Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Going with an Explorer here to shore up that category with another one I've been eyeing for a few rounds that I hope wasn't also drafted.........
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World's Greatest Draft (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Usual21 pick 3.14 James Cook
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
REally? How did I miss that?
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I searched captain. My bad.
Thorn
Footballguy
You could have searched "brought the clap to Hawaii".
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
It's early....let's delete all these posts, no one will ever know.
Oh well, took until round 20 last time, but you figure it will happen every draft.
Oh well, took until round 20 last time, but you figure it will happen every draft.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yeah, I hate being that guy. **** happens.It's early....let's delete all these posts, no one will ever know.
Oh well, took until round 20 last time, but you figure it will happen every draft.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Okay, the explorer I figured no one would take because he's arab and not that well known in the face of the European dominance is my pick.
IBN BATTUTA (or IBN BATUTA) (1304-78), whose proper name was Abu-Abdullah Mahommed, one of the most remarkable of travellers and autobiographers, was born at Tangier in 1304. he entered on his travels at the age of twenty-one (1325), and closed them in 1355. Their compass was so vast that we can but give the barest outline of them. His journeys lasted for a period of nearly thirty years and covered almost the entirety of the known Islamic world and beyond, extending from North Africa, West Africa, Southern Europe and Eastern Europe in the West, to the Middle East, Indian subcontinent, Central Asia, Southeast Asia and China in the East, a distance readily surpassing that of his predecessors and his near-contemporary Marco Polo.
Ibn Battuta's sea voyages and references to shipping reveal that the Muslims completely dominated the maritime activity of the Red Sea, the Arabian Sea, the Indian Ocean, and the Chinese waters. Also it is seen that though the Christian traders were subject to certain restrictions, most of the economic negotiations were transacted on the basis of equality and mutual respect.
Ibn Battuta, one of the most remarkable travellers of all time, visited China sixty years after Marco Polo and in fact travelled 75,000 miles, much more than Marco Polo. Yet Battuta is never mentioned in geography books used in Muslim countries, let alone those in the West. Ibn Battuta's contribution to geography is unquestionably as great as that of any geographer yet the accounts of his travels are not easily accessible except to the specialist. The omission of reference to Ibn Battuta's contribution in geography books is not an isolated example. All great Musiims whether historians, doctors, astronomers, scientists or chemists suffer the same fate. One can understand why these great Muslims are ignored by the West. But the indifference of the Muslim governments is incomprehensible.
His travels rivaled Marco Polo. Problem is, when your in the pool it's hard to yell "Ibn!"............... "Battuta!"
IBN BATTUTA (or IBN BATUTA) (1304-78), whose proper name was Abu-Abdullah Mahommed, one of the most remarkable of travellers and autobiographers, was born at Tangier in 1304. he entered on his travels at the age of twenty-one (1325), and closed them in 1355. Their compass was so vast that we can but give the barest outline of them. His journeys lasted for a period of nearly thirty years and covered almost the entirety of the known Islamic world and beyond, extending from North Africa, West Africa, Southern Europe and Eastern Europe in the West, to the Middle East, Indian subcontinent, Central Asia, Southeast Asia and China in the East, a distance readily surpassing that of his predecessors and his near-contemporary Marco Polo.
Ibn Battuta's sea voyages and references to shipping reveal that the Muslims completely dominated the maritime activity of the Red Sea, the Arabian Sea, the Indian Ocean, and the Chinese waters. Also it is seen that though the Christian traders were subject to certain restrictions, most of the economic negotiations were transacted on the basis of equality and mutual respect.
Ibn Battuta, one of the most remarkable travellers of all time, visited China sixty years after Marco Polo and in fact travelled 75,000 miles, much more than Marco Polo. Yet Battuta is never mentioned in geography books used in Muslim countries, let alone those in the West. Ibn Battuta's contribution to geography is unquestionably as great as that of any geographer yet the accounts of his travels are not easily accessible except to the specialist. The omission of reference to Ibn Battuta's contribution in geography books is not an isolated example. All great Musiims whether historians, doctors, astronomers, scientists or chemists suffer the same fate. One can understand why these great Muslims are ignored by the West. But the indifference of the Muslim governments is incomprehensible.
