World's Greatest Draft (3 Viewers)

[thatguy]

I wish I hadn't run out of American spaces to draft. I have a guy that MUST be drafted but I can't. I think that you should be allowed more than 5 Americans if they go into the Flex spots.

I'll draft him for you. I have only one American so far. PM please.

 

[mad sweeney]

I wish I hadn't run out of American spaces to draft. I have a guy that MUST be drafted but I can't.

I think that you should be allowed more than 5 Americans if they go into the Flex spots.

Celebrity?

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

I wish I hadn't run out of American spaces to draft. I have a guy that MUST be drafted but I can't. I think that you should be allowed more than 5 Americans if they go into the Flex spots.

I've only drafted 2 Americans (Mark Twain & Irving Berlin) and they were both spat on and laughed at, so no thanks.Hitchock doesn't really count for the purposes of this draft.Actually just checked and Berlin was born in Belarus so he's not American for this draft either, even though he moved when he was just 5.Any of your guys born overseas?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I wish I hadn't run out of American spaces to draft. I have a guy that MUST be drafted but I can't.

I think that you should be allowed more than 5 Americans if they go into the Flex spots.

Celebrity?

I have one inventor and one artist.

 

[mad sweeney]

I wish I hadn't run out of American spaces to draft. I have a guy that MUST be drafted but I can't.

I think that you should be allowed more than 5 Americans if they go into the Flex spots.

Celebrity?

I have one inventor and one artist.

I don't know what you mean by that, I was just making a swipe at the all inclusive celebrity category.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Marconi is a tremendous value this late in the draft.

Hmmm....OK.I kept thinking about him but it's hard to see him getting a high ranking.The invention and innovation came from others.His biggest accomplishment was commercial success.

 

[timschochet]

Mario Kart already had a leader (Ho Chi Minh) and an inventor (Dmitri Mendeleev). So I have moved them both to wildcard. If this is not what you want, Mario, please let me know.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Skipped Pick

NONE

17.02 Larry Boy 44 - Next Selection

17.03 Arsenal of Doom - On Deck

17.04 FUBAR - In the Hole

17.05 Acer FC

17.06 Yankee23fan

17.07 Thorn

17.08 DC Thunder/MisfitBlondes

17.09 Doug B

17.10 Mad Sweeney

17.11 Big Rocks

17.12 higgins

17.13 John Madden's Lunchbox

17.14 Usual21

17.15 thatguy

17.16 Andy Dufresne

17.17 Herbert The Hippo

17.18 BobbyLayne

17.19 Mister CIA

17.20 Abrantes

18.01 Abrantes

 

[timschochet]

Marconi is a tremendous value this late in the draft.

Hmmm....OK.I kept thinking about him but it's hard to see him getting a high ranking.The invention and innovation came from others.His biggest accomplishment was commercial success.

This raises the old and fascinating question: how much individual credit do we give the people famous for inventions? If the technology has been developed by several people, do we give credit to the guy who is the first to patent it, or become known? Is marketing an idea as important as developing the idea? I'm not sure you can discredit certain people like Marconi unless you are 100% sure of the individuality of other inventors. And I don't know that you can be. Did people in other countries than China create paper the way Tsai Lun did? Did anyone help Gutenberg create the printing press? Since there's no way to be sure of these answers, I think you have to look instead at really only one criteria in this category: the importance of what was created.Of course, I'm not the judge...

 

[BobbyLayne]

Marconi is a tremendous value this late in the draft.

Hmmm....OK.I kept thinking about him but it's hard to see him getting a high ranking.

The invention and innovation came from others.

His biggest accomplishment was commercial success.

This raises the old and fascinating question: how much individual credit do we give the people famous for inventions? If the technology has been developed by several people, do we give credit to the guy who is the first to patent it, or become known? Is marketing an idea as important as developing the idea? I'm not sure you can discredit certain people like Marconi unless you are 100% sure of the individuality of other inventors. And I don't know that you can be. Did people in other countries than China create paper the way Tsai Lun did? Did anyone help Gutenberg create the printing press? Since there's no way to be sure of these answers, I think you have to look instead at really only one criteria in this category: the importance of what was created.

Of course, I'm not the judge...

I think you bring up some excellent points.Let's use the light bulb as an example. If you wanted to be pedantic, you credit a number of people with coming up with incandescent light bulbs 30 years before Edison. But none of them worked very well, and they couldn't be mass produced cheaply. Edison came up with something that worked in the real world - and that's important.

re: Radio...fascinating development time line:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_radio

In 1896, Guglielmo Marconi was awarded a patent for radio with British Patent 12039, Improvements in Transmitting Electrical Impulses and Signals and in Apparatus There-for. This was the initial patent for the radio, though it used various earlier techniques of various other experimenters (primarily Tesla) and resembled the instrument demonstrated by others. During this time spark-gap wireless telegraphy was widely researched.

Radio or wireless transmission has to be a top ten invention. Pinpointing who gets the most credit is difficult. But here's the thing...other people demonstrated it could be done, but discarded it because they didn't see it as being useful.Give Marconi full credit for two things: he believed - before it was proved - that wireless was not limited to the curvature of the earth. Furthermore, he knew instinctively that it was a game changer.

He had the vision that others did not. That is part of what makes an inventor a genius, imaging the possibilities before others see it clearly.

 

[mad sweeney]

Marconi is a tremendous value this late in the draft.

Hmmm....OK.I kept thinking about him but it's hard to see him getting a high ranking.The invention and innovation came from others.His biggest accomplishment was commercial success.

This raises the old and fascinating question: how much individual credit do we give the people famous for inventions? If the technology has been developed by several people, do we give credit to the guy who is the first to patent it, or become known? Is marketing an idea as important as developing the idea? I'm not sure you can discredit certain people like Marconi unless you are 100% sure of the individuality of other inventors. And I don't know that you can be. Did people in other countries than China create paper the way Tsai Lun did? Did anyone help Gutenberg create the printing press? Since there's no way to be sure of these answers, I think you have to look instead at really only one criteria in this category: the importance of what was created.Of course, I'm not the judge...

Another aspect of inventor is whether or not having one of the greatest inventions ever makes the inventor one of the best ever. I can't fathom an argument that would supplant paper and the movable type printing press as the two greatest attributable inventions (wheel and fire come to mind as unattributable), but where does that rank the inventor himself? Watt, Edison, and Tesla (and a few others) all had large bodies of work that IMO would make them higher on the scale than an inventor with a sole contribution, though vastly important. Again, the judge's definition of what greatness is is going to vary from the idea that each of us has. I would put Gutenberg fifth behind Cai Lun and the three above going 1-3 in that order based on body of work (and in many ways incorporating the idea of marketing, patenting being discussed).

