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WR Amari Cooper, BUF (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
The Frankman
Footballguy
Baker needs to get Cooper as his main target Day 1. Cooper was already unhappy about largely being phased out on the Cowboys.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Then he’s going to absolutely love Mayfield‘s utter lack of accuracy that chased OBJ out of town. This is potentially a disaster waiting to happen.
Honestly I’m not sure why the Browns took on a $20 million cap hit instead of just waiting for the Cowboys to cut him. The Browns did the Cowboys a significant favor here.
IMO they should’ve paid Kirk the 15 million a year instead.
Cooper is a much better route runner than Beckham was. He'll be a better fit with Mayfield. He'll also be the clear #1 which he wasn't in Dallas.
Kirk shouldn't be getting 15 mill from anyone. He's never shown the ability to be anything more than a #2/#3 weapon.
Much rather have Cooper and 20 than Kirk for 15. The trade signaled to me, that with WR desperation high(especially if Kirk gets 15 and MVS gets 10) that if Cooper hit the open market he would have been getting more than 20.
ETA: I personally think they should have just kept Landry, and drafted a compliment to him.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Agreed about the route running, but this offense hasn't been built to suppprt a #1. It also needs a more dynamic talent than Landry. The spacing Cooper creates that Landry can't will open up more space for everyone else. I'd like to have him back at a reduced rate, but highly doubt he takes it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’ve seen you defending Mayfield quite a bit on here lately - I’m not sure this part is accurate. I watched quite a few game-film examples of OBJ running great routes with Mayfielf flat out missing him, or worse, not seeing him when he’s been open.
I think OBJ is every bit as good a route runner as Cooper.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
prediction: sky high expectations for AC, and by proxy, preseason FF writers will hype up/project Mayfield to have a career year, only to see disappointment for both players in 2022.
AC knee-jerk projection: 67 receptions, 770 yards, 6 TD. Misses 4 games to a strained [insert body part here]
I’m not an AC hater at all. I just don’t see this going well. I don’t see Mayfeld as an above average QB, and I don’t think AC changes that. And he’s going to miss Landry.
AC knee-jerk projection: 67 receptions, 770 yards, 6 TD. Misses 4 games to a strained [insert body part here]
I’m not an AC hater at all. I just don’t see this going well. I don’t see Mayfeld as an above average QB, and I don’t think AC changes that. And he’s going to miss Landry.
Agreed that Cooper is more dynamic than Landry. I just hope this doesn't stop them from spending a 1st or 2nd round pick on a WR.
I think Beckham is maybe the most overrated WR in the NFL. I think he freelanced a bunch when he wasn't supposed to and lost Mayfield's trust a bit. Mayfield's accuracy was pretty good to every other WR on the team.
Beckham had a solid run with the Rams, where he was facing #2 and #3 CBs. But its not like he was any better than Woods or Cooks were with the Rams.
I think you'd be in the large minority thinking Beckham is anywhere near Cooper in the route running department. Not even knocking Beckham, but Cooper is a top-5 route runner in the NFL.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Another WR for Baker to ruin for fantasy 
Hope Amari enjoys a boatload of targets that aren't thrown within 5 yards of him.....
Hope Amari enjoys a boatload of targets that aren't thrown within 5 yards of him.....
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This.Another WR for Baker to ruin for fantasy
Hope Amari enjoys a boatload of targets that aren't thrown within 5 yards of him.....
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
and Mayfielf is probably a bottom 10 QB at hitting his intermediate to deep routes.
He’ll pepper Landry & his TEs for 2-15 all day long.
Watching him try to hit a receiver in stride, or go deep to a receiver in coverage is woeful.
As the saying goes - “time will tell”.
I’m avoiding AC in redraft for 2022, and if I had him in Dynasty I’d wait for the 1st hype-riddled “they have a great connection in camp!” story to come out, then sell as high as possible.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Never say never, but I'd be shocked if a wr isn't picked in the top 50. An add like Cooper was just necessary so being married to picking one at 13 could be removed from the table.
habsfan
Footballguy
jm192
Footballguy
Dak Preskott>Baker.