His travels rivaled Marco Polo. Problem is, when your in the pool it's hard to yell "Ibn!"............... "Battuta!"
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
That couldn't possibly be a snipe........ Was it?
So...what do you guys think about James Cameron as the Team BobbyLayne Explorer? 
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
No, general comment about how picked over the cat has become.OK, what's the name of the Virgin Airlines owner?That couldn't possibly be a snipe........ Was it?
ETA: Who 'discovered' Jenna James?
Last edited by a moderator:
Thorn
Footballguy
13.07 Peter the Great, Leader
(Tim, please move Cromwell to Wildcard)
Peter the Great was determined to reform the domestic structure of Russia. He had a simple desire to push Russia - willingly or otherwise - into the modern era as existed then. While his military reforms were ongoing, he reformed the church, education and areas of Russia's economy.
One of the bastions to change from Peter's point of view was the Church. In bygone years it had been semi-autonomous. For someone who believed in royal absolutism this was unacceptable. The subordination of the church within Russia was completed without a problem.
There were other reasons to explain Peter's interest in the Church: it was a very rich institution and Peter wanted this wealth; it refused to be modernised; it owned vast amounts of land and serfs and, as such, could be seen to be a rival to the tsar.
In 1700, the head of the church, Patriach Adrian, died. Peter did not replace him. In 1701, the control of church property was handed over to a government department called the Monastyrskii Prikaz. This received monastic revenues and paid monks a salary. The simple fact that it was a government department meant that it was subordinate to the will of Peter. In 1721, the church hierarchy was officially abolished by the Ecclesiastical Reservation and the church was placed under the control of the Holy Synod and was fully linked to the state. The 1721 Regulation specifically stated what the clergy could do; in essence, it was designed to control their daily life so that they became an apparatus of the state. The task of the clergy was seen as two-fold: to work for the state and to make their congregations totally submissive to the state by convincing them that Peter was all but God-like to ensure the population of Russia's total subordination to the crown.
Education also had to be modernised if Russia was going to survive as a power in Europe. Peter wanted a modern army and navy that would be feared throughout Europe. The officers in the military had to be educated or this would never be achieved. While on his travels as a youth, Peter had seen the importance of the knowledge of science and maths for military success. The correct use of artillery needed a knowledge of angles; the building of fortifications needed a knowledge of engineering. Naval officers needed to know how to navigate.
In 1701, the School of Navigation and Maths was founded in Moscow. This was run by British teachers. In the same year, similar schools were created for artillery and languages. In 1707, a School of Medicine was created and in 1712 a School of Engineering. Thirty maths schools were created in the provinces and in 1724, a year before Peter's death, a School of Science was established though the lack of scientists in Russia meant that it had to be initially staffed by foreigners.
For the educated public, a newspaper was established in 1703 called the "Vedomosti". It was issued by the state. Peter believed that military leaders had to be educated but that a loyal public should also be if Russia was to shake off its reputation of being steeped in medievalism.
Many young noblemen were encouraged to do as Peter had done - go to western Europe and experience what it was like and also learn. Young Russian noblemen were encouraged to learn about the latest technology, economic theory and political science. A broadening of knowledge was not seen as being a threat by Peter; on the contrary, he believed that these young educated noblemen were of great benefit to Russia's development.
Peter also expected the young and educated to shun Russian traditions and adopt what he considered to be western values. Beards were shaved off; western clothes were encouraged; the nobility were expected to hold western style tea parties and social gatherings.
Peter was also aware that the internal economy of Russia needed reforming. His travels abroad had convinced Peter that Russia was too backward. As tsar he wanted to apply western mercantilism to stimulate agriculture, industry and commerce. A richer Russia could only benefit the position of the tsar as more could be taxed and invested into the military. A further strengthened military would further enhance his power. In fact, Peter achieved less than he would have liked to but he did kick start the economic growth of Russia that was witnessed in the Eighteenth Century.
The state dominated all forms of industry. The state was the source of capital, raw materials and labour. The state was also the main purchaser of finished goods. In 1718, two colleges were created for commerce and mines and manufacturing. Under state direction, factories of all types were developed. Prices were fixed by the state and the state had the right to be the first purchaser from the producers - but at a price fixed by the state. Private businesses could make a profit only on the surplus of produce which the state did not want and many successful enterprises were simply taken over by the state.