 

[larry_boy_44]

17.2 George Herman "Babe" Ruth

Maybe he isn't as much of a "world icon" as he is an "American icon", but he is still the greatest baseball player to ever play the game, a game that is slowly becoming the second most popular game on earth...

- led the league in homers 12 times

- led the league in slugging 13 times

- led the league in OPS 13 times

- led the league in run scored 8 times

- led the league in RBIs six times

- his number of times leading the leagues in homers, slugging, OPS, and runs scored are all records for most times leading league in that category

- only player to ever have 200 hits and 150 walks in a season

- finished his career with most walks, extra base hits, and home runs in baseball history

- career .342 batting average

- 94-46 career pitching record with a 2.28 ERA

what is insane about his stats is that they didn't play 162 games back then AND he pitched full time for 4 seasons and part time for another season. If he'd had played in the field and batted for another 5 seasons worth of game, he'd have 850 or more home runs and would STILL be the all-time leading home run hitter in baseball history...

When Ruth was playing he was hitting home runs on pace with entire TEAMS. You can talk about Pele's domination, or that cricket player's domination, but Babe Ruth's domination of baseball is on par with their's, IMO.

Plus when someone is great at something, you don't call them the "Pele of _____", no, you call them the "Babe Ruth of ________", why? Because the name "Babe Ruth" is synonymous with greatness, with being the best.

also, did you know that in an attempt to insult American soldiers in WWII, Japanese soldiers would yell "to hell with Babe Ruth" at them? That is how great the Sultan of Swat was.

 

[Abrantes]

Plus when someone is great at something, you don't call them the "Pele of _____", no, you call them the "Babe Ruth of ________", why? Because the name "Babe Ruth" is synonymous with greatness, with being the best.

And that has nothing to do with where you live, I assume. Babe Ruth is great and all, but you're way off on this statement.

 

[krista4]

Larry, you haven't chosen a novel/short story person yet, have you?

 

[BobbyLayne]

Plus when someone is great at something, you don't call them the "Pele of _____", no, you call them the "Babe Ruth of ________", why? Because the name "Babe Ruth" is synonymous with greatness, with being the best.

And that has nothing to do with where you live, I assume. Babe Ruth is great and all, but you're way off on this statement.

Hey buddy, it's called the World Series...oh...wait...umm...err...nevermind.

 

[timschochet]

Babe Ruth is, IMO, a terrible choice for the World Draft.

The fact that baseball is popular now worldwide has nothing whatsoever to do with Babe Ruth. Most people around the world have no idea who that is. We are not talking Ali or Jordan- there was NO worldwide recognition of the Babe. The only reason you made this choice, Larry, is because you are an American.

I'm surprised that with so many great international athletes available to be drafted, several of them who are American, that you would be so limited in your choice. I'm pretty sure that except for Bruce Lee (who IMO is not really an athlete) this is the worst choice in this category. But now that you've made it, I don't necessarily advise you moving it to wildcard, because it's an equally bad selection there. Sorry.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Larry, you haven't chosen a novel/short story person yet, have you?

no...I'm kind of torn on the category...I really wanted Tolkien, didn't think anyone else would pick him...

 

[mad sweeney]

Plus when someone is great at something, you don't call them the "Pele of _____", no, you call them the "Babe Ruth of ________", why? Because the name "Babe Ruth" is synonymous with greatness, with being the best.

And that has nothing to do with where you live, I assume. Babe Ruth is great and all, but you're way off on this statement.

Hmmm Wayne Gretzky was the Babe Ruth of hockey...Pele was the Babe Ruth of Soccer...Ali was the Babe Ruth of boxing...Bob Barker was the Babe Ruth of game shows...I dunno, none of those really seem to fit.Countdown to LarryBoy Overprotective Rant with an over/under on all caps words at 6.

 

[mad sweeney]

Babe Ruth is, IMO, a terrible choice for the World Draft. The fact that baseball is popular now worldwide has nothing whatsoever to do with Babe Ruth. Most people around the world have no idea who that is. We are not talking Ali or Jordan- there was NO worldwide recognition of the Babe. The only reason you made this choice, Larry, is because you are an American. I'm surprised that with so many great international athletes available to be drafted, several of them who are American, that you would be so limited in your choice. I'm pretty sure that except for Bruce Lee (who IMO is not really an athlete) this is the worst choice in this category. But now that you've made it, I don't necessarily advise you moving it to wildcard, because it's an equally bad selection there. Sorry.

Maybe you should've warned him about this before the draft started.Oh, wait...

 

[larry_boy_44]

Babe Ruth is, IMO, a terrible choice for the World Draft. The fact that baseball is popular now worldwide has nothing whatsoever to do with Babe Ruth. Most people around the world have no idea who that is. We are not talking Ali or Jordan- there was NO worldwide recognition of the Babe. The only reason you made this choice, Larry, is because you are an American. I'm surprised that with so many great international athletes available to be drafted, several of them who are American, that you would be so limited in your choice. I'm pretty sure that except for Bruce Lee (who IMO is not really an athlete) this is the worst choice in this category. But now that you've made it, I don't necessarily advise you moving it to wildcard, because it's an equally bad selection there. Sorry.

you are massively underestimating how well known Babe Ruth is...

 

[krista4]

Larry, you haven't chosen a novel/short story person yet, have you?

no...I'm kind of torn on the category...I really wanted Tolkien, didn't think anyone else would pick him...

Well, you did a great job in picking Homer, so I'll be interested to see whom you select. Still some great choices out there.

 

[timschochet]

Babe Ruth is, IMO, a terrible choice for the World Draft. The fact that baseball is popular now worldwide has nothing whatsoever to do with Babe Ruth. Most people around the world have no idea who that is. We are not talking Ali or Jordan- there was NO worldwide recognition of the Babe. The only reason you made this choice, Larry, is because you are an American. I'm surprised that with so many great international athletes available to be drafted, several of them who are American, that you would be so limited in your choice. I'm pretty sure that except for Bruce Lee (who IMO is not really an athlete) this is the worst choice in this category. But now that you've made it, I don't necessarily advise you moving it to wildcard, because it's an equally bad selection there. Sorry.

Maybe you should've warned him about this before the draft started.Oh, wait...

