WR Odell Beckham, Jr., Free Agent (2 Viewers)

[Ilov80s]

53 players vs 12 vs 25

That is part of it. NFL is the most profitable sports league in the world bringing in about $333 million a year per team. The median MLB team had an opening day payroll of $140 million. Last year the median NFL team had a payroll of $146 million. So it is more than just about the number of home games or the number of players on a team. The Miami Heat have $152 million on the books for the upcoming season which is more than all but 11 NFL teams paid last year. The NFL players just have a really crappy contract and compensation structure. 

 

[Al O'Pecia]

53 players vs 12 vs 25

Exactly, plus also 8 home games vs. 41 vs. 81 to generate ticket revenue to help pay those salaries.

EDIT: I guess 10 home games for the NFL since they make fans pay for those horrible preseason games.

 

[Ridcully]

NFL player contracts suck. One of the 10 best players in the game gets 5 year $95 million. Mozgov, a below average NBA Center, got 4 years $64 million. Which is basically the same guaranteed cash as OBJ. If he played baseball, he'd sitting on a $250 million+ deal. 

And if he played hockey, he’d be sitting on a $50 million total deal.  Not sure I’m making a point or anything, just think it’s interesting comparing across the sports

 

[Ilov80s]

And if he played hockey, he’d be sitting on a $50 million total deal.  Not sure I’m making a point or anything, just think it’s interesting comparing across the sports

Nobody watches hockey which is why. The Thursday Night NFL Preseason game between Cleveland and Philly had more viewers than almost all of the Stanley Cup finals games this year. 

 

[btemp]

Saying the roster size difference between the NFL and NBA as a reason for larger NBA contracts is a misnomer. The NFL is far more profitable and (relative to other sports) has the worst player contracts.

A big reason is the size of the rosters and short player shelf life (ironically). Prevents players from being more organized. Further, unfortunately star players (like Rogers and Brady) have done little in terms of getting players organized. 

 

[CalBear]

The roster sizes are important because they reduce the bargaining power of any individual, and thus reduce the collective bargaining power unless the union is all on the same page, which is very hard in the NFL. The NBA and MLB are way more personality-driven; Lebron James and Steph Curry are way bigger contributors to the bottom line of the NBA than anyone in the NFL is, even the Aaron Rodgers and Tom Bradys. 

That said, the owners are crooks and no one should begrudge the players what they're willing to scrape out of the billionaires.

 

[Faust]

OBJ's new deal brings added pressure, responsibilities

 

[ourmanflint]

Congrats Giant fans. Your team just sealed its fate wrapping up all that money into this head case. Why would you pay someone $19 million/year who isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning or even Drew Brees? The other Manning can barely chuck the ball downfield anymore and if you don't find someone else to throw him the ball, you've got nothing. Literally nothing. Bad, bad move.

 

[TimmyG]

Congrats to Odell!

 

[Ilov80s]

Congrats Giant fans. Your team just sealed its fate wrapping up all that money into this head case. Why would you pay someone $19 million/year who isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning or even Drew Brees? The other Manning can barely chuck the ball downfield anymore and if you don't find someone else to throw him the ball, you've got nothing. Literally nothing. Bad, bad move.

What’s their choice? Let one of the best young players in the league walk away in his prime?

 

[ourmanflint]

What’s their choice? Let one of the best young players in the league walk away in his prime?

Is that what its all about? Or are the building a team? It's still a team game right? It's insane to waste this kind of money when you don't even have a prospect capable of throwing him the ball. It seems like a move that comes from fear rather than intelligence and knowledge of the game. Manning has one left year if that. What kind of year is that going to be? Who's throwing him the ball after that? WR's don't make NFL franchises. QB's and defense do.

 

[btemp]

Is that what its all about? Or are the building a team? It's still a team game right? It's insane to waste this kind of money when you don't even have a prospect capable of throwing him the ball. It seems like a move that comes from fear rather than intelligence and knowledge of the game. Manning has one left year if that. What kind of year is that going to be? Who's throwing him the ball after that? WR's don't make NFL franchises. QB's and defense do.

Sorry, this is very short-sighted.

First, his deal is very similar (media hype notwithstanding) to the deal Mike Evans signed. 

The reality in today's NFL is there is no salary cap. Teams have so many options to fit under the cap its ridiculous. Notice how there are no cap-strapped teams anymore? Teams can retain whatever talent they want. 

Second, who do you think is going to be throwing the ball to OBJ in a year or two? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy probably a rookie on 5 year team friendly contract. Look at that! And who's going to be a boon to his development? Why one of the best WRs in the NFL!

