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WR Elijah Moore, CLE (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Not exactly what people envisioned when they drafted him.
massraider
Footballguy
Right. They drafted him. So they were right then, but wrong now?
It'll be good for him to get away from the Jets, and to the stability and winning culture of Cleveland.
daveR
Footballguy
What makes Hardman better? IIRC, Moore has better hands, too.
I would have taken Moore instead of Cooks at Dallas.
massraider
Footballguy
I think Corey Davis is a decent, not great, but decent #2 WR. He's overmatched as a #1, as he proved in Tennessee. He's missed some games in NY, but injuries happen. Hardman missed more games last year than Davis ever has in a season. Moore was a great prospect, who had a good rookie year, and then the wheels fell off everyone who wasn't Garrett Wilson last year. He's still very much an unknown, but one would easily be a solid #2 behind Cooper.
Here's the thing that gets me. Both Hardman and especially Lazard have done basically nothing in their careers, despite playing with 2 of the 3 best QBs of the last decade. Both had every chance to be a top guy and failed miserably. They aren't going to be better on the Jets, even if Rodgers goes there, its likely not going to be at a level of back-to-back MVP Rodgers.
Lazard's best season wouldn't be among Davis's top 3, and they are the same age. He's also had every bit as much trouble staying healthy. Lazard has only played 4 more games over the last 3 seasons. Even last year (statistically Lazard's best) he only had 11 more YPG than Davis, and that was with infinitely better QB play. Also, while Lazard has been a solid blocker in the past, he was actually the worst blocker out of these 4 WRs last season, the best was Hardman believe it or not.
Hardman to me is a returner/gadget player, and that's it. If he had anything more to offer Andy Reid would have gotten it out of him. The only way this swap out of WRs works out for NY in my opinion, is if the version we got of Elijah Moore last season is just who he is going forward. Right now that seems like the outlier season, based on his draft status, college production, and rookie season, but maybe it sticks. If not, the Jets have spent this offseason making it harder for Rodgers (assuming he comes there, which seems inevitable) to succeed.
I like Moore's upside but let's not forget how good Cooks is when he's not on the worst offense in the NFL.
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
Random garbage stat with not enough #s to be significant as @fbgchase should know.
Since Katrina hit in 2005, zero major hurricanes have hit New Orleans. Using the "Jets suck at drafting WRs in round 2" logic, New Orleans has little to no chance of getting hit by a hurricane going forward as numerous hurricanes have happened since then and not a single one has hit New Orleans.
It is too bad they did not draft any of those four in round one, as they have had a 100% hit rate with Garrett Wilson there, and clearly Stephen Hill would be a 10X pro bowler by now if only he had been drafted in round one.
Welker went from cut in SD to good in Miami to great in NE. It helped going from the likes of Joey Harrington to the GOAT.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
He's going to open up 11-personell/3-WR options, single back, shotgun, pistol, cluster formations. Add, landing that 3rd wideout helps to develop a 4th WR making it easier to run empty sets.
They play in a division with the best 3WR package in the league, so Stefanski must have felt envious and vulnerable anytime he 'tried' matching up with Nati. You know he had visions and wanted that 3rd WR.
The team is leveraging Watson returning to form. I think it's reasonable that Watson plays much better.
This is the biggest offensive move they've made this offseason so what is this all about?
Betting on complimentary parts fitting together and improving.
The risk is that they are not only betting on Watson returning to form, they believe DPJ gets better, and are also betting on the untapped potential of Eli.
I liked Moore coming out, but he hasn't been that productive. This is a move to get the entire passing game off the ground which 'should' allow everyone to improve but he would NOT be singled out to be a key player, more of a complimentary player IMHO.
Lots of moving parts increases risk but if they hit...
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Santana Moss made a nice career for himself in DC after he left NY.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
What are you talking about? That post is all centered on Elijah Moore
Were you just joking?
Moore's new teammate would be one.
jabarony
Footballguy
Who would that be?
Cooper
jabarony
Footballguy
Oh. Cooper has been good everywhere he’s been. I was thinking more asking the lines of Moore level (subpar) production, that took off in new scenery.
Cooper absolutely tanked his last season and a half with the Raiders. He's the absolute definition of what you asked in your original question.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
How many WRs taken in the Top 35 picks of the Draft at WR were ever traded so early into their careers?
Miami drafted Randal Thrill Hill in 1991 and promptly traded him to Phoenix before he really had a chance to suit up
Hill held out 25 days in camp before he reported or signed his deal, that didn't sit well with Don Shula
-Miami took Hill No 23 overall and traded him for a 1st rd pick the following year before camp opened, that's wild.
