Would You Rather (February Dynasty Rookie Edition) (1 Viewer)

[socrates]

Would you rather (Dynasty Rookie Edition)

This is a February Rookie Price Check. Obviously, things will change drastically between now and the Draft, but I am curious about your early thoughts on these prospects.

QB

Cam Ward or Shedeur Sanders?

Perhaps the answer is neither in start 1-QB leagues, but if you need to draft one of these Rookie QBs, who would you prefer? Ward has the size, a quick release, and he excels at off-platform throws; Sanders has better accuracy and throws a tremendous deep ball.

RB

Kaleb Johnson or Quinshon Judkins?

There are some similarities in their game. Both excel at running North-South and display excellent vision. I am on Team KJ; but I would be happy to land either.

Devin Neal or Dylan Sampson

This is a very deep RB class. Once the early tier of backs is gone, there will be a lot of backs jockeying for roles. These are a couple of favs. Who else are you targeting?

Trevor Etienne or Damien Martinez

Etienne disappointed during his college career. Can he turn that around in the NFL? Is Martinez destined for a big enough role for some fantasy value?

WR:

Luther Burden or Emeka Egbuka?

I had Burden ahead of Egbuka going into this season, but it is very close.

Tre Harris or Jayden Higgins or Elic Ayomanor?

If you like big-bodies receivers, this tier of receivers is for you. Jayden Higgins (Iowa State) is 6-4 / 217; Tre Harris (Ole Miss) measures in at 6-3 / 210; and Elic Ayomanor (Stanford) checks in at 6-2 / 210. Higgins is coming off a nice performance during Senior Bowl Week.

TE:

Elijah Arroyo or Mason Taylor or Harold Fannin, Jr.?

Fannin had incredible production at Bowling Green this season (117 rec | 1,555 yds | 13.3 avg | 10 TDs). Reports from the Senior Bowl were that both Arroyo and Taylor looked like smoother athletes.

 

[rockaction]

Nice thread. I'll be back to it later tonight.

 

[eighsse2]

Based on almost no knowledge of the players, my choices would be:

Cam Ward (assumption: Sanders is an overrated gimmick guy because of his lineage; they seem to be ranked about equal, therefore Ward ends up ahead if I make that adjustment)

Quinshon Judkins (one of the only rookies I actually watched in college this year, and he seemed pretty dynamic; also I've simply heard Kaleb Johnson's name a lot less)

Trevor Etienne (because I've never heard of the other guy)

Devin Neal (because I've never heard of the other guy)

Luther Burden (because he was touted as elite coming into the year; chalk it up as a fluky down year)

Tre Harris (because I've never heard of the other guys)

And I don't follow TE's (I play in a 0-1 TE league)

 

[-OZ-]

My NFL team - Ward. But I think sanders is better in FF.

Neal, burden, and Fannin. I don’t know enough about the others to assess.

 

[travdogg]

Ward by a lot, Sanders looks like a strong bust candidate to me.
Johnson by a lot, better version of a similar player who did it in a much tougher situation.
Sampson by a lot, I REALLY like Sampson. I think he looks like another James Cook. I like him over Judkins too.
Martinez by a lot, I'm not sure Etienne has an NFL future.
Burden by a hair, really like both, I think Burden offers more RAC.
Ayomanor>Higgins>>Harris, I don't really think Harris is anything special. I don't really see any of these guys being #1s.
TEs are a tossup to me. I guess I trust Fannin the least, due to size and level of competition. I guess I'd lean toward Arroyo, but that may be influenced by how much Ward I've watched.

 

[menobrown]

You came up with good options, very similar players and all of this are kind of close, except maybe the TE's.

Cam Ward or Shedeur Sanders?

Perhaps the answer is neither in start 1-QB leagues, but if you need to draft one of these Rookie QBs, who would you prefer? Ward has the size, a quick release, and he excels at off-platform throws; Sanders has better accuracy and throws a tremendous deep ball.

Not into either with a high pick in a one start QB league but of the two I think Sanders has the higher floor and Ward the higher ceiling and when it comes to QB's in one start QB leagues I'm always going ceiling.

RB

Kaleb Johnson or Quinshon Judkins?

There are some similarities in their game. Both excel at running North-South and display excellent vision. I am on Team KJ; but I would be happy to land either.

Devin Neal or Dylan Sampson

This is a very deep RB class. Once the early tier of backs is gone, there will be a lot of backs jockeying for roles. These are a couple of favs. Who else are you targeting?