LOL- If I recall correctly, in the World's Greatest signup thread, I even used Babe Ruth as an example of whom NOT to draft.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Babe Ruth is, IMO, a terrible choice for the World Draft. The fact that baseball is popular now worldwide has nothing whatsoever to do with Babe Ruth. Most people around the world have no idea who that is. We are not talking Ali or Jordan- there was NO worldwide recognition of the Babe. The only reason you made this choice, Larry, is because you are an American. I'm surprised that with so many great international athletes available to be drafted, several of them who are American, that you would be so limited in your choice. I'm pretty sure that except for Bruce Lee (who IMO is not really an athlete) this is the worst choice in this category. But now that you've made it, I don't necessarily advise you moving it to wildcard, because it's an equally bad selection there. Sorry.

Maybe you should've warned him about this before the draft started.Oh, wait...

LOL- If I recall correctly, in the World's Greatest signup thread, I even used Babe Ruth as an example of whom NOT to draft.

and it was just as absurd then to suggest that the greatest player ever to play one of the most popular sports on earth (and its not even close) is not worthy of being one of the top 20 greatest world athletes then as it is now when you repeat it...

 

[timschochet]

Babe Ruth is, IMO, a terrible choice for the World Draft. The fact that baseball is popular now worldwide has nothing whatsoever to do with Babe Ruth. Most people around the world have no idea who that is. We are not talking Ali or Jordan- there was NO worldwide recognition of the Babe. The only reason you made this choice, Larry, is because you are an American. I'm surprised that with so many great international athletes available to be drafted, several of them who are American, that you would be so limited in your choice. I'm pretty sure that except for Bruce Lee (who IMO is not really an athlete) this is the worst choice in this category. But now that you've made it, I don't necessarily advise you moving it to wildcard, because it's an equally bad selection there. Sorry.

you are massively underestimating how well known Babe Ruth is...

Do you have any evidence to support this? If you do, perhaps I'll change my mind. I'm always open to new facts. What evidence do you have that Babe Ruth was an athlete of international repute?

 

[timschochet]

Babe Ruth is, IMO, a terrible choice for the World Draft. The fact that baseball is popular now worldwide has nothing whatsoever to do with Babe Ruth. Most people around the world have no idea who that is. We are not talking Ali or Jordan- there was NO worldwide recognition of the Babe. The only reason you made this choice, Larry, is because you are an American. I'm surprised that with so many great international athletes available to be drafted, several of them who are American, that you would be so limited in your choice. I'm pretty sure that except for Bruce Lee (who IMO is not really an athlete) this is the worst choice in this category. But now that you've made it, I don't necessarily advise you moving it to wildcard, because it's an equally bad selection there. Sorry.

Maybe you should've warned him about this before the draft started.Oh, wait...

LOL- If I recall correctly, in the World's Greatest signup thread, I even used Babe Ruth as an example of whom NOT to draft.

and it was just as absurd then to suggest that the greatest player ever to play one of the most popular sports on earth (and its not even close) is not worthy of being one of the top 20 greatest world athletes then as it is now when you repeat it...

You're still missing the point, IMO. Michael Jordan is not the greatest player to ever play basketball. But Jordan was a fine pick for this draft, because he had such great international recognition. The guy who I think was the best ever was famous only in America, and like Ruth, he played when the game was still relatively a young sport. It would be foolish to take that basketball player in this draft, same as Ruth.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Joe Louis - Sports Figure

ETA: Louis was, of course, an American hero; however, his reputation as Heavyweight Champion during his life and significance of his matches with Schmeling are world renowned. At the time (and for most of the 20th century) boxing could be counted as perhaps the most popular of the true global sports.

'Brown Bomber' was a hero to all

By Larry Schwartz

Special to ESPN.com

The son of an Alabama sharecropper, great grandson of a slave, great great grandson of a white slave owner became the first African-American to achieve lasting fame and popularity in the 20th century.

In a time when his people were still subject to lynchings, discrimination and oppression, when the military was segregated and African-Americans weren't permitted to play Major League Baseball, Joe Louis was the first African-American to achieve hero worship that was previously reserved for whites only. When he started boxing in the 1930s, there were no African-Americans in positions of public prominence, none who commanded attention from whites.

"What my father did was enable white America to think of him as an American, not as a black," said his son, Joe Louis Jr. "By winning, he became white America's first black hero."

Louis was heavyweight champion of the world in an era when the heavyweight champion was, in the minds of many, the greatest man in the world. Jack Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight champ, wasn't popular with whites. Louis, on the other hand, converted all into his corner. When "The Brown Bomber" avenged his loss to Germany's Max Schmeling -- viewed as a Nazi symbol -- the entire country celebrated, not just African-Americans.

Louis' war-time patriotism in a racially divided country made him a symbol of national unity and purpose. Twice he donated his purse to military relief funds. He endeared himself even more to the American public when he said the U.S. would win World War II "because we're on God's side."

While some accused Louis of being an Uncle Tom, others realized it wasn't in his training or character to be militant. His uncommon sense of dignity, exemplified by his refusal to be pictured with a slice of watermelon, increased his popularity.

When some called Louis "a credit to his race," sportswriter Jimmy Cannon responded, "Yes, Louis is a credit to his race -- the human race."

He also was a credit to boxing, which often contributes to the worst in the human race. His championship reign, from 1937 until he retired in 1949, is the longest of any heavyweight. With his powerful left jab, his destructive two-fisted attack that he released with accuracy at short range, and his capacity for finishing a wounded opponent, the 6-foot-1½ fighter defeated all 25 of his challengers, another record.

Louis also was a winner with women. Though married four times, including twice to his first wife, he discreetly enjoyed the company of both African-American and white women, including Lena Horne, Sonja Henie and Lana Turner.

He was born Joseph Louis Barrow on May 13, 1914, in a shack in the cotton-field country near Lafayette, Ala. Besides being African-American, he also was part Indian and part white. His father was committed to a state hospital for the mentally ill before he was 2.

After Louis' mother heard her husband had died (he hadn't, though), she remarried. The children slept three to a bed in Alabama before the family moved to Detroit in the 1920s. Joe was learning cabinet-making in a vocational school and taking violin lessons when he turned to boxing at the request of a schoolmate.

Fighting under the name Joe Louis, so his mother wouldn't find out, he won 50 of 54 amateur bouts and gained the attention of John Roxborough, king of the numbers rackets in Detroit's African-American neighborhoods. Roxborough and Julian Black, a speakeasy owner who also ran numbers, convinced Louis to turn pro in 1934, and they became his managers.

To shape the fighter's image, Roxborough publicized seven commandments, which would be inoffensive to white Americans. They included: Never be photographed with a white woman, never gloat over a fallen (read white) opponent, never engage in fixed fights, and live and fight clean.

Louis won his first 27 fights, 23 by knockout, with his most impressive victories being a sixth-round TKO of Primo Carnera and a fourth-round KO of Max Baer, both former heavyweight champions. His undefeated streak ended on June 19, 1936 when Schmeling detected a ***** in Louis' armor: Because Louis carried his left hand low, he was vulnerable to a counter right.

