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WR Davante Adams, LV (19 Viewers)

How much does he have left? He did have the one good game this year, but at 31 (close to 32), that's always a risk. Julio Jones fell off the cliff after his age 30 season.
He doesn’t look anywhere close to being washed to me.
Neither did Julio Jones during his 2019 season of 1394 yards and 6 TDs. It was downhill after that.
Adams doesn’t have the history with injuries like Julio did. At his advanced age, it all finally caught up to him.
Perhaps, but you never know whether a 32 year old WR has one foot on a banana peel and the other dangling from the cliff.
There are several teams he could go to where I’d be extremely confident in him being a top 10 PPR WR ROS.
 
i'll offer a darkhorse in the 49ers. they have the space for this year. adams would be close to his hometown and have a chance to contend for him. the 9ers have a comp'ed 3rd so maybe could part with a 2nd or 3rd more willingly. would be another body for the 9ers to keep others fresh or to just have someone when others get hurt
 
How much does he have left? He did have the one good game this year, but at 31 (close to 32), that's always a risk. Julio Jones fell off the cliff after his age 30 season.
He doesn’t look anywhere close to being washed to me.
Neither did Julio Jones during his 2019 season (age 30) of 1394 yards and 6 TDs. It was downhill after that.
IMO they have entirely different skill sets between Julio and Davante. Julio was a physical monster who could fly, he was a fine route runner but that isn't what made him special it was his physicality at the point of contact and ability to blow by defenders either deep or after the catch on crossing routes. His career ended after four injury plagued seasons.

Davante's game has never been about speed, it's about smart football, precise route running, reading the defense and finding the same holes the QB is looking at. The one trait he and Julio share is great hand eye coordination and sticky hands. He's been healthy for most of his career too. I think he offers plenty of value for this and probably next season at least.
 
i'll offer a darkhorse in the 49ers. they have the space for this year. adams would be close to his hometown and have a chance to contend for him. the 9ers have a comp'ed 3rd so maybe could part with a 2nd or 3rd more willingly. would be another body for the 9ers to keep others fresh or to just have someone when others get hurt
That'd be a pretty big darkhorse. Especially since they are getting Pearsall back this week, and all of Aiyuk/Deebo/Jennings/Kittle are currently healthy.
 
My top 4 most likely in order:

1. Jets. To obvious. They can fit him his salary in and Rodgers truly gave up money, guaranteed money last year to help the Jets put some players around him and it seems apparent he's had input in how that money is allocated. Douglass is a better GM then Saleh is HC IMO but they both could go down if things go awry can see why they might be in F those picks mode and go for it now under realization their jobs are on the line.

2. Steeler's. They already tried to trade and pay for a WR. They are 3-1 with PIckens and not much else, have cap space and might be Adams best bet for an extension that at least puts some guarantees for 2025.

3. Cleveland. Similar to Pittsburght we know they tried to trade for and pay Aiyuk so they were at least in the market. Just not sure 1-3 and/or wanting to potentially extend an older WR is in the cards. Consequently he may not want them, like Aiyuk.

4. Washington-they never seemd to be in on Aiyuk despite the Peters connection so that's the case against but they might be better then they thought and ready to make an aggresive move and they have cap space if they want to use it.
With Pittsburgh and Cleveland, how much of their interest in Aiyuk was about it being a WR in his mid 20s? Would either be that interested in a guy on the back nine?

I could be way off, but the Browns strike me more as sellers than buyers.
Mary Kay Cabot, Browns beat writer, was hinting around all weekend about Browns possibly being interested in Adams the same way she did about their interest in Aiyuk about a day or two before it became public knowledge. I don't think they are close to selling, maybe not buying yet, but pretty far from selling.

Obviously all teams prefer a younger option and that could be issue for Browns or Steelers but Steelers specifically just need WR help and Pickens is going to be due for an extension soon. Might work out timing wise to be shedding Davante about the time Pickens is due.
 
Whatever happens here, it’s absolutely idiotic that the Raiders refused to take calls in the offseason/preseason before teams had their cap situations settled.

Seems like their options will be limited. PIT seems like the best combo of need & ability to get something done.
 
