Would the Saints really take Mario Williams? (1 Viewer)

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I just read here that the Jets are shifting to a 3-4? That would seem to preclude a Williams pick. Likewise Ngata, if they're going to move Robertson to the nose.

Robertson would not be a good fit in a 3-4, IMO.

 

[JMon348]

im thinking d'brick or trading out to a team like the Vikes who like Lienart

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

You think the Jets might trade up and take Williams? Let's say they move up and take Leinart - I doubt the Titans would take Williams - their DL is the strength of their team right now, IMO. If NO moves down to #4 and takes Ferguson, GB is unlikely to draft Williams, as the have KGB and Kampman on the ends. Could Mario fall all the way to SF at #6? I just can't see it.

I don't think Mario Williams gets by Green Bay. KGB shouldn't be an everydown DE anyway. They could play Williams and Kampman at DE on run downs...then move Kampman inside on passing downs and bring in KGB.

You think? I seem to be alone in thinking Green Bay may hop on Ngata at #5 - everyone else seems to project Hawk. I haven't seen a Williams-to-GB projection, but I kind of agree on KGB, so that's intriguing as well.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I just read here that the Jets are shifting to a 3-4?  That would seem to preclude a Williams pick.  Likewise Ngata, if they're going to move Robertson to the nose.

Robertson would not be a good fit in a 3-4, IMO.

Ourlads' depth chart shows the Jets in a 3-4.There just HAS to be some trading of draft picks this year. Too many teams are in the wrong spot for the value they need.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I just read here that the Jets are shifting to a 3-4?  That would seem to preclude a Williams pick.  Likewise Ngata, if they're going to move Robertson to the nose.

Robertson would not be a good fit in a 3-4, IMO.

What the hell are they going to do with him? Didn't they trade up to #4 to get this guy just a couple of years ago?:jetsdraftgenius:

 

[massraider]

I don't think having KGB would keep anyone from getting Mario Williams, man, if a team passed on Mario because they have KGB...........well, I don't think that's bright.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

That's what I thought.  In that case, why would Williams be a "monster" 3-4 DE? 

From a football fan perspective, wouldn't Williams playing a 3-4 DE be a waste of talent?

A bit, but any D coordinator with half a brain would modify some sets to get mario on the edge... Im toying with this scenario in the case that Mario falls to the Niners, who run a 3-4 (Bush-Leinart-Young-Brick-Hawk would be the first 5)

If you think that Williams could and would play well as a 3-4 DE, I would peg the top 5 picks thusly (barring trades):Bush/Ferguson/Leinart/Williams/Hawk

in that scenario, i would have A) the jets moving up to take leinart at 2, giving up 1.29 and 3.04 (equals out in pick chart value), B) the saints taking brick at 4, and C) GB opting for Hawk over Williams, but that is a coinflip.

 

[JMon348]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

you think that the jets would put that much money into their qbs? did they trade for ramsey just to make him a third stringer and have no shot at being a starter? or is pennington never wearing a jet uniform again?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

You think the Jets might trade up and take Williams? Let's say they move up and take Leinart - I doubt the Titans would take Williams - their DL is the strength of their team right now, IMO. If NO moves down to #4 and takes Ferguson, GB is unlikely to draft Williams, as the have KGB and Kampman on the ends. Could Mario fall all the way to SF at #6? I just can't see it.

I don't think Mario Williams gets by Green Bay. KGB shouldn't be an everydown DE anyway. They could play Williams and Kampman at DE on run downs...then move Kampman inside on passing downs and bring in KGB.

You think? I seem to be alone in thinking Green Bay may hop on Ngata at #5 - everyone else seems to project Hawk. I haven't seen a Williams-to-GB projection, but I kind of agree on KGB, so that's intriguing as well.

IMO, they've been trying to upgrade at DE and replace Reggie White for awhile now...Vonnie Holliday, Joe Johnson, Jamal Reynolds, etc. Williams makes perfect sense. They already signed Pickett to replace Grady Jackson and fill their need at DT. I agree Hawk is another good possibility for them, but I still think they'd take Williams in the first and look for LB help in the later rounds. Much easier to find productive LBs in rounds 2 and 3 than it is to land a stud DE.

