Stealthycat
Footballguy
owners will be wise now to things like this
they will make it do the players lose money AND sit for a year
they will make it do the players lose money AND sit for a year
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WR Antonio Brown, FA (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Casting Couch
- Start date
I guarantee that you are a sad hypocrite who cheers on other disgusting human beings on your favorite team.
If you actually think there are no disgusting human beings on your favorite team, you are gullible beyond words.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I wonder if, once on the Pats, AB whines about not getting the ball and his looks, given how predicated this offense is on spreading the ball around to any and every eligible receiver.
Will be interesting to see how he reacts to potentially not getting the looks and attempts, the same level of yards and catches, he has had throughout his career.
Will be interesting to see how he reacts to potentially not getting the looks and attempts, the same level of yards and catches, he has had throughout his career.
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Insoxicated
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Insoxicated
this angry old dude is the gift that keeps on giving 
matuski
Footballguy
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Antonio Brown is staying with Tom Brady at his house until he finds a place.
themitch
Footballguy
After the game last night, still pretty good. He's gonna be starved for targets in this offense, definitely going to underperform. The Brady / Edelman love trumps all.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
pats dont even need him....
DocHolliday
Footballguy
He did the crazy dance to get what he wanted. He got what he wanted so the crazy is over. AB will be quiet now. This will turn off a lot of fans if the NFL lets it continue. Other players will do this to play in KC soon.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They already have that capability. They can suspend a player for up to 4 games for conduct detrimental to the team. They can also place a player on the suspended list for failing to report if the player doesn't show up for 5 consecutive days of mandatory team practices. I believe that once on that list, a player could be left there for the season.
Where it gets dicey is that the NFLPA will step in, an arbitrator could get involved, beyond that the courts might be brought in, etc. It's conceivable that the team could have sat the player and seen no production from him but then still have to give him his back pay.
That's what set all this up with AB. Brown was going to have his 2019 salary guaranteed at 4:00 PM on Saturday. There was some question if his $30 million signing bonus would be guaranteed at that point as well. Rather than try to sort it out later, the Raiders opted to release him and hope that they would not owe him anything.
It's still unclear whether Brown would be owed money, if what they did violated the CBA, and if Brown is just happy to not be in Oakland. However, he could still go after the Raiders for his supposedly guaranteed $29M or $30M in bonus money when he agreed to go to the Raiders. That would be the real kicker . . . if he ended up on the Patriots and he still got paid his money from Oakland.
One would think it would be easy to show that Brown violated team and league rules, but the CBA in general is filled with a lot of gray zone and various clauses that can sometimes contradict each other. The point being, it may not be cut and dry that Brown would lose his complaint / appeal. I have no idea how things would turn out, but Brown, his agent, and the NFLPA could argue that the things he did were fine worthy but not suspension worthy and not contract voiding worthy.
Hopefully it won't come to that and he just concentrates on football and minimizing opening his mouth and refrains as much as possible from posting on social media.
LawFitz
Footballguy
This 100%.
NFL will let this precedent stand, not because it isn't wrong or obvious what this ####### did, but because it happened to the Raiders. Let's review three major and ridiculous precedents that were set (against the Raiders first) and allowed to continue for YEARS until finally people had enough and compelled the league to apply some basic sense to correct them:
1. Tuck Rule - cost the Raiders a playoff game
2. Calvin Johnson catch rule - happened first time ever the year prior to Ronald Curry in a Monday night Denver endzone - cost the Raiders the game
3. Freeze the kicker post snap - Denver did it to Janikowski to set the trend and overturn a game-winning kick - cost the Raiders the game
I believe all of these rules were eventually addressed and mitigated, but it took years when it should've taken seconds, given how obviously dumb they were. The common denominator has always been and will always be the Raiders. The league and 75%+ of NFL fans hate this team and love seeing them get screwed. If Antonio and the Pats had pulled this on any other team there would be an investigation underway today. Instead, we'll have to suffer through several more instances of this BS from other divas before the league cracks down and stops it at some point down the line. Goodell should suspend AB for the rest of the year based on everything that happened. It's plain as day and he has every legal and moral right to do so. He won't.
rockaction
Footballguy
You really think the Patriots haven't surpassed the Raiders at this point as the relevant team to hate around the league?