My top 4 most likely in order:

1. Jets. To obvious. They can fit him his salary in and Rodgers truly gave up money, guaranteed money last year to help the Jets put some players around him and it seems apparent he's had input in how that money is allocated. Douglass is a better GM then Saleh is HC IMO but they both could go down if things go awry can see why they might be in F those picks mode and go for it now under realization their jobs are on the line.

2. Steeler's. They already tried to trade and pay for a WR. They are 3-1 with PIckens and not much else, have cap space and might be Adams best bet for an extension that at least puts some guarantees for 2025.

3. Cleveland. Similar to Pittsburght we know they tried to trade for and pay Aiyuk so they were at least in the market. Just not sure 1-3 and/or wanting to potentially extend an older WR is in the cards. Consequently he may not want them, like Aiyuk.

4. Washington-they never seemd to be in on Aiyuk despite the Peters connection so that's the case against but they might be better then they thought and ready to make an aggresive move and they have cap space if they want to use it.
With Pittsburgh and Cleveland, how much of their interest in Aiyuk was about it being a WR in his mid 20s? Would either be that interested in a guy on the back nine?

I could be way off, but the Browns strike me more as sellers than buyers.
Mary Kay Cabot, Browns beat writer, was hinting around all weekend about Browns possibly being interested in Adams the same way she did about their interest in Aiyuk about a day or two before it became public knowledge. I don't think they are close to selling, maybe not buying yet, but pretty far from selling.

Obviously all teams prefer a younger option and that could be issue for Browns or Steelers but Steelers specifically just need WR help and Pickens is going to be due for an extension soon. Might work out timing wise to be shedding Davante about the time Pickens is due.
Isn’t Cleveland where he would go to die?
 
I know the Jets seems like the easy button choice but another WR is not what that team needs. Outside of ARod it’s just not a great fit.
Its kind of a big need. Wilson has underwhelmed to the point Lazard has been their #1.
The question is why has Wilson underperformed.

Maybe this is who he is. He averages 60 ypg (11.7 ypc) for his career and has 8 touchdowns in 38 games.

He's a supporting piece more than "the guy" imo
 
IMO, a 2nd is way too much for a 32 year old WR with a high cap # that's just a half season rental.
Unless it puts you over the top. It's an arms race.
Outside of the Chiefs, I'd argue none of the teams being bandied about in here are one WR piece away from being over the top. Maybe the Bills but they are low on cap space and already unloaded one aging WR recently themselves. Certainly not teams like the Commanders or the Browns or the Jets. Obviously it only takes one team to step up to the plate, but t's been very rare for in-season trades to fetch a 1st or a 2nd, and when they have it's almost always been someone much younger than Adams.
 
I know the Jets seems like the easy button choice but another WR is not what that team needs. Outside of ARod it’s just not a great fit.
Its kind of a big need. Wilson has underwhelmed to the point Lazard has been their #1.
The question is why has Wilson underperformed.

Maybe this is who he is. He averages 60 ypg (11.7 ypc) for his career and has 8 touchdowns in 38 games.

He's a supporting piece more than "the guy" imo
No doubt, certainly is an option. And maybe Hall is not good too. Or all the pieces on D as well. It’s just not the way I’d bet is all I’m saying.
 
People saying the Chiefs, I can't see them trading within the division.

Cause it's easy for the masses to say the Chiefs. You are 100% correct.
Al Davis no way would trade Adams to a division rival. Especially the Chiefs.
And then there are additional issues.
Adams salary against the cap is $25 mil this year. $44 mil 2025. $45 mil 2026.
Chiefs have no cap space. Players are getting paid. Already under contract.
Marquis, who's out rest of the year, is getting paid. Done and done.
So let's say Al Davis took some sativa gummies and lost his mind. Decides to trade Adams to KC.
Oak can take on the $25 mil salary for 2024. But then they would need to be compensated with draft picks.
Such as a 1st or 2nd round pick. Hell no ain't no way KC has that draft capital.
Especially after they already used a 3rd and 7th in 2024 to move up and take Worthy.
 
My top 4 most likely in order:

1. Jets. To obvious. They can fit him his salary in and Rodgers truly gave up money, guaranteed money last year to help the Jets put some players around him and it seems apparent he's had input in how that money is allocated. Douglass is a better GM then Saleh is HC IMO but they both could go down if things go awry can see why they might be in F those picks mode and go for it now under realization their jobs are on the line.