 

[Reaper]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

Their primary role is to hold their sand, and take on blockers, allowing the LB's to make plays. If you run a 3-4, taking a DE with a top 5 pick makes little sense to me. The NT is more important in that role. If the Jets were sitting there with Mario staring them in the face, it'd make more sense to move down a few spots, and grab Hawk or Ngata. I wouldn't agree with the Ngata move either, unless they were sure he was the Samoan Casey Hampton, but it'd at least make more sense, as I think 3-4 NT's are tougher to come by than 3-4 DE's. 3-4 DE's can be pulled off the scrap heap relatively easily.

Actually, the Jets could move down several spots and take Young or Cutler, I'm guessing.

Pats did ok with the Richard Seymour pick when people had them pegged for David Terrel or the OT.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I would peg the top 5 picks thusly (barring trades):

Bush/Ferguson/Leinart/Williams/Hawk

in that scenario, i would have A) the jets moving up to take leinart at 2, giving up 1.29 and 3.04 (equals out in pick chart value), B) the saints taking brick at 4, and C) GB opting for Hawk over Williams, but that is a coinflip.

The Jets would seriously give 1.04, 1.29, and 3.04 to move up two spots? I think that's crazy, no matter what any chart says.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

IMO, they've been trying to upgrade at DE and replace Reggie White for awhile now...Vonnie Holliday, Joe Johnson, Jamal Reynolds, etc. Williams makes perfect sense. They already signed Pickett to replace Grady Jackson and fill their need at DT. I agree Hawk is another good possibility for them, but I still think they'd take Williams in the first and look for LB help in the later rounds. Much easier to find productive LBs in rounds 2 and 3 than it is to land a stud DE.

Given a choice between Williams and Hawk I think the Packers would take Williams any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

you think that the jets would put that much money into their qbs? did they trade for ramsey just to make him a third stringer and have no shot at being a starter? or is pennington never wearing a jet uniform again?

I tend to agree with this. I don't think the Jets are going QB - I think if they stay at #4, they'll take Ferguson. Or, now that I read they're switching to a 3-4, Ngata makes a TON of sense if they don't like Robertson on the nose. Ngata could be a perennial All-Pro and I think is underrated in this draft.

 

[Reaper]

I just read here that the Jets are shifting to a 3-4?  That would seem to preclude a Williams pick.  Likewise Ngata, if they're going to move Robertson to the nose.

Robertson would not be a good fit in a 3-4, IMO.

What the hell are they going to do with him? Didn't they trade up to #4 to get this guy just a couple of years ago?:jetsdraftgenius:

I don't think Robertson gets an extension... There was talk that he was the only DL that didn't get a contract redone.It's rebuilding year - They don't need all the 3-4 pieces in 1 shot - Robertson will get a 1 year tryout and may be gone. If they were ready now they would probably have jumped right into the Sam Adams race.

 

[massraider]

new HC is payton, who came from DAL... they ran 3-4 a lot, but he isn't from defensive side, so i don't know if that matters... does new DC prefer 4-3? if 3-4, williams would be a monster 3-4 DE... grant is big enough to play there, too, & smith is likely agile enough to play 3-4 OLB...

Help me out folks. I still don't understand the role of a D-End in a 3-4 alignment. I know from a size perspective, Williams is built for the 3-4.But does a 3-4 DE really have that much impact on the game?

Their primary role is to hold their sand, and take on blockers, allowing the LB's to make plays. If you run a 3-4, taking a DE with a top 5 pick makes little sense to me. The NT is more important in that role. If the Jets were sitting there with Mario staring them in the face, it'd make more sense to move down a few spots, and grab Hawk or Ngata. I wouldn't agree with the Ngata move either, unless they were sure he was the Samoan Casey Hampton, but it'd at least make more sense, as I think 3-4 NT's are tougher to come by than 3-4 DE's. 3-4 DE's can be pulled off the scrap heap relatively easily.

