JohnnyU
Footballguy
What if Denver eats part or all of that fifth year?
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WR Jerry Jeudy, CLE (2 Viewers)
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Stoneworker
Footballguy
Jeudy's catch rate this year at 69% is the best in his career, and his drop rate is also lowest (only one drop in 5 games played). The problem is not Jeudy.
The problem is Russ not being good/consistent at intermediate throws. Either it's a bomb to Mims, quick read slant/hitch/hook route or a dumpoff to RB/TE. Or he simply bails on the pocket and takes off.
Jeudy's is averaging only 11 ypc, down from career avg, down from a career 14.2 ypc. But Courtland Sutton's ypc is similarly down from 14.3 to 11.1. So the bad ypc efficiency is not unique to Jeudy.
Boston
Footballguy
Not if draft picks are involved…I don’t want BB doing anything with draft picks…nothing…I want all those decisions done by whoever is next.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah shorter passes are going to lead to higher catch rates but that isn't necessarily good. Jeudy is WR47 in yards per route run, 91st in target premium (he percentage of additional fantasy points per target that a wide receiver or tight end generates over and above the other pass receivers on his team), 77th in contested catch rate, 56th in target premium (compares the results Jeudy is getting to other WRs receiving targets in similar situations) and 63rd in EPA. So he's performing like a low end WR2 essentially.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I was thinking Colts, not Patriots
Stoneworker
Footballguy
You appear to be saying his performance is on him. I'm saying it's not
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That is fair. He has certainly flashed effective and efficient play as recent as last year and he was getting deep targets from Russ. Maybe for some reason that's just not what Payton wants from Jeudy here. I don't know but the fact is Jeudy isn't getting it done and I am typically going to blame the player for that.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
My conclusion is also just an opinion so not saying it's definitive. I've watched a number of post-game analyses trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with them and just not seeing a lot of bad play/laziness from WR's. But Russ clearly struggles at times going through his progressions if it's not in the first 20-25 scripted plays. $0.02
I think he's just a bad fit in the system and have always felt that way.
May have been this thread but when they were rumored to hire Payton someone called it a win for Juedy and I was trying to say the opposite. Considering the time frame Payton was with the Saints and that he had a future HOF QB the entire time it was not an overly fantasy friendly WR team. In lare part because so much of the passing game went through the RB's and TE's. You had two WR's that I can think off that were really worth anything for fantasy purposes. Colston who was very good and Thomas who was as great as it gets-fantasy speaking. Juedy stylistically is nothing like those two, you could say polar opposites.
I truly believed early this off-season that Tim Patrick was going to be the primary WR on this team and he or Dulchich would be primary winners of the Payton hire for fantasy purposes. We'll never know on Patrick and who knows on Dulchich but before Patrick had got hurt I had drafted him on 80% of my drafts. Meanwhlie I was over 30 drafts in this year and had not picked Juedy one time, only ended up taking him a few times after he started falling about 3 rounds after his hamstring injury.
All this to say I'm not coming in with an after the fact opinion saying this scheme/offense is not something I thought was good for him. Add on top of that a bevy of excuses which range in validity such as the hamstring injury, a little knee issue and swirling trade rumors and I don't see a player who has played poorly. I just don't. Fantasy speaking it's not been great but that's not the same thing.
I look forward to a change of scenery for him. My opinion of him is less then what it was when he came out for sure but at the same time I think he had more to offer then people are giving him credit.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I got the impression Payton wsan't that high on Dulcich in the off-season.
That's something people have debated. Safe to say what side of his comments I landed on, just hope we can actually find out some time this year who is right.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Not necessarily disagreeing, but IMO it's still inconclusive whether Jeudy is a good/bad fit in Payton's system simply because the current QB isn't executing the system to its full potential.
Obviously if he gets traded then it will be clear Payton himself thinks it's a bad fit and would agree greener pastures likely await.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I wouldn’t call Indy or NE any better situation.
massraider
Footballguy
You said something earlier that's my biggest sticking point: We were told Jerry Jeudy: Precision Route Runner.
I read online, and people are like he cannot get open, he runs crap routes, and it's like hang on here, I was told Isaac Bruce type stuff here.
To be fair, I have no idea if he runs good routes or not.