2. Steeler's. They already tried to trade and pay for a WR. They are 3-1 with PIckens and not much else, have cap space and might be Adams best bet for an extension that at least puts some guarantees for 2025.

3. Cleveland. Similar to Pittsburght we know they tried to trade for and pay Aiyuk so they were at least in the market. Just not sure 1-3 and/or wanting to potentially extend an older WR is in the cards. Consequently he may not want them, like Aiyuk.

4. Washington-they never seemd to be in on Aiyuk despite the Peters connection so that's the case against but they might be better then they thought and ready to make an aggresive move and they have cap space if they want to use it.
With Pittsburgh and Cleveland, how much of their interest in Aiyuk was about it being a WR in his mid 20s? Would either be that interested in a guy on the back nine?

I could be way off, but the Browns strike me more as sellers than buyers.
Mary Kay Cabot, Browns beat writer, was hinting around all weekend about Browns possibly being interested in Adams the same way she did about their interest in Aiyuk about a day or two before it became public knowledge. I don't think they are close to selling, maybe not buying yet, but pretty far from selling.

Obviously all teams prefer a younger option and that could be issue for Browns or Steelers but Steelers specifically just need WR help and Pickens is going to be due for an extension soon. Might work out timing wise to be shedding Davante about the time Pickens is due.
Isn’t Cleveland where he would go to die?
Not unless Cleveland is spelled Baltimore.

Heading into last week's game the Browns were the #1 neutral pass rate team in the league. They want to throw the ball around. Yes Watson has been subpar but he was starting to show some improvement last week and I think if/when they can get their OL healthy things could look totally different.

But Davante may see it like you and Aiyuk apparently did.
 
People saying the Chiefs, I can't see them trading within the division.

Cause it's easy for the masses to say the Chiefs. You are 100% correct.
Al Davis no way would trade Adams to a division rival. Especially the Chiefs.
And then there are additional issues.
Adams salary against the cap is $25 mil this year. $44 mil 2025. $45 mil 2026.
Chiefs have no cap space. Players are getting paid. Already under contract.
Marquis, who's out rest of the year, is getting paid. Done and done.
So let's say Al Davis took some sativa gummies and lost his mind. Decides to trade Adams to KC.
Oak can take on the $25 mil salary for 2024. But then they would need to be compensated with draft picks.
Such as a 1st or 2nd round pick. Hell no ain't no way KC has that draft capital.
Especially after they already used a 3rd and 7th in 2024 to move up and take Worthy.
That is well explained. You convinced me.
 
People saying the Chiefs, I can't see them trading within the division.

Cause it's easy for the masses to say the Chiefs. You are 100% correct.
Al Davis no way would trade Adams to a division rival. Especially the Chiefs.
And then there are additional issues.
Adams salary against the cap is $25 mil this year. $44 mil 2025. $45 mil 2026.
Chiefs have no cap space. Players are getting paid. Already under contract.
Marquis, who's out rest of the year, is getting paid. Done and done.
So let's say Al Davis took some sativa gummies and lost his mind. Decides to trade Adams to KC.
Oak can take on the $25 mil salary for 2024. But then they would need to be compensated with draft picks.
Such as a 1st or 2nd round pick. Hell no ain't no way KC has that draft capital.
Especially after they already used a 3rd and 7th in 2024 to move up and take Worthy.
Al Davis? 😆
 
People saying the Chiefs, I can't see them trading within the division.

Cause it's easy for the masses to say the Chiefs. You are 100% correct.
Al Davis no way would trade Adams to a division rival. Especially the Chiefs.
And then there are additional issues.
Adams salary against the cap is $25 mil this year. $44 mil 2025. $45 mil 2026.
Chiefs have no cap space. Players are getting paid. Already under contract.
Marquis, who's out rest of the year, is getting paid. Done and done.
So let's say Al Davis took some sativa gummies and lost his mind. Decides to trade Adams to KC.
Oak can take on the $25 mil salary for 2024. But then they would need to be compensated with draft picks.
Such as a 1st or 2nd round pick. Hell no ain't no way KC has that draft capital.
Especially after they already used a 3rd and 7th in 2024 to move up and take Worthy.
Al Davis? 😆
Come on, we ALL know he’s running that team from the grave. How else do you explain the past decade?
 
People saying the Chiefs, I can't see them trading within the division.

