Anarchy99
Footballguy
Yeah, those are exactly what they are classified as . . . not likely to be earned incentives. There's some cap tomfoolery involved in all of this, but that is a bit above my pay grade.
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WR Antonio Brown, FA (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Casting Couch
- Start date
The Raiders have beent the 2nd worst franchise the last 16 years, after Superbowl appearance
5.3 wins a year
one playoff birth
plus/ minus per years 100 per year minus
The only team worse in this time frame is the Browns
They could of controlled Antonio Brown for the year and never paid him, and made sure the Patiriots didnt get him either, they got made fools of, like a poor franchise would
IM in Vegas and Hate we get the worst Francoise here next year, no way I can support them or even like em
5.3 wins a year
one playoff birth
plus/ minus per years 100 per year minus
The only team worse in this time frame is the Browns
They could of controlled Antonio Brown for the year and never paid him, and made sure the Patiriots didnt get him either, they got made fools of, like a poor franchise would
IM in Vegas and Hate we get the worst Francoise here next year, no way I can support them or even like em
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
This is historical revisionism. The tuck rule was called 5 times during the regular season including non-throws by Kurt Warner and Kerry Collins. At the time, it was much-reviled rule that was spoken about by officiating crews during the regular season as a rule that made no sense but a rule that they were required to enforce. Your attempt to imply that the rule was enforced in not just an arbitrary way but in fact in support of a conspiracy or agenda to put the Patriots into the superbowl falls short of the mark. But keep trying; I'm sure some will buy what you're selling.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
I agree with the sentiment. As I have posted, I don't think AB should be rewarded / should get what he apparently wanted via the actions he took.
(But I will aggressively respond to the tampering allegations which are just so much sour grapes).
Figuring out how to legislate this could prove tricky, however. For example, did Moss loaf in Oakland (probably) or did his numbers suffer purely because of injuries and playing on a (then) crappy team? Having said that, you could put some simple things in place regarding limitations on what can and can't be shared on social media.
matttyl
Footballguy
I meant the big incentive based numbers. The number of receptions, yards and TDs he'd need to get to get the full amount of his contract.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Moss was traded, and there is a long list of players that have tried to force a trade. There are reports circulating from yesterday that Miami players have asked their agents to talk to Dolphins management about getting a ticket out of town. Not sure that will ever change.
Similarly, players can get away with more the more talented they are. Zeke holds out and gets paid. Melvin Gordon holds out and gets a lump of coal. Not sure that will ever change.
The issue with AB stemmed from his bonus money and the fact his salary was going to become guaranteed. He wanted to get released and financially it made more sense / was less risky for OAK to release him. Not sure that can procedurally be corrected.
I agree that acting like a petulant child is a bad look for the league, but add that to a long list of bad looks for the league. Players should not be rewarded for bad behavior, but in AB's case, that would have required OAK to keep him and fight with the commish, the NFLPA, an arbitrator, and potentially a court.
I don't know what the courswe of action should be for the NFL to deal with divas and guys that will only go 50% if they don't get what they want. Or turn to social media to air their dirty laundry. Maybe the league should just mandate that there can be no discussion about teams / coaches / teammates / other players at all. That would cure a lot of ills . . . if they could get that collectively bargained.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
This is partly true. The Raiders could have suspended Brown for 4 games without pay, but as long as Brown showed up and followed the rules after that, the Raiders would have been required to pay him or cut him.
(Of course, that scenario assumes that Brown would eventually behave, which I think we all agree would be a fairly unlikely scenario.)
DocHolliday
Footballguy
So you are saying that wasn't a fumble even though Brady had pulled the ball down and had two hands on it?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If AB refused to play / practice, the other option was sending him a 5-day letter telling him he had five days to show up or effectively be considered AWOL. If he did not comply, he would hae been suspended for the season without pay. There are all sorts of obscure rules and procedures that most people are not all that familiar with.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
It was a rule at the time and the rule was called and interpreted correctly. In fact, the same call went against NE earlier in the season. Not the Patriots fault that the rule existed. It was a dumb rule and they ditched it in 2013.
Skoo
Footballguy
Yeah my heart sank when I saw that report Saturday morning. Worst-case scenario for an AB owner.
Few hours later I was dancing a jig!
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Brown in NE is certainly better than Brown being suspended. How well he will do is anyone's guess. I don't see Brown getting anywhere the number of targets he saw in PIT or would have seen in OAK. NE just has too many other weapons that they will use to just funnel targets to AB all day long. Given that he has to learn an entire playbook, IMO, his upside is probably a fantasy WR2. If I had to guess, maybe he ends up ranked in the WR15-20 range. In that, I am thinking Brown plays the part of good soldier and plays out the year in NE without any major dust ups.