Actually, the Jets could move down several spots and take Young or Cutler, I'm guessing.

Pats did ok with the Richard Seymour pick when people had them pegged for David Terrel or the OT.

Yeah, they did. My only point about that is that it's kind of a waste of resources to have a top 5 pick at 3-4 DE, making that money, when a Kimo or Aaron Smith-type will do just fine. I'd also say this about Seymour, he's a special player, but I think his numbers would be significantly batter if he was a 4-3 DT.

 

[s_ezy]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

you think that the jets would put that much money into their qbs? did they trade for ramsey just to make him a third stringer and have no shot at being a starter? or is pennington never wearing a jet uniform again?

I tend to agree with this. I don't think the Jets are going QB - I think if they stay at #4, they'll take Ferguson. Or, now that I read they're switching to a 3-4, Ngata makes a TON of sense if they don't like Robertson on the nose. Ngata could be a perennial All-Pro and I think is underrated in this draft.

and even without much press pre-draft day, come draft day good D-Line prospects alwasy seem to jump up in the draft

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

you think that the jets would put that much money into their qbs? did they trade for ramsey just to make him a third stringer and have no shot at being a starter? or is pennington never wearing a jet uniform again?

ramsey cost them very little. they cant be counting on pennington now. Its just a scenario Im toying with. Honestly, I can't get a read on picks 2-6 at all. its just nuts how many possibilities there are.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I would peg the top 5 picks thusly (barring trades):

Bush/Ferguson/Leinart/Williams/Hawk

in that scenario, i would have A) the jets moving up to take leinart at 2, giving up 1.29 and 3.04 (equals out in pick chart value), B) the saints taking brick at 4, and C) GB opting for Hawk over Williams, but that is a coinflip.

The Jets would seriously give 1.04, 1.29, and 3.04 to move up two spots? I think that's crazy, no matter what any chart says.

thats what the pick chart dictates (at least the one i can find)

 

[saintfool]

in that scenario, i would have A) the jets moving up to take leinart at 2, giving up 1.29 and 3.04 (equals out in pick chart value), B) the saints taking brick at 4, and C) GB opting for Hawk over Williams, but that is a coinflip.

at 1.4 do the saints give consideration to hawk then versus d'brick? most put hawk right around there anyway. is d'brick a real value at 1.4? at 1.4, i would have a difficult time passing up on the second coming of urlacher if i'm the saints when that has been a need position for so long. it becomes really difficult for the saints, i think, if you have a shot at either of those guys in that position...

 

[Reaper]

I just read here that the Jets are shifting to a 3-4?  That would seem to preclude a Williams pick.  Likewise Ngata, if they're going to move Robertson to the nose.

Robertson would not be a good fit in a 3-4, IMO.

I disagree and I don't think it's all about fitting a traditional 3-4 role - Liek the Pats, Mangini will try to disguise fronts and confuse the opponent- What better way to do that then with a Monster DE that can play a 4-3, a 3-4 and Maybe even drop into a zone coverage?Who the hell would be better for a 3-4 DE? I understand he could get the best stats as a 4-3 DE but, he'll be a force and will allow a defense to be versatile which is the key - NOT conforming to some set 3-4 plan.

 

[Reaper]

Pats did ok with the Richard Seymour pick when people had them pegged for David Terrel or the OT.

Yeah, they did. My only point about that is that it's kind of a waste of resources to have a top 5 pick at 3-4 DE, making that money, when a Kimo or Aaron Smith-type will do just fine.

I'd also say this about Seymour, he's a special player, but I think his numbers would be significantly batter if he was a 4-3 DT.

That's the point - the ONLY numbers that count are the SUPER BOWL numbers and he's got em.

 

[JMon348]

Ultimately they would be best served by trading down a few spots, but are there any takers?