And you always have to consider: Any guy playing with a train wreck team, might do great somewhere else.
markrc99
Footballguy
I guess this the Denver Broncos these days. Going back to last year, some DL behind their bench, during a game, gets right in Wilson's face, barking his head off. Some people get fired, they pony up draft capital to get Payton & it's Nathaniel Hackett who publicly becomes the scapegoat. Then Payton questions Wilson's commitment, right? He had too much other stuff going on, he needed to focus on being their QB. Then the total collapse against Miami & now it's Jerry Jeudy's turn I guess. Discourse, turmoil, whatever, nobody seems to ever have anybody's back.
Jeudy sucks(?), okay, why is he even out there? Why were they demanding a 1st rd pick for him? That's why he's still there, he totally sucks.... but he's great at the same time. Picking up his 5th year option makes him more appealing, they'd get a compensatory pick regardless. If they're being offered a 3rd rd pick, they should take it & move on. To me this is low-grade, c'mon, stopping hanging this guy, let him go elsewhere & perhaps do better with a 2nd chance. Take the offer that's there & focus on the development of Marvin Mims jr. What is it they're trying to accomplish here?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
For those of you in dynasty leagues, who are selling Jeudy shares, what are you asking? I personally feel it is a bad move to trade for a projected late 2nd. You're obviously not going to get a 1st however, so forget about that, but you might get someone who is projected as an early to mid 2nd to bite. A better move might be to package Jeudy with either picks or players to upgrade at another position.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
IMO the bolded below is key to Jeudy getting traded. But I just can't see another team offering what Payton thinks Jeudy is worth talent-wise (at least high 3rd) and so my prediction is he stays as long as he doesn't start pouting .
Broncos aren't going to just liquidate good players for pennies on the dollar unless they're old and/or a distraction (e.g. R. Gregory, F. Clark).
Payton on Jerry Jeudy. "He’s frustrated I am sure.. He's a talented player. He's very competitive. He's smart. He's a playmaker for us and we need to continue to look for ways for him to make plays." That would include in the slot and on the outside. Payton said he's not keeping track of some of the social media issues with Jeudy as long as it's not a distraction to the team.
Broncos aren't going to just liquidate good players for pennies on the dollar unless they're old and/or a distraction (e.g. R. Gregory, F. Clark).
Payton on Jerry Jeudy. "He’s frustrated I am sure.. He's a talented player. He's very competitive. He's smart. He's a playmaker for us and we need to continue to look for ways for him to make plays." That would include in the slot and on the outside. Payton said he's not keeping track of some of the social media issues with Jeudy as long as it's not a distraction to the team.
Not that it matters, but to clear up reporting, I've been told by sourcing from both teams that the Colts reached out initially to the Broncos about Jeudy, not the other way around.
2/ I can confirm the Broncos were listening on Jeudy (as I reported then) at the trade deadline last year and during the off-season.Obviously, no deal materialized either time.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Broncos need to seriously lower their asking price if they want to move him. I think it would be addition by subtraction for a team looking to begin a difficult rebuild, but they may be too stubborn to take what they can get and move on. Call every interested team in the league this week and ask for highest and best offers, then take whatever comes from that competition and move onto the promising (fresh-minded) rookie who does not walk like a duck.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Now here's a guy I want on my team
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Dude is not going to succeed due to maturity issues. This has been evident since his 2nd season.
jm192
Footballguy
Also, finally give major snaps to Mims
I did not spot the lie he was telling and this goes back to the question I was asking here after his last game when everyone was saying he was sorry because he did not have big stats and that question was what area of his game can you say he's not playing well? How has he regressed from the guy who was putting up big stats at the end of the year last season?
I did not take any of this as him throwing teammates under the bus. It's just truth. He can't design the play, pass protect and throw himself the ball.
Black and Gold
Footballguy
Agreed. A lot of this is click bait and creating stories. When you lose, everyone is to blame. Juedy just hasn't matured enough to walk away from someone trying to get wound up.
It has been speculated the Denver will cut ties with Russell Wilson after next June 1 and bite the proverbial bullet. The cap hit will require the Broncos to shed quite a bit of salary. This is all the more reason that Jeudy likely is moved, even if they have to eat some of his salary.
LawFitz
Footballguy
No, it would not. Cutting Russ would be cap neutral in 2024 and would create ~$6 MM in cap savings in 2025.