 

[Slider]

Giants were kinda f'd either way. So they took the fans side and spent. 

 

[ourmanflint]

Sorry, this is very short-sighted.

First, his deal is very similar (media hype notwithstanding) to the deal Mike Evans signed. 

The reality in today's NFL is there is no salary cap. Teams have so many options to fit under the cap its ridiculous. Notice how there are no cap-strapped teams anymore? Teams can retain whatever talent they want. 

Second, who do you think is going to be throwing the ball to OBJ in a year or two? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy probably a rookie on 5 year team friendly contract. Look at that! And who's going to be a boon to his development? Why one of the best WRs in the NFL!

I don't see OBJ booning anyone. Is he one of the best WR's in the league? Sober yes. Will he stay sober on that contract? Time will tell but we'll see. The guy was a head case on his rookie contract.

 

[Ilov80s]

Is that what its all about? Or are the building a team? It's still a team game right? It's insane to waste this kind of money when you don't even have a prospect capable of throwing him the ball. It seems like a move that comes from fear rather than intelligence and knowledge of the game. Manning has one left year if that. What kind of year is that going to be? Who's throwing him the ball after that? WR's don't make NFL franchises. QB's and defense do.

I agree they should have taken a QB at 2 and not Barkley. That was ridiculous given their QB situation and the recent investment they had made in pass catchers. As for OBJ, here is why I think letting him go was impossible:

1. Football wise, he is one of the few non-QBs who are legitimate difference makers on the offensive side of the ball. It is very difficult to find a player at the level of OBJ, Julio, AB, DJ or Gronk. A single player whom an entire offense can be based around. It's just their yards but the attention they draw from defenses and space they create for everyone else. 

2. The real goal for the owners of the New York Giants is to make money and OBJ sells jerseys, tickets, etc. It's a great investment, OBJ is one of the few real superstars in football. We are fantasy nerds so we know all these players but in the more general consciousness, Beckham is probably one of the 4 or 5 most famous/popular players in the NFL. 

 

[Soulfly3]

I dunno. 

 

[ourmanflint]

I agree they should have taken a QB at 2 and not Barkley. That was ridiculous given their QB situation and the recent investment they had made in pass catchers. As for OBJ, here is why I think letting him go was impossible:

1. Football wise, he is one of the few non-QBs who are legitimate difference makers on the offensive side of the ball. It is very difficult to find a player at the level of OBJ, Julio, AB, DJ or Gronk. A single player whom an entire offense can be based around. It's just their yards but the attention they draw from defenses and space they create for everyone else. 

2. The real goal for the owners of the New York Giants is to make money and OBJ sells jerseys, tickets, etc. It's a great investment, OBJ is one of the few real superstars in football. We are fantasy nerds so we know all these players but in the more general consciousness, Beckham is probably one of the 4 or 5 most famous/popular players in the NFL. 

Good points and thoughtfully presented. Although one player isn't going to keep players in the stands. Ultimately it will be a winning team. I hate the idea of putting so much money into one player and a player with questionable behavior at that. I feel very strongly that this contract will become a problem for the Giants that they will need to expunge in the near term. Mad money is what I'd call it.

Julio and Gronk have capable QBs for the foreseeable future. NYG does not. If I'm rebuilding a franchise I do not do it with a max contract on a WR. I spend on defense until I find a QB worth my time.

 

[Ilov80s]

Good points and thoughtfully presented. Although one player isn't going to keep players in the stands. Ultimately it will be a winning team. I hate the idea of putting so much money into one player and a player with questionable behavior at that. I feel very strongly that this contract will become a problem for the Giants that they will need to expunge in the near term. Mad money is what I'd call it.

Julio and Gronk have capable QBs for the foreseeable future. NYG does not. If I'm rebuilding a franchise I do not do it with a max contract on a WR. I spend on defense until I find a QB worth my time.

I agree, it is a lot of money. However, the way the salary cap has been going up and the way the money often gets spread around, it might not be too bad. The good part is they can draft a QB and have him very cheap. You want to talk overpaid, it is Eli right now. He is getting $16 mill this year and is slated for $17 next year. I am sure next spring they will cut Eli, then that money is basically shifted to OBJ. They draft a QB on a rookie deal and that lucky SOB steps into an offense with Beckham, Barkley, Engram and Shepard. 

 

[Dismattle]

I cant argue questions on their team building  Believe a team's main focus should be on defense than OLine   They obviously have key positions filled and some players like Bridgewater, and Brissett could be productive  The other core stuff only matters in big games  I mean it's not like they play the Charger/Jaguars every week  Basically unless I hear the Raiders we're talking a Khalil trade?  Think it's just the way the cards fall taking BPA  It's the smart choice along with being savvy trading picks?