Trevor Etienne or Damien Martinez

Etienne disappointed during his college career. Can he turn that around in the NFL? Is Martinez destined for a big enough role for some fantasy value?

Right now Kaleb, Neal, and Martinez.

Landing spot and draft capital matters for all of these players but exponentially so for RB's so whatever I think of these players today you can ball up and trash after the NFL draft.

WR:

Luther Burden or Emeka Egbuka?

Burden and kind of view this similar to Ward vs Sanders where I think Egbuka has the higher floor, but I'm going after higher ceiling.

Tre Harris or Jayden Higgins or Elic Ayomanor?

Ayonmanor, productive both years and think he has more untapped growth potential as he's late arrival to the US.

Elijah Arroyo or Mason Taylor or Harold Fannin, Jr.?

Very interesting one because I've flipped these from what I'd have told you about 2 weeks ago. At that point I'd have had it as Fannin, Taylor and Arroyo not really on my radar tbh.

Now it's Arroyo barely over Taylor and both decidely over Fannin. I would go so far as to say the gap between Fannin and these two is larger then the gap between any other option you provided, which again were great comps with similar skill sets.

 

[socrates]

Sampson by a lot, I REALLY like Sampson. I think he looks like another James Cook. I like him over Judkins too.

You may be right on Sampson. Gutsy to take him over Judkins, but those are the kinds of winning moves you have to be willing to make if you believe.

I'm not sure Etienne has an NFL future.

It's hard to make a case for him having success in the NFL.

 

[socrates]

in one start QB leagues I'm always going ceiling

Agreed. Give me the upside swing.

Landing spot and draft capital matters for all of these players but exponentially so for RB's so whatever I think of these players today you can ball up and trash after the NFL draft.

This is so true. It makes you wonder why we go through the motions.

Burden and kind of view this similar to Ward vs Sanders where I think Egbuka has the higher floor, but I'm going after higher ceiling.

Before this season, Burden clearly had the higher ceiling. I still think he does, but the gap is not as wide.

Ayonmanor, productive both years and think he has more untapped growth potential as he's late arrival to the US.

I do love that potential.

Now it's Arroyo barely over Taylor and both decidely over Fannin. I would go so far as to say the gap between Fannin and these two is larger then the gap between any other option you provided, which again were great comps with similar skill sets.

I have done exactly the same. I was buying into Fannin's production, but Senior Bowl week opened my eyes. I now have Arroyo and Taylor neck-and-neck.

 

[menobrown]

I'm not sure Etienne has an NFL future.

It's hard to make a case for him having success in the NFL.

These are some pretty strong takes relative the week he just had and feedback others are saying about him.

 

[eighsse2]

Landing spot and draft capital matters for all of these players but exponentially so for RB's so whatever I think of these players today you can ball up and trash after the NFL draft.

This is so true. It makes you wonder why we go through the motions.

And sometimes I don't even know what to make of the landing spots. Bucky Irving? Little mid-round guy going into Rachaad White's house, the guy who gets used like crazy even with 3.6 yards per carry? Surprise, surprise.

 

[socrates]

I'm not sure Etienne has an NFL future.

It's hard to make a case for him having success in the NFL.

These are some pretty strong takes relative the week he just had and feedback others are saying about him.

Fair point. He is coming off a solid week leading up to the Senior Bowl, even being named the Top RB. I want to see Etienne string some successes together this offseason, to include a strong performance at the Combine. I think Etienne could find a role as a receiving back, but I have seen nothing yet to convince me he has a future as an every-down back in the NFL. As far as Fantasy value goes, he will need to carve out more than just an occasional rotational receiving back role. He is certainly on my radar, but he has a lot to prove.

 

[menobrown]

I'm not sure Etienne has an NFL future.

It's hard to make a case for him having success in the NFL.

These are some pretty strong takes relative the week he just had and feedback others are saying about him.

Fair point. He is coming off a solid week leading up to the Senior Bowl, even being named the Top RB. I want to see Etienne string some successes together this offseason, to include a strong performance at the Combine. I think Etienne could find a role as a receiving back, but I have seen nothing yet to convince me he has a future as an every-down back in the NFL. As far as Fantasy value goes, he will need to carve out more than just an occasional rotational receiving back role. He is certainly on my radar, but he has a lot to prove.

I think you are both way to down on him.

Jeremiah is saying he's a locked in day two pick. Even before this week he was projected as a mid round pick. Success was the term you used and that's a subjective term but I think he's going to have a role and a future for sure.