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
Military Reforms
mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("
Peter the Great's military reforms massively modernised Russia’s Army and Navy. By his death in 1725, Russia's military was a force to be reckoned with. These reforms supplemented the reforms that were going on at a general domestic level.
The Russia army was both enlarged and made into a professional unit by Peter the Great. Peter had a very clear idea about the direction of his foreign policy and he needed a strong army to execute this. A strong army would also make his own position much stronger and free him from the threat of coups.
Before the rule of Peter the Great, the Russian army had been amateur. It was basically based on villagers going into battle to defend the Motherland, lead by village elders with no or little knowledge about military leadership. There were some professionals in the army but they were few and far between. The Streltsy and the Cossacks were professional units but they were officered by foreigners.
Peter the Great took the best parts of both systems and introduced a standing army in 1699. All soldiers received similar training so that the army had uniformity. The Streltsy was abolished. Peter the Great had hated it ever since it had backed a joint rule between Peter and Ivan. Two new elite Guards regiments were created - the Preobrazhenskii and the Semeovskii. These were officered by an elite. From 1705 on, both nobles and serfs could be conscripted for life long service in the army. By 1725, Russia had 130,000 men in the army. Discipline was savage but by the death of Peter, the army was up to European standards though untested in western Europe.
The navy was essentially Peter the Great’s creation. The navy was based on the moth of the River Don and then expanded to the Baltic Sea. As Russia lacked the necessary expertise, Peter the Great brought in foreign experts and by 1725, Russia had 48 ships of the line and 800 galleys. The officers in the navy were foreign but the crews were Russian.
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
Government Reforms
mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("
Peter the Great saw the government in the same light as the military and the general domestic situation - in need of major reform. However, by the time Peter died in 1725, there had been no lasting improvements.
Russia was essentially divided into three with regards to divisions of government: local, provincial and central.
Local government: In January 1699, towns were allowed to elect their own officials, collect revenue and stimulate trade. The gift of greater powers of local government was deliberately done in an effort to reduce the power of provincial governments. The work of local government was co-ordinated by the Ratusha based in Moscow. In 1702, towns were governed by an elective board which replaced the old system of elected sheriffs. By 1724, this was again changed so that towns could govern themselves through elected guilds of better off citizens. On paper these reforms were fine. But in reality the power of the local landlord and the provincial governor was immense and difficult to break.
Provincial government: In December 1707, Russia was divided into 8 guberniia. Each was lead by a Gubnator who had full power within his guberniia. Each guberniia was further divided into districts called uzeda. By November 1718, the number of guberniia had increased to 12 and each one was divided into 40 provintsiia which were then further divided into districts (uzedas). A Gubernator was directly answerable to Peter the Great.
Central government: To begin with, Peter was advised by a council and his orders were carried out by 40 departments in the Prikazy. Some had specific functions while others had vague responsibilities which could overspill into other departments making for inefficiency.
In 1711, Peter appointed a 9 man senate which evolved into a chief executive and the highest court of appeal. It was supervised by army officers on Peter's behalf until 1715 when an Inspector-General was appointed who in turn was replaced in 1722 with a Procurator-General who was the most powerful man in Russia after Peter.
The Prikazy was abolished in 1718 and replaced with a scheme borrowed from Sweden whereby 9 colleges were established with a specific function to cover the whole of Russia. Each college was run by 10 to 12 men and all their decisions were collective.
As early as 1711, an Oberfiscal was appointed aided by a staff of fiscals who had to be secret appointments as they had the task of checking the honesty and integrity of government officials.
All careers were open to the talented and educated - though, invariably, this favoured the side of the nobility. Promotion in the civil administration or the military in theory was on merit. There were 14 steps in the military's promotional ladder whereas the civil service had just 8. Those who reached the top step in both ladders were automatically granted hereditary noble status. However, the system did not operate as it should have as those at the top or nearing the top of the promotion ladder did nothing to encourage those mid way up the ladder in terms of developing their career as they were seen as a threat to those at the top.*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
(Tim, please move Cromwell to Wildcard)
Domestic Reformsmytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("
Peter the Great was determined to reform the domestic structure of Russia. He had a simple desire to push Russia - willingly or otherwise - into the modern era as existed then. While his military reforms were ongoing, he reformed the church, education and areas of Russia's economy.
