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WR Tyreek Hill, MIA (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter amnesiac
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Milkman
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Hill may not have been there the entire time, it doesn't really say. Just that the childs not in the home at all now. Either way, it doesn't sound like a positive by any means. Cant imagine theyd remove a child without basis.
A little different in that his is a wide ranging investigation. Hunt had none and I don't think Elliot had much of an investigation. If he's cleared after a month plus investigation by multiple entities I don't compare that to those situations.
Also I don't really care a lot from a dynasty angle what the NFL does. If he's charged with a crime he might be out of the league for good. That's my top concern and secondary concern is the Chiefs just decide to not extend him. I don't much care about 6 games.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
I appreciate the first hand knowledge from somebody familiar with the process and implications.
The media has to cover everything and can't be expert in everything. Gell-Mann Amnesia might be applicable here in terms of trusting that the local news has this totally covered.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
I will explain one possibility I was exploring earlier, but not in as much detail. Sometimes I jump the gun on what I need to explain so please ask if this doesn't all make sense.
For my agency I have 45 days to investigate child abuse/neglect.
My first step is to see a child and talk with the parents of the child and alleged perpetrators. In the case of a fracture I instantly (within 1 hour) call Doctor's that specialize in child abuse. They tell me right then if the story is plausible, undetermined, or inflicted abuse.
Let me explore the case as if both parents acted appropriately regardless of if we didn't know what occurred.
I would talk with medical care teams, school, family members, other children. This may be a case where they had some kind of explanation, but both stories were not satisfactory to the child abuse specialists. I may allow the child to continue with the parents while I gather evidence and make the above mentioned interviews.
I then talk with my supervisor and if we still can't explain an injury the answer is to remove the child form both parents because we cannot ensure safety with either person. This is where I say I cannot say it was T. Hill's fault and am not sure if he will get charged. Child services operate on preponderance of the evidence (51%). I cannot remember charges phrase but its at 75% roughly. Convictions are beyond a reasonable doubt (99-100%).
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I bet you never dreamed that going into social services would one day make you the most popular guy on a message board.
This I do agree with.
The fact they pulled him out of the home about 3 weeks after they started an investigation is not something I am ignoring or should be ignored. This is bad news. I just don't think it means he is guilty of anything, facing charges or a suspension. But it's a concern and has to be taken as extremely negative news.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
I actually saw this news story when it was first reported and was like for one time I can offer expertise that normally I cannot. Most of the time I just have opinions.
I am more than happy to try to explain the child service process so others can understand what is going on.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
I am mostly in agreement with your whole quote. The part I don't agree with is that I think that if Goodell or the NFL understands what this actually means this is bad for T. Hill's football season. This is worst case scenario from a child service's perspective.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
So what happens if neither Hill nor his wife will roll over on each other but CPS thinks one of them broke the kids arm?
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
I will add that it may get more scrutiny but that is from all sides. High profile cases like this are actually what my child services gives me a lot (To be more specific I have never done a professional athlete, just other counties and harder cases that require more scrutiny).
The scrutiny is from all sides and requires that you ensure there is no error in your work. Just because T. Hill is a football player would not make me lean towards removing his child. T. Hill has an attorney and if that was the case I would be in big trouble with just assuming the need to remove the child.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Not sure about that. There were a lot of allegations to start this thing off from her parents via the kids godparents. They were split up for a bit and she supposedly vented to them. I bet at this point CPS has a pretty good grasp of what happened but the question is whether they can prove it. If they think one of them broke the kids arm, its probably not the elementary school teacher theyre focusing on.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
Services would continue to be provided. If it were me I would recommend
1. Parenting Classes
2. Supervised visitation
3. Individual Counseling
After awhile you try a trial home visit, but that wouldn't be fore a minimum of 6 months.
ETA: error and I would only make these recommendations if the court was removing. Not based on the knowledge I know of the case which is virtually 0.
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Milkman
Footballguy
Well I obviously want the kid safe first and foremost but if they can't prove it and nobody's talking it's child services vs Tyreeks high priced lawyers on a case the police dropped. I see no charges coming and Tyreek playing football at some point this season.
Don't see the NFL banning him without charges. He's not even on the 2nd police report.