Skoo
Footballguy
I'm in the camp that thinks he'll be a WR1 again. He may not get as many targets, but he'll get open and I'm pretty sure Brady doesn't care who he's throwing to, he's just looking for the open guy.
That said, if I get a great offer for him I'll be happy to get off this roller coaster ride. Hoping he has a huge first week and the offers start rolling in.
efactor
Footballguy
Not a Pats fan (although I certainly don't hate them either) but have seen enough to know that Belichick will put his foot on the gas and run up the score when he has the weapons. Brown, Gordon, Edelman, plus White out of the backfield? I really wish I had drafted Brady in all my leagues now. I think Brown will get enough quality targets to make him a top 5-7 receiver. As good as Gordon and Edelman are, Brown is in another realm, similar to the first year they had Moss. Although Brady has lost some arm strength, he can still chuck it, as evident last night.
Patriots will be fun to watch again as an outsider. I see a ton of passing coming up...............
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Brady finding the open guy was a thing pre-2007. He really hasn't been like that in the past decade plus. He zeroes in on guys he trusts and will even throw into double or triple coverage if he knows his guy will be in the exact right spot. In recent seasons, that's been Edelman, Gronk, and White. People thinking Brown is going to come in and get a firm grasp of the offense and know what Brady wants him to do in every situation on every play are crazy. We went through this last year with Josh Gordon and it didn't happen then either. Brown and Roethlisberger had a good thing, but even Ben chirped at times that Brown would cut off routes and ad lib as he saw fit to try to get open. That won't work in NE as that is not how Brady operates. NE has one of the most complicated playbooks for receivers . . . they have literally a dozen options and reads in a play while the play is on going. If Brady doesn't trust a receiver, that guy won't be seeing a dozen targets a game. It's incredibly hard to join a new team with no practice, no knowledge of the plays, and no chemistry with the QB.
Steeler
Footballguy
Do we really have to rehash the freaking tuck rule in a player thread nearly 20 year later?
joey
Footballguy
us Raiders fans are still bitter as hell about it.
but, I agree. I'd rather focus on what the league should do to prevent a player from acting like this against one of it's franchises.
3nOut
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
TMZ ran a (fairly late breaking) story about how the lack of consent for the Gruden phone call could get Brown into legal trouble and hence drive a suspension, but this requires Gruden to seek charges against Brown after he supposedly signed off on the video. I suspect Gruden won't do that because he's old school, but I certainly wouldn't whine if the whole AB to the Pats scenario collapses under the weight of Brown acting like a turd.
I think I have fewer misgivings to Brown joining the Pats than the misgivings I had when Albert Haynesworth was brought in, but its close.
I think I have fewer misgivings to Brown joining the Pats than the misgivings I had when Albert Haynesworth was brought in, but its close.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I like to play future box scores...this week @Miami in the sticky confines of Hard Rock Stadium, should be a tough road for the Pats on the road.
-Brady 350/4 TD
-J.Edleman 8/88...who is going to cover him with AB and Gordon working the 10-20 yard range and then over the top of the Safety?
-J.White 6/60...again the underneath stuff is going to tear defenses apart trying to drop back and not look as bad as Pittsburgh did.
-Antonio Brown...6/72 or he could also end up with 4/85/2TDs but I don't think he will be a PPR machine like he was in Pittsburgh to go with the yards and TDs.
-I know it's easy to say Josh Gordon gets a catch or two and that's about it but I think that is short sighted. He is on a mission to prove himself as well and he simply bounces off people, it might be feast or famine but I can see a week he has 120+ yds and 2-3 TDs as the defense focuses on two potential Hall of Fame WRs and their QB more than Gordon. That said, JG is going to be hard to start confidently week in week out. Last season he was alright but nothing too crazy, now he's had a lot more time in the system and understands the play book vs mid ship.
I do believe Dorsett will be used a lot more occasionally than he was Sunday Night but he's a pulled muscle form being a starter, that could easily happen as the season unfolds, at worst he is a total luxury for the Patriots behind the other 3.
It could look much different but you also have to figure the Patriots will line up and just run some weeks, we just don't know exactly when. And good luck trying to figure out the RB Box score on a weekly basis.
I can't see Edelman going 3/36 too often. I also think White helps keep defenses honest and there is no reason to believe they go away from him. Sony Michel might have a slightly slower 1st half of the season but wait until it turns cold and then I think he is more likely to see a larger volume of carries, just my opinion.