One of the bastions to change from Peter's point of view was the Church. In bygone years it had been semi-autonomous. For someone who believed in royal absolutism this was unacceptable. The subordination of the church within Russia was completed without a problem.
There were other reasons to explain Peter's interest in the Church: it was a very rich institution and Peter wanted this wealth; it refused to be modernised; it owned vast amounts of land and serfs and, as such, could be seen to be a rival to the tsar.
In 1700, the head of the church, Patriach Adrian, died. Peter did not replace him. In 1701, the control of church property was handed over to a government department called the Monastyrskii Prikaz. This received monastic revenues and paid monks a salary. The simple fact that it was a government department meant that it was subordinate to the will of Peter. In 1721, the church hierarchy was officially abolished by the Ecclesiastical Reservation and the church was placed under the control of the Holy Synod and was fully linked to the state. The 1721 Regulation specifically stated what the clergy could do; in essence, it was designed to control their daily life so that they became an apparatus of the state. The task of the clergy was seen as two-fold: to work for the state and to make their congregations totally submissive to the state by convincing them that Peter was all but God-like to ensure the population of Russia's total subordination to the crown.
Education also had to be modernised if Russia was going to survive as a power in Europe. Peter wanted a modern army and navy that would be feared throughout Europe. The officers in the military had to be educated or this would never be achieved. While on his travels as a youth, Peter had seen the importance of the knowledge of science and maths for military success. The correct use of artillery needed a knowledge of angles; the building of fortifications needed a knowledge of engineering. Naval officers needed to know how to navigate.
In 1701, the School of Navigation and Maths was founded in Moscow. This was run by British teachers. In the same year, similar schools were created for artillery and languages. In 1707, a School of Medicine was created and in 1712 a School of Engineering. Thirty maths schools were created in the provinces and in 1724, a year before Peter's death, a School of Science was established though the lack of scientists in Russia meant that it had to be initially staffed by foreigners.
For the educated public, a newspaper was established in 1703 called the "Vedomosti". It was issued by the state. Peter believed that military leaders had to be educated but that a loyal public should also be if Russia was to shake off its reputation of being steeped in medievalism.
Many young noblemen were encouraged to do as Peter had done - go to western Europe and experience what it was like and also learn. Young Russian noblemen were encouraged to learn about the latest technology, economic theory and political science. A broadening of knowledge was not seen as being a threat by Peter; on the contrary, he believed that these young educated noblemen were of great benefit to Russia's development.
Peter also expected the young and educated to shun Russian traditions and adopt what he considered to be western values. Beards were shaved off; western clothes were encouraged; the nobility were expected to hold western style tea parties and social gatherings.
Peter was also aware that the internal economy of Russia needed reforming. His travels abroad had convinced Peter that Russia was too backward. As tsar he wanted to apply western mercantilism to stimulate agriculture, industry and commerce. A richer Russia could only benefit the position of the tsar as more could be taxed and invested into the military. A further strengthened military would further enhance his power. In fact, Peter achieved less than he would have liked to but he did kick start the economic growth of Russia that was witnessed in the Eighteenth Century.
The state dominated all forms of industry. The state was the source of capital, raw materials and labour. The state was also the main purchaser of finished goods. In 1718, two colleges were created for commerce and mines and manufacturing. Under state direction, factories of all types were developed. Prices were fixed by the state and the state had the right to be the first purchaser from the producers - but at a price fixed by the state. Private businesses could make a profit only on the surplus of produce which the state did not want and many successful enterprises were simply taken over by the state.
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
Military Reforms
mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("
Peter the Great's military reforms massively modernised Russia’s Army and Navy. By his death in 1725, Russia's military was a force to be reckoned with. These reforms supplemented the reforms that were going on at a general domestic level.