In the fourth round, Schmeling's overhand right dropped Louis, who never recovered, though he lasted until the 12th before two rights by Schmeling ended the fight. In the dressing room, Louis cried.

His road to the title had merely taken a detour. On June 22, 1937, he became the first African-American champ since Johnson when he dethroned James Braddock, knocking out "The Cinderella Man" in the eighth round. "For one night, in all the darktowns of America, the black man was king," wrote Alistair Cooke.

Louis became a symbol of African-American power in a time when they felt powerless. "Every Negro boy old enough to walk wanted to be the next Brown Bomber," said Malcolm X, then the leader of the militant Black Muslims.

Exactly one year later, Louis exacted his revenge on Schmeling. The fight was for more than the heavyweight championship, more than two individuals competing. It was built into a battle of two ideologies.

In one corner was Schmeling, representing Hitler (though Schmeling wasn't a Nazi) and everything fascism stood for. In the other corner was Louis, representing the U.S. and everything democracy meant. Louis was invited to the White House, where President Franklin Roosevelt felt the champ's biceps. "Joe, we need muscles like yours to beat Germany," he said.

There were reports of messages to Schmeling from Hitler warning him that he had better win for the glory of the Third Reich. Hitler hailed him as a paragon of Teutonic manhood and telephoned him personally before he left the dressing room.

Schmeling wasn't gone from the room long. Before some 70,000 fans at Yankee Stadium, Louis pulverized the reluctant Aryan figurehead, knocking him to the canvas three times. Two years of waiting ended for Louis after 124 seconds, with Schmeling lying broken on the canvas. Louis had crossed the line from champion to idol as Americans of all color and ancestry celebrated.

He went through a "Bum of the Month" club until he met former light-heavyweight champ Billy Conn on June 18, 1941. It appeared as if Louis was about to lose his title after 12 rounds, as he trailed by three and two rounds on two officials' scorecards. But Conn ignored his corner's instruction to box with caution, and the result was Louis knocking him out with two seconds left in the 13th round.

Louis enlisted in the Army in 1942 and fought close to 100 exhibitions before some two million servicemen. After the war, he knocked out Conn again ("He can run, but he can't hide") and won three other fights, including two with Jersey Joe Walcott, before abdicating his title.

However, because he needed money to pay back taxes, he returned. After not fighting for two years, he lost a one-sided decision to his successor as champ, Ezzard Charles, in 1950 and retired for good when Rocky Marciano knocked him out in the eighth round in 1951.

Louis' fights earned him close to $5 million, but the money went like three-minute rounds, mostly due to his extravagances and generosity. The IRS, conveniently forgetting Louis' generosity during the war, demanded a reported $1.2 million in back taxes, interest and penalties, and he suffered the humiliation of competing as a pro wrestler to help pay his debts. Following several stays in hospitals for cocaine addiction and paranoia, he became an "official greeter" at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas.

Louis spent his last four years in a wheelchair before dying of a heart attack at 66 on April 12, 1981 in Las Vegas. He was buried in Arlington National Cemetery at the request of President xxxxxxxxxx. In death, like in life, he was a hero.

 

[timschochet]

Unlike the last pick, Joe Louis is an excellent choice. Not only did he enjoy worldwide recognition, he was actually representative of the idealism of the United States, especially in his battles against Max Schmeling. It is true that, during Louis' lifetime, boxing was a sport dominated by American athletes, but one that was still followed avidly all over the globe. Great, great pick.

 

[flysack]

Joe Louis - Sports Figure

'Brown Bomber' was a hero to all

By Larry Schwartz

Special to ESPN.com

The son of an Alabama sharecropper, great grandson of a slave, great great grandson of a white slave owner became the first African-American to achieve lasting fame and popularity in the 20th century.

In a time when his people were still subject to lynchings, discrimination and oppression, when the military was segregated and African-Americans weren't permitted to play Major League Baseball, Joe Louis was the first African-American to achieve hero worship that was previously reserved for whites only. When he started boxing in the 1930s, there were no African-Americans in positions of public prominence, none who commanded attention from whites.

"What my father did was enable white America to think of him as an American, not as a black," said his son, Joe Louis Jr. "By winning, he became white America's first black hero."

Louis was heavyweight champion of the world in an era when the heavyweight champion was, in the minds of many, the greatest man in the world. Jack Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight champ, wasn't popular with whites. Louis, on the other hand, converted all into his corner. When "The Brown Bomber" avenged his loss to Germany's Max Schmeling -- viewed as a Nazi symbol -- the entire country celebrated, not just African-Americans.

Louis' war-time patriotism in a racially divided country made him a symbol of national unity and purpose. Twice he donated his purse to military relief funds. He endeared himself even more to the American public when he said the U.S. would win World War II "because we're on God's side."

While some accused Louis of being an Uncle Tom, others realized it wasn't in his training or character to be militant. His uncommon sense of dignity, exemplified by his refusal to be pictured with a slice of watermelon, increased his popularity.

When some called Louis "a credit to his race," sportswriter Jimmy Cannon responded, "Yes, Louis is a credit to his race -- the human race."

He also was a credit to boxing, which often contributes to the worst in the human race. His championship reign, from 1937 until he retired in 1949, is the longest of any heavyweight. With his powerful left jab, his destructive two-fisted attack that he released with accuracy at short range, and his capacity for finishing a wounded opponent, the 6-foot-1½ fighter defeated all 25 of his challengers, another record.

Louis also was a winner with women. Though married four times, including twice to his first wife, he discreetly enjoyed the company of both African-American and white women, including Lena Horne, Sonja Henie and Lana Turner.

He was born Joseph Louis Barrow on May 13, 1914, in a shack in the cotton-field country near Lafayette, Ala. Besides being African-American, he also was part Indian and part white. His father was committed to a state hospital for the mentally ill before he was 2.

After Louis' mother heard her husband had died (he hadn't, though), she remarried. The children slept three to a bed in Alabama before the family moved to Detroit in the 1920s. Joe was learning cabinet-making in a vocational school and taking violin lessons when he turned to boxing at the request of a schoolmate.

Fighting under the name Joe Louis, so his mother wouldn't find out, he won 50 of 54 amateur bouts and gained the attention of John Roxborough, king of the numbers rackets in Detroit's African-American neighborhoods. Roxborough and Julian Black, a speakeasy owner who also ran numbers, convinced Louis to turn pro in 1934, and they became his managers.

