

Mohammed Hanif, Multan and Quandhar, master masons from Delhi; and

Mukrimat Khan and Mir Abdul Karim from Shiraz, chief supervisors and administrators.

Ustad Ahmad (a.k.a. Isa Khan), an architect in the court of Shah Jahan from Lahore, is most often credited as the chief architect (or plan drawer) of the Taj Mahal, based on a seventeenth century manuscript which claims that Ustad Ahmad was the architect of both the Taj Mahal and the Red Fort at Delhi.

http://www.pbs.org/treasuresoftheworld/taj...ild_design.htmlI'm sorry higgins.

I don't believe you would try to pass this off as legitimate if you had known better, but I can't let this go without correction.

 

[rodg12]

Two very interesting picks. Nice to see someone take advantage of the movie director qualifier in the non-painter category. Hitchcock is a fantastic pick, although that category will be a judging nightmare.

Simply put, McLaughlin is a badass. In terms of pure virtuoso chops, there's few guitar players in the same realm as him. His live performances with two other unpicked virtuoso, such as in the "Friday Night In San Francisco" record, are just mind-blowing. Phenomenal musician, and I'm really curious to see where he ends up in the ranking.

<_< Glad to see someone take a director, and Hitchcock is certainly worthy. There is one other director that I am desperately hoping will go, and a few on the "would be great to see them selected" list. I can't imagine someone judging Hitchcock vs. the sculptors, though. Makes me feel better about my task of comparing poets and playwrights.

Not to mention architects as well. Pretty strange mix for a category, IMO, and will be probably be the most difficult to judge. Tough, tough job.

 

[mad sweeney]

sorry for the delay. Last pick I overlooked an explorer so I'm going to take a chance on my performer being here. I don't know who's going to get moved where so for now thisll be a wildcard. The discovery of the trade route from Atlantic Europe to India brought on a massive shift of power from the increasingly Arab Mediterranean to the Atlantic. It also set the stage and enabled Portuguese and British sea faring empires. I'll write up more later.

Vasco da Gama wildcard

 

[higgins]

Trying to catch up on the thread today...I didn't see any comments on this, and in the interest of fairness I need to point out something that will have an unfortunate effect.

It's only a matter of time before this gets sniped, and I want it. This artist doesn't necessarily have the the quantity of work, simply because the scale of what we're talking about makes it impossible...

7.12 - Ustad Ahmad Lahauri, Artist/Non-Painter

One of the 'New Seven Wonders of the World'.

Taj Mahal

The Persian architect, Ustad Ahmad Lahauri is generally considered to be the principal designer of the Taj Mahal. Shah Jahan's 1648 memorial to wife Mumtaz Mahal, would, in 1983, be cited as "the jewel of Muslim art in India and one of the universally admired masterpieces of the world's heritage."

This is simply horrible, sloppy research.

Though the Taj Mahal is considered to be the zenith of Mughal architecture, the identity of its architect remains a mystery, in part perhaps because Shah Jahan seems to have played such an active role in its design. In his obsessive drive for perfection, he may have served as his own artistic director, making the personal overseeing of his artists part of his daily routine.

According to art historian Milo Beach, "This is something we simply have to speculate about. We know Shah Jahan was interested in architecture. We know he was interested in architectural decoration and design. Clearly, he was consulted. He was probably very interested in continually seeing the plans as they developed and commenting on them, and suggesting changes that might be made. The idea that he did any more than that, in terms of the design, is unrealistic. Clearly it's a building that was designed by professional architects who knew what they were doing, not by a prince and an amateur. But an architect was, in a sense, a kind of functionary. Architects and painters never achieved the kind of acclaim that placed them within the ranks of the nobility, for example. They were recognized, but they were never given an enormous amount of importance."

It has often been suggested that a European architect was responsible for building the Taj, but this is contradicted by the existence of the monuments previously constructed in India. "First of all, I can't imagine that there was one architect for the Taj Mahal or for any of these buildings," adds Beach. "I mean, it had to have been a team effort for such an enormous undertaking. Second of all, a building like the Taj grows out of the earlier artistic traditions in India, and in Iran as well, traditions that a European architect would know virtually nothing about. So I think it's extremely unlikely – there's certainly is no historical evidence whatsoever – that there was a European architect."