I bet the jets would happily give up 1.29 and 3.04 to land Leinart. Im not sure that the saints would want to trade down farther than 4 if they want to be assured of landing Ferguson or Hawk.

you think that the jets would put that much money into their qbs? did they trade for ramsey just to make him a third stringer and have no shot at being a starter? or is pennington never wearing a jet uniform again?

ramsey cost them very little. they cant be counting on pennington now. Its just a scenario Im toying with. Honestly, I can't get a read on picks 2-6 at all. its just nuts how many possibilities there are.

I think the Saints are salivating at having bookend tackles for the next 10 years, they just got their qb, they have their rb, and backup rb in place.........they have alot of needs so a team like the vikings who have 5 first day picks might interest the Saints about moving off of DBrick, so i say the Saints either take Dbrick or trade it for a lot of picks

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I can't see the Vikings moving up to the top 5. It would probably take all their picks (got that pick analyzer handy Bloom?) in the first 3 rounds to do so, and I just can't see them doing that.

Moving up to around the 10 spot? Maybe. But not top 5.

 

[massraider]

Pats did ok with the Richard Seymour pick when people had them pegged for David Terrel or the OT.

Yeah, they did. My only point about that is that it's kind of a waste of resources to have a top 5 pick at 3-4 DE, making that money, when a Kimo or Aaron Smith-type will do just fine.

I'd also say this about Seymour, he's a special player, but I think his numbers would be significantly batter if he was a 4-3 DT.

That's the point - the ONLY numbers that count are the SUPER BOWL numbers and he's got em.

Oh, Super Bowl wins is the point? Gotcha.

 

[Reaper]

Oh, Super Bowl wins is the point? Gotcha.

Or.... Building a Championship Defense - And I feel the Mangini - Pats connection is definitely in play with how they built that defense around a big versitile DE that many said was not a perfect fit or was too expensive for his "Role".

I just think Mangini is wetting his pampers at the prospect of getting a guy like Williams.... I also don't think D'brick is the type of Tackle he wants and there's more OT"s to draft later on that might be as good where it's doubtful that there's another DE like Williams...

I'm not discounting a QB though for the Jets and money already spent means nothing.

 

[massraider]

Great, you messed up MY quote function too!

 

[massraider]

Oh, Super Bowl wins is the point?  Gotcha. 

Or.... Building a Championship Defense - And I feel the Mangini - Pats connection is definitely in play with how they built that defense around a big versitile DE that many said was not a perfect fit or was too expensive for his "Role".

I just think Mangini is wetting his pampers at the prospect of getting a guy like Williams.... I also don't think D'brick is the type of Tackle he wants and there's more OT"s to draft later on that might be as good where it's doubtful that there's another DE like Williams...

Fair enough. Have their been rumbling in Jet-land about him? I live in NYC, but haven't really heard about anything other than the QB's.

 

[BlueOnion]

Oh, Super Bowl wins is the point?  Gotcha.  

Or.... Building a Championship Defense - And I feel the Mangini - Pats connection is definitely in play with how they built that defense around a big versitile DE that many said was not a perfect fit or was too expensive for his "Role".

I just think Mangini is wetting his pampers at the prospect of getting a guy like Williams.... I also don't think D'brick is the type of Tackle he wants and there's more OT"s to draft later on that might be as good where it's doubtful that there's another DE like Williams...

Fair enough. Have their been rumbling in Jet-land about him? I live in NYC, but haven't really heard about anything other than the QB's.

I have heard very little. Most of the talk is about Cutler, Lienart and 'Brick. When Mario does comes up, most of the arguments are, "You just had Mario (John Abraham) at Mario's full potential and you traded him."

 

[massraider]

Oh, Super Bowl wins is the point?  Gotcha.  

Or.... Building a Championship Defense - And I feel the Mangini - Pats connection is definitely in play with how they built that defense around a big versitile DE that many said was not a perfect fit or was too expensive for his "Role".

I just think Mangini is wetting his pampers at the prospect of getting a guy like Williams.... I also don't think D'brick is the type of Tackle he wants and there's more OT"s to draft later on that might be as good where it's doubtful that there's another DE like Williams...

Fair enough. Have their been rumbling in Jet-land about him? I live in NYC, but haven't really heard about anything other than the QB's.