To shape the fighter's image, Roxborough publicized seven commandments, which would be inoffensive to white Americans. They included: Never be photographed with a white woman, never gloat over a fallen (read white) opponent, never engage in fixed fights, and live and fight clean.

Louis won his first 27 fights, 23 by knockout, with his most impressive victories being a sixth-round TKO of Primo Carnera and a fourth-round KO of Max Baer, both former heavyweight champions. His undefeated streak ended on June 19, 1936 when Schmeling detected a ***** in Louis' armor: Because Louis carried his left hand low, he was vulnerable to a counter right.

In the fourth round, Schmeling's overhand right dropped Louis, who never recovered, though he lasted until the 12th before two rights by Schmeling ended the fight. In the dressing room, Louis cried.

His road to the title had merely taken a detour. On June 22, 1937, he became the first African-American champ since Johnson when he dethroned James Braddock, knocking out "The Cinderella Man" in the eighth round. "For one night, in all the darktowns of America, the black man was king," wrote Alistair Cooke.

Louis became a symbol of African-American power in a time when they felt powerless. "Every Negro boy old enough to walk wanted to be the next Brown Bomber," said Malcolm X, then the leader of the militant Black Muslims.

Exactly one year later, Louis exacted his revenge on Schmeling. The fight was for more than the heavyweight championship, more than two individuals competing. It was built into a battle of two ideologies.

In one corner was Schmeling, representing Hitler (though Schmeling wasn't a Nazi) and everything fascism stood for. In the other corner was Louis, representing the U.S. and everything democracy meant. Louis was invited to the White House, where President Franklin Roosevelt felt the champ's biceps. "Joe, we need muscles like yours to beat Germany," he said.

There were reports of messages to Schmeling from Hitler warning him that he had better win for the glory of the Third Reich. Hitler hailed him as a paragon of Teutonic manhood and telephoned him personally before he left the dressing room.

Schmeling wasn't gone from the room long. Before some 70,000 fans at Yankee Stadium, Louis pulverized the reluctant Aryan figurehead, knocking him to the canvas three times. Two years of waiting ended for Louis after 124 seconds, with Schmeling lying broken on the canvas. Louis had crossed the line from champion to idol as Americans of all color and ancestry celebrated.

He went through a "Bum of the Month" club until he met former light-heavyweight champ Billy Conn on June 18, 1941. It appeared as if Louis was about to lose his title after 12 rounds, as he trailed by three and two rounds on two officials' scorecards. But Conn ignored his corner's instruction to box with caution, and the result was Louis knocking him out with two seconds left in the 13th round.

Louis enlisted in the Army in 1942 and fought close to 100 exhibitions before some two million servicemen. After the war, he knocked out Conn again ("He can run, but he can't hide") and won three other fights, including two with Jersey Joe Walcott, before abdicating his title.

However, because he needed money to pay back taxes, he returned. After not fighting for two years, he lost a one-sided decision to his successor as champ, Ezzard Charles, in 1950 and retired for good when Rocky Marciano knocked him out in the eighth round in 1951.

Louis' fights earned him close to $5 million, but the money went like three-minute rounds, mostly due to his extravagances and generosity. The IRS, conveniently forgetting Louis' generosity during the war, demanded a reported $1.2 million in back taxes, interest and penalties, and he suffered the humiliation of competing as a pro wrestler to help pay his debts. Following several stays in hospitals for cocaine addiction and paranoia, he became an "official greeter" at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas.

Louis spent his last four years in a wheelchair before dying of a heart attack at 66 on April 12, 1981 in Las Vegas. He was buried in Arlington National Cemetery at the request of President xxxxxxxxxx. In death, like in life, he was a hero.

Your info is wrong. Joe Lewis lived until he was 137 years old.

 

[Mario Kart]

Update of last two picks.

I know this person may be looked at as not one of the greatest leaders however he did help usher in a new era of history. He was in the leadership position of the country that would essentially become the number one in the 20th century. Out from the ashes rose one country to become the model for the next 70+ years and that model is still going today. While some may not agree with his policies on the home front, although many of those policies are but a shadow of themselves compared to their original purpose, he was the leader of a great nation only to become a greater nation. When all others look for hope, there stare at the United States. When many were looking for hope after WWII they looked at the United States. Who allowed that hope to come to the forefront? The man I am going to select. Who helped out Europe in WWII? Who helped out the Pacific in WWII? Not sure if the war would have turned out the same way had others been in a leadership position as the President. But, he was. Mario Kart selects:

16.20 - Franklin Delano Roosevelt - Leader

Roosevelt has been consistently ranked as one of the greatest U.S. presidents in historical rankings[103]

A 1999 survey by C-SPAN found that by a wide margin academic historians consider and Roosevelt the three greatest presidents, consistent with other surveys.[104] Roosevelt is the sixth most admired person from the 20th century by US citizens, according to Gallup.[105]

Both during and after his terms, critics of Roosevelt questioned not only his policies and positions, but also the consolidation of power that occurred because of his lengthy tenure as president, his service during two major crises, and his enormous popularity. The rapid expansion of government programs that occurred during Roosevelt's term redefined the role of the government in the United States, and Roosevelt's advocacy of government social programs was instrumental in redefining liberalism for coming generations.[106]

Roosevelt firmly established the United States' leadership role on the world stage, with pronouncements such as his Four Freedoms speech, forming a basis for the active role of the United States in the war and beyond.

============= Round 17 =============

This inventor made something that every country has and even remote villages in Africa have one, which constitutes an effect on the world. For many years the radio was the only way news traveled, other than mail. It acted as a news source, entertainment, social gathering, scare tactic, propaganda machine, and many other uses. There are few inventions that have affected the globe such as the radio and more than likely everyone in the world has at least seen one. The inventor that is credited with the invention of the radio is Mario Kart's next selection and that is:

17.01 - Guglielmo Marconi - Inventor

During his early years, Marconi had an interest in science and electricity. One of the scientific developments during this era came from Heinrich Hertz, who, beginning in 1888, demonstrated that one could produce and detect electromagnetic radiation—now generally known as "radio waves", at the time more commonly called "Hertzian waves" or "aetheric waves". Hertz's death in 1894 brought published reviews of his earlier discoveries, and a renewed interest on the part of Marconi.

This is my updated roster, as I have been updating it with every couple of picks I have made.