Several designers and architects – thirty seven men in all – are mentioned by name in the official Mughal histories, and it is probable that they would have worked together to form the creative team that shaped the Taj Mahal:

Ismail Afandi (a.k.a. Ismail Khan) who had worked for the great Ottomans in Turkey as a designer and builder of domes;

Qazim Khan, a goldsmith from Lahore who cast the gold finial that crowns the dome;

Chiranji Lal, a lapidary from Delhi chosen as the chief mosaicist;

Amanat Khan from Shiraz, the master calligrapher whose signature is inscribed on the Taj gateway;

Mohammed Hanif, Multan and Quandhar, master masons from Delhi; and

Mukrimat Khan and Mir Abdul Karim from Shiraz, chief supervisors and administrators.

Ustad Ahmad (a.k.a. Isa Khan), an architect in the court of Shah Jahan from Lahore, is most often credited as the chief architect (or plan drawer) of the Taj Mahal, based on a seventeenth century manuscript which claims that Ustad Ahmad was the architect of both the Taj Mahal and the Red Fort at Delhi.

http://www.pbs.org/treasuresoftheworld/taj...ild_design.htmlI'm sorry higgins.

I don't believe you would try to pass this off as legitimate if you had known better, but I can't let this go without correction.

I have no issue with this -- I admit that I simply didn't do a ton of research on this pick. That there were many different people involved does not surprise me...but, note that there is one reference from here that states:

Building began around 1632 and was completed around 1653, and employed thousands of artisans and craftsmen.[1] The Persian[2] architect, Ustad Ahmad Lahauri is generally considered to be the principal designer of the Taj Mahal

If the judger of this category prefers, I can do a little more digging to defend my pick.

 

[rodg12]

Calvin is an iffy pick for me...I mean, I'm not even sure where I'd rank him in terms of "reformers" or Christianity, but to rank him in terms of "top 20 religious figures of all time" is really tough...(I want to say Luther is in a similar situation, but I think Luther is pretty much the #1 reformer and the one who first moved to get the Bible back in the hands of the masses, which makes him important... But still not sure how he'd rank compared to people like Jesus, Paul, Mohammad, etc.)

I know you're not going to believe this, Larry, but in many ways Jean Calvin is more influential a religious figure than Jesus of Nazareth. A very good argument could be made that much of the attributes of the Protestant church in America is more due to the actions of this man than to anything Jesus ever preached.

This might be one of the most preposterously stupid statements I've ever read on this board. And that's saying something.

 

[BobbyLayne]

sorry for the delay. Last pick I overlooked an explorer so I'm going to take a chance on my performer being here. I don't know who's going to get moved where so for now thisll be a wildcard. The discovery of the trade route from Atlantic Europe to India brought on a massive shift of power from the increasingly Arab Mediterranean to the Atlantic. It also set the stage and enabled Portuguese and British sea faring empires. I'll write up more later.

Vasco da Gama wildcard

 

[BobbyLayne]

Bit surprised at the lack of musician picks thus far. Early or not, I was getting a little paranoid sitting on this pick. Shouldn't come as much of a surprise to those who followed my comments on the Greatest American Draft, but here we go.

7.20 Miles Dewey Davis III Musician/Performer

I haven't caught up with the judges commentary yet, but this is a masterful pick.

 

[krista4]

Two very interesting picks. Nice to see someone take advantage of the movie director qualifier in the non-painter category. Hitchcock is a fantastic pick, although that category will be a judging nightmare.

Simply put, McLaughlin is a badass. In terms of pure virtuoso chops, there's few guitar players in the same realm as him. His live performances with two other unpicked virtuoso, such as in the "Friday Night In San Francisco" record, are just mind-blowing. Phenomenal musician, and I'm really curious to see where he ends up in the ranking.

Glad to see someone take a director, and Hitchcock is certainly worthy. There is one other director that I am desperately hoping will go, and a few on the "would be great to see them selected" list. I can't imagine someone judging Hitchcock vs. the sculptors, though. Makes me feel better about my task of comparing poets and playwrights.

I agree and almost took Hitchcock in this draft, I had taken him in GAD. Don't forget architects in the category!

Good point; had forgotten about that. Ack, that will be difficult.

 

[Uncle Humuna]

11.07 Frank Sinatra, Musician/Performer/The Man

2) Technical mastery of one's instrument.Loses some marks here.