Cowboys passing offense>Cleveland
Everyone wants to rush to say “Baker is better than you realize.” Maybe. But he’s not as good as Dak.
I don’t think Cooper is an elite/superstar WR that’s going to carry the Brown’s passing attack to new heights.
I'd agree Beckham was very unhappy. I don't think Cooper necessarily will be. I actually don't think his workload will be much different than it was in Dallas. Right now, I'd guess he'll go for:
70-80 catches
1000-1100 yards
6-8 TD's
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m not sure Cooper is still that guy. We’ll see I guess. I like Cooper - I’m just not sure this is a good landing spot.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
habsfan
Footballguy
I took Lamb in redraft last year, speculating he would take that "1A" role by the throat. That he didn't has left me somewhat cautious about assuming he will do that now.
-OZ-
Footballguy
we can probably agree that most people would be unhappy in Cleveland.
schultz too. They seem to really like him.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
it was?Baker has been bottom 5 in the league in completion percentage every season since he was drafted. And most of that with one of the best O-lines in the league to stand behind.
The Browns are a Super Bowl quality team everywhere except QB.
Baker will be gone after this year almost assuredly unless he has some miracle Ryan Tannehill career revival, so we don't really know who Cooper's QB will be long term.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Past this season cooper has no guaranteed money for 2023 and 2024 when he could earn 20 million per year.
He will be plenty happy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I wonder what his completion percentage would be if he didnt have 5 balls batted down every dang game.
Baker has been bottom 5 in the league in completion percentage every season since he was drafted. And most of that with one of the best O-lines in the league to stand behind.
The Browns are a Super Bowl quality team everywhere except QB.
Baker will be gone after this year almost assuredly unless he has some miracle Ryan Tannehill career revival, so we don't really know who Cooper's QB will be long term.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
This.
Why I'm amazed they've not tried for any of these QBs available and will saddle themselves with another year of Baker holding them back.
They seem resigned to just sticking with him for yet another year. FN bizarre
"Bounce back" Baker!!!! ..... to being a mediocre QB!!!
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It’s that sexy “5th year option” where they get to see if he reeeaally is that bad for relatively cheap.
Meanwhile the Browns championship window has dwindled year after year.
But hey, maybe there’s a chance Mayfield isn’t as bad as he’s been. His entire career.
This extreme Mayfield hatred is so weird to me.
2018=He has the best rookie season in the history of the position. Sure, Herbert would top it 2 years later, but its still really important.
2019=Regresses under a Head Coach who couldn't have been further over his head.
2020=Starts hot, has a slight lull in the middle with a bad game against Pitsburgh, and a game against Houston where he only completes 12 passes in 60+ MPH winds. Then finishes the season playing at a Pro Bowl level other than the Jets game where the entire WR room gets COVID. Still a huge step forward.
2021=Starts off really well, but suffers a major injury, Should have gone on IR, but continues to play through it. Keeps playing pretty well, other than 1 blip game against the Vikings, before getting hurt more against Arizona. Misses a game, and clearly looks not healthy upon return. Struggles against the Steelers again, but torches the Bengals. Gets even more banged up in bad loss to NE, and its beyond clear he's nowhere near healthy. Has one more ok game against the Ravens, but misses another game, and has bad games(doubly so because both are nationally televised) against GB and Pit, before finally being shutdown as they are eliminated from the playoffs.
Matt Hasselbeck said when Mayfield got hurt, that he'd had the same injury in his career, and wasn't even able to practice for almost 2 months. Mayfield played through it, and while you can argue he shouldn't have, that isn't on him, its on Stefanski.
Still, this whole, "Mayfield is the problem!" thing seems so short sighted to me. He's been really good 2 of his 4 seasons. Under the circumstances, I'd argue he was decent last year, and perhaps that season should be thrown out as he shouldn't have been playing. 2020 is a lot more relevant to me than 2021 is.
