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WR Jahan Dotson, PHI (2 Viewers)

SayWhat? said:
FFWhiskey said:
Carson Wentz got benched after 8 games going 2-6 as a starter and throwing 11 TD to 9 INT.

Sam Howell is 2-3 as a starter and has thrown 6 TD to 6 INT.


But apparently Wentz = Bad, Howell = Good.
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Wentz was in something like his 7th season having probably started 100 games. Howell is in his 2nd, starting like his 2nd game. Some of the “Howell = good” is probably because he’s showing more in his first few starts than Wentz was demonstrating in his 100th. Not really a fair apples to apples comparison.
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Didn't Wentz go 11-2 as a starter and was in MVP consideration in his second season? He had 33 TD to 7 INT in 13 games.


Sam Howell wishes he was Carson Wentz. ;)
 
FFWhiskey said:
Carson Wentz got benched after 8 games going 2-6 as a starter and throwing 11 TD to 9 INT.

Sam Howell is 2-3 as a starter and has thrown 6 TD to 6 INT.


But apparently Wentz = Bad, Howell = Good.
Click to expand...
Terrible take. Howell has started what, 6 games? 5 have been positive performances. He's no slam dunk stud but there has been more good than bad by far.
 
Sunday Gravy said:
FFWhiskey said:
Carson Wentz got benched after 8 games going 2-6 as a starter and throwing 11 TD to 9 INT.

Sam Howell is 2-3 as a starter and has thrown 6 TD to 6 INT.


But apparently Wentz = Bad, Howell = Good.
Click to expand...
Terrible take. Howell has started what, 6 games? 5 have been positive performances. He's no slam dunk stud but there has been more good than bad by far.
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No. The terrible take is calling Sam Howell a bright spot and alluding he's in Carson Wentz league.


I'm not even saying Howell is bad the way everyone is saying Wentz who once went 11-2 and threw 33 TD in 13 games is. Okay?

I shouldn't even have to defend this position against a guy who is 2-3 with 6 TD to 6 INT. Maybe he ends up being good, but calling him a bright spot or comparing him to Wentz is the BAD TAKE.


I like players who win games and throw more TD than they do INT. Sorry if you consider that a "bad take". I'm not surprised though, there are people who still think Justin Fields is "good".

People get attached to these garbage QBs who put up big stats in losses.
 
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pollardsvision said:
I'm holding in dynasty, but I could see letting go in redraft.

Probably should have seen it coming when Bieniemy came to town. 11 different players catching passes, including Pringles, Crowders and all the TE's.

Feels an awful lot like every Chiefs WR not named Tyreek.
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This seems like a great take and why it is time to move on from Dotson. He just doesn’t get enough targets to have upside.
 
FFWhiskey said:
SayWhat? said:
FFWhiskey said:
Carson Wentz got benched after 8 games going 2-6 as a starter and throwing 11 TD to 9 INT.

Sam Howell is 2-3 as a starter and has thrown 6 TD to 6 INT.


But apparently Wentz = Bad, Howell = Good.
Click to expand...
Wentz was in something like his 7th season having probably started 100 games. Howell is in his 2nd, starting like his 2nd game. Some of the “Howell = good” is probably because he’s showing more in his first few starts than Wentz was demonstrating in his 100th. Not really a fair apples to apples comparison.
Click to expand...

Didn't Wentz go 11-2 as a starter and was in MVP consideration in his second season? He had 33 TD to 7 INT in 13 games.


Sam Howell wishes he was Carson Wentz. ;)
Click to expand...
You’re comparing what Wentz did in Washington vs what Howell is doing for that same team two years later. Wemtz’s MVP season was 5-6 years and 2 teams removed before his failed season that you are referencing. What in the world does Wentz’s 2017 season for a team that cast him off have to do with with his 2022 season in Washington?

You want to argue that Wentz had had a better career than Howell? Fine. For sure. But that didn’t at all seem to be anywhere near the point of your original post.
 