 

[socrates]

I'm not sure Etienne has an NFL future.

It's hard to make a case for him having success in the NFL.

These are some pretty strong takes relative the week he just had and feedback others are saying about him.

Fair point. He is coming off a solid week leading up to the Senior Bowl, even being named the Top RB. I want to see Etienne string some successes together this offseason, to include a strong performance at the Combine. I think Etienne could find a role as a receiving back, but I have seen nothing yet to convince me he has a future as an every-down back in the NFL. As far as Fantasy value goes, he will need to carve out more than just an occasional rotational receiving back role. He is certainly on my radar, but he has a lot to prove.

I think you are both way to down on him.

Jeremiah is saying he's a locked in day two pick. Even before this week he was projected as a mid round pick. Success was the term you used and that's a subjective term but I think he's going to have a role and a future for sure.

If Etienne gets drafted on Day 2, that is huge. He definitely helped his cause last week, and I have always believed he has the talent to succeed. I hope you are right.

 

[travdogg]

Landing spot and draft capital matters for all of these players but exponentially so for RB's so whatever I think of these players today you can ball up and trash after the NFL draft.

This is so true. It makes you wonder why we go through the motions.

And sometimes I don't even know what to make of the landing spots. Bucky Irving? Little mid-round guy going into Rachaad White's house, the guy who gets used like crazy even with 3.6 yards per carry? Surprise, surprise.

I'm not sure Irving was a surprise. Did anyone real feel good about White and his extreme ineffectiveness? Irving (and Achane the year before) was on almost every team I drafted, both because I thought he was underrated, and because the roadblock wasn't much.

I'm not sure Etienne has an NFL future.

It's hard to make a case for him having success in the NFL.

These are some pretty strong takes relative the week he just had and feedback others are saying about him.

Fair point. He is coming off a solid week leading up to the Senior Bowl, even being named the Top RB. I want to see Etienne string some successes together this offseason, to include a strong performance at the Combine. I think Etienne could find a role as a receiving back, but I have seen nothing yet to convince me he has a future as an every-down back in the NFL. As far as Fantasy value goes, he will need to carve out more than just an occasional rotational receiving back role. He is certainly on my radar, but he has a lot to prove.

I think you are both way to down on him.

Jeremiah is saying he's a locked in day two pick. Even before this week he was projected as a mid round pick. Success was the term you used and that's a subjective term but I think he's going to have a role and a future for sure.

Its possible I'm being pedantic, but I took the question as what you think they'll do, not where they'll be drafted. I've watched Etienne a lot and never been impressed If some team uses a day 2 pick on him, that doesn't make me feel I misjudged him, it makes me think that team screwed up. Right now, there are at 10-15 RBs I like more in this class.

 

[travdogg]

Sampson by a lot, I REALLY like Sampson. I think he looks like another James Cook. I like him over Judkins too.

You may be right on Sampson. Gutsy to take him over Judkins, but those are the kinds of winning moves you have to be willing to make if you believe.

I feel like I could argue Sampson as high as RB3. Just really impresses me. I think he's a much better prospect than Jaylen Wright was a year ago, and Sampson will still be only 20 years old when week 1 starts. 5-11 200, and likely in the 4.35 range. I think he's the player people think TreVeyon Henderson is.

 

[menobrown]

Its possible I'm being pedantic, but I took the question as what you think they'll do, not where they'll be drafted.

Was not a question of where they'd be drafted. Like I said I just think it's a bold take, maybe to strong of a take IMO, to conclude a RB who is being discussed as going that high is one you can't see an NFL future. Even if we are talking a 4th round that's a lot to say IMO. I also don't agree, but that's another subject.

 

[Willie Mays Hayes]

I have done exactly the same. I was buying into Fannin's production, but Senior Bowl week opened my eyes. I now have Arroyo and Taylor neck-and-neck.

I watched some of those Senior Bowl routes by Fannin. He runs sort of funny for a TE. He didn't quite look like a plus athlete like I thought he would given the hype. He also isn't manhandling smaller defensive backs. Just makes me wonder if his impressive stats in a smaller program are going to translate onto the biggest stage in football. If he doesn't get separation and isn't elite at contested catches, he's going to be a JAG in the NFL.

 

[socrates]

I have done exactly the same. I was buying into Fannin's production, but Senior Bowl week opened my eyes. I now have Arroyo and Taylor neck-and-neck.