Does anyone feel like Brown will coast to 105 balls? I don't and I can also see where he might get grumbly and ends up on the streets at some point...but he has a lot to lose if he doesn't walk the line for a while.
-Brady 350/4 TD
-J.Edleman 8/88...who is going to cover him with AB and Gordon working the 10-20 yard range and then over the top of the Safety?
-J.White 6/60...again the underneath stuff is going to tear defenses apart trying to drop back and not look as bad as Pittsburgh did.
-Antonio Brown...6/72 or he could also end up with 4/85/2TDs but I don't think he will be a PPR machine like he was in Pittsburgh to go with the yards and TDs.
-I know it's easy to say Josh Gordon gets a catch or two and that's about it but I think that is short sighted. He is on a mission to prove himself as well and he simply bounces off people, it might be feast or famine but I can see a week he has 120+ yds and 2-3 TDs as the defense focuses on two potential Hall of Fame WRs and their QB more than Gordon. That said, JG is going to be hard to start confidently week in week out. Last season he was alright but nothing too crazy, now he's had a lot more time in the system and understands the play book vs mid ship.
I do believe Dorsett will be used a lot more occasionally than he was Sunday Night but he's a pulled muscle form being a starter, that could easily happen as the season unfolds, at worst he is a total luxury for the Patriots behind the other 3.
It could look much different but you also have to figure the Patriots will line up and just run some weeks, we just don't know exactly when. And good luck trying to figure out the RB Box score on a weekly basis.
I can't see Edelman going 3/36 too often. I also think White helps keep defenses honest and there is no reason to believe they go away from him. Sony Michel might have a slightly slower 1st half of the season but wait until it turns cold and then I think he is more likely to see a larger volume of carries, just my opinion.
Does anyone feel like Brown will coast to 105 balls? I don't and I can also see where he might get grumbly and ends up on the streets at some point...but he has a lot to lose if he doesn't walk the line for a while.
joey
Footballguy
in a Gruden post-Brown-release press interview, one of the reporters asked about the illegal recording and if it's something he might pursue and he said it's past history and he's not interested in discussing it any more. Of course, behind the scenes, the Raiders/lawyers could decide to pursue it...maybe the call was made from the Raiders' office on Raiders' phone lines, so maybe the team can push it forward. Who knows. But publicly, Gruden did seem to have the old school "water under the bridge" vibe to him and wanted to just move ahead and talk about football and the 53 players that ARE on this team.
LawFitz
Footballguy
If Gruden has legal recourse, I'd love to see him go after AB. But perhaps that would start a ### for tat, where AB then comes back after his Raiders guarantees. At this point, I'd guess the Raiders will just move on and let the league handle any AB discipline. The Raiders are very highly unlikely to face the Pats and AB this post-season, so at this point, best to tuck the tail and try to move on without further distraction or seasonal derailment.
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Was out for the weekend without internet, and I just went to the last page, so I am sure this has been said:
There is no chance the Patriots and AB did not plan this way in advance (Julyish), and AB just had to get increasingly more crazy to get dropped because the Raiders were not doing it promptly.
There is no chance the Patriots and AB did not plan this way in advance (Julyish), and AB just had to get increasingly more crazy to get dropped because the Raiders were not doing it promptly.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Ironically, pressing forward with legal charges is exactly the kind of Machiavellian stunt that Belichick would pursue purely as a blocking mechanism. Other organizations would pursue it for vindictive reasons. In a vacuum, I think the "water under the bridge" is the best response strategy as the Raiders need to concentrate on building a culture and profiting from draft harvesting over the next couple years. If they were higher up in the food chain, the blocking scenario would make more sense.
Further, the owners may be thinking that when its time to negotiate the next CBA they will have an easier time trying to enforce confidentiality provisions of they let the Raiders play the victim in the short term (versus creating "unrest" in the labor workforce by proceeding with the legal option).
LeBatard interviewed the producer of the video and it was revealed that Gruden gave the okay for the phone call to be used and posted.
https://twitter.com/espn/status/1171132618152300544?s=20
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
In your theory, where it was two parties colluding, rather than one party, what role did the Patriots play? Did they need to prod AB to do this, because he was otherwise a heck of a nice guy? Did they need to "talk him out of the Raiders"? Please provide additional details. Why July? Do you have a specific date?
Also, for extra credit, what do you suppose the odds are that it could be proven that this collusion took place?
0% it will be proven, I imagine it was something simple like " We have a spot for you if you are ever available, here are the numbers".