Some of you might argue that I'm nuts, but I'm keeping this in the context of true masters of their instruments.

Technically, Frank was not an elite singer. He's in the converation if just discussing popular music, but we're not doing that.

As someone who has been singing in choirs his entire life, has taken lessons, and thus knows at least something on the subject ... I strenuously object.Frank's technical mastery over his voice is astounding. I know it's difficult to listen to, say, an opera singer, and then compare them to a crooner like Sinatra because it's easy to think the opera singer is using better technique. It's actually very different technique. That should not in any way lessen opinions on Sinatra's abilities. Every time I listen to Sinatra I'm agog. That's especially true whenever I see videotape of him singing because he makes it look so effortless, when it isn't. He's truly a unique talent.

Some great input here.Where I was headed with my analysis WAS in comparing him to, say, opera singers.

While he was the best at what he did, I can't imagine him singing opera, and I guess that is why I docked him a few points.

I suppose though, that most opera stars would not be able to do what Frank does, and I should do the same for them . . .

 

[Uncle Humuna]

2) Technical mastery of one's instrument.

On par with the classical elite. A true virtuoso. The accolades from piers are unmatched.

Don't want to spotlight, so will wait until draft is over to post more quotes.

Are these compliments coming from the sea lions at the San Fran wharf?

They gave him their seal of approval.

This was right before I went to bed and after a couple of glasses of wine.

I even looked at the word and thought . . . "that doesn't look right".

 

[Orange Crush]

Calvin is an iffy pick for me...I mean, I'm not even sure where I'd rank him in terms of "reformers" or Christianity, but to rank him in terms of "top 20 religious figures of all time" is really tough...(I want to say Luther is in a similar situation, but I think Luther is pretty much the #1 reformer and the one who first moved to get the Bible back in the hands of the masses, which makes him important... But still not sure how he'd rank compared to people like Jesus, Paul, Mohammad, etc.)

I know you're not going to believe this, Larry, but in many ways Jean Calvin is more influential a religious figure than Jesus of Nazareth. A very good argument could be made that much of the attributes of the Protestant church in America is more due to the actions of this man than to anything Jesus ever preached.

This might be one of the most preposterously stupid statements I've ever read on this board. And that's saying something.

Really? Did you read Tim's follow-up where he explained that statement? I thought it was spot on.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Trying to catch up on the thread today...I didn't see any comments on this, and in the interest of fairness I need to point out something that will have an unfortunate effect.

It's only a matter of time before this gets sniped, and I want it. This artist doesn't necessarily have the the quantity of work, simply because the scale of what we're talking about makes it impossible...

7.12 - Ustad Ahmad Lahauri, Artist/Non-Painter

One of the 'New Seven Wonders of the World'.

Taj Mahal

The Persian architect, Ustad Ahmad Lahauri is generally considered to be the principal designer of the Taj Mahal. Shah Jahan's 1648 memorial to wife Mumtaz Mahal, would, in 1983, be cited as "the jewel of Muslim art in India and one of the universally admired masterpieces of the world's heritage."

This is simply horrible, sloppy research.

Though the Taj Mahal is considered to be the zenith of Mughal architecture, the identity of its architect remains a mystery, in part perhaps because Shah Jahan seems to have played such an active role in its design. In his obsessive drive for perfection, he may have served as his own artistic director, making the personal overseeing of his artists part of his daily routine.

According to art historian Milo Beach, "This is something we simply have to speculate about. We know Shah Jahan was interested in architecture. We know he was interested in architectural decoration and design. Clearly, he was consulted. He was probably very interested in continually seeing the plans as they developed and commenting on them, and suggesting changes that might be made. The idea that he did any more than that, in terms of the design, is unrealistic. Clearly it's a building that was designed by professional architects who knew what they were doing, not by a prince and an amateur. But an architect was, in a sense, a kind of functionary. Architects and painters never achieved the kind of acclaim that placed them within the ranks of the nobility, for example. They were recognized, but they were never given an enormous amount of importance."

It has often been suggested that a European architect was responsible for building the Taj, but this is contradicted by the existence of the monuments previously constructed in India. "First of all, I can't imagine that there was one architect for the Taj Mahal or for any of these buildings," adds Beach. "I mean, it had to have been a team effort for such an enormous undertaking. Second of all, a building like the Taj grows out of the earlier artistic traditions in India, and in Iran as well, traditions that a European architect would know virtually nothing about. So I think it's extremely unlikely – there's certainly is no historical evidence whatsoever – that there was a European architect."