Cause it's easy for the masses to say the Chiefs. You are 100% correct.
Al Davis no way would trade Adams to a division rival. Especially the Chiefs.
And then there are additional issues.
Adams salary against the cap is $25 mil this year. $44 mil 2025. $45 mil 2026.
Chiefs have no cap space. Players are getting paid. Already under contract.
Marquis, who's out rest of the year, is getting paid. Done and done.
So let's say Al Davis took some sativa gummies and lost his mind. Decides to trade Adams to KC.
Oak can take on the $25 mil salary for 2024. But then they would need to be compensated with draft picks.
Such as a 1st or 2nd round pick. Hell no ain't no way KC has that draft capital.
Especially after they already used a 3rd and 7th in 2024 to move up and take Worthy.
Al Davis? 😆

Dang my bad lol. Meant Mark Davis.
 
People saying the Chiefs, I can't see them trading within the division.

Cause it's easy for the masses to say the Chiefs. You are 100% correct.
Al Davis no way would trade Adams to a division rival. Especially the Chiefs.
And then there are additional issues.
Adams salary against the cap is $25 mil this year. $44 mil 2025. $45 mil 2026.
Chiefs have no cap space. Players are getting paid. Already under contract.
Marquis, who's out rest of the year, is getting paid. Done and done.
So let's say Al Davis took some sativa gummies and lost his mind. Decides to trade Adams to KC.
Oak can take on the $25 mil salary for 2024. But then they would need to be compensated with draft picks.
Such as a 1st or 2nd round pick. Hell no ain't no way KC has that draft capital.
Especially after they already used a 3rd and 7th in 2024 to move up and take Worthy.
Al Davis? 😆
Come on, we ALL know he’s running that team from the grave. How else do you explain the past decade?
:laugh: If Al Davis was still running the team, Xavier Worthy would somehow be a Raider. Guaranteed.
 
I always wondered how much GM's value the specific team they trade a player too. For example. Would the Raiders gm actually trade Adams to the Chiefs if it returned more then say the Rams? Does it have to be substantually more in return to trade within division? Or is it not even an option?
 
My top 4 most likely in order:

1. Jets. To obvious. They can fit him his salary in and Rodgers truly gave up money, guaranteed money last year to help the Jets put some players around him and it seems apparent he's had input in how that money is allocated. Douglass is a better GM then Saleh is HC IMO but they both could go down if things go awry can see why they might be in F those picks mode and go for it now under realization their jobs are on the line.

2. Steeler's. They already tried to trade and pay for a WR. They are 3-1 with PIckens and not much else, have cap space and might be Adams best bet for an extension that at least puts some guarantees for 2025.

3. Cleveland. Similar to Pittsburght we know they tried to trade for and pay Aiyuk so they were at least in the market. Just not sure 1-3 and/or wanting to potentially extend an older WR is in the cards. Consequently he may not want them, like Aiyuk.

4. Washington-they never seemd to be in on Aiyuk despite the Peters connection so that's the case against but they might be better then they thought and ready to make an aggresive move and they have cap space if they want to use it.
With Pittsburgh and Cleveland, how much of their interest in Aiyuk was about it being a WR in his mid 20s? Would either be that interested in a guy on the back nine?

I could be way off, but the Browns strike me more as sellers than buyers.
Mary Kay Cabot, Browns beat writer, was hinting around all weekend about Browns possibly being interested in Adams the same way she did about their interest in Aiyuk about a day or two before it became public knowledge. I don't think they are close to selling, maybe not buying yet, but pretty far from selling.

Obviously all teams prefer a younger option and that could be issue for Browns or Steelers but Steelers specifically just need WR help and Pickens is going to be due for an extension soon. Might work out timing wise to be shedding Davante about the time Pickens is due.
Isn’t Cleveland where he would go to die?
As a Raiders fan for all my life, all I can say is thank God for Cleveland.
 
Would the Raiders gm actually trade Adams to the Chiefs if it returned more then say the Rams?
The answer to that had better be "Hell, yes!". You take the best deal for your team. I don't give [insert naughty language reference here] which team gets him, the job is to extract the most value.
This 100%.

Any GM who says they won't trade someone to a team offering a better because they don't wanna make that team better is a loser with a loser's mentality. Now if its something like, "we wanna do right be the player" or something of that ilk that's different. But that doesn't apply here.
 