Mario Kart

Leaders - Franklin Delano Roosevelt (post #5479) (16.20)

Military - Sun Tzu (post #45) (1.01)

Scientist - Dmitri Mendeleev (post #4660) (13.01)

Inventor - Guglielmo Marconi (post #5479) (17.01)

Discoverer/Explorer - Giovanni da Pian del Carpine (post #1281) (2.20)

Humanitarian/Saint/Martyr - Henry Dunant (post #5205) (15.01)

Novelist/Short stories - J. R. R. Tolkien (post #3003)(6.20)

Playwrights/Poets - Geoffrey Chaucer (post #1295) (3.01)

Villain - Ho Chi Minh (post #3916) (10.20)

Athlete -

Composer - Antonio Vivaldi (post #3403) (9.01)

Musicians/Performers -

Painter - Claude Monet (post #2236) (4.20)

Artist/Non-Painter - Auguste Rodin (post #2248) (5.01)

Philosopher - Jean Piaget (post #4660) (12.20)

Religious Figure - Pope Gregory XIII (post #3371) (8.20)

Celebrity -

Intellectual - John Maynard Keynes (post #3003) (7.01)

Rebel - Guy Fawkes (post #5205) (14.20)

Wildcards - Gavrilo Princip (post #3916) (11.01)

Wildcards -

Wildcards -

 

[timschochet]

My dad actually met Louis at Caesar's Palace and got to shake his hand, back in the day. He told me Louis was old, broken down and looked it, but it was still a great thrill.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Joe Louis - Sports Figure

Your info is wrong. Joe Lewis lived until he was 137 years old.

 

[mad sweeney]

Update of last two picks.

============= Round 17 =============

This inventor made something that every country has and even remote villages in Africa have one, which constitutes an effect on the world. For many years the radio was the only way news traveled, other than mail. It acted as a news source, entertainment, social gathering, scare tactic, propaganda machine, and many other uses. There are few inventions that have affected the globe such as the radio and more than likely everyone in the world has at least seen one. The inventor that is credited with the invention of the radio is Mario Kart's next selection and that is:

17.01 - Guglielmo Marconi - Inventor

During his early years, Marconi had an interest in science and electricity. One of the scientific developments during this era came from Heinrich Hertz, who, beginning in 1888, demonstrated that one could produce and detect electromagnetic radiation—now generally known as "radio waves", at the time more commonly called "Hertzian waves" or "aetheric waves". Hertz's death in 1894 brought published reviews of his earlier discoveries, and a renewed interest on the part of Marconi.

Where does the telegraph fit in here?

 

[the moops]

Michael Jordan is not the greatest player to ever play basketball

 

[timschochet]

Michael Jordan is not the greatest player to ever play basketball

Yeah, you Celtic fans will never respect whom I talking about, despite the fact that he was far and away better than your greatest player ever. If the person I'm speaking of had been a Celtic, he would have had all those rings.

 

[BobbyLayne]

My dad actually met Louis at Caesar's Palace and got to shake his hand, back in the day. He told me Louis was old, broken down and looked it, but it was still a great thrill.

Yup, my parents met him at Caesar's Palace, too. I remember listening to my dad tell some friends about it, and he was mad that Joe was being exploited. His buddy said "Well, they're looking out for him, they gave him an easy job" My dad replied "To hell with that...they ought to pay just for being Joe Louis and living in their hotel."

 

[larry_boy_44]

Babe Ruth is, IMO, a terrible choice for the World Draft.

The fact that baseball is popular now worldwide has nothing whatsoever to do with Babe Ruth. Most people around the world have no idea who that is. We are not talking Ali or Jordan- there was NO worldwide recognition of the Babe. The only reason you made this choice, Larry, is because you are an American.

I'm surprised that with so many great international athletes available to be drafted, several of them who are American, that you would be so limited in your choice. I'm pretty sure that except for Bruce Lee (who IMO is not really an athlete) this is the worst choice in this category. But now that you've made it, I don't necessarily advise you moving it to wildcard, because it's an equally bad selection there. Sorry.

you are massively underestimating how well known Babe Ruth is...

Do you have any evidence to support this? If you do, perhaps I'll change my mind. I'm always open to new facts. What evidence do you have that Babe Ruth was an athlete of international repute?

The Japanese were so impressed by him after a tour of MLB players through Japan in the mid-1930s that they would yell insults about him at the American troops during WWII...The "Babe Ruth League", international baseball/softball little league program: http://www.baberuthleague.org/side-indexes...inquiry-kit.pdf (yes, I realize its "only" in all 50 states and 6 other countries, although: "Today, Babe Ruth League, Inc. ranks as the premier amateur baseball and softball program in the world. From that first 10-team league in Hamilton Township, New Jersey, it has grown to a combined size of over one million players on over 56,000 teams in more that 9,000 leagues." that's a LOT of kids and teams and leagues)

quotes from http://www.baberuth.com/quotes2.html:

"To say 'Babe Ruth' is to say 'Baseball'."

-- ex A.L. President Will Harridge

"Sometimes I still can't believe what I saw," said Harry Hooper, a Boston teammate of Ruth's. "This 19-year-old kid, crude, poorly educated, only lightly brushed by the social veneer we call civilization, gradually transformed into the idol of American youth and the symbol of baseball the world over - a man loved by more people and with an intensity of feeling that perhaps has never been equaled before or since."

"To understand him you had to understand this: he wasn't human."

-- teammate Joe Dugan

"He came up again in the ninth. I was a little mad. I told my catcher, Tommy Padden, he was not good enough to hit my fastball. I came through with a fastball for strike one. I missed with the second. The next pitch I nodded to Tommy. I was going to throw the ball past Mr. Ruth. It was on the outside corner. As he went around third, Ruth gave me the hand sign meaning 'to hell with you.' He was better than me. He was the best that ever lived. That big joker hit it clear out of the park for his third home run of the game. It was the longest homer I'd ever seen in baseball."

-- Guy Bush of the Pittsburgh Pirates on giving up Ruth's last home run (it was the first to clear the rightfield grandstand at Forbes Field and some estimated the distance at 600 feet.) Quoted in Bush's "Sporting News" obituary after his death.

"Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star."

-- Tris Speaker on Babe Ruth's future, 1921

"He wasn't a baseball player. He was a worldwide celebrity, an international star, the likes of which baseball has never seen since."

-- broadcaster Ernie Harwell

modern travel guide to a City in Japan that tells the story of Babe Ruth hitting a home run there in 1934: http://www.city.kitakyushu.jp/pcp_portal/c...NTENTS_ID=15743just a few examples of things said about him and how he is known internationally... I'm, sure there is more...

 

[BobbyLayne]

Good work, LB. Seriously. For once you didn't just repeat the same thing over and over.

BTW, in the fall of 1946, the Babe was diagnosed with throat cancer, and spent 3 months in the hospital. It was published that he would likely not survive his illness.

April 27, 1947, was declared Babe Ruth day. Not just MLB, but every league, professional or amateur, at every level...and in every country baseball was played.