Several designers and architects – thirty seven men in all – are mentioned by name in the official Mughal histories, and it is probable that they would have worked together to form the creative team that shaped the Taj Mahal:

Ismail Afandi (a.k.a. Ismail Khan) who had worked for the great Ottomans in Turkey as a designer and builder of domes;

Qazim Khan, a goldsmith from Lahore who cast the gold finial that crowns the dome;

Chiranji Lal, a lapidary from Delhi chosen as the chief mosaicist;

Amanat Khan from Shiraz, the master calligrapher whose signature is inscribed on the Taj gateway;

Mohammed Hanif, Multan and Quandhar, master masons from Delhi; and

Mukrimat Khan and Mir Abdul Karim from Shiraz, chief supervisors and administrators.

Ustad Ahmad (a.k.a. Isa Khan), an architect in the court of Shah Jahan from Lahore, is most often credited as the chief architect (or plan drawer) of the Taj Mahal, based on a seventeenth century manuscript which claims that Ustad Ahmad was the architect of both the Taj Mahal and the Red Fort at Delhi.

http://www.pbs.org/treasuresoftheworld/taj...ild_design.htmlI'm sorry higgins.

I don't believe you would try to pass this off as legitimate if you had known better, but I can't let this go without correction.

I have no issue with this -- I admit that I simply didn't do a ton of research on this pick. That there were many different people involved does not surprise me...but, note that there is one reference from here that states:

Building began around 1632 and was completed around 1653, and employed thousands of artisans and craftsmen.[1] The Persian[2] architect, Ustad Ahmad Lahauri is generally considered to be the principal designer of the Taj Mahal

If the judger of this category prefers, I can do a little more digging to defend my pick.

Listen, I wish we could give him credit for the Red Fort as well, but all he did there was lay the foundation. You can try to research this some more, but I don't think you're going to uncover any evidence to support the claim. You can start with another wiki article:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_and_a...f_the_Taj_Mahal

I've been to visit both structures and they are amazing; if one man were responsible for either (let alone both), that man would be proclaimed the greatest architect the world had ever known.

The unfortunate thing is there simply is not enough evidentuary matter in recorded history about the architecture of either building project. At that time architects did not have the stature to command autonomy or oversee a massive project of this scale. You will find there is little other than passing references to him.

This pick, to me, is like trying to give one person credit for the pyramids, St. Peters or Westminister; it simply cannot be done.

higgins, I appreciate your gracious response. I am not trying to start something here, I'm just trying to be fair. IMO it would unjust to the rest of the people in the draft if you received a high ranking for a pick that is not legitimate.

If I'm wrong about any of this, and you can present evidence that supports your claim, I will to admit my mistake, and be the first congratulate you.

 

[Ozymandias]

Since Calvin, and Hobbes have been taken, does this eliminate Calvin and Hobbes in the wild card selection?

 

[Doug B]

Vasco De Gama was a semi-snipe ... depending on De Gama being available late has kept me punting the Discoverer category over the past few rounds. Nice selection, sweeney.

Now ... turning to another category that I've been Ray-Guying for a while now. A few recent snipes have prodded me to pull the trigger here:

12.12 - King David, Religious Figure

David (Hebrew: דָּוִד, Standard Dawid Tiberian dɔwið "beloved", Arabic: داود‎ Dāwud) was the second king of the united Kingdom of Israel according to the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament. He is depicted as a righteous king, although not without fault, as well as an acclaimed warrior, musician and poet (he is traditionally credited with the authorship of many of the Psalms). The narrative depicts him throughout his life as conflicted between his ruthless ambition and lusts, and his desire to serve God. The biblical chronology sets his life c.1037 - 970 BC, his reign over Judah c.1007 - 1000 BC, and his reign over the united Kingdom of Israel c.1000 - 970 BC.

David in Judaism

David's reign represents the formation of a coherent Jewish kingdom centered in Jerusalem and the institution of an eternal royal dynasty; the failure of this "eternal" Davidic dynasty after some four centuries led to the later elaboration of the concept of the Messiah, at first a human descendant of David who would occupy the throne of a restored kingdom, later an apocalyptic figure who would usher in the end of time.