DocHolliday said:
pollardsvision said:
I'm holding in dynasty, but I could see letting go in redraft.

Probably should have seen it coming when Bieniemy came to town. 11 different players catching passes, including Pringles, Crowders and all the TE's.

Feels an awful lot like every Chiefs WR not named Tyreek.
Click to expand...
This seems like a great take and why it is time to move on from Dotson. He just doesn’t get enough targets to have upside.
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Agreed - Dotson has the talent but there's too wide of a target tree in this offense. Even McLaurin is barely producing here. If we see a concentration of targets more to McLaurin/Dotson, we may have something here, but there's no sign of that happening any time soon.

ETA: another lesson learned for next year is don't just follow the talent, but also seek out narrow target tree offenses.
 
pollardsvision said:
I'm holding in dynasty, but I could see letting go in redraft.

Probably should have seen it coming when Bieniemy came to town. 11 different players catching passes, including Pringles, Crowders and all the TE's.

Feels an awful lot like every Chiefs WR not named Tyreek.
Click to expand...
Good call
 
SayWhat? said:
FFWhiskey said:
SayWhat? said:
FFWhiskey said:
Carson Wentz got benched after 8 games going 2-6 as a starter and throwing 11 TD to 9 INT.

Sam Howell is 2-3 as a starter and has thrown 6 TD to 6 INT.


But apparently Wentz = Bad, Howell = Good.
Click to expand...
Wentz was in something like his 7th season having probably started 100 games. Howell is in his 2nd, starting like his 2nd game. Some of the “Howell = good” is probably because he’s showing more in his first few starts than Wentz was demonstrating in his 100th. Not really a fair apples to apples comparison.
Click to expand...

Didn't Wentz go 11-2 as a starter and was in MVP consideration in his second season? He had 33 TD to 7 INT in 13 games.


Sam Howell wishes he was Carson Wentz. ;)
Click to expand...
You’re comparing what Wentz did in Washington vs what Howell is doing for that same team two years later. Wemtz’s MVP season was 5-6 years and 2 teams removed before his failed season that you are referencing. What in the world does Wentz’s 2017 season for a team that cast him off have to do with with his 2022 season in Washington?

You want to argue that Wentz had had a better career than Howell? Fine. For sure. But that didn’t at all seem to be anywhere near the point of your original post.
Click to expand...

I think we're on the same page. I misread your post. I thought you had said something along the lines of "Howell has shown more in his first few starts than Wentz did in 100".

But upon further review, it looks like I misread your post. That is 100% on me and I apologize for misquoting you.


But overall, I "think" we are in agreeance except I think both Howell and Wentz sucked as starting QBs in DC. Through 5 games as Redskins starters:

Sam Howell: 2-3 record, 1,349 yards, 6 TD, 6 INT

Carson Wentz: 1-4 record, 1,390 yards, 10 TD, 6 INT


So essentially, they're the same player. Howell won 1 more game, Wentz threw for more more yards and TDs. But the outcomes are pretty much identical. Wentz lost a fumble, so he technically had 1 more turnover.

Probably a waste of time though as I think both QBs are trash. But the QB play that got Wentz benched was actually better statistically than what Howell has put up.


...and I get it, Howell is unknown we don't know his "upside". Well we don't know his "downside" either. At least Wentz played good enough early in his career to keep getting chances, if Howell doesn't ball out this year he may never start again.


But as the start of my post indicated, I think we agree more than we disagree on this topic. 🤝


SayWhat? said:
Wentz was in something like his 7th season having probably started 100 games. Howell is in his 2nd, starting like his 2nd game. Some of the “Howell = good” is probably because he’s showing more in his first few starts than Wentz was demonstrating in his 100th. Not really a fair apples to apples comparison.
Click to expand...
 
30 targets...17 catches, that's not a great completion % to target ratio

17 catches, just 140 yds , did score a TD at Philly

I watched him last night, he's not tall and i didn't realize what "5-11" plays like after watching 6-5/230 Nico Collins breaking tackles over the weekend
That said, Dotson came pretty close to connecting on a long TD that would have gotten folks attention this morning
I see some of the talent but the offense is not a great support system for him.
 