I watched some of those Senior Bowl routes by Fannin. He runs sort of funny for a TE. He didn't quite look like a plus athlete like I thought he would given the hype. He also isn't manhandling smaller defensive backs. Just makes me wonder if his impressive stats in a smaller program are going to translate onto the biggest stage in football. If he doesn't get separation and isn't elite at contested catches, he's going to be a JAG in the NFL.

This is exactly where I am at. Prior to Senior Bowl week, I had Fannin ahead of Arroyo and Mason. He has dropped a tier below them now. The production is impressive, but small-school production is not always a good predictor of NFL success. Fannin's Combine performance will be key.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I view Fannin as an inferior Pitts, and Pitts has yet to really “boom”. I plan on letting someone else take the plunge on him unless he falls in my lap later than expected and is in a plus environment.

 

[menobrown]

Fannin's Combine performance will be key.

The Senior Bowl uses GPS technology and it measures mph, acceleration, deceleration and explosive efforts(zero idea how this is defined).

He crushed it. Led all of the 10 TE's in every single one of those categories.

 

[pinkstapler]

I view Fannin as an inferior Pitts, and Pitts has yet to really “boom”. I plan on letting someone else take the plunge on him unless he falls in my lap later than expected and is in a plus environment.

I know it's super early and might not have a real answer yet, and almost definitely one that will change in the next month or two: but where would you consider "falling in your lap"? Late 2nd round of rookie drafts? I'm just in the process myself and making my first placements and trying to get down to end of round three as I keep trucking through scouting. Right now I'm landing with Fannin around mid to late 2nd myself. Mocks are all over the place so I've seen him early second all the way to mid third.

Do agree his landing spot make a big difference. At least more than the other 3 big TEs to me.

 

[Unwrittenlaw]

Would you rather (Dynasty Rookie Edition)

This is a February Rookie Price Check. Obviously, things will change drastically between now and the Draft, but I am curious about your early thoughts on these prospects.

QB

Cam Ward or Shedeur Sanders?

Cam Ward by a lot. Sanders is a massive Vince Young bust.

RB

Kaleb Johnson or Quinshon Judkins?

I don't really liike neither. Kaleb Johnson is like Mendenhall all over again. And Judkins is Ronnie Brown. And Treyveon Henderson is Cadillac.

Devin Neal or Dylan Sampson

Like Sampson a lot quite a bit. His production against good SEC teams was key.

Trevor Etienne or Damien Martinez

Neither

WR:

Luther Burden or Emeka Egbuka?

Neither.

Tre Harris or Jayden Higgins or Elic Ayomanor?

I don't like neither. The late rd WR I like is RIcky White..

TE:

Elijah Arroyo or Mason Taylor or Harold Fannin, Jr.?


Fannin by quite a bit. I like that he was the #1 receiver for his team and was the main focus of the opponents' defense.

 

[rockaction]

I'll chime in and see if I can't keep this thread bumped. I promised to check back in, so here goes.

QB

No idea. If I knew I'd be making tens of millions of dollars telling NFL teams what I know about QBs. Those guys can't do it either, so I'm not even going to pretend.

RB

I base these off of highlights and "tape." I want to see how these guys move. Is it a great process? No. But it helps eliminate some guys I think have no shot (I'm decent at that) and guys I think that are underrated that will get a shot or capitalize on their shot (I'm a little less good at that). With that in mind, I like

Judkins over Johnson - I do not think Johnson moves well or explosively enough for the NFL when he gets into space
Neal over Sampson - I like both more than Johnson, even

I haven't studied enough Etienne, but I like Martinez here a bit.

WR

Egbuka over Burden - Nothing about Burden excites me. I'll admit to shirt scouting a bit on Egbuka, but I like him.
Ayomanor over Higgins and Harris - I have to watch more of Harris, so consider this Ayomanor over Higgins. I just liked his body control and speed better.

TE

I have no idea and will watch these guys, but I'm never sure what to look for at TE. I defer to scouts in these cases. We don't get highlights of their all-important blocking, so you really have to watch full games to get an appreciation. I probably wouldn't waste a draft pick on them unless they're plummeting in the dynasty draft I'm in.

Why? Because there are still second-year and third-year guys in the pros that haven't gotten their shot yet that will likely have similar skill sets and be just as good. TE is a crapshoot. Bowers is sui generis. I won't chase him. Just think of Kyle Pitts and all the wasted first-round picks (some guy took him 1.01 in one of my leagues that offers no PPR, and it sunk his team for two or three years doing that). I'll pass unless they're hanging around at the beginning of the third or end of the second even in TE Prem, which one of my leagues is.