I think some validity to this especially if nothing new transpired from the initial March 5th report that was dropped until the new March 14th report.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
Child services only have to prove preponderance of the evidence. I like their chances on a fracture arm where they removed from the home of the parents. If I lost a case like this it would be my third (I earlier said I have lost 1 total case the court disagreed with, 1 case on appeal) out of several hundred. I don't care how good those attorneys are my case would be solid.
The line about not banning him without charges is where I couldn't disagree more. I believe if they contact the agency or has someone with knowledge of how they would operate the charges would not hold them back from a suspension.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah.....it feels like they could be covering their asses. No disrespect to child services......just has that feel.....
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
When there is someone this high profile there is no possible way I could try to cover my ###. Attorneys make my job extremely difficult because they dictate every interview I do except the child's. If Missouri doesn't operate like Indiana then perhaps they could have some newbie trying to investigate T. Hill's child, but I doubt this.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
To be honest as soon as the comments came out about T. Hill and these allegations I tried to buy everywhere.
I will now stay clear as I know what this means from a child services perspective.
Milkman
Footballguy
So you see the NFL banning Tyreek from the NFL if child services can't explain how his arm was broke but it seems suspicious?
I can def see a suspension if that is in fact the situation but I don't see banishment. It would be unprecedented.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
from what I've been told and the legal knowledge available to me for CHIPS cases, this was/is my approach as well.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
Yes, suspension I see likely based on the court's decision to remove the child. A JUDGE said T. Hill's child cannot live with him anymore. This is big news.
Banishment no. If they only have the child out of the home because of the scenario I posted then this is unlikely.
Milkman
Footballguy
Ok we are saying similar stuff then. I'm not sure this is even the case though. If it's the fiance and he's exonerated i can see a scenario where he isn't even suspended.
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smbkrypt24
Footballguy
It would take a confession at this point to overturn a judge ordering a child out of the home. Even at this I would be suspicious if I was the case manager.
I suppose T. Hill could get his fiancé to admit so he could play football.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
In my own uneducated speculation it seems like they think he probably broke the kids arm, but there isn't sufficient concrete evidence to press any actual criminal charges of it. I mean if his fiance isn't willing to give up untold millions to roll on him then what else could there even be? It's not like he left the nanny cam on.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Phantom Knight
Footballguy
Taking a stab at a possible explanation.
Though the state is different than that in which smbkrypt24 works, 43 is just before his 45 day investigation window closed. Perhaps there is a similar window with Hill's case...and assuming the evidence of neither guilt nor innocence was conclusive, then this action would provide more time to continue the investigation.
Milkman
Footballguy
Ok but if that's the case what could they possibly find they couldn't find in the first 43 days?
They likely aren't going to find anything new. So there likely won't be any charges. Now we wait for the NFL to make a decision based on the evidence the police had when they dropped the charges the first time. Or the second time when Tyreek isn't named in the report.
Hill could run pro track, he does have that kind of speed.
But, I doubt anything comes of this.
I;m adding this after seeing Dr.Dan's laughter.
Hill ran a sub10.00 100m and the second fastest HS 200 in history at 20.14. If he decided to give track a shot by the 2020 Olympics he would be in that 200m mix, I gurantee it.
But, I doubt anything comes of this.
I;m adding this after seeing Dr.Dan's laughter.
Hill ran a sub10.00 100m and the second fastest HS 200 in history at 20.14. If he decided to give track a shot by the 2020 Olympics he would be in that 200m mix, I gurantee it.
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voiceofunreason
Footballguy
He doesn’t need to get charged, if it looks like he broke his kids arm he’s in a world of trouble. But keep on the road you’re on.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
and your brain tells you that a child being removed from the home is a normal, preventative measure?
a child being removed from the home is worst case scenario.
i have no clue if hill did it (even if all signs point to yes), but the child getting pulled out means SOMETHING bad is going on, even if not the problem we're discussing now
Interseptopus
Footballguy
This is pretty simple.
People can wish this to not be a big deal because it helps their fantasy team, but at the end of the day it's a pretty serious thing. for the government to take your child away... that is a HUGE deal and it is not done lightly
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ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Awful news, and its social impact far outweighs anything related to fantasy football.
That said...