The Russia army was both enlarged and made into a professional unit by Peter the Great. Peter had a very clear idea about the direction of his foreign policy and he needed a strong army to execute this. A strong army would also make his own position much stronger and free him from the threat of coups.
Before the rule of Peter the Great, the Russian army had been amateur. It was basically based on villagers going into battle to defend the Motherland, lead by village elders with no or little knowledge about military leadership. There were some professionals in the army but they were few and far between. The Streltsy and the Cossacks were professional units but they were officered by foreigners.
Peter the Great took the best parts of both systems and introduced a standing army in 1699. All soldiers received similar training so that the army had uniformity. The Streltsy was abolished. Peter the Great had hated it ever since it had backed a joint rule between Peter and Ivan. Two new elite Guards regiments were created - the Preobrazhenskii and the Semeovskii. These were officered by an elite. From 1705 on, both nobles and serfs could be conscripted for life long service in the army. By 1725, Russia had 130,000 men in the army. Discipline was savage but by the death of Peter, the army was up to European standards though untested in western Europe.
The navy was essentially Peter the Great’s creation. The navy was based on the moth of the River Don and then expanded to the Baltic Sea. As Russia lacked the necessary expertise, Peter the Great brought in foreign experts and by 1725, Russia had 48 ships of the line and 800 galleys. The officers in the navy were foreign but the crews were Russian.
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
Government Reforms
mytagid = Math.floor( Math.random() * 100 );document.write("
Peter the Great saw the government in the same light as the military and the general domestic situation - in need of major reform. However, by the time Peter died in 1725, there had been no lasting improvements.
Russia was essentially divided into three with regards to divisions of government: local, provincial and central.
Local government: In January 1699, towns were allowed to elect their own officials, collect revenue and stimulate trade. The gift of greater powers of local government was deliberately done in an effort to reduce the power of provincial governments. The work of local government was co-ordinated by the Ratusha based in Moscow. In 1702, towns were governed by an elective board which replaced the old system of elected sheriffs. By 1724, this was again changed so that towns could govern themselves through elected guilds of better off citizens. On paper these reforms were fine. But in reality the power of the local landlord and the provincial governor was immense and difficult to break.
Provincial government: In December 1707, Russia was divided into 8 guberniia. Each was lead by a Gubnator who had full power within his guberniia. Each guberniia was further divided into districts called uzeda. By November 1718, the number of guberniia had increased to 12 and each one was divided into 40 provintsiia which were then further divided into districts (uzedas). A Gubernator was directly answerable to Peter the Great.
Central government: To begin with, Peter was advised by a council and his orders were carried out by 40 departments in the Prikazy. Some had specific functions while others had vague responsibilities which could overspill into other departments making for inefficiency.
In 1711, Peter appointed a 9 man senate which evolved into a chief executive and the highest court of appeal. It was supervised by army officers on Peter's behalf until 1715 when an Inspector-General was appointed who in turn was replaced in 1722 with a Procurator-General who was the most powerful man in Russia after Peter.
The Prikazy was abolished in 1718 and replaced with a scheme borrowed from Sweden whereby 9 colleges were established with a specific function to cover the whole of Russia. Each college was run by 10 to 12 men and all their decisions were collective.
As early as 1711, an Oberfiscal was appointed aided by a staff of fiscals who had to be secret appointments as they had the task of checking the honesty and integrity of government officials.
All careers were open to the talented and educated - though, invariably, this favoured the side of the nobility. Promotion in the civil administration or the military in theory was on merit. There were 14 steps in the military's promotional ladder whereas the civil service had just 8. Those who reached the top step in both ladders were automatically granted hereditary noble status. However, the system did not operate as it should have as those at the top or nearing the top of the promotion ladder did nothing to encourage those mid way up the ladder in terms of developing their career as they were seen as a threat to those at the top.*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();
Thorn
Footballguy
Thanks. Only 3 wildcards can make things tight, but seemed like really good value and maybe better leader than Cromwell, we'll see.
Peter the Great had been on my radar for a long time too, but I didn't need a Leader and as has been observed, only 3 WCs makes that a valuable slot. Good pick, nonetheless.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Anyone heard from NCCommish in the past 2 weeks?
timschochet
Footballguy
rodg12
Footballguy
This would not end well.........He'll show up. But if he doesn't, I will be the religious judge!