But yeah OBJ probably just needs a serviceable QB period

 

[ourmanflint]

I agree, it is a lot of money. However, the way the salary cap has been going up and the way the money often gets spread around, it might not be too bad. The good part is they can draft a QB and have him very cheap. You want to talk overpaid, it is Eli right now. He is getting $16 mill this year and is slated for $17 next year. I am sure they cut Eli, that money is basically shifted to OBJ. They draft a QB on a rookie deal and that lucky SOB steps into an offense with Beckham, Barkley, Engram and Shepard. 

I can't argue with your logic. You are a learned poster but I pose it will be an offense without OBJ because he will self destruct. I don't think (overpaid) primadonnas belong in team sports and the last few Super Bowls prove my point sans Brady. OBJ imho is poison and he will show why this year or next. That's why its stupid money. 

 

[Chaka]

Congrats Giant fans. Your team just sealed its fate wrapping up all that money into this head case. Why would you pay someone $19 million/year who isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning or even Drew Brees? The other Manning can barely chuck the ball downfield anymore and if you don't find someone else to throw him the ball, you've got nothing. Literally nothing. Bad, bad move.

6.6 receptions, 94 yards and 0.8 TDs per game and the understanding that in two years (three max) we will all be calling him underpaid relative to his peers (and because of the salary cap increase) is why you do that deal.

 

[Chaka]

Is that what its all about? Or are the building a team? It's still a team game right? It's insane to waste this kind of money when you don't even have a prospect capable of throwing him the ball. It seems like a move that comes from fear rather than intelligence and knowledge of the game. Manning has one left year if that. What kind of year is that going to be? Who's throwing him the ball after that? WR's don't make NFL franchises. QB's and defense do.

Okay so you let him walk, replace him with a lesser player and still haven't dealt with the QB situation.

So, then what?

 

[Chaka]

I can't argue with your logic. You are a learned poster but I pose it will be an offense without OBJ because he will self destruct. I don't think (overpaid) primadonnas belong in team sports and the last few Super Bowls prove my point sans Brady. OBJ imho is poison and he will show why this year or next. That's why its stupid money. 

Would you expand on the bolded a bit please? Is OBJ in the drug program or does he have a history of off field conduct detrimental to the team? I honestly don't remember any of those things but I don't pay attention to the NFL nearly as much as I used to.

Why is it you think he is such a head case?

 

[ourmanflint]

Would you expand on the bolded a bit please? Is OBJ in the drug program or does he have a history of off field conduct detrimental to the team? I honestly don't remember any of those things but I don't pay attention to the NFL nearly as much as I used to.

Why is it you think he is such a head case?

The most prominent memory I have of OBJ is him banging his head into the practice net on the sidelines. That isn't really a good memory considering what this guy is now getting paid. There is also the video posted online of him which won't get him suspended but is a precursor to what we might expect of him with all this new money. The guy is a primadonna self-absorbed,egotistical me-ist and that rarely works in the NFL. Let's go thru the roster of NFL greats. How many act like this and are key cogs of a Super Bowl team? Sell tickets while you can until this guy self-destructs. Fantasy-wise? Go for it I guess. But franchise-wise? I wouldn't do it. I'd pay AB or Julio whatever they ask. They do everything and never hear a peep. But this guy rubs me the wrong way. 

 

[Chaka]

The most prominent memory I have of OBJ is him banging his head into the practice net on the sidelines. That isn't really a good memory considering what this guy is now getting paid. There is also the video posted online of him which won't get him suspended but is a precursor to what we might expect of him with all this new money. The guy is a primadonna self-absorbed,egotistical me-ist and that rarely works in the NFL. Let's go thru the roster of NFL greats. How many act like this and are key cogs of a Super Bowl team? Sell tickets while you can until this guy self-destructs. Fantasy-wise? Go for it I guess. But franchise-wise? I wouldn't do it. I'd pay AB or Julio whatever they ask. They do everything and never hear a peep. But this guy rubs me the wrong way. 

Don't take this the wrong way but your post really reads as little more than confirmation bias. It seems that you don't like him and are making negative assumptions about anything he does.

Then again you did say he rubs you the wrong way so I guess you know that already.

Why is he a "me first" guy? What did he do that makes you believe that? How do you feel about Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack and Le'Veon Bell? Are they being team first or "me first"? 