Name me a wr who is happy when they DONT get the ball? That would be the vast majority of them. We ready to cut ties Adams, davonta smith and goedert ? (just to name a few from the last couple of weeks)
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Sean Payton may finally be learning how to utilize this guy. Hopefully we'll see more of this going forward.
Jeudy showing off precision route running skills vs. Packers
ETA: fixed link
Jeudy showing off precision route running skills vs. Packers
ETA: fixed link
zamboni
Footballguy
That's a lot of what we saw in training camp, which duped many of us into thinking he was going to really blossom this year. Didn't account for his prima donna nature though.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
he's a WR that gets open at will, due to elite route running... and is stuck in a system with a scrambling/play stretching QB who wasnt giving him the ball when he should have been.
of course he's salty. not only is he not getting the ball to help them win, it's affecting his potential payday
zamboni
Footballguy
True, every WR worth his salt wants to get the ball. He's already got his payday for next year though, having had his 5th year option picked up. He's not making any friends for 2025 though, which may be his last chance to really cash in.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Payton spoke multiple times last week about attempting to utilize Jeudy differently to get him more looks, specifically more use on the outside. He was true to his word and why I thought it could be a sign of things to come. That particular play was clearly scripted coming out of halftime.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I understand most people and metrics that track route running can be questioned on validity; but I don't think any of them have Jerry Jeudy as an elite route runner. Unless we want to say there are 20 WRs in the NFL who are all "elite". He may have that potential, and sure has suffered injuries that have hampered him, but I don't think he should really be considered an elite route runner tbh. His success rate against man is outside the top 10, and his success rate vs zone is barely in the top half, practically below average. I get he constantly gets called out as being a great route runner (especially by himself lol), but I don't think it's translated onto the field.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
"As a receiver, there’s a lot of people you’ve got to depend on," Jeudy told reporters on Tuesday. “You can be open, but if the line don’t do their thing or the quarterback didn't do their job or the (offensive coordinator) don’t put you (in a good spot), it’s a whole lot of stuff that you’ve got to go through as a receiver to be successful."
And this is after a win
-I could see Jerry Jones trading for him and not consult anyone in the building.
He said that after the KC game.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
And the quote is typical click bait missing context. It was not an unsolicited diss of his teammates but in response to Smith questioning his stats.
Agree and was saying as much up thread and was also trying to use what he was saying to back up a point I was trying to get across after that KC game when everyone said he played poorly. My point was asking how did he play poorly? Was his lack of production on him, partly him or just a by-product of the entire team? What was worse about Juedy's play now vs when he was producing last season? People are so quick to paint him as immature, selfish, sorry and take what Smith was spewing as gospel they don't bother to think maybe Juedy is making some valid points. But none of what he was saying seemed in any way to me as throwing people under the bus.
This is a fantasy site so I get it to an extent but sure wish when a WR did not see the ball come his way in a game we could have a deeper conversation then "he's a sorry bum". Which sometimes may be the case, just should not the default because the guy had a bad fantasy game because the ball was not coming his way.
A lot of the same stuff in the Ridley thread.
Speaking of which, I was thinking of this yesterday and unless I'm forgetting someone every single ex-Alabama WR ranges from disappointing to flat out busting in fantasy this season.
Balco
Footballguy
So it was a solicited diss of his teammates.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Could probably tack on Jameson Williams too. Expectations may not have been as high as the others, but also looks like he can barely spell football out there, let alone play it.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Please link to the slightest hint of discord within the Broncos locker room or coaching staff concerning Jeudy (or anything else for that matter).
Balco
Footballguy
Who said there was discord? He responded when asked about his lack of productivity by throwing teammates and coaches under the bus. Some players and coaches do that. Others just accept responsibility.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
There was no discord because no one was thrown any under bus. What exactly about the comment was not factual?
zamboni
Footballguy
To be fair, all of those guys outside of Jeudy have had big years, but there does seem to be some trend with the Alabama WRs since Julio was at his peak. It's the lack of high end consistency that seems to be missing from the Alabama group post-Julio. Starting to seem like a lot of these guys Alabama just dominate at the college level due to the prominence of the program/relative to competition, and they may not be as good as advertised when they hit the big time.