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Sorry. Someone posted a question about it so I gave my honest answer. I will keep the conversation on current happenings from now on.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I have already posted extensively, but allow me I retort. NE spoke with Drew Rosenhaus about a trade of AB from PIT to the Patriots. They offered a first round pick, possibly more like a mid round pick for Brown. They knew full well back then his demands to get additional guaranteed money as him agreeing to a trade. The Steelers turned down the offer because they didn’t want Brown on NE.huthut said:
Instead PIT accepted less and sent AB where they thought a trade would not hurt them. IMO, Brown really would have preferred to play on a contender. When he showed up in OAK, he did not like the culture, the QB, the system, and who knows what. Then the foot thing and helmet thing happened. Then he misses practices and meetings.
PIT didn’t care about that stuff and chose not to make a big deal about it. They let him do his thing. The Raiders took exception and fined him. That let to Brown posting team fine notices on n Instagram. That led to the incident with Mayock. That led to the big team apology.
At this point, Brown probably would have been good to go if the Raiders backed off. The team said everything was good and Brown would be on the field Week 1. In AB’s mind, everything in the past was settled and the air was cleared.
But OAK then followed up with $215K more in fines and notified Brown they would not be paying him his $29M in bonus money. AB then went postal and took to social media to get released.
OAK could have done lots of things, starting with suspending him for up to 4 games. If he refused to show up for practice, they could have given him a letter that gave him 5 days to report or be suspended without pay. They could have suspended Brown and dealt with the player’s association and arbitration.
Instead, rather than deal with any of those, they chose to release him. Had Brown been on the roster at 4 pm that day, his salary for this year would have been guaranteed and the team would have less of an argument in withholding his $29M in bonuses.
They cut Brown before 9 AM. Brown could not technically be re-signed by anyone until after 4 PM. But he was free to negotiate with all the other franchises. After interest from at least CLE, SEA, and NE, he picked the Patriots and agreed 8 hours later.
Rosenhaus already knew that NE wanted Brown from their talks 6 months prior. Why wouldn’t he call NE first? AB’s asking price was way higher then. He signed with NE and lost at least $14 million by leaving the Raiders.
Plenty of other teams could have signed him and chose not to. Now explain to me how BB orchestrated at least a dozen things and got every other franchise not to outbid the Patriots. And explain to me how BB got the Raiders not to take any of the avenues they could have to keep Brown or prevent him for playing elsewhere. Because that’s the only way NE could have coordinated this.
Sure, BB likely told Rosenhaus six months ago that they would be interested in Brown if his situation changed. But for people to suggest that NE was the mastermind of this is just plain looking for a conspiracy.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Nope I call a spade a spade. What Antonio Brown said was racist. Its Blacks who defend Brown why when the real racism on blacks happen people don't believe them. It's like the boy who cried wolf too many times. Black people defending blacks who defend blacks being racist and those like Barry Bonds and others who use it to try to not take accountability for their own actions like my former co worker[icon] said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
Hope Tom doesn't start Kissing AB on the lips or is ok with TB doing it to his own kids around AB.VikingFrog said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
Dam shame hard knocks wasn't extended into the season and changed to following the Patriots but I doubt BB would ever let Hard Knocks on in therefred_1_15301 said:
DJackson10
Footballguy
Teams should be able to suspend a player however they see fit in situations like ABs without being punished. This just makes the Raiders look like push overs.rockaction said:
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Some quarterbacks kiss their kids on their lips. Other quarterbacks puke all over themselves in the superbowl. Nobody's perfect.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Wouldn't you want a trade after yesterday? Its blatant the org isn't caring about winning. I actually wish NBA players felt the same way when teams did this.Anarchy99 said:
bostonfred
Footballguy
Some quarterbacks kiss their kids on their lips. Other quarterbacks puke all over themselves in the superbowl. Nobody's perfect.
wend:
DJackson10
Footballguy
And Some QBs lose to career back ups who are constantly hurtSome quarterbacks kiss their kids on their lips. Other quarterbacks puke all over themselves in the superbowl. Nobody's perfect.
DJackson10
Footballguy
That same QB constantly hurt lost to a career back up a year prior was ready to retire from football. Not sure thats owning anyone.
DropKick
Footballguy
I’m an Eagles fan and laughed at that... well done.Some quarterbacks kiss their kids on their lips. Other quarterbacks puke all over themselves in the superbowl. Nobody's perfect.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Federal Lawsuit Alleges Sexual Battery, False Imprisonment, and Battery against NFL’s Antonio Brown
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/sports/football/antonio-brown-sexual-asssault-patriots.html
Complaint document here:
https://haaslawpllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/1_Complaint.pdf
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/sports/football/antonio-brown-sexual-asssault-patriots.html
Complaint document here:
https://haaslawpllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/1_Complaint.pdf
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