Would the Raiders gm actually trade Adams to the Chiefs if it returned more then say the Rams?
The answer to that had better be "Hell, yes!". You take the best deal for your team. I don't give [insert naughty language reference here] which team gets him, the job is to extract the most value.
This 100%.

Any GM who says they won't trade someone to a team offering a better because they don't wanna make that team better is a loser with a loser's mentality. Now if its something like, "we wanna do right be the player" or something of that ilk that's different. But that doesn't apply here.
Honestly, if the player doesn't have a no trade clause the GM should trade them for the most value regardless of destination. The "right by the player" stuff is what you feed the media when you fail to extract the expected value.
 
Would the Raiders gm actually trade Adams to the Chiefs if it returned more then say the Rams?
The answer to that had better be "Hell, yes!". You take the best deal for your team. I don't give [insert naughty language reference here] which team gets him, the job is to extract the most value.
This 100%.

Any GM who says they won't trade someone to a team offering a better because they don't wanna make that team better is a loser with a loser's mentality. Now if its something like, "we wanna do right be the player" or something of that ilk that's different. But that doesn't apply here.
Honestly, if the player doesn't have a no trade clause the GM should trade them for the most value regardless of destination. The "right by the player" stuff is what you the media when you fail to extract the expected value.
Agreed. Let's add a scenario to test resolve. Your the Panthers gm. We all know what you gave up for Bryce Young was epically bad. Would you move him to the Falcons risking him turning it around and having to play him twice a year for a decade. That one would hurt.

If I was betting I just think Adams to the Jets just makes too much sense.
 
Would the Raiders gm actually trade Adams to the Chiefs if it returned more then say the Rams?
The answer to that had better be "Hell, yes!". You take the best deal for your team. I don't give [insert naughty language reference here] which team gets him, the job is to extract the most value.
This 100%.

Any GM who says they won't trade someone to a team offering a better because they don't wanna make that team better is a loser with a loser's mentality. Now if its something like, "we wanna do right be the player" or something of that ilk that's different. But that doesn't apply here.
Honestly, if the player doesn't have a no trade clause the GM should trade them for the most value regardless of destination. The "right by the player" stuff is what you the media when you fail to extract the expected value.
Agreed. Let's add a scenario to test resolve. Your the Panthers gm. We all know what you gave up for Bryce Young was epically bad. Would you move him to the Falcons risking him turning it around and having to play him twice a year for a decade. That one would hurt.

If I was betting I just think Adams to the Jets just makes too much sense.
It depends on the offer. If the best offer is from the Falcons but it's only a, IDK, fifth rounder than you probably hold him. Hopefully he has more value as a backup on his rookie contract.

If Young is in a contract out year... You think about it more.

But you make a good point as there are a lot more variables and you have to think about the financial implications for the team. But even then fans never boycott a team and only a statistically insignificant % ever switch loyalty to another team. Trust me on that one...I'm a Raiders fan. So, yes you could consider the offer from the Falcons if it has more value to the team, which is a measurement that can only be determined in hindsight, than his value as a backup QB.
 
What about the Titans? Levis could use a wr1. Anybody shakin' in their boots with that line up now? Could be a dark horse. Plus-Not in same division.
 
I don't think he will bring that much in a trade return. He is effectively on a 1 year contract, is currently hurt, and is getting up there in age. I would love to see him in Pittsburgh, but even a 3rd seems pretty expensive.
 
What about the Titans? Levis could use a wr1. Anybody shakin' in their boots with that line up now? Could be a dark horse. Plus-Not in same division.
I have my doubts about Levis. As a UK fan I posted my thoughts on him pre draft. Go look it up.
Yeah Yeah we all do. So what they "sell sell sell Mortimer"?
No, they are stuck with Levis. Enjoy.
Enjoy what? NOT a TITANS FAN. fyi
 
What about the Titans? Levis could use a wr1. Anybody shakin' in their boots with that line up now? Could be a dark horse. Plus-Not in same division.
I have my doubts about Levis. As a UK fan I posted my thoughts on him pre draft. Go look it up.
Yeah Yeah we all do. So what they "sell sell sell Mortimer"?
No, they are stuck with Levis. Enjoy.
Enjoy what? NOT a TITANS FAN. fyi
Ok, just enjoy anything then.
 