 

[Ilov80s]

I just won't judge players based on what I think of their personality. He has never been arrested or failed a drug test. His issues have all been related to what seems to be an obsession with success and winning. He certainly harkens back to the diva WR era of TO, Moss, Chad Johnson etc. He might be flamboyant and temperamental, but by all accounts he is a professional who loves football and works extremely hard. 

 

[Chaka]

I just won't judge players based on what I think of their personality. He has never been arrested or failed a drug test. His issues have all been related to what seems to be an obsession with success and winning. He certainly harkens back to the diva WR era of TO, Moss, Chad Johnson etc. He might be flamboyant and temperamental, but by all accounts he is a professional who loves football and works extremely hard. 

Agreed. He showed up for camp and busted his hump during a contract dispute. Lots of others choose not to.

 

[ourmanflint]

Don't take this the wrong way but your post really reads as little more than confirmation bias. It seems that you don't like him and are making negative assumptions about anything he does.

Then again you did say he rubs you the wrong way so I guess you know that already.

Why is he a "me first" guy? What did he do that makes you believe that? How do you feel about Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack and Le'Veon Bell? Are they being team first or "me first"? 

Just think he's got some kind of issues. Don't know if its anger or egoism or what. I feel strongly that its not smart to sink so much money into a WR like him. I can see where people think he's worth the money, but I think its not smart. Dez showed up and wanted to win but, in the end, he was a cancer. A me-ist. I think OBJ is similar and there will be a similar end. 

 

[Chaka]

Just think he's got some kind of issues. Don't know if its anger or egoism or what. I feel strongly that its not smart to sink so much money into a WR like him. I can see where people think he's worth the money, but I think its not smart. Dez showed up and wanted to win but, in the end, he was a cancer. A me-ist. I think OBJ is similar and there will be a similar end. 

Dez also had confirmed off field issues with bad decision making dating back to college. And I think rumors about him being a cancer are likely overstated.

OBJ doesn't seem to have any history of bad off field behavior and his only legitimate transgression was when he let Josh Norman get to him and lost his mind. That was one game, one that you didn't mention, and I just don't see how that defines him in light of everything else he has done in the field, and everything he hasn't off the field.

Honestly he seems absolutely like a team player who shows up, works hard. produces on game day and makes his team better.

 

[ourmanflint]

Dez also had confirmed off field issues with bad decision making dating back to college. And I think rumors about him being a cancer are likely overstated.

OBJ doesn't seem to have any history of bad off field behavior and his only legitimate transgression was when he let Josh Norman get to him and lost his mind. That was one game, one that you didn't mention, and I just don't see how that defines him in light of everything else he has done in the field, and everything he hasn't off the field.

Honestly he seems absolutely like a team player who shows up, works hard. produces on game day and makes his team better.

I guess he's lucky the video was short. He's been suspended and fined for blowing up on the field which may have cost them the division and that had nothing to do with Norman. I respect your opinion Chaka but I don't feel that $19 million on Beckham is smart for the Giants. He can't make enough difference when they don't have a QB or a defense. I also feel he's shown enough erratic behaviour to question whether he will be a problem in a rebuilding situation which they are sure to face.

 

[Chaka]

I guess he's lucky the video was short. He's been suspended and fined for blowing up on the field which may have cost them the division and that had nothing to do with Norman. I respect your opinion Chaka but I don't feel that $19 million on Beckham is smart for the Giants. He can't make enough difference when they don't have a QB or a defense. I also feel he's shown enough erratic behaviour to question whether he will be a problem in a rebuilding situation which they are sure to face.

I appreciate your opinion and I ask questions because I want to understand more.

But I gotta say that it seems the basis of your opinion is thin and feels based far more upon perception than reality.

Then again, perception is reality.

 

[Chaka]

OBJ averages 106 receptions, 1,500 yards and 13 TDs per 16 games and he'll be 26 in November.

It's a ton of money in 2018 but we all know the nature of NFL contracts means it will be considered below market value in three years tops. And is structured in a way that each year it will impact the cap less and the team will control whether or not any BS contract inflating non-guaranteed balloon payments are either restructured or they cut him.

Manning's successor will likely be a rookie on a cheap contract, or a vet like Bridgewater on a prove-it contract.

I guess they could use help on defense but they are only one season removed from an 11-5 season finishing with the #10D in yards and #2D in points allowed. They have a young talented secondary with Collins & Jenkins and, if he really has got his head on right, Apple. They have a steady 27 year old MLB in Ogletree and a very good edge rusher in Vernon who is 28.  They definitely need to address the LB corps which is aging and has little depth but all along the defensive line they are remarkably young and deep.