I have heard very little. Most of the talk is about Cutler, Lienart and 'Brick. When Mario does comes up, most of the arguments are, "You just had Mario (John Abraham) at Mario's full potential and you traded him."

Heh, yeah, think I head that from Michael Kay after the trade.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I have heard very little.  Most of the talk is about Cutler, Lienart and 'Brick.  When Mario does comes up, most of the arguments are, "You just had Mario (John Abraham) at Mario's full potential and you traded him."

That was due to personality and contract more than talent.Comparing players in that fashion is stupid.

 

[houndirish]

Just because Mario is slated as the #5 player, does not mean he will be the #5 pick.

Peter King seems to be implying that they would consider taking him at #2 overall

This has to be the standard "talk up the player" in the hopes of getting a viable trade offer. Even if the Saints stay put I struggle to see them taking Williams. Fatty McButterpants is exactly the kind of idiot that's too stupid to notice this and simply takes the information at face value. NFL teams love guys like Fatty. He serves their agendas perfectly.

 

[s_ezy]

Oh, Super Bowl wins is the point?  Gotcha.  

Or.... Building a Championship Defense - And I feel the Mangini - Pats connection is definitely in play with how they built that defense around a big versitile DE that many said was not a perfect fit or was too expensive for his "Role".

I just think Mangini is wetting his pampers at the prospect of getting a guy like Williams.... I also don't think D'brick is the type of Tackle he wants and there's more OT"s to draft later on that might be as good where it's doubtful that there's another DE like Williams...

Fair enough. Have their been rumbling in Jet-land about him? I live in NYC, but haven't really heard about anything other than the QB's.

I have heard very little. Most of the talk is about Cutler, Lienart and 'Brick. When Mario does comes up, most of the arguments are, "You just had Mario (John Abraham) at Mario's full potential and you traded him."

except that Mario has 3 inches and 45 lbs. on Abraham....

 

[Reaper]

Oh, Super Bowl wins is the point?  Gotcha.  

Or.... Building a Championship Defense - And I feel the Mangini - Pats connection is definitely in play with how they built that defense around a big versitile DE that many said was not a perfect fit or was too expensive for his "Role".

I just think Mangini is wetting his pampers at the prospect of getting a guy like Williams.... I also don't think D'brick is the type of Tackle he wants and there's more OT"s to draft later on that might be as good where it's doubtful that there's another DE like Williams...

Fair enough. Have their been rumbling in Jet-land about him? I live in NYC, but haven't really heard about anything other than the QB's.

I'd say, among the boards I frequent he's the concensus pick...BUT - no one knows what to do with these QB's and fears looking back for the next 15 years like they missed Marino again.

 

[BlueOnion]

I have heard very little.  Most of the talk is about Cutler, Lienart and 'Brick.  When Mario does comes up, most of the arguments are, "You just had Mario (John Abraham) at Mario's full potential and you traded him."

That was due to personality and contract more than talent.Comparing players in that fashion is stupid.

Just reporting what I have heard on the radio.

 

[Z-Dog]

I just read here that the Jets are shifting to a 3-4? That would seem to preclude a Williams pick. Likewise Ngata, if they're going to move Robertson to the nose.

Robertson would not be a good fit in a 3-4, IMO.

I disagree and I don't think it's all about fitting a traditional 3-4 role - Liek the Pats, Mangini will try to disguise fronts and confuse the opponent- What better way to do that then with a Monster DE that can play a 4-3, a 3-4 and Maybe even drop into a zone coverage?Who the hell would be better for a 3-4 DE? I understand he could get the best stats as a 4-3 DE but, he'll be a force and will allow a defense to be versatile which is the key - NOT conforming to some set 3-4 plan.

Robertson has been a disappointment and has chronic knee degeneration. While some will say that he has been steaily improving, I think the Jets may just part ways with him an go in another direction when his contract expires, unless he steps up in a big way. I think Williams is a better prosepct than Seymour, and will be able to move around like Seymour and play inside and outside. I think he has to be number three on the Jets draft board, behind only Bush an Leinart.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I have heard very little.  Most of the talk is about Cutler, Lienart and 'Brick.  When Mario does comes up, most of the arguments are, "You just had Mario (John Abraham) at Mario's full potential and you traded him."