 

[timschochet]

It's certainly interesting Larry, but not enough in itself. Japan is an unusual example, a country that has been into baseball for much longer than the rest of the world. You have to provide much more than this to make a good argument that he is one of the top 20 greatest world athletes ever. Far too many great choices on this list to give him that recognition.

But let's put it this way: outside of Bruce Lee, of the other athletes already taken in this draft, which ones would you rank below Babe Ruth?

 

[larry_boy_44]

It's certainly interesting Larry, but not enough in itself. Japan is an unusual example, a country that has been into baseball for much longer than the rest of the world. You have to provide much more than this to make a good argument that he is one of the top 20 greatest world athletes ever. Far too many great choices on this list to give him that recognition.But let's put it this way: outside of Bruce Lee, of the other athletes already taken in this draft, which ones would you rank below Babe Ruth?

everyone except MAYBE Pele, Gretzky, Jordan, Ali, & Louis....

 

[mad sweeney]

Babe Ruth is, IMO, a terrible choice for the World Draft.

The fact that baseball is popular now worldwide has nothing whatsoever to do with Babe Ruth. Most people around the world have no idea who that is. We are not talking Ali or Jordan- there was NO worldwide recognition of the Babe. The only reason you made this choice, Larry, is because you are an American.

I'm surprised that with so many great international athletes available to be drafted, several of them who are American, that you would be so limited in your choice. I'm pretty sure that except for Bruce Lee (who IMO is not really an athlete) this is the worst choice in this category. But now that you've made it, I don't necessarily advise you moving it to wildcard, because it's an equally bad selection there. Sorry.

you are massively underestimating how well known Babe Ruth is...

Do you have any evidence to support this? If you do, perhaps I'll change my mind. I'm always open to new facts. What evidence do you have that Babe Ruth was an athlete of international repute?

The Japanese were so impressed by him after a tour of MLB players through Japan in the mid-1930s that they would yell insults about him at the American troops during WWII...The "Babe Ruth League", international baseball/softball little league program: http://www.baberuthleague.org/side-indexes...inquiry-kit.pdf (yes, I realize its "only" in all 50 states and 6 other countries, although: "Today, Babe Ruth League, Inc. ranks as the premier amateur baseball and softball program in the world. From that first 10-team league in Hamilton Township, New Jersey, it has grown to a combined size of over one million players on over 56,000 teams in more that 9,000 leagues." that's a LOT of kids and teams and leagues)

quotes from http://www.baberuth.com/quotes2.html:

"To say 'Babe Ruth' is to say 'Baseball'."

-- ex A.L. President Will Harridge

"Sometimes I still can't believe what I saw," said Harry Hooper, a Boston teammate of Ruth's. "This 19-year-old kid, crude, poorly educated, only lightly brushed by the social veneer we call civilization, gradually transformed into the idol of American youth and the symbol of baseball the world over - a man loved by more people and with an intensity of feeling that perhaps has never been equaled before or since."

"To understand him you had to understand this: he wasn't human."

-- teammate Joe Dugan

"He came up again in the ninth. I was a little mad. I told my catcher, Tommy Padden, he was not good enough to hit my fastball. I came through with a fastball for strike one. I missed with the second. The next pitch I nodded to Tommy. I was going to throw the ball past Mr. Ruth. It was on the outside corner. As he went around third, Ruth gave me the hand sign meaning 'to hell with you.' He was better than me. He was the best that ever lived. That big joker hit it clear out of the park for his third home run of the game. It was the longest homer I'd ever seen in baseball."

-- Guy Bush of the Pittsburgh Pirates on giving up Ruth's last home run (it was the first to clear the rightfield grandstand at Forbes Field and some estimated the distance at 600 feet.) Quoted in Bush's "Sporting News" obituary after his death.

"Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star."

-- Tris Speaker on Babe Ruth's future, 1921

"He wasn't a baseball player. He was a worldwide celebrity, an international star, the likes of which baseball has never seen since."

-- broadcaster Ernie Harwell

modern travel guide to a City in Japan that tells the story of Babe Ruth hitting a home run there in 1934: http://www.city.kitakyushu.jp/pcp_portal/c...NTENTS_ID=15743just a few examples of things said about him and how he is known internationally... I'm, sure there is more...

I'm trying to figure out what all those quotes have to do with his international status, except the last one. And heaven forbid a broadcaster use hyperbole, wouldn't happen.Babe Ruth is a big American name in baseball so when you export the league you export the names involved. That doesn't make him an international athlete. He dominated a game that was purely and solely American at the time. He's one of the big names in sports but he wasn't a great international athlete. IMO, he makes a 50 times better celebrity than Mary.

 

[larry_boy_44]

you really think Usain Bolt is better than Babe Ruth Tim?

Really?

 

[mad sweeney]

Good work, LB. Seriously. For once you didn't just repeat the same thing over and over.BTW, in the fall of 1946, the Babe was diagnosed with throat cancer, and spent 3 months in the hospital. It was published that he would likely not survive his illness. April 27, 1947, was declared Babe Ruth day. Not just MLB, but every league, professional or amateur, at every level...and in every country baseball was played.

No but over 80% of his quotes were not germaine to the argument. I don't think anyone would doubt what he meant to baseball or his greatness within the game, it's the international appeal that was the topic and only 1 quote touched on that and was a factless opinion.

 

[larry_boy_44]

I'm trying to figure out what all those quotes have to do with his international status, except the last one. And heaven forbid a broadcaster use hyperbole, wouldn't happen.Babe Ruth is a big American name in baseball so when you export the league you export the names involved. That doesn't make him an international athlete. He dominated a game that was purely and solely American at the time. He's one of the big names in sports but he wasn't a great international athlete. IMO, he makes a 50 times better celebrity than Mary.

so... your saying that he's a horrible choice as an athlete because no one worldwide knew who he was....But he's 50 times more known that Mary, one of the most prominent figures of the largest religion on earth??Really?You don't see how contradictory that is?

 

[larry_boy_44]

Good work, LB. Seriously. For once you didn't just repeat the same thing over and over.BTW, in the fall of 1946, the Babe was diagnosed with throat cancer, and spent 3 months in the hospital. It was published that he would likely not survive his illness. April 27, 1947, was declared Babe Ruth day. Not just MLB, but every league, professional or amateur, at every level...and in every country baseball was played.