And can I say something about TE Prem? It sucks. It offers no remedy to the TE conundrum that fantasy faces. Read the work done on that by the guy in The Athletic. It's interesting (I can't remember his name, so pardon me). It doesn't elevate the position as a whole; all it does it elevate a few guys to unicorn status in the league, which isn't really fair for anyone. It causes you to spend draft capital chasing, and that's no fun.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Why? Because there are still second-year and third-year guys in the pros that haven't gotten their shot yet that will likely have similar skill sets and be just as good. TE is a crapshoot. Bowers is sui generis. I won't chase him. Just think of Kyle Pitts and all the wasted first-round picks (some guy took him 1.01 in one of my leagues that offers no PPR, and it sunk his team for two or three years doing that). I'll pass unless they're hanging around at the beginning of the third or end of the second even in TE Prem, which one of my leagues is.

And can I say something about TE Prem? It sucks. It offers no remedy to the TE conundrum that fantasy faces. Read the work done on that by the guy in The Athletic. It's interesting (I can't remember his name, so pardon me). It doesn't elevate the position as a whole; all it does it elevate a few guys to unicorn status in the league, which isn't really fair for anyone. It causes you to spend draft capital chasing, and that's no fun.

Excellent points on TE, I completely agree.

 

[Soulfly3]

Higgins gonna make some of you regret your choices, real bad.

 

[JohnnyU]

An interesting choice is between Higgins and Royals. I favor Royals. I also favor Henderson over Judkins over Johnson. I would like to have Neal in some leagues with a 2nd round pick. The big outlier is obviously Hunter. If he was projected to go mid 1st instead of early 1st, then perhaps he was planning to play WR more. Since he's entering the combine primarily as a DB and projected to go 1.2 to the Browns, I can see him fall into the 2nd round of rookie drafts. At that point he's worth the lower cost risk. What if he looks at the money the WRs are making vs all the DBs except for a couple and says, yeah, I'd like to be making at least 15M per year. As it is today, no way on God's green earth do you take him early in a rookie draft, even though that's were he would be taken if he was going to primarily be a WR, which he isn't. He simply won't play enough WR to make it worth the risk in the 1st round of a rookie draft IMO.

Edit to add: I probably won't be faced with the decision of Hampton vs Henderson, but if I were, to me it isn't so cut and dry and some think, with Hampton being favored. Assuming both land in a good situation. Hypothetical, Hampton to Pittsburgh and Henderson to the Chargers.

 

[pinkstapler]

I'll chime in and see if I can't keep this thread bumped. I promised to check back in, so here goes.

QB

No idea. If I knew I'd be making tens of millions of dollars telling NFL teams what I know about QBs. Those guys can't do it either, so I'm not even going to pretend.

RB

I base these off of highlights and "tape." I want to see how these guys move. Is it a great process? No. But it helps eliminate some guys I think have no shot (I'm decent at that) and guys I think that are underrated that will get a shot or capitalize on their shot (I'm a little less good at that). With that in mind, I like

Judkins over Johnson - I do not think Johnson moves well or explosively enough for the NFL when he gets into space
Neal over Sampson - I like both more than Johnson, even

I haven't studied enough Etienne, but I like Martinez here a bit.

WR

Egbuka over Burden - Nothing about Burden excites me. I'll admit to shirt scouting a bit on Egbuka, but I like him.
Ayomanor over Higgins and Harris - I have to watch more of Harris, so consider this Ayomanor over Higgins. I just liked his body control and speed better.

TE

I have no idea and will watch these guys, but I'm never sure what to look for at TE. I defer to scouts in these cases. We don't get highlights of their all-important blocking, so you really have to watch full games to get an appreciation. I probably wouldn't waste a draft pick on them, unless they're plummeting in the dynasty draft I'm in.

Why? Because there are still second-year and third-year guys in the pros that haven't gotten their shot yet that will likely have similar skill sets and be just as good. TE is a crapshoot. Bowers is sui generis. I won't chase him. Just think of Kyle Pitts and all the wasted first-round picks (some guy took him 1.01 in one of my leagues that offers no PPR, and it sunk his team for two or three years doing that). I'll pass unless they're hanging around at the beginning of the third or end of the second even in TE Prem, which one of my leagues is.