Adams has a 25M cap hit, so I am not sure what team is going to be able to take that.. Raiders are going to have to eat alot or probably aren't getting much for him.

Just not sure at 31, he is worth what you are going to pay for him..
 
Adams has a 25M cap hit, so I am not sure what team is going to be able to take that.. Raiders are going to have to eat alot or probably aren't getting much for him.

Just not sure at 31, he is worth what you are going to pay for him..
He will be 32 in less than 3 months, not to split hairs.
 
Time to SELL! His value will never be higher than what these rumors generate and by the time he's assimilated to a new offense and syncs up with his new QB it will be week 18.

One possible exception is back w/ Rogers in NYJ.
No offense but I don’t think it’s going to take one of the best wrs that’s ever played 12 weeks to get acclimated to a new team and offense.

None taken. And I disagree. He's no spring chicken and hasn't looked great in his current role.

Where is a 32yr OLD WR going to go mid-season and dominate thinking this probably takes ~3 weeks to get done, 50/50 chance of a bye mixed in, probably playing limited snaps first 1-2 games, and then still has to break up the existing QB:WR1 love-fest, and still get on same page with QB.

I'll stand by statement... outside of rejoining Rogers in NYJ... this pre-trade hype will be the most value he holds in 2024. I'm shopping him.
 
I also wonder how much Adams would be willing to modify his current contract for the right suitor to chase a ring. It's the one thing he doesn't have and father time is against him.
 
Adams has a 25M cap hit
Seeing everyone all over keep repeating this and that number is not relative to any team acquiring him in a trade. That's his cap hit with the Raiders which takes into account prorated bonus payments. Those bonus payout hits to the cap don't follow him to his new team.

His base salary plus per game bonus works out to $17.5m. Since are 4 games in the books already that is now down to about $13.5m. That's the cap hit anyteam acquiring him has to deal with and it gets about a million lower every week he's not traded.
 
I also wonder how much Adams would be willing to modify his current contract for the right suitor to chase a ring. It's the one thing he doesn't have and father time is against him.
If by modify you mean pay cut no chance. Everyone is going to say he wants out of Vegas because they are not winning but he's been wanting a new contract from them all off-season and IMO that's what this is all about.

Now I'll add he knows his $71M in base salary due the next two years is not real. That's again his issue with the Raiders because none of that money is guaranteed and I don't think the Raiders have any intention of paying it which makes him a lame duck. So he wants an extension and if the guarantees are right he'll take less then $71M due to him over 25-26. That may look like a modification, and could be used to lower his current base salary, but he's not taking an actual pay cut to get out of town. He wants guaranteed money past this season.
 
Time to SELL! His value will never be higher than what these rumors generate and by the time he's assimilated to a new offense and syncs up with his new QB it will be week 18.

One possible exception is back w/ Rogers in NYJ.
No offense but I don’t think it’s going to take one of the best wrs that’s ever played 12 weeks to get acclimated to a new team and offense.

None taken. And I disagree. He's no spring chicken and hasn't looked great in his current role.

Where is a 32yr OLD WR going to go mid-season and dominate thinking this probably takes ~3 weeks to get done, 50/50 chance of a bye mixed in, probably playing limited snaps first 1-2 games, and then still has to break up the existing QB:WR1 love-fest, and still get on same page with QB.

I'll stand by statement... outside of rejoining Rogers in NYJ... this pre-trade hype will be the most value he holds in 2024. I'm shopping him.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree, but I basically feel the exact opposite of you about everything here lol
 
I also wonder how much Adams would be willing to modify his current contract for the right suitor to chase a ring. It's the one thing he doesn't have and father time is against him.
If by modify you mean pay cut no chance. Everyone is going to say he wants out of Vegas because they are not winning but he's been wanting a new contract from them all off-season and IMO that's what this is all about.

Now I'll add he knows his $71M in base salary due the next two years is not real. That's again his issue with the Raiders because none of that money is guaranteed and I don't think the Raiders have any intention of paying it which makes him a lame duck. So he wants an extension and if the guarantees are right he'll take less then $71M due to him over 25-26. That may look like a modification, and could be used to lower his current base salary, but he's not taking an actual pay cut to get out of town. He wants guaranteed money past this season.
Idk. You don't think he would take a haircut for a chance at a superbowl? Eventually, how many 10s of millions does he need?
 

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