In modern Judaism David's descent from a convert ... is taken as proof of the importance of converts within Judaism. David is also viewed as a tragic figure; his acquisition of Xxxxxx, and the loss of his son are viewed as his central tragedies.

Many legends have grown around the figure of David. According to one Rabbinic tradition, David was raised as the illegitimate son of his father Xxxxx and spent his early years herding his father's sheep in the wilderness while his brothers were in school. Only at his anointing by Xxxxx - when the oil from Xxxxx's flask turned to diamonds and pearls - was his true identity as Xxxxx's son revealed. David's adultery with Xxxxx was only an opportunity to demonstrate the power of repentance, and some Talmudic authors stated that it was not adultery at all, quoting a supposed Jewish practice of divorce on the eve of battle. Furthermore, according to David's apologists, the death of Xxxxx was not to be considered murder, on the basis that Uriah had committed a capital offence by refusing to obey a direct command from the King.

David in Christianity

Originally an earthly king ruling by divine appointment ("the anointed one", as the title Messiah had it), the "son of David" became in the last two pre-Christian centuries the apocalyptic and heavenly who would deliver Israel and usher in a new kingdom. This was the background to the concept of Messiahship in early Christianity, which interpreted the career of Jesus "by means of the titles and functions assigned to David in the mysticism of the Zion cult, in which he served as priest-king and in which he was the mediator between God and man." The early Church believed that "the life of David [foreshadowed] the life of Christ; Bethlehem is the birthplace of both; the shepherd life of David points out Christ, the Good Shepherd; the five stones chosen to slay Goliath are typical of the five wounds; the betrayal by his trusted counsellor, Xxxxx, and the passage over the Cedron remind us of Christ's Sacred Passion. Many of the Davidic Psalms, as we learn from the New Testament, are clearly typical of the future Messiahs."

David in Islam

David (Arabic Dawood) is one of the prophets of Islam, to whom the Zabur (Psalms) were revealed by God (Allah). The Islamic tradition includes many elements from the Jewish history of David, such as his battle with Xxxxxx, but rejects the Biblical portrayal of David as an adulterer and murderer - the rejection is based on the concept of ismah, or the infallibility of the prophets ...

David also appears in various ahadith (oral traditions derived from those who knew the Prophet Mohammed). In Sahih al-Bukhari and in Abd-Allah ibn Amr he is named as the person whose way of fasting and praying is the most perfect ... David was also given the most beautiful voice of all mankind ... In one hadith, Abu Hurairah narrates that Muhammad said, "The reciting of the Zabur (i.e. Psalms) was made easy for David. He used to order that his riding animals be saddled, and would finish reciting the Zabur before they were saddled." Other hadith relate that David's reading of psalms was so entrancing that fish would leave the sea to listen when he recited, and that it was he who began the building of the Holy Temple ... and which later became the site of Al-Aqsa Mosque.

Archaeological evidence

The Book of Xxxxx is the primary source of information on his life and reign; there is [scant] archaeological evidence to confirm the Bible's [specific] picture of David (although the Tel Dan stele [below] suggests that a king named David founded a Judaean royal dynasty by the 9th-century BC), but his story has been of immense importance to subsequent Jewish and Christian culture.

An inscription found at Tel Dan dated c.850-835 BC, as well as the Mesha Stele from Moab have been interpreted as containing the phrase 'House of David' (ביתדוד). Xxxx Xxxx has proposed that an inscription of c. 945 BC by the Egyptian Pharaoh Shoshenq I mentions "the highlands of David," but this has not been widely accepted. "If the reading of בית דוד [House of David] on the Tel Dan stele is correct, ... then we have solid evidence that a 9th-century BC Aramean king considered the founder of the Judean dynasty to be somebody named דוד (David)," [according to a leading religious studies professor at Pepperdine].

The Tel Dan stele is largely accepted as supporting the historical existence of a Judean royal dynasty tracing its descent from an individual named David.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Vasco De Gama was a semi-snipe ... depending on De Gama being available late has kept me punting the Discoverer category over the past few rounds. Nice selection, sweeney.

Now ... turning to another category that I've been Ray-Guying for a while now. A few recent snipes have prodded me to pull the trigger here:

12.12 - King David, Religious Figure

You could also place him as a Military figure, after all, no one smote like David.