Interseptopus
Footballguy
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WR Mecole Hardman, KC (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
Interseptopus
Footballguy
and to think 10 minutes ago I was sulking with the 1.3. Hardman may not drop that far but it means a great player will.
Hardman might be a 1.1 for people chasing Hill's numbers. might happen might not but he certainly is a top 3 or 4 pick now
Zyphros
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
wow. I'm surprised by that. Why? if tyreek is gone there are a lot of targets available. a lot. Watkins is as good as gone in 2020
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah I don't see myself reaching for him. I was of the opinion that even if Hill were exonerated they should draft a WR high. Don't think they'll do it but they could still take another. I sure would.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I will certainly take a long look at him but IDK.
Zyphros
Footballguy
Name 1 person that even had Hardman in their top20 rookie picks. If he wasn't viewed even that high, nobody would jump him up to 1.01-1.08.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Bloom thoughts...had him at #19 rookie
19. Mecole Hardman, WR, Georgia - Hardman can do a decent impression of Marquise Brown at his best, and with some development, he could close the gap between him and Brown as football players. He has a fifth gear with oozing athleticism and just started playing wide receiver two years ago. Hardman delivered a 4.33 40 at the combine and could get into the second day if not second round.
19. Mecole Hardman, WR, Georgia - Hardman can do a decent impression of Marquise Brown at his best, and with some development, he could close the gap between him and Brown as football players. He has a fifth gear with oozing athleticism and just started playing wide receiver two years ago. Hardman delivered a 4.33 40 at the combine and could get into the second day if not second round.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Yeah. Who’d consider a guy who Reid obviously envisions as the replacement piece for Hill with a louse like Mahomes throwing to him?
mozzy84
Footballguy
That’s all in the past now. He will be going top ten in every draft from here on out I would guess.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'm happy at 1.3 now that my wr1 has tanked to wr8 and my new wr1 unlikely to fall to me
Looking at other wrs taken early or around him, I like his film best and his destination is incredible. I'm actually surprised people are down playing him
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Name one person who had Butler outside of the top 13 wrs and top 100 rookies? Or Harmon?
Draft position and destination are two extremely important factors. Hardman hit the jackpot
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Zyphros
Footballguy
So he goes from UDFA on people's boards and projected 4th-5th rounder to all of a sudden 1.01? I'm not buying what you're selling.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
My early post round 3 rookie list I have him at 1.06. But it is fluid. I might bump Butler back in there still.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
whos boards? innernet message guys?
An NFL team with the best FF QB in football drafted him in the 2nd round......
Interseptopus
Footballguy
KC apparently had him ranked a little higher than an online message board. That grabs my attention definitely.
If he was so bad KC didnt need to TRADE UP for him either
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
he's being talked about as a top 3-5 rookie pick now. Name the last time a WR picked 56th overall was even considered by those with top rookie picks.
2nd round WR's usually go in the mid/late 1st or rookie drafts. Usually they aren't even considered in the top 3-5. This draft class sucks for top rookie picks.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He wasn’t on anyone’s radar because he wasn’t one of the big names thrown around by analysts and in mocks (I’ll admit to saying “who?” when he was drafted - but things have surely changed. I’ll agree that he’ll now likely be overdrafted but it’s surely a prime landing spot.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don’t think anyone knows. Tyreek Hill looked like nothing but a burner when he was drafted. Georgia pass offense wasn’t very good or innovative, Andy Reid will be smarter.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Yes this class sucks.....especially the rbs....the big fast wrs went to nepats...titans...seattle...hollywood brown went to Baltimore....shrug...it is what it is
Interseptopus
Footballguy
unfortunately, even if you concede these points, it wont be the last time we hear this
The thing about this draft is that there are potentially a few gems, and it's a matter of finding those.
I agree, his college history leaves a lot to be desired, and hes a risk, but hes no more of a risk than Metcalf in SEA, AJ Brown in TEN, M Brown in BAL. In fact, he has more upside than any of those 3 considering his qb and offensive scheme.
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IMO- largest range of rookie WR outcomes- playing with an elite QB in an electric offense with an opportunity to receive immediate playing time and possessing a skill set perfectly tailored to his incoming team.
Could also never see the field as he was not particularly highly regarded. Appears as if he was drafted for need- which for me is a red flag.
How high he goes is all about risk aversion for the owner on the clock.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Personally I dont really see anyone else who would force him to the bench. I see a lot of that first sentence.
Drafted for need, sure, but there were other players of similar abilities and better college production available at the time they traded up to take Hardman.