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
He'll show up. But if he doesn't, I will be the religious judge!
13.08--Modest Mussorgsky-Composer
Team Pinko needed a Composer to write music for official Party Functions. I tried to find a good Soviet composer, but none quite fit the bill. And with Tschikovsky already being taken, I had to go for another Russian, albiet not a Communist. But he would have been if he'd had the chance.
Anyway, Mussorgsky is best know for his massive Russian nationalist opera Boris Gudenov and also composed the tone poem "A Night on Bald Mountain" a perenial that's played at Halloween. He was one of the Russian composers known as the Five, was an innovator of Russian music. He strove to achieve a uniquely Russian musical identity, often in deliberate defiance of the established conventions of Western music.
Many of his major works were inspired by Russian history, Russian folklore, and other nationalist themes, the orchestral tone poem Night on Bald Mountain, and the piano suite Pictures at an Exhibition. However, while Mussorgsky's music can be vivid and nationalistic, it does not always glorify the powerful and is sometimes antimilitaristic, such as in The Field-Marshal.
Most of you have heard some of his music, even if you don't know that you have.
Team Pinko needed a Composer to write music for official Party Functions. I tried to find a good Soviet composer, but none quite fit the bill. And with Tschikovsky already being taken, I had to go for another Russian, albiet not a Communist. But he would have been if he'd had the chance.
Anyway, Mussorgsky is best know for his massive Russian nationalist opera Boris Gudenov and also composed the tone poem "A Night on Bald Mountain" a perenial that's played at Halloween. He was one of the Russian composers known as the Five, was an innovator of Russian music. He strove to achieve a uniquely Russian musical identity, often in deliberate defiance of the established conventions of Western music.
Many of his major works were inspired by Russian history, Russian folklore, and other nationalist themes, the orchestral tone poem Night on Bald Mountain, and the piano suite Pictures at an Exhibition. However, while Mussorgsky's music can be vivid and nationalistic, it does not always glorify the powerful and is sometimes antimilitaristic, such as in The Field-Marshal.
Most of you have heard some of his music, even if you don't know that you have.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
For DougB:
13.9 - Charles Babbage, Inventor
Charles Babbage, FRS (26 December 1791 – 18 October 1871) was an English mathematician, philosopher, inventor and mechanical engineer who originated the concept of a programmable computer. Parts of his uncompleted mechanisms are on display in the London Science Museum. In 1991, a perfectly functioning difference engine was constructed from Babbage's original plans. Built to tolerances achievable in the 19th century, the success of the finished engine indicated that Babbage's machine would have worked. Nine years later, the Science Museum completed the printer Babbage had designed for the difference engine, an astonishingly complex device for the 19th century. Considered a "father of the computer" Babbage is credited with inventing the first mechanical computer that eventually led to more complex designs.
13.9 - Charles Babbage, Inventor
Charles Babbage, FRS (26 December 1791 – 18 October 1871) was an English mathematician, philosopher, inventor and mechanical engineer who originated the concept of a programmable computer. Parts of his uncompleted mechanisms are on display in the London Science Museum. In 1991, a perfectly functioning difference engine was constructed from Babbage's original plans. Built to tolerances achievable in the 19th century, the success of the finished engine indicated that Babbage's machine would have worked. Nine years later, the Science Museum completed the printer Babbage had designed for the difference engine, an astonishingly complex device for the 19th century. Considered a "father of the computer" Babbage is credited with inventing the first mechanical computer that eventually led to more complex designs.
rodg12
Footballguy
I was wondering when we'd start going down the road of computer inventors. It will be interesting to see how Babbage (and any other computer inventor guys) are judged. Mostly because there's so much debate about who actually built the first computer, let alone the first personal computer.
higgins
Footballguy
Taj Mahal -- as of now...
I found multiple sources claiming that Ustad Ahmad Lahauri was the chief architect for the Taj Mahal; however, I cannot disagree with Bobby Layne that there is some ambiguity, and that it is not a complete certainty that he was the chief architect.