Its obvious Mayfield and Beckham were never on the same page. Beckham deserves his share of blame for that. It wasn't a coincidence Mayfield was better without him, even though it seemed like it at the time. Cooper is a much different WR than Beckham, a better one in general in my opinion, but also a better fit for Mayfield. He's a better route runner, he's a more team first player(I know he complained about not seeing enough balls 1 time, but that's nothing) and he's getting a healthier version of Mayfield.
I'm optimistic Cooper will be a top-20 WR in Cleveland, and he'll likely be drafted quite a bit later, due to recency bias of both him and Mayfield. He'll be a middling WR3 on draft day I bet. Maybe even a WR4 in smaller leagues, or for people (like myself) who tend to go WR heavy.
I'm not arguing Mayfield is some elite QB that everyone is missing out on, just that he's not bad. There are 32 starting QBs in this league. I'd put Mayfield in the 16-20 range.
2018=He has the best rookie season in the history of the position. Sure, Herbert would top it 2 years later, but its still really important.
2019=Regresses under a Head Coach who couldn't have been further over his head.
2020=Starts hot, has a slight lull in the middle with a bad game against Pitsburgh, and a game against Houston where he only completes 12 passes in 60+ MPH winds. Then finishes the season playing at a Pro Bowl level other than the Jets game where the entire WR room gets COVID. Still a huge step forward.
2021=Starts off really well, but suffers a major injury, Should have gone on IR, but continues to play through it. Keeps playing pretty well, other than 1 blip game against the Vikings, before getting hurt more against Arizona. Misses a game, and clearly looks not healthy upon return. Struggles against the Steelers again, but torches the Bengals. Gets even more banged up in bad loss to NE, and its beyond clear he's nowhere near healthy. Has one more ok game against the Ravens, but misses another game, and has bad games(doubly so because both are nationally televised) against GB and Pit, before finally being shutdown as they are eliminated from the playoffs.
Matt Hasselbeck said when Mayfield got hurt, that he'd had the same injury in his career, and wasn't even able to practice for almost 2 months. Mayfield played through it, and while you can argue he shouldn't have, that isn't on him, its on Stefanski.
Still, this whole, "Mayfield is the problem!" thing seems so short sighted to me. He's been really good 2 of his 4 seasons. Under the circumstances, I'd argue he was decent last year, and perhaps that season should be thrown out as he shouldn't have been playing. 2020 is a lot more relevant to me than 2021 is.
Its obvious Mayfield and Beckham were never on the same page. Beckham deserves his share of blame for that. It wasn't a coincidence Mayfield was better without him, even though it seemed like it at the time. Cooper is a much different WR than Beckham, a better one in general in my opinion, but also a better fit for Mayfield. He's a better route runner, he's a more team first player(I know he complained about not seeing enough balls 1 time, but that's nothing) and he's getting a healthier version of Mayfield.
I'm optimistic Cooper will be a top-20 WR in Cleveland, and he'll likely be drafted quite a bit later, due to recency bias of both him and Mayfield. He'll be a middling WR3 on draft day I bet. Maybe even a WR4 in smaller leagues, or for people (like myself) who tend to go WR heavy.
I'm not arguing Mayfield is some elite QB that everyone is missing out on, just that he's not bad. There are 32 starting QBs in this league. I'd put Mayfield in the 16-20 range.
Dak in 38 games before he got Amari broken down per game:
19.52 completions on 29.47 attempts for 214 yards, 7.26 yp, 1.36 TD's per game.
Baker Mayfield in 60 career games:
19.75 competions on 32 attempts for 235 yards, 7.34 per attempt and 1.6 TD's per game.
Baker led, granted by a tiny amount, in every key statistical category that aides his pass catchers rack up fantasy stats which is completions, yards, yardage per attempt and TD's per game.