And can I say something about TE Prem? It sucks. It offers no remedy to the TE conundrum that fantasy faces. Read the work done on that by the guy in The Athletic. It's interesting (I can't remember his name, so pardon me). It doesn't elevate the position as a whole; all it does it elevate a few guys to unicorn status in the league, which isn't really fair for anyone. It causes you to spend draft capital chasing, and that's no fun.

Liked the post for the content. Changed it to a love for the bolded. 1000% agree on TE premium. Fun experiment I've done when leaguemates have pushed me hard to switch over our existing leagues to a TEP format: say "OK but then we will obviously have to remove all tight ends from all the rosters and do a supplemental draft so no one comes into it with an unfair advantage." You'll get one of two responses in my experience "Never mind" or "Wait what?! How is that fair!?". The latter are people I try not to play in leagues with anymore when possible.

 

[menobrown]

And can I say something about TE Prem? It sucks. It offers no remedy to the TE conundrum that fantasy faces. Read the work done on that by the guy in The Athletic. It's interesting (I can't remember his name, so pardon me). It doesn't elevate the position as a whole; all it does it elevate a few guys to unicorn status in the league, which isn't really fair for anyone. It causes you to spend draft capital chasing, and that's no fun.

I go the other way on this. Big fan of TEP, do think it elevates the position as it enhances their ability to be more flex worthy and in general feel like it adds to strategy.

That strategy can cut both ways fwiw and I've seen all types of strategies work and fail. To be clear what I'm saying is I've seen people totally ignore the TE position in TEP formats and some people horde them. Have seen success and failure with both approaches.

 

[rockaction]

And can I say something about TE Prem? It sucks. It offers no remedy to the TE conundrum that fantasy faces. Read the work done on that by the guy in The Athletic. It's interesting (I can't remember his name, so pardon me). It doesn't elevate the position as a whole; all it does it elevate a few guys to unicorn status in the league, which isn't really fair for anyone. It causes you to spend draft capital chasing, and that's no fun.

I go the other way on this. Big fan of TEP, do think it elevates the position as it enhances their ability to be more flex worthy and in general feel like it adds to strategy.

That strategy can cut both ways fwiw and I've seen all types of strategies work and fail. To be clear what I'm saying is I've seen people totally ignore the TE position in TEP formats and some people horde them. Have seen success and failure with both approaches.

I can see your points, especially about being more flex-worthy than otherwise.

Here's The Athletic article I was talking about. Interesting stuff, and it follows my conclusion from his aside that I read recently. It's that it only elevates already high-scoring TEs.

I’m sick of Tight End premium scoring… and here’s why

Considering giving a boost to tight ends in your league to get them up and even with WRs and RBs? Don't do it, says Jake Ciely!

www.nytimes.com

"My main problem (in addition to the artificial inflation) is that it mainly gives the top-end tight ends a bigger gap over the rest of the position and doesn’t do much to make the value of tight ends more equitable to other positions." - Jake Ciely

I especially hate TEP because my league decided to switch and not give everyone a year, thereby boosting people who had those few coveted TEs with a windfall and giving the shaft to those of us that had punted at the position.

 

[JohnnyU]

And can I say something about TE Prem? It sucks. It offers no remedy to the TE conundrum that fantasy faces. Read the work done on that by the guy in The Athletic. It's interesting (I can't remember his name, so pardon me). It doesn't elevate the position as a whole; all it does it elevate a few guys to unicorn status in the league, which isn't really fair for anyone. It causes you to spend draft capital chasing, and that's no fun.

I go the other way on this. Big fan of TEP, do think it elevates the position as it enhances their ability to be more flex worthy and in general feel like it adds to strategy.

That strategy can cut both ways fwiw and I've seen all types of strategies work and fail. To be clear what I'm saying is I've seen people totally ignore the TE position in TEP formats and some people horde them. Have seen success and failure with both approaches.

I can see your points, especially about being more flex-worthy than otherwise.

Here's The Athletic article I was talking about. Interesting stuff, and it follows my conclusion from his aside that I read recently. It's that it only elevates already high-scoring TEs.

I’m sick of Tight End premium scoring… and here’s why

Considering giving a boost to tight ends in your league to get them up and even with WRs and RBs? Don't do it, says Jake Ciely!

www.nytimes.com

"My main problem (in addition to the artificial inflation) is that it mainly gives the top-end tight ends a bigger gap over the rest of the position and doesn’t do much to make the value of tight ends more equitable to other positions." - Jake Ciely

I especially hate TEP because my league decided to switch and not give everyone a year, thereby boosting people with a windfall and those of us that had punted at the position the shaft.