I'm trying to rank him for my board and am going back and forth. I feel like he could be top 5 but at the same time that scares me. He seems as likely to have success as any of the other WR right now.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Demarcus Robinson has played well when he has been given the chance. Robinson doesn't have the speed and is also a character risk. But, when he has seen the field, he has played well.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'm back and forth. Full disclosure: I hold 1.3 (unearned). I could certainly take the risk and take him. I also own several later 1st rounders, so 1.3 is a luxury of some kind as I can take a WR later to soften the blow of a potential bust. A lot to think about over the next 5 days before my draft
I see equal risk but more upside than almost all of the other WRs
Thanks for this. I forgot about him. certainly possible, but I think KC really thrives on Hills speed. Hardman is a great replacement for Hill... I admit it's not a plug and play right now
Truebluey
Footballguy
While overall I agree, there is nothing about Metcalf being paired up with Wilson that "sucks".
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Just the volume part of the equation. Wilson is so damn efficient though, and Metcalf is going to open things up big time for that offense... I like it for Carson, Penny, Wilson and the whole offense there.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I love guys without imagination. I hope my leaguemates feel likewise but I doubt it.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
You're not wrong about how rookie WR prospects are viewed, but I wonder if it's time we adjust our thinking a bit.
People seem to really like 2nd round rookie RBs even though 1st round rookie RBs over the last 5-6 years have a SIGNIFICANTLY higher hit rate than 2nd round rookie RBs.
Meanwhile people seem to really dislike 2nd round rookie WRs even though 2nd round rookie WRs have actually outperformed 1st round rookie WRs the last 5-6 years. Heck, I haven't run the numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if 2nd round rookie WRs have hit at a similar rate to WRs drafted in the top 10 overall in that span.
If we limit it to 2nd round rookie WRs that had a high fantasy ADP (meaning they landed in a good NFL situation) the hit rate is actually pretty impressive.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I don't know much about him but i heard 3 things - he's really fast, raw/inexperienced, and he's a good special teams player.
That doesn't say "we drafted him to immediately contribute on offense" to me. It says "we need to replace hills return ability and get a vertical threat to make the offense work".
I have confidence in Reid's ability to coach up receivers for nfl purposes, but not for fantasy. Who has he coached up besides hill? He got a great season from Terrell Owens, but he was already great. He got big years out of kelce, but again, he was already great. He's gotten big receiving production from his running backs. But i think people are forgetting the Todd Pinkston says and focusing on the tyreek days a little too much.
I understand the upside, but a few things to consider. When you buy on upside, you need to get a discount. If you pay full price for his production, you're accepting all the risk and hoping he was worth it. To make that worth it, you have to believe he's got higher upside than any of the other guys. I see about 5 receivers with similar upside and better floors, so i'm not going to own him anywhere.
That doesn't say "we drafted him to immediately contribute on offense" to me. It says "we need to replace hills return ability and get a vertical threat to make the offense work".
I have confidence in Reid's ability to coach up receivers for nfl purposes, but not for fantasy. Who has he coached up besides hill? He got a great season from Terrell Owens, but he was already great. He got big years out of kelce, but again, he was already great. He's gotten big receiving production from his running backs. But i think people are forgetting the Todd Pinkston says and focusing on the tyreek days a little too much.
I understand the upside, but a few things to consider. When you buy on upside, you need to get a discount. If you pay full price for his production, you're accepting all the risk and hoping he was worth it. To make that worth it, you have to believe he's got higher upside than any of the other guys. I see about 5 receivers with similar upside and better floors, so i'm not going to own him anywhere.
bostonfred
Footballguy
To be fair though, he did get a couple big years from djax and maclin. So there is some ceiling.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
The thing that is interesting to me about Hardman is if all KC wanted was a burner they had their pick of the litter at the end of the 2nd round with both Metcalf and Campbell still on the board as well. Yet despite that they still felt the need to not only take Hardman over those guys, but to trade up for him.
Maybe, as you mentioned, special teams was the difference. But maybe they just like him that much better as a prospect too.
As for buying on someone's upside, if Hardman's upside is even 80% of Tyreek (still a longshot I know, but we're talking upside) then a mid 1st in a weak draft class is not even close to buying at his upside value. He'll be worth a lot more than that if he hits that upside.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He doesn’t necessarily need to be pushed to the bench. Just because he’s built like Hill and has speed close to Hill doesn’t make him Hill. They may just want him as a pure field stretcher and he may see only a handful of deep targets a game. They still have Kelce, Watkins and Damien Williams that could be ahead of him and it’s possible guys like Demarcus Robinson or Sammie Coates stay ahead of him.
He’s also a great special teams player so maybe part of why they moved up to get him was to replace Hill there.
of course he could step right in and replace Hill - but it’s far from a given.