Jahan Dotson caught 3-of-5 targets for 30 yards in the Commanders’ Week 5 loss to the Bears.

Dotson’s best catch was an insane second half one-hander... that came out of bounds. Beyond that, it was a stunningly empty box score for Dotson on an evening where Sam Howell attempted 51 throws. Howell went full point guard and seemed more locked onto his second- and third-string friends from last year than Dotson and Terry McLaurin. Frustrating and bizarre. Yet to really connect with Howell this season, Dotson has an extremely disappointing 143 yards through five contests. He just can’t break through for WR3 relevance, and will be highly unlikely to do so for Week 6 vs. Atlanta.
- Rotoworld
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he seems 4th on target priority behind Thomas, McLaurin and Samuel. Mind boggling.
 
It wasn't a TD, but didn't he catch that ball with one hand going out of bounds in the end zone? If he did, that was a beauty.
 
Dawg Pound 69 said:
FFWhiskey said:
Here's how I view it. He is struggling but the Redskins are also losing football games. If he was struggling and Redskins were winning I would be concerned.


Typically, teams start changing things up once they start losing. Sure he's uninvolved and no featured, but the Redskins don't want to keep losing games so eventually production will slide over to him.

Might take a QB change. Not like Sam Howell has a ton of Pedigree. I wouldn't stress too much, at worst he was people's WR3. I think better times are ahead.


Neither the OC or the HC are happy losing games, so while Logan Thomas and Curtis Samuel are nice stories... their production won't last if DC keeps losing.
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Sam Howell is not the problem, he has been one of the few bright spots.
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Not really. At best he's been semi-okay-ish.

He's on pace to take 99 sacks, that isn't all on the o-line. He needs to make quicker decisions and try to take advantage of his mobility when his first read isn't there because he's not getting to his second read nearly fast enough.
 
Chaka said:
Dawg Pound 69 said:
FFWhiskey said:
Here's how I view it. He is struggling but the Redskins are also losing football games. If he was struggling and Redskins were winning I would be concerned.


Typically, teams start changing things up once they start losing. Sure he's uninvolved and no featured, but the Redskins don't want to keep losing games so eventually production will slide over to him.

Might take a QB change. Not like Sam Howell has a ton of Pedigree. I wouldn't stress too much, at worst he was people's WR3. I think better times are ahead.


Neither the OC or the HC are happy losing games, so while Logan Thomas and Curtis Samuel are nice stories... their production won't last if DC keeps losing.
Click to expand...
Sam Howell is not the problem, he has been one of the few bright spots.
Click to expand...
Not really. At best he's been semi-okay-ish.

He's on pace to take 99 sacks, that isn't all on the o-line. He needs to make quicker decisions and try to take advantage of his mobility when his first read isn't there because he's not getting to his second read nearly fast enough.
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I'm no scout, but I think his solid fantasy stats are somewhat obfuscating his effectiveness as a real life NFL QB.
 
pollardsvision said:
I'm holding in dynasty, but I could see letting go in redraft.

Probably should have seen it coming when Bieniemy came to town. 11 different players catching passes, including Pringles, Crowders and all the TE's.

Feels an awful lot like every Chiefs WR not named Tyreek.
Click to expand...
Yup. McLaurin, Dotson & Logan all seeing about 16% of the targets so far. And Samuel is around 14%.

Bieniemy is outsmarting himself. At the very least McLaurin should be seeing around a 20%+ target share.
 
Howell's 6th start I believe. He needs to be more decisive as mentioned and is not getting to his reads fast enough at times, but I really don't think he's the major issue for that offense. That line couldn't block for the run game last night at all vs a dline that has struggled.
 
zamboni said:
rockaction said:
JohnnyU said:
It wasn't a TD, but didn't he catch that ball with one hand going out of bounds in the end zone? If he did, that was a beauty.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was a beauty. It garnered zero fantasy points for anybody who started him. (I was one of those people.)
Click to expand...
My league gives points for catches from 1-5 yards out of bounds. :shrug:

ETA: sarcasm, rock.
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Mine gives double points for one-handed catches out of bounds.
 