As a commish, if a scoriing change was voted in, I would never implement it until a decided upon date in the future. Whether that is one year out or more, but certainly enough time for everyone to adjust their roster to accomondate the change that is satisfiable to everyone.

 

[rockaction]

And can I say something about TE Prem? It sucks. It offers no remedy to the TE conundrum that fantasy faces. Read the work done on that by the guy in The Athletic. It's interesting (I can't remember his name, so pardon me). It doesn't elevate the position as a whole; all it does it elevate a few guys to unicorn status in the league, which isn't really fair for anyone. It causes you to spend draft capital chasing, and that's no fun.

I go the other way on this. Big fan of TEP, do think it elevates the position as it enhances their ability to be more flex worthy and in general feel like it adds to strategy.

That strategy can cut both ways fwiw and I've seen all types of strategies work and fail. To be clear what I'm saying is I've seen people totally ignore the TE position in TEP formats and some people horde them. Have seen success and failure with both approaches.

I can see your points, especially about being more flex-worthy than otherwise.

Here's The Athletic article I was talking about. Interesting stuff, and it follows my conclusion from his aside that I read recently. It's that it only elevates already high-scoring TEs.

I’m sick of Tight End premium scoring… and here’s why

Considering giving a boost to tight ends in your league to get them up and even with WRs and RBs? Don't do it, says Jake Ciely!

www.nytimes.com

"My main problem (in addition to the artificial inflation) is that it mainly gives the top-end tight ends a bigger gap over the rest of the position and doesn’t do much to make the value of tight ends more equitable to other positions." - Jake Ciely

I especially hate TEP because my league decided to switch and not give everyone a year, thereby boosting people with a windfall and those of us that had punted at the position the shaft.

As a commish, if a scoriing change was voted in, I would never implement it until a decided upon date in the future. Whether that is one year out or more, but certainly enough time for everyone to adjust their roster to accomondate the change that is satisfiable to everyone.

Well, there's a mitigating factor. This is Zealots. Nobody is benefitting unjustly in any monetary sense. But it's also not like one individual league was affected. They didn't give people a year to adjust, which I figured would be the case. And by the time they decided, I had no picks because that's how my team was constructed. They did the same thing at DT. I was not happy, but these people aren't benefitting in any way from their commissionering and admin positions. And they're volunteering. They've got enough on their plate. Left me in a lurch, though. If it was for serious money, I might have left the league.

 

[menobrown]

I can see your points, especially about being more flex-worthy than otherwise.

Yes, I've only played TEP in FFPC which has dual flex and it changes things for sure but....

"My main problem (in addition to the artificial inflation) is that it mainly gives the top-end tight ends a bigger gap over the rest of the position and doesn’t do much to make the value of tight ends more equitable to other positions." - Jake Ciely

I'm not sure how he arrived at the bolded conclusion?

So many ways this could be looked at but one way is in a regular PPR Format in PPG the top 4 TE's would come in as player 24, 33, 35 and 56 among all RB's, WR's and TE's. In a TEP format like FFPC these same 4 come in at 8, 12, 13 and 32.


When you combine this with dual flex it makes TEs' flex worthy which is a lot more rare to have a flex worthy TE, at least a strong flex worthy option, in a regular PPR.

All this leads into what I view as extra strategy. In a regular PPR league I'm generally just going to blow off TE, never plan on starting two, realize there won't be a whole lot of point difference after you get past the few top TE's. I don't play many leagues in this format, it's kind of boring to me, just a RB and WR grab in most of the early rounds.

I do agree with you that identifying rookie TE's in a crapshoot with low success odds on using premium picks. But like you alluded to when you hit on one it's huge. Where you would view this as something you don't like, chasing that stud TE, I would view as somethign I like as it adds a different approach or strategy.

All that being said I've for sure been watching games and see some TE's catching a slew of empty 5-10 yard curls and racking up a ton of fantasy points and feel like "this ain't right". Guess every format has some kind of flaw and I'd for sure hate to see a league of mine make a scoring change witout at least year head's up.

 

[Crippler]

I can see your points, especially about being more flex-worthy than otherwise.

Yes, I've only played TEP in FFPC which has dual flex and it changes things for sure but....