I think you're overestimating the Raiders' importance to the league these days. Everything runs through Foxboro, including the unofficial bellwether of commissioner/owner dissent.
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fred_1_15301
Footballguy
You don’t think Brady is going to test out his new toy? Even if he gets 50% snaps, he should put up decent numbers. Look at what Baltimore just did to that team.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I would expect he gets a small package of basic plays to try to run in certain situations based on down and distance / field position. I would also expect he will be a decoy on many of them. They will add as much to his plate moving forward as he can handle. He will play some but probably not a ton. Probably a slant, a curl, an out, and a double hitch / post pattern. Normally NE would want someone to be able to figure out how to change the play on the fly while it is happening. I don't know how much the Steelers ran stuff like that. On NE, he probably will just have to run the play as drawn up for now without the special wrinkles.
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Dizzy
Footballguy
Good point. Miami DBs looked like they were already walking off the field before that "back foot TD pass" from Jackson found the end zone.
shadyridr
Footballguy
I honestly dont think the Pats or Brady care.
I dont see how he gets 50% of the snaps without knowing the offense.
Might be a good week to wait and see the usage especially if you have another good option.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Not even close. People hate the Raiders in a deep way that will likely never be outdone.
This is how the league protected the shield in this very obvious case of a POS playing a long con to get to where he wanted to go...
https://t.co/ZElDFTropb
If the Pats had signed him to a league min deal, I'd not bat an eye and say the Raiders are mostly at fault for all of this. But they signed this nutcase for $10 MM guaranteed a mere few hours after he was cut on the day before their first game of a new season. Gunsmoke.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I agree with rockaction. I don’t think your average fan hates the Raiders. The average fan barely even knows that they exist at this point. When I think of the Raiders, first thing that comes to my mind is the 70s. The second thing that comes to my mind is a rabid fan base. Now the Patriots on the other hand -everyone hates them. They have “evil empire “ nickname for a reason.
LawFitz
Footballguy
^^^ I don't mean to suggest that the Pats were collusive in all of this. Maybe they were, but there is zero evidence of that.
However, someone high up in their decision making process was convinced very quickly that AB wasn't a cancerous nutcase and bet $10 MM on it. To me that smells of Rosenhaus talking to them all along and tipping them off that AB was going to do to the Raiders what he did to the Steelers - act the fool and force himself out the door. And now the stage is set for others to do exactly the same for the next decade, until finally the league steps in and stops such obvious nonsense.
However, someone high up in their decision making process was convinced very quickly that AB wasn't a cancerous nutcase and bet $10 MM on it. To me that smells of Rosenhaus talking to them all along and tipping them off that AB was going to do to the Raiders what he did to the Steelers - act the fool and force himself out the door. And now the stage is set for others to do exactly the same for the next decade, until finally the league steps in and stops such obvious nonsense.
Dizzy
Footballguy
How does this work with the 84?
Does Ben Watson have to turn it over to AB, or does AB have to "make it worth his while?
Or, can he wear it while Watson is suspended?
I just find it interesting that AB posts cartoons of himself rolling in money wearing another guys jersey number.
Does Ben Watson have to turn it over to AB, or does AB have to "make it worth his while?
Or, can he wear it while Watson is suspended?
I just find it interesting that AB posts cartoons of himself rolling in money wearing another guys jersey number.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
They don’t even need him. What’s the point of even introducing this potential headache? Of course B.B. will brook no shiza from him but still....
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I hope Watson takes a stand and refuses to give him the number. Let’s see if this nut job blows up.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Brown was released before 9:00 AM. Any team was able to negotiate and sign him from that moment on. He was signed at 5:00 PM. That's 8 hours worth of time. The reason why they cut him is Brown's 2019 salary became guaranteed at 4:00 PM. They feared his $29 million bonus would potentially be guaranteed as well, and rather than risk having to pay him anything they released him.