No but over 80% of his quotes were not germaine to the argument. I don't think anyone would doubt what he meant to baseball or his greatness within the game, it's the international appeal that was the topic and only 1 quote touched on that and was a factless opinion.

actually, what you and Tim are saying is factless opinion since you've repeatedly stated that Babe Ruth is not a world-wide known athlete, yet have provided no evidence of any such thing....Whereas you have been given evidence that he is, in fact, a revered athletic figure worldwide and is STILL considered the greatest player to ever play his game (which is now one of the most popular on earth)

 

[BobbyLayne]

Rules:

10. Athlete Better defined than "Sports figure." Let's limit the discussion to who are the greatest athletes in history from a global perspective.

Let's reconsider the original premise for the category.Worldwide Population by Continent

World - 6.707 billion

Asia 4.054 billion
Africa 973 million
Europe 732 million
Latin America and the Caribbean 577 million
Northern America 337 million
Oceania 34 millionOK...so now go back and look at the reaction to the Wayne Gretzy pick.

Think Gretzky is big in Asia? Africa? Latin America? Oceania?

They don't play hockey there.

The play baseball in far more places.

 

[mad sweeney]

I'm trying to figure out what all those quotes have to do with his international status, except the last one. And heaven forbid a broadcaster use hyperbole, wouldn't happen.Babe Ruth is a big American name in baseball so when you export the league you export the names involved. That doesn't make him an international athlete. He dominated a game that was purely and solely American at the time. He's one of the big names in sports but he wasn't a great international athlete. IMO, he makes a 50 times better celebrity than Mary.

so... your saying that he's a horrible choice as an athlete because no one worldwide knew who he was....But he's 50 times more known that Mary, one of the most prominent figures of the largest religion on earth??Really?You don't see how contradictory that is?

I didn't say no one knew who he was, in fact my point about him being a celebrity pretty much implies that a lot of people knew who he was. I said he was not an international athlete. As in, he dominated an American sport without much international support. There are far more athletes out there with international competition and prominence internationally than the Babe. Your reading comprehension is still low.I also didn't say he was more known than Mary. I said he was a better celebrity than Mary because he was known in his lifetime and was treated like a celebrity in his lifetime.Now go back, read what's there, process it properly and then respond to what was actually said and not to your misinterpreted Bible attacks.

 

[timschochet]

you really think Usain Bolt is better than Babe Ruth Tim?Really?

In terms of international recognition? Absolutely. But let's look at the total list. Excluding, as you wrote, Pele, Gretzky, Jordan, Ali, and Louis, that means you think Ruth should be ranked above:Jim ThorpeEddie MerckxDonald BradmanJesse OwensTiger WoodsUsain Bolt I know next to nothing about Merckx and Bradman, except what I've read here. But since they both appear to have been internationally recognized athletes who were dominant in their sports, I would personally have to rank them above Ruth. All of the others are clearly above Ruth. So right now, I've got Ruth at #19, and frankly I don't expect that to change unless the guy who's got Bruce Lee moves him to a WC, in which case Ruth drops to #20. It would be very difficult for me to see Ruth rising above these others.But again, I'm not the judge of this category. Just giving my own take here.

 

[larry_boy_44]

I'm trying to figure out what all those quotes have to do with his international status, except the last one. And heaven forbid a broadcaster use hyperbole, wouldn't happen.Babe Ruth is a big American name in baseball so when you export the league you export the names involved. That doesn't make him an international athlete. He dominated a game that was purely and solely American at the time. He's one of the big names in sports but he wasn't a great international athlete. IMO, he makes a 50 times better celebrity than Mary.

so... your saying that he's a horrible choice as an athlete because no one worldwide knew who he was....But he's 50 times more known that Mary, one of the most prominent figures of the largest religion on earth??Really?You don't see how contradictory that is?

I didn't say no one knew who he was, in fact my point about him being a celebrity pretty much implies that a lot of people knew who he was. I said he was not an international athlete. As in, he dominated an American sport without much international support. There are far more athletes out there with international competition and prominence internationally than the Babe. Your reading comprehension is still low.I also didn't say he was more known than Mary. I said he was a better celebrity than Mary because he was known in his lifetime and was treated like a celebrity in his lifetime.Now go back, read what's there, process it properly and then respond to what was actually said and not to your misinterpreted Bible attacks.

So Babe Ruth DID bring baseball to the International masses and the fact that he was (and still is) the greatest player to ever play the game is internationally important?Nice....Thanks for making my arguments for me...

 

[mad sweeney]

Good work, LB. Seriously. For once you didn't just repeat the same thing over and over.BTW, in the fall of 1946, the Babe was diagnosed with throat cancer, and spent 3 months in the hospital. It was published that he would likely not survive his illness. April 27, 1947, was declared Babe Ruth day. Not just MLB, but every league, professional or amateur, at every level...and in every country baseball was played.

No but over 80% of his quotes were not germaine to the argument. I don't think anyone would doubt what he meant to baseball or his greatness within the game, it's the international appeal that was the topic and only 1 quote touched on that and was a factless opinion.

actually, what you and Tim are saying is factless opinion since you've repeatedly stated that Babe Ruth is not a world-wide known athlete, yet have provided no evidence of any such thing....Whereas you have been given evidence that he is, in fact, a revered athletic figure worldwide and is STILL considered the greatest player to ever play his game (which is now one of the most popular on earth)

Being a famed player is different than being one of the best international players. A distinction I truly don't expect you to see based on previous arguments. I can't speak for Tim, but I never said he wasn't worldwide known, I said that baseball wasn't an international sport and Babe's athletic prowess was restricted to a mostly American level. Look at the other athletes chosen, they are all in international sports. Baseball wasn't then and while his legacy is prominent when the game was exported, his prowess was not tested internationally.

 

[larry_boy_44]

you really think Usain Bolt is better than Babe Ruth Tim?Really?

In terms of international recognition? Absolutely. But let's look at the total list. Excluding, as you wrote, Pele, Gretzky, Jordan, Ali, and Louis, that means you think Ruth should be ranked above:Jim ThorpeEddie MerckxDonald BradmanJesse OwensTiger WoodsUsain Bolt I know next to nothing about Merckx and Bradman, except what I've read here. But since they both appear to have been internationally recognized athletes who were dominant in their sports, I would personally have to rank them above Ruth. All of the others are clearly above Ruth. So right now, I've got Ruth at #19, and frankly I don't expect that to change unless the guy who's got Bruce Lee moves him to a WC, in which case Ruth drops to #20. It would be very difficult for me to see Ruth rising above these others.But again, I'm not the judge of this category. Just giving my own take here.

you do realize you are the only person on earth who doesn't think Ruth is internationally recognized, right?And I only say that because I am ABSOLUTELY sure that you are not saying that Ruth doesn't (and wouldn't, and hasn't, and will forever) dominate baseball in a way in which no one else has ever dominated anything....