Chaka said:
pollardsvision said:
I'm holding in dynasty, but I could see letting go in redraft.

Probably should have seen it coming when Bieniemy came to town. 11 different players catching passes, including Pringles, Crowders and all the TE's.

Feels an awful lot like every Chiefs WR not named Tyreek.
Click to expand...
Yup. McLaurin, Dotson & Logan all seeing about 16% of the targets so far. And Samuel is around 14%.

Bieniemy is outsmarting himself. At the very least McLaurin should be seeing around a 20%+ target share.
Click to expand...
Yesterday they didn't hardly target McLaurin, Dotson or Samuel at all until late in the 4th quarter. McLaurin had 2 targets through Q3 and Dotson had 4 through Q3. Bieniemy is calling plays like he's still got the Chiefs offense on the field. Logan had 9 targets in the first 3, plus Robinson and Gibson also had more.
 
Howell threw it 50+ times and only targeted Dotson like 5 times? All that preseason hype with Terry's lingering turf toe issue and I thought he would be better than this. It doesn't help Howell likes to lock on to Logan Thomas last night
 
Was a sit for me, but still a hold because there isn't a player I see as any better. Added Wan'dale Robinson the other day, says he feels 100% confident in the knee, looks good. Undersized, likely limited to the slot & the short zone. Don't know that MIA is the matchup as they appear. Most of the damage has been done by team's primary (#1WR). But Darius Slayton isn't exactly an elite lead WR.
 
menobrown said:
The QB, RB, TE and OL are not great. The talent on this offense is the WR's and after 3 games the trio of Logan Thomas, Bates and Turner is averaging just one target per game less then Terry/Dotson.

That's not good. Eric B was getting some praise heaped early on but players>plays. He's not properly adjusting IMO to workign with a skill group with totally different skill set then he has in KC.
Click to expand...
I'll revert back to what I was saying on this post I'm quoting myself on.

This offense seems clearly designed to use Terry and Dotson to clear out space.

I began the process a few weeks of going hard after Logan Thomas in every league he's available, and these are all FFPC TE premium leagues. Still went into last night lacking a ton of confidence to start Logan over Dotson and had that call in 3 leagues and split the difference, unfortunately went 2 to 1 for Dotson. Won't be making that same decision anytime soon but I also won't be cutting Dotson. 12/20 leagues and just not enough out there to cut him and would just hope some adjustments occur later but for the time being I won't be putting him(or Terry) in any lineups and Logan Thomas is the play here.
 
menobrown said:
menobrown said:
The QB, RB, TE and OL are not great. The talent on this offense is the WR's and after 3 games the trio of Logan Thomas, Bates and Turner is averaging just one target per game less then Terry/Dotson.

That's not good. Eric B was getting some praise heaped early on but players>plays. He's not properly adjusting IMO to workign with a skill group with totally different skill set then he has in KC.
Click to expand...
I'll revert back to what I was saying on this post I'm quoting myself on.

This offense seems clearly designed to use Terry and Dotson to clear out space.

I began the process a few weeks of going hard after Logan Thomas in every league he's available, and these are all FFPC TE premium leagues. Still went into last night lacking a ton of confidence to start Logan over Dotson and had that call in 3 leagues and split the difference, unfortunately went 2 to 1 for Dotson. Won't be making that same decision anytime soon but I also won't be cutting Dotson. 12/20 leagues and just not enough out there to cut him and would just hope some adjustments occur later but for the time being I won't be putting him(or Terry) in any lineups and Logan Thomas is the play here.
Click to expand...

Spot on. Terrible coaching and game planning for this franchise across the board. This year was always going to be a lame duck pointless season, other than for new ownership to get ushered in and familiar with things, but it’s hilariously terrible how bad every possible element of coaching was this week.