Rosenhaus knew from 6 months ago that the Patriots wanted AB as they had offered a first round pick to the Steelers and they said they would never trade him to NE. This isn't rocket science. You don't think Rosenhaus would make his first call to the one team that would have actually given the Steelers what they wanted back in a trade?
It's also come out that at least the Browns and Seahawks were in on Brown. What do you thing happens when multiple teams want the same player? The price goes up. Rosenhaus did his job. Was there the chance that this was sketchy or murky on AB's side? Of course, but the argument could be made that he went postal after learning of the Raiders imposing some hefty fines and that they would not be giving him his $29 million in guaranteed money.
I find it improbable that grand master Belichick could have master minded this situation to the point for everything to break exactly their way . . . and even if it did there were 29 other teams that could have stepped in and done more to prevent it.
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joey
Footballguy
As a Raiders' fan (sympathy accepted here) I agree and I'm not ringing the "collusion" bell.
But I am happy to ring the "conduct detrimental to the league" bell with the antics this ##### pulled.
Manster
Footballguy
AB wanted to go the Pats and he screwed the Raiders to get there. That much seems clear. What will be very interesting is how AB fits in (or doesn't) to the Pats culture......I think it's just as likely that gets cut as flourishes.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That part is on Bell . . . but there are two different types. Conduct detrimental to the TEAM (in which the team can suspend him) and conduct detrimental to the league (in which case the league could fine and suspend him). IMO, the conduct detrimental to the team option left as an option as he got cut and was no longer a member of the Raiders. They could have suspended him but opted not to. The league could step in, but I think they would fine him and at most suspend him for a game. It's hard to tell as there haven't really been a lot of similar circumstances to view as test cases. Some folks have called for Brown to be suspended for the season and NE should lose draft picks. I think that is a bit draconian and won't happen.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
AB orchestrated his trade from the Steelers to get a guaranteed contract by being insubordinate and then once he got to the Raiders he pulled the same nonsense to be released and go to the team of his choice. Players should not be rewarded for being ##### bags but that's the way it is.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I think AB wanted off the Raiders. Latching on to the Patriots after was a bonus. Rosenhaus and BB probably talked at some point and the two agreed that should Brown's situation change they could talk more after that. But I doubt this was a preconceived, done deal between NE and AB while he was still a Raider.
rockaction
Footballguy
No, very few people are accusing the Patriots of tampering and those who are aren't going to listen to reason so let's not extend the debate to that. Let's extend it to the Raiders, the CBA, and precedent about when stuff like this happens in the future. It seems that that's a more likely productive discussion point.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The fans don't run the NFL. All that matters is that the NFL organization and other owners hate the Raiders and the Davis family going back decades. That is why this Brown incident will not be investigated. It will be investigated when it happens to a team next year.
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
I am not sure but I do think that Rosenhaus' first call was to the Patriots. In the end it doesn't matter much to me -- I just hate seeing a jerk being rewarded for being a jerk
Manster
Footballguy
Either way, I feel that once the honeymoon is over and he realizes he's just a cog in the Pats machine, he'll do something to find his way out of town.......and after last night, he seems like a luxury for the Pats, assuming Gordon stays on the field.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
If AB turns out to be just another cog in the Pats machine then he'll be pissed but he won't act up during the season IMO because if he flames out there it's hard to imagine another team giving him a call.
electric Ape
Footballguy
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
#Patriots deal with Antonio Brown: $1M fully guaranteed base, $9M signing bonus ($5M now, $4M later), $500K in 46-man roster bonuses & NLTBE incentives of $1.5M for each of these -- 105 catches, 1,298 yds, 16 TDs. Total: $15M. Plus a $20M option that’s guaranteed if picked up
This is an interesting contract to offer AB.
If you believe the AB is crazy like a fox narrative and think all of his major misbehavior over the past year was purely strategic, then the contract makes more sense for NE.
On the flip side, if you believe that AB is both genuinely volatile and highly stats and money motivated, then tying about 1/3 of his compensation to really aggressive statistical milestones could be dangerous. As early as next week there could be a scenario where the team wants to ease AB into action in a very limited role, but he feels like he deserves a chance to earn his incentives. For an organization that focuses so much on team goals, I’m a little surprised they tied so much of AB’s money to gaudy stats.