"My main problem (in addition to the artificial inflation) is that it mainly gives the top-end tight ends a bigger gap over the rest of the position and doesn’t do much to make the value of tight ends more equitable to other positions." - Jake Ciely

I'm not sure how he arrived at the bolded conclusion?

So many ways this could be looked at but one way is in a regular PPR Format in PPG the top 4 TE's would come in as player 24, 33, 35 and 56 among all RB's, WR's and TE's. In a TEP format like FFPC these same 4 come in at 8, 12, 13 and 32.


When you combine this with dual flex it makes TEs' flex worthy which is a lot more rare to have a flex worthy TE, at least a strong flex worthy option, in a regular PPR.

All this leads into what I view as extra strategy. In a regular PPR league I'm generally just going to blow off TE, never plan on starting two, realize there won't be a whole lot of point difference after you get past the few top TE's. I don't play many leagues in this format, it's kind of boring to me, just a RB and WR grab in most of the early rounds.

I do agree with you that identifying rookie TE's in a crapshoot with low success odds on using premium picks. But like you alluded to when you hit on one it's huge. Where you would view this as something you don't like, chasing that stud TE, I would view as somethign I like as it adds a different approach or strategy.

All that being said I've for sure been watching games and see some TE's catching a slew of empty 5-10 yard curls and racking up a ton of fantasy points and feel like "this ain't right". Guess every format has some kind of flaw and I'd for sure hate to see a league of mine make a scoring change witout at least year head's up.

Did TEP screw up going with extra for receptions instead of doing yardage. My home league has so much flex and like all positions being pretty equal

In the NFL it goes QB and than talent. In drafts yo7 could see Warren as top skill player and thus should reflect in fantasy. Jeanty and McMillan in discussion. Loveland Burden battling for 4-5 probably. Matters which mock looking at who goes 1st.

Back to other
8-100 = 26 or 28.
8-50 = 21 or 18
3-50 = 13 or 11
3-20 = 8 or 7

Since most are catches over yardage, wish I had gone yardage instead. Not much different but takes some sting out, that owners feel. An owner with Stroud, Young, C. Brown, Tracy, McConkey, Dell, Bowers, LaPorta, Kelce, Kraft, Pinerio and avg IDP made it to finals thanks to those TE. Only 2 pts less in SF and still wins. Not sure of season impact. But takes those 1 for 5 yards as less impact.

 

[massraider]

Fannin better perform terribly at the Combine for me to put guys like Arroyo in front of him. If he tests anything around decent, that's fine with me.

Lower level of competition, OK.
Looks almost gawky when he runs, for sure.

He was gawking his way down the field for 117 catches. Half of the QBs passing yards went to him. The other team focused on taking him away. 117 catches, 10 TDs. Arroyo was like the 5th option in that MIA offense.

Also:
At Penn St: 11/137/1
At Texas A&M: 8/145/1


Also, everyone who voted for Tyler Warren over him for the Mackey should have voting privileges revoked, across the board. They shouldn't be allowed to vote for leadership on a condo board. He averaged 42 yards more per game than Warren, and had 200 yards in his bowl game.

 

[JohnnyU]

Fannin better perform terribly at the Combine for me to put guys like Arroyo in front of him. If he tests anything around decent, that's fine with me.

Lower level of competition, OK.
Looks almost gawky when he runs, for sure.

He was gawking his way down the field for 117 catches. Half of the QBs passing yards went to him. The other team focused on taking him away. 117 catches, 10 TDs. Arroyo was like the 5th option in that MIA offense.

Also:
At Penn St: 11/137/1
At Texas A&M: 8/145/1


Also, everyone who voted for Tyler Warren over him for the Mackey should have voting privileges revoked, across the board. They shouldn't be allowed to vote for leadership on a condo board. He averaged 42 yards more per game than Warren, and had 200 yards in his bowl game.

I believe some like Arroyo over Fannin as of today, but in most mocks I see Fannin going before him. However, Arroyo is picking up some steam. Fannin's light frame (6'4" 230) may keep him off the field more than I would like for fantasy.

 

[titusbramble]

Ward, Judkins, Burden, don't know enough about the rest at this point of research

 

[JohnnyU]

I found this video very interesting if you're an analytics guy / gal. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntg9G8S4zCE
In order to get the full gist of it you have to pay attention and follow what he is saying. This is not a glance over video. I see some flaws, but I also see some things that make sense. Overall it is a good video if you give it your full attention. If you're not an analytics person, this is probably not for you, but you could still benefit if you give it your full attention. If you are an analytics person, you will probably love this video.