Baker was horrendous last year and but he was also so beat up that I recently read a quote an article that polled some front office/coaches and one of them said that Baker was so tough you could cut his johnson off and he'd not complain. So who knows and those numbers are still included above but he was not so horrendous the previous year in Stefanski's system. Maybe he stinks again even if he's healthy but before we write him off I just think it's fair to say that before Dak got Amari he was not any better statistically as a passer and you could easily say that that Dak took off as a passer to the game that Amari arrived.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Cowboys must have been pissed at Cooper. He must have refused to take a pay cut so they sent him to the Siberia of the NFL. 
And for a 5th rounder. 
And for a 5th rounder.
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jm192
Footballguy
It’s a neat way to look at it. But 38 games is a short time span. It seems you give most of the credit for Dak’s improvement to Amari and little to none to Dak. Do we think that’s who Dak is without Amari? Or did Dak improve/evolve into being a better QB? Sure, having better receivers helps. But comparing Dak’s first 38 vs Bakers first 60 isn’t apples to apples. You took the least experience part of Dak’s career, which obviously makes a differencr.
Amari has never hit 1200 yards. He‘S never hit double digit TD’s. He is a WR1. A pretty good one at that. He’s not in the elite class that “makes” a QB IMO. Guys that do that…typically have better stats.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
To be fair he does live in their stadium which makes it convenient to keep him around.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
People correctly observing that he’s been objectively terrible for years after a promising rookie season = hatred?
oooookay.
Mayfield has most definitely been A problem. Whether he’s THE problem is another question.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He also gets dinged up seemingly more and more, and IIRC historically does not play well through injury (though he does try, to his credit)
I think he used to be a WR1, or at least had the potential to be. I’m not so sure he’s still a WR1. And I’m way less convinced that he will be with the Browns.
Anyone saying Mayfield was objectively terrible in 2020 is lying to themselves. If that was terrible, then half the NFL needs new QBs.People correctly observing that he’s been objectively terrible for years after a promising rookie season = hatred?
oooookay.
Mayfield has most definitely been A problem. Whether he’s THE problem is another question.
Again, not saying Mayfield has been some elite player, but he's not Sam Darnold.
If I used first 38 games of Baker's career the gap between them would have been more glaring but then I'd have been accussed of cherry picking.
My point is that Dak's was putting up meager passing stats pretty much up until the game Amari arrived so you can say Amari did not help him but that's one heck of a coincidence.
jm192
Footballguy
I think having better receivers helps, don't get me wrong.
But I think Dak continued to progress into an elite QB. Cooper gave him a legit WR1. But Cooper isn't some superstar Elite WR that makes a QB. Dak will still have Lamb and likely Gallup.
Will Baker be better because of Cooper? Probably. But to the extent he's putting up the same numbers as Dak? Doubtful.
Time will tell what happens with Coopers ADP. But "good" receivers changing teams and going to play with a less productive QB always scare me.
Amari Cooper has never hit 1200 yards. I don't think he's going to hit it for the first time as a Brown. I don't think he's going to see a big jump in TD's--and almost expect his TD's to drop a smidge. I think ~75 catches, 1000 yards and 5-6 TD's is about where he'll land. Which is fine. But it's also Brandin Cooks numbers. If he costs what Brandin Cooks did this past season--great. Sign me up. But if he costs what Amari Cooper cost this past season--nope.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Right, when not playing in monsoon conditions and on an offense decimated by covid he was a top 10 (maybe top 5) QB from October 2020 until Anthony Schwartz turtle shelled week 2 2021. Was that the exception to the rule? Hopefully 2022 circumstances allow us to find out quickly.
I think Dak is wildly overrated myself but I don't want to go down that wormhole. I only referenced the impact that Amari had on Dak to illustrate that prior to Amari's arrival Dak was not seen as being any better as a passer then Baker is now, that's my point. I distinctly recall being disappointed that Dallas was the place that Amari got traded to because of Dak's average passing numbers on a run based offense and I think he just got traded to a similar situation.
I don't care one iota about Baker's numbers or Cooper's impact. Again my point here is to illustrate that as as passers go Baker has not shown he's any worse then Dak was before Amari and eventually others helped Dak look better. And my only reason to bring that up is to again show that I don't neccessrily think Amari is taking a downgrade in terms or pure passing ability of guy throwing him the ball.