I will be keeping him at that category, and possibly to my detriment be penalized as such. For the purposes of judging and "general knowledge", I will leave multiple links to the Taj Mahal pick with claims that Ustad Ahmad Lahauri was the chief architect, as well as the contrary.
That is all...
I found multiple sources claiming that Ustad Ahmad Lahauri was the chief architect for the Taj Mahal; however, I cannot disagree with Bobby Layne that there is some ambiguity, and that it is not a complete certainty that he was the chief architect.
I will be keeping him at that category, and possibly to my detriment be penalized as such. For the purposes of judging and "general knowledge", I will leave multiple links to the Taj Mahal pick with claims that Ustad Ahmad Lahauri was the chief architect, as well as the contrary.
That is all...
timschochet
Footballguy
I have to leave, will update late in the afternoon. Good luck to everyone!
mad sweeney
Footballguy
My last pick of da Gama was my second explorer pick in a row, though both he and Cousteau fit in multiple categories. One of the reasons I felt I had to take him was that he not only found a sea route from Atlantic Europe to the East but he had to fight his through the Moslem established areas on the East coast of Africa and Indian Sea. As Yankee pointed out, there was a heavy presence in the area, so I felt that was too good a value to pass up. But in doing so I passed on my performer only to be immediately inundated with conversations about opera and dooming me to know that Pavarotti would not make it back to me. However, he was one of two that I was set on having, now I can pull the trigger on my other team of musicians which may end up being the better pick of the two.
I don't think any of these musicians would rank exceptionally high as masters of their instruments however each excelled and used their instruments as an extension not only of themselves but of their felloows on stage with them. As a group they were unmatched masters of improvisation and "jam" skills. Constant touring (haven't found the link yet but I remember reading that for 20 years or so they were in the top 5 grossing concert tours EVERY year, citation forthcoming) provided the band with a truly unique following as veritable villages sprung up and follwed the band at each venue they stopped. Their logos are instantly recognizable as symbols of not just a band, but a multi generational cultural phenomenon. The list of musicians that have spent time touring with them reads like a Who's Who of music royalty. They also pioneered an analog preceeder of P2P file sharing by allowing their concerts to be taped and redistrubuted through fan networks, creating yet another phenomenon in music unmatched by any other.
Their shows were epic, their exploration of music was limitless, their impact was undeniable. Perhaps they have not sold as many albums as some artists but the rabidity of their fans and peers more than make up for it. No one has done what they did and no one ever will (though one band tried). The band continues on in different forms without their charismatic unofficial leader and though they are less for not having him, they still keep on trucking.
13.10 The Grateful Dead Performers
eta: I was going to add some links to deadhead sites (which I am not one of) but just got called into work so I'll do it later.
I don't think any of these musicians would rank exceptionally high as masters of their instruments however each excelled and used their instruments as an extension not only of themselves but of their felloows on stage with them. As a group they were unmatched masters of improvisation and "jam" skills. Constant touring (haven't found the link yet but I remember reading that for 20 years or so they were in the top 5 grossing concert tours EVERY year, citation forthcoming) provided the band with a truly unique following as veritable villages sprung up and follwed the band at each venue they stopped. Their logos are instantly recognizable as symbols of not just a band, but a multi generational cultural phenomenon. The list of musicians that have spent time touring with them reads like a Who's Who of music royalty. They also pioneered an analog preceeder of P2P file sharing by allowing their concerts to be taped and redistrubuted through fan networks, creating yet another phenomenon in music unmatched by any other.
Their shows were epic, their exploration of music was limitless, their impact was undeniable. Perhaps they have not sold as many albums as some artists but the rabidity of their fans and peers more than make up for it. No one has done what they did and no one ever will (though one band tried). The band continues on in different forms without their charismatic unofficial leader and though they are less for not having him, they still keep on trucking.
13.10 The Grateful Dead Performers
eta: I was going to add some links to deadhead sites (which I am not one of) but just got called into work so I'll do it later.
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rodg12
Footballguy
Good to know you're not a web site. I was worried there for a minute, trying to figure out how that'd work.....