I could go on and on about it but all that matters for this thread is EB seems hellbent on running a system that does not correspond to the players he has to work with. JAGs like Pringle and Crowder were getting rotated in for snaps above Dotson last night and there’s no concerted effort to scheme open either of their two best receivers, which also happen to be two of the 5 best players on the team.

I was skeptical about Bienemy to start because since when is Washington smarter than the rest of the league about anything? Wasn’t sure why it wouldn’t work, but it’s becoming clear. He’ll be cleaning out his office at the end of the year with the rest of the staff and front office.

🇺🇸Dotson 2024 🇺🇸
 
Eric Bieniemy is terrible. Will never be a head coach in the NFL. How do you ride Andy Reid's coattails for that long and run such a vanilla offense?

It is with great sadness that I am cutting Dotson loose this week.
 
For all you guys cutting Dotson, I think you crazy. you crazy man, crazy! When you are't winning, you are going to look at what's working and NOT working. Its pretty clear Terry and Jahan need more touches. Even dumb a Ron will figure that out. I'm betting we'll see it next week. Let's see what happens.
 
ffmail4me said:
For all you guys cutting Dotson, I think you crazy. you crazy man, crazy! When you are't winning, you are going to look at what's working and NOT working. Its pretty clear Terry and Jahan need more touches. Even dumb a Ron will figure that out. I'm betting we'll see it next week. Let's see what happens.
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I’ve been playing a long time and I’ve learned to watch what’s happening, not what I want / think should happen.

I’ll try Michael Wilson from Az and if/when he doesn’t work out I’ll recycle for someone else.
 
I would drop in redraft if I needed some immediate help. I'll keep him stashed in my keeper since Moore and Nico are running things with DK and Olave sprinkled in for flex and bye weeks. Dotson can sit and watch with London.
 
crushedspirit said:
I would drop in redraft if I needed some immediate help. I'll keep him stashed in my keeper since Moore and Nico are running things with DK and Olave sprinkled in for flex and bye weeks. Dotson can sit and watch with London.
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I love London too but dumped him after week 2. Funny the different strategies. Dumped London for Dell. I’m always churning my roster early in the year because we don’t what teams are real which narratives are right and which are wrong.
 
I drop young wrs too early every year. Usually at about week 4/5. I’m tempted but I’m waiting at least through week 7 this year! The oline is rough. I might not be able to hold.
 
This was maybe my biggest miss of the year. I still think he's very good but the offense and Howell are a problem. I worry he's the next Terry McLaurin.
 
Its safe to say there will be major coaching changes coming. New owners aren't going to keep Rivera and Del Rio past this season (Most of us are hoping they are fired now, but worst case we ride out this year) I guess in a redraft I get people dumping him, but I'm happy to have him in all my dynasty leagues. Better days are coming.
 
It's funny because Dotson keeps saying the "right things" in interviews ("I just need to do more with the opportunities given to me") but you watch that out of bounds ball he was thrown... he caught it and he just looked so frustrated to me. That's two weeks in a row end of the game he's looked frustrated and somewhat angry like this. If this continues you'd think he's going to say something not so nice; noted Washington commanders fan Matthew Berry already has lost it. (5 minute watch, 9:49 to 14:50-ish)
 
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The Frankman said:
It's funny because Dotson keeps saying the "right things" in interviews ("I just need to do more with the opportunities given to me") but you watch that out of bounds ball he was thrown... he caught it and he just looked so frustrated to me. That's two weeks in a row end of the game he's looked frustrated and somewhat angry like this. If this continues you'd think he's going to say something not so nice; noted Washington commanders fan Matthew Berry already has lost it. (5 minute watch, 9:49 to 14:50-ish)
Click to expand...

Definitely agree, saw that same look of frustration. He’s a really good dude and will keep it in longer than most, but if this keeps up I’d be shocked if he doesn’t get a little chirpy, at least inside the building.
 
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