That was due to personality and contract more than talent.Comparing players in that fashion is stupid.

Just reporting what I have heard on the radio.

I know it wasn't your comparison.

 

[BlueOnion]

so, a team with Tom Brady should look to upgrade with a a 1st round QB?

draft position becomes rather irrelevant once you enter the league and establish yourself. fact is that Charles Grant and Will Smith would be considered elite or soon to be elite DEs by most NFL talent evaluators. Mario Williams would have be to one of the best 2 or 3 at his position to provide any upgrade at all, and the difference still wouldn't be that great.

Out of curiousity, do you think Houston will take Reggie Bush even though they have Dominick Davis?

 

[BlueOnion]

I have heard very little.  Most of the talk is about Cutler, Lienart and 'Brick.  When Mario does comes up, most of the arguments are, "You just had Mario (John Abraham) at Mario's full potential and you traded him."

That was due to personality and contract more than talent.Comparing players in that fashion is stupid.

Just reporting what I have heard on the radio.

I know it wasn't your comparison.

And I agree with you completely; John Abraham was never going to buy into the uniform (Jets) regardless of money or the new regime in place. The relationship had just run it's course.

 

[hobbes4]

so, a team with Tom Brady should look to upgrade with a a 1st round QB?

draft position becomes rather irrelevant once you enter the league and establish yourself. fact is that Charles Grant and Will Smith would be considered elite or soon to be elite DEs by most NFL talent evaluators. Mario Williams would have be to one of the best 2 or 3 at his position to provide any upgrade at all, and the difference still wouldn't be that great.

Out of curiousity, do you think Houston will take Reggie Bush even though they have Dominick Davis?

Houston has to take Reggie. His game tape and combine/workout stats point to him being a freak type, once every 5 year talent. He seems to be getting the buzz Mike Vick got when he came out. Bush can stay on the field with DD in the backfield and be a major help to Carr as an emergency option in the flat, etc. He will cause nightmares with LBs. I think it works to Houston's advantage to have Davis so you do not subject Bush to 30+ touches a game..I think NO would take 5 secs to grab him at 2 if H-town decided not to grab him.

 

[hobbes4]

BTW, how much better really is Hawk over Greenway. They played in the same conference. The should be easy to measure against each other. I live in SEC country and didnt watch much IOWA ball.. Seems to me taking Hawk top 5 is scary unless the comparisons are to Singletary.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

BTW, how much better really is Hawk over Greenway. They played in the same conference. The should be easy to measure against each other. I live in SEC country and didnt watch much IOWA ball.. Seems to me taking Hawk top 5 is scary unless the comparisons are to Singletary.

The comparisons are to Urlacher. And I heard that Hodge played better than Greenway this year.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

BTW, how much better really is Hawk over Greenway. They played in the same conference. The should be easy to measure against each other. I live in SEC country and didnt watch much IOWA ball.. Seems to me taking Hawk top 5 is scary unless the comparisons are to Singletary.

they are to singletary, urlacher, ray lewis, any LB you can think of.Like Bush, you should definitely believe the hype on this guy. I honestly can't think of one question mark - intangibles, athleticism, ferocious gameplay, the ability to play any LB position in any scheme, character - it's all there.

Hawk = Bush of LBs, an every 5 year can't miss kind of player.

 

[saintfool]

they are to singletary, urlacher, ray lewis, any LB you can think of.

Like Bush, you should definitely believe the hype on this guy. I honestly can't think of one question mark - intangibles, athleticism, ferocious gameplay, the ability to play any LB position in any scheme, character - it's all there.

Hawk = Bush of LBs, an every 5 year can't miss kind of player.

this is why I wonder what the Saints would do if they dropped back to say 1.4 or 1.5. If D'Brick and Hawk are available at that slot (1.4-ish) then it becomes a real quandry. Is D'brick that much more valuable at that postion than Hawk? Especially given the current Saints roster?