#Patriots deal with Antonio Brown: $1M fully guaranteed base, $9M signing bonus ($5M now, $4M later), $500K in 46-man roster bonuses & NLTBE incentives of $1.5M for each of these -- 105 catches, 1,298 yds, 16 TDs. Total: $15M. Plus a $20M option that’s guaranteed if picked up
This is an interesting contract to offer AB.
If you believe the AB is crazy like a fox narrative and think all of his major misbehavior over the past year was purely strategic, then the contract makes more sense for NE.
On the flip side, if you believe that AB is both genuinely volatile and highly stats and money motivated, then tying about 1/3 of his compensation to really aggressive statistical milestones could be dangerous. As early as next week there could be a scenario where the team wants to ease AB into action in a very limited role, but he feels like he deserves a chance to earn his incentives. For an organization that focuses so much on team goals, I’m a little surprised they tied so much of AB’s money to gaudy stats.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
But didn’t he say something to the effect that he could retire now and it wouldn’t make a difference? Does he even really care if he never plays another down? The only thing he cares about is # 84 (and I’m not talking about Ben Watson). He’s not gonna derail this season for the Pats because they’re too smart of an organization.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We don't know what we don't know or things that haven't happened yet. If Brown's goal was to win a SB and some of his frustration with PIT was their inability to produce a title, then he will be in a better place (compared to PIT . . . CERTAINLY compared to OAK). I don't condone what he did and as a Pats fan I am pretty ambivalent about him coming to town. I think he can mostly behave in the short term but longer term a zebra won't change its stripes.
In some ways, landing in NE made sense. They don't need him to win. And if it doesn't work, no one is going to call for BB's head. Part of the reason things could work out is that for the first time in a long time Brown is in a place he wants to be (or so he claims). I don't think there have been issues with his effort or motivation when he plays . . . all his baggage is off the field and social media related.
Since all this happened, I've heard interviews with several former Patriots players who were imported from other teams. One of them told the story of Randy Moss and Donte Stallworth coming in to the team's first off season session in 2007 when BB reviewed their last game (when they blew a double digit lead to the Colts in the AFCCG). BB ripped into Brady something fierce when he underthrew a receiver, telling him that he could go down to the street to Foxboro High School and grab one of their QB's who would have made a better throw. Bill was tossing out F bombs left and right, flung his clipboard and papers flew all over the place, and was all fire and brimstone on the first day of mini camp. They were like . . . it ain't like this where we came from. They were 5 months from playing an actual game.
BB does not run his organization like other teams. It's his way or GTFO. There is no coddling. I am not even sure there is tough love. Do your job, or they'll find someone else who will. Most players have bought in over the years. It remains to be seen if Brown can fall in line and acquiesce. But BB takes risks and if things work out, great. If things don't work out, so be it. This is why I felt all along NE was going to be in on Brown. Bill knows talent and AB is a talented player. Things may not work out, and if they don't, he will move on.
The difference is if AB doesn't work out, BB could cut him in a heartbeat. They just traded for a center from the Bills and cut him a few days later. Or they could just deactivate him on game day and pay him, essentially keeping off the field if he didn't play nice. We'll have to see just how guaranteed the guarantees are. They may have contractual wiggle room or they may not.
Manster
Footballguy
He's not reaching those milestones on the pats....
I go back to him melting down when JuJu won the 2018 Steelers mvp.....that showed his true colors
matttyl
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
How is that big numbers? He was making essentially an average of $1 million a game in PIT and scheduled to make that in OAK. It's a one year deal with a relatively small amount guaranteed (see Jones, Julio for the difference in contracts).
We still need to know more about the parameters. The split signing bonus could be telling. When is later? The end of the season? This could be as little as a $6 million investment if things go south. If NE ends up with the guy that has averaged 6-7 catches a game for several years by the end of the season and he makes it through February, this contract could end up being a total steal.