My argument has been that this move is status quo for Amari so it's not like we are far off, I'm not saying any place this trade is an improvement, more pushing back on notion that Amari's value went down the drain with the trade.
I am slightly degrading Amari because he's making a move which does not always work for WR's but overall I don't think his targets or ability of guy throwing him the ball will be very different. Cooper's good years he's usually a middling WR2, right now I'd value him more like a low end WR2/high end WR3, somewhere in the 20's.
.
Good quick listen on Amari and the trade breakdown from Michael Lombarid:https://twitter.com/VSiNLive/status/1503063338837692416
For those that don't listen potentially key nugget is dropped that some chatter Amari could not pass a physical right now.
Lombardi also touches on what for me is my top concern for Amari, which is does he love football and taking it a step further will he love playing football in Cleveland? I'm not trying to do Cleveland or their fans in any way when I say that either. Fantasy buddy of mine made me laugh yesterday because he emailed me about this trade saying it was a good match of the usually sad mopey faced Amari now going to the Factory of Sadness. Again not trying to disparage Cleveland but for a guy who does seem mopey or does disappear at times in games(I'm not sure whose fault that is) it's hard to think he's going to a place that will light a fire under him.
So we can hash out his QB and the system, but I'm more concerned about his attitude.
I'll finish by saying I'm going to walk back labeling him status quo and that's because of the risk without really much of a reward. Meaning with Baker as his QB I think Amari's targets and production should be similar but I can't see improvement and any time a WR switches teams you have risk and add in the risk of Amari himself. So his value is lower then it was before the trade, I still think the odds are his production won't suffer that's some element of a risk without a reward.
For those that don't listen potentially key nugget is dropped that some chatter Amari could not pass a physical right now.
Lombardi also touches on what for me is my top concern for Amari, which is does he love football and taking it a step further will he love playing football in Cleveland? I'm not trying to do Cleveland or their fans in any way when I say that either. Fantasy buddy of mine made me laugh yesterday because he emailed me about this trade saying it was a good match of the usually sad mopey faced Amari now going to the Factory of Sadness. Again not trying to disparage Cleveland but for a guy who does seem mopey or does disappear at times in games(I'm not sure whose fault that is) it's hard to think he's going to a place that will light a fire under him.
So we can hash out his QB and the system, but I'm more concerned about his attitude.
I'll finish by saying I'm going to walk back labeling him status quo and that's because of the risk without really much of a reward. Meaning with Baker as his QB I think Amari's targets and production should be similar but I can't see improvement and any time a WR switches teams you have risk and add in the risk of Amari himself. So his value is lower then it was before the trade, I still think the odds are his production won't suffer that's some element of a risk without a reward.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Hey Yo.
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
Now that Browns sold their "souls" to acquire DeShaun Watson, what does this mean for Amari Cooper? Would it be understatement to say that Watson is far better QB than ones Cooper played with in his career?
No I think he's way better then any QB he's played and I have the duo in my biggest league and want to be excited about it but I do have concerns that potentially it never gets off the ground or not for long.
With potential of Watson's suspension looming it's hard to say how often they get to play together in 2022.
The Browns recently re-doing Amari's deal was big to me as that for sure increased the odds he see's 2023 with the Browns but they can still save considerable cap dollars if they decide they can do better then paying him $20M. If Amari proves his worth in 2022 it won't be a problem, I think Amari has the talent to be worth it but if we get mopey Amari for 2022 he may not see 2023 as a Brown.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
That other Thud you heard was Cooper's elevator bouncing hard off the floor and rising quickly back up to the penthouse.Soulfly3 said:oh, MoP...
Soulfly3
Footballguy
That other Thud you heard was Cooper's elevator bouncing hard off the floor and rising quickly back up to the penthouse.
like dog the bounty hunter used to say.... gotta tear em down, then build them up higher than where you found em.
or something like that.