 

[massraider]

they are to singletary, urlacher, ray lewis, any LB you can think of.

Like Bush, you should definitely believe the hype on this guy. I honestly can't think of one question mark - intangibles, athleticism, ferocious gameplay, the ability to play any LB position in any scheme, character - it's all there.

Hawk = Bush of LBs, an every 5 year can't miss kind of player.

this is why I wonder what the Saints would do if they dropped back to say 1.4 or 1.5. If D'Brick and Hawk are available at that slot (1.4-ish) then it becomes a real quandry. Is D'brick that much more valuable at that postion than Hawk? Especially given the current Saints roster?

I'd have a tough time knocking either pick. OT's have a higher success rate, and Brick would be the safer pick, but Hawk? Yeah, they could sure use a LB--or two.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

they are to singletary, urlacher, ray lewis, any LB you can think of.

Like Bush, you should definitely believe the hype on this guy. I honestly can't think of one question mark - intangibles, athleticism, ferocious gameplay, the ability to play any LB position in any scheme, character - it's all there.

Hawk = Bush of LBs, an every 5 year can't miss kind of player.

this is why I wonder what the Saints would do if they dropped back to say 1.4 or 1.5. If D'Brick and Hawk are available at that slot (1.4-ish) then it becomes a real quandry. Is D'brick that much more valuable at that postion than Hawk? Especially given the current Saints roster?

I'd have a tough time knocking either pick. OT's have a higher success rate, and Brick would be the safer pick, but Hawk? Yeah, they could sure use a LB--or two.

Better to go a) D-Brick in the 1st and someone like Thomas Howard, D'Qwell Jackson, Abdul Hodge in the 2nd than

b)Hawk in the 1st and someone like Jon Scott or any other 2nd tier OT in the 2nd.

 

[Jason Wood]

they are to singletary, urlacher, ray lewis, any LB you can think of.

Like Bush, you should definitely believe the hype on this guy. I honestly can't think of one question mark - intangibles, athleticism, ferocious gameplay, the ability to play any LB position in any scheme, character - it's all there.

Hawk = Bush of LBs, an every 5 year can't miss kind of player.

this is why I wonder what the Saints would do if they dropped back to say 1.4 or 1.5. If D'Brick and Hawk are available at that slot (1.4-ish) then it becomes a real quandry. Is D'brick that much more valuable at that postion than Hawk? Especially given the current Saints roster?

I'd have a tough time knocking either pick. OT's have a higher success rate, and Brick would be the safer pick, but Hawk? Yeah, they could sure use a LB--or two.

Better to go a) D-Brick in the 1st and someone like Thomas Howard, D'Qwell Jackson, Abdul Hodge in the 2nd than

b)Hawk in the 1st and someone like Jon Scott or any other 2nd tier OT in the 2nd.

Not necessarily.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

i would flip the question around... if your scouts tell you this guy has a chance to be better than peppers & best DE since reggie white... don't you at least think about bringing him in, & sort out the part about recouping value by trading grant later?

Many scouts thought Courtney Brown was the best DE since Bruce Smith. We already know that Grant and Smith can play, and play very well. I see no reason to take a chance on a marginally better player who could also go bust when you already have two young studs at the same position. The Saints should definitely try to move down, and Williams shouldn't even be a consideration, IMO.

BTW,i might have started a ruckus with 3-4 talk... that was just speculation to think of a way hypothetically williams, grant & smith could be on field at same time...

i still think two issues that could bear on saints decision are worth thinking about...

yes, williams could be bust... but so could ferguson & hawk...

i think teams have to rely on scout, coaching & front office eval... if they are in unison in saying he is next reggie white... i don't think they hesitate to pull trigger because he might be bust... otherwise they would hesitate on all picks because everybody could be a bust...

so that is an important question... we don't know how high a grade williams carries for them... my earlier question wasn't so much how high you are on him... but hypothetically... IF you were CONVINCED he was similar prospect to reggie white with his upside... IOW, one of the top DE prospects ever (another factor would be would they think brick or hawk could be among top LT or LB prospects of all time?)... do you get him...

also, any thoughts on how high a pick charles grant could fetch?

if a mid-first rounder or PLUS... they could get a pretty good LB there... though surely second best OL justice will be gone by then after his lights out workout...