Bottom line is, despite the dumpster fire that was 2017, this Giants team is a lot better than people think. And OBJ's contract won't be prohibitive to them getting better in the future.

 

[Chaka]

We all know the Giants quit on McAdoo last year but in fairness you can't say that OBJ quit and I think it is also fair to suggest that the the loss of OBJ had a non-zero impact on the team in the W-L columns.

I doubt they make the playoffs even with OBJ last year but I guarantee they would not be in position to draft Barkley.

 

[Faust]

Odell Beckham won't feed into Jalen Ramsey's antics

 

[Faust]

Jalen Ramsey is Odell Beckham's toughest matchup yet

 

[Faust]

Odell Beckham Jr. is back ... and better than ever?

 

[starks]

*crickets*

I am worried. He is sitting in my flex at the moment and thinking I am going to bench him for Gio until I see something. Of course, something will probably come in the way of 150/2 but Eli looks completely cooked with the way he is dinking and dunking the ball down the field. I don't have time to watch film or anything like that...what is the main issue here? Double teams? Offensive philosophy? It can't be game flow because they have been trailing all year. 

 

[need2know]

*crickets*

I am worried. He is sitting in my flex at the moment and thinking I am going to bench him for Gio until I see something. Of course, something will probably come in the way of 150/2 but Eli looks completely cooked with the way he is dinking and dunking the ball down the field. I don't have time to watch film or anything like that...what is the main issue here? Double teams? Offensive philosophy? It can't be game flow because they have been trailing all year. 

he had a 100 yard game week one.  offensive line gave eli no time last game.  you are crazy to bench him

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

*crickets*

I am worried. He is sitting in my flex at the moment and thinking I am going to bench him for Gio until I see something. Of course, something will probably come in the way of 150/2 but Eli looks completely cooked with the way he is dinking and dunking the ball down the field. I don't have time to watch film or anything like that...what is the main issue here? Double teams? Offensive philosophy? It can't be game flow because they have been trailing all year. 

Dude, you can’t bench OBJ for Bernard. C’mon man!!

 

[starks]

he had a 100 yard game week one.  offensive line gave eli no time last game.  you are crazy to bench him

Dude, you can’t bench OBJ for Bernard. C’mon man!!

*slowly walking away from ledge* 

 

[ourmanflint]

You've got a $20 million dollar/year uber-talented receiver with a noodle armed QB and an oline that isn't in sync and just lost their starting center. They can't even pick up basic stunts. By the time the oline gets it together they might be 0-6. 

 

[Faust]

Odell Beckham Jr. says he can play better

 

[tombonneau]

*crickets*

I am worried. He is sitting in my flex at the moment and thinking I am going to bench him for Gio until I see something. Of course, something will probably come in the way of 150/2 but Eli looks completely cooked with the way he is dinking and dunking the ball down the field. I don't have time to watch film or anything like that...what is the main issue here? Double teams? Offensive philosophy? It can't be game flow because they have been trailing all year. 

He's on pace for 130/1500. So ......

 

[Leroy Hoard]

You've got a $20 million dollar/year uber-talented receiver with a noodle armed QB and an oline that isn't in sync and just lost their starting center. They can't even pick up basic stunts. By the time the oline gets it together they might be 0-6. 

Oh the positive side they will always be playing from behind?

 

[chad in Indy]

Oh the positive side they will always be playing from behind?

Seems Eli has missed him every game for wide open TDs where Eli moved on to his next read too early 

 

[Jello_Biafra]

Eli has no time to get rid of the ball. Hopefully the OL gels and offers some kind of protection for Eli. Until then, it's just easier for him to dump off to Barkley. I'm not worried about the catches and yards, I'm a bit concerned with the lack of TDs. 

 

[Faust]

Where are the touchdowns for Odell Beckham Jr.?

 

[Faust]

Odell Beckham: Giants 'need to play with some heart'

 

[ninogaggi]

I’m finalizing a deal in redraft to send Ryan/Cooper for OBJ.  Banking on a rebound from him as the season goes on 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I’m finalizing a deal in redraft to send Ryan/Cooper for OBJ.  Banking on a rebound from him as the season goes on 

A good bet.  OBJ has always been a slow starter.  This is actually the second most fantasy points he's ever had through the first month of the season, just a couple points off his career best.

And of course "slow starter" is relative, as OBJ's current PPG would have been good for WR3 last year.  There's just a bunch of high variance fakes up there right now who's PPG are inflated by one big game.  They will fade as the season goes on and OBJ won't.