-Miami ended up with the No 7 pick in '92 and took Troy Vincent, All-Pro and major role in the players' association over the years.
jabarony
Footballguy
Cooper was go
My bad - poorly written. Cooper was good, then bad, then change of scenery. I meant a rookie never-was. No worries, I'll drop the dumb subject.
Chemical X
Footballguy
fair points, but davis was the 5th overall pick in 2017 and lazard an undrafted FA. Davis played 22 out of 33 games for the jets, lazard has played 30 in the same time frame. i don’t think lazard had a chance to prove he was a #1, i mean, gb had davante adams catching 125 balls a year. lazard seems to be improving and moving forward towards a solid #2, while davis seems to be paid based on potential and draft position. my .02.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Yes, but it’s not like he had much value anyway.
agreed, but it just about kills any that he had
JohnnyU
Footballguy
That’s a given
That's a pretty narrow window to fit. ETA-Cooks was one but he was after year 3, as close as I could think off other then one you mentioned.
All good, I thought point of what you were asking was if a change of scenery helped a WR who was thought of as good but underperforming. Via trade you probably won't find a ton of them, but probably a decent amount that broke out later when they got on a new team. Now they might not have been thought of as "good" before but someone already mentioned Welker. Cris Carter is another one. Brandin Lloyd is my poster child for late breakouts but he was on his 4th team when he finally broke out, that dude had one odd career.
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daveR
Footballguy
No. I guess I wasn't clear. I agree with what you wrote and I added the hands part. To me, Hardman wasn't an upgrade. To the Jets, I guess he was. I'm asking why. What do they see that makes them think it was worthwhile dumping Moore?
Deamon
Footballguy
Might have been more than pure talent. That whole Moore fiasco last year, demanding a trade, etc. etc. ... they might have just wanted him gone. Or maybe he wanted to be gone without going public about it this time. Or even more likely, maybe Aaron wanted no part of him for whatever reason.
rockaction
Footballguy
This has probably been said but maybe the Jets were acquiring a second round pick as compensation for Rodgers. They might have jettisoned somebody they deemed expendable and gotten a pick they could use in a trade.
I hope so, because I'm awfully concerned with what the Jets are doing. Sounds like a meddlesome owner. The signings and trading aren't making much sense.
I hope so, because I'm awfully concerned with what the Jets are doing. Sounds like a meddlesome owner. The signings and trading aren't making much sense.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
As an Elijah Moore GM, I'm pleased with this outcome. Let's see what happens.
fatness
Footballguy
That was my first thought also --- that they upgraded their 3rd round pick to a 2nd for Rodgers trade purposes.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I know folks think the Jets didn't get a lot but let's go back to when they invested No 34 in a draft where Chase-Waddle-Reaper were all at the top, those 3 WRs aren't available most years, just look at the '23 Draft, I can't find a single WR that feels like a franchise No 1 out of the box.
That said, the Jets took a very dicey situation and you can point the finger at Moore, even though I love him i agree much of the issue he brought on himself.
That said, this kid has talent and I think he can still make a name for himself
That said, the Jets go from 34 to like 42, 43...yes I know they had to part with a 3rd to move up yada yada yada but they still manage to get back in the game and strike.
So many teams just release guys like this who turn on their own franchise, Moore is lucky to land on a team where there isn't a clear pecking order with Watson
I think DeShaun will make great use out of Elijah Moore
Elijah was very consistent and pretty darn good where anyone not named Zach Wilson was under center, they all seemed to find Moore.
That list includes Mike White, Joe Flacco and Josh Johnson who has now been on 14 NFL teams
Is there a good reason Johnson is not already a broadcaster? He has inside info on half the league.
Bottom Line, I give the Jets a solid B/B+ in that trade and I think Cleveland hit a home run, "A" for me but I'm biased.
Was no fun rooting for Moore on the Jets and I bought into him a lot when he was coming out of college.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
At the Combine, prior to trading for Moore.
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MATTHEW BERRY'S 23 MOST INTERESTING THINGS HE HEARD AT NFL COMBINE
12. Cleveland's offense is going to be really interesting next year. Look for the Browns to add a speed wide receiver this off-season to go with Amari Cooper. One source told me “They are really going to open up the offense. Go five wide. Pass a lot. This is going to be Deshaun Watson's offense, not Nick Chubb's. They will pass a lot more than folks expect.”
I was told to go look at the Browns-Steelers game from Week 18. In that game, the opening kickoff temperature was in the 30's. Cold as hell and the Over/Under was 39.5. People expected a low scoring, cold weather, typical AFC North game. Instead, even as cold and windy as the conditions were, Cleveland threw it 29 times while Nick Chubb ran it 12 times in a 28-14 loss for the Browns. Yes, they were down, but my source said that will be much closer to the norm for Cleveland next year. Tons of passing attempts for Watson (likely closer to 40 a game in reasonable weather) with like 12 rushing attempts for Chubb and maybe a few touches for Jerome Ford.