 

[Andy Dufresne]

they are to singletary, urlacher, ray lewis, any LB you can think of.

Like Bush, you should definitely believe the hype on this guy. I honestly can't think of one question mark - intangibles, athleticism, ferocious gameplay, the ability to play any LB position in any scheme, character - it's all there.

Hawk = Bush of LBs, an every 5 year can't miss kind of player.

this is why I wonder what the Saints would do if they dropped back to say 1.4 or 1.5. If D'Brick and Hawk are available at that slot (1.4-ish) then it becomes a real quandry. Is D'brick that much more valuable at that postion than Hawk? Especially given the current Saints roster?

I'd have a tough time knocking either pick. OT's have a higher success rate, and Brick would be the safer pick, but Hawk? Yeah, they could sure use a LB--or two.

Better to go a) D-Brick in the 1st and someone like Thomas Howard, D'Qwell Jackson, Abdul Hodge in the 2nd than

b)Hawk in the 1st and someone like Jon Scott or any other 2nd tier OT in the 2nd.

Not necessarily.

Should have added: In my opinion.

 

[Jason Wood]

they are to singletary, urlacher, ray lewis, any LB you can think of.

Like Bush, you should definitely believe the hype on this guy. I honestly can't think of one question mark - intangibles, athleticism, ferocious gameplay, the ability to play any LB position in any scheme, character - it's all there.

Hawk = Bush of LBs, an every 5 year can't miss kind of player.

this is why I wonder what the Saints would do if they dropped back to say 1.4 or 1.5. If D'Brick and Hawk are available at that slot (1.4-ish) then it becomes a real quandry. Is D'brick that much more valuable at that postion than Hawk? Especially given the current Saints roster?

I'd have a tough time knocking either pick. OT's have a higher success rate, and Brick would be the safer pick, but Hawk? Yeah, they could sure use a LB--or two.

Better to go a) D-Brick in the 1st and someone like Thomas Howard, D'Qwell Jackson, Abdul Hodge in the 2nd than

b)Hawk in the 1st and someone like Jon Scott or any other 2nd tier OT in the 2nd.

Not necessarily.

Should have added: In my opinion.

I happen to agree with you by the way, but that's predicated on my belief that D'Brick will be a fixture LT for some team for 8-10 years.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

they are to singletary, urlacher, ray lewis, any LB you can think of.

Like Bush, you should definitely believe the hype on this guy. I honestly can't think of one question mark - intangibles, athleticism, ferocious gameplay, the ability to play any LB position in any scheme, character - it's all there.

Hawk = Bush of LBs, an every 5 year can't miss kind of player.

this is why I wonder what the Saints would do if they dropped back to say 1.4 or 1.5. If D'Brick and Hawk are available at that slot (1.4-ish) then it becomes a real quandry. Is D'brick that much more valuable at that postion than Hawk? Especially given the current Saints roster?

I'd have a tough time knocking either pick. OT's have a higher success rate, and Brick would be the safer pick, but Hawk? Yeah, they could sure use a LB--or two.

Better to go a) D-Brick in the 1st and someone like Thomas Howard, D'Qwell Jackson, Abdul Hodge in the 2nd than

b)Hawk in the 1st and someone like Jon Scott or any other 2nd tier OT in the 2nd.

Not necessarily.

Should have added: In my opinion.

I happen to agree with you by the way, but that's predicated on my belief that D'Brick will be a fixture LT for some team for 8-10 years.

And with Jamaal Brown on the opposite side, McAllister returning from injury, and Brees (hopefully) improving the QB position, the Saints offense really starts to look pretty good.WR position is a concern though. Does Horn bounce back? Does Stallworth improve over last year, when he seemed to "get" it.