FUBAR
Footballguy
Babbage - I thought about him even in the GAD before I realized he isn't American. But couldn't pull the trigger due to the ambiguity. Grateful Dead - nowhere near masters of the medium, but they are great performers. You don't find a more loyal fan base. Not in my next 5 in the category, but I do love their shows.Peter the Great - he's been on my list for what seems like the entire draft. I opted for Suleiman instead, but Peter is Great. My favorite:
Anyone, especially a leader of his magnitude, who comes to the aid of his workers, in icy water, despite health issues, is a man I can work for.
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Abrantes
Footballguy
I don't know how far he'll make it in the final ranking, but I love Mussorgsky. "Pictures At An Exhibition" was one of the very first classical pieces I learned how to play in high school, and it still retains all of its power and immediacy. "Il Vecchio Castello" is absolutely haunting, and "The Great Gate of Kiev" is EPIC. Great pick.DCThunder said:
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I';m going to disgree with you a bit there. They weren't the greatest album making rock band, though they were innovative and produced many legtimiately great recorded songs. Their medium was the live show, not recording. And in their medium they were unique masters.
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the moops
Footballguy
I agree that he isn't real well known, but Night on Bald Mountain is in Fantasia and often is in spooky kinds of movies and ELP did an entire album called "Pictures At an Exhibition" so his work isn't totally unknown.
Thorn
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Have you been to many Dead shows? I tend to think not.-edit- They have played in front of more people then any performer in history. They must have been doing something right
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Oh great!. If it isn't Larry arguing about Jesus, it's Deadheads defending the musical merits of Jerry and the boys.
the moops
Footballguy
Answer the question
Thorn
Footballguy
I have never been to a show because I find their music barely tolerable in any form. I could imagine going for the "show" factor, if I knew people going or something. I don't own a country album but I've seen Garth Brooks and Brooks & Dunn on that premise. I believe that their shows are an experience. But their music?Have you been to many Dead shows? I tend to think not.-edit- They have played in front of more people then any performer in history. They must have been doing something right
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the moops
Footballguy
Now that wasn't too hard, was it?I have never been to a show because I find their music barely tolerable in any form. I could imagine going for the "show" factor, if I knew people going or something. I don't own a country album but I've seen Garth Brooks and Brooks & Dunn on that premise. I believe that their shows are an experience. But their music? :XHave you been to many Dead shows? I tend to think not.-edit- They have played in front of more people then any performer in history. They must have been doing something right
Thorn
Footballguy
What did one deadhead say to the other when they ran out of drugs?
"What the #### is this awful #### we're listening to?"
the moops
Footballguy
Wow, never heard that one before.
You may not like their music, but only a fool would discount their ability and the amazing volume of shows and people they have played in front of.
They, without a doubt, deserve a place in this draft.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
Big Rocks is typing so I’ll give him a few.
If he takes the person I’m after I’ll be pissed however
If he takes the person I’m after I’ll be pissed however
FUBAR
Footballguy
Yep, and that place is 20th in the category.
Assuming you're drafting them on the premise of "performer" and not "musician", your argument holds water. They were not masters of any instrument, the singing isn't above average, and overall they are marginal musicians. They developed a following for their shows though, based largely on a drug counter-culture. I'm curious to see how well received they are outside the US. My guess is they have nowhere near the respect/acclaim/following of the Stones, Beatles, or many other bands as of yet undrafted. They're basically Madonna in group form.
Big Rocks
Footballguy
This pick is going against the grain a bit and I don't know how well this pick will be received, since she really didn't do anything that other teenagers wouldn't do and she wasn't looking for fame. But when she wrote and what she went through during her short life makes her famous, and her writings made her an instant celebrity after the war.
13.11 Anne Frank, wildcard (since I already have a celebrity)
An unorthodox pick, but there's no denying she has become a celebrity from her diaries. Her full bio is here
13.11 Anne Frank, wildcard (since I already have a celebrity)
An unorthodox pick, but there's no denying she has become a celebrity from her diaries. Her full bio is here
Abrantes
Footballguy
You don't think there's doubt about whether the Dead should be placed among the 20 greatest musical acts of all time?
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I didn't pick them because I like their music. I doubt they sniff my top 25 favorite bands. I picked them for their performances, their ability to improv and jam individually and as a unit, and their unique standing with their fans and peers.
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