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MATTHEW BERRY'S 23 MOST INTERESTING THINGS HE HEARD AT NFL COMBINE
12. Cleveland's offense is going to be really interesting next year. Look for the Browns to add a speed wide receiver this off-season to go with Amari Cooper. One source told me “They are really going to open up the offense. Go five wide. Pass a lot. This is going to be Deshaun Watson's offense, not Nick Chubb's. They will pass a lot more than folks expect.”
I was told to go look at the Browns-Steelers game from Week 18. In that game, the opening kickoff temperature was in the 30's. Cold as hell and the Over/Under was 39.5. People expected a low scoring, cold weather, typical AFC North game. Instead, even as cold and windy as the conditions were, Cleveland threw it 29 times while Nick Chubb ran it 12 times in a 28-14 loss for the Browns. Yes, they were down, but my source said that will be much closer to the norm for Cleveland next year. Tons of passing attempts for Watson (likely closer to 40 a game in reasonable weather) with like 12 rushing attempts for Chubb and maybe a few touches for Jerome Ford.
Blick
Footballguy
Sound about right for the Browns. Only give your RB and best offensive player 12 carries...
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Nick Chubb is 27 years old, has been in the league for 5 years, has played in 75 games and gotten 1,210 carries for an average of:
16.133 carries per game.
When he first came into the league the Browns did not have Hunt so Chubb was used more as a receiver.
In his first two seasons (32 games) he had 56 receptions for an average of:
1.75 receptions per game.
Hunt filled a role as a 3rd down/short yardage back so over the past three years Chubb played in 43 games with 63 receptions for an average of:
.68 receptions per game.
Nick's average per reception his first two years was around 7.5 yards per reception.
Nick's average per reception over the past 3 years increased to 9 yards per reception.
If the Browns are going to increase passing attempts and if Hunt leaves, it seems obvious that Nick will see more receptions and he 'should' be productive gaining at least one more reception per game for 9 yards which would equal 2 run carries.
If he loses 4 carries per game that would be equal to 2 less carries per game but if he 'increases' his receptions by 2 per game, the net loss would be 0 production.
Obviously, game scripts play a bigger role than a sound bite indicates so if Deshaun creates one or more big leads, the team will utilize Nick more so the carries may equal out in that scenario.
Going to be interesting. Schultz left for the Texans so that may open up some additional targets to all the Cowboys wr's. Where would you rank him right now? Thx
Zac Jackson
@AkronJackson
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55m
Andrew Berry, speaking to CLE reporters at NFL meetings, admitted Elijah Moore was the Browns’ trade target last October. Said Moore has upside + position versatility and said Marquise Goodwin is still one of the league’s fastest WRs at 32.
@AkronJackson
·
55m
Andrew Berry, speaking to CLE reporters at NFL meetings, admitted Elijah Moore was the Browns’ trade target last October. Said Moore has upside + position versatility and said Marquise Goodwin is still one of the league’s fastest WRs at 32.
Fantasy wise I'd greatly prefer Cooks to Moore. Better offense, better player, easier path to targets.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
This is all Moore holders can ask for is another team wanting him and a fresh start. Time to see how good he actually is, ball is in his court.
He may be a decent 3rd wr in fantasy if the Browns get more aggressive and run less.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I'm not sure that is his upside for his career. I do expect Watson to be better in 2023 however, having knocked off the rust, but Cooper is the #1 there and that isn't changing in 2023. Plus, they still like to run the ball with Chubb. IMO the jury is still out on Moore's career. He hasn't exactly gotten off to a great start. I suppose his 500+/5 his rookie year showed some promise, but he regressed after that. Not exactly something that makes one think he's good for 100 receptions as you mentioned.
I guess in theory that could be an "if everything broke right" maximum upside. Hard to imagine but if I tried to build a mental case for it and dream big I'd think back to that 6 game stretch his rookie season where he averaged 8.5 targets and 5.6 receptions a game, which would pro-rate to 144/96 in a 17 game season. That was mainly with Mike White and Flacco while he was a rookie so in year three with a likely much better QB it's not out of realm of possibility. Nothing I would expect, but again you are asking for upside and not projections.
I feel comfortable projecting him as the #2 receiver on the team, would not surprise me in the least if he led the team in receptions. I do think he's a 70 catch guy, that's more of a projection, not upside.
TripItUp
Footballguy
If you are projecting 70 then certainly 90 is a plausible ceiling right?