What would you give up for Hill right now given the current status of this story? I had the 3.4, 3.7, and 3.9 for Hill lined up in my system to offer, and I didnt hit the send button. Partially because I knew it would feel light to the Hill owner, and honestly partially because it felt like too much to give up right now for a player with this hanging over him. Odd, right? I know a lot of people will say that was light, and way under value for Hill and I get it, but I would not be shocked at all if he never played again. At least not in KC. They set some sort of precedent with Hunt last year, and what Hill *may* have done here is so, so, so much worse than what Hunt did, not to take away from the heinousness of what Hunt did - that was an atrocity as well.
So...what would you currently give up for Hill? If anything?
That said...
What would you give up for Hill right now given the current status of this story? I had the 3.4, 3.7, and 3.9 for Hill lined up in my system to offer, and I didnt hit the send button. Partially because I knew it would feel light to the Hill owner, and honestly partially because it felt like too much to give up right now for a player with this hanging over him. Odd, right? I know a lot of people will say that was light, and way under value for Hill and I get it, but I would not be shocked at all if he never played again. At least not in KC. They set some sort of precedent with Hunt last year, and what Hill *may* have done here is so, so, so much worse than what Hunt did, not to take away from the heinousness of what Hunt did - that was an atrocity as well.
So...what would you currently give up for Hill? If anything?
Aunt Jemima
Footballguy
Even if there was evidence pointing to a 90% chance that Hill never plays football again (I don’t believe this to be the case), I wouldn’t even give an offer of three .3rd round rookie picks an ounce of attention. Your gut is correct, don’t send that.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Agree. Even given the current circumstances, you still have to be at a mid 1st minimum imo.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I had recently traded Hill away and at the time I was fairly sure that nothing was going to come out of all of this, because so much time had passed, and that still may end up being the case. But right now I'm pretty happy I don't have to worry about it because there is NO OTHER WAY TO SPIN IT this is not a good thing. He may end up not missing one single game but his owners have to be stressing now and I did not want that.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I posted in the dynasty trade thread a few days ago. I admittedly sold him and Gurley at a discount, but as back to back champ in that league I had some "house money" and didn't want the stress of either player. I also wanted to shake things up a bit as that isn't a terribly active league.
I traded Gurley, Hill and the 2.12 for Aaron Jones, Diggs and the 1.07. I'll still be one of the top 3 teams in the league but not as prohibitive of a favorite as with a healthy Gurley and clean Hill.
I held onto Malcom Brown which could turn into sneaky hold.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
People can stick their head in the sand if they wish but anyone that doesn't think a guy with anger issues that make him capable of punching and choking out a woman carrying his child couldn't get so mad to lose control and break his kid's arm (even if not completely intentional) are fooling themselves.
Obviously I have no idea whether he did anything or not but this tends to show that child services at least suspects he may have. Hopefully it was juts an accident because this kid will be robbed of a pretty nice life if Hill ends up going to jail or even missing an extended part of his career.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
The Kansas City Star reports Tyreek Hill's three-year-old son was "recently removed from the custody of Hill and the boy’s mother."
Per the Star, it "isn’t clear when the boy was removed, or who he is staying with now." The Star reports Hill and his fiancee, Crystal Espinal, have been "working through a family court process called a 'child in need of care' case." Two separate investigations into child abuse at Hill's home were opened across nine days in March. The second incident involved the alleged breaking of Hill's son's arm. Hill reported for the start of Chiefs voluntary workouts this week, but this is looking like a situation that will involve a lengthy suspension, outright release or both.
SOURCE: Kansas City Star
Per the Star, it "isn’t clear when the boy was removed, or who he is staying with now." The Star reports Hill and his fiancee, Crystal Espinal, have been "working through a family court process called a 'child in need of care' case." Two separate investigations into child abuse at Hill's home were opened across nine days in March. The second incident involved the alleged breaking of Hill's son's arm. Hill reported for the start of Chiefs voluntary workouts this week, but this is looking like a situation that will involve a lengthy suspension, outright release or both.
SOURCE: Kansas City Star
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Well, KC released Hunt with no regard to the magnitude or circumstances involved. Should we now expect them to do the same with Hill, or is child abuse not as egregious? Does Hill now get placed on the Commissioners Exempt list for an extended period while the investigation ensues?
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